http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/
New chapter, as with the last one (Mercy) I think that it's a preemptive publish to have the first view.
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/
New chapter, as with the last one (Mercy) I think that it's a preemptive publish to have the first view.
! Goddamn I love Sansa's plot. The best Stark at politics since Ned and Robb died.
It's not like Ned's decapitation, the mother of dragons, blackwater, the red weding, the purple wedding, tyrion's trial weren't everywhere.. Oh wait, they were. Only Tywin's death was keept somewhat underwraps.
I can't believe those events weren't spoiled for me.
I liked Sansa's new identity. She learned a lot from Littlefinger so she's not as naive as before.
I want to read a Bran's chapter as well. Anything else of the book until the book finally come out.
! "I'll be all the spice you'll want." :shocked: Damn Sansa, when did you get so saucy?
Jon snow parents theory:
! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCsx_OFEYH6un7-8efHOg-UL5WdQ9gLSN
! The claim is that the timeline of Jon and Dany's births are inconsistent with their supposed real parents (in Jon's case, R+L), and claims that while Jon is a stark and Daenerys is a Targ, their true parentages aren't known yet.
! TLDR; Jon is Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne son, concieved in the dungeons of kings landing (or around before he was captured by the mad king), as Ashara was a handmaiden for the Queen, so she was at king's landing during the start of this mess. Ned covers this up to not soil his brother's name, and to keep the tuly aliance intact, because Jon's claim to winterfel would be stronger than his, and Robb's making the aliance useless for the Tullys.
This is supported by the fact that while Ned feel guilty about Lisana during his chapters, the guilt is rarely directed at Jon, but it flares up when it comes to the true R+L. Daenerys.
! The Queen's last pregnancy ended in a misscarriage, Daenerys was born in the tower of joy, and all the weird profetic dreams that she has when she's Rhaegar, are of she's her father, not her older brother, that thematicaly feel better, also the weird dream of "we'll need one more" with Rhaegar and Elia makes more sense if the one more is her. The weird profetic dreams should be selfish, if you are getting them, then they are about yourself, not about your nephew/co-savior of the world. Daenerys is the blue flower of the wall, and the third head of the dragon.
! The weakness of the theory is that for it to work, then Ned cheated Jon of his rights and name for far pettier reasons than his safety, and Ashara would had to give up her child for no reason (or actualy killed herself.. a posibility), and someone would had to have the brilliant idea to give Danny to Viserys and the fat guy who raised them, safer than in westeros, but still a weird idea.
Jon snow parents theory:
! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCsx_OFEYH6un7-8efHOg-UL5WdQ9gLSN
! The claim is that the timeline of Jon and Dany's births are inconsistent with their supposed real parents (in Jon's case, R+L), and claims that while Jon is a stark and Daenerys is a Targ, their true parentages aren't known yet.
! TLDR; Jon is Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne son, concieved in the dungeons of kings landing (or around before he was captured by the mad king), as Ashara was a handmaiden for the Queen, so she was at king's landing during the start of this mess. Ned covers this up to not soil his brother's name, and to keep the tuly aliance intact, because Jon's claim to winterfel would be stronger than his, and Robb's making the aliance useless for the Tullys.
This is supported by the fact that while Ned feel guilty about Lisana during his chapters, the guilt is rarely directed at Jon, but it flares up when it comes to the true R+L. Daenerys.
! The Queen's last pregnancy ended in a misscarriage, Daenerys was born in the tower of joy, and all the weird profetic dreams that she has when she's Rhaegar, are of she's her father, not her older brother, that thematicaly feel better, also the weird dream of "we'll need one more" with Rhaegar and Elia makes more sense if the one more is her. The weird profetic dreams should be selfish, if you are getting them, then they are about yourself, not about your nephew/co-savior of the world. Daenerys is the blue flower of the wall, and the third head of the dragon.
! The weakness of the theory is that for it to work, then Ned cheated Jon of his rights and name for far pettier reasons than his safety, and Ashara would had to give up her child for no reason (or actualy killed herself.. a posibility), and someone would had to have the brilliant idea to give Danny to Viserys and the fat guy who raised them, safer than in westeros, but still a weird idea.
