Read Aohiges translation. WB was ready to do something to prevent aces execution when his wounds took him down.
Can you give me a link to his translation.
Read Aohiges translation. WB was ready to do something to prevent aces execution when his wounds took him down.
Can you give me a link to his translation.
Can you give me a link to his translation.
Yes nothing suggests he has a plan right now..otherwise he wouldnt watch like a moron his son being executed.
Maybe he has a plan that takes a little longer to enact than the time it takes to swing a sword down on Ace's neck. Why are you so presumptuous? The fact that the commanders/Jimbei are making a formation at least hints towards there being some kind of strategy.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/569/12-13
You have to take risks in order to achieve your goals. You cant worry about being reckless when your army is being destroyed. He has to take action.
Being reckless and not being level-headed is what makes you a bad leader when commanding such a massive force as Whitebeards.
This could be refered to a plan, but he would most probably rush in.
also i was very dissapointed at the commanders they become so weak without their devil fruit powers ! :shocked:
Well when we see that Hawkins with just one laser beam is in this state :
!
And marco with to laser beam is still able to run (we see that his injuries hasn't been heal)
!
I think it tell us a lot about their difference in power.
It's like luffy with a hole in the chest is in this state :
!
While WB is :
!
Good 16 monkey points, Monkey D ^^
I don't know if this was discussed but does one of the marines fighting Whitebeard look a lot like T-bone.
I don't know if this was discussed but does one of the marines fighting Whitebeard look a lot like T-bone.
It could be him but I´m not sure.
Meh, getting tired seeing Luffy using that same hormone doping and hax haki attack in critical moments… move forward already.
Meh, getting tired seeing Luffy using that same hormone doping and hax haki attack in critical moments… move forward already.
He's trying, if you're paying attention. Everytime he gets close the fastest guy in One Piece kicks him a mile away.
@Fire Fist:
He's trying, if you're paying attention. Everytime he gets close the fastest guy in One Piece kicks him a mile away.
Two steps forward, one kick back.
Moria, what the hell are you doing?
Go attack that weak Whitebeard!
@Fire Fist:
He's trying, if you're paying attention. Everytime he gets close the fastest guy in One Piece kicks him a mile away.
Yeah Luffy is trying, I dont say that he does not. Kizaru is meanie, but he is sure admiral.
Stongest man alive should be able to beat one admiral even if he is stabbed. This is the greatest battle of his life…and he cant pass through an admiral. Why the fuck is he saying "There is a chance to win this" when he cant even beat 1 of the strongest 5 people in the battlefield.
One Piece characters are not like Bleach and Dragonball characters where they can just casually shrugg off attacks and keep fighting like nothing happened. They aren't supernatural and this has been established from the start of the series.
I get where you are coming from, I shake my head too at most of the events but it's just that our expectations are too high for Whitebeard. Yes, being the strongest you expect something different from him but at the end of the day he is only a man; human. Whitebeard doesn't have the logia devil fruit that allows attacks to phase through him nor does he have a special technique like Tekkai to aid durability.
Besides, the so called top tiers aren't really that much stronger than everybody else, it's a very small gap. Seeing as how Haki will allow Luffy to rampage in this war and be able to fight on par with everyone in this war.
One Piece characters are not like Bleach and Dragonball characters where they can just casually shrugg off attacks and keep fighting like nothing happened. They aren't supernatural and this has been established from the start of the series.
I get where you are coming from, I shake my head too at most of the events but it's just that our expectations are too high for Whitebeard. Yes, being the strongest you expect something different from him but at the end of the day he is only a man; human. Whitebeard doesn't have the logia devil fruit that allows attacks to phase through him nor does he have a special technique like Tekkai to aid durability.
Besides, the so called top tiers aren't really that much stronger than everybody else, it's a very small gap. Seeing as how Haki will allow Luffy to rampage in this war and be able to fight on par with everyone in this war.
**I don't know where you got that from, but no.
Unless he get a Nightmare Luffy like power up in the next few chapters, he's going to remain fodder the top-tiers and most of the higher tiers. A little bit of haki isn't going to change that.**
I meant if Luffy knows how to use his King's Haki right now in this scuffle it's a garauntee he is gonna be smacking some so called top tier people around.
I meant if Luffy knows how to use his King's Haki right now i nthis scuffle it's a garauntee he is gonna be smacking some so called top tier people around cause that's just the way it is.
**No it's not a guarantee and that's not how it is.
Doesn't matter whether or not Luffy automatically learns how to use his haki, he's still going to be fodder to the Admirals and everyone else who matters. Like you said before, this is not Bleach.**
There it goes again… The ultimative tier list argumentation full of bias and personal opinions.
