@JERK:
Yet they tolerate an order like the social caste system with the World Nobles.
Yep, and slavery, torture (see Impel Down), assassinations and wiping out entire kingdoms.
@JERK:
Yet they tolerate an order like the social caste system with the World Nobles.
Yep, and slavery, torture (see Impel Down), assassinations and wiping out entire kingdoms.
And it is a dictatorship.
Though technically so is Alabasta.
The most politically developed has to be Water 7.
Yep, and slavery, torture (see Impel Down), assassinations and wiping out entire kingdoms.
but gaiz da govt is ony doing wat it tinks iz rite111!11!!!!
I'm still pretty unclear on how the WG works. I'm not sure we have enough we know enough about them to understand how they work. Part of it looks like aristocracy, part of it oligarchy and a third part UN equivalent. Do the nations under the WG get a say or is everything run by the Gorosei? Do the World Nobles have a say in the law or are they just above it for the most part?
I think certain factions have an opportunity to voice their opinion but at the end of the day, the Five Elder Stars are going to do what they feel is best for everyone.
I'm still pretty unclear on how the WG works. I'm not sure we have enough we know enough about them to understand how they work. Part of it looks like aristocracy, part of it oligarchy and a third part UN equivalent. Do the nations under the WG get a say or is everything run by the Gorosei? Do the World Nobles have a say in the law or are they just above it for the most part?
No nations in One Piece have their own naval force.
They have royal armies and such, but no naval force.
The Marines is an international organization.
And, judging by how WG sent their representatives to deal with Iceburg, I doubt it has too much public affectation on their independence.
I imagine the kings write down suggestions and complainants on little index cards that they send to the Elders. The Elders reply with a message along these lines:
Dear valued kingdom,
We have recieved your inquiry about <subject matter="">. It has been put to review and screening. Please wait 2-4 weeks for an update.
Signed,
GOROUSEI
And then it never comes.</subject>
There are seemingly good and evil factions of both. The SH, the protagonists, obviously the good guys. Kidd Pirates, obviously not the case. Marines like Coby, and Smoker and such have their heads in the right place. I'd say there good. Once again, Akainu, not as much.
Of course. The Elder's and the World Government are only going to act when it benefits them. If some bullshit kingdom that doesn't bring forth anything resourceful or valuable calls for help, they're not going to help. Why waste troops or resources for something that doesn't matter all that much? Granted, there will be rare instances, like Smoker or actual marines with a decent sense of morality and justice, in which someone will help, but otherwise, the head won't give a shit.
Pirates are any better. The reality of 'Marine vs Pirates' isn't 'good vs evil'. The reality is, "Assholes are everywhere, but a good soul can come from anywhere." Even the Strawhats 'dine and dash' or steal.
@Sea:
No nations in One Piece have their own naval force.
They have royal armies and such, but no naval force.
The Marines is an international organization.
And, judging by how WG sent their representatives to deal with Iceburg, I doubt it has too much public affectation on their independence.
The marines patrol most waters, anyways, though. It seems the only real incentive to join is fear and most people don't seem to fear the government. The point of a UN is preserving the balance of power between nations, at least in real life, but, as you said, there are few personal navies (we did see one with Norland's nation). I can't imagine the islands going to war against each other, especially considering the inconvenience of sea travel. They really don't offer much besides control. I guess that factors into their inherent corruption, though. And that's all purpose more than mechanism.
Yep, and slavery, torture (see Impel Down), assassinations and wiping out entire kingdoms.
The slavery I don't really blame the Gorousei for. Personally I don't think they had much hand in that, it's basically the Tenryuubuto abusing their wealth and status for their own fucked up reasons. I doubt the Gorousei can do anything they want, they need the support of the politically influential families around them. Just like the US president can't do anything without Congress and our PM can't do anything without Parliament, the Gorousei probably can't push an order through without the approval of a majority of the World Nobles, who obviously want this slavery thing to continue.
