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Strawhat Crew Theories and Prediction Thread
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Luffy Nami Combo - Using her wind power thing, and what we saw in Strong World, how about a Gigant Thor Luffy? Where his whole skeleton is inflated, and he conducts charge?
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kinda share my theory 1.Hawk eye Mihawk is also a one eye blinded man because of Zoro 2.Hawkeye Mihawk will be killed by another Swordsman, that will take the title of the best swordsman in the world 3.Luffy dies, but will be revived by Brook using the revive revive fruit, but cost of brooks life not living in the world again(This is the only way for brook to die, since if he didnt die he will be the lonely one in the end)
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Franky machine gun boxing would be awesome. (like dragon ball's machine gun fist)
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Hey guys sorry i tried this post in another thread but turns out that failed, theres alot of moaning in these forums, anyway thought re-post here and see how it goes
I'll kick us off, its a long shot but i think its clear to say that our understanding of the Zoan DF type has changed, especially with regards to Choppers DF.
I know there is a lot of speculation on him improving on the previous forms but i have a theory that at some point Choppers DF will be revealed to be
an Ancient Zoan type.my first thoughts came from when he first transformed into 'the beast'. Boring fact time but Chopper ate the Human-Human fruit and seeing as though Oda has gotten Biblical with the arrival of the arc Noah i think its okay to speculate. The number of the beast in the Bible is 666, everyone knows that but also not well known is that the number 6 is the number of 'Man' or human in todays translation. so it could be that Chopper is the Mythical 'Beast'
Its out there but could be plausible. I welcome your thoughts Cheers.
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kinda share my theory 1.Hawk eye Mihawk is also a one eye blinded man because of Zoro 2.Hawkeye Mihawk will be killed by another Swordsman, that will take the title of the best swordsman in the world 3.Luffy dies, but will be revived by Brook using the revive revive fruit, but cost of brooks life not living in the world again(This is the only way for brook to die, since if he didnt die he will be the lonely one in the end)
I like number 2. i think it would lead to a good twist in the story and Zolo will be compelled to uncover who it is. It could turn out that Hawk-eye has been defeated before… maybe someone from old Gol D. Rogers crew. I wonder what The fabled 'Bronze's' specialty was
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I think Shanks has beaten Hawk-Eyes in the past.
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@Lazy:
I think Shanks has beaten Hawk-Eyes in the past.
I dunno, id say from what i've seen they are the same age and have history which makes me think their paths crossed but dont think theyve fought.
But if they did fight shanks would have won hands down lol i'll agree to that -
tech the 666 is a mistranslation i forget the real number its 6 something else 6 ….
i dont know bout chopper being the devil but i always thought he had a human human fruit model: something else
he just didnt know it was a better human human fruitmaybe ancient or mythical or perhaps just regular caveman fruit lol
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@Chopper:
tech the 666 is a mistranslation i forget the real number its 6 something else 6 ….
i dont know bout chopper being the devil but i always thought he had a human human fruit model: something else
he just didnt know it was a better human human fruitmaybe ancient or mythical or perhaps just regular caveman fruit lol
No no i didnt say the devil, 'The beast' is seperate from the devil, its known as an unholy monster. i just think the romance of it is very appealing
Lol to the caveman
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I dunno, id say from what i've seen they are the same age and have history which makes me think their paths crossed but dont think theyve fought.
But if they did fight shanks would have won hands down lol i'll agree to thatThey used to duel and their duels were legendary according to WB.
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@Lazy:
They used to duel and their duels were legendary according to WB.
Ah sweet, i seriously need to read from start to finish again, what chapter is that from btw?
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@Lazy:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-9/one-piece/chapter-434.html
Nice one, Cheers legend! i especially loved this chapter when i first read it. what i only just noticed though is that Shanks used one hand while WB was using both of his, just shows how strong Shanks is, cant wait for the SH to catch up with him in the new world
itll also be a heartfelt reunion with Usopp and Yassop, what are the bets that Usopp goes in as Sogeking because hes nervous -
OMG A REAL LIFE ZORO!!!! http://www.wimp.com/swordtechnique/ SO EPIC
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pandaman is the next strawhat
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kinda share my theory 1.Hawk eye Mihawk is also a one eye blinded man because of Zoro 2.Hawkeye Mihawk will be killed by another Swordsman, that will take the title of the best swordsman in the world 3.Luffy dies, but will be revived by Brook using the revive revive fruit, but cost of brooks life not living in the world again(This is the only way for brook to die, since if he didnt die he will be the lonely one in the end)
1. That would kind of suck(for me) because Mihawk is known for his 'eyes'… It's even in his nickname.
2. This would suck(for me) because that would mean that we'll never see Zoro beat Mihawk, but is also interesting that Zoro might fight to avenge his teacher or something.
3. This would suck(for me) because Brook would not complete his dream of seeing Laboon.These are just my opinions though! Very nice theories you got going there.
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OMG A REAL LIFE ZORO!!!! http://www.wimp.com/swordtechnique/ SO EPIC
i thought that episode was funny
this samurai guy does like everything they tried on him and SUCCEEDS, and then in the end their conclusion is that none of that stuff is possible, even though they have it all on tape being done successfully
my conclusion, dumbest researchers in the world. If you say a human can't possibly cut a bb with a sword and he goes and does it, the conclusion is NOT 'it is not possible'
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i thought that episode was funny
this samurai guy does like everything they tried on him and SUCCEEDS, and then in the end their conclusion is that none of that stuff is possible, even though they have it all on tape being done successfully
my conclusion, dumbest researchers in the world. If you say a human can't possibly cut a bb with a sword and he goes and does it, the conclusion is NOT 'it is not possible'
Ha i agree but if you go on youtube and type the dudes name in, he cuts through iron as a challenge which they say is only fantasy in a certain 'cartoon' and he also cuts a speeding arrow, mental!
