When did Doffy flee ?
Chapter 793: The Tiger and The Dog
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When did Doffy flee ?
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KDA won't los from Shanks that wouldn't make any sense. First of all Kidd is Prettige well informeren on the world. Killer seems to have stratetic sense, but the biggest reason that Shanks won't beat thema is that they have Hawkins. He is more cautious than anyone else. Surely he will predict their odds before the right even starts. I don't see thema mindlessly engaging when it's close to 0%.
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Warlords have been problematic AND defeated in the past. This then immediately gets covered up.
Fujitora sets up a scenario where it can't be covered up, (so it can then be dismantled) and does his best to protect the populace in the meantime.
Not that hard.
No, that I understand. I meant his previous lack of action and depending on Luffy so much
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Laffite is coming for Urouge's fruit.
I guess urouge will join BB after this event
Also i predict that this is Laffite for sure -
Hate to say itβ¦but for a change... I vastly prefer Mangapanda's translation over Mangastream this time. The refreshments pun is funnier and more clear in Panda, plus the fact the heads are all puppets below the World Nobles is also made more clear with Pandas translation. And those are just the two biggest examples. Various parts just sounded..better imo. Never thought I'd see the day!
Edit: Upon reread there are still some parts of the Panda chapter that are absolutely horrible. Maybe a blend of the two? There's still some parts it does vastly better.
Edit 2: also Streams translation makes it unclear if Fujitora is going after the pirate alliance or not. Panda made it obvious he is but..cuz Panda isn't always reliable now I'm not sure if he is or if he just wants to be cut off from Navy HQ.
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Thinking about it, it makes actually way more sense for it to be Sengoku on Tsuru's ship. They are the two marines that in the past had most to do with Doflamingo - Tsuru chased him, Sengoku sent Rosinante in. Also, the crackers mentioned are okaki, which is the code word Sengoku used when talking to Rosinante.
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Dammit i can't see the KHA alliance losing , i mean what would be the point ? their failure won't add or prove anything everybody is already expecting that they should be utterly destroyed considering shanks' power which is exactly why i can't see it playing out as expected
Not really , in a real fight doflamingo wouldn't have the advantage of setting up a time limit to his defeat by threatening to kill innocent people which is what pushed luffy to go that far in order to beat someone like doflamingo in such a very short time
You're right bro, things aren't a one way street and usually things won't pan out how they "should" we're simply reacting how we're supposed to react before the actual event takes place, anyone who sees that match-up, even in OP universe would already write the alliance off. What will actually happen, the "twist" in the tale, is what will make it even more sweeter to see.
As for your second point, gear third was ineffective and inconsequential, as it not only was slow but was blocked by spider's Web. Gear second was fast and allowed Luffy to tag some hits but Doffy was merely tickled. So he would have to bust out Gear four eventually, all that birdcage did was maybe bring it out sooner and good that it did or Luffy may have expended more haki performing useless moves against Doffy in his other forms. I don't see how birdcage pushed him to go that far does anything to the fact that he loses the form after some time, if anything it pushed him to use his time more efficiently while in the form, doing attack after attack.
β- Update From New Post Merge ---
Luffy didn't ask for ten minutes, he needed it to recover amd he got it, just like doffy needed to flee from luffy in order to avoid getting stomped
The fact is gear 4 luffy is clearly superior to anything doflamingo has at his disposal. Not once did doffy pose a threat to gear 4 luffy as evidenced by his twenty minutes of running away
This was a decisive victory and a clear demonstration of luffy's power. He won't be able to take kaido single handedly but the alliance has got a good shot
He didn't ask Doffy, he asked the announcer. Plus I've already said gear fourth was superior. If he uses gear fourth against Kaido and then asks someone to hide him for ten minutes I don't think anyone would be able to stop a rampaging Kaido like they stalled for him in Dressrosa, having said that, I'm sure Luffy will try to work out the kinks of gear four before his future battle with an emperor. But as you said it won't be just Luffy fighting him, probably the whole crew and other alliances. Just wonder though Kaido's sphere of influence is vastly greater than anything we've seen and he has a Zoan army at his disposal, unlike anything we've seen against a shichibukai thus far. I feel like a lot of energy and resources would have to be used up just to get "an audience with the captain" as Law describes it. A fully refreshed Yonkou and his crew versus a worn out enemy. Sounds like an uphill battle, of course the victors may be Luffy and friends but it just makes you wonder what ancient weapon they'll need to have by their side to tip the scales in their favor.