To the wiping out kingdoms thing I assume you're referring to what happened 800 years ago which, was 800 years ago and had nothing to do with the current Gorousei. Plus we know nothing about the Ancient Kingdom, it could have been a tyrannical dictatorship for all we know.
As to the other two.. the US still does both of them. Now in general, would you call the US government good or evil? Or better yet, do you think that describing something as purely good or purely evil is arbitary and stupid?
Basically I don't think a government that has the support of 95% of the population would be led by evil people. Obviously marines like Akainu and Onigumo are taking things way to far but the Elder Stars themselves seem like people who primarily just want to keep the peace.
@Sea:
The most politically developed has to be Water 7.
Just like the Venetian republic ironically.
Places like Alabasta I guess are enlightened absolutist kingdoms like Prussia.
The slavery I don't really blame the Gorousei for. Personally I don't think they had much hand in that, it's basically the Tenryuubuto abusing their wealth and status for their own fucked up reasons. I doubt the Gorousei can do anything they want, they need the support of the politically influential families around them. Just like the US president can't do anything without Congress and our PM can't do anything without Parliament, the Gorousei probably can't push an order through without the approval of a majority of the World Nobles, who obviously want this slavery thing to continue.
To the wiping out kingdoms thing I assume you're referring to what happened 800 years ago which, was 800 years ago and had nothing to do with the current Gorousei. Plus we know nothing about the Ancient Kingdom, it could have been a tyrannical dictatorship for all we know.
With slavery, it certainly seemed like there was some cover-up with the Marines when nameless VA informed Sengoku about the Tenryuubito Incident and referred to the slavery auction as a 'public employment security office'. Especially when you have a goddamned Marine base on SA and could easily shut it down if you were so inclined to. It's like what Burke said "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Which fits this scenario perfectly.
And I guess you missed Robin's coverstory arc while referring to your second point here. About the giant fucking bridge, hmmm?
Basically I don't think a government that has the support of 95% of the population would be led by evil people. Obviously marines like Akainu and Onigumo are taking things way to far but the Elder Stars themselves seem like people who primarily just want to keep the peace.
I think I can refute this point with a reference to a shitty Austrian artist who had a terrible mustache.
Marines versus pirates. Good versus evil. Hmmm, although Oda's characters are simple, his story telling is not quite. He really delve into the socio-political aspect inside these two groups. As each member of these groups, albeit having near to common goals, has varying philosophy and principles. Thus, making the two factions somewhat divided but they clearly knew that one is an enemy of the other.
Marines are more organized in this case since there way less attritions inside the organization compared to the pirates, which are warring against each other. Perhaps, that's the function of the pirate king, to unite every pirates? or it is just a title.
Anyway, not because the main character belong to the other faction doesn't mean it is the "good" faction. One piece world is as complicated as our own world where we cannot generalize everything as two oversimplified ideals. However, I agree that the world government is really evil since Oda imprinted the tenryubito hate in me.
To the wiping out kingdoms thing I assume you're referring to what happened 800 years ago which, was 800 years ago and had nothing to do with the current Gorousei. Plus we know nothing about the Ancient Kingdom, it could have been a tyrannical dictatorship for all we know.
Or, you know, "wiping out kingdoms" could refer to destroying Ohara, simply for knowing that their ancestors had done something bad. Maybe the civilization they destroyed was evil or whatever - we don't know - but after reading Robin's arc, it's hard to interpret the Gorusei as having good intentions. It's also hard to buy that they're doing anything for the common good, with slavery and the Tenryuubito.
I doubt the Gorousei can do anything they want, they need the support of the politically influential families around them.
Honestly, it looks like it's the other way around - the government gives Tenryuubito their power. The Tenryuubito seem to be physically weak. They also live in one city, disconnected from the rest of the world. The fear people have of them comes from two things - 1.) they're given a free pass to do anything they want and 2.) hurt them and an admiral is sent. Both of these things come from the government (and marines) itself. It looks like the government just gives them a free pass because the prove they almost divine nature of the WG (as descendants of the founders.)
