ok, here is the vs thread….
I think for Mihawk to have the title of "Greatest Swordsman in the World" and also using a small craft like his coffincraft to navigate the Grand Line, tells you that he is freaking strong....... and he has the strongest sword. I am sure Mihawk will not have a problem with Logias, if not, he won't be a Shichibukai or even the "Greatest Swordsmanin the World"!
Ready.
Get set.
GO!
maybe his black sword is black because is build with the special stone that block devils fruits (didn´t remember word sorry)
I think later on in one piece, there is going to be a way to damage logia users without having seastone and/or their weakness on hand. Luffy saying that there are people stronger than you to Eneru is kind of proof of this. I don't how its going to come about but I'm pretty sure Shanks and Whitebeard, and Mihawk probably know how to overcome these guys easily.
Well, I personally think that Mihawk would not have his title if he could be beaten by people who just have strong devil fruits. I mean, if any one who even wasn't a swordsman beat Mihawk then they'd be famous right?
Vs. Croc, I think he'd win. Croc, after getting his weakness exposed, was physically inferior to Luffy in speed and strength (round 3 here). Mihawk, who after deafeating Zoro, easilly dodged one of Luffy's attacks.
So, what I'm saying it, that if Mihawk merely dips his sword in any liquid (or if that thing is seastone, seeing how it's the some color as most seatone objects), then Mihawk will beat Croc.
Now Enel…it seems like Mihawk should beat Enel. Enel was a skilled warrior, but kind of underwhelming when his devil fruit didn't instantly zap his opponents. But truly, unless Mihawk can cut elements, then I can't say how Mihawk would beat him. Still though, if Mihawk is the high-tier opponent that I imagine, he'll show us some superior technique by the time he fights again.
But ultimately, I don't think logia fruits will seem as powerful as they do now by the end of the series. Who are the supposed strongest people in the world? Whitebeard, Dragon (alleged), the Blackbeard crew, the Admirals, and the Shichibukai, and the Red hair crew.
Now, logias are elements right? Well, how many elements are out there? What I'm saying here is, there are not enough logia/element fruits for all of these "Strongest people in OP." Therefore, I imagine that there must be something out there, some techinque, weapons ,or something, that is superior to logia devil fruits.
At least one of the strongest man in the One Piece world is a Logia, that's Aokiji.
True, but otherwise we're almost out of elements. There's like: wind and water left, unless the elements start getting more and more specific. I don't know, I just doubt that Whitebeard, Blackbeard, etc are going to by logia users. If Whitebeard is stronger then Ace then he must have a way to beat logia users.
I'm sure Mihawk can cut elements or logia users. The skill will probably be like Zoro's ability to hear the breath of things.
The more breath you hear, the more things you can cut.
I hear people and animals breathe ALL THE TIME, and I DO cut them!
**People should know that Oda himself stated that Mihawk can 'cut the elements' and that from that point on, it is up to personal interpetation.
Personally, I don't see what else it could mean besides him harming logias without xposing their weakness.
And while it's true that at least one logia is on the top of the world, also keep in mind that he is also a physical monster. What with taking Luffy's hits like they were nothing and grabbing Zoro/Sanji before they themselves realized it. And then there's the only other logia that is supposed to be super strong, Smoker, and we know he isalso a physical monster. Then we have Enel and Croc, who were nowhere near the strongest in the world, physically.
Also, isn't Null scantalating the databooks?**
would be nice if someone japanese speaking could read the according passage about mihawk for us and post it here.
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
This is how I see it:
"If you can dodge an-enraged Gomu Gomu brick, you can dodge an elemental ball".
It all depends on the logia
Mihawk is what we've always wanted out of a strong physical fighter - he isn't immune to a logia's offense, but he's skilled enough to overcome thier natural defense to physical assaults.
It really would all just come down to skill, but I'll say this much. If it's a logia like Croc or Enel, they'd get absolutely destroyed. Croc and Enel were tough enough for sure, but it's obvious they'd focused on thier logia powers alot over any kind of physical strength. To defeat Mihawk, the logia would have to be high level in not only his df abilities, but he'd also have to be a physical powerhouse to keep from getting chewn apart in close combat with an opponent like that.