This seems pretty needlessly complicated and feels like it's just trying to be different. I know Occam's Razor doesn't really apply to fiction, but come on.
! The point about guilt is counterintuitive. Ned is exactly the type of person who would feel guilty about denying Jon his birthright if that were the case, but there's no indication he does. He remembers Lyanna but only thinks of Brandon's death, and never about Ashara Dayne. And why not just claim Jon as his bastard son by her? Ned is claiming infidelity already and Ashara Dayne is a popular suspect in-universe. Having a public mother would garner less suspicion.
! No, I think R+L=J is still the best theory.
Wow, lot of GoT clickbait articles today.
Martin says "I'll be going for a bittersweet ending like LotR" and dozens of articles pop up with "Not everyone will die!" "It wont be the bloodbath we all expect!" and "Martin reveals ending!" and most of them use a picture of John Snow despite not mentioning him at all.
Well DUH he's going for a LotR ending, since thats influenced him since he was 12 and he's been pretty upfront about that, (and any jokes about 13 endings are pretty damn lame), and of course not everyone will die, I don't know why anyone would expect that to be the case.
Heck, to date only one main character has died, and that was in the first book! He just throws in enough suffering and secondary deaths to keep readers on their toes.
I'm pretty sure he already said it'd be bittersweet a long time ago.
Heck, to date only one main character has died, and that was in the first book! He just throws in enough suffering and secondary deaths to keep readers on their toes.
More accurately, only one character has actually stayed dead, and some people have tried to cast doubt on that by suggesting that Robert Strong is actually Ned's (or Robb's) head on the Mountain's body. Because that's not needlessly complicated or anything.
In the spirit of useless articles, here's a bit of tautological nonsense from a while back: http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-equations-solving-the-most-puzzling-mysteries-in-westeros-with-crazy-person-math/
In my own little world Drogo is a main character too :(
Wow, lot of GoT clickbait articles today.
Martin says "I'll be going for a bittersweet ending like LotR" and dozens of articles pop up with "Not everyone will die!" "It wont be the bloodbath we all expect!" and "Martin reveals ending!" and most of them use a picture of John Snow despite not mentioning him at all.
Well DUH he's going for a LotR ending, since thats influenced him since he was 12 and he's been pretty upfront about that, (and any jokes about 13 endings are pretty damn lame), and of course not everyone will die, I don't know why anyone would expect that to be the case.
Heck, to date only one main character has died, and that was in the first book! He just throws in enough suffering and secondary deaths to keep readers on their toes.
So long as Tyrion becomes Lord of Casterly Rock, I'm satisfied.
There's a song of ice and fire book thread? Stop making me like this forum more and more…
Did anyone bought this book?
Friggin. Worth. Every. Single. Cent. and. Paper. Fibre.
I didn't expect the lore to be that expanded.
@le:
There's a song of ice and fire book thread? Stop making me like this forum more and more…
Did anyone bought this book?
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mvOvdT6mjKr662Vgxz61Tfw.jpgFriggin. Worth. Every. Single. Cent. and. Paper. Fibre.
I didn't expect the lore to be that expanded.
World of Ice and Fire is the shit. In particular I love the history of the Targaryens, the descriptions of the Nine Free Cities, and the lore of Yi Ti. Anything that includes in depth recounting of the Dance of the Dragons is amazing, though it's a total troll move to skip over the Blackfyre Rebellion. And Daemon Targaryen is an amazing badass and my new favorite historic figure in ASoIaF.
Do you have The Lands of Ice and Fire? It's ten 2' x 3' illustrated maps:
The Known World
Westeros
The Known World Separate into Western, Middle, and Eastern thirds
Beyond the Wall
Braavos
King's Landing
Book POV routes
If you love maps like me it's absolutely worth it.
World of Ice and Fire is the shit. In particular I love the history of the Targaryens, the descriptions of the Nine Free Cities, and the lore of Yi Ti. Anything that includes in depth recounting of the Dance of the Dragons is amazing, though it's a total troll move to skip over the Blackfyre Rebellion. And Daemon Targaryen is an amazing badass and my new favorite historic figure in ASoIaF.