And I guess you missed Robin's coverstory arc while referring to your second point here. About the giant fucking bridge, hmmm?
What does it have to do with anything I said in that paragraph, hmmm?
Or, you know, "wiping out kingdoms" could refer to destroying Ohara, simply for knowing that their ancestors had done something bad. Maybe the civilization they destroyed was evil or whatever - we don't know - but after reading Robin's arc, it's hard to interpret the Gorusei as having good intentions. It's also hard to buy that they're doing anything for the common good, with slavery and the Tenryuubito.
Really? You don't think their ruthless apporach to the Poneglyphs might not be motivated by a desire to protect the population from the weapons and god knows what else? Or do you really think they're so selfish they'd wipe out an island just to protect their ancestors who died 800 years ago?
I'm not saying what they did on Ohara was good. Akainu blowing up the civilian ship was particularly horrific. But it could be argeud that it was necessary. http://haven-reader.net/index.php?mode=view&series=One+Piece&chapter=Chapter+395&page=8&next=true This is not the face of a guy who's thinking, "Mwhahahahhahahaha let's kill those archaeologists so we can stay in power forever!!!" It's more like "Shit, we had to do it, to secure the stablity and security of the World Government and the people living in it. Because elt's face it, most people approve of the World Goverment. It protects the majority of them from pirates and ensures they stay safe. Most would be utterly devestated to know it was falling apart. To most they are the saviours, the heroes who are commited to creating a prosperous society for all. You ask how they're doing anything for the common good based on two things that are basically out of their control while ignoring all the good they bring.
Honestly, it looks like it's the other way around - the government gives Tenryuubito their power. The Tenryuubito seem to be physically weak.
lol, what does physical strength have to do with anything?? I'm talking financial and political power, which they obviously have oodles of.
They also live in one city, disconnected from the rest of the world.
by that you mean they live in one city which is basically the capital city of the world and pretty much everything flows through there.
The fear people have of them comes from two things - 1.) they're given a free pass to do anything they want and 2.) hurt them and an admiral is sent.
yes and why do you think this is? Power doesn't come from nowhere, the Gorousei aren't going to give them free reign just because of thei families name. They must have great financial and political pull, otherwise the marines who believe in the common good would stop them.
Both of these things come from the government (and marines) itself. It looks like the government just gives them a free pass because the prove they almost divine nature of the WG (as descendants of the founders.)
If this was the case all bankrupt lords would be butchering people elft right and centre based on their old prestige. Poltics doesn't work that way.
What does it have to do with anything I said in that paragraph, hmmm?
Kingdoms that don't join the WG get wiped out and their inhabitants are enslaved in order to build a giant bridge for no apparent purpose.
I don't see the marines or at least all of them as villains. Oda's thrown in the many shades of gray for both pirates and marines.
At the end of the day marines are just doing their job, some more crueler and ruthless than others. Pirates just want to be free, some to the extent they infringe on other people's civil liberties.
In the end those on the side of justice will win and piracy will be a thing of the past.
@SuperJew:
Kingdoms that don't join the WG get wiped out and their inhabitants are enslaved in order to build a giant bridge for no apparent purpose.
I missed this part of information from the cover stories or any other chap concerning Robin since then. I knew there were people enslaved but not all that.
What chap did you read this?
Kingdoms that don't join the WG get wiped out and their inhabitants are enslaved in order to build a giant bridge for no apparent purpose.
Which was by order of the Celestial Dragons, which further proves they have massive political clout.
@SuperJew:
I think I can refute this point with a reference to a shitty Austrian artist who had a terrible mustache.
Who had 42% of the population supporting him at his peak, the rest were kinda going along with it for fear of imminent death. And the majority of them were voting to restore Germany to it's former glory after years of depressing poverty and humiliating defeat. The One Piece world has experienced nothing like that, in fact their economy seems to be booming. Which implies the government's doing quite well.
@Zik:
I missed this part of information from the cover stories or any other chap concerning Robin since then. I knew there were people enslaved but not all that.
What chap did you read this?