Oda said that there were people on the grand line that even Enel would be powerless against, I think it's a fair assumption that Mihawk is one of those people, being the world's strongest swordsman. There probably isn't more than a handfull of people on the grandline that can stand up to him.
if a swordsman had a logia ability (zoro's next "mr.1" for mastering the breathe of elements) and mihawk couldn't defeat him then would he be the greatest swordsman? no
for me first is whitebeard then mihawk and (i am not sure who goes first) then sengoku and dragon as the world's best
also mihawk saying his sword is the strongest isn't an expression? later he sais to zoro surpass this sword
also i do agree tragic johnson in people knowing how to hit logias
The entire concept of the Shichibukai does not make sense if they aren't roughly equivalent in strength; I don't see why people can't understand this.
If any one of them was easily capable of killing the others, then the World Government would have them do just that without a second thought. There's no reason to cut a deal with somebody who you can defeat, especially a deal that seems to overwhelmingly benefit the Shichibukai. They don't have to worry about the Navy or bounty hunters anymore, they can legally own businesses without government interference, collect bounties as well as the spoils of war, and have autonomy to the point that they obey the World Government on a whim.
If one of the Shichibukai was stronger than the others, the World Government would make it worth his while to off the others. Same goes for the Admirals, who don't have the option of "I don't feel like it" like the Shichibukai. They can always replace the Shichibukai as other pirates would likely chalk their losses up to them being a loser and the deal is too sweet to pass up.
So people who write Crocodile off in a fight against Mihawk or any other Shichibukai aren't thinking things through logically.
As far as the Logias go, it would depend greatly on his sword. If it's made of seastone, it's possible, but not guaranteed. Ener's an idiot and wouldn't have a clue who Mihawk was, so he might let Mihawk hit him on purpose. Crocodile, on the other hand, would know all too well who Mihawk is and wouldn't take any chances with him.
Complicating things since 2009.
The entire concept of the Shichibukai does not make sense if they aren't roughly equivalent in strength; I don't see why people can't understand this.
If any one of them was easily capable of killing the others, then the World Government would have them do just that without a second thought. There's no reason to cut a deal with somebody who you can defeat, especially a deal that seems to overwhelmingly benefit the Shichibukai. They don't have to worry about the Navy or bounty hunters anymore, they can legally own businesses without government interference, collect bounties as well as the spoils of war, and have autonomy to the point that they obey the World Government on a whim.
If one of the Shichibukai was stronger than the others, the World Government would make it worth his while to off the others. Same goes for the Admirals, who don't have the option of "I don't feel like it" like the Shichibukai. They can always replace the Shichibukai as other pirates would likely chalk their losses up to them being a loser and the deal is too sweet to pass up.
So people who write Crocodile off in a fight against Mihawk or any other Shichibukai aren't thinking things through logically.
As far as the Logias go, it would depend greatly on his sword. If it's made of seastone, it's possible, but not guaranteed. Ener's an idiot and wouldn't have a clue who Mihawk was, so he might let Mihawk hit him on purpose. Crocodile, on the other hand, would know all too well who Mihawk is and wouldn't take any chances with him.
Man what is with the obsession of every member of a group being equal?
The Shichibaki are just powerful pirates, period. There is no flat level at all for being Shichibaki beyond kicking lots of ass and being well known for it. I agree that they are all highly dangerous individuals and they could all potentially pose threats to one another, but there are definately going to be some that are greater in both power and ability than others.
The Shichibaki are used by the world government to intimidate pirates - they are both feared and dangerous, the more famous the better. They are certainly the most powerful complient pirates there are, although examples like Shanks and Whitebeard show that not every powerful pirate is willing to dance to the government's tune.
Saying the WG would have them wipe each other out is just stupid (imo), they are a tool in the WG's arsenal of controlling this great age of pirates, by turning some of the most powerful pirates against the lesser ones. They are a formidable pocket of strength, and I dare say, if they were openly against the WG instead of with it, this great age of piracy would probably be too much to control without extremely drastic measures.
Right now the Shichibaki's value is not only in adding to the Government's strength, but detracting from that of the pirates, as quick example, let's say currently the Age of Piracy and the WG are stalemated. The Age of Pirates is making no progress, but the WG can't seem to stop it either. So we got 50/50. But the Shichibaki make up one of the three great powers, so let's not only delete them from the WG's side, but let's add thier strength and numbers to the already considerable pirate problem facing the WG. You go from 50/50, to like 66/34. See the tilt in power?