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3. This would suck(for me) because Brook would not complete his dream of seeing Laboon.
These are just my opinions though! Very nice theories you got going there.
thanks… about number 3, he would complete his dream by seeing Laboon... but after completing his dream,,, Luffy will die bacause of illness... And Brook decided to revive Luffy using his revive revive fruit.... but reviving a persons costs brooks life not living in the world again....
I just cant imagine that brook is living in the world forever,,, because the message of one piece for me was that "It not how many years you live, but how many life you put in to those years"I remember Luffy saying, " I dont care if I die doing my dream"
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thanks… about number 3, he would complete his dream by seeing Laboon... but after completing his dream,,, Luffy will die bacause of illness... And Brook decided to revive Luffy using his revive revive fruit.... but reviving a persons costs brooks life not living in the world again....
I just cant imagine that brook is living in the world forever,,, because the message of one piece for me was that "It not how many years you live, but how many life you put in to those years"I remember Luffy saying, " I dont care if I die doing my dream"
Its a good theory and it carries romance but alot of people end up thinking that Because Luffy has the king's disposition, the will of D and hes said things that Roger said in the past, that people think he is Roger reincarnated and that he will suffer the same illness. im not saying its unfounded but i think Luffy is set apart from Roger and i think this is what Oda wants. Roger was a legend, but Luffy is his own legend.
I dunno thats just a way i like to look at it. maybe Roger had the same illness as that of the Captain of the Rumbar pirates(just a side thought)
But the thing that made me feel that Luffy was unique was that Silver said that he felt they may have rushed in. he then goes on to say that Luffy may well come to a different conclusion.Its destiny at its finest, the will of "D" will one day save the world (or destroy it) and shanks bet his arm on Luffy. on a new era
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I still think Luffy will die because his life was always mentioned decreasing… And Brook has to die since he will be lonely in the end..... I have this theory that Oda will make a story about Living forever is not good using Brook's character. But Ofcourse, Brook will have to achieve his dream first before he dies again ^_^
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I still think Luffy will die because his life was always mentioned decreasing… And Brook has to die since he will be lonely in the end..... I have this theory that Oda will make a story about Living forever is not good using Brook's character. But Ofcourse, Brook will have to achieve his dream first before he dies again ^_^
Unfortunately i agree about Brook dying, Oda would never leave a loose end like that but you never know. how you mean decreasing?
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about gear second decreasing luffy's lifespan, and the 10 years life span Ivankov takes out from luffy
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Why did you reply to it again, if you've read it already?
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@Superbear:
Why did you reply to it again, if you've read it already?
I'm just curious…
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I feel like the endgame of One Piece will be pretty catastrophic. Like, every member of the crew will lose something precious to them during their first fight against the Blackbeard Pirates (i.e. Brook's Afro, Zoro's Wado Ichimonji, Sanji's leg, etc.) and Robin (likely Shanks as well) will be among the casualties. Blackbeard will reach Raftel first, though he definitely will not find the One Piece first. With their dreams so thoroughly crushed, and out of a desire to protect his friends (which he so desperately wished to do after Ace's death, but has failed again in doing), Luffy will disband the Straw Hat Pirates (to the chagrin of everyone else). However, the only member hellbent on preserving the group is Usopp–the only member who has quit before. He'll take over as captain in Luffy's stead, stating that he'll complete Luffy's job for him. Luffy will sink into another depression, but he'll pull himself out of it eventually. He will meet his crewmates again on Raftel during their second fight, and this time they'll win/find the One Piece, etc. Luffy will probably die at the end, but give his hat to Shanks' kid with Makino or something.
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Why are people so hellbent on Luffy dying in the end,I personally see it like if Luffy were to die it would be a failure of Chopper's dream.
@Mr.Toto, I just read your link, so I am just going to ask was that an indication that Ussop was somehow indirectly instated as the first mate? It is the first mate that takes over the duties of a captain should the captain be indisposed right?
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Why are people so hellbent on Luffy dying in the end,I personally see it like if Luffy were to die it would be a failure of Chopper's dream.
@Mr.Toto, I just read your link, so I am just going to ask was that an indication that Ussop was somehow indirectly instated as the first mate? It is the first mate that takes over the duties of a captain should the captain be indisposed right?
I suppose so. Even though it seems like a throwaway moment, Brook is foreshadowed on that very same page.
Also, Luffy is probably the eyepatch pirate. Or Zoro will probably be blinded (though I guess, alternatively, he could fight against a blind swordsman…but if we assume that he really has lost his left eye, well...).
