Katekyo Hitman REBORN! Discussion
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God, hasn't Amano EVER heard of foreshadowing?
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Well that was a surprise. I expected Daemon to pull an Aizen and instead got a Crocodile.
Everything else went as expected.
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Seriously the dude is really a fucking Aizen…
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Seriously the dude is really a fucking Aizen…
How is he an Aizen? It's not like he magically switched places with, say, Adelheid or Bianchi suddenly when they were nowhere near the confrontation… he just created an illusion and moved behind his opponent. That's not that unrealistic...
And this was foreshadowed. We saw Byakuran come in and heal Takeshi about ten chapters ago… we knew he was going to show up sooner or later. How Byakuran healed him and where he came from will probably be explained next chapter. I think you just want to complain for the sake of complaining.
Chapter was fine. Let's see what's next.
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@Fire Fist:
How is he an Aizen? It's not like he magically switched places with, say, Adelheid or Bianchi suddenly when they were nowhere near the confrontation… he just created an illusion and moved behind his opponent. That's not that unrealistic...
He's Aizen insofar that he's another arrogant, egotistic, untouchable overlord without a shred of personality except for annoying smugness, who's always ten steps ahead of everyone else and he uses illusions to boot.
@Fire Fist:
And this was foreshadowed. We saw Byakuran come in and heal Takeshi about ten chapters ago… we knew he was going to show up sooner or later. How Byakuran healed him and where he came from will probably be explained next chapter. I think you just want to complain for the sake of complaining.
We got two panels of Byakuran hanging around his bed. That's a huge jump going from there to him fully recovering, getting on the island and starting fights. Hardly adequate foreshadowing.
@Fire Fist:
Chapter was fine. Let's see what's next.
This chapter was pretty mediocre bordering on terrible given the sudden Yamamoto appearance and the forced friendship drama. WHY SAVE ME!?! T____T bloo bloo bloo
On another note do you even hate anything? It's like you're a black hole of low standards. Everything mediocre is sucked in and turned into "fine".
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This chapter was pretty awesome. When Daemon was about to strike I was like "c'mon show up Yamamoto… f*ck yeah!" I'm glad to see him back in the game, but given the theory I shared with you all awhile ago, there's no way Daemon's going down here.
I'm looking forward to next week's chapter
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Wait are people really complaining about Byakuran fully healing Yammato ?
Good chapter people are looking to find fault in things when there's nothing to find fault in. Unless of course people really that that Spade was going to get stabbed.
Anyone for those who enjoyed the chapter and aren't complaining just for the sake of complaining anyone check out Gokudera facial expression on the last panel ?
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I don't really think it was a good chapter.
I don't really think it was any more terrible than a lot of Reborn chapters, though.
Meh, to all the developments.
Sigh, to Chrome.
I really hate smug illusionist chessmasters though (they are the DULLEST villains, right next to the first chapter / episode HULKING BRUISER archetype), so I can sympathize with TLS.
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@Thousand:
God, hasn't Amano EVER heard of foreshadowing?
It was foreshadowed just not greatly foreshadowed is all.
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C'mom now TLS not all manga can have foreshadowing like Negima.
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Oh god that dialogue alone:
''My powers are not only..I also have..with a helping of..blabla I'm the fucking Juggernaut''For my reaction to this please refer to GetsugaZoro's avatar.
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@Fire Fist:
How is he an Aizen? It's not like he magically switched places with, say, Adelheid or Bianchi suddenly when they were nowhere near the confrontation… he just created an illusion and moved behind his opponent. That's not that unrealistic...
And this was foreshadowed. We saw Byakuran come in and heal Takeshi about ten chapters ago… we knew he was going to show up sooner or later. How Byakuran healed him and where he came from will probably be explained next chapter. I think you just want to complain for the sake of complaining.
Chapter was fine. Let's see what's next.
I have nothing to say about Yamamoto ofc we knew about it and it didnt bother me, I was talking about Daemon and TLS explained already why he is an Aizen.
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I gotta admit, I'm finding these recent KHR chapters more interesting than Naruto or Bleach. Even if the pacing/foreshadowing has gone to shit.
