@JERK:
Luffy got hit hard by him no doubt, but this was without using Gear2, which should come as no surprise. The idea seems to be Luffy developed Gear after Aokiji but before Water7 so it's not like he couldn't have done that. The "match" with CP9 was more a quick confused emotionally topsy turvy squabble.
There was no significant time skip from the AoKiji fight until either of Luffy's fights with Lucci.
@Robo:
And Zoro can take out 4 at full strength?
At this point Luffy and Zoro have both yet to show their new skill levels after the giant amounts of they've taken in impel down/marineford and thriller bark respectively.
as zoro said "when a human takes damage it gets stronger, a ships wounds just keep piling up"
Luffy even said himself that thanks to cp9 he has gotten much stronger and can now more efficiently protect his friends.
Luffy said to Blueno due to Aokiji incident (not CP9) he came up with a way to to fight at his fullest, which is the gears. And even at his fullest he couldn't beat a pacifista, which is obvious. I don't think he can come up with another way to use more of his body potential to power up in short time (what does "fullest" mean?)
Or you say he can learn haki in a 2 days and become 5 times stronger than before? That would be lame.
Also I think the crew could easily take out 5 pacifistas right now. remember zoro was messed up last time and they still took out one.
And without that messed up Zoro the crew would likely have gotten beaten. By a damn machine.
@Badass:
And Perona can make the Pacifistas negative, amirite?
That's kinda already happened.
Sex appeal, Perona's the epitome of my wet dreams.
I've been compared to a Pacisfista by a user before, so it's only natural! :wub:
No, Perona can blow them up. And, if she can do the AP to a parasol, I believe that she can AP a Pacisfista.
@The:
Luffy said to Blueno due to Aokiji incident (not CP9) he came up with a way to to fight at his fullest, which is the gears. And even at his fullest he couldn't beat a pacifista, which is obvious. I don't think he can come up with another way to use more of his body potential to power up in short time (what does "fullest" mean?)
Or you say he can learn haki in a 2 days and become 5 times stronger than before? That would be lame.
And without that messed up Zoro the crew would likely have gotten beaten. By a damn machine.
I am suggesting that both Luffy and Zoro are twice as powerful as the last time we've seen them fight at full strength, that being thriller bark for Zoro, and against the kumabot for Luffy.
and whoever it was that made luffy get strong the point is he did it in a short amount of time.
@Robo:
There was no significant time skip from the AoKiji fight until either of Luffy's fights with Lucci.
There an undetermined amount of time wherein techniques could be developed. Much fucking more then techniques would be needed to change their current status.
At this point Luffy and Zoro have both yet to show their new skill levels after the giant amounts of they've taken in impel down/marineford and thriller bark respectively.
Zoro was not incommunicado, stop saying this shit. He was fully mobile and able to wield some of his strongest attacks he had.
Hell, we SAW Zoro's post-TB power against Kuma.
Luffy didn't develop anything except maybe a little more unwitting Haki skill during the War.
as zoro said "when a human takes damage it gets stronger, a ships wounds just keep piling up"
Cool, so you actually think this statement means humans in One Piece are like Saiyens, and is not just a generic statement regarding the difference between living and non-living things.
Welcome to the esteemed Phenomonyl club of terrible reading comprehension.
@JERK:
There an undetermined amount of time wherein techniques could be developed. Much fucking more then techniques would be needed to change their current status.
Zoro was not incommunicado, stop saying this shit. He was fully mobile and able to wield some of his strongest attacks he had.
Hell, we SAW Zoro's post-TB power against Kuma.
Luffy didn't develop anything except maybe a little more unwitting Haki skill during the War.
Cool, so you actually think this statement means humans in One Piece are like Saiyens, and is not just a generic statement regarding the difference between living and non-living things.
Welcome to the esteemed Phenomonyl club of terrible reading comprehension.
Im not taking it as that literally if you do damage to someone, that the damage is the catalyst for improvement. I'm saying that the way luffy and zoro pushed themselves, (especially luffy) made them stronger willed, gave them more endurance, and in luffy's case, he was fighting with extremely powerful opponents, which to me sounds like top notch agility training.
