Kingdom

kewl0210

I had been translating the manga from the beginning, sorta using a modified version of my scripts from the anime to do the manga. Then Vendetta Scans started a joint with the group that's doing it now and they wouldn't let me do the translating. So I'm only doing the anime now. If they ever stop at some point I might try to pick it up again, but otherwise not.

And as they're historical figures it doesn't make any sense to not use the Chinese names. But I can understand why it's confusing. It's annoying to me that the group doing it now is using the Japanese names.

This is what's currently happening in the current Japanese chapters:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/合従連衡
合従連衡, meaning alliance. It originally refered to that particular war, and became part of the Japanese and Chinese vernacular. As in an alliance done for diplomatic purposes.

I'm not quite up to date with the current manga because I've been busy as fuck with all my projects though. I could try to make a summary once I am.

Mizrath

Do the events in Sangokushi happen before Kingdom?

Aohige_AP

@Mizrath:

Do the events in Sangokushi happen before Kingdom?

No. That's actually 400 years after this.
In fact, some of the famous warlords in the Three Kingdom era are direct descendants of some of the characters in Kingdom.

Kdom

From what I understand it takes place 400 years later.

FlyingKambing

this series is so good, i could fa.. i mean enjoying it for hour by rereading it.
and the latest episode

! give me chill watching Li Mu and Xin confront each other

x20a

Is Xin based on a historical character or is he purely historical fiction? I couldn't find any information on him online.

STP_PS

How good of a read is this manga? I've got my hands full with Hajime no Ippo at the moment which will take me a while to finish. But I do like to read different manga simultaneously because well Ippo is starting to get repetitive, yep, go to ring beat the crap out of someone by any (boxing) means then someone stronger appears and he goes and beats that someone stronger…125 chapters later, is the same rinse, wash and repeat formula. I hope it gets better though. So getting into a different environment subgenre wouldn´t hurt as a breather. Any thoughts?

akagami7

@x20a:

Is Xin based on a historical character or is he purely historical fiction? I couldn't find any information on him online.

I thought not but googling 信(xin) and 秦(qin) I found this japanese wikipedia article about general li xin of qin http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9D%8E%E4%BF%A1 which mentions the manga kingdom under related matters.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@STP_PS:

How good of a read is this manga?

Insanely good and it only gets better.

SSJLuffy

I know this is probably a stupid question, but is this manga based on fact? If so, how much more is there to the story? Does it have fantasy elements intertwined with the story (demons, magic, etc.)? Just curious.

All the praise I'm reading on this site is getting me excited to check it out. Also, how's the anime? The animation looks pretty odd.

MiyamotoMusashi

@SSJLuffy:

I know this is probably a stupid question, but is this manga based on fact? If so, how much more is there to the story? Does it have fantasy elements intertwined with the story (demons, magic, etc.)? Just curious.

All the praise I'm reading on this site is getting me excited to check it out. Also, how's the anime? The animation looks pretty odd.

Well, it´s the usual fictitious account of historical events. Many main and side characters existed did the same things as in real life but their motivations, their personalities, the details and so forth are fictitious. There are no fantasy elements until now and i doubt it´s gonna surface from her on out.

The first season looks really odd, i would not recommend it. It seems like the production got more funding for the second season, so it looks a bit better.

Mizrath

@MiyamotoMusashi:

There are no fantasy elements until now and i doubt it´s gonna surface from her on out.

Doesn't the whole "possesed by a god" / bushin thing that kyokai and houken do count as a little fantastic?

MiyamotoMusashi

@Mizrath:

Doesn't the whole "possesed by a god" / bushin thing that kyokai and houken do count as a little fantastic?

Personally, i don´t think so, it´s just something their respective clans explained their superior abilities, at least for me. Furthermore, i don´t think the Chi thing is a problem either. Both Houken and Kyoukai are martial artists, thus different from the rest who are fighting in the war and it is no secret that martial artist in the past and even now, especially from China, believe in something called Chi or inner energy in general which can be channeled through training, including Neigong. It is neither inaccurate nor illogical to include that principle in a fight of two martial artists.

x20a

@SSJLuffy:

Also, how's the anime? The animation looks pretty odd.

@MiyamotoMusashi:

The first season looks really odd, i would not recommend it. It seems like the production got more funding for the second season, so it looks a bit better.

