Voyager was an interesting concept absolutely ruined by some of the worst characters and plots the franchise ever had to offer.
Shame they had to waste a good character like Dr. Zimmerman, EMH, MD on such a wretched show.
Voyager was an interesting concept absolutely ruined by some of the worst characters and plots the franchise ever had to offer.
Shame they had to waste a good character like Dr. Zimmerman, EMH, MD on such a wretched show.
Shame they had to waste a good character like Dr. Zimmerman, EMH, MD on such a wretched show.
On the other hand, he's pretty inarguably the best thing on the show and everyone knows it, so… there's that at least.
The more I watch the more I'm convinced that Picard was a creator's pet in the first season. Every other ep seems to be him in a scenario Kirk was in before with the writers pointing at Picard while saying, "Look at how much smarter he is, look at how much more dignified he is, look at how less of a cowboy he is," And while I do agree that Picard is better, it's annoying to see a character I really want to like being executed so horribly.
Yeah, that's Roddenberry pushing his future human concept hard.
I'm more of a Kirk fan myself… Holy war time? ;) I guess much of my dislike for Picard stems from his over zealous interpretation of the prime directive.
Kirk or Picard? The answer is simple.
Sisko is the best captain.
@RobbyBevard:
Kirk or Picard? The answer is simple.
Sisco is the best captain.
You might be right, he really grew on me in later seasons.
Janeway or Archer though? Now, that gets you thinking… >__>
@RobbyBevard:
Kirk or Picard? The answer is simple.
Sisco is the best captain.
Yeah, I'm convinced I'm going to like him too. I've heard that he combines the shoot first attitude of Kirk and the pacifist attitude of Picard into a much more complex and realistic character. Looking forward to that.
@Mr.:
Yeah, I'm convinced I'm going to like him too. I've heard that he combines the shoot first attitude of Kirk and the pacifist attitude of Picard into a much more complex and realistic character. Looking forward to that.
Not so much on the picard part. Closer to Kirk then anyone else, but Sisko is still very much his own man.
DS9 is best trek.
I'm gonna say that I prefer Picard over Kirk. Picard feels like a real captain to me, whereas Kirk always felt kind of off to me. To me, he seemed like a playboy who was uncharacteristically brilliant just for the sake of being a captain.
Still haven't seen any of DS9, but once I hit Season 6 of TNG, I'll try to watch it concurrently, as intended.
Halfway through Season 4.
! Once again, this is shaping up to be a really solid season, but…I dunno. I kinda feel the writing hasn't been quite as strong this season. There's been some goofy moments, some moments that left me questioning the logic of the story and/or characters, and the season hasn't had as many stand-out episodes. But, I reiterate, it's still been pretty strong overall and we still have half a season to go.
! Oh, and with this I'm officially halfway through all of Star Trek: TNG (well, by season, not by episode).
! -Best of Both Worlds Part II was every bit as spectacular as its first half. Of course, there was no way I could have put off seeing the second half.
-Family was a great Picard episode and, hey, Worf's parents! That was cool
-I felt that Dr. Soong being alive was kind of contrived, but it was cool finally seeing Lore again.
-Remember Me was easily the best Dr. Crusher episode to date. She's still kind of flat as a character, but McFadden gave a great performance here.
-Damn, Reunion was intense. K'Ehleyr's death was even more shocking than Picard becoming a borg. Although the episode did leave me confused as to when Alexander was conceived and/or the aging of Klingons.
-Hooray! Wesley's finally gone! (well, at least he's stopped being a regular character). Nah, but seriously, like I said, I really didn't mind him much at all after those first few rocky episodes. But still, he was never going to be a great character and it was best to cut their losses.
-O'Brien, that lucky dog. Gets married to a hot Asian chick (which, admittedly, kinda came outta nowhere) and then gets an episode to himself.
-Cardassian has to be the most hilarious alien name ever in retrospect.
I'm gonna say that I prefer Picard over Kirk. Picard feels like a real captain to me, whereas Kirk always felt kind of off to me. To me, he seemed like a playboy who was uncharacteristically brilliant just for the sake of being a captain.