And just cause zoro could perform his top notch moves doesnt mean they were at maximum strength, moves dont just do a set amount of damage. zoro could even dodge the kumabots attack while messed up. he could easily take one by himself in good health.
I'm including the aftermath of the fight with kuma as a large notch in zoros belt. Seeing as he is essentially the groups tank, a lot of his ability to win is based on endurance, something that giant ball of paw pain certainly affected
@JERK:
There an undetermined amount of time wherein techniques could be developed. Much fucking more then techniques would be needed to change their current status.
So then why do the strawhats need years to get good enough to defeat pacifistas?
@Robo:
So then why do the strawhats need years to get good enough to defeat pacifistas?
robots can be improved / there could be hundreds of them against the crew
I see the latter as more likely…
Zephos, did you reply to my posts somewhere in this thread, by chance… If not, then that's alright.
Could you point me to it, if you did...
@Robo:
So then why do the strawhats need years to get good enough to defeat pacifistas?
Did I not just say there's a difference between developing a single new technique, and the overall need to significantly upgrade yourself in every way?
You're also acting as if The strawhats faced what they couldn't touch then overcame it after that brief travel time.
Last time I checked they hadn't beaten Aokiji.
I'm saying that the way luffy and zoro pushed themselves, especially made them stronger willed, gave them more endurance, and in luffy's case, he was fighting with extremely powerful opponents, which to me sounds like top notch training.
Luffy got pancacked by the superpowers. How does he gain anything from getting kicked by Kizaru? Or being partially impaled in the side by Akainu? Or being poisoned half to death by Magellan?
Luffy made no significant gains on any real major power. He took out mostly Marine captains, and landed a few good blows on what might have been Vice Admirals.
Zoro didn't really fucking do much of anything. He fight Oz like the rest, and beat Ryuma by taking advantage of fire. Then got pancacked by Kuma. Kuma coming after all the other action.
And just cause zoro could perform his top notch moves doesnt mean they were at maximum strength, moves dont just do a set amount of damage like in rpgs.
There was no suggestion that he made a wimpy Ashura.
Zephos, did you reply to my posts somewhere in this thread, by chance… If not, then that's alright.
Could you point me to it, if you did...
I'll be sure to rush on over and address posts comprised of bold faced lies, assertions that everything a timeskip would do would be dissapointing to you, and confessions that you masturbate to Perona.
@JERK:
I'll be sure to rush on over and address posts comprised of bold faced lies, assertions that everything a timeskip would do would be dissapointing to you, and confessions that you masturbate to Perona.
Just the first two before that, the ones that are longer in size. You can omit the silly ones that followed after those two.
I can find them, really…
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1629144&postcount=138
http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=1628448&postcount=119
These two are really the only ones that need to be addressed, you can skip the others if you wish or like to. They're just redundant as you best put them.
@JERK:
Did I not just say there's a difference between developing a single new technique, and the overall need to significantly upgrade yourself in every way?
Why would they need to do that? They just need to get more powerfull. Where does Luffy say he needs to upgrade himslef in every way?
You're also acting as if The strawhats faced what they couldn't touch then overcame it after that brief travel time.
Last time I checked they hadn't beaten Aokiji.
Well, that's because that's pretty much exactly what happened. They couldn't touch CP9. Their attacks had no effect. They landed, literally 1 attack in the first confrontation and it barely damaged Lucci.
Gear second does not allow luffy to detect faster movements, yet he was somehow able to learn that between fighting lucci the first time and the second time, and he had certainly done less fighting in that time than he has in impel down / marineford
All Zoro's moves preformed in the state his was in are weaker, his attacks are based off raw strength and in his condition his strength was significantly diminished.
I would bet 100 dollars that Luffy and Zoro as they are now but at perfect health could each take a kumabot on solo
Just the first two before that, the ones that are longer in size. You can omit the silly ones that followed after those two.
I can find them, really…
I mentioned this one. It's some nonsensical rant about how Oda is damned if he does or if he doesn't in regards to a timeskip because people will expect very big things and be let down no matter what. To which I respond, who cares what the fanboy response is. Oda already ignored that in killing Ace.
At least that's what I got from it since it was poorly written.
Full of horseshit.
