That golem guy was confirmed to be the strongest of the three… If I were to guess since their introduction, that Vergo is the strongest after Doflamingo.
Diamante, Pica, Trebol & Vergo were all explicitly stated to be the same level.
There's never been any indication given of who's the strongest among them.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Diamante, Pica, Trebol & Vergo were all explicitly stated to be the same level.
There's never been any indication given of who's the strongest among them.
By the way, Gladius can rupture rock, right? What makes him weaker compared to Pica?
Which is kinda why it's bloody annoying Zoro seems to be having such easy time with Pica, when compared to Vergo vs Sanji.
I don't think we've seen all of Pica yet tbh.
Sanji's clash with Vergo can hardly be compared tbh, especially since Vergo was so heavily plot armoured and reserved for Law.
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@Lao:
By the way, Gladius can rupture rock, right? What makes him weaker compared to Pica?
Yeah, and Mr.3's wax was able to block Magellan's poison.
It's not all about DF Vs. DF.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
I don't think we've seen all of Pica yet tbh.
Sanji's clash with Vergo can hardly be compared tbh, especially since Vergo was so heavily plot armoured and reserved for Law.
Ever the optimist, hmm?
That's just another thing, though: For some reason, Oda has portrayed Pica as being completly incapable of hurting Zoro. To change him from that into legitimate threat would be quite jarring, in my opinion. Even if somewhat welcome.
HQ version of Weekly Shonen Jump #37-38 cover and One Piece chapter 756 Color Spread.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mugiwara_23
Ever the optimist, hmm?
That's just another thing, though: For some reason, Oda has portrayed Pica as being completly incapable of hurting Zoro. To change him from that into legitimate threat would be quite jarring, in my opinion. Even if somewhat welcome.
Lol yep, ever the optimist.
I think it's hard for Oda to finally burst Zoro's little bubble he's been in post-timeskip. Stoic coolguys work so much better when they can just say generic cool guy shit and one shot opponents.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
Ever the optimist, hmm?
That's just another thing, though: For some reason, Oda has portrayed Pica as being completly incapable of hurting Zoro. To change him from that into legitimate threat would be quite jarring, in my opinion. Even if somewhat welcome.
I don't see Pica becoming an opponent that pushes him to the limit, but will use his powers in a way to be a bit trickier to fight. I don't expect the crew to have to start pulling all the punches until Yonkou focused arcs.
Oda uses a lot of tricks. The fact that this arc is long isnt the problem. The problem is how the content of the arc is gonna be filled. is everyone satisfied with tricks like get the key to person X,Y,Z(Ace and Law) are you satisfied with the lets find person X,Y,Z? We are at 50% of the story and i cant even properly gauge the power of the supernova's, sentomauru, most of blackbeard's crew etc. compared to other decent fighters.
It just seems like Oda values the adventures and teambuilding 9/10
and showcasing fights and detailing fighters potentials 1/10
i tend to think that he doesnt even really like the fighting bit in One Piece. So What he does is show some fighters from time to time with a great character design and that tend to leave the fans with great anticipation of what is to come, that will leave the fans drooling. then those appearances dont deliver the goods in competitive detailed fights and then story continues. Shanks team's Arival at marine's ford and Aokiji arival at Punk Hazard. Aokiji did serve a purpose but not really combat wise he served a purpose STORY wise.
About Sugar there are two ways to deal with her IMO:
1)Doflamingo's Kings Haki or whatever he did when he was frozen by Aokiji
2)scaring her with something little girls are scared of(weenie, rats , snakes, bats , worms, spiders, skeletons etc.) if she gets so scared that she faints its just a matter of knowing her kryptonite(easier said than done)
Lets hope Oda delivers on the fighting tip there are too many great fights possible on dressrosa. dont mind the Arc being long but less skipping from location to location, searching XYZ games and all that bull. and more detailed fights i still havent gotten my fill of Burgess, Trebol, Diamante etc. :-) i basically think ODA is unbalanced in the covering of the story vs fights. His story telling is top tier his covering of fights and fighters abilities detailed are underwhelming quite often.
Sabo needs to watch out that he doesnt get captured, Ace was also overconfident in finding and fighting a fighter who was said to be out of his league in BlackBeard. Shanks told beforehand that Blackbeard was too much for Ace. Ace also had a high ranking in being 2nd division commander. Another thing is that in the anime you could see that fujitora's power was quite similar to Blackbeard's in the sense of gravity!!!!!! I dont know if Fujitora's gravity works against Logia's but if so even Sabo could get in trouble an admiral is an admiral after all…
@The:
I don't see Pica becoming an opponent that pushes him to the limit, but will use his powers in a way to be a bit trickier to fight. I don't expect the crew to have to start pulling all the punches until Yonkou focused arcs.