Which was by order of the Celestial Dragons, which further proves they have massive political clout.
It doesn't matter about political clout. At some point, you have to hold the people in charge responsible for the crimes they commit and not rely on the excuse that 'they were just following orders'.
Who had 37% of the population supporting him at his peak, the rest were kinda going along with it for fear of imminent death. And the majority of them were voting to restore Germany to it's former glory after years of depressing poverty and humiliating defeat. The One Piece world has experienced nothing like that, in fact their economy seems to be booming. Which implies the government's doing quite well.
Touché on the history lesson (although in my opinion, 'kinda going along with it' is equivalent to approving of their actions).
Although it is mildly troubling that you know how well the economy seems to be doing in this world when it hasn't been alluded to at all, that you assume that just because the economy is booming implies that the government is doing quite well, and the initial figure that 95% of the population loves the government when there's a massive problem with piracy and revolutionaries.
yeah, so blame the Celestial Dragons. It was their decision. I'm not defending them.
in fact their economy seems to be booming.
Which implies the government's doing quite well.
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Do you know why so many people commit crime such as piracy? I don't think I will steal if I am rich. One Piece is one thing. The dream of becoming rich is another thing.
Let's take the era into account. If One Piece was in the real world it'd be set in the mid-Renaissance era (give or take). Even during the biggest booms back then the vast majority of the population was poor. Does that mean all Renaissance governments are evil?
We have pirates like Luffy and Shanks who just want to have adventures. There are also pirates like Arlong and Crocodile who want to take from others. There are Marines like Smoker and Coby who want true justice. There also marines like Akainu who have no problem hurting civilians. (Also, there are plenty of fodder marines who just follow orders, who I sort of feel bad for.) There are plenty of shades of grey there.
But the government itself has been shown as evil. You can argue until you're blue in the face, Airflow, but the narrative has shown no redeeming features for the government. They destroyed an entire nation, tried to track down and kill an infant because of who his father is, covered up the mass escape of dangerous prisoners, support slavery and the abuses of the upper class, enslave whole nations for simply not joining the WG, and so forth. Even if you want to argue that they can't control the Tenryuubito (which I won't believe until we are shown some proof - as of now, the only power they have been shown having is given by the government; I'm willing to bet the Gorusei are members of the elite themselves,) they clearly don't have a problem with anything done - the marines cover up slavery and the Gorusei haven't made any hint of discord.
You can justify destroying an island, murdering innocent civilians and children, and enslaving people as being somehow "necessary," but it's clear that's not the authorial intent. The Gorusei and WG have been set up as villains.
Let's take the era into account. If One Piece was in the real world it'd be set in the mid-Renaissance era (give or take). Even during the biggest booms back then the vast majority of the population was poor.
I was just pointing out that the economy wasn't as good as you said.
Does that mean all Renaissance governments are evil?
No.
LOL, I wouldn't call a government evil. Corrupted is the word.
Seriously, do you know why Dragon wants to overthrow WG so badly? Because the world is doing too well in economy and human right and stuff?
Ivan must have been jailed because of taxes avoidance.
–--------
Back to be serious, heavy taxes were always the indication of a corrupted government.
Pirates just want to be free, some to the extent they infringe on other people's civil liberties.
So you think all the pirates went to the sea for freedom?
@Sea:
Back to be serious, heavy taxes were always the indication of a corrupted government.
Or a failed economy.
So you think all the pirates went to the sea for freedom?
Free in many senses; free to rape, free to steal, free to go on adventures, etc. At it's purest form, a state of nature kind of freedom, for example.
Wealth, Fame and Power.
Those are the basic and specific motives.
Free in many senses; free to rape, free to steal, free to go on adventures, etc. At it's purest form, a state of nature kind of freedom, for example.
LOL, the WG wants to be free to oppress too. Free to enslave. Free to slaughter.
Basically, the freedom you are talking about is the freedom to fulfill some of human needs, the freedom to act as one pleases, which is too generic. Based on whether that freedom affect other people's freedom, it defy good and evil, not only good or bad pirate, but also good and bad human.