I fucking hate Chrome though. The fact that the Japanese fucking love her just makes me roll my eyes at them. Yes, love the docile, easily influenced female. Ignore the kickass ones.
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I gotta admit, I'm finding these recent KHR chapters more interesting than Naruto or Bleach. Even if the pacing/foreshadowing has gone to shit.
I fucking hate Chrome though. The fact that the Japanese fucking love her just makes me roll my eyes at them. Yes, love the docile, easily influenced female. Ignore the kickass ones.
I'm with you on that. There's nothing I hate more than the typical break the cutie scheme which has been going on the past chapters. It's even worse because Chrome is pretty much the only female in the series with the potential to kick ass along with Adelheid. Also that infatuation with Mokuro is kind of going nowhere I'd like to see her stand up for herself for once.
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Cool chap. Pretty predictable and cliche though.
If you didn't know Byakuran was gonna heal Yammato for w/e reason don't know what to tell you for not being able to see that coming. Only other option was he was there for revenge cuz he got memories for the future and was gonna kill Yammato which of course wouldn't happen.
What separates Daemon from Aizen is that he has a clear goal and a reason for what he's doing and for that reason he wants to make a stronger Vonogla. Why? That'll most likely be explained after he fails or during the moment he almost succeeds unlike how Aizen wants to see the king but never got to and we never find out why and may never again.
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I gotta admit, I'm finding these recent KHR chapters more interesting than Naruto or Bleach. Even if the pacing/foreshadowing has gone to shit.
I fucking hate Chrome though. The fact that the Japanese fucking love her just makes me roll my eyes at them. Yes, love the docile, easily influenced female. Ignore the kickass ones.
Indeed she is the less appealing character in the whole manga or maybe atleast from the guardians(even though she isnt one), I can't bring myself to feel any excitment any time she appears.
Japanese are pervs.
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Love the chapter! (Big Fan of Yamamoto) It was quite obvious he was going to appear more sooner than latter anyway, just like Hibari did, so i didnt mind that. About the Sand powers, well they kind of have a connections with illusions, a mirage in the desert for example.
This arc is one of the best so far, i love the fact that we don't have any annoying girl in this adventure. (Don`t ever comeback :ninja:)
And if One Piece has teach us something, is that you need water to beat a sand enemy. And who best than Yamamoto, to bring the water to this manga.
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yep, didn't think that wound was gonna stick. Also, fuck chrome. seriously.
and whoa yamamoto comes in out of nowhere to be the big damn hero, whatta surprise.
also what was that bullshit about Hibari being low on power?
"you are all out of flames"
"no I'm not"
"oh you called my bluff"
no shit sherlock, Hibari never runs out of power. Mukurou broke his bones, and gave him a debilitating disease, and Hibari still didnt' afraid of anything. -
ah the mukuro arc
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he's officially aizen
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someone should edit Karou saying AIZEN instead of DAEMON.
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Hibari and Yamamoto are the only reasons why I read this manga. …if that makes sense.
I was soooo glad to see Yamamoto finallyyyy.~ And Hibari was holding me over with his awesomeness - -
I had a feeling Yamamoto would show up, about damn time.
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now we may get a chance to see the Rain Vongola Gear next week.
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Yeah finally.. yamamoto is one of my favorit character so glad to see him back… now lets see how he does and how he got all better and could make it to the island so fast
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wait how the hell did Yamamoto get inside the chromes barrier
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wait how the hell did Yamamoto get inside the chromes barrier
umm… he's outside it, hence why he stopped demon spade?
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Ok yeah i had who was in the barrier and who was out back to front
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Spoilers from MH and ohana
! 108 :ohana ◆IR7jauNn4E :2011/02/17(木) 00:18:33 ID:mwtDJyrWO
山本元気に二刀流。
水野、復習者に連れてかれて
皆に最後の記憶が頭の中に…
ボンゴレは助けに行っていた~
! で終わり。サーセイ★
119 :ohana ◆IR7jauNn4E :2011/02/17(木) 00:26:05 ID:mwtDJyrWO
山本変身グッツはネックレス
変身姿は、剣道着(防具なし)
Brief translation from Ayanami-Senna! Yamamoto use 2 swords.
