Chapter 428 "Let's Return" Discussion

Kokolores

Well, saving an old lady and a kid (and chopper) wouldn't really be 'uncool' for someone as chivalrous as Sanji.
Or maybe it's just that i want to see him in Mr.Prince mode again :)

So am i the only one that thinks Merry returning made the Luffy-Usopp thing completely meaningless now? The whole spirit thing is a bit too lame for OP standards.

I reserve my judgement on this matter until it's clear what will become of Merry. If this is just a plotdevice for Merry to have an opportunity to say goodbye to them it's ok, but if Merry has been fixed by that Klabautermann after all that drama in Water 7 it would be a little bit cheap as you said.

odlam

well, we do know the power of friendship in op is boundless.It's probably the first time in the history of odaverse that a ship was loved so much that it's klabauterman came to repair it not only once but even a second time after the ship fell from the sky (!).

…not to mention steered the ship to EL, had a little mind-talk with the crew and then possessed a cyborg and became the next crewmember^^

lol - I'll swallow it the same way I swallowed Pell surviving if I have to, OP is still 99.9% pure goodness, I'm just hoping there is a really good explanation beyond the power of friendship for an inanimate object.

And I would never sleep on that ship again if I were them. Final judgement is on standby though till next week when it's explanation time.

e1n

@Tom:

Wow, the final script ended up being so different from the spoiler script. This one's much more emotional and touching. That spoiler script must have been fake, or was it simply (major) translation errors?

see, that is EXACTLY why there is no need to go all koo koo kachoo over spoilers. >_>

Elric

btw, that's the ("irreparable") damage in question:http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume37.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=7080

Zero-Alpha

Heh…if the Strawhats do end up staying on Merry for the rest of the story, then the fact that he can apparently steer himself might become an issue.

Nami: "Damnit, Merry, I said PORT!"
Merry: "But I wanna go this way!"
Nami: "AAAARRRRGGHHH! Franky, build this ship an ass so I can kick it!"

Ivotas

Thanks for the raw hyakumaru. :)

darktravis

@onemoment:

You know, the complants about people dying are annoying me, because people here seem to want death for any other reason then a change of pace. That doesn't seem like a very good reason to kill someone.

Now, if the FF died that way, what point would it serve? What, that the BC can kill people? We saw that at Ohara. It give Franky a reason to join the crew. Eh, there are many other reasons, let's just leave it at that. No, if the FF had died right there then…well, it would just be randomly killing off characters. A forced tragedy. That's not good storytelling either.

Take, Dragonball Z, and the fight vs. Nappa. There, death served a purpose. As each fighter gave their lives to defeat Nappa, it made him seem more unstopppable, and made the situation seem more and more hopeless. It also made Goku's appearance all the more like a miracle.

Meanwhile, if the FF died in Enies Lobby, it would just make Franky sad. And it's not even unrealistic for them to survive either ,since the giants took most of the damage (but, wow, Paulie sure has a lot of rope huh?)

Now, while people do cheat death in One Piece, that doesn't mean that a bunch of cheap deaths will make up for it. One Piece is rarely...no wait...is never a story about tragedy. It's about victory, and a death toll only subtracts from the victory. Although, it would help if Oda stopped injuring hte minor characters so badly...

As for those who want the Merry to die, don't worry. It's will most likely sink after saving the SHs, unless Franky figures out a way to build his dreamship out of the Merry.

And for those who think the Merry appearing here is BS...wait til the next chapter.

^This post simply wins

Great chapter and very powerful. Notables:
-Best Franky crying face yet
-Buster Call destroying the ship adn more of the bridge creating massive tension
-Everyone jumping into Going Merry

I'm going to take the initiative this time and actually write down a prediction that I really think will come true. The giants escape from the island will be…riding the kingbulls (they have to wake up of course). The family and shipwrights can just use their ship (or the seatrain after they fix it). It's perfect. 2 giants = 2 kingbulls plus if you think about it, there's really no other way to get the giants off the island

sabret00the

So who do you think will be the voice actor for Merry? i think they should use Jiraiya, though i'm having nightmares of Merry sounding high-pitched and squeky.