You decide out of the blue that Luffy has remained consistently fast and strong. Which is absurd. You even invoke "he's only human after all" in defense which is absolutely beyond beleif in how wrong it is.
Luffy has not reached a limit he can't rise above.
Luffy has not remained consistent since the start.
You even have the audacity to end as stupid a statement as this with calling everyone else naive.
@Robo:
Why would they need to do that. they just need to get more powerfull. Where does Luffy say he needs to upgrade himslef in every way?
What do you think I meant??
Well, that's because that's pretty much exactly what happened. They couldn't touch CP9. Their attacks had no effect. They landed, literally 1 attack in the first confrontation and it barely damaged Lucci.
Thanks for completely skipping my breakdown of why this is all wrong against Deicide.
Gear second does not allow luffy to detect faster movements,
Yet that is what we're shown. Show me normal Luffy reacting to Lucci's Soru.
Gear2 is like a personal source of PCP. Why would we assume it would put him in a similar state of power as normal?
Luffy fights pretty uselessly against him and only when using Gear 2 does he land real damage. Getting used to Soru by encountering it makes sense. And he doesn't even react well to Lucci's normal speed during their fight, he just recovers well, which is more exemplory of him being in the zone rather then the confused emotional state of Robin's betrayal.
yet he was somehow able to learn that between fighting lucci the first time and the second time, and he had certainly done less fighting in that time than he has in impel down / marineford
He didn't learn Gear2 on the Rocketman. And what are you saying he learned if not that?
All Zoro's moves preformed in the state his was in are weaker, his attacks are based off raw strength and in his condition his strength was significantly diminished.
It never says he's lacking in oomph. Just exhausted and hurting.
I would bet 100 dollars that Luffy and Zoro as they are now but at perfect health could each take a kumabot on solo
So in leiu of making a workingt argument for it you'll throw money at it. If only forums worked that way.
Gear second does not allow luffy to detect faster movements, yet he was somehow able to learn that between fighting lucci the first time and the second time, and he had certainly done less fighting in that time than he has in impel down / marineford
All Zoro's moves preformed in the state his was in are weaker, his attacks are based off raw strength and in his condition his strength was significantly diminished.
I would bet 100 dollars that Luffy and Zoro as they are now but at perfect health could each take a kumabot on solo
Zoro ought to be able to damage one, and scathe through the armor. Luffy is confirmed to already be able to, one way or another…
So, Pacisifista aren't a problem to them, and expecting Nami to take out a single one is a little unbelievable, ain't it?
I just don't see what point Oda has to change his whole pace with a time skip like the ones you guys keep expecting.
@JERK:
What do you think I meant??
And despite taking at most 2 weeks to develop gear 3, it will take him a year to undergo improvement now?
Thanks for completely skipping my breakdown of why this is all wrong against Deicide.
So how do you account for their inability to land more than 1 hit? Luffy and Zoro are the strongest on the crew and they couldn't do shit. I'm pretty sure going from landing 1 blow (couldn't even hit blueno who is mid-tier CP9) and getting sent flying to KOing your opponent is a pretty big improvement. And if you want to call getting sent flying by CP9 undecided, then there pacifista battle is aswell. Kuma sent them all flying.
Zoro ought to be able to damage one, and scathe through the armor. Luffy is confirmed to already be able to, one way or another…
So, Pacisifista aren't a problem to them, and expecting Nami to take out a single one is a little unbelievable, ain't it?
I just don't see what point Oda has to change his whole pace with a time skip like the ones you guys keep expecting.
Iva said that Luffy would be dead after the last batch of hormones wore off. I feel like the least we can expect is for Luffy to be out for at minimum a couple weeks.
I dont think we will see a time skip as much as a peroid of nakama main stories with luffy cannon on some of the covers.
Like I said before, this could involve multiple, short time skips, or maybe just a general quicker time pace. I mean seriously, the last 20 episodes have been practically in real time…
And isn't it convenient that hes on an island that, as long as Boa keeps her warlord status (which Oda has meticulously kept possible), is extremely safe from the government.
@JERK:
I mentioned this one. It's some nonsensical rant about how Oda is damned if he does or if he doesn't in regards to a timeskip because people will expect very big things and be let down no matter what. To which I respond, who cares what the fanboy response is. Oda already ignored that in killing Ace.