Kaoru tells him what happened until then
Another memory is showed and Vongola was going to help Simon
Yamamoto's Vongola Gear is a necklace and with his cambio forma he transforms into a swordman without armor -
Pics
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I have to say, I really like Amano's coloring style. Chapter looks like it could be good.
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Judging from the small picture, that color page has no umph to it. I find no excitement from that picture. Than again the picture is really small.
other than that it looks great.
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Full script translation by Chuuni of MH
! Target 326: Truth
! Color page is Daemon vs Yamamoto
Flavor text: Yamamoto Takeshi intrudes to save his friends in peril!
! A bird’s eye view of the battlefield
Flavor text: The Vongola Guardian of Rain ready to join the battle!
! Kaoru crying: “Ya…Yamamoto…I’m sorry”
Yama: Haha, just leave it to me.
Tsuna wipes away a tear. “Yamamoto…I’m so glad! But are you alright?”
Daemon: “I don’t believe this. Who would have thought that the severely wounded Yamamoto Takeshi would be standing right before me.
Yama: “I don’t want to be told that by some ghost who should have died a long time ago.”
Daemon: “You don’t seem to be an illusion either…”
Yama: I was saved, by an acquaintance of yours.
Tsuna+Goku: “Eh? An acquaintance?”
Daemon: “I can’t remember anyone..but never mind.” he readies his scythe
“Seems like the plan to destroy you lot had gone awry, but I’ll return it to my original plan…with my own hands.”
Yama: “This is interesting! I was afraid it wouldn’t come to this. I’m looking forward to a real fight after such a long time!”
Hibari (With hibird on his head): “My prey…” [LOL HIBARI]
Goku: “But Yamamoto doesn’t have his VG!”
Yama: “Hehe, don’t worry. I’ve got it right here.”
Rain Necklace Ver. X!!
Tsuna: “Necklace! That’s Yamamoto’s VG!”
Goku: It’s been Version upped!
Yama: “Let’s go, Jirou, Kojirou! Cambio Forma!”
Jirou and Kojirou combines with Yamamoto. The Cambio forma is a Kendo uniform with wrist guards and sandles, and his inner lining is black.
Tsuna: “Double sword VG!”
Daemon: “Hoho, I hope that’s not just for looks!” He starts the attack
Yama stops Daemon’s attack with his right hand sword.
Daemon: “You would do better to mind your back as well”
Yama: “Huh?” Behind him, blades shoot out from the ground
Goku: “Behind you!”
Yama (From back): “!!”
Kaoru shielded for Yamamoto, and the blade pierces him in the stomach [Ouch…Kaoru….]
Suzuki: “!!”
Tsuna+Goku+Reborn are surprised
Suzuki: “KAORU!!
Kaoru: “Takeshi…you…should have been able to avoid that…but I…I wanted to repay you!!”
Yama: YOU IDIOT!!
Black mist emits from the ground.
Yama+co: “!!”
Vindice: “The outcome has been decided”
Kaoru’s neck was clamped with a collar.
Kaoru grunts as he was wrapped in chains.
Suzuki (losing her cool): “What are you doing Vindice! Kaoru hasn’t put his pride on the line in any battle yet!”
Vindice: “But the pride of this man has already been broken, therefore we see him as the defeated one.”
Kaoru: “Guh…I’m sorry, Adel…”
“My pride as a Simon is the resolve to do whatever it takes for the Simon…
But…to betray a friend that has been so kind to me…it’s too much
My heart has been hurting all this time…the crime I’ve committed…I want make up for it…
Yama: “You…”
Kaoru: “I don’t have any right to fight with the Vongola now…please forgive me”
Suzuki: “KAORU!!”
Tsuna watches in shock.
Daemon: “You were such a burden Mizuno Kaoru…but this time you’ve done something right, thanks to your loss, we’re going to see a fantastic show.”
Goku: “Show?”
Reborn: “The Primo’s past memories”
Vindice: “In view of the decided outcome, we give you the 5th key, this”
Vindice takes out a note with a Flame seal that was ripped in two.
Tsuna: “!!”
Goku: “A letter of some sort?”
Daemon: “You should all know what you’re going to see in this next memory”
Shocked faces of Tsuna and Suzuki
Daemon: “The last of Simon Cozart, whom was torn to pieces in my trap!”