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I was thinking something similar today Mr.Toto I was thinking that near the end they'll probably all want to quit and feel that the journey was a waste and their dreams are crushed before reaching raftel. Ofcourse Luffy wouldn't give up but would have some thoughts of doubt. Also before that, I reallly want to see it and I strnogly feel that Oda will include this: Zoro has a verbal fight with Luffy and decides to take his own path now. So zoro has left the crew without a fight. Luffy then goes to raftel and sanji sees zoro sitting around somewhere after wondering why moss is growing on a tree >.> then zoro challenges Luffy to a fight saying that he has fought Miwhawk (Miwhawk later gets injured by shilliew which stopped zoro's fight. Now zoro has a reason to go for shilliew >.>) Luffy fights zoro to prove who's stronger
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@Mr.:
I feel like the endgame of One Piece will be pretty catastrophic. Like, every member of the crew will lose something precious to them during their first fight against the Blackbeard Pirates (i.e. Brook's Afro, Zoro's Wado Ichimonji, Sanji's leg, etc.) and Robin (likely Shanks as well) will be among the casualties. Blackbeard will reach Raftel first, though he definitely will not find the One Piece first. With their dreams so thoroughly crushed, and out of a desire to protect his friends (which he so desperately wished to do after Ace's death, but has failed again in doing), Luffy will disband the Straw Hat Pirates (to the chagrin of everyone else). However, the only member hellbent on preserving the group is Usopp–the only member who has quit before. He'll take over as captain in Luffy's stead, stating that he'll complete Luffy's job for him. Luffy will sink into another depression, but he'll pull himself out of it eventually. He will meet his crewmates again on Raftel during their second fight, and this time they'll win/find the One Piece, etc. Luffy will probably die at the end, but give his hat to Shanks' kid with Makino or something.
They all trained like hell so they could become strong enough to support Luffy until the end and not depend on him for protection.
And what would be the point of Luffy becoming depressed again? He already questioned his own strenght and ambition before when Ace died, but managed to pull through it.
This scenario would make their whole 2-year development entirely pointless.
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For some reason I feel like there will come a time where Zoro is asked/has to kill Luffy. He's the only one who could handle it.
Don't ask me why or how though. It's probably because that would be the true test of Zoro's loyalty and beliefs, and the bonds of the SH crew. Hopefully I'm wrong/Zoro doesn't succeed.
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They all trained like hell so they could become strong enough to support Luffy until the end and not depend on him for protection.
And what would be the point of Luffy becoming depressed again? He already questioned his own strenght and ambition before when Ace died, but managed to pull through it.
This scenario would make their whole 2-year development entirely pointless.
While true, you don't really think that it's only going to be victories for the Straw Hats from here on out, do you? He questioned his strength when Ace died, but what pulled Luffy out of it? The fact that he still had his friends. If one of his friends dies and the others are all defeated, it will make Luffy question exactly what he had been doing for two years. The scenario is just something I had been thinking of for the penultimate conflict in the series. Luffy isn't done losing yet, and by no means is it going to be an easy, direct path to his dream. The New World is serious. The pirates involved will fight to the death for their dreams.
I'm not saying that Luffy needs to protect his crew, but that's his own goal. Hell, the newest chapter was entitled "I'll Protect Everyone." If he fails at that, then it'll crush him.
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@Mr.:
While true, you don't really think that it's only going to be victories for the Straw Hats from here on out, do you? He questioned his strength when Ace died, but what pulled Luffy out of it? The fact that he still had his friends. If one of his friends dies and the others are all defeated, it will make Luffy question exactly what he had been doing for two years. The scenario is just something I had been thinking of for the penultimate conflict in the series. Luffy isn't done losing yet, and by no means is it going to be an easy, direct path to his dream. The New World is serious. The pirates involved will fight to the death for their dreams.
I'm not saying that Luffy needs to protect his crew, but that's his own goal. Hell, the newest chapter was entitled "I'll Protect Everyone." If he fails at that, then it'll crush him.
Luffy already failed at protecting his crew back at Shabondy. What would be the point of him failing again? The entire reason for the Timeskip was to prevent that situation from happening again.
And Zoro can't lose the Wado Ichimonji, because his promise to Kuina is the main thing that keeps him going for his dream. Same for Brook, except switch the Wado for his afro and Kuina for Laboon. Robin also can't die before they reach Raftel due to one of the Poneglyphs being presumably there and she wants to uncover the true history.
And Shanks can't die either, as he promised to meet Luffy once he becomes a stronger pirate than he is. They will probably meet after Luffy becomes the Pirate King.
The whole thing about their dreams being crushed just ain't happening. Oda himself said that having your dreams crushed is even worse than death in this Manga.
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Luffy already failed at protecting his crew back at Shabondy. What would be the point of him failing again? The entire reason for the Timeskip was to prevent that situation from happening again.
And Zoro can't lose the Wado Ichimonji, because his promise to Kuina is the main thing that keeps him going for his dream. Same for Brook, except switch the Wado for his afro and Kuina for Laboon. Robin also can't die before they reach Raftel due to one of the Poneglyphs being presumably there and she wants to uncover the true history.
And Shanks can't die either, as he promised to meet Luffy once he becomes a stronger pirate than he is. They will probably meet after Luffy becomes the Pirate King.
The whole thing about their dreams being crushed just ain't happening. Oda himself said that having your dreams crushed is even worse than death in this Manga.
This is a pretty foolhardy thing for Luffy to say. It's just like his claim that he would save Ace. He tried, and he failed. The point is that brazen confidence won't always bring you out of the depths of despair. We saw that with Luffy earlier. Roger and Luffy both have in common that they hated losing their friends. Luffy lost his brother, but it would be too easy for him to never go through a trial like that again. The fact of the matter is that people die. Especially in this world. Do you really think that Luffy is going to easily overcome any adversary he faces from now on? Even with all of his strength, the New World has people that are probably stronger than him. Some pirates have been doing their things for decades–it's sort of a miracle that Luffy has gotten as strong as he has in such a short time.