Did i mention that i think that people disappointed with the FF being alive are well within their rights as much so as the people wanting Merry dead. Merry being alive negates the whole Luffy/Usopp drama. While the FF being alive detracts from the horrible tragedy and burden that is the Buster Call. In the last Buster Call despite intervention, Robin lost everyone and everything. To say that if she was 28 at the time everything would've been fine is well LUDICROUS and that's what the new Buster Call's ZERO kill rate is doing. I don't in any way think it's a good thing to see characters as vital as Zambai dying but to say that no matter what everyone survived a Buster Call is well cheap. I mean to say that the Mugiwara crew is the only crew to ever survive is one thing but over 60 random weaklings too? Of course the Galley-La and the Giants, though plentily weak as far as their involvement (at least since the Enies Lobby) to kill everyone would be bad and to be honest they have lives back at Water 7. I feel that Franky joining the Mugiwara through tragedy would've been good for the long term of the plot, for him what's seen as a corny, distracting character to join in a solemn mist of depression and have to fight through his loss in order to build his new friendships and loyalties would've worked. what starts of as an escape from reality turns into a new reality and the battle of his life, supporting his new nakama not allowing anything bad to happen to them. That would work. At this point if he joins it's gonna be like Nami joining, a rather corny goodbye with an overtly happy ending. This arc has been about sacrifice and yet the only things that have been sacrificed are building, it's incredibly weak and while this is a kiddies manga, this is overkill on the play nice and leaves less scope for mystery involving the coming arcs.

Le Lawliet

The same voice for Klaubatermann…

Falcon

I think that everyone will accept it if Merry stays for good because One Piece is overall just too enjoyable to quit over something so minor. At the same time, I believe Oda will have missed an opportunity to add emotional depth and create a clear breaking point between the parts of the story that losing Merry could provide.

Moosteak

You know, I really don't mind that it was Merry that saved the Strawhats.

But wait how the hell are Paulie and them going to escape? The sea train, right?

Also, it’s good for Franky to actually meet(ride) the Going Merry, because if he is ever going to build a ship like that it's good for him to experience it firsthand instead of making observations about what occurred. I kind of don’t want the Going Merry to stay though, I really want a new ship.

sabret00the

@yokaiforte:

The same voice for Klaubatermann…

it's been a long time, i totally forgot about that, i guess so.

odlam

I think that everyone will accept it if Merry stays for good because One Piece is overall just too enjoyable to quit over something so minor. At the same time, I believe Oda will have missed an opportunity to add emotional depth and create a clear breaking point between the parts of the story that losing Merry could provide.

Merry staying for good is fine. I think most of us expected him/it to return in some form anyways, even if it was just the figurehead or something. It's the explanation that has me nervous, not the event itself.

sabret00the

Someone should make a thread, "fruits Merry's eaten this arc":
Tear-Tear Fruit.
Camouflage-Camouflage Fruit.
Submarine-Submarine Fruit.
Talk-Talk Fruit.

and next is going to be, you guess it.
Wood-Wood Fruit as she heals herself and become stronger.

Aldrich

@Falcon:

I think that everyone will accept it if Merry stays for good because One Piece is overall just too enjoyable to quit over something so minor. At the same time, I believe Oda will have missed an opportunity to add emotional depth and create a clear breaking point between the parts of the story that losing Merry could provide.

Of course everyone will "accept" it, what are we gonna do, throw an hissy fit and stop reading the manga over that particular incident? It'd still be completely retarded though. "The keel is broken, the ship is dead, it'll collapse after the first wave" and all of sudden everything is good again? No. It's just Merry's last effort to help its friends (God I feel like a moron typing that), it'll die for good once it saved them.

I just hope we'll be spared the obvious tearjerking scene where Merry talks to Usopp "no, it's over Usopp, I'm going to die now, thanks for all your love", picture a crumbling ship saying that with Mickey Mouse's voice, I think my brain would liquefy from too much cornyness.

Elric

@darktravis:

It's perfect. 2 giants = 2 kingbulls plus if you think about it, there's really no other way to get the giants off the island

aren't the giants like twice the size of the king bulls?

@Aldrich:

I just hope we'll be spared the obvious tearjerking scene where Merry talks to Usopp "no, it's over Usopp, I'm going to die now, thanks for all your love", picture a crumbling ship saying that with Mickey Mouse's voice, I think my brain would liquefy from too much cornyness.

surely, merry's done for and won't stay.

edit:

from now on shipwrights will evaluate dead ships like this:

This ship won't even bring you to the next island unless you gave the dwarfish sailor in the raincoat enough love.

kabrumbs

Thx for the scan… and WOW

onemoment

@sabret00the:

So who do you think will be the voice actor for Merry? i think they should use Jiraiya, though i'm having nightmares of Merry sounding high-pitched and squeky.