The light of the 5th key shines on everyone’s foreheads…
! The top panels show Tsuna, Yama, Hibari, Daemon, Goku, Lambo, and Ryohei in Vindice
on the bottom are Enma(sleeping), Kaoru, Suzuki, Chrome, ShittP+Rauji+Aoba in Vindice
! -Memory from the past-
On the hills with lots of smoke.
We see (Daemon’s) subordinates with their faces covered by hoods. [I’m going to call them Sub1, Sub2 etc now]
Daemon: Good work
Sub1: “There are a great number of enemies surrounding the Simon Family but somehow they’re holding out.”
Sub2: “It’s only a matter of time before they’re done with.”
Daemon: “What a stubborn man you are, Simon Cozart.”
Sub2: “!?”
Daemon: “It seems that I would have to erase you.”
And then Daemon takes out the memo (that was the key) “Take this and go down to the Simon Family. Take out all of them and tear Simon Cozart to pieces. If you show him the Flame seal, they might think you’re on their side and let down their defenses.”
Subs: Understood.
! -In Giotto’s house-
Daemon drops to his knees, covered in wounds.
Giotto: “!! Daemon! Are you alright?!”
Daemon: “I’m terribly sorry!! There was an unexpected number of enemies and even my elite team was wiped out…”
Giotto: “!! Even your team!?” “I’m sorry…this is my responsibility! I should go!!”
Daemon: “It’s no use!”
Giotto: “No use…?”
Daemon drops his head in regret [OH YOU DAEMON YOU] “It was too late when we got there…Simon Cozart was…already dead…”
Giotto bites his lip.
Daemon: “We had wanted to bring back his remains, but…”
Giotto turns his back to Daemon: “…Is that so. I’m indebted to you, Daemon…”
Daemon shows his JUST AS PLANNED smile behind Giotto.
! A gunfight is breaking out in the town between the mountains.
Sub1: “Simon Cozart-sama”
Two men with guns and Simon Cozart sheltering in the shadows of abandoned house.
Sub2 shows them the memo with the flame seal. “We are the subordinates of Vongola Family’s Daemon Spade, we’ve come to save you.”
Cozart: “Don’t lie. Didn’t you come to kill us all by the orders of that man named Daemon?”
The hooded subordinates are all surprised.
Cozart: “As I thought…I knew there was a traitor amongst the Vongola.”
Sub1: “What!?”
Sub2: ………..
Cozart: “The letter I received was signed with “Primo”… Giotto would never call himself that with me.
The third piece of paper in the letter was a fake. I want to get to Giotto’s side..but it seems like Daemon Spade got to me first…
So it had to come to this…….”
Cozart’s forehead ignites with a flame and he raises his fists.
“But I’ll fight to the last! Even if my body should perish……” And his flame grows larger.
“For my family and my friend!!”
Simon Family member A: “Boss!”
Simon Family member B: “Us too!!”
Sub1: “………….”
Sub2: “Primo was even better with words than Daemon Spade was.” And then he tears the memo into two.
Cozart: “!?”
And the Subordinates place their hands to their faces “Our boss has seen through Daemon Spade’s plans” [Vongola Hyper Intuition?]
And you can see one of the subordinate’s lower chin…with a familiar looking flame-pattern tattoo…
“By the order of Vongola Primo…no”
They take off their hoods
“By the friendship you share with Giotto.”
They throw away the hood and Haoris.
“We will guard the Simon family—”
“AT ALL COSTS!”
And the 5 guardians, Alaudi with handcuffs, G with his bow, Lampow with his…pan? Ugetsu with sword at his waist, and Knuckle with his bible.
! Flavor text: The “rescuer” that had come!! Simon was saved…!! The knot in the true history is unravelling! -
Full script translation by Chuuni of MH
! Target 326: Truth
! Color page is Daemon vs Yamamoto
Flavor text: Yamamoto Takeshi intrudes to save his friends in peril!
! A bird’s eye view of the battlefield
Flavor text: The Vongola Guardian of Rain ready to join the battle!
! Kaoru crying: “Ya…Yamamoto…I’m sorry”
Yama: Haha, just leave it to me.
Tsuna wipes away a tear. “Yamamoto…I’m so glad! But are you alright?”