You're saying these things as if they go against the laws of physics. Why can't Zoro lose the Wado Ichimonji? He lost Yubashiri in one panel. If that marine had touched Kuina's sword, it would have happened. Why couldn't that happen again to the sword he's been using for over a decade? And what's stopping an enemy from burning off Brook's afro? And what if Robin does die? Does that mean that the characters can't uncover the true history?
(Also, I assumed that Shanks would die after Luffy met him again–not beforehand. But after he becomes the Pirate King? Shanks is one of his rivals in this! Luffy has to surpass him before he gives back the hat, and that probably involves Luffy fighting him.)
The point of the matter I'm trying to make is that even though you assume the characters need these things to achieve their dreams, don't necessarily. If Laboon recognized Brook without his afro, that would make for far more touching a scene than anything else. Maybe Zoro will become the world's greatest swordsman using a broken sword. If your dream is crushed, what do you do afterwards? Do you give up? Or do you stand back up and fight? Even if Luffy doubts himself, it will only make him stronger to rise back up to the challenge.
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This is a pretty foolhardy thing for Luffy to say. It's just like his claim that he would save Ace. He tried, and he failed. The point is that brazen confidence won't always bring you out of the depths of despair. We saw that with Luffy earlier. Roger and Luffy both have in common that they hated losing their friends. Luffy lost his brother, but it would be too easy for him to never go through a trial like that again. The fact of the matter is that people die. Especially in this world. Do you really think that Luffy is going to easily overcome any adversary he faces from now on? Even with all of his strength, the New World has people that are probably stronger than him. Some pirates have been doing their things for decades–it's sort of a miracle that Luffy has gotten as strong as he has in such a short time.
Exactly. We already saw that brazen confidence is not enough to win against the big shots. My point is that there's no point in showing this point again. Do you understand what I mean?
I never said that the Strawhats won't ever lose again. They most likely will, but the defeats will be more akin to Luffy's first battles with Crocodile, where he lost only physically, but not mentally.
You're saying these things as if they go against the laws of physics. Why can't Zoro lose the Wado Ichimonji? He lost Yubashiri in one panel. If that marine had touched Kuina's sword, it would have happened. Why couldn't that happen again to the sword he's been using for over a decade? And what's stopping an enemy from burning off Brook's afro? And what if Robin does die? Does that mean that the characters can't uncover the true history?
Zoro losing the Wado would be like Luffy losing his strawhat. Zoro has a much more emotional connection with Wado than the Yubashiri because it represents his promise to Kuina, just like how the strawhat represents Luffy's promise to Shanks. Keeping it intact is the least he could do.
Robin is the only person capable of reading the Poneglyphs. There would be no point of introducing Poneglyphs if we didn't get to know what was written on them, right? She NEEDS to uncover the true history to justify her and Ohana's backstory and existence in the plot.
(Also, I assumed that Shanks would die after Luffy met him again–not beforehand. But after he becomes the Pirate King? Shanks is one of his rivals in this! Luffy has to surpass him before he gives back the hat, and that probably involves Luffy fighting him.)
Sure. I'm all for Luffy vs. Shanks. I just don't see Shanks dying because it would feel like a purposeless death. Luffy has already enough reasons to stand up against Blackbeard.
The point of the matter I'm trying to make is that even though you assume the characters need these things to achieve their dreams, don't necessarily. If Laboon recognized Brook without his afro, that would make for far more touching a scene than anything else. Maybe Zoro will become the world's greatest swordsman using a broken sword. If your dream is crushed, what do you do afterwards? Do you give up? Or do you stand back up and fight? Even if Luffy doubts himself, it will only make him stronger to rise back up to the challenge.
You have a point about Brook and Laboon. It would certainly be touching. Zoro would be a different story, like I said above.
The problem with dreams being crushed is that Oda sees it as a punishment worse than death and he usually reserves it to complete monsters without redeemable qualities like Kuro and Don Krieg.
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Coby will become a marine admiral and he will be one of the final bosses that Luffy fights. He of course would be much stronger and nearly on par with Luffy. (If not the last, I'd imagine him being the next Garp kind of how Luffy is sort of the next Gold Roger.)
Law will be to Luffy what White Beard was to Roger.
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Has anyone else imagined a possible schism towards the end between the Marines and the World Government? There are enough members of both organisations who distrust each other and I think a lot of this is underpinned by different aims and a lack of understanding of each other (particularly on the part of the Marines; they appear to know little of the workings of the World Gov't).
I've long thought that One Piece, or at least something on Raftel, is comprised of info that would completely unravel the World Gov't if it were leaked. If Luffy came across this, and released it to the world, I could foresee the many senior ranking Marines who follow the Moral Justice code (Aokiji, Sengoku, etc.) falling in line with Luffy as a World Gov't antagonist.
The issue with that theory, I suppose, is that if One Piece is partly a bunch of secret, damaging information, then what was Roger doing? Couldn't see him just going, 'Whatever dude,' and just chilling out for a while instead before promptly deciding to have himself executed!
