One Piece Overrated?

asm00200

@THE:

The Ravages of Time.

Thanks Sea. I already like it from the name only.

On topic: One piece is underrated and overrated.. and nigema looks average.

TLC

@Bill:

Whatever.

…

Funny how you don't even deny it.

@Bill:

Luffy Batter strikes back! The art didn't impress me, I thought it looked decent that's it. I not qulaified to judge art because of that? That's hilarious.

You're not qualified because you're clearly raising your expectations to Seinen manga level just so you won't admit you're wrong and as a result you're calling very good art "decent" whilst barely giving it any analysis

@Bill:

What else there was nothing in what posted that would bring in any significant art analysis. I more than qualified to judge art but you on the other hand….

My point proven.

@Bill:

Not really, but when its uber generic like Negima Its not funny I expect a little bit of orginality.

What the hell is so super generic about it? It's full of life, energy and passion with a large variety in character designs and expressions. You want generic, soulless art look at Bleach where all the faces are the same.

@Bill:

http://static.animekiwi.com/images/upload/mahou-sensei-negima.jpg

Oh wow, that sure puts me in my place. Not.

!

@Bill:

Not really.

Yeah really.

@Bill:

Okay, but do the designs look like this?

http://static.animekiwi.com/images/upload/mahou-sensei-negima.jpg

They also look like this

!

Bill

Negima looks pretty awful, now I can udnerstand folks thinking I'm being narrowminded with the art, similar to many folks that drop One Piece because of the style.

But come on!

http://tugaleres.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/negima.jpg

Mastello

…Yeah, I don't know why but I just somehow prefer that art Sea posted to some random Negima pages.

TLC

@Bill:

Negima looks pretty awful, now I can udnerstand folks thinking I'm being narrowminded with the art, similar to many folks that drop One Piece because of the style.

But come on!

http://tugaleres.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/negima.jpg

You could try linking some actual manga pages as colored pages tend to have less detail. Though really apart from the goofy island and sea at the back, what the hell is wrong with the character art?

Nolus

To be fair, the ones Sea has posted took longer.
That's said, I still think Negima's art isn't that special. It looks nice, but I'll forget those faces/designs in no time.
What I mean, is that the art is decent, but hasn't got any charm that could grab my interest.

Bill

Ugh, the responses are in the quote this time around.

@Thousand:

…

Funny how you don't even deny it.

No, I don't deny because I just don't care what you accuse me of doing.
I find the designs incredilby dull, and unexciting. Thye don't appeal to me at all.

You're not qualified because you're clearly raising your expectations to Seinen manga level just so you won't admit you're wrong and as a result you're calling very good art "decent" whilst barely giving it any analysis

Really? I wasn't raising my expectations to seinen level. But I at least want something that looks bearable. It's not all that spectacular, character wise y facial expressions look bland as hell to me.

My point proven.

You accused me of not being qualified to judge art because I wasn;'t all that impressed with what you posted. I may have quoted Sea's pics but that's because of the great variety and uniqueness in them. Designs don't have to be wholly orginal as long as you give your own spin on them,
Negima's style is the most forgettlble style I've ever seen.

What the hell is so super generic about it? It's full of life, energy and passion with a large variety in character designs and expressions. You want generic, soulless art look at Bleach where all the faces are the same.

The designs son, the designs. Bleach is souless, but it dosen't look as disgustingly generic as Negima. Yeah 90% of the cast looks like Ichigo's but there some variety in them, and design doesn't look appaling like NEGIMA

Oh wow, that sure puts me in my place. Not.

! http://6.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/27-246.0/compressed/lmsn_c246_09.jpg

Meh.

Yeah really.

No not really, sorry. It just isn't my style that I like.

They also look like this

! http://6.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/27-242.0/compressed/msn_c242_02.jpg

! http://7.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/33-304.0/compressed/knegima_304_09.jpg

! http://5.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/34-314.0/compressed/cmahou_sensei_negima_ch314_15.jpg

Those look bland and uninteresting. Luffy Batter come on this is not impressing me at all. With Kubo for all his faults at least adds flavor to his designs like his hallow mask from time to time Negima looks….