Daemon: “I don’t believe this. Who would have thought that the severely wounded Yamamoto Takeshi would be standing right before me.
Yama: “I don’t want to be told that by some ghost who should have died a long time ago.”
Daemon: “You don’t seem to be an illusion either…”
Yama: I was saved, by an acquaintance of yours.
Tsuna+Goku: “Eh? An acquaintance?”
Daemon: “I can’t remember anyone..but never mind.” he readies his scythe
“Seems like the plan to destroy you lot had gone awry, but I’ll return it to my original plan…with my own hands.”
Yama: “This is interesting! I was afraid it wouldn’t come to this. I’m looking forward to a real fight after such a long time!”
Hibari (With hibird on his head): “My prey…” [LOL HIBARI]
Goku: “But Yamamoto doesn’t have his VG!”
Yama: “Hehe, don’t worry. I’ve got it right here.”
Rain Necklace Ver. X!!
Tsuna: “Necklace! That’s Yamamoto’s VG!”
Goku: It’s been Version upped!
Yama: “Let’s go, Jirou, Kojirou! Cambio Forma!”
Jirou and Kojirou combines with Yamamoto. The Cambio forma is a Kendo uniform with wrist guards and sandles, and his inner lining is black.
Tsuna: “Double sword VG!”
Daemon: “Hoho, I hope that’s not just for looks!” He starts the attack
Yama stops Daemon’s attack with his right hand sword.
Daemon: “You would do better to mind your back as well”
Yama: “Huh?” Behind him, blades shoot out from the ground
Goku: “Behind you!”
Yama (From back): “!!”
Kaoru shielded for Yamamoto, and the blade pierces him in the stomach [Ouch…Kaoru….]
Suzuki: “!!”
Tsuna+Goku+Reborn are surprised
Suzuki: “KAORU!!
Kaoru: “Takeshi…you…should have been able to avoid that…but I…I wanted to repay you!!”
Yama: YOU IDIOT!!
Black mist emits from the ground.
Yama+co: “!!”
Vindice: “The outcome has been decided”
Kaoru’s neck was clamped with a collar.
Kaoru grunts as he was wrapped in chains.
Suzuki (losing her cool): “What are you doing Vindice! Kaoru hasn’t put his pride on the line in any battle yet!”
Vindice: “But the pride of this man has already been broken, therefore we see him as the defeated one.”
Kaoru: “Guh…I’m sorry, Adel…”
“My pride as a Simon is the resolve to do whatever it takes for the Simon…
But…to betray a friend that has been so kind to me…it’s too much
My heart has been hurting all this time…the crime I’ve committed…I want make up for it…
Yama: “You…”
Kaoru: “I don’t have any right to fight with the Vongola now…please forgive me”
Suzuki: “KAORU!!”
Tsuna watches in shock.
Daemon: “You were such a burden Mizuno Kaoru…but this time you’ve done something right, thanks to your loss, we’re going to see a fantastic show.”
Goku: “Show?”
Reborn: “The Primo’s past memories”
Vindice: “In view of the decided outcome, we give you the 5th key, this”
Vindice takes out a note with a Flame seal that was ripped in two.
Tsuna: “!!”
Goku: “A letter of some sort?”
Daemon: “You should all know what you’re going to see in this next memory”
Shocked faces of Tsuna and Suzuki
Daemon: “The last of Simon Cozart, whom was torn to pieces in my trap!”
The light of the 5th key shines on everyone’s foreheads…
! The top panels show Tsuna, Yama, Hibari, Daemon, Goku, Lambo, and Ryohei in Vindice
on the bottom are Enma(sleeping), Kaoru, Suzuki, Chrome, ShittP+Rauji+Aoba in Vindice
! -Memory from the past-
On the hills with lots of smoke.
We see (Daemon’s) subordinates with their faces covered by hoods. [I’m going to call them Sub1, Sub2 etc now]
Daemon: Good work
Sub1: “There are a great number of enemies surrounding the Simon Family but somehow they’re holding out.”
Sub2: “It’s only a matter of time before they’re done with.”
Daemon: “What a stubborn man you are, Simon Cozart.”
Sub2: “!?”
