Usopp is a mugiwara! Forever!!

[Elric]

@Octogon:

**Of course he's gotten braver.

Usopp is the most courageous out of the SH. He actually has to put aside his fear (whiich is bigger than the other SH's) to be able to do anyting. That true courage.**

he's got a point there.The bravery and determination of the common shonen hero, admired by young audiences worldwide is actually a special kind of mental disorder.

It may seem very desirable to be in that death-defying state
but what at first glance seems to be an exceptionally strong willed individual, looked upon from a neurochemical point of view, turns out to be a human imprisoned by his desires and actually completely bare of any free will.

The most common and obvious example for this condition is addiction to adrenaline.

So for characters like zoro and luffy things like courage and fear don't even exist, they simply don't have a choice but someone like Usopp everytime anew has to consciously decide to take life threatening risks and overcome his fear and therefore shows true courage.

[Deicide]

He is becoming braver, yes. I point to a single, undeniable fact. Remember when Jabura was about to attack? He said that he would not run away, he would stand and fight. And he fought. He lost, but fought.

Since the EL raid began, he seemed a lot braver to me. He still avoids to be in the center of conflict and tries to use subterfuge and tricks to gain the upper hand (Usopp fighting style!), but he seemed less concerned about his own safety during this arc.

[Taleran]

@Urokråke:

Did I stutter?

Sticks and stones, you know.

Basically, if somebody thinks my posts are stupid, I genuinely want to know. It's nice to have one's opinions challenged, because it helps you think them over. And even change them, in case they actually are stupid.

+respect points to you

and yeah I think Usopp has gotten a tad braver but nothing to the phenomenal level some people put him at, finding a way to win all his fights =/= Brave probably the only bravery enduced fight was the one vs. Chu

[Aldrich]

@Urokråke:

Did I stutter?

Sticks and stones, you know.

Basically, if somebody thinks my posts are stupid, I genuinely want to know. It's nice to have one's opinions challenged, because it helps you think them over. And even change them, in case they actually are stupid.

That's a perfectly respectable opinion you have here. You basically like Usopp for all the reason I came to hate him, because he's a mediocre character whose only role in the manga is to take care of the smallest, most insignificant tasks, one petty little step at a time, all the while acting as a narrative tool for every other crewmembers to shine, even the low tiers like Chopper and Nami.

If some people like to identify with the losers and perpetual victims, who am I to judge. I just find it hard to understand, as I personaly find this weakness embodied by Usopp artificial, forced and out of place, but then again, to each his own.

[Polygon]

**Personally, I don't see why people are so dissapointed with Usopp. Yes, he didn't have a fight during EL, but he has had positive character development in just about every other way.

Just as Luffy would lose to Zoro in a swordfight, or against sanji in a legs'only battle, he would lose to Usopp at a lon enough range.

Is Usopp weak? No. However, he ain't a god in close-combat either.**

@Stephen:

Sanji: …as long as you're still alive.
Everyone has things they can and cannot do.
Look outside, you two.

**People, this is where Usopp starts to become the man he will one day become. This is where he realizes he is not a weak fight, but a sniper. This is where he remembers that he is not, and never will be, a Luffy, Zoro, Sanji or anyone else. From this moment on is when Usopp stopped being a pansy who alays failed and began to become a Sniper with incredible skill.

And assuming Gyojin island is next. The stronger version of Chuu is waiting. **

[Yoska]

@Aldrich:

If some people like to identify with the losers and perpetual victims, who am I to judge.

Yeah, while everybody on it's own, I like Usopp the best because I simply find him the best written and designed character in the series. It's really doesn't have anything to do with identifing. I like Ener a lot too. But I don't think myself as a god.

[Aldrich]

What do you find so awesomely written about him? I'm serious, I'd like to know what people think is Usopp's appeal. Except the "he's a weak coward getting turned into a human mop by the lamest opponents".

[Malintex_Terek]

No, Usopp's not gotten braver. He's always been a rollercoaster when it comes to courage, that is, run away first then come back after a while and get stuff done. However, he's becoming steadily more cowardly in the long run when he should be braver. I mean, let's break it down.

