Corrupt governments and horrible mind bending truths have done before even in Japanese comic books.
well..yeah you're right, maybe I specifically mentioned those because I just love that kind of plots
Corrupt governments and horrible mind bending truths have done before even in Japanese comic books.
well..yeah you're right, maybe I specifically mentioned those because I just love that kind of plots
…even Lone Wolf and Cub could be considered typical samurai pulp, although of undeniably high quality (pretty drawn out though, many of the stories blend)
It is my understanding that LWaC started that samurai pulp you're talking about.
So revolutionary it is. Even Vagabond can be seen as a rip-off in terms of themes and so.
One Piece may not be revolutionary in creating the most original ideas, but Oda did extremely well executing them.
His commitment in fan interaction may be the most revolutionary aspect of his work. SBS is in almost EVERY VOLUME.
Artwise, Oda's is based off of Toriyama's. But not so angular, and with very different shading. Some of his character designs are revolutionary. Specifically, even the most powerful and manly characters have awkward appearances. This may be a turn-off to some people.
Storywise, Oda's executing his story as if every major arc has a strong connection to the main story. This isn't new. It did provide a complete thematic overthrow mid-story.
And finally, his dedication and commitment to the quality of his manga is truly moving. Over 12 years in the works, and it's even stronger than it was at the beginning. Kochikame may be the oldest running series, period, but the story doesn't actually move anywhere (that's because it isn't supposed to). Hajime no Ippo is also over 20 years old, but the quality sags and the main story development is completely stalled. Eiichiro Oda hasn't worked as long as either of the two, but his manga blows them out of the water in popularity. Although I actually disagree that popularity indicates quality, popularity is celebrated and sponsored far more frequently.
Does the poll reveal 'revolutionary' in what way?
I can see how it'd be revolutionary if it was referring to Oda's skill itself.
I can see how it'd be revolutionary if it was referring to Oda's skill itself.
this. But then again he should've been in the first.
I am disappointed in how much on-a-pedestal is going on in this thread.
Granted I haven't read all manga in the world but I cant think of any other that has such an internally consistent universe. Where everything was so meticulously planned (years in advance!) that an unremarkable character we may only see for a panel or so could turn out to be of supreme importance later on. Like Laboon for example, or Silvers Rayleigh. Even Ace's vivre card. NO other manga I've ever read gives you such a sense of epic scope.
IMO
I see One Piece everywhere in Japanese and Taiwanese merchandise. My sister has an ocarina manual (bought recently) that has Luffy placed randomly in open spaces.
Revolutionary may actually refer to it's affect on merchandise culture. If that's the case, the top five are well deserved.
I think its revolutionary for stuff like the cover stories and the way he deals with some characters. Yea he's making a typical shonen but he also adds in so many elements that make other shonen mangaka's look lazy. the powers (devil fruits) are pretty interesting too, I mean yea mr. fantastic/elastic man/elongated man are all like luffy but luffy's power's are used very interestingly. Then there are some pretty basic power we've seen before (sand/ice/fire) but then there is the soap soap fruit.
Maybe it still hasn't changed the manga world but it's certainly a change from reading other shonens ( I think it's refreshing). I think that while it's DB's child it takes it to another level while other shonens have fallen behind. His incredibly hard work is clearly noticeable in the quality of the manga,( he made a movie and this epic War arc at the same time) and I don't get the same feeling from other shonen mangaka's who make writing shonen look easy.
that's all i can come up with for why it could be revolutionary, but maybe you guys are right xD
There may be a lof of questions unanswered that may be in the article, for example:
*who, precisely, voted and how the people to be included were chosen?
*What sort of vote it was–as in were the choices listed or was it fill-in-the-blank?
*Was it industry specific or was the general public involved?
We don't even know exactly how important this poll is overall in the Japanese manga industry. Maybe someone (Aohige if he has time, or some other kind person?) can read it over, at least, or even translate it if it's not too much bother, and see if any of that info is in there? It may help put some of the controversy over the poll itself, and it's validity, into better persective.
@I:
There may be a lof of questions unanswered that may be in the article, for example:
*who, precisely, voted and how the people to be included were chosen?
*What sort of vote it was–as in were the choices listed or was it fill-in-the-blank?
*Was it industry specific or was the general public involved?We don't even know exactly how important this poll is overall in the Japanese manga industry. Maybe someone (Aohige if he has time, or some other kind person?) can read it over, at least, or even translate it if it's not too much bother, and see if any of that info is in there? It may help put some of the controversy over the poll itself, and it's validity, into better persective.
Seems like a standard Oricon survery. In other words, it's a fairly small sample among all ages.