Daemon: “It seems that I would have to erase you.”
And then Daemon takes out the memo (that was the key) “Take this and go down to the Simon Family. Take out all of them and tear Simon Cozart to pieces. If you show him the Flame seal, they might think you’re on their side and let down their defenses.”
Subs: Understood.
! -In Giotto’s house-
Daemon drops to his knees, covered in wounds.
Giotto: “!! Daemon! Are you alright?!”
Daemon: “I’m terribly sorry!! There was an unexpected number of enemies and even my elite team was wiped out…”
Giotto: “!! Even your team!?” “I’m sorry…this is my responsibility! I should go!!”
Daemon: “It’s no use!”
Giotto: “No use…?”
Daemon drops his head in regret [OH YOU DAEMON YOU] “It was too late when we got there…Simon Cozart was…already dead…”
Giotto bites his lip.
Daemon: “We had wanted to bring back his remains, but…”
Giotto turns his back to Daemon: “…Is that so. I’m indebted to you, Daemon…”
Daemon shows his JUST AS PLANNED smile behind Giotto.
! A gunfight is breaking out in the town between the mountains.
Sub1: “Simon Cozart-sama”
Two men with guns and Simon Cozart sheltering in the shadows of abandoned house.
Sub2 shows them the memo with the flame seal. “We are the subordinates of Vongola Family’s Daemon Spade, we’ve come to save you.”
Cozart: “Don’t lie. Didn’t you come to kill us all by the orders of that man named Daemon?”
The hooded subordinates are all surprised.
Cozart: “As I thought…I knew there was a traitor amongst the Vongola.”
Sub1: “What!?”
Sub2: ………..
Cozart: “The letter I received was signed with “Primo”… Giotto would never call himself that with me.
The third piece of paper in the letter was a fake. I want to get to Giotto’s side..but it seems like Daemon Spade got to me first…
So it had to come to this…….”
Cozart’s forehead ignites with a flame and he raises his fists.
“But I’ll fight to the last! Even if my body should perish……” And his flame grows larger.
“For my family and my friend!!”
Simon Family member A: “Boss!”
Simon Family member B: “Us too!!”
Sub1: “………….”
Sub2: “Primo was even better with words than Daemon Spade was.” And then he tears the memo into two.
Cozart: “!?”
And the Subordinates place their hands to their faces “Our boss has seen through Daemon Spade’s plans” [Vongola Hyper Intuition?]
And you can see one of the subordinate’s lower chin…with a familiar looking flame-pattern tattoo…
“By the order of Vongola Primo…no”
They take off their hoods
“By the friendship you share with Giotto.”
They throw away the hood and Haoris.
“We will guard the Simon family—”
“AT ALL COSTS!”
And the 5 guardians, Alaudi with handcuffs, G with his bow, Lampow with his…pan? Ugetsu with sword at his waist, and Knuckle with his bible.
! Flavor text: The “rescuer” that had come!! Simon was saved…!! The knot in the true history is unravelling!Woah. what a twist!
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I'll wait for the chapter to get scanlated. I like spoilers but never scripts.
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Full chapter pics also I truly hate mangahead
!
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It would seem they don't like you much either.
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holy shit that was great.
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Danm this was such a nice chapter… You can never expect what's going to happen in katekyo which is why it's great... never though that primo saw through all that... then how the heck did the shimon perish I wonder...
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yeah that was a really good chapter
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Yamamoto's new form looks cool, I must admit. The vindice are really getting lazy with their application of justice, they arbitrarily decided that Kaoru was done when he wasn't even in an actual fight, and they've let adelheid just kinda hang around.
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Yamamoto's new form looks cool, I must admit. The vindice are really getting lazy with their application of justice, they arbitrarily decided that Kaoru was done when he wasn't even in an actual fight, and they've let adelheid just kinda hang around.
I was kinda wondering why the fuck she was still there.
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A really good chapter? It was all that? Really? I disagree. It was OK.
Action-wise, nothing really happened. Yamamoto blocked a single attack, then Kaoru went down arbitrarily (and even pointlessly, as he admitted!) Story-wise, the reveal that the Vongola Guardians knew about Daemon Spade being a traitor and defending Cozart is interesting, but then positively baffling in light of the knowledge that Vongola Secondo had Daemon Spade as his advisor. Derp.
