High tiers and Top tiers like Moria&WB respectively can take canon balls no issue. Terrible comparison.
Moria is now Yonkou level. When he returns to the story he'll be the 5th Emperor, making it Gokou.
Can anyone explain to me why Kuma's laser melted steel at TB but when a Pacifista attacked Kidd and he was able to block the laser fired at him with normal swords and guns and nothing got melted? (Was shown that way in the anime. Not sure about the manga.)
easy. TOEI goofed.
Why are we still trying to rank the strength of the Shichibukai?
They are powerful, fearsome pirates - all of them.
Sometimes situations and bad match-ups occur that seem to offset the balance of power between them and their opponents, but it should be generally acknowledged that just because someone was defeated earlier in the story doesn't mean they aren't still a threat. Remember that Oda himself said if Enel was a pirate on the blue seas, with his powers, his bounty could have been as high as 500 million.
How devil fruits and powers interact with each other play a large role in the outcome of any battle - and that's the beauty of One Piece.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
I think we all understand that. But you get people that will argue that Buggy could stand a chance against Mihawk or another swordsman around that level. Most cases aren't that extreme, but that's why it's a discussion.
Why are we still trying to rank the strength of the Shichibukai?
They are powerful, fearsome pirates - all of them.
Sometimes situations and bad match-ups occur that seem to offset the balance of power between them and their opponents, but it should be generally acknowledged that just because someone was defeated earlier in the story doesn't mean they aren't still a threat. Remember that Oda himself said if Enel was a pirate on the blue seas, with his powers, his bounty could have been as high as 500 million.
How devil fruits and powers interact with each other play a large role in the outcome of any battle - and that's the beauty of One Piece.
I don't think that anyone's denying that all of the Shichibukai are powerful, and that the outcomes of some fights are at least partly situational, but it wouldn't be true if someone said that they're all completely equal in terms of fighting power.
Mah darlin candy boys
@Iva:
I don't think that anyone's denying that all of the Shichibukai are powerful, and that the outcomes of some fights are at least partly situational, but it wouldn't be true if someone said that they're all completely equal in terms of fighting power.
They are equal in power, Moria is just as strong as any other Shichibukai
Moria the Great…
They are equal in power, Moria is just as strong as any other Shichibukai
YOU ARE INSANE…
...
...
...
...
INSANE
Shichibukai's arent that strong, Luffy KO'd Hancock with one sumo move, Moria were kicked by group of east blue pirates plus some others. Also, this former guy Sir Crocodile, damn beaten because water/blood? Dude, you are sand. No shit. Ground Zero were awesome I m telling that, but Whitebeard had best earth based powers so far. Peace.
ΠΛΑΝΗΤΕΣ [Air Gear 243\. The best. Chapter. Ever.]
Shichibukai's arent that strong, Luffy KO'd Hancock with one sumo move
DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERP
Moria were kicked by group of east blue pirates plus some others.
DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERP
Also, this former guy Sir Crocodile, damn beaten because water/blood? Dude, you are sand. No shit.
DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERP
Ground Zero were awesome I m telling that, but Whitebeard had best earth based powers so far. Peace.
True
Only reason Croc lost was Luffy's plot armor
Surviving a stab through his chest
Surviving completely being dehydrated with water dropping on him
Then surviving the poison Croc had
It all screams plot armor, Croc has a Logia ffs (albeit a one with a huge weakness)
Only reason he lost was that Luffy needed to continue his journey and that Croc was a huge retard that never completely finished him
They are equal in power, Moria is just as strong as any other Shichibukai
1. I never mentioned Moria specifically. 2. The Shichibukai are not even close to being equal in power.
Mah darlin candy boys
Only reason Croc lost was Luffy's plot armor
Surviving a stab through his chest
Surviving completely being dehydrated with water dropping on him
Then surviving the poison Croc hadIt all screams plot armor, Croc has a Logia ffs (albeit a one with a huge weakness)
Only reason he lost was that Luffy needed to continue his journey and that Croc was a huge retard that never completely finished him
He suffered from Mad Scientist disease, that disease in which you feel obligated to put any main character into a situation that you proudly claim he'll never survive, and then just ignore him and wait for him to sneak up and kick your ass.
@Iva:
1. I never mentioned Moria specifically. 2. The Shichibukai are not even close to being equal in power.
Yes, they are, Moria could easily take on most of them(and win).
Moria the Great…
Yes, they are, Moria could easily take on most of them(and win).
Again, you're assuming that I'm talking only about Moria. Also, what's the basis of this statement?