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shanks vs KHA, I place my bet for shanks of course.. but, who knows what crazy Oda sensei plan.. if shanks really defeated I can't accept it because it should be Luffy that defeat him to fulfill their promise. :D
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When did Doffy flee ?
I'm confused about that too.
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KDA won't los from Shanks that wouldn't make any sense. First of all Kidd is Prettige well informeren on the world. Killer seems to have stratetic sense, but the biggest reason that Shanks won't beat thema is that they have Hawkins. He is more cautious than anyone else. Surely he will predict their odds before the right even starts. I don't see thema mindlessly engaging when it's close to 0%.
Haha! That's actually true, Hawkins sees the reaper in his cards and decides to run away, Apoo does the same and only Captain Kid is leftβ¦
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I concur they only have a shot bc of Hawkins. Dude is low key BA
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The thing is: If Luffy takes down Kaidou, he will become a Yonkou? Law will retain his Shichibukai title?
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The thing is: If Luffy takes down Kaidou, he will become a Yonkou? Law will retain his Shichibukai title?
Law's life goal after Corazon's death was to seek vengeance for him and since Strawhat-ya allowed him to fulfil that particular dream for him and get some closure I think he'll happily let Luffy be Yonkou before he does. Yonkou isn't a title awarded by the WG or the Marines, it's something that's attained when you have a lot of support from a clump of territories or when you're singled out as being one of the strongest threats on the sea. At least that's how it looks. Law won't get warlord status back after his part in making the marines look incompetent.
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The thing is: If Luffy takes down Kaidou, he will become a Yonkou? Law will retain his Shichibukai title?
You don't become a Yonkou by defeating a Yonkou!
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Actually, I disagree, Streams translation makes it clear Fujitora is giving the finger to Akainu
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As for your second point, gear third was ineffective and inconsequential, as it not only was slow but was blocked by spider's Web. Gear second was fast and allowed Luffy to tag some hits but Doffy was merely tickled. So he would have to bust out Gear four eventually, all that birdcage did was maybe bring it out sooner and good that it did or Luffy may have expended more haki performing useless moves against Doffy in his other forms. I don't see how birdcage pushed him to go that far does anything to the fact that he loses the form after some time, if anything it pushed him to use his time more efficiently while in the form, doing attack after attack.
first normally two fighters on the same or close level would've gone at it for days until the winner is decided , having this being reduced into 30 minutes puts much more stress on the party that wants to win within that time limit
it's like a runner starting up the race using his best performance and ending up losing efficiency thus wasting all his energy before reaching the end line .secondly there could've been other strategies for luffy to use in a better situation , as rayleigh suggested that luffy should look for a way of defeating those animals other than gear 4th as it puts much stress on his body , luffy could've already figured this out and came up with something not as strong but doesn't put stress on body tho using it against doflamingo in such a situation wouldn't be as efficient
point here there's no saying what would've happened were there no time limit , the fact remains that by bringing innocent people into the equation and using them to manipulate the conditions of a fight doesn't make it fair in the first place so luffy using up 10 minutes to rest doesn't really change the fairness of the fight nor does it automatically label him defeated
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Sunny team better hope Capone Bege is a friend.
He is another of Oda's broken DF powers collection that you're not going to stand a chance again't him.
If pre ts the guy could shrink anything close to him to ant size and place it in his body, I imagine after 2 years guy could make a room around himself, like Law, and anything in that room shrinks to ants size, goes in his body and he takes them to Big Mom, ship too.
Hope Oda doesn't go that way.
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I don't know if making an enemy genius doctor enter your body would be the smartest route. Chopper could think of a thousand ways to wreck Capone from the inside, I guess.
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@.access:
I don't know if making an enemy genius doctor enter your body would be the smartest route. Chopper could think of a thousand ways to wreck Capone from the inside, I guess.