We know that Vongola's reign started to go downhill from the Second Vongola's on (so early in its history!), but you would THINK that the rest of the family would do something, knowing so widely of his betrayal. Then again, the Vongolas (to my estimation) have always sort of been fangless (Mukuro, the Cradle affair, the Ninth getting kidnapped by Xanxus, Vongola getting pushed around by other mafias and villains CONSTANTLY, such as the Millefore and now Shimon - the Ninth's guardians getting taken down by Shimon, not to mention the majority of Tsuna's pathetic guardians)… but I doubt that was intentional. Shit really was falling apart right from the start, huh?
Ok chapter. I don't know about this "really good" stuff.
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I liked the reveal at the end.
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A really good chapter? It was all that? Really? I disagree. It was OK.
Action-wise, nothing really happened. Yamamoto blocked a single attack, then Kaoru went down arbitrarily (and even pointlessly, as he admitted!) Story-wise, the reveal that the Vongola Guardians knew about Daemon Spade being a traitor and defending Cozart is interesting, but then positively baffling in light of the knowledge that Vongola Secondo had Daemon Spade as his advisor. Derp.
We know that Vongola's reign started to go downhill from the Second Vongola's on (so early in its history!), but you would THINK that the rest of the family would do something, knowing so widely of his betrayal. Then again, the Vongolas (to my estimation) have always sort of been fangless (Mukuro, the Cradle affair, the Ninth getting kidnapped by Xanxus, Vongola getting pushed around by other mafias and villains CONSTANTLY, such as the Millefore and now Shimon - the Ninth's guardians getting taken down by Shimon, not to mention the majority of Tsuna's pathetic guardians)… but I doubt that was intentional. Shit really was falling apart right from the start, huh?
Ok chapter. I don't know about this "really good" stuff.
Not a lot happened action. However, we learned a lot more in regards to the past of Shimon and Vongola. What we know is that Shimon was killed in this battle and that Daeman betrayed Primo. What we got in this chapter was what really happened which is Shimon knowing about the betrayal Primo knowing about the betrayal. Which begs the question what happens next?
Also I think you're belittling kaoru and his self sacrifice. He was obviously feeling tremendous guilt about attacking Yammamoto and felt he needed a way to make up for it. Which future just strengthens the bond between Shimon and Vongola which from the flashback previously shown was pretty damn strong.
Now you have to ask your self this how does Daeman betray Primo if this was his big plan to betray him and it blows up in his face then what happens? This chapter answered a lot of question and it leaves you asking a lot more questions and wanting more. It also sets up for the remainder of the arc pretty well.
Also I'm curious as to why Daeman considered this such a huge victory for himself.
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Not a lot happened action. However, we learned a lot more in regards to the past of Shimon and Vongola. What we know is that Shimon was killed in this battle and that Daeman betrayed Primo. What we got in this chapter was what really happened which is Shimon knowing about the betrayal Primo knowing about the betrayal. Which begs the question what happens next?
Also I think you're belittling kaoru and his self sacrifice. He was obviously feeling tremendous guilt about attacking Yammamoto and felt he needed a way to make up for it. Which future just strengthens the bond between Shimon and Vongola which from the flashback previously shown was pretty damn strong.
Now you have to ask your self this how does Daeman betray Primo if this was his big plan to betray him and it blows up in his face then what happens? This chapter answered a lot of question and it leaves you asking a lot more questions and wanting more. It also sets up for the remainder of the arc pretty well.
Also I'm curious as to why Daeman considered this such a huge victory for himself.
This manga doesn't have the balls to do something like have Primo be intentionally responsible for the downfall of Shimon. Just like it doesn't have the balls to have Tsuna's father be responsible for Enma's family's death, watch and see.
That would require the story to be much deeper and more multi-faceted and more interesting than I honestly think it's capable of. Shimon are justified in their rage? Vongola really did perpetrate a horrible atrocity against an ally, in a cutthroat mafia world? Why, Tsuna would have to undergo some character development! Vongola would truly have to reconcile with its not-entirely-honorable past which we've seen so little of. Since I knew from the beginnings of this arc that none of the above was likely to happen, the conclusion: Shimon were mistaken - and now Vongola and Shimon must unite to fight a new enemy - was a foregone one. To me, at least.