Unless, that is, Roger was unable to do anything about the info he'd uncovered because something he cared about was held to ransom? After all, he had a crew he cared for. And a son (a son he had to ask a Marine to hide, no less!). In fact, regardless of whether or not you care for the idea of a Marine / World Gov't schism, the question of why Roger just left all his prized sh*t at Raftel and buggered off home to die is something that needs to be answered! Because we've known from the start that it was apparently pretty important to him to have someone else find it!
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NB: I forgot to mention that my other thing which leads me to think of that as a possibility is the way Oda has begun to push the idea, since Marineford, of Luffy as an uncommon binding force. Bringing enemies together. He's had everyone from Admirals to Shichibukai to Roger Pirates crew members to former enemies (even scumbags like Crocodile) team up with him (or at least help him... or at least spare him) over the course of the series.
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Honestly, I've thought it for a while, but I think AFTER Luffy becomes the Pirate King, he'll put an end to the Pirate Age altogether.
I can just imagine him announcing it to everyone.. It just seems like the kind of thing he'd do, random :PJust a theory ;D
Oh and I bet the One Piece will be something cheesy like; "I FOUND THE ONE PIECE! I'VE HAD IT ALL ALONG! IT'S MY NAKAMA!!!"
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There must be a connection between Roger starting the Great Age of Pirates and what he learned on Raftel, otherwise the news couldn't have been that shocking.
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http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=31617
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=33797Plenty of threads like these around the forum these two are the most recent that come to mind, might be interesting reads to you two just sayin'
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Why is there no middle ground in your thought process at all?
There is. I'm taking the extreme opposite position in my argument because the middle ground scenario is the most obvious of them all: I know Luffy is going to have difficulty in the New World against his enemies. That's a given. But why do you assume that it is farfetched for him to actually lose again?
Exactly. We already saw that brazen confidence is not enough to win against the big shots. My point is that there's no point in showing this point again. Do you understand what I mean?
I never said that the Strawhats won't ever lose again. They most likely will, but the defeats will be more akin to Luffy's first battles with Crocodile, where he lost only physically, but not mentally.
But what if Luffy gets scared? That's the difference in this situation. The two years renewed his fractured confidence like a bone–stronger than before. But he's made the wrong decision before. If one of his choices as captain ended up killing one of his best friends, don't you see that affecting him mentally to a significant degree? Keep in mind that this is a thread for theories--I'm trying to predict something that could only possibly happen about a literal decade down the line.
Zoro losing the Wado would be like Luffy losing his strawhat. Zoro has a much more emotional connection with Wado than the Yubashiri because it represents his promise to Kuina, just like how the strawhat represents Luffy's promise to Shanks. Keeping it intact is the least he could do.
I'm sure if possible, they would keep them intact. But swords snap in battle all the time. Zoro's been using it for years–do you not think it has had significant wear and tear? Also, Luffy's hat has been damaged in battle before--even in his early fights. Hell, he lost it in Marineford and Shanks had to return it to him! There's no guarantee that it won't be further damaged.
Robin is the only person capable of reading the Poneglyphs. There would be no point of introducing Poneglyphs if we didn't get to know what was written on them, right? She NEEDS to uncover the true history to justify her and Ohana's backstory and existence in the plot.
She doesn't NEED to. Her death can be a tragic testament to the evils of the World Government (especially considering she decided that she wanted to live during the Enies Lobby arc). And even though Robin is the only one who can read Poneglyphs now, Roger had the ability "to hear the voice of all things" and understand them. I think it's something Luffy will acquire as well, but he won't need it unless Robin dies.
Sure. I'm all for Luffy vs. Shanks. I just don't see Shanks dying because it would feel like a purposeless death. Luffy has already enough reasons to stand up against Blackbeard.
I mean, Shanks has his dreams too though. And both Luffy and Blackbeard are standing in the way of them. Blackbeard in particular–Shanks wants his revenge for that wound given to him. Or at the very least, we can settle upon the fact that Blackbeard is Shanks' enemy. In order to get to the One Piece, the two of them will have to fight. And operating under the assumption that Blackbeard is indeed Luffy's greatest enemy, Shanks' death would not be purposeless--it could give Luffy more motive to hate his sworn enemy: the man who has taken nearly everything from him. His brother, his mentor (Shanks), his friend (Robin), his eye, and almost his dream--but that's what Blackbeard cannot take from Luffy.
The problem with dreams being crushed is that Oda sees it as a punishment worse than death and he usually reserves it to complete monsters without redeemable qualities like Kuro and Don Krieg.
I'm not saying his dream will be absolutely crushed, but Luffy NEEDS to go through something either just as traumatic or even more traumatic than Ace's death before he becomes the Pirate King. There will be no smooth sailing. The seas are treacherous, and break the dreams of men. That is what the New World signifies. But having the protagonist experience something that brings him to the brink of death (not just physically, but mentally too) and to overcome it…this fits into the main theme of One Piece.
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@Mr.:
There is. I'm taking the extreme opposite position in my argument because the middle ground scenario is the most obvious of them all: I know Luffy is going to have difficulty in the New World against his enemies. That's a given. But why do you assume that it is farfetched for him to actually lose again?
I don't think it's farfetched at all. He loses all the time, and is sure to again. Hell, even in this arc Zoro lost. That's a far cry from one of the crew members dying on him, though. But KO'd, absolutely.
If you want to take an extreme stance that's fine. But you can't just assume that anyone opposed has to take the opposite extreme.