Stupid math examples aside, (dont take them literally, I'm just illustrating the tilt) the Shichibaki serve a vital role to the current WG.
As far as Enel and Mihawk goes, Oda said there were people on the grandline that Enel would be helpless against (I doubt there are many more rubber men running around). So count off the top 5 strongest people in the series, and you probably have a good idea as to who could beat Enel's ass. And I think Mihawk would be among them.
Man what is with the obsession of every member of a group being equal?
Because the concept doesn't make sense if there isn't a balance?
There might be a strongest and a weakest Shichibukai, but it simply doesn't make sense for there to be too wide a disparity from one extreme to another. They don't have to be exactly equal, but should be close enough to be considered equals. The notion that Crocodile would easily lose to Mihawk just doesn't make sense.
Mihawk is the strongest Swordsman of the group, while another of them may be physically strongest. Jinbei is a likely candidate for that. Crocodile might be weaker physically, but I doubt Jinbei would fare too well against his Logia.
They are certainly the most powerful complient pirates there are, although examples like Shanks and Whitebeard show that not every powerful pirate is willing to dance to the government's tune.
True, which is all the more reason that they should weed out weaker members if there's too large a disparity in strength and replace them with somebody else. There's not going to be a shortage of people who think that they're strong enough for the job and who would be willing to cut a deal with the Government.
Complicating things since 2009.
True, which is all the more reason that they should weed out weaker members if there's too large a disparity in strength and replace them with somebody else. There's not going to be a shortage of people who think that they're strong enough for the job and who would be willing to cut a deal with the Government.
I just have to say this;
What pirate would want to be a Shichibukai if they just get killed off for not being strong enough?
Once they earn their position, it's theirs for keeps, I'd imagine, unless they openly betray the WG in a huge way (like Croc) or get killed off. Power discrepencies be damned.
And I don't think they need to be roughly equal for the system to work. They need to be above and beyond most other pirates, true, but among themselves it shouldn't matter.
The entire concept of the Shichibukai does not make sense if they aren't roughly equivalent in strength; I don't see why people can't understand this.
If any one of them was easily capable of killing the others, then the World Government would have them do just that without a second thought. There's no reason to cut a deal with somebody who you can defeat…
don't think so.One strong pirate wouldn't help since he can't cover all of the grandline so they decided it had the be 7 of them.
You can't let one kill another since you already got the strongest available and every possible replacement would lower the average power of the shichibukai and therefore their overall use.
so they are the strongest available and can't be replaced just like that so even if one could kill another it won't be allowed and therefore their individual strengths could very well be quite different.
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
It's highly improbable that there are more than like 10 logia users overall in the world, so you really don't run into them that often. And each one of them has their own, elemental weakness and a weakness against seastones.
And they have another weakness: Speed. Even Enels thunders could be dodged, even though Thunder is supposed to be as-fast-as-it-can-get. It's probably safe to assume that Mihawk posesses moves that by far surpasses Soru, so that even if he isn't able to defeat his enemies without the use of seastones, at least his enemies won't be able to defeat him as well.
to pull a Vivi, v.
to stick to a certain group of people, principle, ideal, etc. for an extended period of time just to jump off due to an ulterior motif at the very last, frickin moment.
1\. I left my wife for you! Now don't pull a Vivi on me!
2\. I've got to pull a Vivi: No more beer for me…
And they have another weakness: Speed. Even Enels thunders could be dodged, even though Thunder is supposed to be as-fast-as-it-can-get. It's probably safe to assume that Mihawk posesses moves that by far surpasses Soru, so that even if he isn't able to defeat his enemies without the use of seastones, at least his enemies won't be able to defeat him as well.
Why is it "safe to assume that"? It's not. Aside from certain Logia users and Usopp (in comedic situations), no one has been able to move more quickly than Soru, not even Kuro's Shakushi.
Why is it "safe to assume that"? It's not. Aside from certain Logia users and Usopp (in comedic situations), no one has been able to move more quickly than Soru, not even Kuro's Shakushi.
**We havn't seen anyone stronger than Lucchi show of more than 5% of their ability. Smoker, Ace, Mihawk and AoKiji are the ONLY characters above Lucchi that have shown any ability. Mihawk moved faster than the eye three times, 2 times with his hands and the other going from his little boat to Krieg's. We saw Smoker appear behind Luffy before he could notice, he even commented on how slow Luffy was I believe. And AoKiji speed feat was grabbing and lifting Sanji and Zoro before they even noticed.