Did i mention that i think that people disappointed with the FF being alive are well within their rights as much so as the people wanting Merry dead. Merry being alive negates the whole Luffy/Usopp drama. While the FF being alive detracts from the horrible tragedy and burden that is the Buster Call. In the last Buster Call despite intervention, Robin lost everyone and everything. To say that if she was 28 at the time everything would've been fine is well LUDICROUS and that's what the new Buster Call's ZERO kill rate is doing. I don't in any way think it's a good thing to see characters as vital as Zambai dying but to say that no matter what everyone survived a Buster Call is well cheap. I mean to say that the Mugiwara crew is the only crew to ever survive is one thing but over 60 random weaklings too? Of course the Galley-La and the Giants, though plentily weak as far as their involvement (at least since the Enies Lobby) to kill everyone would be bad and to be honest they have lives back at Water 7. I feel that Franky joining the Mugiwara through tragedy would've been good for the long term of the plot, for him what's seen as a corny, distracting character to join in a solemn mist of depression and have to fight through his loss in order to build his new friendships and loyalties would've worked. what starts of as an escape from reality turns into a new reality and the battle of his life, supporting his new nakama not allowing anything bad to happen to them. That would work. At this point if he joins it's gonna be like Nami joining, a rather corny goodbye with an overtly happy ending. This arc has been about sacrifice and yet the only things that have been sacrificed are building, it's incredibly weak and while this is a kiddies manga, this is overkill on the play nice and leaves less scope for mystery involving the coming arcs.

Wait, you didn't like Nami's joining? Well whatever, there's one detailing your missing. The Buster Call shot that ship earlier, most likely killing the 1000 marines within.

Sure, the are faceless characters, but they are dead either way. If you're going to complain that it's not enough, keep in mind that the characters are in the spotlight for a reason–they survive while the uninteresting characters fade away. And come to think of it, how to we know that some of those Franky Family members have died? We haven't accounted for them. There, there's your blood.

Also, who said that this arc was about sacrifice? There's been talk about sacrifice but that's hardly the theme. It's more about keeping the crew together.

dazze01

wow..cool chapter…XD "LOOK OUT ITS ZOMBIE MERRY!" lol! OP msn group sure is fast with their updates..they already have it in the pics section.

Gizmo

Aldrich, your avatar VA looked sort of less badass in the second shot.

Anyways Going Merry being back is the best way to tie up the ends with Usopp/the crew/and escaping BC without having to fight it. A little bit farfetched but oh well.

Prediction for next chapter:
Going Merry will probably lead the crew far enough to get to FF/Paulie/Giants. Then there emotional goodbye yadda yadda yadda while the Merry Go officially sinks into the ocean by the BCjust so they can say they took something down that's not a building…then all of them will go out on one ship or something towards Water 7. Then Usopp will use his amazing powers of Kabuto to do something to hold back the BC. NOT DEFEAT, just hold back. That will be an awesome two shot ending.

edit:point made that the BC did take down one of their own ships with 1000 soldiers. Scratch out the BC being not murderous.

Tank252ca

@Elric:

btw, that's the ("irreparable") damage in question:http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume37.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=7080

Nicely spotted Elric. I strongly suggest that people go to that page and continue to read that chapter until the end (when CP9 shows up). While Franky tells Usopp of the Klabautermann, he says "It's said to help the sailors in bigger ways sometimes" which the Merry is indeed doing. Next page Usopp says "The guy who talked to me really was you Merry" and now we have the ship speaking to other members of the crew. I wonder if Oda was foreshadowing these events back then?

In the same vane, the Klabautermann said "It's all right. I'll carry all of you for a little while longer." That's a pretty good indication that even the ship knew that it would not last much longer. What's important here is what the ship did not say. It did not say "I will never let you down" or "I will always be there for you." Given the words that Oda chose I would be very surprised if the ship survived any longer than a return trip to Water 7.

Malintex_Terek

Wow, Merry talking = win. We need to see more spirits; pirate adventures just seem sort of meh without ghosts, ghost ships and curses (we only have one curse) and voodoo.

Maybe Luffy will have a duel with a ghostly Gold Roger on a moonlit night. :O

Otherwise, my opinion of this chapter is like I previously said; not very high at all.