I really hate the idea that the only truly dangerous people in NW are Yonkou, you know? I really do.
And it's less of a problem of Doflamingo and the crew, and more problem of Zoro.
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Lol yep, ever the optimist.
I think it's hard for Oda to finally burst Zoro's little bubble he's been in post-timeskip. Stoic coolguys work so much better when they can just say generic cool guy shit and one shot opponents.
Hmph. I know, but it is annoying nonetheless. Like many things about this arc.
There is some good to be found here, but the amount of little and big annoying things makes it for me impossible to enjoy it.
My inner Sanji is coming out… I would have loved to see Nami without the dress covering her in that colorspread :ninja:
Lol yep, ever the optimist.
I think it's hard for Oda to finally burst Zoro's little bubble he's been in post-timeskip. Stoic coolguys work so much better when they can just say generic cool guy shit and one shot opponents.
I don't mind Zoro getting the badass oneliners and finisher poses, as long as he went through some sort of challenge beforehand. So far, Zoro is under less stress than when fighting Braham…or heck, Shiam and Buchi. Even if Zoro outclasses his opponent, a good ole' fashioned handicap goes a long way to make a fight more interesting.
Heh, to think there once was a time where a Zoro fight wasn't proper unless he lost several buckets worth of blood. I think it peaked at 4 liters vs Mr 1 or something, haha
Hmph. I know, but it is annoying nonetheless. Like many things about this arc.
There is some good to be found here, but the amount of little and big annoying things makes it for me impossible to enjoy it.
Of course it's annoying, Zoro shouldn't be getting a free pass just because his character is so arrogant and one dimensional.
Hopefully we'll see Pica using the versatility of his powers to outsmart Zoro in some way and make it a more interesting match.
Well, interesting beyond SLASH SLASH SLASH I'm gonna be da strongest swordsman!
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@Daz:
I don't mind Zoro getting the badass oneliners and finisher poses, as long as he went through some sort of challenge beforehand. So far, Zoro is under less stress than when fighting Braham…or heck, Shiam and Buchi. Even if Zoro outclasses his opponent, a good ole' fashioned handicap goes a long way to make a fight more interesting.
Heh, to think there once was a time where a Zoro fight wasn't proper unless he lost several buckets worth of blood. I think it peaked at 4 liters vs Mr 1 or something, haha
Yeah, a lovely handicap is always good for bringing Zoro down to an opponent's level.
You'd think that such a thing would be easy enough to impose when he's fighting a guy who can pretty much reshape Dressrosa as he sees fit.
Ah, Zoro blood…simpler times.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
I honestly think that Sanji is just a lower tier than Luffy/Zoro.
He's the 3rd fiddle, but it's still a Fiddle that could first chair in other Orchestras.
Of course it's annoying, Zoro shouldn't be getting a free pass just because his character is so arrogant and one dimensional.
Hopefully we'll see Pica using the versatility of his powers to outsmart Zoro in some way and make it a more interesting match.
Well, interesting beyond SLASH SLASH SLASH I'm gonna be da strongest swordsman!
Yeah, a lovely handicap is always good for bringing Zoro down to an opponent's level.
You'd think that such a thing would be easy enough to impose when he's fighting a guy who can pretty much reshape Dressrosa as he sees fit.
Ah, Zoro blood…simpler times.
What Zoro needs is a straight up loss. Especially since Luffy has been getting those quite a lot.
And I do hope Pica will make for an interesting match, but I'm not holding my breath. I thought Sabo vs Burgess was going to be an interesting match as well.
…
Come to think of it, this "Badass character makes our villains look bad" thing? Can we stop doing that?
Also, the "Our hero/character aligned with them, would totaly won if it weren't for this very convenient handicap"?
"Good" characters almost never lose straigth up in One Piece. So annoying.
Diamante, Pica, Trebol & Vergo were all explicitly stated to be the same level.
There's never been any indication given of who's the strongest among them.
Law said that Vergo is Jokers most valued subordinate. Doflamingo was using word "partner" when speaking last words to Vergo- same as Roger was telling Rayleigh.
Also Vergo was said to be Mingos companion for longest time.
Relation between them seems to be closer to what we have between Luffy and Zoro and what we had between Roger and Rayleigh.
With that in mind I gotten impression that Vergo is next man after Doflamingo in crew- strength wise and hierarchy wise.
