Chapter 616: "Anniversary of Revenge" Discussion

senor

I still think the Boa sisters will be the indication for the monster trio

Hancock - CoC
Boa 1 = CoO
Boa 2 = CoA

For the SHs

Luffy = CoC + plus the others. Leaning towards CoC
Zoro = Leaning toward CoO but having CoA as well.
Sanji = leaning toward CoA but having basic CoO as well.

I think it is more likely that Sanji will have CoO and Zoro CoA.. if you remember at the beginning of Sanji's time on Okamaland(whatever it was) he didn't understand how the could predict all his moves.. it seems like zoro will have better control of hearing 'the voice of all things' whatever that may be. it could be some type of super CoO i suppose..

Kishido

What moves predicting? Do you mean the filler?

No seriously ever since the fat Boa sister matched herself up in fire I said Sanji will use this haki, even if I haven't known which one it is back then.

That's why I'm saying. The one was using mantra and the other matched herself up in fire. Zoro was always good at "predicting" and it would composite his lose of an eye. And DJ could be explained better with this haki

Urouge

Zoro has also read lots of moves in various fights. He seems to me a prime candidate to learn all 3, since Kizaru has a habit of fighting the #2's. CoC isn't some insurmountable barrier or anything, though. If Sanji doesn't get it he'll get some other equalizer to make up for it probably. We'll have a better idea of what to expect in comparison when Oda shows the #3 guy from Roger's crew later in the story (he said somewhere that it'll happen I'm pretty sure).

Kishido

True that. Can't wait to see Bronze… And we still don't know what CoC besides knocking out fodder can do. Even if I think Sanji will be tone fighting Kizaru with his kicking and speed theme.

But far too early to tell it.

dragonfire1992

I really hope we meet more of Rogers crew as the story goes on. I bet the one guy we've seen before, but doesnt have a name is Bronze.

Muah

Yea zoros going to get kings haki and sanji won't. Makes all the sense in the world. To me zoro or sanji getting coc will take away from there constant breezing through armed and unarmed opponents. Besides I know think that coc are meant for people better than strongest swordsman. Like yonkou, pirate empress, fleet admirals and other top of the line prestige people or those at the top.

Kishido

@Muah:

Yea zoros going to get kings haki and sanji won't. Makes all the sense in the world. To me zoro or sanji getting coc will take away from there constant breezing through armed and unarmed opponents. Besides I know think that coc are meant for people better than strongest swordsman. Like yonkou, pirate empress, fleet admirals and other top of the line prestige people or those at the top.

Hell even if Zoro will get CoC, which is likely, it wound end nothing. For now it only has the abilty to knock out fodder people.

I would have no problem but if CoC is really just a fodderizing fodder move and you can get it if you are famous enough at the very and I could even see REALLY SMALL chances for Sanji as well

You know. Most feared man for the marines and all. Unlikely for for him, ver likely for Zoro. Maybe both won't get it after all.

Rayleigh was "just" wnd behind Roger and he still had it. So why not? And Bronze has yet to appear. If Bronze won't have this abilty for example I can see im cheering up maybe even Sanji, if he is mad of it xD

looking_at_you

It would better if Zoro did not have kings because he wants to be the best swordsman and he normally has a disadvantage when fighting and having kings haki would be a advantage.

like if Mihawk does not have kings and Zoro does and Zoro beats Mihawk it would make it less of a win.

triforcebih

@looking_at_you:

It would better if Zoro did not have kings because he wants to be the best swordsman and he normally has a disadvantage when fighting and having kings haki would be a advantage.

Yeah you are so right… I mean it is normal for people to have/wish for a disadvantage and be happy with it. Why would someone take something that will give him advantage over something ?