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There is. I'm taking the extreme opposite position in my argument because the middle ground scenario is the most obvious of them all: I know Luffy is going to have difficulty in the New World against his enemies. That's a given. But why do you assume that it is farfetched for him to actually lose again?
Luffy losing again isn't farfetched, but to the point of having his entire will broken again is simply unlikely. That's the kind of thing that only happens once in a Shonen Manga because if it happens again, it won't have the same impact.
But what if Luffy gets scared? That's the difference in this situation. The two years renewed his fractured confidence like a bone–stronger than before. But he's made the wrong decision before. If one of his choices as captain ended up killing one of his best friends, don't you see that affecting him mentally to a significant degree? Keep in mind that this is a thread for theories--I'm trying to predict something that could only possibly happen about a literal decade down the line.
I know this thread is for theories, but there's no rule against writing my opinion about other people's theories (because I'm too lazy to think about my own ).
And having a Strawhat die because Luffy made a wrong choice? That's just dumb. All characters so far have died because of their own accord, not because somebody made a mistake.
I'm sure if possible, they would keep them intact. But swords snap in battle all the time. Zoro's been using it for years–do you not think it has had significant wear and tear? Also, Luffy's hat has been damaged in battle before--even in his early fights. Hell, he lost it in Marineford and Shanks had to return it to him! There's no guarantee that it won't be further damaged.
A damaged hat is much easier to repair than a damaged sword. And Zoro wants to realize his dream for Kuina too, which is why he's using her sword to accomplish that goal.
She doesn't NEED to. Her death can be a tragic testament to the evils of the World Government (especially considering she decided that she wanted to live during the Enies Lobby arc). And even though Robin is the only one who can read Poneglyphs now, Roger had the ability "to hear the voice of all things" and understand them. I think it's something Luffy will acquire as well, but he won't need it unless Robin dies.
DO WE EVEN NEED more tragic testaments to the evils of the World Government? We already have the destruction of Ohara, the whole slavery issue and the covering up of the Impel Down Level 6 prisoners that have escaped.
And read what I wrote about Robin earlier. She NEEDS to achieve her goal to JUSTIFY her backstory and existence. If she dies, the whole Ohana flashback and Enies Lobby arc become a waste of time. It's not like the Rescue Ace arc where the entire point was to shown that Luffy was still too weak and had to improve a lot more to prevent his nakama from dying like Ace.
Plus, after Luffy remembered the whole "live without regrets" stuff, I have a hard time seeing Luffy depressed again.
I mean, Shanks has his dreams too though. And both Luffy and Blackbeard are standing in the way of them. Blackbeard in particular–Shanks wants his revenge for that wound given to him. Or at the very least, we can settle upon the fact that Blackbeard is Shanks' enemy. In order to get to the One Piece, the two of them will have to fight. And operating under the assumption that Blackbeard is indeed Luffy's greatest enemy, Shanks' death would not be purposeless--it could give Luffy more motive to hate his sworn enemy: the man who has taken nearly everything from him. His brother, his mentor (Shanks), his friend (Robin), his eye, and almost his dream--but that's what Blackbeard cannot take from Luffy.
Blackbeard taking nearly everything away from Luffy just sounds like unnecessary drama. There's already a personal conflict between both because of Ace's death and Blackbeard is already the biggest obstacle on Luffy's way to become the Pirate King. That's enough motivation right there. Just have Blackbeard attack Luffy's crew and you can have the same effect.
I'm not saying his dream will be absolutely crushed, but Luffy NEEDS to go through something either just as traumatic or even more traumatic than Ace's death before he becomes the Pirate King. There will be no smooth sailing. The seas are treacherous, and break the dreams of men. That is what the New World signifies. But having the protagonist experience something that brings him to the brink of death (not just physically, but mentally too) and to overcome it…this fits into the main theme of One Piece.
Why does he need another trauma? Because Ace's death wasn't traumatic enough? What about Sabo's death? Wasn't that traumatic too? Luffy didn't spent 2 years training hard both physically and mentally with the right-hand of the Pirate King just to have another trauma again. If he did, then the whole 2-year development would've been a waste of time.
The New World is cruel for those that aren't ready for it, unlike Luffy who had 2 years to prepare himself.
By the way, can anybody tell me how to properly multi-quote? I suppose it has something to do with that icon on the corner of a post, but it seems useless.
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Has anyone else imagined a possible schism towards the end between the Marines and the World Government? There are enough members of both organisations who distrust each other and I think a lot of this is underpinned by different aims and a lack of understanding of each other (particularly on the part of the Marines; they appear to know little of the workings of the World Gov't).
I've long thought that One Piece, or at least something on Raftel, is comprised of info that would completely unravel the World Gov't if it were leaked. If Luffy came across this, and released it to the world, I could foresee the many senior ranking Marines who follow the Moral Justice code (Aokiji, Sengoku, etc.) falling in line with Luffy as a World Gov't antagonist.
The issue with that theory, I suppose, is that if One Piece is partly a bunch of secret, damaging information, then what was Roger doing? Couldn't see him just going, 'Whatever dude,' and just chilling out for a while instead before promptly deciding to have himself executed!
Unless, that is, Roger was unable to do anything about the info he'd uncovered because something he cared about was held to ransom? After all, he had a crew he cared for. And a son (a son he had to ask a Marine to hide, no less!). In fact, regardless of whether or not you care for the idea of a Marine / World Gov't schism, the question of why Roger just left all his prized sh*t at Raftel and buggered off home to die is something that needs to be answered! Because we've known from the start that it was apparently pretty important to him to have someone else find it!