We also KNOW the high-tier OP chracters can move faster than Lucchi's soru. It's common sense. And it's very, very, very, very, very likley they can move much faster than lighting.**
don't think so.One strong pirate wouldn't help since he can't cover all of the grandline so they decided it had the be 7 of them.
Except that makes no sense. Seven is an arbitrary number so do not bring that into the discussion; regarding strength, the Shichibukai are a NUISANCE the the World Government, and through their special contracts they become less of a nuisance. However, if de Flamingo messing with the Marines is any indicator, the World Government would likely wish they were rid of the Shichibukai if there wasn't a need for them, as they've got the Marines, Buster Call, and the Supreme Admirals to clean house for them. Why need outside help? If the World Government could kill the seven Shichibukai, they probably would in any way possible; since they can't, the secondary option is to make them allies.
You can't let one kill another since you already got the strongest available and every possible replacement would lower the average power of the shichibukai and therefore their overall use.
Despite what some pirates might say, the Shichibukai are not government dogs. They're legal pirates, which means they can do whatever the fudge they want without getting pestered by the Marines (like Arlong); this includes "liberation" like what de Flamingo was doing or pirate hunting like Mihawk.
Since they're not fully under the control of the World Government, I'd imagine the WG would rather be rid of them than have them as allies.
so they are the strongest available and can't be replaced just like that so even if one could kill another it won't be allowed and therefore their individual strengths could very well be quite different.
I'd imagine the Shichibukai to not be the "strongest available", they're the strongest/most reknown/fearsome folks that were willing to put up with the World Government for some reason. If the government couldn't kill any of the individual Shichibukai and approached said Shichibukai asking for a deal, whereby the government wouldn't "pester" them in exchange for loot earned by the Shichibukai, WHY SHOULD THE SHICHIBUKAI PIRATE COMPLY? It's like for one guy in a chess game who is about to lose make a deal with the potential winner to call the game a draw; why do that? Unless the Shichibukai have an alterior motive, there's no reason to join up with the World Government.
Croc's reason was likely to get contacts, funds, and resources for establishing the Ideal Nation. de Flamingo's is probably connected to his belief in the coming of the "New Age of Piracy". I can't say anything about Kuma or Jimbei.
@Octogon:
**We havn't seen anyone stronger than Lucchi show of more than 5% of their ability. Smoker, Ace, Mihawk and AoKiji are the ONLY characters above Lucchi that have shown any ability. Mihawk moved faster than the eye three times, 2 times with his hands and the other going from his little boat to Krieg's. We saw Smoker appear behind Luffy before he could notice, he even commented on how slow Luffy was I believe. And AoKiji speed feat was grabbing and lifting Sanji and Zoro before they even noticed.
We also KNOW the high-tier OP chracters can move faster than Lucchi's soru. It's common sense. And it's very, very, very, very, very likley they can move much faster than lighting.**
See, you were making sense until that car wreck of a second paragraph reared it's ugly head. If Mihawk moved "faster than the eye can see", he's roughly equal to Soru in speed, not faster than it. Smoker, like Croc, can fly, and sometimes when those two fly, they manipulate air to propel themselves at stuff like rockets. Aokiji's speed may or may not be related to his Devil Fruit.
And, again, I don't care how fast Lucci is, there's no way he could move faster than lightning unless he was a Saiyan. Even in a manga where people can kick with the same force of trucks, moving faster than the speed of light has yet to be accomplished. The concept of people saying they see individuals "moving faster than the eye can see" is just a writing device to put extreme speed into context with normal speed; it's not a literal measurement of speed at all.
Just out of curiosity, and in the effort to find common ground, just who are the individuals you think Oda was referring to when he said there were people on the grandline that Enel would be powerless against (remember this in context - it's basically referring to people who could kick Enel's ass)
I'd say Whitebeard, the three Admirals, perhaps Sengoku and guys among the third great power of Grandline.
Then again, I'm pulling this out of thin air.
See, you were making sense until that car wreck of a second paragraph reared it's ugly head. If Mihawk moved "faster than the eye can see", he's roughly equal to Soru in speed, not faster than it.