I've never really thought of Kirk as being brilliant so much as being too stubborn to give up and trusting enough of his people that he's willing to try anything they suggest rather than write a situation off. Picard is more aloof and high-minded and thoughtful and more willing to compromise/admit that there are some things he can't do.
Picard seems more like the kind of guy you'd want to work for under normal situations while Kirk is the kind of person that you want managing a crisis. Sort of a "There's a Klingon invasion? Eh, Kirk's there. He'll handle it." type deal.
Picard also seems a bit too fond of following the law at times - like when he was ready to let data get taken away in measure of a man, or where he was willing to let planets be destroyed to follow the prime directive - I think this happened in multiple eps.
Kirk is super hot headed, but he also seems a lot more compassionate under it.
Another thing to consider is there's young Kirk and old Kirk.
We're told (and shown a couple times) that Picard was a lot more hotheaded in his younger days, while Kirk is a lot more mellowed out by the time of the movies (and given that they take place 10-25 years later, that makes sense.)
Side note, if you ever get a chance, watch Willam Shatner's Documentary "The Captains". It's about all the people who have been Star Trek captains.
is avery brooks crazy in it?
is avery brooks crazy in it?
You know it.
All of his interview segments are him and William Shatner singing at a piano.
This is a pretty great article here http://www.hollywood.com/news/tv/55002516/get-thee-to-the-geek-star-trek-ds9-deep-space-nine?page=all
Just finished Season 4.
! Still feel pretty much the same way I did halfway through. The season was overall really solid, but still didn't feel quite as good as Season 3. While there was certainly nothing as ridiculous as anything found in Season 1 or 2, there quite a few instances that left me questioning the logic and rationale of the stories and character.
! The resolution to "Clues" in particular was really dumb. So their solution is that they're going to do the exact same thing they did before only betterer. All while ignoring the most glaringly obvious flaw with the plan is that eventually they're going to realize they've lost a day (actually, two days).
! Also there were a few episodes that suffered from the same problems in Season 2, in that there seemed to be two plots going on that, rather than complementing each other, were vying for the spotlight (I really felt this in "In Theory").
! But once again, my critical-mindedness has me a bit harder on this season than perhaps I should be, so again I'll say this was a really enjoyable season. One thing in particular I really liked about it was that this was the most plot-heavy season thus far in regards to an over-arcing story, what with the Klingon-Romulan conspiracy subplot. But…let's just it was a bit easier for me a pick out my favorite episodes this season. Speaking of which...
! Favorite Episodes:
! -The Best of Both Worlds: Part II
-Family
-Reunion
-The Wounded
-Devil's Due
-First Contact
-The Drumhead
-The Mind's Eye
-Redemption
! And despite neither of them being among my favorites, there are two episodes I'd like to mention real quick:
! Qpid- Unfortunately, I think this may have been the weakest Q episode thus far (well, this or Hide and Q), helped in no small part by the fact that Q had to share the spotlight with Vash. Not to mention, "I'm going to repay my debt to you by putting you in this life-threatening situation!" I mean, even by Q's warped logic, that's pretty dumb.
! Half a Life- So glad Lwaxana finally got some development and actually went through some kind of real turmoil. While she was fun enough as she was, this added a new dimension to her character. On the other hand, jeez, I think she might have more character than her daughter now.
! Lastly, on a personal note, I've found that through the latter part of this season, and even now, I'm looking less and less forward to each episode. Not that I'm dreading it, but instead of looking forward to it, I find myself "Oh. I Guess I'll watch the next Star Trek episode now. Whatever." Either I'm just going through a bit of a blue mood, or maybe after 100 episodes I'm finally hitting Star Trek burnout. In any case, I think I may take short break before starting Season 5.
Yeah, I think you should take a break. That's a lot of episodes to go through. We were never meant to consume that much Star Trek at once. ;)
Yeah, take a break from it. Since it didn't have a major ongoing through-plot, it doesn't lend itself as well to marathons as some other shows. It's really better suited to one ep a day, or… one a week with multi-month gaps.
Some shows with an ongoing narrative flow better watching them in one go, but I don't imagine Next Gen is one of them. DS9 on the other hand...
