Could Pekoms be a Kappa or a Mock turtle? I think a mock turtle would make more sense become of Big Mom's Alice in Wonderland-like theme
General Devil Fruit Discussion
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he could be a mythical zoan - turtle god. true story
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@Superbear:
Could Pekoms be a Kappa or a Mock turtle? I think a mock turtle would make more sense become of Big Mom's Alice in Wonderland-like theme
interesting, Oda does like Alice in the Wonderland, there's his version drawing of Alice in the Wonderland in the first (or second?) databook
Aside we have seen an aquatic animal based devil fruit (axolotl), why not turtle? -
interesting, Oda does like Alice in the Wonderland, there's his version drawing of Alice in the Wonderland in the first (or second?) databook
Aside we have seen an aquatic animal based devil fruit (axolotl), why not turtle?Pekoms actually is a turtle Zoan, the type of turtle is a mystery.
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@Superbear:
Could Pekoms be a Kappa or a Mock turtle? I think a mock turtle would make more sense become of Big Mom's Alice in Wonderland-like theme -picture-
While I love the Alice books, I think it's more likely that Pekoms is based on a Tarasque:
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While I love the Alice books, I think it's more likely that Pekoms is based on a Tarasque:
! http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs20/f/2007/228/e/7/Dragon___Tarasque_by_CrystalMewtwo.jpg
Good show, very good show.
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Well Superbear 22, I told you so.
I understand your theory about water bound animals not having their zoans, like fish, but when it comes to animals that actually aren't dependent of water to survive, like penguins or frogs, they are available in zoan format.
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Well Superbear 22, I told you so.
I understand your theory about water bound animals not having their zoans, like fish, but when it comes to animals that actually aren't dependent of water to survive, like penguins or frogs, they are available in zoan format.
Yep, I admit I was wrong.
But does anyone still think that Kinemon is a Zoan?
Smiley transfomred to reveal it had a Zoan.
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@Superbear:
Yep, I admit I was wrong.
But does anyone still think that Kinemon is a Zoan?
Smiley transfomred to reveal it had a Zoan.
Im not entering the Kinemon discussion but the whole theory is that Kineon has a mythical zoan, which as we all now work different from other zoans. As I said Im not entering this discussion so I won't reply to more posts about Kinemons ability.
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Im not entering the Kinemon discussion but the whole theory is that Kineon has a mythical zoan, which as we all now work different from other zoans. As I said Im not entering this discussion so I won't reply to more posts about Kinemons ability.
This is not a Kinemon comment, I would just like to point out that every time we see a Zoan devil fruit user they transform, mythic zoans included.
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@Superbear:
Pekoms actually is a turtle Zoan, the type of turtle is a mystery.
Most likely a Tortoise, the land-dwelling Turtle.
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Kame Kame no Mi: Model Tortoise?
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A mythical kappa zoan for Pekoms? Lionturtle was good enough, but this idea is brilliant.
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I just noticed that Smiley's DF is also part of a class of Zoans.
We probably can expect a Mythical Salamander (the one that has affinity to fire).
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I just noticed that Smiley's DF is also part of a class of Zoans.
We probably can expect a Mythical Salamander (the one that has affinity to fire).
I'm not sure if we will get another Mythical Zoan with Fire abilities considering we have Marco.
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I just noticed that Smiley's DF is also part of a class of Zoans.
We probably can expect a Mythical Salamander (the one that has affinity to fire).
Well
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I'm not sure if we will get another Mythical Zoan with Fire abilities considering we have Marco.
Marco's fire can hardly be called fire at all. It's not hot and it doesn't hurt.
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While on the topic of Marco, I believe when he uses his blue flame in his mostly human form he is actually using partial transformation because the blue flame is a part of the blue phoenix, similar to how Onigumo sprouts spider arms out of his hair.
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@Superbear:
While on the topic of Marco, I believe when he uses his blue flame in his mostly human form he is actually using partial transformation because the blue flame is a part of the blue phoenix, similar to how Onigumo sprouts spider arms out of his hair.
I thought this was obvious? :wassat: His partial transformation has him with wings and talons.
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I thought this was obvious? :wassat: His partial transformation has him with wings and talons.