I imagine he has some control over it and choose who to shrink, or just get CC before that. I think his body will be like a huge building full of traps and shit, his men that Sanji and team would have to worry about. And won't be as simple as wreck him from the inside.
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I think mini Sanji could still take down Capone.
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You don't become a Yonkou by defeating a Yonkou!
Blackbeard? Its only reasonable that if you defeat a yoonko you are considered above them hence a new yonko.
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@jabso:
Blackbeard? Its only reasonable that if you defeat a yoonko you are considered above them hence a new yonko.
To be an emperor you should have someone to rule, Blackbeard knew the territories conquered by Whitebeard and after his death knew exactly how to reconquer them easily. You can defeat a yonko but that should not mean that you will be the new one by default if you can't conquer their old territories alone. It's the same reasoning as if an admiral kills a yonko, the admiral can't become one, and someone will conquer the territories left behind
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first normally two fighters on the same or close level would've gone at it for days until the winner is decided , having this being reduced into 30 minutes puts much more stress on the party that wants to win within that time limit
it's like a runner starting up the race using his best performance and ending up losing efficiency thus wasting all his energy before reaching the end line .secondly there could've been other strategies for luffy to use in a better situation , as rayleigh suggested that luffy should look for a way of defeating those animals other than gear 4th as it puts much stress on his body , luffy could've already figured this out and came up with something not as strong but doesn't put stress on body tho using it against doflamingo in such a situation wouldn't be as efficient
point here there's no saying what would've happened were there no time limit , the fact remains that by bringing innocent people into the equation and using them to manipulate the conditions of a fight doesn't make it fair in the first place so luffy using up 10 minutes to rest doesn't really change the fairness of the fight nor does it automatically label him defeated
Yeah fairness had been thrown out of the window when Luffy used Law's help to weaken Doffy, injection shot, shambles + red hawk combo, gamma knife. It's not just Luffy who had it unfair. Also, when Cavendish fell asleep at the coloseum he was labeled defeated, because he was at Rebecca's mercy. When Luffy fell asleep he was at Doffy's mercy. If he fell asleep in a fair fight from exhaustion he'd be dead, there's no disputing that.
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Yeah fairness had been thrown out of the window when Luffy used Law's help to weaken Doffy, injection shot, shambles + red hawk combo, gamma knife. It's not just Luffy who had it unfair. Also, when Cavendish fell asleep at the coloseum he was labeled defeated, because he was at Rebecca's mercy. When Luffy fell asleep he was at Doffy's mercy. If he fell asleep in a fair fight from exhaustion he'd be dead, there's no disputing that.
yes , but i'll have to mention that doflamingo wasn't alone when they tag teamed him at first he was teaming with trebol so you can't call it unfair despite his uselessness , and luffy was conveniently weakened by bellamy just before the fight
the collosseium fights were bounded by rules and conditions , this fight had no rules and the conditions were manipulated by doflamingo
as i explained luffy only needed to rest because of these conditions
if you want it a real fight were luffy doesn't get help from others you should also consider leaving the innocent people out of it -
It's not like the the Yonkou need to be "yon". They are not a formal group like the Shichibukai, nothing is keeping a fifth person from claiming some territories left unprotected/conquering some that belong to the emperor thus becoming a fifth emperor.
By the same logic, if one of the Yonkou is defeated, the other three could claim his/her territories and we would have just three emperors (Sankou?). It isn't imperative for a new forth person rising to fill the former place as if the emperors HAS to be four. -
So did Fujitora more or less get himself fired? He won't be allowed back unless he gets Luffy and Law, so he just won't get them.
This reminds of BB and how he used and discarded the marines like the useless tissue papers they are.
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I really can't wait to read powermanga's version of this chapter.
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yes , but i'll have to mention that doflamingo wasn't alone when they tag teamed him at first he was teaming with trebol so you can't call it unfair despite his uselessness , and luffy was conveniently weakened by bellamy just before the fight
the collosseium fights were bounded by rules and conditions , this fight had no rules and the conditions were manipulated by doflamingo
as i explained luffy only needed to rest because of these conditions
if you want it a real fight were luffy doesn't get help from others you should also consider leaving the innocent people out of itThat doesn't really support your statement if he was useless
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My bet is on KHA alliance. Even in gears 2 and 3 doffy was no threat to luffy, hardly touched luffy, croc and lucci and blackbeard did way more to luffy than doflamingo. Who do people think they are watching, professional fighters, or PIRATES? Its a battle, with goals in mind, luffy clearly won, because doflamingo was too weak.