Tank252ca

@Aldrich:

I just hope we'll be spared the obvious tearjerking scene where Merry talks to Usopp "no, it's over Usopp, I'm going to die now, thanks for all your love", picture a crumbling ship saying that with Mickey Mouse's voice, I think my brain would liquefy from too much cornyness.

ROFLOL… That's priceless, but you know that the scene will be a tear jerker regardless.

Aldrich

@ultimateclima:

Aldrich, your avatar VA looked sort of less badass in the second shot.

You mean when he appears in the second page? I still think he looks more badass then 90% of the characters introduced yet.

Gizmo

@Aldrich:

You mean when he appears in the second page? I still think he looks more badass then 90% of the characters introduced yet.

Yea well he has nothing on Going Merry's badass shot at the end though jk

Jeeto

Well it seems to me that the answer to "what can usopp do?" that we've been asking ourselves (and thought was answered when he cheered Luffy to the lucci victory) is actually his ability to understand/hear/communicate witht he ship. I don't know if he CALLED the ship per se, but it can't be denied that Usopp has a special connection with the spirit of the ship….

Anyway.

In my opinion, I don't know if i think they'll keep the ship for the rest of the story, but it seems to me a more complete resolution to the luffy/usopp fight would be to first, have usopp stop being stubborn (i.e. giving up the sogeking act and talking to luffy who was also not stubborn and really glad to see him).

second, it would be RATHER than just leaving the ship docked and broken somewhere nondescript, not really knowing the fate, or trading it in for a bigger ship, at least if the Merry Goes out now, it's gonna go out by being blown to smithereens. Then not even usopp will be able to dispute the necesity of getting a new ship. I suppose now that she ship has chaacter development, they're gonna have to find a way to "transfer" its spirit somehow, and i know people don't like to hear it, but I think it really will end up being something like moving the sheephead to a new ship. Or having franky dismantle it and re-arrange it onto some kind of new hull.

ps, did anybody else see the conversation between franky and the franky family as a pretty sure sign franky is gonna stay with the strawhats from here on? (ie: "lets meet up again somewhere later"...)

onemoment

@Aldrich:

You mean when he appears in the second page? I still think he looks more badass then 90% of the characters introduced yet.

Honestly, while "your" VA looks like a hard-ass, he also seems pretty shocked. That is, if the "…..!! " is any indication. Judging from this chapter though, I think a VA fight is even more unlikey.

I mean, look what high those ships are. Are they just going to jump down there? No, I think we're going to have a ship fight or chase next. Like I've kept saying, these VAs seem to really like commanding their ships.

sgamer82

This is something I wanted to post in the spoiler thread, but it got closed before I could get to it.

While I feel the return of the Merry is a bit to Deux Ex Machina (literally appearing from nowhere and all). But I can accept it, only because the Klabautermann is one of only four occurrences in One Piece that have appeared to be purely supernatural in nature (as opposed to abnormal, but with a non-mythical explanation behind it). I can accept a bit of DEX-ness in this case simply because that supernatural nature of the Klabautermann makes it possible to do this without needing to resort to a convoluted explanation. Though I do have to admit I hope this is Merry's final voyage. It gives Merry the proper sendoff it was denied by Kaku.

Of course, all this is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

P.S. The other three instances of pure supernatural occurrences I'm counting at the moment are the Devil Fruits, Mantra, and Zoro's Ashura. Pending explanations those three are mystic in nature in my mind.

dewagila

yay ….

pauly web-rope and .... well-fixed-merry by klaubautterman???

Overtaker

hmmm
still i think if they want to survive, they will have to outrun the BC ships
and I think one way to do that is to set sail with kokoro pushing / pulling merry from underwater XD

Aldrich

@onemoment:

Honestly, while "your" VA looks like a hard-ass, he also seems pretty shocked. That is, if the "…..!! " is any indication. Judging from this chapter though, I think a VA fight is even more unlikey.

I mean, look what high those ships are. Are they just going to jump down there? No, I think we're going to have a ship fight or chase next. Like I've kept saying, these VAs seem to really like commanding their ships.

Of course a VA fight is unlikely, and that's perfect like that, as either way it wouldn't feel right now: either the Strawhats defeat them in one strike and the VAs are nancies, or they're, like I think, extremely powerful and kill the Strawhats, resulting in the manga ending prematurely.