Pica, Trebol and Diamante were hinted to be equally dangerous people so to say while Vergo gave me feeling of being Doflamingo pirates crew Zoro.
Where it was explicitly stated that seats are "same level" and what do you mean by "same level"?
The legendary handicaps
Besides against Hatchan, Cabaji and Kuma (where he would have lost even at full power) I never have seen him with a "handicap" different to the other SHs
Against Mr 1 he was at full power but had to overcome Mr 1 DF ability… But hey... Luffy had to do the same with Croc and other SHs as well
Against Braham and Ohm... He was at full power... Had to overcome their abilities
Against Kaku... Full Power... Fair fight but an awesome one
Against Ryuuma... He lacked a sword... Yeah awesome handicap, if some of his strongest moves are ONE SWORD attacks.
But post TS he just walks around cuts shit up and leaves... Nothing interesting in his fights... Even Luffy is struggling against people as CC cuz of their special DF... And this makes shit interesting. But maybe Pica will actually be able to give Zoro "some" trouble
I really hate the idea that the only truly dangerous people in NW are Yonkou, you know? I really do.
And it's less of a problem of Doflamingo and the crew, and more problem of Zoro.
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Hmph. I know, but it is annoying nonetheless. Like many things about this arc.
There is some good to be found here, but the amount of little and big annoying things makes it for me impossible to enjoy it.
It's less about only the Yonkou's being a threat, and more that enemies won't really be a threat until they get deeper into the new world. Dressrosa is barely in the New World, and Doflamingo has been static in terms of power for a while. Luffy's crew has been growing so they have risen above a number of people. Doflamingos crew live in a safe place, and they don't have to fight to stay alive, so they haven't gotten much more powerful. This arc is to show that the beginning stuff is not that hard for them, but as they travel further into the New World, people are stronger and they will have a harder time, because it's survival of the fittest. This arc is to show that Doflamingo isn't that relevant when it comes to strength, and that when he falls, change is really going to start to happen.
@The:
It's less about only the Yonkou's being a threat, and more that enemies won't really be a threat until they get deeper into the new world. Dressrosa is barely in the New World, and Doflamingo has been static in terms of power for a while. Luffy's crew has been growing so they have risen above a number of people. Doflamingos crew live in a safe place, and they don't have to fight to stay alive, so they haven't gotten much more powerful. This arc is to show that the beginning stuff is not that hard for them, but as they travel further into the New World, people are stronger and they will have a harder time, because it's survival of the fittest. This arc is to show that Doflamingo isn't that relevant when it comes to strength, and that when he falls, change is really going to start to happen.
Oda just turned Admiral into completly non-threatning entity for the purpoes of his arc proceding as he envisioned it.
Your argument might be a little bit invalid.
Post TS Zoro, or Smugface Zoro as I like to call him, is pretty much a fucking Bleach character in all but name at this point. One dimensional personality focused on fighting, stone face expressions, and the most boring fight choreography. All his fights have followed a standard, boring pattern. Let the enemy attack him uselessly to show how weak they are, then whip out an absurdly powerful attack that ends the fight in one move. Followed up with a stupid one liner. Standard Bleach fare.
I'd actually say it's a point in Pica's favor that he didn't get knocked out after Zoro pulled out his trusty "one-shot move followed by trash talk" combo. He's the only opponent Smugface Zoro hasn't curbstomped already. I'm honestly hoping that Pica will use his powers creatively to put actual, genuine pressure on Zoro. His fruit has so much potential, and I'd hate to see it go to waste just to show how Zoro is coolest thing in the manga or whatever.
Sanji's outfit in the color spread is probably a foreshadowing of his defeat against Mr Pekoms.
Vagabond Jooooooke! Yohohohoho!
Oda just turned Admiral into completly non-threatning entity for the purpoes of his arc proceding as he envisioned it.
Your argument might be a little bit invalid.
I'm not sure if using the Admirals as an example is the best comparison, but I'll try to go with it. To a certain degree it could work. For all we know, Akainu has been sitting on his ass as Fleet Admiral, which would make sense because with Aokiji gone, people were making a fuss of him going around as he pleases. As Fleet Admiral, he probably never gets to leave, so by the time he comes back, he will most likely be the same strength as before. It also fits with the old establishment being irrelevant. Doflamingo needs to go down first, and over time, all the other establishments: Yonkou, Shikibukai, Marines, WG will have to fall. While Fujitora is an Admiral, we have no idea who he really is, what he did beforehand, etc. Maybe he's to show that there are less people on the Marines that can live up to the standards of Akainu and Aokiji. Heck, the fact that such an old person was made a Admiral is questionable.