**No. If that was the case then flash would just be soru speed, but he can go trillions of times that speed. It's just not true, at all.
How did you come to the conclusion that all speed that is unseeable is the same as roughly the same as soru speed?**
Smoker, like Croc, can fly, and sometimes when those two fly, they manipulate air to propel themselves at stuff like rockets. Aokiji's speed may or may not be related to his Devil Fruit.
**That's a weak explanaton. If crocodile could do what you said, he would have. And Smoker didn't even use his logia powers. AoKiji was using his hands, nothing to do with his DF.
Also, Croc can't really fly.**
And, again, I don't care how fast Lucci is, there's no way he could move faster than lightning unless he was a Saiyan. Even in a manga where people can kick with the same force of trucks, moving faster than the speed of light has yet to be accomplished.
Lucchi probaley isn't, but I'm sure the elites are.
The concept of people saying they see individuals "moving faster than the eye can see" is just a writing device to put extreme speed into context with normal speed; it's not a literal measurement of speed at all.
Contradicting yourself already, are we?
Then again, I'm pulling this out of thin air.
That's fine - everybody is going to have thier own list. I'm just saying we do know there is a definitive group, even if it the roster itself is unknown to us, that Oda knows can dominate Enel.
For me, it'd be Mihawk, Whitebeard, Ako-iji, Sengoku at a minimum, and probably more, but I hate to speculate on guys who haven't even been introduced yet.
Why is it "safe to assume that" [Mihawk posesses a skill as powerful as Soru]? It's not. Aside from certain Logia users and Usopp (in comedic situations), no one has been able to move more quickly than Soru, not even Kuro's Shakushi.
It's as simple as that: Mihawk is obviously stronger than Kaku. Because Kaku is a swordsman and Mihawk is the strongest of them all.
But Kaku posesses Soru. So if Mihawk is slower than Kaku, that would also mean that a mere CP9 agent could defeat the strongest swordsman in the world, simply because the one who can't keep up with the enemy's speed has no chance of winning.
But Kaku is not the strongest swordsman. Mihawk is. That's why Mihawk has to be faster than Kaku and faster than Soru XDDDDDD
to pull a Vivi, v.
to stick to a certain group of people, principle, ideal, etc. for an extended period of time just to jump off due to an ulterior motif at the very last, frickin moment.
1\. I left my wife for you! Now don't pull a Vivi on me!
2\. I've got to pull a Vivi: No more beer for me…
It's as simple as that: Mihawk is obviously stronger than Kaku. Because Kaku is a swordsman and Mihawk is the strongest of them all.
But Kaku posesses Soru. So if Mihawk is slower than Kaku, that would also mean that a mere CP9 agent could defeat the strongest swordsman in the world, simply because the one who can't keep up with the enemy's speed has no chance of winning.
But Kaku is not the strongest swordsman. Mihawk is. That's why Mihawk has to be faster than Kaku and faster than Soru XDDDDDD
FLAW: Zoro does not possess above-Soru speed.
I think the Gyojin / Giants have something to do with the 3rd power.
From what we've seen of Giants, they can own a bitch or two. And Fishmen aren't weak, it's just Arlong gave us all a bad impression because he was not expecting someone like Luffy and he also left the Grand Line eight years ago, so he probably grew a bit fat and weak from his luxurious life. Gyojin on the Grandline are badasses, from what we've seen:
1. Tom took a harpoon to the chest and lifted Franky's Battleships with A SINGLE HAND.
2. That half-giant half-fishman was a BEAST. If Sanji wasn't a bigger beast, he would've owned them.
When we get to Elbaf and Gyojin Island, we'll see some people get owned.
I called it wrong, so long ago. I guess this needs to be changed.
I doubt fishmen and giants form the third group, we've seen giants be part of the Marine and at least one fishman is a Shichibukai, the groups of Grandline aren't based on race.
@Octogon:
How is that a flaw? Explain yourself.
Well it's a flaw because it's saying that "because Mihawk is a better swordsman than Kaku, he can move faster than Kaku." Just because he is a better swordsman, doesn't necessarily mean he can move faster than Kaku. The counter-example to this is Zoro. Zoro doesn't possess Soru, but he was able to defeat Kaku. He was able to keep up with Kaku's Soru, but that doesn't mean that he can move like it. At least he hasn't shown it.