Seems like a standard Oricon survery. In other words, it's a fairly small sample among all ages.
IS that right? I'm not familiar with Oricon. So it's not industry related–noone specifically included who would be considered "knowledgable" about the manga industry, at least not on purpose; in essence--not a terribly important poll, then?
Meh, if that's the case, that'd make it more a popularity contest than anything...
it's typical in the basic ideas only. And OP's plot also has the secrets of the WG and the Void Century…etc
Do you seriously think conspiracies and ancient sealed weapons are new concepts???
And that those are even things worth weighting in terms of innovation???
Seriously???
One Piece may not be revolutionary in influence, yet…but it is revolutionarily good... it is inspired by Dragon Ball, but to say they are in the same ball park in terms of narrative execution, pot crack insane....
They are. Toriyama invented half the shonen cliches we take for granted today, had a terrific imagination, and his combat is excellently portrayed.
Have you even read it? Because there's nothing I'm more sick of then idiots who saw some dubbed dbz a decade ago and think they have the slightest clue what they're talking about.
The basic story is typical, but the quests sure as hell ain't
Yes they are.
Read more, watch more.
…to say everything is typical is simply false...I suppose it depends on the lense you use...even Lone Wolf and Cub could be considered typical samurai pulp, although of undeniably high quality (pretty drawn out though, many of the stories blend)
There was no samurai pulp until Lone Wolf and Cub.
SGRaaize: What OP does beyond any shounen, or many non shounen, is is continually throw up creative takes on rather cliched situations.
So execution, not innovation. Congrats.
And HXH does this too. As did Dragonball in it's day.
..this is something exceptionally hard to do…Its also more consistant than pretty much any shounen that has existed.
Which is execution not innovation.
Personally, one of the reasons I don't think we have many OP clones is because, there aren't many Mangaka's as talented as Oda…some items that are put forward as revolutionary, are also one trick ponies...OP certainly ain't a one trick pony
We already have the lifeworks of Hiro Mashima, there will be many more.
@I:
that'd make it more a popularity contest than anything…
Hit it right on the nose, friend.
One Piece is NOT revolutionary.
Oda's:
Storytelling - taking typical Shounen plot to the limit. Not revolutionary.
Art - Toriyama + his own touch. Nothing revolutionary.
Characters - Toriyama mainly. Again, nothing revolutionary.
Humor - Very typical Shounen humor, but he does it so well and so often.
"Not revolutionary" =/= "Not outstanding/great/perfect/awesome/whatever.praise.you.guys.wanna.put.here". Oda has yet to step into a realm that has never been touched on before. What he HAS done is taken everything that is Shounen, and perfected it. Saying stuff like "One Piece is revolutionary as a whole" is complete bullshit that makes no sense.
I see One Piece everywhere in Japanese and Taiwanese merchandise. My sister has an ocarina manual (bought recently) that has Luffy placed randomly in open spaces.
Revolutionary may actually refer to it's affect on merchandise culture. If that's the case, the top five are well deserved.
I was also thinking this , when Strong World came out OP was in things that never had a manga char in it or maybe i remember wrong .
Maybe it could also be about sales or how OP cross so many age groups both male and female.
The story it's self don't have to be revolutionary but the effect of the manga in sales ,merchandise culture , age groups ,advertising and other things can be.
I don't think Oda's art looks anything like Toriyama's.
It's uniquely his, not enough to be revolutionary, but it's nothing I've seen anywhere before, and definitely not Toriyama.
I was also thinking this , when Strong World came out OP was in things that never had a manga char in it or maybe i remember wrong .
Maybe it could also be about sales or how OP cross so many age groups both male and female.
The story it's self don't have to be revolutionary but the effect of the manga in sales ,merchandise culture , age groups ,advertising and other things can be.
Kishimoto and his revolutionizing manga Naruto should be on the list if that was the case.
As other people have mentioned, I'm also pretty shocked that Nagai didn't make it on that list.
I also want to say Ishinomori, but his major influences weren't necessarily in manga.
@No:
Then what's the value of this poll then ?
And given how much it sells - and the recent news on the anouncements done by Nami's VA - I honestly think it could become revolutionary eventualy , though not sure when that would be .
It already surprassed Dragonball in sales so I dunno what other DON moment could possibly be seen as a sign .
Anyways , Dragonball is good , but it too is flawed , like everything else .
what did she announce?
@-wahn-:
Kishimoto and his revolutionizing manga Naruto should be on the list if that was the case.
Why ?
…............
Why ?
…
because you said
Maybe it could also be about sales or how OP cross so many age groups both male and female.