At least that's what I got from it since it was poorly written.
I'll probably rewrite this using key terms to explain it. Maybe even examples later on.
I am sorry for it being terrible, :getlost:
Full of horseshit.
You decide out of the blue that Luffy has remained consistently fast and strong. Which is absurd. You even invoke "he's only human after all" in defense which is absolutely beyond beleif in how wrong it is.
Luffy has not reached a limit he can't rise above.
Luffy has not remained consistent since the start.You even have the audacity to end as stupid a statement as this with calling everyone else naive.
It's not wrong. His base has been consistent. He can keep up with Soru, or a rough version of it, since Kuro Arc– that was like under a short while until when he left his island. It was probably his second "island" town anyway.
He was able to stick with Bleuno with relative ease, Lucci, though, seemed to be faster.
This shows that Luffy's speed has been this way pretty much all the way through the manga.
His "power" is pretty self-explanatory; there's really no change from the manga.
To deny this stuff is puzzling. It's there.
And these make up his base.
However, Oda controls the way Luffy gets better and stuff by adding and changing "experience" that Luffy has:
Then, to show this, Oda has taken the time to UPGRADE Luffy from a rookie, to whatever he's called now.
All of it is based off of experience, not "getting stronger" physically, and stuff.
That limit, it's not that far off… However, the thing I'm talking about is when you remove DF and experience, and then compare Luffy's stats with any character... The result is that Luffy's already at that stage, however, he just cannot keep up with the overpowering Devil Fruits or the greater experience that a person has.
Luffy can't handle Logias at this moment-- he's strong enough to handle anyone, but he just can't hit them.
For this, you don't need to have a year just to allow him the chance to hit a Logia. Haki isn't really enough to stimulate some time skip-- nor would anything else.
@JERK:
Yet that is what we're shown. Show me normal Luffy reacting to Lucci's Soru.
I am saying that while luffy learned gear second he also developed other skills, he didnt have either gear second or improved senses the first time he fought lucci, he did the second time, just my theory
Luffy fights pretty uselessly against him and only when using Gear 2 does he land real damage. Getting used to Soru by encountering it makes sense.
This means the same thing as enhanced senses to me and is exactly what im talking about. if he can "get used" to lucci and soru, then he can "get used" to kumabots and haki attacks etc. what you are calling getting used to I am just calling gained experience or training if you will.
He didn't learn Gear2 on the Rocketman. And what are you saying he learned if not that?
I'm not sure if i know what you mean by this….
I dont know the exact moment he learned gear seccond, but it was certainly before the fight with blueno, and after the first fight with lucci.
It never says he's lacking in oomph. Just exhausted and hurting.
I would define "lack of oomph" as pain and exhaustion to a lesser degree….
So in leiu of making a workingt argument for it you'll throw money at it. If only forums worked that way.
saying i would bet money on something is just a way of saying i am really really sure of it. In fact it means just as much as anything else you post on a forum, whatever the reader gets out of it
Originally Posted by a now banned AP user; February 18, 2008
I honestly don't care about Ace anymore.. He's dead to me :C
Ace would have been much cooler if he joined Black Beard. ;)
Iva said that Luffy would be dead after the last batch of hormones wore off. I feel like the least we can expect is for Luffy to be out for at minimum a couple weeks.
I dont think we will see a time skip as much as a peroid of nakama main stories with luffy cannon on some of the covers.
Like I said before, this could involve multiple, short time skips, or maybe just a general quicker time pace. I mean seriously, the last 20 episodes have been practically in real time…
And isn't it convenient that hes on an island that, as long as Boa keeps her warlord status (which Oda has meticulously kept possible), is extremely safe from the government.
I agree with this idea, it's something that I felt would happen too. The only thing that I have to question is how Oda plans to get them all on the same page, like when they end up coming together finally.
Considering the characterization, Luffy's going to be rash and will rush to find them, rather than doing anything else.
Sanji seems like he's ready to go, heading towards the boats.
Usopp seems to have gotten the courage he needed to finally leave, he ought to be able to handle everything that's needed to make a floating object; plus, I think he's the closest of every character out there…
Chopper should use the bird to fly him into the GL.