You could try linking some actual manga pages as colored pages tend to have less detail. Though really apart from the goofy island and sea at the back, what the hell is wrong with the character art?

EVERYTHING

http://anime.advancedmn.com/images/media/negi14.jpg

Bill

@Nolus:

To be fair, the ones Sea has posted took longer.
That's said, I still think Negima's art isn't that special. It looks nice, but I'll forget those faces/designs in no time.
What I mean, is that the art is decent, but hasn't got any charm that could grab my interest.

Agreed. Exactly my stance.

city_lights31

http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=13683

^^This thread is turning into what I had hoped that this thread would be. It's crazy to see the difference in the quality of the pictures that Sea has posted and the Negima art. btw, whoever posted the Negima stuff, I am not saying it is poor - even if it doesn't necessarily grab my eye (and I have to admit it looks pretty generic to me as well.) That is not to say I would never give Negima a try - maybe one day (shrugs).

Sea, you should tell us what comic's some of those came from (save for the Ravages of Time). Cool stuff.

Suicu

Wow, awesome pages and spreads, Sea.

And Negimas Design is quite generic, I'm not very fond of it. Maybe its like Nolus said…
I dunno, something is always bothering me about the characters and their movements. They seem so...static, stiff?

Oh, and One Piece isn't overrated.

Khamolen

@Thousand:

They also look like this

! http://6.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/27-242.0/compressed/msn_c242_02.jpg

! http://7.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/33-304.0/compressed/knegima_304_09.jpg

! http://5.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/34-314.0/compressed/cmahou_sensei_negima_ch314_15.jpg

Awesome, a Hiro Mashima character and some Yu-Gi-Oh monsters.

demonkicksanji

Well, if anything this thread has reminded me of my love for the Negima manga. I will agree with those that said that the art looks "generic," but that's an argument that's been long past, especially since a good number of the girls look and act almost identical to the Love Hina characters. For me, a more simplistic style works well for Negima, just like Oda's design/style fits One Piece for his needs. If anything, I always felt Negima did something right since despite its huge cast, I actually care, know, and can "distinguish" each of the characters. But to each their own, personally, some of those "seinen" pages shown last page didn't really interest me…but again, it's a matter of tastes and the willingness to give new manga and art styles a try that ends up being a key factor to what one will or will not like.

Gekko135

You tried the Manhwa Shin Angyo Onshi Sea?

Art is pretty good. A little more anime styled, but I feel it's quite decent and well detailed.

Doesn't hurt that the story is very engaging too.

mechysonu

Has any one read blade of the immortal; the art work in that series is pretty good. Especially when the blood splashes. There are a ton of underrated manga that are very good.

JERK DISEASE

@Thousand:

How about you…I don't know... give it a chance to grow on you like you did with One Piece (I'm seriously doubtful that you automatically fell in love with One Piece's art style) and not let your preconceptions on the kind of manga you think it is hamper your judgment?

More art.

! http://5.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/20-186.0/compressed/MSN_ch186_pg12_13.jpg

! http://3.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/21-187.0/compressed/MSN_ch187_pg02_03.jpg

! http://3.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/71/21-187.0/compressed/MSN_ch187_pg08.jpg

None of the art is impressive at all, there are tons of middle of the road mangas that look like that, you are absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel if those are supposed to be blowing me away, and yes I did love One Piece from the start art wise. It was quick and instantaneous.

Negima's character designs are objectively horrible.
The reason I posted that picture was because all those girls were like Mii pallet swaps. How does someone draw upwards of 30 people and be that goddamned untalented in variations.

Nothing whatsoever about Negima sounds interesting in the slightest, in fact everything I've ever seen of it makes it sound like the exact reason I don't actually like anime.

JERK DISEASE

@Thousand:

You're not qualified because you're clearly raising your expectations to Seinen manga level just so you won't admit you're wrong and as a result you're calling very good art "decent" whilst barely giving it any analysis

National Coronation Day has better art than Negima.

You know why?

Because it has more soul, more design sense, a more singular tone and voice in it. It's engaging. And yes I'm tooting my own horn, but only because this isn't much of a toot.

If you think because Negima meets the technical standards of being competent, that this translates to either "successful" or god forbid "great" then you really know absolutely nothing about art, literally.