The story it's self don't have to be revolutionary but the effect of the manga in sales ,merchandise culture , age groups ,advertising and other things can be.
Naruto manga are also amongst the top sales (both in Japan and outside Japan), it also has tons of merchandises, it also attracted all ages and both genders, it also has a fair amount of advertisement (perhaps not as big as OP but clicky) and like it or not, it also being part of the reason many people outside Japan getting into anime/manga after the Pokemon phenomenon went down.
What I'm trying to say is; your logic about OP being revolutionary based on the reception of the manga sales, merchandise etc are totally invalid because OP isn't the first manga that has that kind of accomplishment. It was also not the only manga to achieved that level.
People should stop making an excuse or reasoning about OP being revolutionary. It's not, get over it. It doesn't mean OP is not a good manga and Oda is a low tier mangaka. He loves Shonen, so he attempts to perfect the element in it, and he's done a pretty good job on it so far.
The Rolling Stones didn't invent blues-rock???
UGH THEY SUCK NOW
@-wahn-:
(perhaps not as big as OP but clicky)
..what are you trying to say there? You don't think the city was named after the manga, right?
..what are you trying to say there? You don't think the city was named after the manga, right?
I was about to laugh at him too, but then I read the trivia sub-section…
..what are you trying to say there? You don't think the city was named after the manga, right?
Trivia section .
In honor of the Naruto manga selling over 100 million volumes, the city of Naruto, Japan will begin selling 100 million Yen worth of Naruto themed currency. This special money will be redeemable at around 250 shops in the city of Naruto and will be accepted until the end of the year 2010.
Wow…
On one hand, that's awesome, on the other, what the fuck
In honor of the Naruto manga selling over 100 million volumes, the city of Naruto, Japan will begin selling 100 million Yen worth of Naruto themed currency. This special money will be redeemable at around 250 shops in the city of Naruto and will be accepted until the end of the year 2010.
ew.
People should stop making an excuse or reasoning about OP being revolutionary. It's not, get over it.
That's why I'm trying to think of the possibility that it may be Oda himself who is revolutionary.
But yeah, it's a popularity poll.
Wonder why Kubo isn't on this list.
I bet his mass trolling will be looked upon by future manga-readers as some straight up Kaufman type shit.
The narutofan discussion for this is as terrible as all ways, even some douche insulted Dragonball and practically said it didn't deserve the spot.
Well I'd like to know what that person's exact reasoning was since DB regardless of it's quality was certainly revolutionary as far as Japanese comic books go.
Narutofan has never not had a terrible opinion about something.
Particularly the OP section.
@JERK:
Narutofan has never not had a terrible opinion about something.
Particularly the OP section.
Phenom and other posters terrorizing the thread.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=33917286&postcount=264
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=33899329&postcount=221
lol.
Oh and Atheos is there.
Dear goodness. Especially the second link.
Yeah, I'm not going there.
Narutofan is full of 13 year old manga specialists.
Wow…
On one hand, that's awesome, on the other, what the fuck
Eh, it's a very small town. Some publicity doesn't hurt.
Phenom and other posters terrorizing the thread.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=33917286&postcount=264
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=33899329&postcount=221
lol.
Oh and Atheos is there.
First link: True
Second link:
! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
[[quote]First link: TrueIt isn't so much for the fact he is right, is so much to reveal he is a certain infamous member , as his annoying tendency to have these flashy names sorta reveal it.
Is anyone going to tell just what did Nami's VA announce?
First link: True
what? did you read well what he wrote?
[hide]
Oda's manga did none of that [but copy and paste; generic]
No it doesn't cause there is no unique quality in his story that seperates him from the rest.
[/hide]
you think this is true?
He's a hater who is exaggerating, but I rather have a hater that is exaggerating on the negative side than a lover who is exaggerating on the positive side
negative? what do you mean:blink:?
I rather have someone saying "One Piece is an unoriginal piece of shit" than "One Piece is the best manga ever, no one ever thought of something storyline-wise as this, its absolutely perfect, Oda is God"
Phenom and other posters terrorizing the thread.
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=33917286&postcount=264
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=33899329&postcount=221
lol.
Oh and Atheos is there.
Aethos lolllll, I forgot about that wiener. He used to be a big poster here during the pre-NPC generation.
Is anyone going to tell just what did Nami's VA announce?
Um…never mind
Seeing as Goku has an insane influence on modern Shonen , I would like
I like to think Goku, at least at the start is really a textbook example of wild feral character in many fiction.