1. Kuro- Usopp held his ground (at the least).
2. Arlong- lured away Chuu, feigned death but at the last minute stood up to him and won.
3. Little Garden- battled alongside Luffy against Mr.3 (peak).
4. Drum- nothing major.
5. Arabasta- got scared fighting Ms. Merrychristmas and Mr.4, tried to run away, nearly got killed, came back in the final round of the fight in part because they were talking smack about his friend.
6. Jaya- nothing major.
7. Skypiea- battled Satori with Sanji & Luffy; after getting friend by Ener, he and Sanji bravely stood up to him and Usopp even tanked him (peak).
8. Water 7- Usopp stood up to the Franky Family, even outmatched, and then to Luffy.
9. Enies Lobby- hid in Oimo's hair before rejoining the Straw Hats on the Bridge Tower, lost to Jyabs after becoming Zoro's bastich (I mean sword), ran to the roof and fired shots at Spandam, fell off the Tower of Justice Administration and needed to be carried, followed by a pep talk to Luffy from a safe distance away from Lucci.

…

There's a huge depreciation in Usopp's courage in Enies Lobby, even if one compares to the last arc W7. This is surprising considering the Sogeking persona is supposed to be braver than Usopp and he actually had to take off his mask before talking to Luffy.

It looks to me like Usopp as a fighter won't improve in Enies Lobby, but joekido the second (of all people) pointed out that characters who get "development" in one arc usually don't get fights. Usopp/Robin in Enies Lobby, Sanji/Usopp in Skypiea, Nami in Arlong Park, Sanji in Baratie and Vivi in Arabasta and Little Garden.

[Aldrich]

Sanji had a fight in Baratie and Skypiea (not one on one, but who cares) and Vivi actually took down two opponents in Alabasta, which is more than Usopp can say. Robin had the satisfaction to finish off Spandam. Nothing comparable to that long series of spanking concluded by some Marine shooting for 4 pages.

Also, I fail to see how Sanji and Usopp had "development" (whatever that means) in Skypiea.

[onemoment]

I'll just say probably. No way he's going go through this again.

Btw, did he really hide in the giants hair? I got the impression that he was just staying there after being left behind…his entire upper body was sticking out clear as day.

Sanji had a fight in Baratie and Skypiea (not one on one, but who cares) and Vivi actually took down two opponents in Alabasta, which is more than Usopp can say. Robin had the satisfaction to finish off Spandam. Nothing comparable to that long series of spanking concluded by some Marine shooting for 4 pages.

Also, I fail to see how Sanji and Usopp had "development" (whatever that means) in Skypiea.

Who cares? Those weren't fights man, they were beatings. Sanji didn't necessarily lose, but he didn't win either. And anyone can beat a priest after tying them down. For Sanji's standard, those weren't legit victories. Sanji and Usopp were like brothers in the Skypiea arc, both fighting a hopelessly stronger opponent for the same goal. Not the Sanji is by any means weak, but Skypiea wasn't a glorious arc for Sanji either.

AAnd considering how much weaker the mr.7 pair is them the mr.4 pair, how is that "more then he can say?" Even if it was a 2-vs-2 match, it's still a victory for Usopp and Chopper. And who cares that Robin finished Spandam? Any of the SHs could have done that. It's ridiculous that Franky didn't in the first place.

Seriously man, you are biased as hell, trying to put Vivi and Robin (who would be above Usopp even without saying it…) ahead of Usopp in those arcs.

And the sniping scene, the more I think about it--is underrated. I'll just leave it at that, but any other SH would have failed trying to do what Usopp did on that bridge. Failed like Usopp vs. Jyabura. Think about it it, considering that Robin is surrounded by guys with guns, who obviously would have shot her.

[Elric]

he can't even hide properly.he probably didn't know if he was more afraid of the marines or the giant^^

[onemoment]

You know, after people saying "what Usopp been throughout the Water 7/Enies Lobby arc"–is it really that long?

Ussop had his fight with Luffy--which I'm pretty sure the point was "don't underestimate Usopp." If we start the "clock" again from after that fight, it's not that long.

[Aldrich]

This post is deleted!

[Elric]

@onemoment:

You know, …

would you mind telling me when usopp said he was using dials with kabuto?

[Refii]

This post is deleted!

[Aldrich]

This post is deleted!

[bevin]

This post is deleted!

[Aldrich]

This post is deleted!

[bevin]

This post is deleted!

[Tsuchirinhon]

@Malintex_Terek:

'Badass Ussop Picture'

You shoud take some extra time and make a snazzy wallpaper with that image & idea.

Hell, I'd slap that thing right up on my desktop.

[onemoment]

@Elric:

would you mind telling me when usopp said he was using dials with kabuto?