Technique isn't shit without vision and soul. And Negima looks like thousands of other mangas. Do not bring it's art in here, and definitely don't bring up any bullshit about seinen.

Dragonball, early Naruto, One Piece, Slam Dunk, Rurouni Kenshin, even Shaman King for all it's many sins, have better art than does Negima.

Hell even Bleach did when it started out.

KISAME

One Piece is the best shonen manga ever its not overrated.

JERK DISEASE

Come on TLS, I haven't had a good art fight in ages. Hit me back, throw a punch.

Bring it.
cbfGkiecl2M&showinfo=0

Bill

Jerk, I still think Naruto part 2 looks somewhat better than Negima, at least for all it's sins the designs aren't mindboggling horrific.

JERK DISEASE

BITCH, you was browsing then you weren't!!!!
Get back in here TLS!!!!

RoWvNuXiZt8&showinfo=0

Protect ya neck!!! I'm bloodthirsty!!! And need something to do before I go eat at i-Hop and maybe romance a honey!!! Bring IT NIGGA.

Airflow

@Bill:

Jerk, I still think Naruto part 2 looks somewhat better than Negima, at least for all it's sins the designs aren't mindboggling horrific.

That's a little harsh, part 2 Naruto is unbelievably bland and shitty at parts.

JERK DISEASE

Naruto Part 2 shouldn't even be considered art. It's just a guy giving up trying because he doesn't care anymore.

Havoc

I never could get into Negima I don't even know why. Maybe it's because I never found any of the characters likeable, art is nothing that would bother me about a manga with a good plot/characters. I loved Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro which has really amateurish art. But that's probably what made me like it in the first place because it didn't have that terribly generic Mashima art style.

Suicu

@Airflow:

That's a little harsh, part 2 Naruto is unbelievably bland and shitty at parts.

I must agree. Even though Negimas Art is quite generic and not as good like other examples, the artist still cares and draws neat and detailled, while Kishimoto has many proportion issues and his drawings became very scruffy.

JERK DISEASE

What the fuck is wrong with scruffy art. Vagabond and Blade of the Immortal are incredibly scruffy.

Are you the same sorry niggas who can't enjoy a picasso painting.

JERK DISEASE

This is me getting ready for the fight.
6aumejrcEHs&showinfo=0

Nobodyman

The problem with Naruto 2's art isn't that it's scruffy. It's that it's bland as shit.

Soulless. Lifeless. Virtually impossible to invoke any sort of emotion other than raw disgust (and that's the worst kind of disgust).

Suicu

Uuuh, I think I used the wrong word, haha. I mean unclean, bland, in the sense of "I do not care anymore". Or this:

Really, I like scruffy art and with your examples it looks really great. Just the wrong wording, sorry for the misunderstanding.

JERK DISEASE

It shOuld be scruffy. Part 1 was scruffy comparitively.

Naruto Part 2 is absolutely souless.

Also I pretty much have to leave now gggrrr, you knew I would have to leave TLC.

But you'll regret waiting! I may be drunk when I get back!

TLC

@JERK:

BITCH, you was browsing then you weren't!!!!
Get back in here TLS!!!!

RoWvNuXiZt8&showinfo=0

Protect ya neck!!! I'm bloodthirsty!!! And need something to do before I go eat at i-Hop and maybe romance a honey!!! Bring IT NIGGA.

I'll gladly defend my second favorite series from you Zephos BUT not here. I want this in the Negima thread. I'm too worried about derailing this thread and I don't like the atmosphere here either. It ain't running away, you can paste your posts exactly how they are here. Just move the locale. Keep your blood lust in check though, it ain't happening now. I'll get back to you in about sixteen hours (8 hours sleep, 8 hours labwork at uni plus transport). Just leave the posts there, I'll get to them tomorrow. Bill, you're an idiot. Before, I was willing to accept your point of view about the art not being so hot, now with your Naruto comment…

TLC

@JERK:

It shOuld be scruffy. Part 1 was scruffy comparitively.

Naruto Part 2 is absolutely souless.

Also I pretty much have to leave now gggrrr, you knew I would have to leave TLC.