Do you have The Lands of Ice and Fire? It's ten 2' x 3' illustrated maps:
The Known World
Westeros
The Known World Separate into Western, Middle, and Eastern thirds
Beyond the Wall
Braavos
King's Landing
Book POV routesIf you love maps like me it's absolutely worth it.
I especially enjoyed the depictions of the faraway lands. Especially Asshai-by-the Shadow and Sothoryos (damn I want to know more about Yeen), generally the places shrouded with mystery. Hope GRRM lets us visit them and the ruins of Valyria someday. Euron POV, maybe? Yi Ti is quite obviously based on ancient China. I like how GRRM puts in a lot of effort to make the cultures as distinct as possible. Makes the world more colourful and believable.
Even though the Fall of the Dragons brought not much new material to the table, it was still a fun read. Yeah the Blackfyre was only briefly written. Shame shame shame.
I also like the Iron Island's lore, despite House Greyjoy not being exactly my favourite house.
Sadly I don't have the Lands of Ice and Fire. The maps provided in the books are rather incomplete, and I think it will come handy when I want to do a reread. The Book POV routes sound exceptionally helpful.
I really want to see the map of The Known World. Btw, is the whole world round, or it somehow ends at Asshai?
@le:
I especially enjoyed the depictions of the faraway lands. Especially Asshai-by-the Shadow and Sothoryos (damn I want to know more about Yeen), generally the places shrouded with mystery. Hope GRRM lets us visit them and the ruins of Valyria someday. Euron POV, maybe? Yi Ti is quite obviously based on ancient China. I like how GRRM puts in a lot of effort to make the cultures as distinct as possible. Makes the world more colourful and believable.
Even though the Fall of the Dragons brought not much new material to the table, it was still a fun read. Yeah the Blackfyre was only briefly written. Shame shame shame.
I also like the Iron Island's lore, despite House Greyjoy not being exactly my favourite house.
Sadly I don't have the Lands of Ice and Fire. The maps provided in the books are rather incomplete, and I think it will come handy when I want to do a reread. The Book POV routes sound exceptionally helpful.
I really want to see the map of The Known World. Btw, is the whole world round, or it somehow ends at Asshai?
Ooh the Sothyros was stuff was really cool. A bit of it was shown in the maps but not much more than in the World book.
I think I found the Iron Islands and Vale stuff to be the most interesting of the Great Houses stuff.
Here's the known world:
!
Asshai's down at the end of the cape in the bottom right.
Ooh the Sothyros was stuff was really cool. A bit of it was shown in the maps but not much more than in the World book.
I think I found the Iron Islands and Vale stuff to be the most interesting of the Great Houses stuff.
Here's the known world:
!
Asshai's down at the end of the cape in the bottom right.
The Dothraki Sea is much wider than I expected. I always imagined it to be about the size of Mongolia. Thanks for the map.
adds map book to wishlist
Wow, lot of GoT clickbait articles today.
Martin says "I'll be going for a bittersweet ending like LotR" and dozens of articles pop up with "Not everyone will die!" "It wont be the bloodbath we all expect!" and "Martin reveals ending!" and most of them use a picture of John Snow despite not mentioning him at all.
Well DUH he's going for a LotR ending, since thats influenced him since he was 12 and he's been pretty upfront about that, (and any jokes about 13 endings are pretty damn lame), and of course not everyone will die, I don't know why anyone would expect that to be the case.
Heck, to date only one main character has died, and that was in the first book! He just throws in enough suffering and secondary deaths to keep readers on their toes.
This^
I swear its like people have never taken a literature class or something. He tricks you into thinking certain characters are the main characters, when in fact It was never the starks it was always the lannisters. The lannistesrs have been the central drama/family since pretty much the beginning. And we are witnessing their downfall.
I think he benefits from a story that has such huge amounts of characters that he can kill at his disposal. People are like "omg nobody is safe in game of thrones" that's simply not true. There are characters that are safe that he needs to keep alive so he can tell the story in the end. Jon snow is one of them obviously cough.
But yeah you can't just kill any character on a whim it renders your plot pointless. Unless he changes something last minute and decides to change something major. He already has it planned who dies and who lives.