@Octogon:
How is that a flaw? Explain yourself.
Hmh no, he might be right ;_; Zoro defeated Kaku without actually using Soru speed like Luffy did when he fought Bruno/Lucci, but Zoro still dodged Kaku's attacks and kept up with his speed Oo;
Hmmmmh, is it possible to defeat someone even though you are significantly slower without simply tanking the attacks? I'd say no, even though I'm not exactly sure.
It's hard to believe that someone can keep up with Soru speed, dodge/counter those attacks and even defeat the soru-user without being able to move that fast as well. Probably Zoro just didn't use that disappearing part of Soru, but if he can defeat Kaku, he surely has the physical requirements. As well as Mihawk has.
Uhm lol, what are we talking about anyway XDDDD
Well it's a flaw because it's saying that "because Mihawk is a better swordsman than Kaku, he can move faster than Kaku." Just because he is a better swordsman, doesn't necessarily mean he can move faster than Kaku. The counter-example to this is Zoro. Zoro doesn't possess Soru, but he was able to defeat Kaku. He was able to keep up with Kaku's Soru, but that doesn't mean that he can move like it. At least he hasn't shown it.
But that doesn't apply because Zoro and Kaku are very close in terms of strengh. I found it quite obvious that when blacky said 'stronger, he meant 'far stronger'
**> Agreed.
Personally, I think bounty hunters might may make up the third power.**
I think your actually right Octogon. When the explanation was given, it was as to why the grandline was a pirate's graveyard.
The world government itself, the Shichibaki, and then the bounty hunters out to collect.
Actually, if we have another powerful side opponent like Lucci that appears, I would very much like to see what some of the Grand Line's best bounty hunters would be like in level. ( I would love to see a bounty hunter try to collect on Zoro as a former bounty hunter and pirate hunter as well )
unchipu is correct.
blacky: If Mihawk can't move above Soru, then Kaku would beat him because his speed would be better than his.
Me: Zoro beat Kaku without moving faster than Soru.
And that is the flaw in the quoted statement.
The WG isn't one of the groups though, as Shichibukais are under its orders.
Btw we're all wondering about the third group, but we don't even know the second; it seems the safest guess is the three Admirals, but it has never been confirmed by Oda. It's really weird in more than 400 chapters he didn't talk more about it. It sometimes seems he forgot about it or something.
Except that makes no sense. Seven is an arbitrary number so do not bring that into the discussion;
What the..?! I didn't choose that number.I guess it doesn't matter that much if it's 6,7 or 8 but if you let the strongest kill the others you have only one left and that's definitely not enough regardless of how arbitrary the Number the WG deems to be ok is.
Since they're not fully under the control of the World Government, I'd imagine the WG would rather be rid of them than have them as allies.
They have got no choice, so what? The WG obviously needs them.
There are only so much strong pirates willing to do it and if you kill off even the few available the rest of the pirate world will be thankful and delighted.
I'd imagine the Shichibukai to not be the "strongest available", they're the strongest/most reknown/fearsome folks that were willing to put up with the World Government for some reason.
Available=willing to put up with the World Government!
Those unwilling to do it aren't available ;)
Again, if they would let the strongest pirates "willing to put up with them" kill each other the shichibukai would stop to exist.They need all of them to keep the whole of grandline in check.
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
Just out of curiosity, and in the effort to find common ground, just who are the individuals you think Oda was referring to when he said there were people on the grandline that Enel would be powerless against (remember this in context - it's basically referring to people who could kick Enel's ass)
i have just one word for you: plastics
The WG isn't one of the groups though, as Shichibukais are under its orders.
Btw we're all wondering about the third group, but we don't even know the second; it seems the safest guess is the three Admirals, but it has never been confirmed by Oda. It's really weird in more than 400 chapters he didn't talk more about it. It sometimes seems he forgot about it or something.
I say the three admirals are a good guess of the second power. I mean both they and the schichbukai have animal-based names.
The WG isn't one of the groups though, as Shichibukais are under its orders.
Btw we're all wondering about the third group, but we don't even know the second; it seems the safest guess is the three Admirals, but it has never been confirmed by Oda. It's really weird in more than 400 chapters he didn't talk more about it. It sometimes seems he forgot about it or something.