@Iva:
Again, you're assuming that I'm talking only about Moria. Also, what's the basis of this statement?
the basis? the Fanbase
ahuahauahua
Moria sucks, literally
his power were good but he was a runnaway moron.
actually Moria is the most shichibukai with the potential to become strong
after the timeskip!!
They are not equal in power. To realistically believe that, you'd have to believe that the likes of Croc, Moria, Hancock, and Jimbei could beat a guy like Mihawk (a guy whose strength has been hyped since the opening story arcs of the series).
They are not equal in power. To realistically believe that, you'd have to believe that the likes of Croc, Moria, Hancock, and Jimbei could beat a guy like Mihawk (a guy whose strength has been hyped since the opening story arcs of the series).
Moria can definitely beat/kill Mihawk.
Moria the Great…
Whatever he is doing, he's INSANE
Agreed, while I think Moria is underhyped, he can't beat Mihawk. Not even close.
(Btw the only reason Gecko Moria is my name is because I joined right after ch. 448 came out, though I'd been lurking years before)
And now you're just fanboying
And you only notice it now. That said, Moria is really underrated around here.
It's fuckin' beka, what do you expect, that his his entire schtick.
Anyway, something I always found weird…Do Flamingo wanted to team up with Crocodile, who was beaten by a Luffy who wasn't even able to use Gear 2 at the time he got beaten, but he had to kill Moria, because he was too weak?
This somehow doesn't make any sense.
@iSheep:
It's fuckin' beka, what do you expect, that his his entire schtick.
Anyway, something I always found weird…Do Flamingo wanted to team up with Crocodile, who was beaten by a Luffy who wasn't even able to use Gear 2 at the time he got beaten, but he had to kill Moria, because he was too weak?
This somehow doesn't make any sense.
1. He might have been kidding around. 2. Crocodile is still really strong.
@iSheep:
It's fuckin' beka, what do you expect, that his his entire schtick.
Anyway, something I always found weird…Do Flamingo wanted to team up with Crocodile, who was beaten by a Luffy who wasn't even able to use Gear 2 at the time he got beaten, but he had to kill Moria, because he was too weak?
This somehow doesn't make any sense.
I'll quote myself
Only reason Croc lost was Luffy's plot armor
Surviving a stab through his chest
Surviving completely being dehydrated with water dropping on him
Then surviving the poison Croc hadIt all screams plot armor, Croc has a Logia ffs (albeit a one with a huge weakness)
Only reason he lost was that Luffy needed to continue his journey and that Croc was a huge retard that never completely finished him
This is the only thing that has disappointed me in Oda's masterpiece
Having Luffy fight a Shichibukai this early on in the manga
Not saying Croc is weak, I just found Do Flamingos reasoning odd.
And Moria lost because of plot armor too, Moria + Oars is still undefated. (Ignoring the "lol there you go, 100 shadows for you" Deus ex machina)
I think Story wise, it was a mistake to put a shibukai defeat so early in the story.
On the other hand, Ace was equal to Jimbei and didnt see any land against Whitebeard.
Overall the power shown for Croc, Hancock, Moria and even Jimbei seem not to much something thats called 3rd power. Doflas real power is unknown. Thers just kinda Kuma und Mihawk that seem to match the thing you would expect from the "class"….
Also its really curious that you have an island with hundred of beast on it that luffy had no chance...and hes been quite a lvl at that point.
But prolly its unavoidable to have a few flaws in such a long serie
I guess the thing is, to me, it doesn't really matter who the "strongest" or "stronger" shichibukai are.
Never in the series will you hear someone go "oh man, that kuma guy, SO WEAK" or "hancock is the weakest shichibukai" or "mihawk is the strongest shichibukai." They're all situationally strong but overall damn fearsome.
Moria once matched but lost to Kaidou and put the Strawhats in a desperate sure-lose situation that only absolute good fortune (the people whose shadows had been stolen pulling Luffy aside and handing them to him) got them out of. Crocodile apparently was able to chill in the New World and clashed with Doflamingo with neither able to get the upper hand on the other. Dofla was unable to harm Crocodile with his devil-fruit… but does that mean he's weaker than Croc? Mihawk was stopped by Joz and couldn't cut Buggy but nobody looks down on him. Hancock downright wrecked pacifista that - when combined with Dofla, brought Moria to the brink of death. All this, when the Strawhats had to go all-out to take down even one pacifista. Jimbei's salt water had an advantage against Moria -- the scale isn't binary, it changes.