Right before he used the firebird star, he said in front of everyone that Kabuto was enhanced by dials.

And now that I think of it, what's the difference between a lead character and a supporting character here? If only Luffy had beaten Lucci and the others didn't beat their CP9, all would have failed. If Sanji didn't beat Jyabura, Ussop and Nami would be dead, which means that they all wouldn't be able to escape Enies Loby. If even Nami had failed to KO Calipha, then Calipha could had used her devil fruit power to weaken one of the other SHs…who unlike Nami rely on their strength to win battles.

The Galley-La here seem to be the only supporting characters, in the end they beat marine soldiers and a few low-tier bosses. True, without their efforts the SHs would have lost, but they still did some small time things.

But wait, isn't that the same as what Usopp did by shooting those marines? Almost, but not quite. The difference here is that Usopp's act was directly linked to their main mission--saving Robin. Not only that, but, if Usopp hadn't sniped these marines from a distance, how could any of the other SHs had reached them? Leaving out the fact that most of the SHs (sans Franky, but I'll get to him later) were no where near the area, if any of the SHs had approached Spandam and those marines, then Spandam would have just put a gun to Robins head. You know he'd do it, he's tried to kill Robin twice so far.

Now, how could any of the other SHs had snuck up on those marines like Usopp did? They couldn't approach from the sides or the back, it would be impossible without Usopp tools. If Franky had approached them alone, then he would have failed...Franky's no speedster after all, nor is he a sniper.

So, after a little thought, I'm not disapointed with Usopp's mere 4 pages of glory--it works out pretty were actually. I mean, how could you stretch this scene for a chapter anyway? Usopp solidified his role as a sniper with that scene, and successfully did something that no one in his crew could do.

Hell, I'm looking forward to Usopp's future fights. The enemies are just going to keep getting stronger after all, and Ussop's already at least has a few "destined fights" coming up.

[Aldrich]

@onemoment:

Right before he used the firebird star, he said in front of everyone that Kabuto was enhanced by dials.

I'm afraid he never said such a thing.

[Tsuchirinhon]

@onemoment:

If even Nami had failed to KO Calipha, then Calipha could had used her devil fruit power to weaken one of the other SHs…who unlike Nami rely on their strength to win battles.

Moreover, didn't Calipha possess the key to unlock Zoro & Usopp's handcuffs? Without that, they wouldn't have been able to last against the double onslaught of Kaku and Jyabura.

[onemoment]

@Aldrich:

I'm afraid he never said such a thing.

checks manga Well crap. I guess that's the secret of Kabuto then. Come to think of it, when did he say it was enhanced by dials?

Oh well, the rest of my post is pretty solid.

[Elric]

@onemoment:

Right before he used the firebird star, he said in front of everyone that Kabuto was enhanced by dials.

I couldn't find anything like that at the two msn groups so i can continue to make fun of those who didn't get that usopp was just goint to explain how he could hit spandam from that far away and there is no other secret goint to be revealed except secret wishful thinking^^ smugalert

btw:

stephen's script:

Luffy: I know who Robin's enemy is!
Soge King.

Soge King: Hmm?

• Page 198 -

Luffy: I want you
to blow up that flag.

Soge King: Roger!!

Spandam: Huh?

Soge King: My new weapon, the giant peashooter.
I call it "Kabuto."
Look at this firepower!!!
KILLER MOVE…
"FIREBIRD STAR"!!!

[Aldrich]

Well it's always the same thing, he supposedly did something only he could do and was vital to Robin's rescue. I personaly think that even without him Robin would have been saved, and that his act of slightly delaying Robin's passing through the final gate of the bridge was more symbolical than anything.

Franky was the one who truly saved her, twice, and I'm almost certain he'd have been able to save her even if Spandam boarded the evacuation ship. He was a few seconds away from them. He could have gotten to the ship with a Coup de Vent in case it already left, and we all saw how easily he dispatched the Marine grunts and Spandam.

[Elric]

@onemoment:

Come to think of it, when did he say it was enhanced by dials?

never?

16 characters

[Yoska]

@Terek:

6. Jaya- nothing major.

Agree with your post but a funny little thing I would like to note regarding Jaya and bravery: while seeing a spider scared a shit out of Sanji, Usopp just took the spider into his own hands and was like "what?".