I have one resolution for 2010: "not overuse the word fodder".
No it's not a guarantee and that's not how it is.
Doesn't matter whether or not Luffy automatically learns how to use his haki, he's still going to be fodder to the Admirals and everyone else who matters. Like you said before, this is not Bleach.
That's right cause this is shounen jump and Luffy getting power-ups and lucky breaks all through the series to make it here and still not have been TKO'd in this so called war of top-tiers is how it's been and going to be. It's just how jump rolls, one piece is no different.
I hope you are right that Luffy doesn't start fighting on par with Admirals if he knows how to use his Haki. It seems it's gonna close the gap in this war cause these so called top tiers aren't that much stronger than him.
There it goes again… The ultimative tier list argumentation full of bias and personal opinions.
Its the 1st time I agree with you.
I hope Luffy breaks kizaru's balls and makes him feel some pain, cause his jackassery of tossing luffy around is getting old. I'd love to see that smug look get off his face
I hope Luffy breaks kizaru's balls and makes him feel some pain, cause his jackassery of tossing luffy around is getting old. I'd love to see that smug look get off his face
I agree that either Luffy or a supernova needs to get a few good moves in on Kizaru, but not anytime too soon, later down the road. Either that or Blackbeard gets a nice hit on him during a cliche Light vs Dark mini-fight in the chaos of the war.
There it goes again… The ultimative tier list argumentation full of bias and personal opinions.
I have one resolution for 2010: "not overuse the word fodder".
**OH NO THIS GUY MENTIOEND TIERS!!111!
Some people are stronger than other people, tiers are a huge part of EVERY fighting manga. Get over it.**
That's right cause this is shounen jump and Luffy getting power-ups and lucky breaks all through the series to make it here and still not have been TKO'd in this so called war of top-tiers is how it's been and going to be. It's just how jump rolls, one piece is no different.
So your reason is that it's gonna happen because OP is a shounen? Even though nothing of the sort has EVER happened in OP before? It's been 569 chapters, you should know Oda's style well enough by now.
I hope you are right that Luffy doesn't start fighting on par with Admirals if he knows how to use his Haki. It seems it's gonna close the gap in this war cause these so called top tiers aren't that much stronger than him.
**They are that much stronger than him, in every single possible way. That's the point, they are infinitely faster, stronger, smarter, more durable etc than current Luffy. A little bit of haki is not going change that in the least. Don't know how you propose Luffy get a complete grasp of his haki within a few minutes anyway, it doesn't make sense.
Plus the Admirals have to be able to fight people like Whitebeard, shanks and Rayleigh. Who not only have mastery of haki, but are all around better fighters than Luffy.**
I hope Luffy breaks kizaru's balls and makes him feel some pain, cause his jackassery of tossing luffy around is getting old. I'd love to see that smug look get off his face
Noooooooooooooooooooo.
I agree that either Luffy or a supernova needs to get a few good moves in on Kizaru, but not anytime too soon, later down the road. Either that or Blackbeard gets a nice hit on him during a cliche Light vs Dark mini-fight in the chaos of the war.
No.
Moria, what the hell are you doing?
Go attack that weak Whitebeard!
i know he could have been using tsuno tokage or use doppelman but hes busy getting owned
Luffy getting a punch or 2 on a admiral right now is not big deal he will still get his ass kick. I mean akoiji took and hit from both jozu and marco and got up like nothing .
As much as i don't like there marines , it seems people are putting down the admirals to much . The admirals are the 3 strongest guys in group that has over 150 plus counties and thousands of men. Any body that thought Wb would walk over them with homebase advantage would have to be kidding there self.
Luffy getting a punch or 2 on a admiral right now is not big deal he will still get his ass kick. I mean akoiji took and hit from both jozu and marco and got up like nothing .
Maybe I need to re-read some of the recent chapters but I don't remember Marco getting a hit on Aokiji. I know he hit Kizaru, and Joz hit Aokiji. Which chapter was this?
**OH NO THIS GUY MENTIOEND TIERS!!111!
Some people are stronger than other people, tiers are a huge part of EVERY fighting manga. Get over it.**
As i said the tier list argumentation as well as the who is stronger than who and how much plus the shichibukai strength argumentations are dead before they even begun. I mean you just proved it with:
So your reason is that it's gonna happen because OP is a shounen? Even though nothing of the sort has EVER happened in OP before? It's been 569 chapters, you should know Oda's style well enough by now.