@The:
I'm not sure if using the Admirals as an example is the best comparison, but I'll try to go with it. To a certain degree it could work. For all we know, Akainu has been sitting on his ass as Fleet Admiral, which would make sense because with Aokiji gone, people were making a fuss of him going around as he pleases. As Fleet Admiral, he probably never gets to leave, so by the time he comes back, he will most likely be the same strength as before. It also fits with the old establishment being irrelevant. Doflamingo needs to go down first, and over time, all the other establishments: Yonkou, Shikibukai, Marines, WG will have to fall. While Fujitora is an Admiral, we have no idea who he really is, what he did beforehand, etc. Maybe he's to show that there are less people on the Marines that can live up to the standards of Akainu and Aokiji. Heck, the fact that such an old person was made a Admiral is questionable.
Only Oda made an effort to beat into out heads that this are not old marines, but new one's. That's why Akainu was mentioned alongside Blackbeard as two biggest changes.
It also does not fit with already established build for Marines as being stronger organisation then before, if one of their three top fighters in the field is actually weaker then before.
Or for that matter, how old do you think Fujitora is, exactly?
Again, if we know one thing about Sakazuki, it's that he believes in Absolute Justice. I think he's the one who re-instated the draft, too, which means that Akainu considered Fujitora strong enough to be an admiral, despite being a newcomer to the marines. Again, this is Akainu of all people. I seriously doubt someone else higher (Gorosei?) pulled the strings in this case. Even if it was them, the Gorosei probably prize strength, too. I doubt any of the high ranking guys in the Marines/Government would have appointed Fujitora to the position if they didn't think he was strong enough to deserve it.
Or for that matter, how old do you think Fujitora is, exactly?
The average life span of this largest species of cat family is up to 26 years in captivity while about 15 years in the wild. The average days that a tiger lives are 5477 in the wild whereas 9496 in captivity. They are mainly found in Sumatra and India. They are also facing a threat of extinction because of the destruction of their natural habitats in the world.
i still hope that all the top executive were just underestimating everyone and that's why they looked kinda weak, because they werent seriously trying to fight. but when they fight for real, hopefully they'll be able to give us the first 'real' battle for the strawhats in the new world. vergo was underestimating law, thinking he's still the kid that he used to bully. diamante and pica did the same thing, thinking that they can finish everyone themself, making them reckless and didnt use all their capability. HOPEFULLY. gonna hate it if the crew member of the person who got hyped for years turns out to be a joke.
i still hope that all the top executive were just underestimating everyone and that's why they looked kinda weak, because they werent seriously trying to fight. but when they fight for real, hopefully they'll be able to give us the first 'real' battle for the strawhats in the new world. vergo was underestimating law, thinking he's still the kid that he used to bully. diamante and pica did the same thing, thinking that they can finish everyone themself, making them reckless and didnt use all their capability. HOPEFULLY. gonna hate it if the crew member of the person who got hyped for years turns out to be a joke.
Well… Fishman Island was hyped for years.
And Pica's confidence borders arrogance and downright stupidity.
Only Oda made an effort to beat into out heads that this are not old marines, but new one's. That's why Akainu was mentioned alongside Blackbeard as two biggest changes.
It also does not fit with already established build for Marines as being stronger organisation then before, if one of their three top fighters in the field is actually weaker then before.
Or for that matter, how old do you think Fujitora is, exactly?
I thought it was stated that they were being more proactive, and that the rules have changed, not that they were necessarily stronger. My guess would be that Akainu would instate rules that Pirates get killed on site, rather than apprehended. Smoker doesn't do this since he's closer to Aokiji's ideals. I doubt that even if they are more proactive that they are going to go deep into New World territory. They had a hell of a time fighting one crew on their home turf, going after all of them in their territory will be suicide. Perhaps they have been building up power (new Pacifistas) but are waiting for the right time to strike. We have to see what all the changes are.
As for Fujitora, he seems a bit older compared to the others, but that's just me. He's a completely new face, with the power that he is using is completely new to him. He is strong enough to be Admiral, but just at the standards to be one, compared to Akainu and Aokiji.
Again, if we know one thing about Sakazuki, it's that he believes in Absolute Justice. I think he's the one who re-instated the draft, too, which means that Akainu considered Fujitora strong enough to be an admiral, despite being a newcomer to the marines. Again, this is Akainu of all people. I seriously doubt someone else higher (Gorosei?) pulled the strings in this case. Even if it was them, the Gorosei probably prize strength, too. I doubt any of the high ranking guys in the Marines/Government would have appointed Fujitora to the position if they didn't think he was strong enough to deserve it.