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NB: I forgot to mention that my other thing which leads me to think of that as a possibility is the way Oda has begun to push the idea, since Marineford, of Luffy as an uncommon binding force. Bringing enemies together. He's had everyone from Admirals to Shichibukai to Roger Pirates crew members to former enemies (even scumbags like Crocodile) team up with him (or at least help him... or at least spare him) over the course of the series.
I would doubt anyone joins Luffy, more joins the Revolutionaries.
Still doubt it though, Sengoku, Aokiji, Coby ect will still be trying to save the millions of citizens they believe the World Government are protecting. They will still be fighting to save the thosands of marines that are also of good heart. The World Government is not evil on a whole its only a FEW people.
Also don't you recall the Rayleigh discussion. Roger couldnt' READ the poneglyphs, he could somehow do something else, and Rayleigh even says, Robin being from Ohara and knowing so much more that she would most likely come to a different conclusion. Roger was a PIRATE, a LUFFY, do you really think that if Luffy could read the poneglyphs that he would even understand them?
Then what was he even suppose to do? There was no Revolutionaries back then. It would have been Roger and his little crew versus the entire world, Marines and Pirates. You think Roger could have shown up at Marineford with no allies and beat the WG? Then even if he did, he is seen through the rest of the world as the ruthless Pirate King and is going to most likely kill us all. I mean imagine if a group of terrorist came to america and destroyed our entire military and politicians. I can't imagine the citizens of america going "sweet, kick ass" Even if the terrorist give some speech saying how the U.S. Government was evil.
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Luffy losing again isn't farfetched, but to the point of having his entire will broken again is simply unlikely. That's the kind of thing that only happens once in a Shonen Manga because if it happens again, it won't have the same impact.
The basis of Luffy's potential future breakdown only is validated by the possibility of one of his friends being killed. In real life, people give up on their dreams all of the time. And even for those who are successful, for many there's a point where they believe that they might fail. And besides, One Piece isn't like most shonen manga. It's rewriting the Shonen formula .
And having a Strawhat die because Luffy made a wrong choice? That's just dumb. All characters so far have died because of their own accord, not because somebody made a mistake.
I don't think it's dumb. Luffy is a leader, but his actions always have consequences. It would be nice to see him grow as a captain because he made a bad choice.
A damaged hat is much easier to repair than a damaged sword. And Zoro wants to realize his dream for Kuina too, which is why he's using her sword to accomplish that goal.
Yes, and that's nice and all. But again–it doesn't mean that those objects are safe. Look at how easy this was. Why couldn't it happen to his favorite?
DO WE EVEN NEED more tragic testaments to the evils of the World Government? We already have the destruction of Ohara, the whole slavery issue and the covering up of the Impel Down Level 6 prisoners that have escaped.
I mean, the World Government is one of the primary antagonists and oppressors. The Straw Hat pirates are fighting against the world, and the evils of the system supporting it are still slowly being unraveled. Even if you don't think that we need more tragic testaments, it is almost guaranteed that there will be more.
And read what I wrote about Robin earlier. She NEEDS to achieve her goal to JUSTIFY her backstory and existence. If she dies, the whole Ohana flashback and Enies Lobby arc become a waste of time. It's not like the Rescue Ace arc where the entire point was to shown that Luffy was still too weak and had to improve a lot more to prevent his nakama from dying like Ace.
Robin doesn't need to achieve her goal to justify her existence. She could be just like Ace–a character created and killed off in order to have the protagonist go through something traumatic and ultimately further cultivated from it. I don't think she's safe just because she has a dream. Oda knew Ace was going to die the moment he introduced him into the series, and why couldn't he have thought the same for Robin?
Plus, after Luffy remembered the whole "live without regrets" stuff, I have a hard time seeing Luffy depressed again.
I don't. Especially considering that he didn't magically eject himself from his depression after remembering that. It was him remembering that he still had friends that saved him. What do you think would happen if he didn't have them anymore?
Blackbeard taking nearly everything away from Luffy just sounds like unnecessary drama. There's already a personal conflict between both because of Ace's death and Blackbeard is already the biggest obstacle on Luffy's way to become the Pirate King. That's enough motivation right there. Just have Blackbeard attack Luffy's crew and you can have the same effect.
I'm certain that Oda is going to give us more reasons to both hate and love Blackbeard as a character and villain (but mainly, more reasons for Luffy to hate him). Blackbeard is powerful, but his will is just as strong as Luffy's. It manifests itself in a more primal and vicious way, but he's the anti-Luffy.
Why does he need another trauma? Because Ace's death wasn't traumatic enough? What about Sabo's death? Wasn't that traumatic too? Luffy didn't spent 2 years training hard both physically and mentally with the right-hand of the Pirate King just to have another trauma again. If he did, then the whole 2-year development would've been a waste of time.
It wouldn't be a waste of time. But it's not like two years gave Luffy all of the power to make his dreams come true. And we've literally just seen Luffy say something that is incredibly difficult for him to prove. "I'll Protect Everything." After saying those words, he has to live up to them. Throughout this arc, Luffy has taken on the role of protector–something he's never really had to do before. But his crew didn't spend two years training to just be protected.