Nycprodigy

even if zoro did have Color of Conqueror he probably wouldnt use it because he likes to fight mmore even if it's a waste of his time. I mean if he used it like how shanks did on WB's ship then i wouldnt mind so then he would know which sowrdsman or regular person was the strongest in an unequal match

HikaruYami

@Urouge:

Zoro has also read lots of moves in various fights. He seems to me a prime candidate to learn all 3, since Kizaru has a habit of fighting the #2's. CoC isn't some insurmountable barrier or anything, though. If Sanji doesn't get it he'll get some other equalizer to make up for it probably. We'll have a better idea of what to expect in comparison when Oda shows the #3 guy from Roger's crew later in the story (he said somewhere that it'll happen I'm pretty sure).

He did not specify this, I believe, but he at least confirmed that he was called Bronze [Something]. Having a name means that he will quite likely show up, at least in a flashback.

Jacoobus

@KiShiDo:

Hell even if Zoro will get CoC, which is likely, it wound end nothing. For now it only has the abilty to knock out fodder people.

I would have no problem but if CoC is really just a fodderizing fodder move and you can get it if you are famous enough at the very and I could even see REALLY SMALL chances for Sanji as well

You know. Most feared man for the marines and all. Unlikely for for him, ver likely for Zoro. Maybe both won't get it after all.

Rayleigh was "just" wnd behind Roger and he still had it. So why not? And Bronze has yet to appear. If Bronze won't have this abilty for example I can see im cheering up maybe even Sanji, if he is mad of it xD

I don't think you quite understand what CoC is. Unlike CoA and CoO it's not something that can be obtained through training, experience or increased fame. You are either born with it or not. I doubt anyone on the crew will have it but Luffy.

Beowulf89

I'm of two minds in regards to Haki.

Basically, I don't think that Zoro will get any real advantage against Mihawk that has nothing to do with swordplay. So, if Mihawk has some Haki powers, Zoro will have at least some.

But I don't think Mihawk uses Haki. Because throughout the series, you see Zoro look down on people who call themselves swordsmen, and then rely on gimmicks. He won't let Usopp use Dials to upgrade his swords, for example. He didn't think of taking Funkfreed, despite losing one of his swords only seconds earlier, and went for generic, nameless blades instead. If Zoro found out part of Mihawk's strength was that he could know an opponent's action before he acted, he'd be disappointed. I think, by extension, just as Mihawk is simply "the best swordsman," Zoro will reach the top of the world, merely by being the best swordsman possible.

Cyborg_Franky

@KiShiDo:

True that. Can't wait to see Bronze… And we still don't know what CoC besides knocking out fodder can do. Even if I think Sanji will be tone fighting Kizaru with his kicking and speed theme.

But far too early to tell it.

it is too early to tell the extent of CoC's power but in chapter 570 pg4 top left the okama king says something like "the power to fight what cannot be seen dragon" made me think of two things

1. that dragon is prob a wind log giving him the ability to not "be seen" in combination with a logias power making it very hard to dodge his attacks and making him very powerful (plus in my opinion explains all the wind and stormy weather that seems to always surround him)

and 2. that Coc could somehow nullify a DF users ability to maybe use their DF or maybe stop a logia's ability to change into their element (im going out on a limb here but i also thought of this when ben beckam was aiming at kizaru thinking of the whole #2 = Coc kind of style and in that light is faster than a bullet so even if it was CoA'd he could dodge it unless Coc was used to keep him from doing anything in the first place)

DaJungKi

@Beowulf89:

I'm of two minds in regards to Haki.

Basically, I don't think that Zoro will get any real advantage against Mihawk that has nothing to do with swordplay. So, if Mihawk has some Haki powers, Zoro will have at least some.

But I don't think Mihawk uses Haki. Because throughout the series, you see Zoro look down on people who call themselves swordsmen, and then rely on gimmicks. He won't let Usopp use Dials to upgrade his swords, for example. He didn't think of taking Funkfreed, despite losing one of his swords only seconds earlier, and went for generic, nameless blades instead. If Zoro found out part of Mihawk's strength was that he could know an opponent's action before he acted, he'd be disappointed. I think, by extension, just as Mihawk is simply "the best swordsman," Zoro will reach the top of the world, merely by being the best swordsman possible.

I both agree and disagree.