**They are that much stronger than him, in every single possible way. That's the point, they are infinitely faster, stronger, smarter, more durable etc than current Luffy. A little bit of haki is not going change that in the least. Don't know how you propose Luffy get a complete grasp of his haki within a few minutes anyway, it doesn't make sense.
Plus the Admirals have to be able to fight people like Whitebeard, shanks and Rayleigh. Who not only have mastery of haki, but are all around better fighters than Luffy.**
I get what you are saying but you pull a lot of things out of your ass like:
the admirals are infinitely stronger than luffy blablabla.
I can argue with you that having mastery of "ambition" would make luffy able to use mantra, tekkai, infuse "ambition" in his attacks, making them faster/stronger or making him able to hit logias. That's assuming the speculation about haki is valid. So if we hypothetically think that the kings disposition works that way you would still argue to death with me that the admirals would be superior.
And we will go on and on writing books about our speculations and beliefs filling the next 10 pages and at the end we will still be in the starting blocks.
Luffy mastering haki will never happen during this war that's for sure. Just wanted to clear that.
Maybe I need to re-read some of the recent chapters but I don't remember Marco getting a hit on Aokiji. I know he hit Kizaru, and Joz hit Aokiji. Which chapter was this?
As i said the tier list argumentation as well as the who is stronger than who and how much plus the shichibukai strength argumentations are dead before they even begun. I mean you just proved it with:
This is a major problem around here. People see the word tier and run away screaming, it's stupid really. It's beyond stupid actually, this is a FIGHTING manga. Tiers are going to be a part of it no matter what.
I get what you are saying but you pull a lot of things out of your ass like:
the admirals are infinitely stronger than luffy blablabla.
**I didn't pull anything out of my ass, the Admirals are better than Luffy in ever single aspect of fighting. The ARE stronger, faster, more durable etc. Just think about it, it's common sense really. These guys have to be able to fight monsters like Whitebeard, Shanks Rayleigh and others who not only have complete mastery of haki, but are just all around better fighters than Luffy. Unless you honestly think the only difference between Luffy and Rayleigh is that Rayleigh can use haki. Which is stupid.
Look at Aokiji taking Joz's elbow like it was nothing.
Look at Kizaru taking a kick from Marco which created an explosion large enough to encompass 4 battleships
Look at Kizaru fighting Rayleigh, who is better than Luffy in everyday and can actually harm Kizaru.
Look at Aokiji avoiding a haki thrust by Whitebeard.
etc**
I can argue with you that having mastery of "ambition" would make luffy able to use mantra tekkai, infuse "ambition" in his attacks making them faster/stronger, making him able to hit logias. That's assuming the speculation about haki is valid. So if we hypothetically think that the kings disposition works that way you would still argue to death with me that the admirals would be superior.
And we will go on and on writing books about our speculations and beliefs filling the next 10 pages and at the end we will still be in the starting blocks.
**What does mastery of haki have to do with tekkai? At all?
The Admirals, and top-tiers in general, are so much better than Luffy in everything that even IF he gained mastery of his haki right on the spot nothing is going to change. Mantra isn't gonna help him, he isn't fast enough. Strengthening attacks isn't gonna help him, the top-tiers have to be able to take attacks from other top-tiers who makes a gigant pistol look like shit. Being able to hit logia isn't gonna help him, the Admirals are no strangers to people that can actually harm them.** I don't care if Luffy mastered his haki on the spot and gained a 5X boost in everything else, he'd still get destroyed by the top-tiers. That's just how strong they are. Hence Luffy being called an ant, it's more than just the Admirals. There are hundreds of people in this war who aren't logias and would eat Luffy alive. He is weak.
I didn't pull anything out of my ass, the Admirals are better than Luffy in ever single aspect of fighting. The ARE stronger, faster, more durable etc. Just think about it, it's common sense really. These guys have to be able to fight monsters like Whitebeard, Shanks Rayleigh and others who not only have complete mastery of haki, but are just all around better fighters than Luffy. Unless you honestly think the only difference between Luffy and Rayleigh is that Rayleigh can use haki. Which is stupid.
I agree that the admirals are stronger than Luffy at the moment. I don't really feel it's a very debatable topic. However, I don't think you can accurately say they're better in EVERY aspect. For example, produce some evidence that Aokiji and Akainu are faster than Luffy, which you just claimed to be true.
I agree that the admirals are stronger than Luffy at the moment. I don't really feel it's a very debatable topic. However, I don't think you can accurately say they're better in EVERY aspect. For example, produce some evidence that Aokiji and Akainu are faster than Luffy, which you just claimed to be true.