@Sea:
Wealth, Fame and Power.
Those are the basic motive.
All of which are preconceived by some form of freedom. They're not trying to obtain wealth by being business tycoons, or obtain fame by being pop icons, or power by rising up the political ladder.
They're trying to steal, kill, destroy, etc. to get the wealth, fame, and power.
@Zik:
All of which are preconceived by some form of freedom. They're not trying to obtain wealth by being business tycoons, or obtain fame by being pop icons, or power by rising up the political ladder.
They're trying to steal, kill, destroy, etc. to get the wealth, fame, and power.
Maybe you missed it. I repeat:
Free in many senses; free to rape, free to steal, free to go on adventures, etc. At it's purest form, a state of nature kind of freedom, for example.
LOL, the WG wants to be free to oppress too. Free to enslave. Free to slaughter. Free to rule.
Basically, the freedom you are talking about is the freedom to fulfill some of human needs, the freedom to act as one pleases, which is too generic. LOL, the WG wants to be free to oppress too. Free to enslave. Free to slaughter.
Basically, the freedom you are talking about is the freedom to fulfill some of human needs, the freedom to act as one pleases, which is too generic. Based on whether that freedom affect other people's freedom, it defies good and evil, not only good or bad pirate, but also good and bad human.
@Sea:
LOL, the WG want to be free to oppress too. Free to enslave. Free to slaughter.
Basically, the freedom you are talking about is the freedom to fulfill some of human needs, the freedom to act as one pleases, which is the motive of all human.
It is not the motives of all humans to seek the freedom/lawlessness of the state of nature. Hope you're not pitching some egoist nonsense.
When it comes to pirates and attaining those 3 things it's not just that they want to get it but get it in a polar opposite way.
As for the WG, they're corrupt so of course they feel entitled to do that with the power and influence they've already amassed.
I am afraid you are not aware of what you are talking about.
@Zik:
Free in many senses; free to rape, free to steal, free to go on adventures, etc. At it's purest form, a state of nature kind of freedom, for example.
@Zik:
Pirates just want to be free, some to the extent they infringe on other people's civil liberties.
So do the corrupted government. They just want to be free, by violating people's civil liberties, like free to imprison, free to oppress, free to enslave, etc.
If you think "the will to have the right to do something morally wrong" is also "a will to have freedom", then that "will" doesn't distinguish the corrupted government, the bad marines soldiers from the evil pirates.
Amassed? Well, if a powerful pirate does whatever the hell he wants then you can say he already obtained that right.
That definition of freedom is too grand.
@Sea:
I am afraid you are not aware of what you are talking about.
If you honestly think it's human nature for all humans to do what the fuck we want you'd be grossly incorrect. I don't know who you would find to agree with you on that other than an egoist or an utilitarian where I would then just laugh at your philosophies and general view on life as it pertains to interacting with other humans. Humans are rational beings, not irrational animals. If you want anything of value in life it requires the cooperation of other people unless you can sustain anything of value on your own infinitely but you're not a GOD or a beast so you can do that.
So do the corrupted government. They just want to be free, by violating people's civil liberties, like free to imprison, free to oppress, free to enslave, etc.
Did you not read the part where I said yes they do because they're corrupt? Of course a corrupt gov't would feel they're free to do what the fuck they want to anyone they govern. I never once disputed that. Nor does that fact dispute what I previously said.
then that will doesn't distinguish the corrupted government and the evil pirates.
I'll just speak on the bold part. I never said it did. Maybe you should go back and read my post instead of selectively quoting. Specifically where I speak on the marines not the WG. Of course those that enforce the law and whether or not they're villains depends on the governing body that passes the law and those that judge the criminals of it.
I wonder what are the relations between the Gorousei and the Tenryuubito. The Tenryuubito don't seem to do any work at all, yet the Gorousei are racking their brains to get the government to work. I think this may mean that even the Gorousei are subservient to the Tenryuubito. However, Oda stated in the manga that They are the world's highest political power, so I don't understand what's their relationship to the nobles.