Even tough it looks a bit odd (they tried to pull some Sengoku Basara 3D cell shit), it was still done pretty well.

Storywise they skipped a minor side story (which can always be animated later on) and re-arranged the story here and there, but it flows well enough that you get the gist of it all.

STP_PS

@akagami7:

Insanely good and it only gets better.

Thanks Akagami. I´ll give it a try and leave my comments on it later.

Aohige_AP

@x20a:

Is Xin based on a historical character or is he purely historical fiction? I couldn't find any information on him online.

Yes. In history, he is known by the name he is called in the start of the first chapter, General Li Xin. (李信)
We are not revealed how he came to be this family name yet.

x20a

@Aohige_AP:

Yes. In history, he is known by the name he is called in the start of the first chapter, General Li Xin. (李信)
We are not revealed how he came to be this family name yet.

Ooooooo cool thanks.

Drake

Chapter 149 PG 10 spoiler alert.

!

Man. A manga panel hasn't made me misty in a while.
I love this series more and more.

Chicken

@Drake:

Chapter 149 PG 10 spoiler alert.

! http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/8198/14-149.0/compressed/ukingdom_v014_c149_165.jpg?v=11372729327

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/obamacry_slow.gif

Man. A manga panel hasn't made me misty in a while.
I love this series more and more.

! You should have been prepared. There was a death flag a couple of chapters ago for the Bi bros.

Drake

@Chicken:

! You should have been prepared. There was a death flag a couple of chapters ago for the Bi bros.

I was.
It was still done brilliantly though.

leokiko

Why isn't this manga more famous?

It's absolutely brilliant.

knceng

@leokiko:

Why isn't this manga more famous?

It's absolutely brilliant.

it's a chinese's history manga? "grey" manga?

MiyamotoMusashi

Just watched the newest episode, the Queen Dowager was finally introduced, can´t wait for the historical events to unfold.

ShimpanzeeThat

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Just watched the newest episode, the Queen Dowager was finally introduced, can´t wait for the historical events to unfold.

is anime still packed with CGI grahics?

leokiko

Last I heard the animation on the second season is much better.

Btw, I wonder how they are going to dodge that

! sex scene

MiyamotoMusashi

@ShimpanzeeThat:

is anime still packed with CGI grahics?

No, seems like they got a huge budget increase compared to season 1

ShimpanzeeThat

nice, I will check it out then

Mizrath

@leokiko:

Why isn't this manga more famous?

It's absolutely brilliant.

I think there's going to be a few more readers from now on, the anime is pretty good and very recently Oda himself bumped the series in his WSJ comment a few weeks ago (which was also included in the english version).

MiyamotoMusashi

@Mizrath:

I think there's going to be a few more readers from now on, the anime is pretty good and very recently Oda himself bumped the series in his WSJ comment a few weeks ago (which was also included in the english version).

Really? I think i missed that. Could you give me a link please?

Mizrath

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Really? I think i missed that. Could you give me a link please?

ONE PIECE｜EIICHIRO ODA
This week's issue[in japan]includes the manga Kingdom, I've read all the volumes. It's manly and awesome!

I think it was in the May 13 Issue of the English shonen jump.

Edit: By the way is Kingdom a weekly or a monthly serial?

kouch_lee

This manga is sooo good. It might even be good for your health.

Among my favorites right now.

MiyamotoMusashi

@Aohige_AP:

Yes. In history, he is known by the name he is called in the start of the first chapter, General Li Xin. (李信)
We are not revealed how he came to be this family name yet.

I have a question regarding Shin

! Historically speaking, Li Xin is supposed to lose in one of his first campaigns as general in the war against Chu, after arrogantly spouting that he only needed 200.000 men against a 500.000 men strong army of Chu. After that shameful loss, he pretty much vanishes from the history books because he had no significance to the unification anymore, especially after Wang Jian crushed Chu. Now i can´t really imagine something like this happening to the main character. Of course he is gonna have setbacks but this seems rather unlikely.
Can you tell me how much the events in the manga differ from the history or if they happen at all?

bepo

@MiyamotoMusashi:

I have a question regarding Shin

! Historically speaking, Li Xin is supposed to lose in one of his first campaigns as general in the war against Chu, after arrogantly spouting that he only needed 200.000 men against a 500.000 men strong army of Chu. After that shameful loss, he pretty much vanishes from the history books because he had no significance to the unification anymore, especially after Wang Jian crushed Chu. Now i can´t really imagine something like this happening to the main character. Of course he is gonna have setbacks but this seems rather unlikely.
Can you tell me how much the events in the manga differ from the history or if they happen at all?

isn`t the manga still running? could mean that there in no knowladge of that part of the story yet

MiyamotoMusashi

New volume cover

Kdom

@Mizrath:

ONE PIECE｜EIICHIRO ODA
This week's issue[in japan]includes the manga Kingdom, I've read all the volumes. It's manly and awesome!

I think it was in the May 13 Issue of the English shonen jump.

Edit: By the way is Kingdom a weekly or a monthly serial?

It's published in Weekly Young Jump

Aohige_AP

@MiyamotoMusashi:

I have a question regarding Shin

! Historically speaking, Li Xin is supposed to lose in one of his first campaigns as general in the war against Chu, after arrogantly spouting that he only needed 200.000 men against a 500.000 men strong army of Chu. After that shameful loss, he pretty much vanishes from the history books because he had no significance to the unification anymore, especially after Wang Jian crushed Chu. Now i can´t really imagine something like this happening to the main character. Of course he is gonna have setbacks but this seems rather unlikely.
Can you tell me how much the events in the manga differ from the history or if they happen at all?

! I believe he was present in the final battle, just hardly mentioned - and he was never punished for the failure.
I assume the fictional spin will be on resolving the grudge and making up for it in the final battle.
I don't know how to say it in Chinese, so I'll just type it out.
! Li Xin's massive failure was when they invaded 楚
He was pulled from leading the army and 王翦 led and conquered them.
(in this manga, he's the mysterious masked man)
! But after this, Li Xin was given another chance, and ended up conquering the last nation still standing, 斉, with the two of his peers as co-generals (the two young generals he befriended in this manga, of course).
! So historically speaking, he DID make up for his failure, and although the final battle isn't all that illustrated, since this manga is centered on Xin, it's probably gonna be a lot more important.
Obviously he's not the central figure in the victory in historical context, but that's no different from all the other battles he's been in.

@bepo:

isn`t the manga still running? could mean that there in no knowladge of that part of the story yet

Yes, it's still running, and nowhere even close to unification.

shadyagent

Chapter 349

! This manga is so great. I haven't any clue how the battle will end. The fight between Shin and Hou Ken is really intense and seems to be quite one sided. In my opinion, the horse fight (shin's horse biting Hou Ken's horse) was a little bit of an overkill.

Aohige_AP

It's about time that annoying asshole got what's coming to him.
Hopefully this will be the time for Xin to shine.

Aohige_AP

350
Holy mother of God

! Xin going toe-to-toe with Houken! Hell yeah!
One-armed or not, it's still amazing.
! He's come a long way.

Next chapter will be lead color, can't wait.

Purple Hermit

! Yeah, when Houken showed up in the latest arc, I was like, holy shit it's happening! And then he got his horse all amped up to fight. This comes at a time when the english scans for the manga is just getting to when Houken's fighting Ouki, so maybe it's finally time for Xin to show'em who's boss.

Porcelainpot

Quick question: I'm reading this series on Batoto, and am up to chapter 50. However, two translations from two groups exist, and they are both so starkly different when it comes to names I can't tell which are correct. For example, one calls the main character Shin, the other Xin. These pages are prime examples:
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/162672/kingdom_v5_ch51_by_vendetta-scans/7 [http://www.batoto.net/read/_/162595/kingdom_v5_ch51_by_turnip-farmers/5

T](http://www.batoto.net/read/_/162595/kingdom_v5_ch51_by_turnip-farmers/5)he names, Go Kei and Wu Qing, Lord Shinryoukun and Xinling Jun, Shou castle and Xi castle ….. which are correct?

Aohige_AP

They both are.
Isn't it like insanely obvious that "Shinryoukun" is a Japanese pronunciation, and "Xinling" is the original Chinese one?
I mean, you don't even have to know anything about either language to see it.

You can easily tell a difference between names like "Chow Yun-Fat" and names like "Miyamoto Musashi".

They're about as distinctly different from each other as English names and Russian names.