People like to remember the end result but never the situation or the process. Luffy had to fight Crocodile THREE times and none of them were easy fights. If it weren't for Robin's antidote, he would have died and lost the third one too. The power scale isn't "messed up." Look at Blackbeard! Luffy put a serious hurting on him! Magellan took out his whole crew without a thought! And yet he made enough of an impression on Shanks (literally) that Shanks warned him that he was much more dangerous than he appeared. He killed Thatch, he beat Ace... and in the end, it was his crew that killed Whitebeard.
Shanks said it best himself when he said that while Ace is strong, reputation and duty get mixed up in things and can confuse the issue. Blackbeard was a no-name with no reputation and no bounty. Ace underestimated him. Croc underestimated Luffy. Moria did too.
Battle isn't certain. That's why I think that "ranking" the Shichibukai is a wasted effort. The World Government doesn't go "who can this guy beat in a fight?" when they decide who to promote, though it helps. Remember, they would've promoted Blackbeard if he brought in Luffy, but he brought them Whitebeard's 2nd Div. Commander. What matters to them is their reputation. If people think the Shichibukai CAN be beaten just like that, it defeats the entire purpose of having them there as a deterrent.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
I think the main problem with Crocodile and Moria is the fact that people completely underestimate Luffy. I seriously believe that Luffy is almost top-tier in terms of raw strength, speed and endurance. Pretty much every fight he got his ass kicked was because he was unable to touch the other person (Kizaru, Magellan, Ao Kiji, Crocodile in the first fight).
I'm not saying that he could beat these guys now because of haki, but at least he could pull off a decent fight.
That's why, as bland and boring Lucci was, he was an interesting opponent for luffy, because he forced Luffy to go beyond his limits with pure physical combat, none of that "lol can't touch me"-bullshit.
@iSheep:
It's fuckin' beka, what do you expect, that his his entire schtick.
Anyway, something I always found weird…Do Flamingo wanted to team up with Crocodile, who was beaten by a Luffy who wasn't even able to use Gear 2 at the time he got beaten, but he had to kill Moria, because he was too weak?
This somehow doesn't make any sense.
Crocodile is still a smart, ruthless, and powerful ally. Doesn't have to be a top tier to be useful.
Don was ordered to take out Moria for his loss against the SH. Too weak was the higher-ups reasoning not his. Can't send Moria to prison since its in shambles and letting him go just creates another enemy like Croc and Jimbei.
Exactly. People should stop saying that Moria and Luffy's fight was in Luffy's favor. It was Moria's own domain, with a ton of zombies and shadows. If Moria was as strong as people say he is, than he would have been able to completely destroy Luffy by using this huge advantage. But he lost.
Posts like this show as much ignorance as people not understanding Teach's nature. He is not weaker than Akainu just because he ran and you're disregarding everything that happened in TB prior to Moria's defeat. Even his intro box tries to drill it into you that he wasn't trying vs. the SH. Each time he made a move he easily played around with the SH. He left them alone the entire arc because his laziness pinned on the responsiblility of dealing with them on the his subordinates.
Doing that allowed the SH to gather intel, shadows, regroup together, defeat his subordinates, and even gain allies themselves. He only gets serious after taking the second worst beating in the entire series. How is it now a huge disadvantage to get your face bashed in repreatedly by a guy whose strength dwarves the 100 ft tall Giant Zombie running around before the real fight started.
Crocodile is still a smart, ruthless, and powerful ally. Doesn't have to be a top tier to be useful.
Don was ordered to take out Moria for his loss against the SH. Too weak was the higher-ups reasoning not his. Can't send Moria to prison since its in shambles and letting him go just creates another enemy like Croc and Jimbei.
Posts like this show as much ignorance as people not understanding Teach's nature. He is not weaker than Akainu just because he ran and you're disregarding everything that happened in TB prior to Moria's defeat. Even his intro box tries to drill it into you that he wasn't trying vs. the SH. Each time he made a move he easily played around with the SH. He left them alone the entire arc because his laziness pinned on the responsiblility of dealing with them on the his subordinates.
Doing that allowed the SH to gather intel, shadows, regroup together, defeat his subordinates, and even gain allies themselves. He only gets serious after taking the second worst beating in the entire series. How is it now a huge disadvantage to get your face bashed in repreatedly by a guy whose strength dwarves the 100 ft tall Giant Zombie running around before the real fight started.
But tactics are a factor in fighting ability. You can say that he might have defeated the SH if he had tried from the beginning, but he didn't. Pure power is not all that makes a a person strong. You have to be smart, and not underestimate your opponents to the point where, according to you, he had almost no chance of defeating them.
Now you're just grasping at straws arguing Moria's character. That is the entire point of his personality like Ussop pseudo-cowardice(need better term here), Kizaru's nonchalant attitude about everything, Teach being an opportunist, etc. Going with your logic Sanji is weaker than Nami and Kalifa.