I disagree though about Scarface looking shocked, of course he's midly surprised, but while the average Marines do look shocked and panicked, he doesn't really seem to care. You know he's seen worse and isn't that impressed.

myogatheflea

I expect some damn good explanations next chapter!! Right now, though, I'm pretty freaking amazed at what just happened.

Polygon

@Aldrich:

I disagree though about Scarface looking shocked, of course he's midly surprised, but while the average Marines do look shocked and panicked, he doesn't really seem to care. You know he's seen worse and isn't that impressed.

Exactly. this shows his true level. If anything, he's dissapointed and disgusted in Lucchi for losing.

Elric

if things get rough klabauterman will take care of it.Klabauters are tough:

See? He's blue and he's a badass^^

sgamer82

@myogatheflea:

I expect some damn good explanations next chapter!! Right now, though, I'm pretty freaking amazed at what just happened.

I don't know about that. While it may not necessarily be a good thing, the fact that we're likely looking at the Klabaurtermann's intervention here kind of negates the need for a damn good explanation. Some supernatural occurrence has just, well, occurred.

dazze01

did anyone noticed the left side of the ship that Franky ripped off has a metal plate attached to it? i say ice burg…

onemoment

The VA's are extremely powerful? Not really, if they're below the Admirals and the Shichibukai, then they're probably just strong enough to beat the SHs in their weakened condition.

The problem with the VA's is that they fill a position that's probably available to 50 or more people vs. a possition that's available to 3 people. I'm just annoyed that people think these guys are the next Aokiji, or suggesting that they'll do something similar to him. It kind of downgrades Aokiji's status.

But then it's probably a moot point since that fights probably not going to happen. Still though, Lucci's most likely stronger then that one VA.

Polygon

@onemoment:

The VA's are extremely powerful? Not really, if they're below the Admirals and the Shichibukai, then they're probably just strong enough to beat the SHs in their weakened condition.

The problem with the VA's is that they fill a position that's probably available to 50 or more people vs. a possition that's available to 3 people. I'm just annoyed that people think these guys are the next Aokiji, or suggesting that they'll do something similar to him. It kind of downgrades Aokiji's status.

But then it's probably a moot point since that fights probably not ging to happen. Still though, Lucci's most likely stronger then that one VA.

You can't be serious.

Cr4zy

@Octogon:

You can't be serious.

I Second that…..

onemoment

@Octogon:

You can't be serious.

Well, at least the strongest SHs could. I mean, aside from the "second highest rank." We've seen no real proof to back it up, a least for this guys.

I'm just imaging that the real strongest in the marines will be developed characters. At the very leats, they're less then Lucci and far less then Aokiji–but that one should be a given.

Just these 5 VAs though. I mean, we've clearly not seen all the VAs that the marines have, right?

The logic following the Vas strength is that "that have tough looking character deisgns and they have that rank which be shounen logic means tough." Well that might be, but we usually have more then that.

Crocodile killed an entire pirate crew. Ace blocked Smokers attacks. Smoker easily beat Luffy. Aokiji easily dispatch Sanji, Luffy, and Zoro. These Vas have done nothing.

In fact, remember those displays of power that the BC's cannonfire showed us before they arrived at Enies Lobby, destroying the Tower of Justice? That's probably these VAs power right there. There 5 are just the minds controling the body that is the Buster Call. The Buster Calls the big star here.

I just don't think it's likely that these guys are going to show the same level of "pwnage" as Aokiji/Kuzan did at Ohara. That sort of thing is saved for the future Admiral, and if they were going to do that then they would have instead of sending 200 captains. These 5 VAs are leaders moreso then warriors.

Overtaker

@onemoment:

The VA's are extremely powerful? Not really, if they're below the Admirals and the Shichibukai, then they're probably just strong enough to beat the SHs in their weakened condition.

The problem with the VA's is that they fill a position that's probably available to 50 or more people vs. a possition that's available to 3 people. I'm just annoyed that people think these guys are the next Aokiji, or suggesting that they'll do something similar to him. It kind of downgrades Aokiji's status.

But then it's probably a moot point since that fights probably not going to happen. Still though, Lucci's most likely stronger then that one VA.

refering to what smoker said, it does make sense
that's why the SHs can take on 200 marines which are at the same level as smoker, probably the VA is not as strong as aokiji either, they just got that rank because of corruption ?