No you misunderstand, when he is without wings or talons and his hands and ankles are engulfed in blue flame, he is still in a partially transformed Zoan state. I bring this up because some people think mythical Zoans or any type of Zoan in some arguments can use physical powers without transforming. Like I've just explained, this is not the case. Now when a fruit grants the user consciousnesses or advances their intellect then that powers stays on no matter what state the user is in. For example Funkfreed and Lasso can hear their master's call to attack while in their original forms (a sword and gun) Chopper can speak in his original form (a reindeer) Sengoku (while unconfirmed) might have obtained enlightenment upon eating his devil which made him a master strategist. However Sengoku and Marco like all Zoans can't use their physical (healing and shock waves respectfully) powers without some means of transformation. This is based off of what I've seen in the manga I'm not bullshitting or twisting things around to fit some underline fanboyism motive.
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@Superbear:
No you misunderstand, when he is without wings or talons and his hands and ankles are engulfed in blue flame, he is still in a partially transformed Zoan state. I bring this up because some people think mythical Zoans or any type of Zoan in some arguments can use physical powers without transforming. Like I've just explained, this is not the case. Now when a fruit grants the user consciousnesses or advances their intellect then that powers stays on no matter what state the user is in. For example Funkfreed and Lasso can hear their master's call to attack while in their original forms (a sword and gun) Chopper can speak in his original form (a reindeer) Sengoku (while unconfirmed) might have obtained enlightenment upon eating his devil which made him a master strategist. However Sengoku and Marco like all Zoans can't use their physical (healing and shock waves respectfully) powers without some means of transformation. This is based off of what I've seen in the manga I'm not bullshitting or twisting things around to fit some underline fanboyism motive.
My bad, I didn't read your first post correctly. I thought the healing was just a property of his fruit. It's an added bonus he gets aside from the basic Zoan ability to transform into a certain animal. I think he can still use the healing in his human form. It is as you said, Chopper has his human brain at all times even in his full reindeer form. So I assume that Marco has his healing properties in all his forms even his human form. However, I see your point that this is a physical power other than a mental one. I see it going either way. He could either heal in his human form or he is in his hybrid form most of the time like Chopper.
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My bad, I didn't read your first post correctly. I thought the healing was just a property of his fruit. It's an added bonus he gets aside from the basic Zoan ability to transform into a certain animal. I think he can still use the healing in his human form. It is as you said, Chopper has his human brain at all times even in his full reindeer form. So I assume that Marco has his healing properties in all his forms even his human form. However, I see your point that this is a physical power other than a mental one. I see it going either way. He could either heal in his human form or he is in his hybrid form most of the time like Chopper.
He was shot by Kizaru in his pure human form and it hurt him, at this time he was not wearing seastone handcuffs. He engulfed himself in blue flame thus partially transforming because as said the blue flame is a trait of the phoenix and was cuffed by Onigumo and shot again. Another who is partially transformed all of the time is Sandersonia, her tongue isn't forked like a snake's when she is a child or a teenager only as an adult.
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Pre-Fishman Island, I would have said that that was nonsense, but Chopper has somehow been able to access multiple forms on command. There's no confirmation that it comes simply from a mastery of his DF, but it's a possibility, so you might be correct.
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Marco's fire can hardly be called fire at all. It's not hot and it doesn't hurt.
Yeah, I was pretty mad when I read that his fire is not hot. I mean..it's fire for God's sake it should be hot! But nonetheless his ability is really hax!
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@Superbear:
He was shot by Kizaru in his pure human form and it hurt him, at this time he was not wearing seastone handcuffs. He engulfed himself in blue flame thus partially transforming because as said the blue flame is a trait of the phoenix and was cuffed by Onigumo and shot again. Another who is partially transformed all of the time is Sandersonia, her tongue isn't forked like a snake's when she is a child or a teenager only as an adult.
Really? I only recall him being shot while wearing seastone handcuffs. Could anyone provide a link?
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Really? I only recall him being shot while wearing seastone handcuffs. Could anyone provide a link?
It happened here:
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The flames don't seem to be active at all times.
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Really? I only recall him being shot while wearing seastone handcuffs. Could anyone provide a link?