Oda has already made it a point that his attitude makes him weak with the end of the arc, fight with jimbei(anime expands on this), and then his botched assasination. As far as combat ability is concerned Moria> the SHs. 100 Shadow Moria+scissors = very dead SH as it would be impossible to hurt him or protect themselves. Even worse than facing Oars.
Now you're just grasping at straws arguing Moria's character. That is the entire point of his personality like Ussop pseudo-cowardice(need better term here), Kizaru's nonchalant attitude about everything, Teach being an opportunist, etc. Going with your logic Sanji is weaker than Nami and Kalifa.
Oda has already made it a point that his attitude makes him weak with the end of the arc, fight with jimbei(anime expands on this), and then his botched assasination. As far as combat ability is concerned Moria> the SHs. 100 Shadow Moria+scissors = very dead SH as it would be impossible to hurt him or protect themselves. Even worse than facing Oars.
Ok, fine. Maybe I was wrong about the laziness. But that still isn't any guarantee that he would have beaten the SH even if he wasn't lazy. Also when you say that 100 shadow Moria would have owned, do you mean if he had done 100 shadow at the beginning or at the end, when instead he consumed 1000. Because the technique is his last resort move, which he wouldn't do unless he had no other option. And when he did use it, he decided to use 1000 shadows instead. You can say that with 100 shadows he might have won, but he used 1000, which clearly wasn't a smart thing to do. That's his fault, and the fact that he misjudged his own abilities does factor in to his own power
At the beginning of course where he was still fresh or at any other poitn prior to taking a shitload of damage.
No it doesn't' affect his power. He was clearly delirious having just woken up from getting nailed in the face from a punch far more destructive than what knocked Lucci onto a battleship or what Luffy used on the Marine Giant.
You keep talking about his personality as if that plays apart of his combat power. If you want to argue that then Sanji< Kalifa< Nami when obviously this is backwards. Its called CIS and it happens all the time in every series.
At the beginning of course where he was still fresh or at any other poitn prior to taking a shitload of damage.
No it doesn't' affect his power. He was clearly delirious having just woken up from getting nailed in the face from a punch far more destructive than what knocked Lucci onto a battleship or what Luffy used on the Marine Giant.
You keep talking about his personality as if that plays apart of his combat power. If you want to argue that then Sanji< Kalifa< Nami when obviously this is backwards. Its called CIS and it happens all the time in every series.
K fine, maybe he would have won had he done that. And personality does have a connection to combat power. The Sanji< Kalifa < Nami thing is a bad example. Not fighting against women is Sanji's code of honor, not a personality trait such as laziness.
Sanji let himself and Nami get hurt because he refused to seriously fight.
Moria allowed his whole operation to go under because he refused to seriously fight?
How are they any different other than Sanji motive was more noble? In his eyes anyway.
Sanji let himself and Nami get hurt because he refused to seriously fight.
Moria allowed his whole operation to go under because he refused to seriously fight?
How are they any different other than Sanji motive was more noble? In his eyes anyway.
Because, Moria didn't fight seriously because of laziness, and Sanji didn't fight seriously because of his morals. The is a difference between personality and morals.
Mah darlin candy boys
I think Doflamingo is the strongest due to his ability to control anyone.
1. Doflamingo
2.Mihawk
3.Kuma
4. Jimbei
5. Hancock
6.Crocoboy
7.Moria.
When I die I want to get shot out of a cannon. Scare the hell out of someone.
I think Doflamingo is the strongest due to his ability to control anyone.
1. Doflamingo
2.Mihawk
3.Kuma
4. Jimbei
5. Hancock
6.Crocoboy
7.Moria.
Ranking OP powers in numbers is silly, better to classify in groups
And we can't really rank them either, we haven't seen the full extent of their powers if they were fighting seriously
Moria however, seems to be last
After his fight with Kaidou it seems like he just lost it mentally and never recovered
Just to throw this out there, but remember that if the owner of a shadow dies, then the shadow disappears too. The normal way things go on Thriller Bark is that he steals his prey's shadows, they're knocked out for three days and in that time he sends them off to sea.
Straw Hats woke up and caused trouble. If Moria killed Sanji or Zoro then those shadows would have been lost. And killing Luffy would have caused Oars to once again be nothing but a lifeless corpse, something that he surely did not want.
@Iva:
Because, Moria didn't fight seriously because of laziness, and Sanji didn't fight seriously because of his morals. The is a difference between personality and morals.