Mr Aohije, it might not be clear or in plain view, but since its only suggestive that its Law and Luffy, im going to go the minority way and say it just might be swirlyhats, taking out any ship of any yonko is definantly doing well in the world imo. the swirlyhats are part of the crew anyway.
It hurts my ear people saying Fujitora is upgraded smoker, smoker has a big part, we learned about devilfruit awakening, we see, Smoker has the desire for more power and he is on his way to Vegapunk. Surely vegapunk can educate him a little. I think smoker will only get stonger from here on, punk hazard is to him what marineford was to luffy. Vergo is to him what Kizaru was to luffy, conviction and courage is not enough, you need power!
Also, people are so bias, they expect luffy to win, and kid who has more fire power in terms of crews is given no chance, even suggesting alliance with blackbeard. As strong as blackbeard might be, i don't see him leaving luffy and kid far behind in strenght.
So Ap forum, can we have a wager like fujitora, my dice is on kid, not like we know their plan or goal as yet, just their target. Have any body asked whats in it for hawkins and apoo( who likes poking dragons and running away)? -
@.access:
It's not like the the Yonkou need to be "yon". They are not a formal group like the Shichibukai, nothing is keeping a fifth person from claiming some territories left unprotected/conquering some that belong to the emperor thus becoming a fifth emperor.
By the same logic, if one of the Yonkou is defeated, the other three could claim his/her territories and we would have just three emperors (Sankou?). It isn't imperative for a new forth person rising to fill the former place as if the emperors HAS to be four.I get what you're saying but i think it's just how it is, same reason there always seems to be 7 warlords and not 8,9 etc.
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probably several ones,but only one big ship..and the panel we aw before capone definitely depicts a side of big mom main ship.
yea? So where did Capone and crew come from? If they were on the ship, why allow the others to be beaten before moving on sanji and co? That would also suggest that they were always on that ship since fishman, also there is no way Bigmom is on that ship. But if they were, would Capone or any of the worst generation be subordinate to the subordinate of another pirate. Im sure he would captain his own crew. Also why would he need to communicate and find out this info via den den mushi? So when you say main ship, i dunno, whitebeard had 3 to 4 ships that was very reminiscent of the moby dick soβ¦..
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Can I have a link to all the different translations, that last page is so unclear?
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So did Fujitora more or less get himself fired? He won't be allowed back unless he gets Luffy and Law, so he just won't get them.
This reminds of BB and how he used and discarded the marines like the useless tissue papers they are.
I imagine Fujitora will hunt them down, but since him capturing them is out of the question, he could take someone else instead. If Fujitora bringS defeated Big mom instead(after luffy defeats her) Akainu could forgive him for bringing a yonkou. Big mom is unlikely to die if Law and Luffy take her down.
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@LordEnel:
Can I have a link to all the different translations, that last page is so unclear?
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The marine goes after the fleeing pirates of Dressrosa, and trips over Burgess's unconscious body. Walla!!!
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That doesn't really support your statement if he was useless
He wasn't, though. The fact that Law focused attacks on him mean Doula had more breathing room to do stuff.
It's wrong to use a 1v1 mentality of the fight when it actually started as a 2v3, with Bellamy weakening Luffy and Trebol helping Doula in dealing with Law.
It wasn't a fair fight from the start.
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It's the same reasoning as if an admiral kills a yonko, the admiral can't become one, and someone will conquer the territories left behind
You chose a marine of all, those are excluded to begin with, but we are talking about a sea full of pirates.
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You chose a marine of all, those are excluded to begin with, but we are talking about a sea full of pirates.
You need to conquer territories and all that stuff in order to be an Emperor.
Blackbeard himself wasn't considered an Emperor immediately after killing Whitebeard. That was said to be only a recent thing.
The tendency, however, is for the Emperor system to disappear, or at least become broader instead of concentrated at the hands of only 4 people.