And if we know something about Akainu, it is that he is quite demanding fellow. I seriously doubt he would let someone who wasn't as strong take spots left by him and Aokiji. Especially if he plans on taking on Yonkou.
Sanji's outfit in the color spread is probably a foreshadowing of his defeat against Mr Pekoms.
Vagabond Jooooooke! Yohohohoho!
LoL.. thats for sure my kind of Joke 
Rather Turtle Soup being made by Sanji very soon :ninja:
Sanji will crack his shell very soon.
@The:
I thought it was stated that they were being more proactive, and that the rules have changed, not that they were necessarily stronger. My guess would be that Akainu would instate rules that Pirates get killed on site, rather than apprehended. Smoker doesn't do this since he's closer to Aokiji's ideals. I doubt that even if they are more proactive that they are going to go deep into New World territory. They had a hell of a time fighting one crew on their home turf, going after all of them in their territory will be suicide. Perhaps they have been building up power (new Pacifistas) but are waiting for the right time to strike. We have to see what all the changes are..
!
How much more explicit do you need it to be?
@The:
As for Fujitora, he seems a bit older compared to the others, but that's just me. He's a completely new face, with the power that he is using is completely new to him. He is strong enough to be Admiral, but just at the standards to be one, compared to Akainu and Aokiji.
And what are the standards for an Admiral, exactly? Or for that matter, how do you know those powers are new to him?
And he doesn't seems to be over fifty, from what I could tell.
Well… Fishman Island was hyped for years.
And Pica's confidence borders arrogance and downright stupidity.
Problem is that if everyone had a tough time, people would be pissed that they all trained and then had to go all out right away. Fishman Island wasn't even hyped because of a tough enemy, but because a number of the crew wanted to see mermaids, and that was the next place they were going to until there was a big detour that happened. I think Pica is supposed to be arrogant in some ways, and that people were overhyping the whole Doflamingo group. Heck, even Law was saying how Doflamingo was sitting on his ass all this time in paradise while other powers were duking it out and growing.
LoL.. thats for sure my kind of Joke
Rather Turtle Soup being made by Sanji very soon :ninja:Sanji will crack his shell very soon.
Well, if it's Sanji or Brook I don't mind. But Pekoms is too cool for the likes of Nami and Chopper.
! http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/08/03/o/read501ba57e4701b/img000007.png
How much more explicit do you need it to be?
And what are the standards for an Admiral, exactly? Or for that matter, how do you know those powers are new to him?
And he doesn't seems to be over fifty, from what I could tell.
Fujitora stated that he still had to get used to his powers, which he seemed to be relying on a lot, he might be more of a beast if he doesn't try relying on it. Your guess for standards are as good as mine, maybe more since you seem well versed in all things Marine related.
Part of the problem is that you are assuming that more powerful force, that everyone is more powerful. We already know there are new Pacifistas, which seemed to be a great power during the war. It's safe to assume that maybe a lot of it stands with the new models, as well as other weapons. Other problem is how much more powerful. Jimbei said they are a more powerful force for justice, but it doesn't give us how much more. If we learned they are actually going deep into the New World to fight powerful crews, that will give us a better idea. For all we know, Fujitora isn't part of the new powerful force, and that somebody had to take an Admiral spot, and Fujitora was one of the few qualified.
@The:
Problem is that if everyone had a tough time, people would be pissed that they all trained and then had to go all out right away.
So you are saying that the crew of New World veterans, lead by Shichibukai, is evidently not good enough to give them a challenge?
Damn.
Might as well stop reading it until Oda get's to Yonkou, then.
Is there something akin to Godwin's Law but with Bleach instead of Nazis? Something like "reductio at Bleach" or something like that? If not, it should be created.
So you are saying that the crew of New World veterans, lead by Shichibukai, is evidently not good enough to give them a challenge?
Damn.
Might as well stop reading it until Oda get's to Yonkou, then.
Depends on what you mean by challenge. If you mean that they should be beaten down to an inch of death and barely win, then no. I still think there is time in this arc to show that the Straw Hats can't just half-ass it and expect them to be taken down, which is what we've seen, but we don't want them to have to show off everything just to win. It's at this point in the story that it has to be balanced out with fighting not necessarily a powerful opponent, but more of a tricky one, which some of them will provide as it seems at the moment.