But you'll regret waiting! I may be drunk when I get back!

That's good then. Till tomorrow.

JERK DISEASE

@Thousand:

I'll gladly defend my second favorite series from you Zephos BUT not here. I want this in the Negima thread. I'm too worried about derailing this thread and I don't like the atmosphere here either. It ain't running away, you can paste your posts exactly how they are here. Just move the locale. Keep your blood lust in check though, it ain't happening now. I'll get back to you in about sixteen hours (8 hours sleep, 8 hours labwork at uni plus transport). Just leave the posts there, I'll get to them tomorrow. Bill, you're an idiot. Before, I was willing to accept your point of view about the art not being so hot, now with your Naruto comment…

2c3Y2i-1mD0&showinfo=0

Castelmore

This post is deleted!

Tsukishima

I guess the number of posts in the Negima thread will double in only one week.

maxterdexter

Houshin Engi. The first manga that I readed.

It was weird art wise. The characters were unique and distinctive, but they all, even the girls, had gigant disney-krusty-like feet.

The main character went into SD way too many times for my liking.

It's pretty fun and memorable, even if the ending was kind of rushed, and had one too many plotwist.

Trafalgar Law

As an example, I prefer any of Fukumoto's art (and works, in general – even the early stuff) to Akamatsu's Negima. As mentioned before, palette swaps and uninteresting characters.

Impressive artwork?

Try Otoyomegatari, Zetman, Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou, or Akumetsu. Four random manga I've read that came to mind when thinking of "impressive".

THE SEA

@Trafalgar:

As an example, I prefer any of Fukumoto's art (and works, in general – even the early stuff) to Akamatsu's Negima. As mentioned before, palette swaps and uninteresting characters.

Impressive artwork?

Try Otoyomegatari, Zetman, Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou, or Akumetsu. Four random manga I've read that came to mind when thinking of "impressive".

Whoa, someone else who read Otoyomegatari. That manga is…beautiful. I rarely liked romance but I loved it.
@Gekko135:

You tried the Manhwa Shin Angyo Onshi Sea?

Art is pretty good. A little more anime styled, but I feel it's quite decent and well detailed.

Doesn't hurt that the story is very engaging too.

I tend to post the less popular ones.

Bill

@Thousand:

I'll gladly defend my second favorite series from you Zephos BUT not here. I want this in the Negima thread. I'm too worried about derailing this thread and I don't like the atmosphere here either. It ain't running away, you can paste your posts exactly how they are here. Just move the locale. Keep your blood lust in check though, it ain't happening now. I'll get back to you in about sixteen hours (8 hours sleep, 8 hours labwork at uni plus transport). Just leave the posts there, I'll get to them tomorrow. Bill, you're an idiot. Before, I was willing to accept your point of view about the art not being so hot, now with your Naruto comment…

Now, now Batter just because I don't see Kishimoto's art like you infamously said 'a disgrace to manga' doesn't mean I don't consider it terrible, with Kishimoto he can still pump up some decent designs like Hidan and Kakuzu and sockpein and the art can be impressive like the Kyuubi scene, or the rain village with Pain which surpasses anything in Negima that you have shown me . Actually Negima is better than part 2 Naruto in terms of consistency and dedication, with Kishimoto it's simply the matter of a manga that continued longer then it needed to, so naturally it would degrade. The author is clearly apathetic about his comic. It's really lifeless and he has a shading impediment, if anything Negima merely wins by default for at least have some form dedication to it, unlike Naruto which is now the fat haspen and sad reflection of it's former self but design wise I pick Naruto for obvious reasons. I have to say you of all people calling me an idiot puts a big smile on my face, it encourages me.Thanks Batter, I won't call you any names back because I want to be the mature one and I don't want to sink to your level which a really low level to sink to.

mechysonu

The the thing with Naruto is that kishi doesn't care anymore, he has no passion. I can see it very clearly that in his tiny little eyes that he does not want to do this anymore. I've heard rumour suggesting kishi is fed up with naruto and just wants to end it. When you have no passion everything breaks down, story, characters and especially the art. For instance, wtf happened to sage mode, now he looks like an orange lightbulb. Is he gonna use sage mode again or is that gonna be another one of kishi's plot holes.