I think pure swordsmanship can get you to a certain point, and Mihawk is so good, he probably doesn't need to use anything else against most opponents (even against Zoro). However, start climbing the mountain of top-tier fighters and you're looking at individuals that can use techniques such as Rokushiki or powerful DFs like Logias. While I'm sure it was far from his strongest, one of his slashes was easily deflected by Diamond Jozu.

So I think that haki is not a substitute for, but rather a complement to, Zoro's sword techniques. He used only slashing techniques in the beginning of One Piece, but later he started using advanced techniques such as his 36/72/108-pound-cannon. Zoro also has a very heightened sense of proximity and movement, which is just as much an extension of his swordsmanship as it is an element of haki.

So in other words, I think haki doesn't function as a gimmick for Zoro, but rather an enhancement to his already formidable battle prowess and instinct (which Mihawk also has in spades–remember how effortlessly he predicted Luffy's Gear 2 movements).

Also it is clear from the manga that one requires haki to even touch Logias. It's the logical next step for all three of the "Monster Trio". Think--if Luffy didn't have a rubber body, his entire crew would have been effortlessly defeated by Enel alone. Even dispatching Zoro and Sanji was no problem for him, and I think Oda was showing us a preview to haki and its capabilities.

mcdreamy

@Beowulf89:

I'm of two minds in regards to Haki.

Basically, I don't think that Zoro will get any real advantage against Mihawk that has nothing to do with swordplay. So, if Mihawk has some Haki powers, Zoro will have at least some.

But I don't think Mihawk uses Haki. Because throughout the series, you see Zoro look down on people who call themselves swordsmen, and then rely on gimmicks. He won't let Usopp use Dials to upgrade his swords, for example. He didn't think of taking Funkfreed, despite losing one of his swords only seconds earlier, and went for generic, nameless blades instead. If Zoro found out part of Mihawk's strength was that he could know an opponent's action before he acted, he'd be disappointed. I think, by extension, just as Mihawk is simply "the best swordsman," Zoro will reach the top of the world, merely by being the best swordsman possible.

I think most of us would have agreed with you before zoro tried to give his life for the crew and before he begged mihawk to train him. I think zoro has proven that if it's for the sake of the crew he can abandon his pride and this is why he's 1st mate material. It's true there's a slim chance zoro might object to haki at first but he'll come around, especially when he finds out he can fight logia if he learns it.

HikaruYami

@mcdreamy:

I think most of us would have agreed with you before zoro tried to give his life for the crew and before he begged mihawk to train him. I think zoro has proven that if it's for the sake of the crew he can abandon his pride and this is why he's 1st mate material. It's true there's a slim chance zoro might object to haki at first but he'll come around, especially when he finds out he can fight logia if he learns it.

=.=" It's not only all of that; the person you quoted is also just plain WRONG.

Haki is an intrinsic power of humans. It is not some "gimmick". Zoro has the power within him to read people's moves by listening to their "voices", and to make his slashes more destructive by coating them with a variation of ki (because let's be honest, that's what CoA is).

To say that Zoro would reject the use of haki even if he could naturally learn it is just idiotic. It requires no use of outside aid, and Zoro already proved that he was willing to be "taught".

guess who

i would love to see ussop with CoC.

Cutty Fram

i'm sure the whole crew will learn and master haki

Cymelion

@Cutty:

i'm sure the whole crew will learn and master haki

Probably not - Haki users are few and far between.

Besides a crew full of Haki users would be OP as hell.

Kishido

Only Hordy will learn it

Cymelion

@KiShiDo:

Only Hordy will learn it

Hope springs forth eternal huh

Kishido

@Cymelion:

Hope springs forth eternal huh

Why hope? :wassat:

Cymelion

@KiShiDo:

Why hope? :wassat:

Well because without more foundation behind it - Hope is all you can base it on at this stage.

Polygon

@Beowulf89:

I'm of two minds in regards to Haki.

Basically, I don't think that Zoro will get any real advantage against Mihawk that has nothing to do with swordplay. So, if Mihawk has some Haki powers, Zoro will have at least some.