If you honestly think it's human nature for all humans to do what the fuck we want you'd be grossly incorrect. I don't know who you would find to agree with you on that other than an egoist or an utilitarian where I would then just laugh at your philosophies and general view on life as it pertains to interacting with other humans. Humans are rational beings, not irrational animals. If you want anything of value in life it requires the cooperation of other people unless you can sustain anything of value on your own infinitely but you're not a GOD or a beast so you can do that.
That is not what I said. I said the motive of all human is to satisfy some desire, whatever desire it is. The desire to make other people happy, the desire to sacrifice for others, for example. Or the desire to go against other human's will.
I think you misgot the human need I mentioned. It is not just Physiological needs.
This is Maslow's hierarchy of Human needs:
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[/hide]
@Sea:
That is not what I said. I said the motive of all human is to satisfy some desire, whatever desire it is. The desire to make other people happy, the desire to sacrifice for others, for example. Or the desire to go against other human's will.
Well for some reason you thought I was talking about that but I've already clarified what I was saying as far as freedom and pirates go.
Humans are not motivated to satisfy their desire by any means. They make the choice to obtain their desire in an immoral or unlawful manner (i.e pirates or a corrupted government) ignoring the moral law and lawful path of attaining their desires..
I'm not even talking about this from a psychological standpoint and even if I was Maslow's Hierarchy of needs deals with general stages of needs. It has no bearing on forming an opinion or judgment on whether someone or some group are villains or if an act is considered evil. Plus at the highest stage it supports escaping the state of nature which pirates thrive in.
@Zik:
Humans are not motivated to satisfy their desire by any means.
Then what are you arguing with me for? What is it that motivated you to waste time in this argument? Isn't it your need to satisfy the desire to prove me wrong, or the desire to prove you are right, the desire to be viewed as right, as intelligent, or just the desire to discuss things and learn from arguments?
If you didn't argue with me, then the motive is your desire to avoid trouble, to save time, to maintain peace, etc.
Whatever you are doing, it is motivated by a certain desire to gratify a certain need.
If you don't want to do anything, in other word, have no desire to satisfy, have no inclination to want things, it means you are dead (or losing self-consciousness, to be literally accurate).
Stop here. I think we have gone too far from the actual problem.
@Sea:
Then what are you arguing with me for?What is it that motivated you to waste time in this argument?
Cuz you didn't understand anything I said and went off telling me I don't know what I'm talking about by bringing up things I was never talking about. I wouldn't even call it an argument but me taking the time to make you comprehend what I said.
Isn't it your need to satisfy the desire to prove me wrong, or the desire to prove you are right, the desire to be viewed as right, as intelligent, or just the desire to discuss things and learn from arguments?
Well you were never talking about what I was talking about so after I explained and made it clear what I was talking about why didn't you realize you were wasting your time? I'm not the one confused about what I said, you were.
If you didn't argue with me, then the motive is your desire to avoid trouble, to save time, to maintain peace, etc.
I was making myself clear since I noticed the more you said I'm not aware of what I'm talking about or was wrong it was you who had no idea what I was talking about.
If you don't want to do anything, in other word, have no desire to satisfy, it means you are dead.
No it doesn't. Did you pass psych 101? Satisfying desire is not what is necessary to establish or recognize human life but if you disagree I won't even respond to w/e nonsense you might reply with.
The 5 elder stars themseleves have done nothing indefensible if the Void Century is as dangerous as they make it out to be (and it almost certainly is).
I wouldn't be surprised if it really was
We saw one of them crying have to make that big decision of calling a buster call
I think Oda has set up a sort of spectrum of extremes wherever an ideology is in his story.
Akainu is obviously the extreme for the Marines faction, for those who believe in justice and order.
I think Oda is going to build up DonFlamingo into a sort of extreme of that idea of pirate oriented freedom. He seems similar to a long line of anarchic nihilistic types of characters from the Joker to Namulith.