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I never disagreed on that, just that the example of a winner being a marine made no sense to begin with, if we are talking about that particular topic. To even face the Emperor one would have to conquer some bigger portions of the territory to get him out of his safety zone or in Shanks case, just find him. :P
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Luffy was technically defeated as soon as he asked for 10 minutes. In what real fight to the death would the opponent give their enemy a 10 minute breather? No real fight that I can think of.
If Doflamingo's attack that put Luffy down(knocking him unconscious) then I would really believe that Doflamingo beat Luffy, the backlash of Luffy's Gear 4th put him down
G4th Luffy outclassed Doflamingo in all every aspects
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I wonder what are the chances of the mysterious person being Enel. I mean, it has to be someone Urouge knows (Enel and Urouge have the same homeland if I'm not mistaking). Also, it has to be meaningful to the reader (imagine it being someone who has yet to be introduced lol). Well, it could be some kind of red herring but in my opinion that's not very likely.
If the strange person is in fact Enel, I want to know how Enel will react to a large amount of people being stronger than him. I mean, he has been living on a cloud literally like a god for years. Then he sets off to the moon, comes back and is confronted with Yonko and their crews, strong rookies, etc. I hope his skills will be more polished as his fruit and abilities actually have an enormous potential. I can't wait to see when he's going to tie back into the story.
It would be interesting if he came back, though of course motivation why would play a big role. I can't think of any reason for that myself.
Unless, of course, it's someone else who reached the sky island, simply to meet Urouge there. Enel is more interesting option, but I wonder if Oda can reincorporate him into the storyline at all, considering he send him off pretty definitely. Remember, Enel is one person in the series whose dream actually came true. One does wonder if he would be willing to turn his back on that.
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@Go:
It would be interesting if he came back, though of course motivation why would play a big role. I can't think of any reason for that myself.
Unless, of course, it's someone else who reached the sky island, simply to meet Urouge there. Enel is more interesting option, but I wonder if Oda can reincorporate him into the storyline at all, considering he send him off pretty definitely. Remember, Enel is one person in the series whose dream actually came true. One does wonder if he would be willing to turn his back on that.
I remember Oda saying that Enel had more ambitions, which implies a return sooner or later.
Probably he learned about something great through the moon drawings and now he wants it.
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I remember Oda saying that Enel had more ambitions, which implies a return sooner or later.
Probably he learned about something great through the moon drawings and now he wants it.
Or, if the theories about moon people being driven there at there very beginning of World Goverment by World Nobles are correct, he might have learned of their existence and went "What!? There can only be one god!"
Of course, following this principle, there is only one person fit to be his archnemesis: Great Usopp.
I believe in rubber bands!
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He wasn't, though. The fact that Law focused attacks on him mean Doula had more breathing room to do stuff.
It's wrong to use a 1v1 mentality of the fight when it actually started as a 2v3, with Bellamy weakening Luffy and Trebol helping Doula in dealing with Law.
It wasn't a fair fight from the start.
Law attacking Doffy was never a concern because Law had been outclassed, physically, mentally, everything-ly before he even got to his room. So my argument has nothing to do with Law, he's showing was pathetic the moment he screamed "dammit!" when he realized he failed and was staring down the barrel of a gun.
I'm not for the 1v1 fights or saying there should be honor in a fight, but my point simply stemmed from this chapter about the difficulties two brats went through to defeat a shichibukai and then we have these four other idiots that appear to be biting off more than they can chew. Can they pull it off? Based on all the facts before us and not knowing of their actual plans for this future encounter I would always give the answer a resounding no. That's me taking the scene at face value. My opinions will of course change when more is revealed, or it may just stay the same if their plan is simply to barge in all gung-ho. We shall see.
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If Doflamingo's attack that put Luffy down(knocking him unconscious) then I would really believe that Doflamingo beat Luffy, the backlash of Luffy's Gear 4th put him down
G4th Luffy outclassed Doflamingo in all every aspects
Welcome late to the party, no one's arguing that Luffy didn't beat him or that Doffy defeated Luffy. The argument is actually about a different set of circumstances that never happened because of plot reasons. When someone blows their load early and are left limp and useless they are of no use to a fight especially if the person they used it against was not affected to a substantial degree, rendering them defeated if the other person still has means to finish them off in their then vulnerable state. As for gear fourth, you did in fact walk in late because that has also been stated by me to have been superior.