But I don't think Mihawk uses Haki. Because throughout the series, you see Zoro look down on people who call themselves swordsmen, and then rely on gimmicks. He won't let Usopp use Dials to upgrade his swords, for example. He didn't think of taking Funkfreed, despite losing one of his swords only seconds earlier, and went for generic, nameless blades instead. If Zoro found out part of Mihawk's strength was that he could know an opponent's action before he acted, he'd be disappointed. I think, by extension, just as Mihawk is simply "the best swordsman," Zoro will reach the top of the world, merely by being the best swordsman possible.

**You are not understanding what Haki is. Haki is not just some special power, it's the natural progression of your strength. An intrinsic part of human nature. Haki is a part of swordsmanship in the same way being physically strong or fast is a part of your swordsmanship. Haki is a real life concept present in ALL martial arts in one form or another. Sensing someone's presence, strengthening attacks with your will or intimidating the opponent are all things real life martial arts utilize heavily. Of course, in OP all of this is greatly exaggerated etc but it's still the same thing in essence.

So even if Mihawk uses Haki, and I guarantee you he does, he would still be utilizing pure swordsmanship because Haki is a part of swordsmanship. Saying that Haki is not a part of your swordsmanship is no different from saying that being physically strong has nothing to do with swordsmanship, or that having good reaction speed has nothing to do with swordsmanship.**

GoustiFruit

Sure, if Luffy's crew as to rival Shanks' at some point, it they have to fight admirals and BB pirates, they will have to have haki. Luffy will not always fight the 3 admirals by himself.
They probably won't master all colors of haki, but at least they will specialize in one. Even Chopper :-p Really, if you consider that Usopp for example will have to reach and overcome Yasopp level, it means that he will have to have some haki. So if Usopp can get Haki, then why not Chopper ?

Kishido

Why should all SHs have haki? Do we knows that all of the BBs have it? Or all of Shanks crew?

@Cymelion:

Well because without more foundation behind it - Hope is all you can base it on at this stage.

People are talking about ALL Shs having haki at the end without foundation… Why shouldn't awesome Hodi it as wll? ;-P

Cymelion

@GoustiFruit:

Sure, if Luffy's crew as to rival Shanks' at some point, it they have to fight admirals and BB pirates, they will have to have haki. Luffy will not always fight the 3 admirals by himself.
They probably won't master all colors of haki, but at least they will specialize in one. Even Chopper :-p Really, if you consider that Usopp for example will have to reach and overcome Yasopp level, it means that he will have to have some haki. So if Usopp can get Haki, then why not Chopper ?

You do not need Haki to beat someone with Haki.

Say someone is adept at CoO but not CoA Being hit with Thunder Lance Tempo will knock them out. CoO _Only applies to living people attacking.

CoA is fine but it's a battle of wills strength of mind vs brute strength, Awakened Zoan's have strength far beyond that of normal people I'm sure they can take down others.

Robin can create limbs anywhere - CoO might not be able to cope with it.

Remember the crew are stronger - Usopp having Haki bullets may be possible but lets be serious, Rayleigh was shown to believe that 2 years was only going to be "just" enough time to beat it into Luffy - he learnt it in 6 months suprising Rayleigh and Axe dude[can't remember name] that he even had it.

So while Zoro and Sanji are likely to have learnt a form of Haki - just blanketing it on the crew isn't doing them justice. For Luffy Haki is a must it means the strongest fighters are now on a more even ground - Zoro and Sanji allows for other top fighters to be controlled.

But For the whole crew to have it would simplify future battles too much unless everyone in the new world is using Haki which would be very lame - considering that the Supernovas went there without requiring it.

People are talking about ALL Shs having haki at the end without foundation… Why shouldn't awesome Hodi it as wll? ;-P

I wish you all the luck in that - personally don't see it happening [Hody joining] but well I'm not one to crush others dreams without a damn good solid reason._

rituel

obviously nami wont hv haki.. the monster 3 wil surely use haki and i hope usopp uses it too

Cymelion

@rituel:

obviously nami wont hv haki.. the monster 3 wil surely use haki and i hope usopp uses it too

Wouldn't that go against the design of Usopp being the "normal" one?

triforcebih

@Cymelion:

Wouldn't that go against the design of Usopp being the "normal" one?