And when Usopp didn't get to fight Jabra, it's was one of the only real character developement moments in the whole arc. It was really well played move by Oda to put him against Jabra. Bravo.
@Al:

What do you find so awesomely written about him? I'm serious, I'd like to know what people think is Usopp's appeal. Except the "he's a weak coward getting turned into a human mop by the lamest opponents".

I think these has been said like a billion time (I can exaggerate too ). But okey. Going by standards of world literary… a quick, vague and boring synopsis of how is Usupp well written: Usopp has human psychology written all over him and he has multiple layers (like in an onion!). Usopp also has diversity (an artist and a story teller --> Usopp is Oda) and his has variety of purposes in the story instead of being there only for one reason.

Ah, actually, I would be more interested to hear who you think is the best written of Straw Hats and why? I have never heard of it.

[onemoment]

@Aldrich:

Well it's always the same thing, he supposedly did something only he could do and was vital to Robin's rescue. I personaly think that even without him Robin would have been saved, and that his act of slightly delaying Robin's passing through the final gate of the bridge was more symbolical than anything.

Franky was the one who truly saved her, twice, and I'm almost certain he'd have been able to save her even if Spandam boarded the evacuation ship. He was a few seconds away from them. He could have gotten to the ship with a Coup de Vent in case it already left, and we all saw how easily he dispatched the Marine grunts and Spandam.

Symbolic of what? And he didn't delay their passing, he stopped it. You can't get very far with firecrackers blowing up in your face.

Hey, people make the same arguements for other characters, like Sanji with Calipha or those VAs, so why not Usopp? Everyone makes all the excuses in the world when Sanji fights a women and loses (and rightfully so!) yet Usopp gets no slack after being a sniper he fights a strong close-range fighter? I swear, I'm really looking forward to (I may regret saying this) the SHs meeting a strong long-range enemy that only a sniper can face (Van Auger?).

Besides, Robin with her seastone cuffs was helpless against any of the marines, and we've seen several times that when scared or desparate that Spandam has tried to kill Robin. Franky would have punched the few closest marines to him first. Spandam, knowing of Franky's strength, would have grabbed Robin and used her as a shield while either pointing a gun to her head or throwing Funkfried at him. Either way, Franky can't attack, his attacks don't have the speed or accuracy to hit Spandam without the risk of hitting Robin as well.

Really, the more I look at it, only Usopp could have done this and suceeded. That's kind of the point of the Enies Lobby arc during the Tower of Justice, each SHs tried to do something outside their ability and failed (Sanji vs. Calipha, Nami vs. Kumadori, Luffy trying to find Robin, Zoro with directions, and Usopp vs. Jyabura), yet when they found something within their abilites, they succeeded.

Without Usopp's "supporting" role, all the other SHs role's wouldn't be able to stand on their own. It's more of a team effort then "lead and supporting characters." If they lost Robin, then Zoro, Sanji, and Luffy fights would be a struggle for nothing. The CP9 would, in essence all win if Usopp had failed (and again, Usopp would have failed if the SHs had failed). Luffy sure as hell wouldn't have fought against Lucci like he did if he knew that Robin was long gone. So you see, it's like all the SHs are cogs in a machine, they can't work without each other. I think that's been a major point of this arc and the series in general.

Each member is worthless without the support of the other members.

---

Enies Lobby showed us what Usopp can do outside of fighting, just as Skypiea showed us what Sanji can do outside of fighting–strong tactical moves. Given, this is something we've seen in Alabasta, but he also showed his his conviction and will of sacrifice his body by taking Enel's attack.

Water 7 was what showed us Usopp's potential inside of battle. With his modest ammo and more advanced ammo, he gave Luffy--the potential strongest man in One Piece-- a close fight until the very end, while injured. And no, Luffy didn't quite hold back, or else he wouldn't use moves like bazooka and gatling on him. It's not to unrealistic to believe that he can do something like what he showed us back then, but against an another opponent instead. The point of that scene was to not underestimate Usopp--he's an underdog.

[Tsuchirinhon]

Usopp is realistic, in the fact that he generally loses quite frequently. Many top-notch martial artists do not begin their career soaring upon winning streaks, wings spread wide and a gleam of sunlight peaking over the horizon.

Moreover, Usopp constantly defeats opponents that are much stronger than he is. In a true battle, only victory matters. If you win, you win. Whining and crying isn't going to prevent your death. Therefore, no matter how badly you get stomped and flattened during the brawl, you are still the victor if you eventually trump your opponent. Simple as that.