EDIT: Also, people all over the INTERNET need to shut the hell up about coming up theories. The R+L=J theory is the best theory with the most evidence and logic backing it up. People are getting to a point where they are saying tyrion is a targaryan. Talk about overthinking the entire story and making up stuff where it doesn't exist.
Bran's wolf is a targaryan at this point.
Wow, way to bump a post I made almost a year ago.
The point is, no one who has been a chapter title character (aside from Ned) has actually died and stayed dead in the books. All the other major deaths, like Rob, were never POV characters.
Tyrion as a Targaryen via Aerys II raping his mom has some evidence behind it, but because it would ruin the Lannister family dynamics it isn't true.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Wow, way to bump a post I made almost a year ago.
The point is, no one who has been a chapter title character (aside from Ned) has actually died and stayed dead in the books. All the other major deaths, like Rob, were never POV characters.
Poor Arys Oakheart and Quentyn Martell, no one likes remembering their plots.
@Cyan:
Poor Arys Oakheart and Quentyn Martell, no one likes remembering their plots.
Eh, its been…11 years now? since I read FoC.
None of the major characters from the start of the story.
My bad i didn't really check the date and just assumed it was recent since it was on the last page.
And yeah i know. I was responding to the people who think nobody is safe on game of thrones. Which is simply not true. There are characters that are safe till the end.
What do you guys think of Aeogon. Is he real or fake and is he of any signficance or will he just be another person that just fails and dies. It wasn't included in the TV for obvious limitation but it might be indiciation that he is not really that important.
Also, FoC was the most boring thing i've ever read. Dance was also pretty boring but nowhere near as boring as FoC. Both had barely any plot progression and a whole lot of stuff about how tyrion shits, eats, and sleeps. It didn't get good until the big twist at the end of the book in which case I stopped caring altogether. The first 3 books were amazing though. And I hope GRRM blows us away with winds….in the future...where i could probably download it directly to my brain or something.
Boks 4 and 5 suffered from being material that Martin had originally planned to just timeskip through, and it shows. It's also pretty clear why he couldn't with the sheer ammount of nonsense that did happen.
Hopefully the last books being a bit more on outline will be stronger for it, though it is a little worrisome that even after getting through the writer's block of Dany's plotline he's still taking this long for book 6.
(Not complaining about how long it's taking. It takes the time it takes. Other similar length novels take just as long. Just would have hoped it'd be more a 2 or 3 year thing at that point.)
With the Wheel of Time now going to TV, it will be interesting to see how they will adapt, considering it is a finished series and there is almost too much stuff in them, making cuts more attractive.
Frankly Martin brought it on himself, he had 5+ years to finish at least the next installment.
Eh, its been…11 years now? since I read FoC.
None of the major characters from the start of the story.
The better definition is that no one has died in their own POV and stayed dead.
He can't write without going to ihop every morning or something. His lazzy ass needs to get off and write. And yeah wasn't it the mereneese knot that made him take so long to write. It could be that he has hit another writers block on his way to writing this book as it's huge and probably wrote himself to death. I think it might have expanded beyond what he is capable of.
and yeah, I think a timeskip wouldn't work because he would have to rely on naruto-amount of flashbacks for his characters. Bummer but yeah the TV is going without him. And tbh I'm excited taht the TV show will end before the books. Although, would people still be inclined to read his books knowing how it ends? I think so. I think there is probably a lot of lesser major stuff that won't be made into tv cuz of the sheer size.
Dany has been his weakest point in this entire story for sure. And it always bores me to death even with tyrion there it doesn't seem to make it anymore interesting. The TV show should have dany in the west by the end of the season. The books should too. It's pretty much just stalling until other storylines fit into place for the story to progress in a major way. Such is the drawback of having too many POVs.
Wheel of Time is a little easier than Game of Thrones, it starts with a much more obvious through-line in the early books and not quiiite so many subplots. Later on its more of a continuous thing, but if it gets that far you can condense like 3 or 4 of the later books into one season with no problem whatsoever… and cut a bunch of characters and subplots entirely at zero real loss.
Game of Thrones you lose a lot of nuance when stuff is cut. WoT you'd mostly lose a lot of fluff.