Haki is normal, it's willpower. Everyone has it you just gotta activate it.

Kishido

@Cymelion:

I wish you all the luck in that - personally don't see it happening [Hody joining] but well I'm not one to crush others dreams without a damn good solid reason.

I have no base to say he will join… and never meant that... But he will of course appear in the future again

He is a motherfucking WHITE SHARK. And all people know that white sharks are awesome.

mcdreamy

I think its better to compare haki to ki. It's basically the same thing. Everybody has it, but training it will make you exponentially stronger. And basic COC is like one of those ki blasts that only affect people without proper control of their ki. Since swordsmen train their spirit/ki anyway zoro should have no problem. If left alone it would take many years to obtain the level he'd be at if someone trained in the basics now. (COC is probably more special than an ordinary ki blast but that was just an example)

Cymelion

@triforcebih:

Haki is normal, it's willpower. Everyone has it you just gotta activate it.

DAMN IT :ermm:

And I have used that - pulled up the pages and used it to win arguments too.

Ok but while everyone "has" it not many unlock it - Usopp may can't deny it is possible but I doubt it due to how op it may make him.

But out of the crew not in the Monster Trio he is perhaps the most likely to get it and benifit from it having a sling shot like weapon.

@KiShiDo:

I have no base to say he will join… and never meant that... But he will of course appear in the future again

He is a motherfucking WHITE SHARK. And all people know that white sharks are awesome.

You know that bro-fist

Kishido

@Cymelion:

You know that bro-fist

bro fist for Hordy

Mr. Sandman

@KiShiDo:

I have no base to say he will join… and never meant that... But he will of course appear in the future again

He is a motherfucking WHITE SHARK. And all people know that white sharks are awesome.

Whale sharks are cool too kids.

Kishido

And White Sharks for cool men

Mr. Sandman

White sharks are jerks though. Whale sharks are super friendly.

Kishido

Super friendly = boring

Or why are people like Zoro or Croc so popular? Cuz they are bad-asses and a bit "evil" looking

Technique

This post is deleted!

Mr. Sandman

You have a point there…..

Whale sharks are badass too though because they helped out during the jailbreak. All the white sharks were like "I'm too scared to go to impel down".

No Maam

@Mr.:

White sharks are jerks though. Whale sharks are super friendly.

The best sharks are Goblin Sharks.

Kishido

They weren't called and they don't listen to anyone like Croc

Jacoobus

@KiShiDo:

Super friendly = boring

Or why are people like Zoro or Croc so popular? Cuz they are bad-asses and a bit "evil" looking

So you think Luffy is boring?

Just because characters with a dark edge to them tend to be popular doesn't make characters without that edge boring. It all depends how they're developed and presented to us.

Kishido

Luffy ia bad-ass from time to time and main character. And is he a whale shark or white shark?

We are comparing this two

Mr. Sandman

But…you just compared White sharks to crocodile & zoro.

Kishido

Zoro is stated by Oda to resemble a shark and Crocodiles are living in water as well

Jacoobus

@KiShiDo:

Luffy ia bad-ass from time to time and main character. And is he a whale shark or white shark?

We are comparing this two

Don't be stupid we are comparing Jinbe and Hodi, and while I agree with you that Hodi will probably become a popular side character. Jinbe is clearly both more friendly AND more badass.

Kishido

Jinbei is more friendly. more bad-ass is an opinion. I disagree

Jacoobus

Whether you agree or not it's about how Oda has set the characters up. Jinbe is an OG and Hodi is a young punk. They will both get character development this arc and the young punk will grow up a bit, but that dynamic will not change.

Of course neither will the trend of fanboys like you jumping all over whatever amusing new side characters Oda introduces. I remember how much you loved Jinbe originally too. Apparently now he's boring compared to Hodi, who was just introduced five chapters ago and we still know almost nothing about.