Robin's already on her way-- don't know how this will work out though.
Nami is not something I can predict... too many unknowns.
Brook should be given a ship later on.
Franky is fine with it.
Zoro just needs a ship and Perona's help.
So, to me, this really doesn't need to take ages to explain, since Oda has seemingly shown enough to get the idea of how they all leave and return.
I still think that since it may take around 2 to 3 weeks until they all get back together considering that Luffy will rest a little longer, and the AL to SA trip takes some time. Although, I don't have any definite idea how Oda wants Luffy to head back, he has options.
As you say it up there, I believe it's how Oda would write the whole thing, although, he could do the same thing he did with the way he showed them as Luffy was heading to ID. However, this time, it would be Luffy heading to SA, and Oda would end each and every SH serial with them "on the sea" or something like that...
@Robo:
And despite taking at most 2 weeks to develop gear 3, it will take him a year to undergo improvement now?
Gear 3 wasn't even all that great. It comes with a price and was in no way a clincher move against Lucci, who managed to take one and very much stay in the game.
You're overrating what he did with the Gears.
@Robo:
So how do you account for their inability to land more than 1 hit? Luffy and Zoro are the strongest on the crew and they couldn't do shit.
You guys have very poor memories of all this don't you.
They don't land most of their hits due to Tekkai, which they STILL can't beat with normal blows at EL. Luffy's basic punches are still deflected by even Blueno's tekkai at EL. The one that gets through is Gum Gum Rifle, which as we know is one of his better moves. Which he didn't use at W7.
Lucci still easily dodges most of his attacks as well when he's in normal. And they still dodge all Shigan's, because those suckers are still going to do damage.
I'm pretty sure going from landing 1 blow (couldn't even hit blueno who is mid-tier CP9) and getting sent flying to KOing your opponent is a pretty big improvement. And if you want to call getting sent flying by CP9 undecided, then there pacifista battle is aswell. Kuma sent them all flying.
The battle against the single first Pacifista was no undecided. It was complete. And they were all worn out. Even Luffy who can't be said to have the slightest handicap as did Zoro.
The Strawhats weren't at full power and enthusiasm while still conflicted by Robin's betrayal. They didn't fight anywhere near their full capacity the night of the assassination.
They also still can't beat Iron Body, they just managed to land enough big blows to eventually break through or surprise their various opponents.
And the entire Strawhat crew fought one pacifista, and was completley wiped at the end of it, including Luffy who was totally fresh right before it. Oda went to a fair bit of effort to show off every strawhat landing a blow. If Luffy could deal with one himself, why not just show that?
@robbybedfart:
And the entire Strawhat crew fought one pacifista, and was completley wiped at the end of it, including Luffy who was totally fresh right before it. Oda went to a fair bit of effort to show off every strawhat landing a blow. If Luffy could deal with one himself, why not just show that?
I'm saying things have changed.
I think if we do have a time skip(s), it wont be solely for the purpose of making people stronger. I think it will be to get the crew back together without taking a whole years worth of mangas to do it.
@robbybedfart:
The Strawhats weren't at full power and enthusiasm while still conflicted by Robin's betrayal.
that is the truth! I've talked to a few people, and they said "Luffy's crew is weaker than CP9, then all of a sudden they were stronger". My counter was exactly what you said.
When people hesitate, they will get a smack down.
I am saying that while luffy learned gear second he also developed other skills, he didnt have either gear second or improved senses the first time he fought lucci, he did the second time, just my theory
I chalk "improved senses" up to just getting used to the Rokushiki.
And the fight against Lucci was over far too suddenly with the launching to say if he did or didn't have Gear2.
it's simply too absurd to suggest that Luffy got all that sitting around on a train for at most a few hours. A place where for instance others would have seen him do it and known about it.
This means the same thing as enhanced senses to me and is exactly what im talking about. if he can "get used" to lucci and soru, then he can "get used" to kumabots and haki attacks etc. what you are calling getting used to I am just calling gained experience or training if you will.
The Kumabots simply tanked more damage then most foes, and dished out the same. It was no matter of sneaky techniques and special moves.