@The:
Fujitora stated that he still had to get used to his powers, which he seemed to be relying on a lot, he might be more of a beast if he doesn't try relying on it. Your guess for standards are as good as mine, maybe more since you seem well versed in all things Marine related. .
No, he says he is testing his powers, which can be interpreted in few different ways.
@The:
Part of the problem is that you are assuming that more powerful force, that everyone is more powerful. We already know there are new Pacifistas, which seemed to be a great power during the war. It's safe to assume that maybe a lot of it stands with the new models, as well as other weapons. Other problem is how much more powerful. Jimbei said they are a more powerful force for justice, but it doesn't give us how much more. If we learned they are actually going deep into the New World to fight powerful crews, that will give us a better idea. For all we know, Fujitora isn't part of the new powerful force, and that somebody had to take an Admiral spot, and Fujitora was one of the few qualified.
… If a new Admiral is not the part of new powerful force of the marines, the who is?
So who is the new and powerful force of those new Marines? Pacifistas? The why haven't they been deployed? If Fujitora is as weak as you say, then why Akainu trusts him? Why indeed, someone known well for overdoing things, send out a force that's understaffed?
This has all of the signs of Oda contriving things to allow his plot to happen, as he frequently does, and frankly, I find that much better hypothesis then that Fujitora is a lot weaker then the previous trio.
No, he says he is testing his powers, which can be interpreted in few different ways.
… If a new Admiral is not the part of new powerful force of the marines, the who is?
So who is the new and powerful force of those new Marines? Pacifistas? The why haven't they been deployed? If Fujitora is as weak as you say, then why Akainu trusts him? Why indeed, someone known well for overdoing things, send out a force that's understaffed?
This has all of the signs of Oda contriving things to allow his plot to happen, as he frequently does, and frankly, I find that much better hypothesis then that Fujitora is a lot weaker then the previous trio.
I'll talk about that in the Marines thread. Fujitora wasn't in this chapter, or anything Marine related, so I don't think we should discuss it here. I'll have a response on the other thread in a little while.
@The:
Problem is that if everyone had a tough time, people would be pissed that they all trained and then had to go all out right away. Fishman Island wasn't even hyped because of a tough enemy, but because a number of the crew wanted to see mermaids, and that was the next place they were going to until there was a big detour that happened. I think Pica is supposed to be arrogant in some ways, and that people were overhyping the whole Doflamingo group. Heck, even Law was saying how Doflamingo was sitting on his ass all this time in paradise while other powers were duking it out and growing.
problem is, it seems like oda himself is also hyping dofla. he got the highest bounty for quite a long time. in the war he was like playing around while the others fight like crazy. he casually chopped off oars leg and taking over jozu. it's normal for people to think that he is a monster given all these things shown by oda.
i know that being a member of someone's group doesnt mean that they all have equal strenght (buggy for example) but then again, i was expecting more. if not fight to death, at least make it that the SHs actually struggle. so far that's not the case. it's like dofla is in a whole different level than the rest of his crew, even the supposedly 'top' executives.
problem is, it seems like oda himself is also hyping dofla. he got the highest bounty for quite a long time. in the war he was like playing around while the others fight like crazy. he casually chopped off oars leg and taking over jozu. it's normal for people to think that he is a monster given all these things shown by oda.
i know that being a member of someone's group doesnt mean that they all have equal strenght (buggy for example) but then again, i was expecting more. if not fight to death, at least make it that the SHs actually struggle. so far that's not the case. it's like dofla is in a whole different level than the rest of his crew, even the supposedly 'top' executives.
Doflamingo is showing that he is strong though. From what we've been shown this arc, Doflamingo is quite above the rest of his crew. I think we will get plenty from Doflamingo, and Luffy will have to put a good amount of effort in. I meant more in general that people were expecting the crew to be these super powerful people, despite the fact that they are at the edge of the grand line. It's like if I was to go to a mountain filled with really strong fighters, and that the higher up I go, the harder things get, and the stronger the fighters get. Doflamingo is at the base of the mountain, and while strong because he has a position there, he's not the strongest. Luffy at this point can maybe be at a level a little higher than him, but either one can still come out on top.
The legendary handicaps
Besides against Hatchan, Cabaji and Kuma (where he would have lost even at full power) I never have seen him with a "handicap" different to the other SHs
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Against Ryuuma... He lacked a sword... Yeah awesome handicap, if some of his strongest moves are ONE SWORD attacks.
Pretty much Zoros entire pre-skip fight resume has involved himbeing handicapped in some way, or overcoming a hurdle specific to his fighting style.
Against Cabaji and Hachan, as you say, Zoro is severely wounded prior to battle.