Honestly, Octogon's idea was the best, even if they haven't been focused on very much yet (hopefully that will change)
The three groups were the reason the grandline was known as a pirate's graveyard, so -
Hopefully we will get to see some powerful bounty hunters (Hell, I guess Blackbeard falls into this category at the moment) come after Luffy in the near future after thier bounty skyrockets again
@Octogon:
No. If that was the case then flash would just be soru speed, but he can go trillions of times that speed. It's just not true, at all.
This isn't a discussion about some DC crack that I don't know about and has no relevance to Japanese manga.
@Octogon:
How did you come to the conclusion that all speed that is unseeable is the same as roughly the same as soru speed?
That is a logical assumption because there's no reference point for determining speed beyond "faster than the eye can see". Watasuki came up with a bullcrack explanation of, "so fast the eye can't register it" to describe Soujirou's speed (from Shishio's eyes) in comparison to Kenshin's, but we've yet to see Oda make such an explanation thus far in the manga. Until he says something like that, we assume that human beings have limited potential and cannot move at the speed of light simply out of desire to do so. Don't assume Mihawk is faster than Kaku simply because Mihawk is more infamous; that's the same blunder people make with bounties, which do not indicate strength but reputation.
@Octogon:
**That's a weak explanaton. If crocodile could do what you said, he would have. And Smoker didn't even use his logia powers. AoKiji was using his hands, nothing to do with his DF.
Also, Croc can't really fly.**
I'm dumbfounded. Eveything about Smoker and Croc was in the manga, there's no "explanation" unless you're calling Oda himself weak. Go back and read Loguetown and the Palace scene in Arabasta.
@Octogon:
Lucchi probaley isn't, but I'm sure the elites are.
fgsfds.
@Octogon:
Contradicting yourself already, are we [becase Terek is actually two people]?
A literal description of speed would be, "he's moving 45 km/s", or, "he's moving at the speed of light". Moving "faster than the eye can see" is a rough/ambiguous description that can be either accurate or just exaggeration depending on the person.
i go with:
navy
shichibukai
cipherpol
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
7 IS an arbitrary number.
Oda chose it because he liked the seven samurai and modelled the Shichibukai after that.
Don't need any more reason.
Yibis One Piece Fansubs
Hrm. I really don't know how the hell he'd fare vs Logias. Although it'd be interesting to see how Mihawk would deal with Buggy.
This isn't a discussion about some DC crack that I don't know about and has no relevance to Japanese manga.
You don't have to know shit about the Flash, I told you he is trillioions of times faster than Soru. But by your logic, he would be soru speed just because he is going at unseeable speeds.
That is a logical assumption because there's no reference point for determining speed beyond "faster than the eye can see". Watasuki came up with a bullcrack explanation of, "so fast the eye can't register it" to describe Soujirou's speed (from Shishio's eyes) in comparison to Kenshin's, but we've yet to see Oda make such an explanation thus far in the manga. Until he says something like that, we assume that human beings have limited potential and cannot move at the speed of light simply out of desire to do so. Don't assume Mihawk is faster than Kaku simply because Mihawk is more infamous; that's the same blunder people make with bounties, which do not indicate strength but reputation.
**Oda does not have to explain a thing. It is clear that just cause two things are moving faster than the eye can see, it does not mean they are moving roughly the same speed. It's just absurd.
Mihawk not being faster than Kaku is like saying Gold Roger wasn't stronger than Luffy is now.
Also, bounties do give a rough measure of one's strengh. It just isn't absolute. But I'm not gonna get into another bounty argument.**
I'm dumbfounded. Eveything about Smoker and Croc was in the manga, there's no "explanation" unless you're calling Oda himself weak. Go back and read Loguetown and the Palace scene in Arabasta.
Please go back and read the last bit of Arabasta when Croc is at the palace
**Show me where he was flying. He never truly flew. He can use the wind to carry him, but he cannot fly. Sand is just too heavy.
Also, you have not shown any evidence supporting your statment that Smoker used somekind of trick with his logia powers to move that faast. And guess what? there is none.**
fgsfds.
Pinky and the Brain would disagree.
A literal description of speed would be, "he's moving 45 km/s", or, "he's moving at the speed of light". Moving "faster than the eye can see" is a rough/ambiguous description that can be either accurate or just exaggeration depending on the person.
Alright, I see what you mean.