I would define "lack of oomph" as pain and exhaustion to a lesser extent….
I mean ability to dish out damage. Those things can hamper it, but nothing suggested it.
Characters only made note of his state of body after he gets hit by a Kuma laser. if Oda had meant to show Zoro dishing out a weak Ashura he would have shown it in some way.
HURRR
I'm not even going to bother with that nonsense.
You use one poor example (Luffy's very instinctual no-sight based grab of Kuro in one single instance) and make it the basis of claiming absolutely anything you want about Luffy's stats.
And then assert some shit about Devil Fruits, completely ignoring Garp among other characters.
@robbybedfart:
The Strawhats weren't at full power and enthusiasm while still conflicted by Robin's betrayal. They didn't fight anywhere near their full capacity the night of the assassination.
They also still can't beat Iron Body, they just managed to land enough big blows to eventually break through or surprise their various opponents.
And the entire Strawhat crew fought one pacifista, and was completley wiped at the end of it, including Luffy who was totally fresh right before it. Oda went to a fair bit of effort to show off every strawhat landing a blow. If Luffy could deal with one himself, why not just show that?
Not really, the people that did destroy Tekkai were Luffy, Sanji [with DJ], Zoro, Franky, and Chopper.
Everyone else obviously couldn't. We don't know Brook, but he's not really the power type.
I don't know how strong the armor is on the Pacifista, but assuming that Luffy can smash them using Gear Third, Sanji can't "damage" through it yet or so… Maybe he was just exhausted though. Zoro wasn't a fair assessment.
So, Franky and Chopper could probably handle the Pacifista in that sense, however, we shouldn't expect the whole crew to just be able to DEFEAT everyone instantly. Gold Roger didn't have a crew full of everyone strong, he had a weaker person like Crocus in his crew, and Buggy.
There's no way that Roger's whole crew would be a match for every strong figure, there's a possibility that Luffy is similar. Which, only the "top tier" would actually have to defeat the strongest people in the world, the "lesser" guys won't have to fight that much.
I still don't see the point when Luffy, Zoro should be on a level pretty close to the "present" that they need to be, they're just lacking experience.
The others, though, may need to work on their abilities, but we don't expect those others to fight the STRONGEST person each and every arc.
I'm not even going to bother with that nonsense.
You use one poor example (Luffy's very instinctual no-sight based grab of Kuro in one single instance) and make it the basis of claiming absolutely anything you want about Luffy's stats.And then assert some shit about Devil Fruits, completely ignoring Garp among other characters.
Well, I have to remove the Devil Fruits because it is what Luffy cannot defeat at the moment. Garp has Haki, which isn't what I'm talking about.
Again, Luffy is probable to be on the stage that is ALREADY near the place he needs to be to become "strong" enough to fight Blackbeard and whoever he needs to. However, he lacks experience.
His whole journey is revolving around the experience factor.
It's the only example I can use, since NO other character was on that speed before CP9 appeared. Enel doesn't even work, he never did anything like that.
Kuro did, and that's the only thing to base it off of. So, the fact is still that Luffy hasn't trained since Garp's training, why would his base magically increase, or even change, when he doesn't put effort into changing it?
I guess I see what your saying about them not actually getting significantly stronger or faster (besides things like gear second of course). If you think about it, Crocodile has been imprisoned, not able to train or improved since Alabasta, but I'm sure he could still fight toe to toe with Luffy.
Mostly what wins fights is largely motivation, just goals, willpower; but also largely knowing your opponent and being able to thing of new tactics quickly and adapt to new enemies. This is why I think zoro and luffy at full strength could each take on a kumabot solo at this point.
I just realized its probably not ok to have a major spoiler in my signature is it?
@JERK:
Gear 3 wasn't even all that great. It comes with a price and was in no way a clincher move against Lucci, who managed to take one and very much stay in the game.
You're overrating what he did with the Gears.
What are you talking about? He's on gears for the majority of the fight.
You guys have very poor memories of all this don't you.