It would still need to go at like 7 seasons to do it justice though.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
He can't write without going to ihop every morning or something. His lazzy ass needs to get off and write.
As Neil Gaiman said. "Don't be an asshole. The writer is not your bitch. They get to have a life and not be chained to a desk."
He's been writing. He's close enough he really thought he could finish 6 before the current season started. But it's not there yet. And when he does they're going to do a fast push through job to have the books printed ASAP.
Once the book is done and out it's out there forever. WOuld much rather have it done properly, than rushed like the final Harry Potter books were.
And yeah wasn't it the mereneese knot that made him take so long to write.
it's what he attributed to the split and the long delay, at any rate.
It could be that he has hit another writers block on his way to writing this book as it's huge and probably wrote himself to death. I think it might have expanded beyond what he is capable of.
I think its just so dense with so many subplots at this point it just takes the time it takes. It's taking 5+ years for the last Kingkiller Chronicle to come out as well. It took Tolkien 12 years to write all 3 volumes of Lord of the Rings. Even super speedy writer Brandon Sanderson who seems to crank out a novel every couple months is still taking 3-5 years to do his big complicated ongoing novels. Books that are parts of complex series with hundreds of characters are HARD, way way harder than standalone outings.
and yeah, I think a timeskip wouldn't work because he would have to rely on naruto-amount of flashbacks for his characters.
Hence why he gave up on doing a timeskip after trying to write it as such for year.
Although, would people still be inclined to read his books knowing how it ends?
Sure. The books will be different. Different characters are still alive in the books for instance, and he can after the fact twist anything he wants from what the show does just to surprise people. There's also presentation, dialogue, and an infinite special effects budget in the books. They have a general guideline, doesn't mean they have it chapter by chapter.
I guarantee he's having problems trying to give the Aegon plot enough weight to make it not seem like another meaningless power struggle that's going to be rendered void by the White Walkers.
@Cyan:
I guarantee he's having problems trying to give the Aegon plot enough weight to make it not seem like another meaningless power struggle that's going to be rendered void by the White Walkers.
hahahaha. He is a master at making meaningless subplots or adding unnecessary details. I think aegon is just a distraction. But varys made him a big deal there at the end of Dance with dragons. Speaking of which, they haven't included Tywins brother in the TV show or rather they haven't shown him much. Do you guys think they will still do the varys twist in the tv show? I would imagine it's a big deal so i would be disappointed if they didn't.
And yeah that's the advantage of the books and probably why it's still worth it. I don't doubt that they are still two different beasts. It's just going to be a bit hard to get into a 1500 book knowing how it ends even if the twists and turns are different. I'm inclined to read Winds though because of where he left some of the cliffhangers. Mainly stoneheart and jaime.
Speaking of which, leaving stoneheart out was probably a smart move from the TV. It probably means she is not important enough anyways to the story, or that if she is it's not worth putting her again in the show and losing the impact of the red wedding. Reviving characters should be a taboo in literature, or you run the risk of going somewhere along naruto like stupidity.
Rhaegar is my favorite character in the series even though we haven't seen him alive. Everything about him and the way people talk about him make him sound like an amazing person. I hope we learn even more about him, and I hope he shows up in the flashback in the TV>
EDit: robby, im well aware of that. But GRRM is a professional writer and when you get on that status you have responsibilities. And for that reason I love Brandon Sanderson. That guy is a beast and consistently puts out quality work in such a short period of time.
With the Wheel of Time now going to TV, it will be interesting to see how they will adapt, considering it is a finished series and there is almost too much stuff in them, making cuts more attractive.
Wow, thank you for bringing that to my attention. I've been out of the loop on my Wheel of Time news.
I still have my reservations about a TV series like I have had them for years but I'm definitely looking forward to this. Benioff and Weiss wanted to get to the Red Wedding above all else, right? Can we get WoT to run until Perrin's storyline in The Shadow Rising, please~? That would be like S4, I guess.
I would prefer quality over quantity every time.
For a more manga-ish example, Hiro Mashima's speed of churning out chapters is godlike. However, the same can't be said about his story.