Oh, and you also need to see Babylon 5.
@RobbyBevard:
Oh, and you also need to see Babylon 5.
Truest words ever heard. :)
Have you seen all of the TOS films? If not, watch some of those to break up the monotony before going back to TNG.
If you don't want to fool with all of them, just watch 2-3-4-6. ST:TMP is kind of dry and just too long more than it is bad while ST:TFF is prime Rifftrax material. Search for Spock is more okayish than anything else, but Wrath of Khan leads directly into it while The Voyage Home picks up immdiately after it.
Damnit, what the hell, vbulletin?
I'd still catch five. The movie is heavily flawed, but the campfire scene and Mccoy's pain are two of the best scenes in trek
I would watch the Star Trek films if they were on Netflix (alas). But don't worry, I do intend to watch them at some point.
For now, I'm catching up on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (can't get much more of a change of pace than that).
So I've just watched a Voyager episode called "The Thaw", one of the later in season two… It was really freakin' good! Not just compared to the rest of Voyager but Trek overall. The sad part? This was the first one I really liked. Two season and one episode I can say I liked(ah, maybe one other could qualify). >___>
Still! I've got my energy for watching the series back! Star Trek completion here I come!! >:D
Voyager in general got better after 7 of 9 showed up, (season 4) and it actually did have some good strong episodes here and there. It also had a lot of bad ones and a bunch that were just eh.
But no matter what… Neelix was always insufferable.
Yeah, I seem to remember it being better later on too. These two first seasons though, ugh, they kicked my ass to the ground and have since then continuously kept stomping on it. >_<
Do you have any "favorite episodes" I should look forward to as I start season three? :) (By "favorite episodes" I of course mean any episodes that are so bad that they become worthwhile or even the slightly more uncommon actual good episodes.)
I couldn't possibly remember a single Voyager episode title without it being put in front of me first.
Once it had Seven AND the Doctor, the show actually had TWO good characters to work with, so it was instantly better.
But Harry was always bland, C'Kotay was bland, Tom a mary sue, B'Lanna forgettable and bland, Janeway evil, and Neelix an awful monster that needed to die.
Its not so much that Seven was overexposed once she showed up… its just she was the only one that had growth and a character arc. Same as the Doctor.
@RobbyBevard:
I couldn't possibly remember a single Voyager episode title without it being put in front of me first.
Not even Threshold?
Not even Threshold?
See, you say the title and I instantly know which one that is.
But no, I'd managed to forget about it entirely (and most of Voyager) until it came up a couple weeks ago. I could have drudged up the episode fromt he back of my brain, but not the title.
I've bene watching the scifi debris reviews tho. It's about as much of a refresher as I'm willing to take on Voyager, and it does the episodes in 10 minutes filled with snark and potential improvements.
Ah, well, I'll just have to wait and see! :) I think I remember one episode I thought was really good way back when. Something about a time-ship or something that went around trying to fix something… Hahaha, oh man my memories of the show are really vague. But I do get flashes of what's about to happen in the episode from time to time.
I just looked up when it was broadcast... 1998, ah, nostalgia. :)
Okay, I think that was a long enough break. I'll be starting up again soon and finish the last three seasons of TNG.
Okay, I think that was a long enough break. I'll be starting up again soon and finish the last three seasons of TNG.
Alternating with DS9?
Fair warning, DS9 had to find its footing too so its a bit shaky at the start.
@RobbyBevard:
Alternating with DS9?
As it was intended (I guess). But yeah, that's the plan.
Fair warning, DS9 had to find its footing too so its a bit shaky at the start.
I handled the third season of TOS and the first two seasons of TNG. I'm sure I can swing it.
Like I said before, its not a whole lot of crossover, but there's a handful of instances where a character guest stars, or references are made to stuff going on. It's neat.
Movie 7 definitely has an impact on things, and movie 8 makes DS9 and Voyager references.
As it was intended (I guess). But yeah, that's the plan.
I handled the third season of TOS and the first two seasons of TNG. I'm sure I can swing it.
Just wait until you get to Voyager and Enterprise. If Star Trek was Dante's Inferno, you wouldn't even be out of Limbo yet.