They don't land most of their hits due to Tekkai, which they STILL can't beat with normal blows at EL. Luffy's basic punches are still deflected by even Blueno's tekkai at EL. The one that gets through is Gum Gum Rifle, which as we know is one of his better moves. Which he didn't use at W7.
is that so (this isn't sarcasm I actually was unaware). I never really pay attention to attack names as the fights aren't really my favorite part. I didn't really even notice that. So you are rigth about that.
Lucci still easily dodges most of his attacks as well when he's in normal. And they still dodge all Shigan's, because those suckers are still going to do damage.
Isn't that just more evidence that gears were a necessary power-up?
Not really, the people that did destroy Tekkai were Luffy, Sanji [with DJ], Zoro, Franky, and Chopper.
Everyone else obviously couldn't. We don't know Brook, but he's not really the power type.
I don't know how strong the armor is on the Pacifista, but assuming that Luffy can smash them using Gear Third, Sanji can't "damage" through it yet or so… Maybe he was just exhausted though. Zoro wasn't a fair assessment.
So, Franky and Chopper could probably handle the Pacifista in that sense, however, we shouldn't expect the whole crew to just be able to DEFEAT everyone instantly. Gold Roger didn't have a crew full of everyone strong, he had a weaker person like Crocus in his crew, and Buggy.
where did you get that fact/idea from?
where did you get that fact/idea from?
Crocus was on his ship when he became Pirate King, check Strong World. He was there in the fight against Shiki… Which was just before Roger became PK.
Crocus was on his ship when he became Pirate King, check Strong World. He was there in the fight against Shiki… Which was just before Roger became PK.
I think he means where did you get the idea that crocus was weak…
I think he means where did you get the idea that crocus was weak…
Yeah, that is what i was asking, cheers mate. It is an honest question, because i haven't seen him in action yet or even shown his strength. However when Shikki and his crew came to fight Roger's crew, Crocus was the one telling Buggy and gearing up for action like he don't give a crap about Shikki's crew.
I don't really have a "fact" to prove that he's weaker…
At this moment, I'm being carefree in how I type, so I'm not really specifying that this and that is my opinion and stuff... But, the thing that convinces me that he's not as strong as the pirates on that ship would probably be that he, himself, isn't really a pirate. Sort of how Chapter One had mountain bandits that got smashed by pirates.
Crocus is a doctor, who just was along curing Roger's sickness... Unlike all of the others, he's sort of looked down by Rayleigh when Rayleigh mentions him.
Then, if you want to look at him getting shot by a cannonball and stuff, which was 20 years later, then that's fine. I just don't suspect that Crocus is AS good as the pirates on there. Due to his normal occupation.
Hope you get where I'm coming from... But, I don't have any real support.
Didn't read the whole thread so apologies in advance if this was brought up already.
I think there will be a big time jump, but the only problem to this is the fact that it has to restart with the crew setting sail to FI.
I don't see Oda not taking the SH to FI and skip that island, so if timeskip there is, the SH will be somehow obstructed to go for FI for a long time….
So we won't in fact miss their adventures, cause there won't be any.
I think it's also important to consider that although Luffy presumably only needed the 3 day stay at Long Ring Island to come up with Gear 2nd and 3rd, both techniques are relatively simple in execution and make more use of Luffy's rubber body than training and conditioning. So for those of you who are using the argument of "well Luffy got the gear powerups in a short amount of time so why would he need a timeskip to powerup further?" just remember that Gear 2nd is just Luffy pushing down on his leg to pump his blood faster and Gear 3rd is him biting into his thumb and blowing up his bones with air, all things he could do since acquiring his df without training so long as he thought to try either actions.
On the otherhand what seems to be the obvious next powerup (haki) is some type of spiritual energy that Oda has gone out of his way to illustrate that Luffy isn't even aware that he uses it accidentally, the whole spiritual energy part of it alone screams that it isn't something that Luffy can just figure out instantly in a week when he's been in many perilous situations in which he nearly died and could only release it through yelling. What's more is that I think that the gap in power between the SH and many enemies that they'll fight in the future is greater than what they had to deal with in the past so it would make sense that they'd need more time to get up to snuff.
I think the timeskip already started. But instead of oda saying ´´2 weeks later´´. hes filling it up with a flashback.
I think the timeskip already started. But instead of oda saying ´´2 weeks later´´. hes filling it up with a flashback.