At whiskey peak, every single one of his opponent is a chump he could handle easily, but by throwing 100+ of them at him at once he has to break a sweat and take a hit.
At Alabasta, his opponent is completely immune to Zoros fighting style, so Zoro needs to break new ground to win.
Both Braham and Ohm were long-ranged fighters, putting short-range Zoro through a lot of hassle until he busted out long range moves of his own.
Vs both the Nyanban brothers, Hatchan, and Ryuma Zoro was fighting with less than three swords; and yes, Zoro has a few one sword-finishers, but its always been clear that his overall fighting ability is reduced when using less than three swords. In his fights against the Nyanban bros and Hachi, getting three swords was what allowed him to win at all.
Kaku is an anomaly in the sense that he was just really tough and skilled, enough to give the fight some satisfying back and forths. Even without giving Zoro some handicaps, Pica could easily get by on just being really tough.
As for the other straw hats, sure they got their own fair share of handicaps. Sanji fights a fishman karate-expert underwater, Nami fights without full knowledge of the clima tact, Franky fights while low on fuel, then once powered up his inferior but flying enemy shifts the fight to a waterfall, Chopper fights with increasingly unpredictable and unreliable transformations as he's used too many rumble balls, Luffy fights a poison man he can't touch etc.
But those handicaps made the fights great, fun, dramatic and memorable! Its time to throw some gravel in Zoros machinery Oda, we had the Welcome Back power demonstration party at Fishman Island!
@Daz:
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Against Ryuuma... He lacked a sword... Yeah awesome handicap, if some of his strongest moves are ONE SWORD attacks.Pretty much Zoros entire pre-skip fight resume has involved himbeing handicapped in some way, or overcoming a hurdle specific to his fighting style.
Against Cabaji and Hachan, as you say, Zoro is severely wounded prior to battle.
At whiskey peak, every single one of his opponent is a chump he could handle easily, but by throwing 100+ of them at him at once he has to break a sweat and take a hit.
At Alabasta, his opponent is completely immune to Zoros fighting style, so Zoro needs to break new ground to win.
Both Braham and Ohm were long-ranged fighters, putting short-range Zoro through a lot of hassle until he busted out long range moves of his own.
Vs both the Nyanban brothers, Hatchan, and Ryuma Zoro was fighting with less than three swords; and yes, Zoro has a few one sword-finishers, but its always been clear that his overall fighting ability is reduced when using less than three swords. In his fights against the Nyanban bros and Hachi, getting three swords was what allowed him to win at all.Kaku is an anomaly in the sense that he was just really tough and skilled, enough to give the fight some satisfying back and forths. Even without giving Zoro some handicaps, Pica could easily get by on just being really tough.
As for the other straw hats, sure they got their own fair share of handicaps. Sanji fights a fishman karate-expert underwater, Nami fights without full knowledge of the clima tact, Franky fights while low on fuel, then once powered up his inferior but flying enemy shifts the fight to a waterfall, Chopper fights with increasingly unpredictable and unreliable transformations as he's used too many rumble balls, Luffy fights a poison man he can't touch etc.
But those handicaps made the fights great, fun, dramatic and memorable! Its time to throw some gravel in Zoros machinery Oda, we had the Welcome Back power demonstration party at Fishman Island!
Perhaps that's what we can still get this arc? I mean, with the power Pica has, there is surely a way for him to handicap Zoro in some capacity. Maybe be can change some of the rocks in some way to steal the swords, or better yet, make a labyrinth that Zoro must run through. With his poor direction skills, he will run around for a long time, and Pica can easily sneak attack him.
@The:
Doflamingo is showing that he is strong though. From what we've been shown this arc, Doflamingo is quite above the rest of his crew. I think we will get plenty from Doflamingo, and Luffy will have to put a good amount of effort in. I meant more in general that people were expecting the crew to be these super powerful people, despite the fact that they are at the edge of the grand line. It's like if I was to go to a mountain filled with really strong fighters, and that the higher up I go, the harder things get, and the stronger the fighters get. Doflamingo is at the base of the mountain, and while strong because he has a position there, he's not the strongest. Luffy at this point can maybe be at a level a little higher than him, but either one can still come out on top.