The way I understand it is he can get shot/hit or whatever while in his human form, but the moment he transforms some part of his body or some part of his body is covered in flames he is like a Logia and regenerates instantly. That's what the wiki says on him
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I've been thinking about zoans recently, and my own left-field theory is that Seimei Kikkan/Life Return is really closely associated with Zoans. Of our two known Seimei Kikkan users, one (Lucci) is a zoan. Then there's Marigold and Sandersonia, who are Zoans that use their hair as a weapon (like Kumadori) and maybe Onigumo, who is definitely a Zoan but also seems to be using his hair (maybe). So my guess is that Zoans have an easier time learning to use Seimei Kikkan than most people, and that is also how weird hybrid forms like Chopper's and Marco's come to be.
First time post, let's see how it goes!
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It happened here:
! http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/106/58-568.0/compressed/j11.jpg
The flames don't seem to be active at all times.
Oh. So it seems that Marco is in fact in a partial transformation every time he heals himself. That page also made me realise…why the heck did Jozu get distracted when he knew that Marco could've just healed himself...
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Oh. So it seems that Marco is in fact in a partial transformation every time he heals himself. That page also made me realise…why the heck did Jozu get distracted when he knew that Marco could've just healed himself...
He can regerate and heal his wounds, but if it is a mortal wound (one hit kill) it's over. Can't use your df when you are dead, I guess…
Now Marco got completely pierced by the lasers, chances were good that Kizaru managed to hit vital organs (heart etc.). Maybe that's why Jozu worried. Still moronic to get distracted like that, the third division commander should know better when facing an Admiral.
Here is the SBS info:
D: Hello for the first time, Oda-sensei. I've read all the previous 57 volumes, and I was thinking, I don't quite understand how "Phoenix Marco"'s Zoan fruit of the "legendary beast" kind is different from Ace's "Meramera" fruit.
P.N. CNY
O: Yeah, I know… I've omitted the explanation from this war arc, because I focused on the pacing and wanted to move the story forward. To explain Marco's ability just a little bit: he's Zoan, so he does have a body. But since he's got "the blue fire of revival" - the Phoenix's ability - wounds will regenerate, so attacks will not damage him (though there's a limit to the regeneration). In other words, the flames are for regeneration. These blue flames don't have the characteristics of actual fire - they don't spread and burn things, and they aren't hot. They're completely different from Ace's flames. I might touch on this in the main story at some point, so I'll leave it at this for now. -
He can regerate and heal his wounds, but if it is a mortal wound (one hit kill) it's over. Can't use your df when you are dead, I guess…
Now Marco got completely pierced by the lasers, chances were good that Kizaru managed to hit vital organs (heart etc.). Maybe that's why Jozu worried. Still moronic to get distracted like that, the third division commander should know better when facing an Admiral.
Here is the SBS info:
D: Hello for the first time, Oda-sensei. I've read all the previous 57 volumes, and I was thinking, I don't quite understand how "Phoenix Marco"'s Zoan fruit of the "legendary beast" kind is different from Ace's "Meramera" fruit.
P.N. CNY
O: Yeah, I know… I've omitted the explanation from this war arc, because I focused on the pacing and wanted to move the story forward. To explain Marco's ability just a little bit: he's Zoan, so he does have a body. But since he's got "the blue fire of revival" - the Phoenix's ability - wounds will regenerate, so attacks will not damage him (though there's a limit to the regeneration). In other words, the flames are for regeneration. These blue flames don't have the characteristics of actual fire - they don't spread and burn things, and they aren't hot. They're completely different from Ace's flames. I might touch on this in the main story at some point, so I'll leave it at this for now.Thank you and there's nothing supporting the notion that was brought in the Kinemon arguments that Marco's blue flames are a separate entity from the blue phoenix. Therefore a Zoan HAS to be in a transformed state in order to use there powers. So other than a nickname which is worded as having the word "of" instead "the" and the fact that every Zoan in this 673 chapter long manga transforms to reveal they have a devil fruit.
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@Superbear:
Thank you and there's nothing supporting the notion that was brought in the Kinemon arguments that Marco's blue flames are a separate entity from the blue phoenix. Therefore a Zoan HAS to be in a transformed state in order to use there powers. So other than a nickname which is worded as having the word "of" instead "the" and the fact that every Zoan in this 673 chapter long manga transforms to reveal they have a devil fruit.