[kabrumbs]

I dont know who said (lost the post), but saying that Ussop is like a low budget Batman is hilarious. And he can have already Robin… hilarious....

I would prefer if Namy didn't start to have real fights, and the same for Ussop, and even Chopper. It would be better if the 3 act together to do tasks different from fighting. This would be more aligned with Luffy`s speech to Arlong...

It would be so more cool if Nami or Ussop closed the gates, instead of Sanji. But....

Well, and for me: Ussop is unique.
He is the 0 kelvin of power, guts and coolness. He is the relative scale man

[Malintex_Terek]

@Aldrich:

Sanji had a fight in Baratie and Skypiea (not one on one, but who cares) and Vivi actually took down two opponents in Alabasta, which is more than Usopp can say. Robin had the satisfaction to finish off Spandam. Nothing comparable to that long series of spanking concluded by some Marine shooting for 4 pages.

If we count Usopp v. Jyabura as a fight, I'd also call Sanji v. Pearl as one too, but the outcome was the same; both Sanji and Usopp had their arses handed to 'em. Add that to Sanji losing to Gin even though Gin was trying to go easy on Sanji (in hopes Sanji would surrender), and it looks like Sanji, despite Zeff's reputation, was actually a pretty pitiful fighter.

However, during Baratie and in light of Sanji's losses, he still showed his "resolve/conviction", which is essential development for his character (which has sense vanished from his person).

Then, we've got Sanji v. Califa where Sanji lost but rekindled some of his old conviction.

Regarding Vivi, I'm not going to call her defeat of Mr.7 or Ms. Fathersday "real" fights; she beat 'em with a fairly cheap shot and their defeat didn't improve her fighting abilities nor did they change her character in the slightest. Like the bounty hunters at Whisky Peak, they were simply an obstacle, a spiked wall if you will that needed to be bashed down.

Robin finishing off Spandam…well, Spandam's been the punching bag for many a person in this chapter; Sogeking, Franky, and Robin have all thrashed him pretty soundly, so I won't call that a "real" fight.

@Aldrich:

Also, I fail to see how Sanji and Usopp had "development" (whatever that means) in Skypiea.

During Skypiea, both Usopp and Sanji got their arses kicked again, but Sanji (like in W7) showed some resolve by standing up and taking Ener's lightning to protect Nami and Usopp. Usopp likewise did something almost as daring by tanking Ener in spite of his terror to recover Sanji.

[Aldrich]

@Malintex_Terek:

If we count Usopp v. Jyabura as a fight, I'd also call Sanji v. Pearl as one too, but the outcome was the same; both Sanji and Usopp had their arses handed to 'em. Add that to Sanji losing to Gin even though Gin was trying to go easy on Sanji (in hopes Sanji would surrender), and it looks like Sanji, despite Zeff's reputation, was actually a pretty pitiful fighter.

However, during Baratie and in light of Sanji's losses, he still showed his "resolve/conviction", which is essential development for his character (which has sense vanished from his person).

Then, we've got Sanji v. Califa where Sanji lost but rekindled some of his old conviction.

I agree with that, but I don't understand how it backs up your (actually Joekido's) point. You're (he's) saying characters who got "development" in an arc usually don't fight, or are beaten up and look bad in said fights, but show resolve or whatever. But it contradicts your point about Usopp actually being less brave in EL than before. So basically what we have with this character is:

-extremely poor fighting skills
-a lack of resolve facing adversity (Jyabura and Kaku debacle)

I fail to see how any of that could be considered as positive development. Except if, of course, you consider he is the token good for nothing character who musn't do anything too noticeable because it's his charm. Then yes, that's good development. Great development actually.

Regarding Vivi, I'm not going to call her defeat of Mr.7 or Ms. Fathersday "real" fights; she beat 'em with a fairly cheap shot and their defeat didn't improve her fighting abilities nor did they change her character in the slightest. Like the bounty hunters at Whisky Peak, they were simply an obstacle, a spiked wall if you will that needed to be bashed down.

Fair enough. I still think the characters of Vivi and Usopp are comparable in the respective roles they played during the Baroque Works and World Government saga; act as psychological and physical punching balls for the most part, before showing up at the very end, taking advantage of the real hard work of others… And failing to do anything really significant for shonen standards. If we're coherent Usopp should end up in a cover story taking a hot bath during the next major arcs.

Robin finishing off Spandam…well, Spandam's been the punching bag for many a person in this chapter; Sogeking, Franky, and Robin have all thrashed him pretty soundly, so I won't call that a "real" fight.