**Look at Kizaru, he's easily the fastest guy in OP to date. He casually blitzes a G2 Luffy like it's nothing. Now, do you honestly think Kizaru can just speedblitz a top-tier? Do you see him blitzing Shanks, Whitebeard, Rayleigh, Marco etc? Yeah, me neither. In fact, we know he can't. People like Akainu and Aokiji have to be able to fight people faster than Luffy.
Luffy is very weak compared to a lot of people in the world, he's only exceptional because he is strong from a rookie. He's a 17 year old boy who has been sailing the seas for less than a year in total. Oda has established time and time again just how weak he is compared to the top-tiers, not just the Admirals. You're kidding yourself if you think Luffy is anywhere near the fastest guy in the manga.
Really, the Admirals being faster than Luffy is common sense.**
So your reason is that it's gonna happen because OP is a shounen? Even though nothing of the sort has EVER happened in OP before? It's been 569 chapters, you should know Oda's style well enough by now.
Yeah, I know Oda's style and it's no different from other Jump series. Luffy can get pwned and then come back with a power-up and be able to beat up Lucci, a guy who pwned him chapters before.
They are that much stronger than him, in every single possible way. That's the point, they are infinitely faster, stronger, smarter, more durable etc than current Luffy. A little bit of haki is not going change that in the least. Don't know how you propose Luffy get a complete grasp of his haki within a few minutes anyway, it doesn't make sense.
Plus the Admirals have to be able to fight people like Whitebeard, shanks and Rayleigh. Who not only have mastery of haki, but are all around better fighters than Luffy.
Luffy just doesn't have any Haki he has the Kings Haki. Something that is obviously going to make him incredibly stronger than what he is now to compete with high tier opponents just like every other main character in jump gets. King's haki, is something that he has done more than once and it wouldn't be just a few minutes for him to grasp that, it would have been entire arcs cause it's his third or fourth time using it.
I'm sorry, from what I've seen the so called top tiers are not that much stronger than Luffy. If that was the case Luffy should have been stopped by a Mihawk who stated himself that he wasn't going to show any mercy towards Luffy and yet Luffy still was able to dodge his attacks and survive. Luffy can't touch the Admirals only because they are logia's and as we seen haki could bridge that gap. They aren't that much physically better than Luffy it is their special abilities that make up the difference in this world and Luffy's Haki would help him match up with those special devil fruit types.
There's no definitive proof that Akainu or Aokiji are faster or that any of the 3 possess more raw physical strength than Luffy. Those guys (kiji and Akainu) utilize mass effect, destructive dfs so you can't even argue how much they need speed. Although I would like to believe that the Admirals and others were all around better warriors.
This is a major problem around here. People see the word tier and run away screaming, it's stupid really. It's beyond stupid actually, this is a FIGHTING manga. Tiers are going to be a part of it no matter what.
If you enjoy making things up i'm not going to stop you. Seems common from where you come…
I didn't pull anything out of my ass, the Admirals are better than Luffy in ever single aspect of fighting. The ARE stronger, faster, more durable etc. Just think about it, it's common sense really. These guys have to be able to fight monsters like Whitebeard, Shanks Rayleigh and others who not only have complete mastery of haki, but are just all around better fighters than Luffy. Unless you honestly think the only difference between Luffy and Rayleigh is that Rayleigh can use haki. Which is stupid.
Well i expect them to have faster reflexes than luffy but which move they know that makes them in raw fighting aspect stronger is a mystery. They don't really show fighting move (putting aside "ambition" and their logia fighting skills) that luffy can't though…
What does mastery of haki have to do with tekkai? At all?
What marigold used to block luffys foot attack at amazon lily seems to be the same as tekkai. It's not that far fetched.
The Admirals, and top-tiers in general, are so much better than Luffy in everything that even IF he gained mastery of his haki right on the spot nothing is going to change.
So right before discussing tthe influence of "ambition" you disregard how much impact it might have. Right? Well let's see…
Mantra isn't gonna help him, he isn't fast enough. Strenghing attacks isn't gonna help him,
There we go… The same pattern again. Mantra helps him to read moves like enel. Luffy has gear second so he might after learning mantra be able to dodge kizaru if he is able to reads kizarus move before he makes them. Strengthing attacks would helps him fight guys who are able to take his standard attacks without moving (like aokiji)
the top-tiers have to be able to take attacks from other top-tiers who makes a gigant pistol look like shit.
You have a point here but what about a gigant pistol infused with that mysterious power making it an explosive one (reference to the "ambition" infused arrows) thus making it x times more destructive than luffys current one?
Being able to hit logia isn't gonna help him, the Admirals are no stronger to people that can actually harm them.