@Octogon:
Mihawk not being faster than Kaku is like saying Gold Roger wasn't stronger than Luffy is now.
Again, I don't see how Mihawk's speed is related to his prowess with the sword. I'm not saying that he isn't faster than Kaku, I'm just wondering why Mihawk being a better/stronger swordsman automatically makes him faster than Kaku. As we saw with Zoro vs. Kaku, you don't necessarily have move faster than your opponent to defeat him.
Also I don't really follow your logic here, unless you're talking about Gold Roger's pure physical strength compared with Luffy's. In which case, again I don't see how you can automatically say Roger was stronger than Luffy is, since we haven't seen any direct evidence that shows how strong Roger was. It's possible that he was a DF user, and just really knew how to use his abilities really, really well. What's the probability that Roger was (physically) stronger than Luffy is? Well I have to say that it's pretty high, but it's not 100%.
Now if you meant that Roger's overall strength was higher than Luffy's current strength, I will have to agree. However, then you can't use it to support your argument in this way. Speed is only one part of one's overall strength. Consider these stats that I've tentatively applied to Zoro, Mihawk, and Kaku. If you don't like them, just imagine they're 3 random people then.
On a scale of 10:
Kaku (non-DF):
strength: 6
speed(soru): 9
swordsmanship: 5
toughness(tekkai): 8
total: 28
Zoro:
strength: 8
speed: 6
swordsmanship: 8
toughness: 6
total: 28
Mihawk:
strength: 8
speed: 8
swordsmanship: 10+
toughness: 7
total: 33
As you can see here, if you go by total strength, Mihawk is above both Zoro and Kaku, but taking speed alone, Mihawk is slower than Kaku. In this way, there exists a scenario where Mihawk can be stronger than Kaku, yet not be as fast because he makes it all up with swordsmanship and other things.
Again, I don't see how Mihawk's speed is related to his prowess with the sword. I'm not saying that he isn't faster than Kaku, I'm just wondering why Mihawk being a better/stronger swordsman automatically makes him faster than Kaku. As we saw with Zoro vs. Kaku, you don't necessarily have move faster than your opponent to defeat him.
Of course one doees not have to be faster to kick anothers ass. And of course one being beter with a sword does not make him faster. But with the ginourmas differance between Mihawk and someone like Kaku, it is clear that Mihawk is faster. Mihawk isn't going to be below Zoro in any fighting area.
Also I don't really follow your logic here, unless you're talking about Gold Roger's pure physical strength compared with Luffy's. In which case, again I don't see how you can automatically say Roger was stronger than Luffy is, since we haven't seen any direct evidence that shows how strong Roger was. It's possible that he was a DF user, and just really knew how to use his abilities really, really well. What's the probability that Roger was (physically) stronger than Luffy is? Well I have to say that it's pretty high, but it's not 100%.
Now if you meant that Roger's overall strength was higher than Luffy's current strength, I will have to agree. However, then you can't use it to support your argument in this way.
I'm saying The Pirate ing could have had kicked Luffy's rubber ass. Easily, I might add.
Speed is only one part of one's overall strength. Consider these stats that I've tentatively applied to Zoro, Mihawk, and Kaku. If you don't like them, just imagine they're 3 random people then.
On a scale of 10:
Kaku (non-DF):
strength: 6
speed(soru): 9
swordsmanship: 5
toughness(tekkai): 8
total: 28Zoro:
strength: 8
speed: 6
swordsmanship: 8
toughness: 6
total: 28Mihawk:
strength: 8
speed: 8
swordsmanship: 10+
toughness: 7
total: 33As you can see here, if you go by total strength, Mihawk is above both Zoro and Kaku, but taking speed alone, Mihawk is slower than Kaku. In this way, there exists a scenario where Mihawk can be stronger than Kaku, yet not be as fast because he makes it all up with swordsmanship and other things.
**Beieve me, few people on this board understand that just one skill does not mean you are better. I have dedicated my entire life to fighting and gaining strengh, litteraly.
It is completley true that speed alone does not kill. But there is such an obvious differance between Kaku and Mihawk, that is blatantley obvious that Mihawk is faster by a lot. Because we know that Zoro gets 10x stronger every arc. It would be impossible for Mihawk to put up even the tiniest fight if his speed is anywhere near Kaku's.**