She still was the one who did the most significant damage until proven otherwise, which is logical as she was the one who suffered the most from Spandam's antics. She also wrecked havoc among Captains during the Bridge of Hesitation battle. I'm not one who think Usopp/Sogeking should necessarly have had a fight, but seeing him struggle to hit Captains who get ko'd by Kokoro was a little exaggerate.

Of course everything I say would be null and void if in the next chapters we see Spandamn get up relatively unscathed like the resilient cockroach he is.

[onemoment]

On Usopp hiting the captain's, since when they were introduced none of the captains were going down that fast, it was either have the captains no-sell Usopp's ammo or dodge it. Since the captain's turned out pretty weak, there was no way they were going to block Usopp's attacks like Mr.1 or Arlong did.

As for postive development…if you look, it's there.

[odlam]

This arc had alot of Ussopp period. If your looking to bash him, there's plenty there. If your looking to praise him, there's plenty there.

Your going to get what your looking for and see what want depending on the glasses your looking through.

[Pants-eater]

This arc had alot of Ussopp period. If your looking to bash him, there's plenty there. If your looking to praise him, there's plenty there.

Your going to get what your looking for and see what want depending on the glasses your looking through.

You get a cookie. Now we have to wait for someone to come and say there was nothing good for him.

[ChopChopCannon]

Without Usopp, One Piece just wouldn't be the same. The same goes for every other crew member.

Now can we please stop arguing and bitching like little girls?

[Urokråke]

@Aldrich:

That's a perfectly respectable opinion you have here. You basically like Usopp for all the reason I came to hate him, because he's a mediocre character whose only role in the manga is to take care of the smallest, most insignificant tasks, one petty little step at a time, all the while acting as a narrative tool for every other crewmembers to shine, even the low tiers like Chopper and Nami.

If some people like to identify with the losers and perpetual victims, who am I to judge. I just find it hard to understand, as I personaly find this weakness embodied by Usopp artificial, forced and out of place, but then again, to each his own.

Ouch! :wassat:

I see your point, but I think you're wrong. Because Usopp can't win against superhumans in hand to hand combat, it doesn't make him a looser. He's resourceful, creative, smart, kind and even brave. I think of him as a sort of crossover between Baron Von Munchausen and Leonardo Da Vinci.

Think about it, Usopp is nearly invincible compared to the average joe in the one piece world. It's just that there are people who are ridiculously powerful, and who could have Usopp for lunch. Compared him to a rookie lightweight boxer, he's probably able to kick the ass of most people in his whole town. But a pro heavyweight or even welterweight would wipe the floor with him in all likelyhood. Does that mean the lightweight is a looser?

But I agree than in shonen terms, he's sort of a looser that gets kicked around alot, perhaps it even gets too boring and repetive sometimes.

[Daisuke CP9]

I agree with Urok, that's what I like about Usopp, he doesn't need super abilities to be simply awesome. But yeah, in shounen terms, being kicked around too much gets repetetive, and before any more trolls around this thread do any more Usopp bashing, lets hope for Usopp-basher's damn sake he eats a Devil Fruit so people like Aldrich would stop bitching Usopp about being mediocre or weak or a pansy because if I remember correctly, only 4kids thinks of him that way.

[Tsuchirinhon]

@ChopChopCannon:

Now can we please stop arguing and bitching like little girls?

Well, this is an Usopp thread, so any Usopp discussion should be allowed. People are going to disagree - that's the consequence of a debate. S'not a bad thing.

[Aldrich]

@Urokråke:

Think about it, Usopp is nearly invincible compared to the average joe in the one piece world. It's just that there are people who are ridiculously powerful, and who could have Usopp for lunch.

Two words. Franky Family.

[ChopChopCannon]

@Cyringohn:

Well, this is an Usopp thread, so any Usopp discussion should be allowed. People are going to disagree - that's the consequence of a debate. S'not a bad thing.

United we conquer.
Divided we fall.

Arguing is like kicking Jesus in the balls. It feels great, but it won't get you anywhere good.

[onemoment]

@Aldrich:

Two words. Franky Family.

Oh really? Let's think of it this way…

Usopp blows up the door to Franky Family and demands to have the moeny back. He is surrounded. Naturally, the Family grabs him and proceeds to beat him. Usopp cannot fight this way.