I think this is an interesting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_Children_in_Mythology_and_Fiction
some have been documented to have been carefree and quite innocent
Tarzan is a lot like Goku origin wise, definitely not much personality-wise.
Toriyama even mentioned Tarzan in a manga chapter of early dragonball.
Yeah, yeah I know Goku is based on Chackie Chan and Bruce lee but they can't possibly be the core influence on the character.
@-wahn-:
…
because you said
Naruto manga are also amongst the top sales (both in Japan and outside Japan), it also has tons of merchandises, it also attracted all ages and both genders, it also has a fair amount of advertisement (perhaps not as big as OP but clicky) and like it or not, it also being part of the reason many people outside Japan getting into anime/manga after the Pokemon phenomenon went down.
What I'm trying to say is; your logic about OP being revolutionary based on the reception of the manga sales, merchandise etc are totally invalid because OP isn't the first manga that has that kind of accomplishment. It was also not the only manga to achieved that level.
People should stop making an excuse or reasoning about OP being revolutionary. It's not, get over it. It doesn't mean OP is not a good manga and Oda is a low tier mangaka. He loves Shonen, so he attempts to perfect the element in it, and he's done a pretty good job on it so far.
Has any manga broken the first print run of any book in japan.
Has any other manga sold 2 million copies in a week .
Name another manga that has done what OP has done in sales.
Even the way OP movie 10 was advertise was bigger than any other manga base movie i ever see. Men's fashion magazine and a 9 page spread in one of Japan biggest news paper.
Just because Oda was doing the movie and OP so popular it allow them to advertise in ways they never would. I would say that cover the second part .
rev·o·lu·tion·ar·y [rev-uh-loo-shuh-ner-ee] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural -ar·ies.
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change: a revolutionary junta.
2.
radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.: a revolutionary discovery.
No, sorry. Nothing posted in this thread as of yet fits the bill for either definitions (that I happened to post earlier, as well).
Has any manga broken the first print run of any book in japan.
Has any other manga sold 2 million copies in a week .
Name another manga that has done what OP has done in sales.
Slam Dunk and Dragonball more or less. And Slam Dunk has only 28 books.
Also sales mean…...exactly what?
Even the way OP movie 10 was advertise was bigger than any other manga base movie i ever see. Men's fashion magazine and a 9 page spread in one of Japan biggest news paper.
None of this compares to Dragonball I assure you.
rev·o·lu·tion·ar·y [rev-uh-loo-shuh-ner-ee] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural -ar·ies.
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change: a revolutionary junta.
2.
radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.: a revolutionary discovery.
I'm glad you posted this again in order to refute yourself.
Did naruto broken the sales record of first print of a manga run twice in a row or a book record.
Naruto is not worthy of being mentioned here. Perhaps you should add Dragon ball or something at least.
Has any other manga sold 2 million copies in a week .
What is the best selling manga in shonen Jump.
Name another manga that has done what OP has done in sales.
Argument based on pure popularity.
Even the way OP movie 10 was advertise was bigger than any other manga base movie i ever see. Men's fashion magazine and a 9 page spread in one of Japan biggest news paper.
Just because Oda was doing the movie and OP so popular it allow them to
advertise in ways they never would. I would say that cover the second part .
This is a poll based solely on revolutionary quality..
Popularity does not inherently equate quality.
Is Naruto better then Lone Wolf Cub, no, more revolutionary then that because it certainly sold a shit load then Lone Wolf Cub?
rev·o·lu·tion·ar·y [rev-uh-loo-shuh-ner-ee] Show IPA adjective, noun, plural -ar·ies.
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change: a revolutionary junta.
2.
radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.: a revolutionary discovery.
One Piece really is just a well told adventure comic.
Your making the mistake in thinking that people are downplaying One Piece because of it. You don't really need to be revolutionary to be great. Sometimes revolutionary could also be associated with "bad".
I mean I happen to blame Evangelion for what the ''take yourself overly seriously tone in modern anime.
Hell Dragonball may have revolutionized shonen for worse and better
Look at Rave Master. (I've read it now, and damn) and more-so Fairy tail.
and Bleach. Fucking Bleach. Its influenced by Dragonball, no doubt and its awful, plain shit that's not even worth as even toilet paper.
Hell Dragonball may have revolutionized shonen for worse.
Look Rave Master. (I've read it now, and damn) and more-so Fairy tail.
and Bleach. Fucking Bleach. Its influence by Dragonball, no doubt and its awful, plain shit that's not even worth as even toilet paper.
Nah, pre-DB era had plenty of shitty series already.
Bleach's main influence was Saint Seiya, according to Kubo. Blame Masami Kurumada for that.