Feast and Dance were there because a timeskip just won't work.
Aaand here we present you the next book of the Song of Ice and Fire series! Dun dun dun…
Oh behold and marvel at how our favourite characters grew over time!
Tyrion and the Second Sons wrecking impish havoc!
Arya is an assassin who can change faces! Woo hoo!
Sansa and Littlefinger are taking control of the Eyrie! Shocking!
Oh no, Jon Snow died? Nevermind, he'll be back soon...
Dany for some reason is now at the Dothraki Sea! Eh, what about Meereen? To be told in full flash back later!
Introducing drum roll Prince Aegon, whom Tyrion met some time ago! When, you ask?
Sinister plots are stirring up at the sands of Dorne and the waters of the Iron Islands! Eh, why? The confused reader scratches his head.
Ooooh, Stannis the Mannis controlling the Night Watch... wait, he's possibly dead!
Cue the sounds of readers slamming their heads on the book due to the utterly wtf-ness occurring.<
Need I list more?
Without some time frame movement, the whole story would be illogical hard to continue, but a timeskip just won't work in this series. The last 2 weren't the exactly most exciting books in the series, but they were essential to the plot.
Without a doubt that is true. It's a necessary to get the story moving, i'm just talking that it was quite the chore to get on with them. I have no doubt that the winds of winter will likely win many of his fans back as there is a lot of potential for the plot to move on.
Given how there is 3k total pages left in the other 2 books. I really wonder how much story there is still left to tell even when he finishes winds of winter. Like a dream of spring will still have another 1500 pages. Holy shit.
Apparently there will be a time eventually when all the POV characters will be geographically in the same place. That should make for an awesome tv experience since the constant switching really kills some of the momentum.
Not sure where you're getting that 1500 page estimate, but my hunch would be you're going off of estimates for manuscript pages. 1500 manuscript is around 1050 book pages long; for reference, ADwD was around 1570 manuscript pages long. I don't think anyone, including GRRM, is interested in a 1500 page book, and given the criticism he received for Tyrion's meandering journey I'm fairly certain that his editor would tell him to parse it down.
As long as his material doesn't grow into one additional book, I'll be happy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Cyan:
Poor Arys Oakheart and Quentyn Martell, no one likes remembering their plots.
I felt bad for Arys, but at least he had a good time until he died.
Reading Quentyn's adventures was borderline painful, though.
Regarding the Wheel of Time series, I frankly think it's going to crash and burn. The first books are fine in literary format, and even potentially as movies, but as television episodes they would suffer from a lack of antagonistic characters
Potentially light spoilers
! Game of Thrones got off the ground in large part because the Lannisters were dynamic, engaging villains. The Eye of the World features literally no concrete villain until the final 50 pages and the first few books have only Padan Fain golluming it up. The Forsaken introduced later, like Graendal and Sammael, as well as some of the Black Ajah would translate well to television but significant changes would need to be made in order to incorporate them earlier.
Some spoilers.
I'd appreciate at least a spoiler warning, so I don't accidentally stumble into something mid sentence.
Regarding the Wheel of Time series, I frankly think it's going to crash and burn. The first books are fine in literary format, and even potentially as movies, but as television episodes they would suffer from a lack of antagonistic characters.
Spoilers about the first few Wheel of Time books
! I can see what you mean but the first season could just go all in on Ba'alzamon. The Eye of the World basically does that, too. Hopefully, we start off with the Lews Therin prologue where Ishy first shows up and have him be the menacing nightmare figure throughout the season. Along the way we get Padan Fain, Whitecloaks, Mashadar and Machin Shin for immediate peril and Moiraine can be played up as the ambiguous character that she is/was to the Emond's Fielders.
In Season 2 Fain starts to become frightening in his own way and that transformation could be fantastic on screen. We also get to add Lanfear and the Seanchan.
! Yeah, I'm hopelessly optimistic right now!
! I can see what you mean but the first season could just go all in on Ba'alzamon. The Eye of the World basically does that, too. Hopefully, we start off with the Lews Therin prologue where Ishy first shows up and have him be the menacing nightmare figure throughout the season. Along the way we get Padan Fain, Whitecloaks, Mashadar and Machin Shin for immediate peril and Moiraine can be played up as the ambiguous character that she is/was to the Emond's Fielders.