A few moments later, Luffy and co. come in and easily beat down the Franky Family--with little problem at all.

And later that night, Usopp while still injured fights an otherwise normal Luffy to a standstill for a while. In fact, this fight lasts twice as long as the fight with Fanky family did. Though, Usopp takes two punches to go down, he still counters a gatling and bazooka attack. Hell, he took a GG pistol a hell of a lot better then most people did--especially pre-grandline.

What I'm saying here is, there's an inconsistancy. Usopp gets beaten by the Franky Family, the Franky Family is easily beaten by Luffy and the others, and then a few hours later--Usopp and Luffy fight. Usopp still loses, but he does a hell of a lot better then the entire Franky Family did.

What does this mean? Well, I'd just stop bringing up "he got owned by the Franky Family," cause Usopp wasn't fighting smart there. It'd be like Sanji going in and challenging a bunch of ladies to a boxing match, or Luffy going in and demanding a game of Othello. It's not that big a deal.

---

Usopp is the underdog. And he's doing role his just beautifully right now. He doesn't always win, but when he fights, it's almost always awesome. Usopp vs. Chuu was on par with any match in Arlong park–though honestly I think Sanji got the best one.

Usopp/Chopper vs. the Mr.4 pair was epic. Incredibly though, it was just barely beat out by Zoro's fight and completely beat out by Luffy's finishing move (not the whole fight).

And Usopp vs. Luffy...was the best fight in Water 7..if you want to separate it from Enies Lobby.

Really, the main reason why people want an Usopp fight so much is that unlike Nami or some of the other SHs--Usopp always delivers. When he fights, that is. Right now, he's just someone who made a contribution in the Enies Lobby arc.

[taboo]

Arguing is like kicking Jesus in the balls. It feels great, but it won't get you anywhere good.

Please don't talk like that here.

Think about it, Usopp is nearly invincible compared to the average joe in the one piece world. It's just that there are people who are ridiculously powerful, and who could have Usopp for lunch. Compared him to a rookie lightweight boxer, he's probably able to kick the ass of most people in his whole town. But a pro heavyweight or even welterweight would wipe the floor with him in all likelyhood. Does that mean the lightweight is a looser?

That's not a very good analogy. You forget that this arc is all about showing off Usopp's true skills, not as a melee style fighter but as a long distance sniper.

[Gizmo]

@onemoment:

Really, the main reason why people want an Usopp fight so much is that unlike Nami or some of the other SHs–Usopp always delivers. When he fights, that is. Right now, he's just someone who made a contribution in the Enies Lobby arc.

QFT!!!! Usopp always delivers in his fights. His fights are always the best, second to Luffy's fights. I cannot wait for Usopp to get into another fight again!

The only person he really beat by himself was Chuu right? Well that was because Chuu is a complete idiot. If he wasn't so stupid, and if Usopp didnt use his cleverness, he never would have won. Usopp really didnt use his most powerful weapon in his fought against Jaybura:his mind. He even fell for that stupid lie. Then again Usopp is not using his head as much lately. Next arc he;ll use the combo of sniping and cleverness to show his bad self.

[mrkaizoku]

Ussop takes more beatings than any of the other characters. The only character that comes close is Zoro. Ussop at least has super human stamina.

[Aldrich]

@onemoment:

Oh really? Let's think of it this way…

Usopp blows up the door to Franky Family and demands to have the moeny back. He is surrounded. Naturally, the Family grabs him and proceeds to beat him. Usopp cannot fight this way.

Yes, he can. He should, at least, as he'll have to fight his way out of worse situations in the future. They're on the Grandline ffs. What worth does he have if he can't hold his own against a bunch of ship dismantlers with down syndrome?

And stop talking about the Luffy fight as if it meant anything. He's fighting a FRIEND. Who, even if he looked determined, wasn't going to come at him with the intent to kill. As shown by him not using Gear, while he probably knew how to use it then.

What I'm saying here is, there's an inconsistancy. Usopp gets beaten by the Franky Family, the Franky Family is easily beaten by Luffy and the others, and then a few hours later–Usopp and Luffy fight. Usopp still loses, but he does a hell of a lot better then the entire Franky Family did.

Yeah I'm sure Usopp would have done great if he have had to fight really angried Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Chopper all at once. Stop grasping at straws seriously.

What does this mean? Well, I'd just stop bringing up "he got owned by the Franky Family," cause Usopp wasn't fighting smart there. It'd be like Sanji going in and challenging a bunch of ladies to a boxing match, or Luffy going in and demanding a game of Othello. It's not that big a deal.