i get what you mean and i agree that it will only get harder for luffy as he goes deeper into the new world. i just wish that the actual deciding battle between the SHs and Dofla's crew will be a little bit harder than zoro is showing. it is understandable for the SHs to easily stomp through fishman island but this time they're fighting a shicibukai and a veteran crime lord not just some youngsters with drugs. i wish it will be like alabasta. the crew will struggle and luffy will only barely win. (i even think that luffy didnt really win agaisnt croc. luffy did KOed him but if it werent for robin, luffy would've die from the poison, so croc survive and luffy should've die)
i know that being a member of someone's group doesnt mean that they all have equal strenght (buggy for example) but then again, i was expecting more. if not fight to death, at least make it that the SHs actually struggle. so far that's not the case. it's like dofla is in a whole different level than the rest of his crew, even the supposedly 'top' executives.
well don't forget that Trebol could catch all the gladiators one by one out of this hole, drag them to sugar while paralising them with his glue and he could do that with monster such as Chinjao
Is there something akin to Godwin's Law but with Bleach instead of Nazis? Something like "reductio at Bleach" or something like that? If not, it should be created.
I guess this is Coffin's Law then.
[QUOTE=Riquelme;3289548
You know whats weird i always wonder how Ussop is able the take massive damage and still stand and he is'nt even a part of the monster trio, but to your point maybe because the damage was internal this time just guessing don't even know if Oda think of these things. Well the way I see it, there are 2 types of strength.
The strength seen in combat mostly is aggressive (could be called assertive strength) - the strength to cause damage to the environment and to one's enemies. The monster Trio are of this type
Then there the structural strength. Its actually resilience but in terms of strength I compare it structural strength because it acts akin to a building- the ability to withstand damage. Usopp has this, so does Luffy and Zoro. Sure all SHs are resilient but Sanji has never taken the same amount of damage that Usopp has
@Dohs:
That sounds not that bad but i dont think nakama power counters devil fruits.
I got better scenario. Luffy gets forgotten so everyone will wonder who the captain is…. then naturally captain ussopp comes to play. Zoro will hear usopp call himself captain and wonder why the hell he follows a guy like that. And ussopp will feel obligated to defeat sugar as captain only for hilarious aftermatch when he realises hes not captain at all.
Also i feel like its great way to show full fight of sugar vs ussopp since last time we got cheated out of this fight. More running away than actuall fight....
Law said that Vergo is Jokers most valued subordinate. Doflamingo was using word "partner" when speaking last words to Vergo- same as Roger was telling Rayleigh.
Also Vergo was said to be Mingos companion for longest time.
Relation between them seems to be closer to what we have between Luffy and Zoro and what we had between Roger and Rayleigh.
Duration of service doesn't necessarily point to greater strength, though.
With that in mind I gotten impression that Vergo is next man after Doflamingo in crew- strength wise and hierarchy wise.
Pica, Trebol and Diamante were hinted to be equally dangerous people so to say while Vergo gave me feeling of being Doflamingo pirates crew Zoro.Where it was explicitly stated that seats are "same level" and what do you mean by "same level"?
When Leo gives the breakdown of the Donquixote family hierarchy, he refers to Pica, Diamante and Trebol as army leaders with the rank of "Elite Officer".
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Then when we see the visual representation of the family, we are also told about 2 members abroad, one of which is Vergo.
He is also allocated the rank of "Elite Officer".
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We've been given no indication of any 1 of the 4 members with that rank being stronger than the others.
Duration of service doesn't necessarily point to greater strength, though.
When Leo gives the breakdown of the Donquixote family hierarchy, he refers to Pica, Diamante and Trebol as army leaders with the rank of "Elite Officer".
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http://s7.postimg.org/ds733zoij/elite_Officers.png
[/hide]Then when we see the visual representation of the family, we are also told about 2 members abroad, one of which is Vergo.
He is also allocated the rank of "Elite Officer".
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http://s30.postimg.org/864xvstoh/vergo_Rank.png
[/hide]We've been given no indication of any 1 of the 4 members with that rank being stronger than the others.
Vergo is on line over 3 Seats if it was meant to mean anything. Also he was never seated officer as it seems but he was beside that ranking, meaning that he is(was) as it was hinted Doflamingos right hand man in charge of Marines force of G5.
For me Vergo is to Doflamingo same as what Zoro is to Luffy. And even as duration of being part of crew is not always indicator of strength we seen crews like Luffys and Rogers and most probably also Shanks(guess) where first mates are
people that joined first - were in crew for longest time.
As for family top they all Differ and I think as for example Pica is not on par with Zoro when it comes to purely fighting abilities he makes up for that with his ability in circumstances where he has all rocks that he needs around.
While at same time I expect Diamante as top fighter to be bigger threat than Pica in any circumstances as he is mostly fighter that adds DF power to mix and doesnt base his fighting on it like Trebol or Pica. Thats my opinion on it.
