@Foolio:
You just said you were hoping to catch a mafia knowing more than they should. Do you think think your question would somehow make them spill the beans? I'd think it would be obvious if you knew info others didn't, so you'd just keep it to yourself, right? Did you also consider that asking such questions could lead to a townie with a special role revealing more than they should, and risk giving themselves away? It's awesome to ask questions that could catch a liar off guard, but it probably needs to be more subtle or clever, otherwise it comes off suspicious. At least to me it did.
I'm not so sure that it would be obvious if you know something more than everyone else, perhaps especially to the person who knows too much. The only thing any of us is guaranteed to have beyond what we've seen in this thread is a PM from Shuhan, but we have no idea what everyone else's PM looks like. Plenty of ways for different amounts of information to get distributed in such a manner, and the mafia may not be aware of everything that makes their PMs special, even after a thorough comparison between each other.
But yeah, you're totally right that I was being ridiculously unsubtle on the second time that I asked you about the chosen numbers. I was simply trying to prompt you to respond because you had ignored me the first time. It was suspicious of me to do so, and there's not much that I can do about it now other than continue to be forthright with my answers.
I had not fully considered that there might be one or more town roles which could have been compromised this way, so… again, stupid me. Sorry for that. Hope I've cleared things up at least a little. Any other questions?
@kmohyudin:
As I read this post again, I feel it's a bit aggressive. I kinda stand by it, and hope you wouldn't take offense, but anyway, I apologize if you do, that's not my intention. That said…
I'm not offended by anything that's happening here. It's just a game, right?
@kmohyudin:
It also of course ends when 48 hrs are up. I don't think that's something that you can feint an excuse over, but go on…
What exactly am I feinting an excuse over regarding the length of the day? I told you that I wanted Kitsune to have a chance to participate before I became one of the reasons he got lynched. He was here to participate, so I let him. Had he never shown up, my vote would likely have stayed in place until we either lynched him or didn't lynch anyone by the end of the day.
@kmohyudin:
Okay, couple of things, when you say, "a lynch, no matter who, was better for town" and then follow it up with, "I never claimed that I would be willing to vote for just anyone", either this feels like a contradiction, or you are saying that you willing to do something that you know is bad for town? I know I am being overly pedantic, but at least at this point that's all I have dammit!
Never did I claim that I would be willing to vote for just anyone. I did say that I thought it would be best for us to try to get a lynch going on day 1, and that's why I was voting for people. Perhaps it would have been better for me to simply start voicing concerns instead of throwing my vote around. But I always planned to pull my vote back if I felt there was a good reason to do so, so I guess that I just didn't think of my vote as being so consequential, especially when there were less than four votes on a wagon that needs six.
@kmohyudin:
And then you say that, "In fact, I've been very clear on the fact that I would impede a vote if I thought there was good reason for it.", it may be a memory lapse, but I never got this feeling from your posts. Can you show when you were "very clear" on this?
Yes, I can show you, but not in this reply (since that'll take a lot of tabbing and copypasta). Give me a little bit and I'll make another reply quoting myself some. Or, you know, you could do what I've been doing and just go back and read previous posts yourself. But I'll do it, just give me a sec.
@kmohyudin:
I will say this, you might be over eager, and you might be inexperienced. But, I would not say you are a weak townie. This question is just stupid though, scumhunting is just that, hunting for anything that feels scummy. And I pointed out what feels scummy to me, and gave you a fair chance to defend. You did say that you would be "happy to do that", didn't you?
But, my biggest problem is, you didn't really respond to my question and instead threw either subtle excuses, or just try to divert by instead throwing the blame on me. If you want to address that, the floor is all yours.
I don't think there's anyone who'd really believe you when you say that a newbie isn't a prime target for being a weak townie. I certainly don't. I don't think Foolio would agree that all of my contributions have been particularly good for the town.
And, the craziest part about this exchange is that I have answered your questions, repeatedly so. The same questions, over and over. I am not Kitsune's scumbuddy, but I'm really at a loss for something I could say that would prove it to you. You'll just have to follow your gut, I suppose.
There was no diverting blame in my response to you, kmohyudin. I simply see your continued focus on me as what it is, a repeated attempt to make me explain myself (especially when I've been extremely forthright about my thinking, even to the point of being stupidly unsubtle) and cast my playstyle in a bad light. That seems scummy to me, especially when I'm so obviously an easy target. You're on the top of my list right now.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Here are several posts, each of which should have made it clear that my goal wasn't the lynch itself on day 1, but the discussion leading up to it whether it happened or not:
@Kirbycide:
That all makes a lot of sense, but without the risk of a lynching, what reason do people have to be active on day 1?
@Kirbycide:
The only thing I care about right now is that we try to work together to get a lynch on day 1. Because as I've said before, I think that will give town the most information for us to use on day 2.
@Kirbycide:
I think that, unless and until the discussion gets so frenetic that it's hard to keep track of all the threads, more activity will always be more favorable for town.
@Kirbycide:
I can see how it's coming across that way, but like I said, I just think it'd be best for us to get a lynch today if we can. Even a random lynch is probably better than no lynch, though I'll reserve the right to unvote if I'm convinced that the strongest wagon is going for a townie.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
We get more information than just the flip. We get to see how everyone was talking about it as it happened, and we get a chance to see how the wagons formed.
If, at the end of the day, we can't reach a consensus on who to lynch, then what's done is done. I really think that the best thing is for us all to discuss the option of lynching today rather than waiting until tomorrow.
@Kirbycide:
And all of that assumes that we are lynching at random, which I do not intend to do myself. I'm already starting to build up some suspicions of others, but I'm leaving my vote on Kitsune Inferno for now because I do think it's a problem that he hasn't replied to anyone yet. Point being, if we are planning to lynch someone that I find fairly suspicious today, I'm on board. But I will unvote if I'm convinced that the wagon is going for someone I think is innocent.
@Kirbycide:
And, again, I have already said that if we don't lynch today, then so be it. Even I will do what I can to prevent it if I'm convinced that the person we are targeting is innocent.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Now that I've thought about it some more, I do think that there is some merit to not lynching today:
If we are guaranteed only one kill between now and tomorrow, it might be a little easier to figure out what exactly the chosen numbers meant. Having only one variable to account for rather than two could be a good thing, though I'm still not a big fan of letting the scum make the first move.
@Kirbycide:
If there are no benefits to lynching today, then it seems to me like we'll collectively agree to stop accusing and building wagons for the rest of the day… So, if we settle on a no lynch for today, we not only ensure a higher mafia kill to town kill ratio, but we also make it so that there is little reason to continue discussing it, and thus we lose out on information for tomorrow, too.
Again, it's not that I'm dead set on lynching someone today, I just think that the information we get out of pursuing a lynch together is much more valuable than the information we get from deciding that we won't.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
The question is, do we want the information from a collectively pursued lynch on day 1 in addition to that, or do we not?
In all the quotes, I've taken the liberty to provide only what's relevant to your question, kmohyudin. I may have added ellipses in some places so that my other sentences didn't clutter it up.
That makes ten posts (including new post merges) where I showed that what I cared most about was the discussion that pursuing a lynch would create, and that I would reserve the right to unvote if I felt it was necessary.
So. Anything else I can do for you?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh, and every single one of those posts are from before Kitsune showed up.