LOL. Who says I'm going to?
We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
And in other news, I'm one episode away from completing Voyager! And with it, the entire franchise! MOHAHAHA! Victory is mine! I was a bit worried in the beginning when it came out swinging ferociously, but once I got through the three first seasons it was smooth sailing. Not fun sailing or anything, but at least I didn't risk capsizing every damned episode.
I've already put a rewatch of DS9 in the pipeline to wash away that foul taste VOY left in my mouth. :getlost:
...I'm already getting psyched about it.
!
Quark! :wub:
Just to cheer you up, the last episode of voyager is one of the very worst morality wise, up there with Tuvix.
Aaaaand I'm done! :) Feels good to get my feets over the finish line!
Just to cheer you up, the last episode of voyager is one of the very worst morality wise, up there with Tuvix.
Yeah, it's funny how she can justify letting an entire culture be wiped out because helping would violate the prime directive. But a few of her friends die/suffer and that stuff doesn't matter in the least. >___>
On the subject of the prime directive, this series made me hate it almost as much as TNG did. >___>
Once you accept that Janeway is an evil villain, the entire series works better.
Just watched the Spock two-parter and…eh, I dunno. Is it just me or was it kind of boring?
Yeah, it was great seeing Spock again, and to get some closure with Sarek dying, but the actual plot of the episode just felt drawn out for the sake of it being a two-parte. Or maybe I was just too distracted, I don't know.
Rest of the season's been pretty good so far as well. I love Darmok just for how original and bizarre it was.
Darmok is an interesting concept… but the "speak only in metaphor" bit is weird and makes NO SENSE.
How do you relate the stories in the first place to be able to get the metaphor for them?
If it was just the Universal Translator being unable to cope with Darmok's people just being really prone to using metaphors or even just the captain being that way with nobody else authorized to speak for his people, that'd be one thing, but apparently their civilization is built around that. That just doesn't make sense.
It's nonsensical when it's specifically English translation and the word "metaphor" being used explicitly.
But scifidebris has a pretty good bit on it and a decent point. (I just now watched it to get his take on it.)
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/t202.asp
The first vid is about the episode, the second vid is about the language. He makes some pretty good points.
It'd be a little more comprehensible as a linguistics problem to the audience if they were speaking say, Chinese, rather than translated English.
Basically its like running a document through google translate. You can get the words and their literal translation, but you don't quite get the meaning, context or good translation.
Also, I'm diggin' Picard's jacket.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah, that SF Debris video was pretty insightful. It's still a little far-fetched, but I can see how a language like that could work.
Ah thanks tot hose giving summaries. Its been a loooong time since I've seen the TNG (as in when they originally aired!) I remember staying up past my curfew to watch reruns of the TOS when I was a teen (in the 80s). It finally got to the point my mom decided that my bed time wouldn't be at 10 pm, so I was then allowed to stay up and watch TOS XD, but had to turn off the tv (got lucky and had a lil one in my brrm) once it ended at 11. Guess My mom already knew it would be hard to get me asleep when the shows I liked most was at 'late' night… she already had trouble in my childhood got get me asleep as I stay up and watch the TV from down the hall as she watched the Carol Burnet Show that came on at 10:30 XD @Sarfallet:
Ah these vids reminded me that I enjoyed DS9 as much as TOS. I really liked Sisko. I remember watching some of VOY but I guess I stopped watching it before Threshold. I certainly don't remember reasons why Janeway is considered evil….guess I really stopped watching really early I do remember that some characters on it just rubbed me wrong. And that some things seem to go counter with I thought I knew of established races .... About both Vulcans (that female grated on my nerves) and Klingons. On a side note, I can't remember where I got the idea but I thought that Vulcans don't tan ... as in their melanin doesn't vary the amount in skin which would mean the race would not vary much at all in skin tone. I keep remembering a scene between Spock and McCoy= McCoy (grump as always) mentions something about tanning some Vulcan's (Spock maybe?) hide and Spock quips back "Vulcans don't tan." and then explained about the melanin thing. Like I said can't remember where its from= TOS, movie or (likely) a book. Does anyone remember that?