In Season 2 Fain starts to become frightening in his own way and that transformation could be fantastic on screen. We also get to add Lanfear and the Seanchan.
My concern is that the first book feels very much like a straightforward high-fantasy adventure. I'm simply not sold on a television audience's appetite for that.
Not to mention that the effects budget for the show would presumably be much higher.
My concern is that the first book feels very much like a straightforward high-fantasy adventure. I'm simply not sold on a television audience's appetite for that.
Not to mention that the effects budget for the show would presumably be much higher.
Ah, I totally agree with that. I always have to think of Legend of the Seeker. The little that I saw of that show just looked silly. Not that the source material was any good as far as I can tell but still. I'm afraid the aesthetics/the (probably) strained budget might be a turn-off for the general audience. And you know, not that many boobs being flashed in the Two Rivers.
For example, Nynaeve will take good old Two Rivers wool over fancy dresses with low-cut cleaveages any day of the week. Well, except when she's attending a party because she has to blend in. Or when dealing with those blasted Seafolk, what with them being awfully materialistic. You have to show your worth. And she can't really go to the market in wool. She is representing the White Tower after all. Not that she cares any bit about the Aes Sedai…
Anyway. Yes. Agreed.
Nice point, sex appeal in the series is pretty low. I mean, sure you could elaborate on some stuff later on, but compared to incestuous twins attempting to murder a child? Wheel of Time is tame
It sure has a lot of women running around naked though. And let's not forget the constant arm folding under breasts.
the 1500 page manuscript was said by GRRM himself. They are both very big books he said. Remember 4 and 5 did very little to further progress the plot.
And manuscripts have different page counts than books. They're spaced differently for easier editing. A 1500 page manuscript is about a 1000 page book.
Similarly, hardcovers tend to have lower page counts than paperbacks, due to have larger pages and more, and lengthier, lines per page.
thats still a whole lot of storytelling left.
He put out a new chapter today. It was slow earlier because of all the hits I guess but it seems fine now.
I know a lot of people will complain that this is just another travelogue, but the potential symbolism/foreshadowing is through the roof in this one. At the very least it's a nice change of pace from the show.
Do you guys think the TV show will include ladystoneheart.
EIther way what the hell is going to go on with her as a character. I mean he revived one of the most important characters that had an emotional impact during the red wedding. Usually reviving cahracters is a taboo in literature because it makes killing them pointless.
It's one of the things I look forward to in the winds of winter. Like just what the hell. Also, beilish.
Lady Stoneheart is pretty clearly going to be some sort of reckoning for Jaime. Their last meeting was before Jaime's character transformation and their reunion will serve to show how much both of them have changed. LS told Jaime to return her daughters and he hasn't been able to do that; instead, he's been facilitating the surrender of her brother and her birthplace. Oh, and she likely considers Jaime to be partly responsible for Robb's death given Roose's parting words. Jaime will also probably draw comparisons between her and Cersei since they're the two most prominent mother figures in the story.
LS might also end up intersecting with Jon or Sansa with very different results.
Lady Stoneheart is pretty clearly going to be some sort of reckoning for Jaime. Their last meeting was before Jaime's character transformation and their reunion will serve to show how much both of them have changed. LS told Jaime to return her daughters and he hasn't been able to do that; instead, he's been facilitating the surrender of her brother and her birthplace. Oh, and she likely considers Jaime to be partly responsible for Robb's death given Roose's parting words. Jaime will also probably draw comparisons between her and Cersei since they're the two most prominent mother figures in the story.
LS might also end up intersecting with Jon or Sansa with very different results.
I think it might mean almost certain death for jaime.
I don't rmeember well but wasn't the last chapter on jaime when Brinne goes to the tent and tells jaime that she found sansa.
I mean he is still in the safety of his army. So two things happen either jaime falls for it or he doesn't. SO the only way I can see him being in trouble is if he falls into the trap and brinne doesn't tell him anything. Or she does tell him in which case the are still outnumbered. Unless they get ambused by the brotherhood while they are in their tents. IDK.