Luffy can't protect everything, as we've already seen. His confidence in his own strength and ability is reassuring, but I wouldn't say that I believe what he says.
The New World is cruel for those that aren't ready for it, unlike Luffy who had 2 years to prepare himself.
I still think that you're underestimating everyone in the New World while simultaneously overestimating Luffy. You speak as if the rest of the Supernovas and the Marines haven't been training or preparing as well. I'm not saying that the Straw Hats aren't ready for the New World, but I'm also skeptical of your assertion that Luffy is physically and mentally ready to become the Pirate King right now.
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@Mr.:
The basis of Luffy's potential future breakdown only is validated by the possibility of one of his friends being killed. In real life, people give up on their dreams all of the time. And even for those who are successful, for many there's a point where they believe that they might fail. And besides, One Piece isn't like most shonen manga. It's rewriting the Shonen formula .
One Piece isn't real life, it's a fictional lighthearted story. Dreams are much more meaningful there than in reality, which is why Oda considers the loss of one a harsh punishment reserved to those that deserve it.
And recycling a formula (somebody important to the protagonist dies, protagonist suffers a breakdown, protagonist matures and gets over it) is rewriting the Shonen formula? Maybe it is, but not in the positive way…
@Mr.:
I don't think it's dumb. Luffy is a leader, but his actions always have consequences. It would be nice to see him grow as a captain because he made a bad choice.
You talk like Luffy has never grew as a captain. He's not the same person he was back at the beginning of the series.
Also, this point has already been explored in the manga before when Luffy decided to recklessly punch a World Noble only to have his nakama attacked by Kizaru and taken away from him by Kuma. The following events made him realize how much he had to mature in order to achieve his dream.
@Mr.:
Yes, and that's nice and all. But again–it doesn't mean that those objects are safe. Look at how easy this was. Why couldn't it happen to his favorite?
Duh, of course that was easy. That Marine Captain conveniently had the power to rust metal, a fact that was used as a plot point for Zoro to acquire a new sword in Thriller Bark. The chances of them ever meeting again is minimal at best.
@Mr.:
I mean, the World Government is one of the primary antagonists and oppressors. The Straw Hat pirates are fighting against the world, and the evils of the system supporting it are still slowly being unraveled. Even if you don't think that we need more tragic testaments, it is almost guaranteed that there will be more.
Of course there will be more, but it doesn't mean that we NEED more.
@Mr.:
Robin doesn't need to achieve her goal to justify her existence. She could be just like Ace–a character created and killed off in order to have the protagonist go through something traumatic and ultimately further cultivated from it. I don't think she's safe just because she has a dream. Oda knew Ace was going to die the moment he introduced him into the series, and why couldn't he have thought the same for Robin?
Ace had no apparent dream and Whitebeard had already realized his. In order for Robin to die, she would need to achieve her dream first, which will most likely happen at the very end of the series. She might even die after that, but it would be too late for Luffy to give up on his dream considering the last poneglyph is supposedly located on Raftel.
And if what Rayleigh said is true, the real history is open for interpretation, which means that we need at least two people to reach two different conclusions (in this case, Luffy with an ability to hear the breath of all things similar to Roger and Robin's knowledge of poneglyph reading).
@Mr.:
I don't. Especially considering that he didn't magically eject himself from his depression after remembering that. It was him remembering that he still had friends that saved him. What do you think would happen if he didn't have them anymore?
They don't really need to die for that, though. If Luffy THINKS they are dead, then it works too. Oda uses death only when it's necessary for the plot.
@Mr.:
I'm certain that Oda is going to give us more reasons to both hate and love Blackbeard as a character and villain (but mainly, more reasons for Luffy to hate him). Blackbeard is powerful, but his will is just as strong as Luffy's. It manifests itself in a more primal and vicious way, but he's the anti-Luffy.
So Oda will make Blackbeard kill a character just to add fuel to the fire? While not exactly purposeless, it would still feel like a waste of a good character.
@Mr.:
It wouldn't be a waste of time. But it's not like two years gave Luffy all of the power to make his dreams come true. And we've literally just seen Luffy say something that is incredibly difficult for him to prove. "I'll Protect Everything." After saying those words, he has to live up to them. Throughout this arc, Luffy has taken on the role of protector–something he's never really had to do before. But his crew didn't spend two years training to just be protected.
He will become stronger in the New World, where he will be challenged all the time.
@Mr.:
Luffy can't protect everything, as we've already seen. His confidence in his own strength and ability is reassuring, but I wouldn't say that I believe what he says.
Just because you don't believe, doesn't mean that he can't.
@Mr.:
I still think that you're underestimating everyone in the New World while simultaneously overestimating Luffy. You speak as if the rest of the Supernovas and the Marines haven't been training or preparing as well. I'm not saying that the Straw Hats aren't ready for the New World, but I'm also skeptical of your assertion that Luffy is physically and mentally ready to become the Pirate King right now.
Well, I think you're the one underestimating Luffy while overestimating everyone in the New World. Luffy had the privilege to train under the First-Mate of the Pirate King and developed better than Rayleigh had expected. The SN and the Marines might have trained too, but not in the same way as Luffy. If everybody had trained like Luffy, then Luffy's growth would be nullified because nothing would have changed in the power scale (this goes more for the stronger Marines than for the more plot-relevant Marines like Smoker and Coby, not to mention the Supernovas, who need to be at least close to current Luffy's level to still be considered threaths).