*** Hey guys, just started readin Otoyomegatari, doesn't seem that bad, anybody else know any other good manga's to read. I am currently reading blade of the immortal and its pretty good. I would recommend it as well. Anybody heard good things about Vagabond, I've gotten mixed opinions about that series

THE SEA

!

Trafalgar Law

Try out Team Medical Dragon and Sun-Ken Rock. Random likes from my end.

Bill

Sea why don't you post a comparison to Naruto part. 2 to it's former glory self? Since we are talking about Naruto abit…

THE SEA

Try out Ashina and Evercrave.:ninja:
@Bill:

Sea why don't you post a comparison to Naruto part. 2 to it's former glory self? Since we are talking about Naruto abit…

I never downloaded Naruto to my computer and I don't want to go through the web.
I only download good manga.

Bill

Naruto was good until the Sasuke nonsense started.

THE SEA

!

Silverblade

Otoyomegatari isn't much of a romance. You could put it under "slice of life", but I despise this name. The most accurate genre for it would probably be "historical drama".

THE SEA

Beat this, Gon.

!

Zack

You ever realize that moment where you think you've read a pretty good amount of manga, and then see a bunch of stuff, and realize you haven't read squash. That about sums up my feelings right now.

Bill

@Airflow:

That's a little harsh, part 2 Naruto is unbelievably bland and shitty at parts.

Yes, but in a way you have some sporadic good art like Rain village scene or the Madara flashback with the Kyuubi, and some interesting designs like SockPein, and Hidan and Kakuzu( which surpasses anything in Negima for me) Negima surpasses Naruto in general passionate appliance to the design and background with Naruto it's an victim of the authors apathy and growing longing to move on to something else, after drawing the same thing for a over a decade. The art looks like a coloring book, the perspectives look lifeless and messy and so and so on. In terms character design Naruto part 2 wins but in terms of general art consistency in backgrounds and appliance to atmosphere I will begrudgingly give it to Negima(ugh)

Anyone anticipating Jerk vs Batter?

THE SEA

!

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Even Berserk cannot cope with this insanity (NSFW):

!

!

Ryu: The strongest man in the face of the planet. He is too awesome and insanely badass so God wants to destroy him before he awaken as the Antichrist. SO he revived his son, the king of kings, Jesus Christ, to deal with him. Jesus then uses his necromantic powers to enlist two of history’s greatest ass-kickers, Bruce Lee and Miyamoto Musashi, as his generals.

!

Why Go Nagai is one class above Miura.
Geki-man, a Go Nagai's classic:

! > Geki Man

Title: Gekiman (激マン) Lit: Hardcore-Man
Serialized in: Shukan Manga Goraku, 2010-present
Art and story by: Nagai Go and Dynamic Pro
Genre: Respect knuckles essay manga

What it's about:

1972 saw Japan riveted to the television in fear and revulsion. The United Red Army marched into homes with a marathon broadcast of the Asama-Sanso Incident, followed by the Lod Airport massacre in Tal Aviv. Yokoi Shoichi, a WWII holdout, returned home alive “with much embarrassment” after slinking in the jungles of Guam for nearly 20 years. And America had re-launched its mass bombings of Vietnam. If your job is to create dynamic, provocative imagery, how do you compete with the classic, chilling photograph of children running mortified from the acrid smoke of napalm death?

If you were Nagai Go, you’d start with something like this:

Gekiman is the autobiographical account of a young Nagai Go struggling to break out of his typecasting as the go-to guy for gag manga by breaking into the sophisticated world of story manga. Once establishing himself with bawdy comedies like Harenchi Gakuen (Shameless School) and Abashiri Ikka (The Abashiri Family), he experimented with a pair of dark adult narrative works, Oni and Mao Dante (Demon Lord Dante). Their critical successes propelled him to make the jump to primetime with his anti-social masterpiece that stained the verdant field of boy’s comics crimson with the blood of childhood innocence lost—Devilman.