Le Lawliet

@Overtaker:

refering to what smoker said, it does make sense
that's why the SHs can take on 200 marines which are at the same level as smoker, probably the VA is not as strong as aokiji either, they just got that rank because of corruption ?

Smoker'd be a VA if he wasn't so disobedient…

onemoment

@Overtaker:

refering to what smoker said, it does make sense
that's why the SHs can take on 200 marines which are at the same level as smoker, probably the VA is not as strong as aokiji either, they just got that rank because of corruption ?

These captains aren't the same level as Smoker, they're the same rank as Smoker. There's a big difference.

If these 200–a few of which have been OHKO'd be now--are the same level as Smoker, then he's dead to the story right now.

And who's to say that Smoker wouldn't be an Admiral right now if he weren't so disobdient? It seems possible that he and Aokiji are close to the same level. I mean, Smoker beat Luffy and Sanji (not shown in the anime I think) within a few minutes of each other.

Aldrich

@onemoment:

The VA's are extremely powerful? Not really, if they're below the Admirals and the Shichibukai, then they're probably just strong enough to beat the SHs in their weakened condition.

You'll have to explain the train of thoughts that produced that conclusion. How being just below a guy who absolutely bombed the three strongest Strawhats out in a few seconds without even trying means they're just strong enough to beat said weakened Strawhats?

The problem with the VA's is that they fill a position that's probably available to 50 or more people vs. a possition that's available to 3 people. I'm just annoyed that people think these guys are the next Aokiji, or suggesting that they'll do something similar to him. It kind of downgrades Aokiji's status.

You do realize you're saying the VAs are probably among the 50 strongest fighters of the Marine elite? And somehow these guys would'nt be worthy opponents for the Strawhats? I even doubt there's a lot of pirates among Whitebeard and Shanks crews that could get rid of Vice Admirals, the Marine would have been wiped out long ago had it been the case.

But then it's probably a moot point since that fights probably not ging to happen. Still though, Lucci's most likely stronger then that one VA.

Fact is, the Strawhats aren't that weakened. Robin and Usopp didn't fight, Franky is still cola powered, Sanji, Zoro and Nami didn't suffer even half the injuries they had in Alabasta. If the Vice Admirals were that weak, Oda would have already send them to the slaughterhouse against the Strawhats. But he didn't, that must say something.

In fact, remember those displays of power that the BC's cannonfire showed us before they arrived at Enies Lobby, destroying the Tower of Justice? That's probably these VAs power right there. There 5 are just the minds controling the body that is the Buster Call. The Buster Calls the big star here.

I know you like your argument of "the real threat is the Buster Call". What you don't get is the Vice Admirals are part of the threat that is the Buster Call, without them it wouldn't be even close. Remember when Robin first mentionned it, she said it was an emergency call summoning 5 VAs from the HQ and 10 battleships. She clearly mentions the 5 VAs first. If they were just pawns, just here to command the ships, why would Robin mention them?

Polygon

@onemoment:

Well, at least the strongest SHs could. I mean, aside from the "second highest rank." We've seen no real proof to back it up, a least for this guys.

Of course there's no actual solid proof, because we havn't actually seen them fight. But there is shitloads of evidence that suggests the VAs would kick the SH into next week.

I'm just imaging that the real strongest in the marines will be developed characters. At the very leats, they're less then Lucci and far less then Aokiji–but that one should be a given.

**Who's to say these guys won't be devolped? And besides, one does not have to be a devolped character to be strong in OP. Just think about the vast number of people that could beat up the SH and havn't even been introduced, some never will.

The number of VAs is enough that a few can go undevolped, but small enough that we know you have to be l333t to become one.**

Just these 5 VAs though. I mean, we've clearly not seen all the VAs that the marines have, right?

Exactly.

The logic following the Vas strength is that "that have tough looking character deisgns and they have that rank which be shounen logic means tough." Well that might be, but we usually have more then that.

**That like saying the Royal guards from Blach aren't strong. Have we ever seen one? But we kow their strong.

With the VAs, there's absolutley NOTHING to suggest the SH can beat them.**

Crocodile killed an entire pirate crew. Ace blocked Smokers attacks. Smoker easily beat Luffy. Aokiji easily dispatch Sanji, Luffy, and Zoro. These Vas have done nothing.

**Smoker is thought to be VA level, and with good reason. There are certain stuff you just know, and the VAs being strong is one of them.