You're just making up excuses. Basically your argument is; "why do you say he sucks at fighting, he wasn't fighting smart here!!!!" which is exactly why I'm saying he sucks: he doesn't fight smart. With his skills, he actually fight like a fucking moron. Except against his BEST FRIEND 4LIFE of course, but who gives a shit. He's not the one who's going to go at him with the intent to rip his intestines off during the next arcs.

Usopp is the underdog. And he's doing role his just beautifully right now. He doesn't always win, but when he fights, it's almost always awesome. Usopp vs. Chuu was on par with any match in Arlong park–though honestly I think Sanji got the best one

Again, the worth of an underdog character is to see how he manages to hold his own against supposedly ridiculously superior opponent while not having all the advantages some other characters have. Being a perpetual underdog is pathetic, as he stays the guy nobody awaits anything from, and instead of proving this wrong, he confirms it: he's worth nothing, or at least very little, but hey, he has friends to protect him!!!!

I'll probably get ripped apart by tolerant One Piece fans saying that, but go read what Kishimoto does to see brilliantly written underdog characters; Lee and Shikamaru blow Usopp out of the water in that department. That's probably the only part Naruto does better than One Piece though.

Usopp/Chopper vs. the Mr.4 pair was epic. Incredibly though, it was just barely beat out by Zoro's fight and completely beat out by Luffy's finishing move (not the whole fight).

That's a matter of tastes of course, but really to enjoy this fight you've got to be a bit of a sadist; he fled like a bitch, with the satisfaction to see him change his mind destroyed by having him wasted in the most ridiculous fashion by one of the most retardedly designed character in creation. And it's been, what, 250 chapters he didn't have a fight now?

Really, the main reason why people want an Usopp fight so much is that unlike Nami or some of the other SHs–Usopp always delivers. When he fights, that is. Right now, he's just someone who made a contribution in the Enies Lobby arc.

No, that's because generally people hate a dead weight. Though I'm surprised, Arlong Park introduced me to people who think doing nothing, having to be helped every time you face a difficulty to overcome and generally behaving like a downright worthless luggage is the epithome of awesomeness. To each his own I guess.

[bedrock]

Aldrich: As much as I enjoy most of your posts I´m surprised that you argue extremly one-dimensional in this thread: "Only the muscle counts, who has not the build of Zoro / Luffy is dead weight …" Are you serious? That would be even more boring than the average shitty shonen manga:sad:

Anyhow, it might be noted elsewhere in this thread, but I cannot help smiling that Ussop at the moment IS "Captain Ussop" giving the homeless mugiwara-crew a ride, saving their sorry asses ...

So, every lie becomes true eventually ...

[kljs]

yeah, aldrich has been arguing that Usopp needs to be more worth it to be a mugiwara….....

I agree...... in fact, I didn't think highly of Usopp from the beginning in the first place..... he was like.... ok, he is a coward and the only thing he was good at is being a sniper using a slingshot instead of a gun...... which I was really pondering why even bother....

but as the storyline goes by..... I saw what role Usopp become..... it's not anything that you will call MAJOR in any way..........but he did his role quite well....... and it shows........

which I believe Aldrich either failed to notice it, or has been in total denial that someone as "Useless" as Usopp can be friends to someone that is so great like Luffy, Zoro and Sanji.....etc.....

Believe me.... one doesn't need to be great to be friends, just because one is a useless person...... even a useless person can do things that the great person can't..... but alas.... not many people want or willing to see it that way....... it's this stereotype thinking that is very common in humans.....

so, Usopp might be the "Useless" fool that he is..... but that doesn't mean he can't be friends or do some "Tiny" "Little" things that can help his friends....... so what that he doesn't get credited for anything? Is Luffy going to care?

everyone forgot that Luffy doesn't think Usopp is just your normal crewmember......but he is a friend to everyone on his crew.......

and besides, Oda is Oda...... we can debate all we want here, but Oda is the one that holds it all together....if he draws Usopp like that, that's his decision....because it is his storyline, his characters......... he is just sharing it for everyone to enjoy, and not sharing it because his life depended on it........

[Aldrich]

It's not the fact he can be friends with the other crewmembers I find ridiculous, of course he can, it's the fact he left the crew in most part because he felt weak and useless and will come back like if nothing happend while nothing changed in the meantime.