Porcelainpot

I'd be able to tell that they were the Chinese and Japanese versions of the same names if they seemed remotely similar pronunciation wise. The only one's that sounded vaguely similar were that of the lord, and though I can't say I know how either language are pronounced, it seems to me that Shou castle and Xi castle should sound completely different. That's why I was confused.
Anyway, thanks for the help.

Aohige_AP

@Porcelainpot:

I'd be able to tell that they were the Chinese and Japanese versions of the same names if they seemed remotely similar pronunciation wise.

Because Japanese and Chinese names usually don't have remotely similar pronunciations.

I mean hell, the Chinese pronunciate Tokyo as DONJING for crying out loud.

Porcelainpot

I assumed that the Japanese equivalent of a Chinese name would be sort of similar to the Chinese one. For example in French and English: Jack and Jacque, Henry and Henri, Edward and Edouard, Louis and Lewis, etc.
I'm guessing the Japanese versions of the Chinese names share the same meaning or something? Like Pierre, Peter and Pedro all meaning stone, loosely in the case of Peter. Or I may be wrong, I don't know.

Aohige_AP

Japanese have two different ways of pronunciating a kanji, depending on its usage.
On-yomi is loosely based on Chinese pronuncaition, but with centuries past since its original use, you can pretty much throw that idea out of the window.

Hell, take the word "日本語 (Japanese)", which is "Nihongo", but Chinese would pronunciate it as "Ribenyu".
If we were to use Japanese pronunciation for 北京 (Beijing), which is Peking in China, it'd be Hokkyou.
(which we don't, and I'll explain why below).
As you can see, it's COMPLETELY different, with almost no similarity at all.

When Japanese pronunciate famous Chinese cities and locations, the Japanese reading is for the most part ignored, and use a pronunciation closer to the Chinese, because well you know, it'd be rude and dumb to call say… 上海 "Joukai" instead of "Shanghai".
So it's read "Shanhai", even though that's not how you would say it in Japanese, but it's an international standard.
However, a lot of Chinese don't do the same. They seem to read everything in their own way, making it completely different from what it's supposed to. That's why they say "Donjing" instead of Tokyo like the rest of the world.
(Which, no offense to Chinese around, I find rather dumb. I mean, it's an international city, it would make a whole lot more sense to cast aside localization and read it in a way that can be recognized universally)

However, historical names of people don't work the same way - I mean, you can't expect an average Japanese to know the thousands of different Chinese names in history. So Chinese heroes such as the ones in Kingdom (Spring-Autum feudal times) and Three Kingdoms are localized into Japanese reading.
Unlike say, Beijing and Shanghai, which are universally famous locations and would hinder business transaction if not said right.

In contrast, names of famous Chinese people of the current times are often read in their native names, instead of localized Japanese ones like historical heroes. Because you know, they're still alive and it'd be kinda rude otherwise. lol

To sum it up:

Present-day Chinese cities -> Kept in Chinese pronunciation
Present-day famous Chinese names -> Mostly kept in Chinese pronunciation (written in katakana for easy reading)
Figures from historical past -> usually localized into Japanese reading
Historical Dynasties and other locale names not existing today -> usually localized into Japanese reading.

It's pretty clear-cut how they are differentiated, it all depends on its relevancy to modern day.

Porcelainpot

I have to say, many thanks for the putting the time into writing that. It's interesting and very helpful!

Aaronrules380

Yeah, pretty much confirmed to me what I was originally guessing. It sounds like the type of thing that only happens because they share a non phonetic writing system without having languages even remotely related to each other

Aohige_AP

Correct. While Chinese had a large influence over the years, Japanese is a unique language that predates the importing of Chinese writing system into Japan.
We're pretty much clueless on exact origin of the Japanese language, but a popular theory among linguists is that it belongs to family of Altaic language, likely passed down from Mongol descents who crossed the ocean to reach Japan.

The kanji writing system was later imported from China, and incorporated into Japanese - thus applying a writing system to a pre-existing language, which led to having distinctly different languages sharing a common writing system.

Sen

Heck, most Chinese dialects aren't mutually intelligible. At best, dialects are as similar French and Spanish. At worst, they can be as different as Russian and English.

leokiko

For how much longer do you guys think the manga will go on? From 351.