Why it’s awesome:

These days there’s no shortage of guys making bank from the crude sketches you’d find in the notebooks of a junior high metalhead. Consciously or not, all of them are biting off a bit established by Nagai Go, the OG of hustling rudely drawn gore and tits for scratch. But he didn’t get rich overnight. He paid his dues as assistant to Ishinomori Shotaro, where he sacrificed sleep and shaved years off his life to produce prototype gag comics that would lead to his first serialized gig with Kodansha.

The man clawed his way up, and now that he’s at the top, he’s stretching his hand back down to help others make the climb.

The credits on the cover would lead you to believe that manga is one-man show, but in reality a successful author is more factory foreman than artist, juggling a team of talent to take care of everything from inking to backgrounds to character designs and even story development! Nagai Go has always been up front with crediting his team, Dynamic Pro, and with Gekiman he throws back the curtain to reveal each member, their artistic contribution to the big picture, and how hopelessly screwed he would be without all of them storming ahead at full steam every single day.

Nagai Go does more than just tip his hand. He lays his cards onto the table and goes all in. Names are dropped and shout outs leap from the page. No human work is created in a vacuum, and anyone who implies otherwise is a fraud and a thief. You get the feeling that he's trying to set the record straight. My best ideas actually belong to everyone else.

Bird-woman and woman-bird are two very different things.

One issue is dedicated to Tsuji Masaki, scriptwriter for the Devilman anime and all-around mystery buff, and how he fed Go the design for the iconic harpy-demon Silene. Incidentally, Nagai Go was grateful for having another pair of breasts to draw, and his editor was grateful for another outlet to crank up the nudity in the manga to differentiate it from the family-friendly anime.

There’s more to Gekiman than anecdotes from behind the drawing board at Kodansha. It represents manga’s oldest bad boy falling into step with the subliminal wave sweeping the industry at large.

Nagai Go’s development as an author mirrors the evolution of the medium. Cheap gag comics got the ball rolling and paved the way for character-driven story manga, which widened the playing field, allowing experience-centric essay manga to drive in a wedge and stake their claim. Though not in a position to usurp the throne, essay manga have been gradually picking up steam by combining the timing of gag manga and the narrative techniques of story manga. Oishinbo, My Darling is a Foreigner, and A Drifting Life are all excellent examples of the variety within the genre. With Gekiman, Nagai Go admits that the greatest story he has left to tell is the facts surrounding his fiction.

Why it won’t come out in America:

I’m sure many readers of the blog are familiar with the Devilman anime, but let’s see a show of hands from those of you that have read the actual manga. And I don’t mean the nostril-augmented monstrosity, Shin-Devilman, released by Danzig and Verotix. Scanlations don’t count either. That leaves either you who sluthed out the bilingual edition (Japan only, naturally), or those that hunkered down with the original moon language. In either case, it means you were forced to jump through flaming hoops for the privilege to read a cornerstone of the medium that should be readily available!

It’s almost as if there’s a conspiracy keeping Nagai Go's works quarantined to Japan.

Bone-crunching fight scenes, snot-nosed adolescents piloting giant robots, smutty hijinks rendered innocent by their sincerity—Japan’s greatest cultural products, both domestic and international, were first manufactured by Nagai Go and Dynamic Pro, but the profits for exports went straight to his predecessors. It’s a damn shame that the West has systematically been denied the chance to know the genesis behind its favorite “original” stories.

Three things Nagai Go hates: Hippies, drawing clothes on women, and people that borrow his car without filling the gas tank.

I wonder if Iwaashi Hitoshi would blush if you pointed out Parasyte is Devilman with tree hugging instead of nuclear war. Or if Miura Kentaro would openly admit that, yes, Guts and Griffith are essentially Akira and Ryo. I’m sure Anno Hideaki would break into a cold sweat if you showed him a side-by-side comparison of The End of Evangelion and Devilman's devise final scenes.

There’s a tacit understanding that no idea is truly original, and that it doesn’t matter where you got something, but where you take it. Still, credit earned is credit due. The class of authors inspired by Devilman will be remembered for their contributions to the next generation of manga-ka, while the man who laid the foundation they built their carnival tents on will be disregarded as embarrassingly old hat within a generation. And saddest of all, the West never had a chance to pick him up before unceremoniously dropping him with the recognition he deserved.
There, he said it. Guts and Griffith are essentially Akira and Ryo.