Not really. You still fail to explain to me how the comparison is bad? Both attitudes affect their mindsets in battle. That is all that is relevant to this conversation. Why they act a certain way doesn't mean a thing at all.
Mihawk is on Shanks' level. So he's at the top of the list.
Moria was at the bottom when we last left him. Toss up for the rest.
I guess the thing is, to me, it doesn't really matter who the "strongest" or "stronger" shichibukai are.
Never in the series will you hear someone go "oh man, that kuma guy, SO WEAK" or "hancock is the weakest shichibukai" or "mihawk is the strongest shichibukai." They're all situationally strong but overall damn fearsome.
Moria once matched but lost to Kaidou and put the Strawhats in a desperate sure-lose situation that only absolute good fortune (the people whose shadows had been stolen pulling Luffy aside and handing them to him) got them out of. Crocodile apparently was able to chill in the New World and clashed with Doflamingo with neither able to get the upper hand on the other. Dofla was unable to harm Crocodile with his devil-fruit… but does that mean he's weaker than Croc? Mihawk was stopped by Joz and couldn't cut Buggy but nobody looks down on him. Hancock downright wrecked pacifista that - when combined with Dofla, brought Moria to the brink of death. All this, when the Strawhats had to go all-out to take down even one pacifista. Jimbei's salt water had an advantage against Moria -- the scale isn't binary, it changes.
People like to remember the end result but never the situation or the process. Luffy had to fight Crocodile THREE times and none of them were easy fights. If it weren't for Robin's antidote, he would have died and lost the third one too. The power scale isn't "messed up." Look at Blackbeard! Luffy put a serious hurting on him! Magellan took out his whole crew without a thought! And yet he made enough of an impression on Shanks (literally) that Shanks warned him that he was much more dangerous than he appeared. He killed Thatch, he beat Ace... and in the end, it was his crew that killed Whitebeard.
Shanks said it best himself when he said that while Ace is strong, reputation and duty get mixed up in things and can confuse the issue. Blackbeard was a no-name with no reputation and no bounty. Ace underestimated him. Croc underestimated Luffy. Moria did too.
Battle isn't certain. That's why I think that "ranking" the Shichibukai is a wasted effort. The World Government doesn't go "who can this guy beat in a fight?" when they decide who to promote, though it helps. Remember, they would've promoted Blackbeard if he brought in Luffy, but he brought them Whitebeard's 2nd Div. Commander. What matters to them is their reputation. If people think the Shichibukai CAN be beaten just like that, it defeats the entire purpose of having them there as a deterrent.
best post in this entire thread.
Mihawk is on Shanks' level. So he's at the top of the list.
Moria was at the bottom when we last left him. Toss up for the rest.
That can't really be correct. During the war, Vista and Jozu (never technically clashed with him) fought on par with him for the most part. And while we didn't see much of it, Crocodile certainly wasn't afraid to confront him either.
And I know Whitebeard's fourth division commander isn't on the same level as Shanks, a Yonkou, the same title as Whitebeard himself, and whose reputation calmed the war.
He's the best swordsman currently.
Since Shanks hasn't shown he isn't largely a sword fighter, it stands to reason Mihawk can take him.
Battle isn't certain.
It can be. I could have told you back when Aokiji first appeared that Kizaru and Akainu would be on a level above Luffy, and pretty likely above the Shichibukai.
That can't really be correct. During the war, Vista and Jozu (never technically clashed with him) fought on par with him for the most part. And while we didn't see much of it, Crocodile certainly wasn't afraid to confront him either.
And I know Whitebeard's fourth division commander isn't on the same level as Shanks, a Yonkou, the same title as Whitebeard himself, and whose reputation calmed the war.
That's the flawed way of thinking we were going on about. Because Mihawk didn't slice through Joz, he can't be on Shanks' level? When we haven't Shanks ever fight?
The only one that we r sure that he was equal to a Yonku was Moria.And he could be again as soon as he's coming back 
That can't really be correct. During the war, Vista and Jozu (never technically clashed with him) fought on par with him for the most part. And while we didn't see much of it, Crocodile certainly wasn't afraid to confront him either.
And I know Whitebeard's fourth division commander isn't on the same level as Shanks, a Yonkou, the same title as Whitebeard himself, and whose reputation calmed the war.
he wasnt afraid to confront Whitebeard who is > Shanks
Mihawk is on Shanks' level. So he's at the top of the list.
Moria was at the bottom when we last left him. Toss up for the rest.
No, their swordfighting skills have been on the same level. So Shanks may have some other tricks he wasn't allowed to use in the fights.
Also, Shanks got the Haki oC so in fights crew vs crew he is extremly valuable.