And who is arguing with this? I used to be confused that Marco's mythical zoan had logia and zoan powers so that was my confusion. It seems Marco since he isn't a logia can't have a reflexive transformation like logias do (Crocodile getting beheaded by Doflamingo, Kizaru getting severed by Apoo), which is why he was shot and injured by Kizaru from behind, as he needed to somewhat transform. Unlike the two I mentioned who were attacked either from behind or without realizing what their opponent was doing who can react without thinking. Marco being hit in an organ has little to do with it, I think his inability to use his powers like a logia meant he'd have to be already transformed or recognize his opponent was attacking and transform. I do wonder since when Chopper falls into the water he becomes a chibi if he were grabbed by Blackbeard what would happen?
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all anybody has to do is hold a sword out infront of them while their being sucked in, really, nobody in the OP thought of this once. About the Phoenix thing i had come to the conclusion that he needed to transform to regenerate aswell, but since the blue flames are what technically heal him, and the regeneration has a limit, could he eventually lose his zoan form for a while?
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Doflamingo pulls the strings on the entire one piece world with his string string paramecian fruit!
He can use it to cut things or control people to use them to attack or to use them as a shield!
He has a kicking fighting style as seen in the one piece games so when his hands are busy he can still fight also he has haki so he can hit logia users!
![](http://www.onepiece.it/files/gallerie/utenti/usr-9753/Don chisciotte Doflamingo6.jpg) -
And who is arguing with this? I used to be confused that Marco's mythical zoan had logia and zoan powers so that was my confusion. It seems Marco since he isn't a logia can't have a reflexive transformation like logias do (Crocodile getting beheaded by Doflamingo, Kizaru getting severed by Apoo), which is why he was shot and injured by Kizaru from behind, as he needed to somewhat transform. Unlike the two I mentioned who were attacked either from behind or without realizing what their opponent was doing who can react without thinking. Marco being hit in an organ has little to do with it, I think his inability to use his powers like a logia meant he'd have to be already transformed or recognize his opponent was attacking and transform. I do wonder since when Chopper falls into the water he becomes a chibi if he were grabbed by Blackbeard what would happen?
Every who was for Kinemon being a Zoan but had little evidence to back it up.
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So, I'm going to a assume that Kidd can sense the magnetic fields of islands therefore making a log pose unnecessary. I'm also going to a assume that Laffitte is a migratory bird zoan of some sort or a pigeon therefore he has a internal GPS allowing him to sense the unique magnetic fields of islands.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/science/study-sheds-light-on-how-pigeons-navigate-by-magnetic-field.html -
It happened here:
! http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/106/58-568.0/compressed/j11.jpg
The flames don't seem to be active at all times.
I was going to write that he already had the seastone handcuffs on, but I was wrong. So Marco seems to get shot by two lasers in chapter 568 (no handcuffs). He's then shown healing the wounds while running in 569
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vice admiral and higher have haki if kizaru used haki he would override marco's power doing damage to him then marco would have to heal damage rather than just letting his blue flames soak up the damage.
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This shows that Kinemon is Paramecia.
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This shows that Kinemon is Paramecia.
Pretty much. There was no evidence to prove he was a Zoan in the first place.
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He can regerate and heal his wounds, but if it is a mortal wound (one hit kill) it's over. Can't use your df when you are dead, I guess…
Now Marco got completely pierced by the lasers, chances were good that Kizaru managed to hit vital organs (heart etc.). Maybe that's why Jozu worried. Still moronic to get distracted like that, the third division commander should know better when facing an Admiral.
It may depend on how dead he is. Enel was able to jump start his own heart, while being clinically dead, so Marco just may be able to heal some of wounds that would normally kill him. All we know is that there is a limit to his ability, but we don't know what the limit is. It may as well be a limit to heal only certain amount of damage in certain time period. Having his heart pierced is dangerous injury, but amount of damaged tissue is not that big, it may happen to be easy to heal. It may also depend on what kind of tissue got damaged, as some tissues may be harder to recreate than others, it may be that heart muscles are harder to recreate than body muscles (in that case even small injury in the heart may be hard to heal), liver may be harder to recreate than muscles (shot in th liver is probably even more dangerous, than shot in the heart) spine may be harder to recreate than rest of the bones (nerves inside).