Meanwhile I also think Blackbeard is supposed to be the dark side of the world of dreamers. If pirates like Flamingo revel in mayhem, the "Morgana" concept. Then Blackbeard is the evil "Peacemain", a complete machevellian who will do anything to achieve his dream and romance.
Sigh, this thread has several rampant problems.
For one, people are lumping into the term "pirates" every single evil pirate, and making their judgment with them in mind. But of course you can't lump all pirates in together. Just because someone is a pirate doesn't mean he's evil or good in this story. A pirate is a pirate. That's all you can say about him/her. So to ask the question are pirates "good" or "evil" in this manga is to miss the point: some of the pirates are good, and some of the pirates are evil.
The second big problem is that people are holding the World Government to the same standards as "pirates." While it is true that the World Government is composed of individuals (who may be either good or bad), it is also true that these individuals form a structured organization. As such, you can judge the organization as a whole as an entity all to itself, a thing bigger than any individual pieces that make it up. With this in mind, we can say that while the government appears to attempt to keep the world at peace and in balance, it has also shown no hesitation in committing mass genocide, supporting slavery, and using the media to cover up or otherwise distort the facts in an effort to influence the population. And this is only what we know; there is likely much more the World Government has done that would appear evil – not the least of which was likely during the Void Century -- if only we knew it.
So to answer the OP's question, the World Government serves as the "fair-minded villain" in the series, while individual pirates may serve as either "good" or "evil," and particular pirates may even serve as specific antagonists (Blackbeard). But this doesn't mean "pirates" are the villains; it means a "pirate" is.
@JERK:
I think Oda has set up a sort of spectrum of extremes wherever an ideology is in his story.
Akainu is obviously the extreme for the Marines faction, for those who believe in justice and order.
I think Oda is going to build up DonFlamingo into a sort of extreme of that idea of pirate oriented freedom. He seems similar to a long line of anarchic nihilistic types of characters from the Joker to Namulith.
Meanwhile I also think Blackbeard is supposed to be the dark side of the world of dreamers. If pirates like Flamingo revel in mayhem, the "Morgana" concept. Then Blackbeard is the evil "Peacemain", a complete machevellian who will do anything to achieve his dream and romance.
Yeah I've kindoff gotten that sense too. Although people have been saying Doflamingo would be more of a minor character, I kindoff see him as being built up to the antithesis of the radical side of the WG. When I first saw him in the manga he kindoff reminded me about the Joker. They both tend to make grandiose statements about society and the nature of man, not to mention they're both criminally insane. I think Flamingo believes in kindoff like a social darwanism type of structure, while Akainu wants a total utopia of the world; where everyone is at peace and no pirates exist.
I think the point right now that they're both misguided in their views, but later on as Oda develops Flamingo a little bit more we should probably get more of an idea of his exact views. Also I think (like with the joker) he might not get a backstory that would help make his ideology more understandable. He might remain that mysterious, psychotic villian that nobody really knows how to deal with.
Him and Kidd seem to make the most philosophical statements in the series so far, so because of that I can't really see them just having their own story arc. I can see at least with DD him going all the way to Raftel.
Donflamingo is the most interesting of these three potential huge antagonists because he's the most ideologically opposed to Luffy. Sure Luffy will stand up for the people Akainu and Blackbeard terrorize, and it's personal because of Ace with both.
But think about how interesting the conflict of ideas was in Jaya with Bellamy. I think that was just Oda giving us a preview of what he intends to do with Donflamingo in the long run.
@Sea:
All of them are just stupid, doing stuff they think are right.
That's Plato's view… If someone sees what is Good and understand why it is good, why would he not do it? Hence all evil is derived from ignorance.
Some people answered to the rhetorical question (why would he not do it?) that people are just lazy. Hence:
"Evil is made without effort, naturally, by fatality; good is always the product of an art" (Baudelaire)
paraphrased:
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" (Edmund Burke)
As interesting as his view was I couldn't agree with it. On that topic Aristotle > Plato.