I still feel that after the flashback there will be a dozen or so episodes about the crew members making their way back to Shabondy before luffy actually recovers. It would make sense to me to do this after 20 episodes of virtually no other crew members to switch to only crew members other than Luffy for a while; it feels like we've been set up for that.
Just like I feel like we are being set up for Jimbei joining the crew.
@Robo:
What are you talking about? He's on gears for the majority of the fight.
The two big fight chapters before he finally whips out Gear2.
410 and most of 418. This is where you see normal Luffy fighting Lucci.
Isn't that just more evidence that gears were a necessary power-up?
Necessary in what sense?
Again, Luffy is probable to be on the stage that is ALREADY near the place he needs to be to become "strong" enough to fight Blackbeard and whoever he needs to. However, he lacks experience.
Absolute bullshit.
His whole journey is revolving around the experience factor.
In spite of the fact that the characters constantly refer to strength?
It's the only example I can use, since NO other character was on that speed before CP9 appeared. Enel doesn't even work, he never did anything like that.
It is beyond assumption that characters were gradually faster as the adventure went on.
Kuro did, and that's the only thing to base it off of.
Luffy's stopping of Kuro in that one instance is absolutely nowhere near the same thing as what he does later when he adapts to Soru speed.
So, the fact is still that Luffy hasn't trained since Garp's training, why would his base magically increase, or even change, when he doesn't put effort into changing it?
Training is what? Tell me what it is? And I'll tell you when he's done it.
I don't like the idea of the timeskip because IMO it doesn't fit One Piece. Dragonball was another beast; the characters would train for months or years for the next tournament or in the gap between major crisis or because they knew the next big villain would come in a few years. During each timeskip, they'd grow older, have kids, change their hair or learn some new technique.
In OP, however, we've seen the characters grow slowly each arc, with nothing but a few unspecified days of travel between them. I don't think there will be a timeskip, at least now, because I doubt that Luffy'd stop to train without searching for his nakama first or that other characters that are with Luffy, like Law or Jinbei, will be just there waiting. Of course, they could leave during the timeskip, but I feel that would skip important plot detail.
I feel a "timeskip" is already happening not in the main story, but to the Strawhats. They've been missing for three weeks in-story already. When they return, they'll already had evolved. I don't think there will be a timeskip for Luffy, except for maybe a few days of reckovery.
well i don't think its because of how they train and stuf.
its just a different story. Bleach/naruto/Dragonball and others can have training arcs be super long if they want. and for one reason only, they really aren't moving or going anywhere. They have a home and basically just want to be strong so they train and fight when needed.
one piece they are moving forward always and trying to conquer something, we are on the attack basically and not in DEFEND mode like those 3 are. So we can' tstop and train, but learn on our way. Its more like dragonball earlier where goku got stronger on his adventures, not his training for tournament times.
Goku trained for every single one of those tournaments.
We even saw the first time.
Sammsy strikes again!
In Zoro's defense he is always lifting weights or something when nothing important is going on so in a way he is always training
Zephos, I concede that you were right. Sorry for wasting your time. I had ignored the fact that, as you and robby said, they weren't fighting at full power. I still don't think that they will need a year to power up, but I was definitely wrong about what we were arguing.
they may not need a full year to powerup but they need at least 7 months for the crew to get back together. The crew is scattered all over the world. I for one dont want to since 50 chapters dedicated to luffy waiting with raleigh for crewmates to return one by one.
I wouldnt mind an 6 month to a year timeskip at all. I dont get why people think something earth shattering will be happening in that time. Blackbeard will be trying to gain position. The novas will be entering the new world. The marines and the revolutionaries would be doing the same thing that they have been doing for years now. Fighting.
I think a few months would be great enough coz too much time skip doesn't sound like what Oda sensei would do.
I think a few months would be great enough coz too much time skip doesn't sound like what Oda sensei would do.
Does splitting the whole crew sound like something Oda-sensei would do? ^^
Does Ace's death?
Does Robin's joining the crew?
@Sea:
Does splitting the whole crew sound like something Oda-sensei would do? ^^
…...okay. I second that.
Oda sensei's unpredictable. I just forgot. xD
20 years time skip