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It may depend on how dead he is. Enel was able to jump start his own heart,
Ah, good argument. Tho I always thought that it was a gimmick of the Goro Goro no Mi. But you are right, it was once done so it also possible for Marco.
while being clinically dead, so Marco just may be able to heal some of wounds that would normally kill him. All we know is that there is a limit to his ability, but we don't know what the limit is. It may as well be a limit to heal only certain amount of damage in certain time period. Having his heart pierced is dangerous injury, but amount of damaged tissue is not that big, it may happen to be easy to heal. It may also depend on what kind of tissue got damaged, as some tissues may be harder to recreate than others, it may be that heart muscles are harder to recreate than body muscles (in that case even small injury in the heart may be hard to heal), liver may be harder to recreate than muscles (shot in th liver is probably even more dangerous, than shot in the heart) spine may be harder to recreate than rest of the bones (nerves inside).
We don't know the limit, but it must be extremely high when Kizaru, a freaking Admiral with one of the most dangerous logias out there, resorts to seastone gear to keep him in check. Thats why I said the only way to defeat him might be a headshot or something like that, or seperating bodyparts (beheading etc). Kizaru certainly has the means to hit Marco multiple times on every spot he likes, but it seems he realised that it is pointless to try. Onigumo's prepared seastone device is also proof that it was planned all along prior to the war, means they knew that they can't handle Marco without shutting down his ability.
The theory concerning different kinds of tissue sounds good, tho Marco didnt seem to care when he got shot. He simply moved on without care.
He is near invicible with his insane regeneration, even for New World standards. But I guess it isn't really overpowered considering that he has not much to offer apart from it ("standard" haki + being able to fly). -
Didn't Marco get shot in the head by Kizaru?
He had a gaping hole in his head and wasn't in bird form if I remember correctly (at work can't look it up unfortunately)
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Didn't Marco get shot in the head by Kizaru?
He had a gaping hole in his head and wasn't in bird form if I remember correctly (at work can't look it up unfortunately)
You are right. Means headshot doesn't work as well.
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we also don't know how regeneration is triggered. The thing that starts usage of Devil Fruit powers can be hidden somewhere deep in the brain, where it is hard to hit or there may be more than one center responsible for usage of power. The interesting thing about limitations is that, even though they exist the situation where the object is near to achieve its limits may never occur, or be highly improbable to occur (for example: water drunken in certain amount is toxic to human beings, but no one can ever get intoxicated with water, because no one can drink that amount of water).
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@Superbear:
Pretty much. There was no evidence to prove he was a Zoan in the first place.
Actually there was, his epithet is "Kinemon of the Foxfire" and in Japanese "Kitsune-bi no Kinemon".
The Kitsune is an animal of Japanese mythology with powers similar to that of which Kinemon has shown so far.
Quote from the Wikipedia page: www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsune
A kitsune may take on human form, an ability learned when it reaches a certain age—usually 100 years, although some tales say 50. As a common prerequisite for the transformation, the fox must place reeds, a broad leaf, or a skull over its head.
Just like Kinemon did to the Straw Hats when he gave them warm clothes here in Chapter 663: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/98708/one-piece_ch663_by_mangarule/11
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Actually there was, his epithet is "Kinemon of the Foxfire" and in Japanese "Kitsune-bi no Kinemon".
The Kitsune is an animal of Japanese mythology with powers similar to that of which Kinemon has shown so far.
Quote from the Wikipedia page: www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsune
Just like Kinemon did to the Straw Hats when he gave them warm clothes here in Chapter 663: http://www.batoto.net/read/_/98708/one-piece_ch663_by_mangarule/11
There was no transformation, therefore no proof. So, yeah he's fox themed so was Foxy but like foxy there's no proof that he can turn into a fox. Like Marco and all the other Zoan some animal characteristic appears when they use their powers (Blue flames, extra arms etc.) Also when someone's know for becoming an animal their nickname would be "the blank" not "of the blank."Kinemon's mouth and nose were shown when he said "poof" there was no change.
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i think foxy's surname came more from his wit rather than his actual abilities, afterall it was "foxy the foxy fox" or something. Also why would Kinemon transform himself when he's giving others clothes? i don't really think he's zoan either but all the same.
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I think Chopper's Monster Point is an awakened zoan… they see me trollin'
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You are right. Means headshot doesn't work as well.
! http://i32.mangareader.net/one-piece/553/one-piece-535510.jpg
This makes me wonder… Are Logias able to imbue Haki into their elements? Like, could Kizaru fire Haki-infused lasers?