And so what if we havn't see them do shit?**

In fact, remember those displays of power that the BC's cannonfire showed us before they arrived at Enies Lobby, destroying the Tower of Justice? That's probably these VAs power right there. There 5 are just the minds controling the body that is the Buster Call. The Buster Calls the big star here.

If anything, the VAs are the real reason the BS is so feared.

I just don't think it's likely that these guys are going to show the same level of "pwnage" as Aokiji/Kuzan did at Ohara. That sort of thing is saved for the future Admiral, and if they were going to do that then they would have instead of sending 200 captains. These VAs are leaders moreso then warriors.

**They are high ranking marines. They are leaders and warriors.

Just awnser me this. What SH can sleep through a cut from Morgan to the chest and hen proceed to smash a canon right after they wake up?**

onemoment

@Aldrich:

You'll have to explain the train of thoughts that produced that conclusion. How being just below a guy who absolutely bombed the three strongest Strawhats out in a few seconds without even trying means they're just strong enough to beat said weakened Strawhats?

You do realize you're saying the VAs are probably among the 50 strongest fighters of the Marine elite? And somehow these guys would'nt be worthy opponents for the Strawhats? I even doubt there's a lot of pirates among Whitebeard and Shanks crews that could get rid of Vice Admirals, the Marine would have been wiped out long ago had it been the case.

Fact is, the Strawhats aren't that weakened. Robin and Usopp didn't fight, Franky is still cola powered, Sanji, Zoro and Nami didn't suffer even half the injuries they had in Alabasta. If the Vice Admirals were that weak, Oda would have already send them to the slaughterhouse against the Strawhats. But he didn't, that must say something.

I'm sorry, I moreso meant that "the VAs may be worthy opponents to the SHs, but not in their weakened condition." Moreso, I don't believe that 5 stronger opponents then the CP9 have already appeared, or that they'll overlap the Buster Call like Aokiji did.

The situation here is that the Buster Call is destroying Enies Lobby. The VAs are leading it. Otherwise, thinking that they'll do anything more then that is some type of weird character bias.

Check my earlier posts, I put more reasons there. If the VAs were going to kick some ass then we would have seen them cause destruction instead of the BC cannon breaking the Tower of Justice, and they wouldn't have sent out those 200 captains.

These VAs are either are weaker then their cannons (that's not too unrealistic, no?) or they're just lazy.

Elric

@onemoment:

If the VAs were going to kick some ass then we would have seen them cause destruction instead of the BC cannon breaking the Tower of Justice, and they wouldn't have sent out those 200 captains

@Aldrich:

If the Vice Admirals were that weak, Oda would have already send them to the slaughterhouse against the Strawhats. But he didn't, that must say something.

Within a few minutes you two have already come to the point where u r using the same fact (the VAs didn't attack) to support inverse points.

That discussion can't lead anywhere.

Aldrich

@onemoment:

These VAs are either are weaker then their cannons (that's not too unrealistic, no?) or they're just lazy.

They're not lazy, they think they don't have to put dirt on their hands for such lowly pirates.

And honestly, you can't really blame them; if not for a ghost ship coming directly from the author's posterior region, sending the 200 captains to take care of the Strawhats would most likely have been enough to get rid of them.

@Elric:

Within a few minutes you two have already come to the point where u r using the same fact (the VAs didn't attack) to support inverse points.

That discussion can't lead anywhere.

I know, but there's fucking dogs barking outside and I can't sleep, so bear with me.

onemoment

@Elric:

You two are already using the same facts (the VAs didn't attack) to support inverse points.

The discussion won't lead anywhere.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see that. But, let me say this…

@Octogon:

If anything, the VAs are the real reason the BC is so feared.

No, I think that it's the firepower. Everyone describes that when mentioning the BC, like how the BC "wipes islands off the map." That's the BC's cannonpower, not the VAs. The Buster Call is the big player in Water 7, and the thing that killed Ohara.

Polygon

@onemoment:

No, I think that it's the firepower. Everyone describes that when mentioning the BC, like how the BC "wipes islands off the map." That's the BC's cannonpower, not the VAs.

**The name "Buster Call" does not refer soley to the ships. tThe ships are only a part of the BS. The other part is the people, the many marines that help eradicate the target. So when people say the BS did this and that, they aree not talking only about the ships.

And you havn't awnsered my question.**