(I'm not even sure what we're talking about anymore)
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G4th Luffy outclassed Doflamingo in all every aspects
This can easily degrade into a 1x1 thread, so I will try to avoid this subject as much as possible, but just one thing:
- Yes, G4!Luffy is WAY stronger and faster than Doffy. Problem is, it is a single hit technique and a single attack from it was not enough to defeat Doflamingo. So in the end Luffy was still on the ground unnable to move and Doflamingo was fine and ready to kill him. The fight would have ended there if a third part did not saved Luffy's life and gave him time to restore his energies so he could start the fight again. So I have to agree with the guy saying that Luffy technically lost in that moment. Regardless his overwhelming power, G4 was too short lived to actually be able to give him a victory in a regular fight against Doflamingo. People focus too much on strength and speed and ignore another key aspect: endurance - and Doffy's endurance is monstrous (enough to surpass Luffy despite the later trumping in the other areas).
Once Luffy manages to make G4 last longer, on the other hand, things will be different.
- Yes, G4!Luffy is WAY stronger and faster than Doffy. Problem is, it is a single hit technique and a single attack from it was not enough to defeat Doflamingo. So in the end Luffy was still on the ground unnable to move and Doflamingo was fine and ready to kill him. The fight would have ended there if a third part did not saved Luffy's life and gave him time to restore his energies so he could start the fight again. So I have to agree with the guy saying that Luffy technically lost in that moment. Regardless his overwhelming power, G4 was too short lived to actually be able to give him a victory in a regular fight against Doflamingo. People focus too much on strength and speed and ignore another key aspect: endurance - and Doffy's endurance is monstrous (enough to surpass Luffy despite the later trumping in the other areas).
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To be an emperor you should have someone to rule, Blackbeard knew the territories conquered by Whitebeard and after his death knew exactly how to reconquer them easily. You can defeat a yonko but that should not mean that you will be the new one by default if you can't conquer their old territories alone. It's the same reasoning as if an admiral kills a yonko, the admiral can't become one, and someone will conquer the territories left behind
well that is true but it also feels a bit weird if a person just starts conquering the yonkos territory without defeating the yonko first. While i fidnt mean that just defeating a yonko will automatically make you one it is thd first and NECESSARY step.
I agree though no argument there. -
yea? So where did Capone and crew come from? If they were on the ship, why allow the others to be beaten before moving on sanji and co? That would also suggest that they were always on that ship since fishman, also there is no way Bigmom is on that ship. But if they were, would Capone or any of the worst generation be subordinate to the subordinate of another pirate. Im sure he would captain his own crew. Also why would he need to communicate and find out this info via den den mushi? So when you say main ship, i dunno, whitebeard had 3 to 4 ships that was very reminiscent of the moby dick soβ¦..
law already explained it back to punk hazard..in the new world,you have to choice
1)serve under a yonkou
2)be ready to fight against them and their organisation on a daily basis
people like kid choose the second option..probabily capone just choose the first one and never looked back
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law already explained it back to punk hazard..in the new world,you have to choice
1)serve under a yonkou
2)be ready to fight against them and their organisation on a daily basis
people like kid choose the second option..probabily capone just choose the first one and never looked back
Nicely summarised.
Pirates think they can waltz into the new world and if it doesn't work out they can just go back but Kid showed pathetic pirates that if they weren't willing to bet their lives in the new world they had no business coming here in the first place. Set a good tone for what it's going to be like this side of the sea.
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I seriously doubt any of the worst generation will serve someone else. Oda probably wants us to see all of them as the same as Luffy and if any end up serving a Yonkou, like Drake/Kaido, we'll later find out it was only pretend.
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So are we expecting someone to show us and help the Sunny team, or will they handle it themselves?
Personally I think they can handle it themselves. Sanji, CC, Brook, Chopper and Nami's a formidable group.Sanji, CC and Brook vs. Pekoms, Tamago and Capone?
Nami and Chopper will be the fodder cleanup guys.
They don't need to win, just hold them off till they find a way to escape.