That is to say: this reveal invoked nothing but the obvious. Concrete proof that this was coming was there the moment Daemon Spade revealed himself, and I remain a rock, unmoved.
Also, Kaoru's sacrifice would have been a little more compelling if, well, he hadn't flat out stated "YOU PROBABLY COULD HAVE DODGED THIS SO THIS WAS UNNECESSARY UGGGHHH" His injuries and loss could not have been more forced if they were kidney stones being pissed out in a stream of blood. Consider Kaoru belittled.
As far as I'm concerned Daemon Spade is just Byakuran 2.0. Which is redundant, because apparently Byakuran is STILL AROUND. Both are dreadfully boring. Call me when he allies with some mini-bosses for the Vongola Guardians to struggle with so I can see the next Yamma and Hibari fights.
Ok chapter.
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This manga doesn't have the balls to do something like have Primo be intentionally responsible for the downfall of Shimon. Just like it doesn't have the balls to have Tsuna's father be responsible for Enma's family's death, watch and see.
That would require the story to be much deeper and more multi-faceted and more interesting than I honestly think it's capable of. Shimon are justified in their rage? Vongola really did perpetrate a horrible atrocity against an ally, in a cutthroat mafia world? Why, Tsuna would have to undergo some character development! Vongola would truly have to reconcile with its not-entirely-honorable past which we've seen so little of. Since I knew from the beginnings of this arc that none of the above was likely to happen, the conclusion: Shimon were mistaken - and now Vongola and Shimon must unite to fight a new enemy - was a foregone one. To me, at least.
That is to say: this reveal invoked nothing but the obvious. Concrete proof that this was coming was there the moment Daemon Spade revealed himself, and I remain a rock, unmoved.
Also, Kaoru's sacrifice would have been a little more compelling if, well, he hadn't flat out stated "YOU PROBABLY COULD HAVE DODGED THIS SO THIS WAS UNNECESSARY UGGGHHH" His injuries and loss could not have been more forced if they were kidney stones being pissed out in a stream of blood. Consider Kaoru belittled.
As far as I'm concerned Daemon Spade is just Byakuran 2.0. Which is redundant, because apparently Byakuran is STILL AROUND. Both are dreadfully boring. Call me when he allies with some mini-bosses for the Vongola Guardians to struggle with so I can see the next Yamma and Hibari fights.
Ok chapter.
I never for a second once believed that the Vongola ditched Shimon on the battlefield. To me that would be too out of character from what we knew about primo and his family. I'm enjoying the blanks that are being filled in and seeing exactly what happened not just what I assume to be the truth of the events. For example when Primo sends Daeman to reinforce Shimon you're thinking this is the crucial moment where Daeman betrays Vongola and Shimon dies. If you're going to tell me that you knew that Primo knew + SHimon know there was a traitor I'm going to have to call bull. I'm also going to ask you what really happened with shimon.
Just because you're in the mob doesn't mean you're going to back stab someone from you're family. If you're not going to war with that family and you consider them to be close to you why would you sit there and betray them?
As for Tsuna's character development I believe that this is happening I believe that Hibari's fight is going to make his character grow. As for his dad I don't see a reason why his Dad would kill his family. I think it's just another manipulation tactic by Daeman the same way he lied about what happened with the 1st and Primo. But we'll see how that plays out.
Also I once again think you're belittling kaoru's sacrifice. It's like the man knew that he didn't have to take that the hit. However, he still did it I believe that's better than saving him from a pinch that he had to be saved from.
Daeman reminds me nothing of Byakuran. They don't even have the same type of ring. Why wouldn't byakuran be around ? Why would him dying in the future eliminate him from the past? Also I didn't realize that Daeman could go to different worlds in different universe. When he get that power ?
I honestly feel as though you're being overly critical of the show and being way to jaded in regards to your breakdown of what is going on. I'm not too sure what you want from the show but it doesn't seem like you're enjoying it so why continue ? Also you're prediction about how the arc ends I'm not sure that it's going to go down like that while they may team in the future I don't see how Tsuna and Emma wouldn't fight to finish this off.