Oh but i thought that kizaru, aokiji and akainu transformed into their elements when they took that frozen pillar. Why argue that being able to hit them isn't good if you know that not being able to do it is even worse?
I don't care if Luffy mastered his haki on the spot and gained a 5X boost in everything else, he's still get destroyed by the top-tiers. That's just how strong they are.
I challenge you to back this statement up. Admirals are strong fighters. Have a lot of strength. Are fast in changing into their elements being even able to dodge "ambition" attacks like kuzan. But would someone be destroyed by admirals if he has aspects that would help against all those things that make the admirals a dead weapon? I repeat you used the word "destroy".
Hence Luffy being called an ant, it's more than just the Admirals. There are hundreds of people in this war who aren't logias and would eat Luffy alive. He is weak.
I've never argued that luffy isn't actually weak compared to the top fighters of the world. But seeing how much he stresses his body right now with the gear techniques it wouldn't be far fetched to assume that speaking of raw strength or basic fighting skills luffy won't improve that much since he seems to be at his limit. It's a manga soo everything can happen and i'm well aware that with any fight luffys reflexes become better and better. It still seems to me that his raw strength didn't increase dramatically since he entered the grand line.
Look at Kizaru, he's easily the fastest guy in OP to date. He casually blitzes a G2 Luffy like it's nothing. Now, do you honestly think Kizaru can just speedblitz a top-tier? Do you see him blitzing Shanks, Whitebeard, Rayleigh, Marco etc? Yeah, me neither.
Ha! Kizaru did send beams towards wb and marco. We haven't seen him fighting shanks or rayleigh. But it's an attack he uses quite a lot so why not against those top fighters? Just because we didn't see him doing it doesn't mean he doesn't or can't!
In fact, we know he can't.
You made that up again! You've seen aokiji still using partisan on WB so what's your point? hm?
People like Akainu and Aokiji have to be able to fight people faster than Luffy.
Right now luffy can't fight them. Everyone knows that.
Maybe WB says something that's a bit cryptic and open to interpretation? Because binktopia's release is out and there it is translated as "it is useless.. even I could move.. guh"
There's no open space for discussion, seriously.
He LITERALLY says "You think I can't stop you?".
I don't know why so many translators (more than one, I assume) are getting it wrong, because it's plainly written and stated.
Yeah, I know his style, Luffy can get a power-up and be able to beat up Lucci, a guy who pwned him chapters before.
It has already been explained that the SHs lost against CP9 at the mansion because they were unfocused, not because they magically got ten times stronger. No magical shounen power-up here.
Luffy just doesn't have any Haki he has the Kings Haki. Something that is obviously going to make him incredibly stronger than what he is now to compete with high tier opponents just like every other main character in jump gets. King's haki, is something that he has done more than once and it wouldn't be just a few minutes for him to grasp that, it would have been entire arcs cause it's his third time using it.
**It doesn't matter whether or not he has the King's Haki, the top-tiers are still light years above him. Will it be a great asset to him? Yes, of course. But the King's Haki alone is just not enough, he has to become all around better in every aspect of fighting, including haki, before he can tango with the Admirals. That's not gonna happen until he reaches the end part of the GL.
The very fact that the Admirals have to be able to fight people who have mastery of the King's Haki (Shanks, Rayleigh and probably WB) is proof of what I'm saying.**
I'm sorry, from what I've seen the so called top tiers are not that much stronger than Luffy. If that was the case Luffy should have been stopped by a Mihawk who stated himself that he wasn't going to show any mercy towards Luffy and yet Luffy still was able to dodge his attacks and survive. Luffy can't touch the Admirals only because they are logia's and as we seen haki could bridge that gap. They aren't that much physically better than Luffy it is their special abilities that make up the difference in this world and Luffy's Haki would help him match up with those special devil fruit types.
**Well then, you haven't been reading the manga right. Mihawk wasn't even trying against Luffy, that's obvious. He wasn't taking Luffy serious in the least, and yet Luffy couldn't do a single thing to him. He showed us the incredible difference in power between them (casually cutting the iceburg) and that he could casually tag a G2 Luffy without hitting a single person in the way.Again, has Luffy ever shown power on the level of the top-tiers? Speed? Durability? Endurance? No, he hasn't. No even once. Like I said before, the Admirals have to be able to fight people much much stronger than Luffy that can actually harm them. It doesn't make sense for Luffy to magically be on their level just because he learned how to use haki, when there are a bunch of other people out there stronger than Luffy and that have mastered haki but still have a hard time against the admirals.**
There's no open space for discussion, seriously.
He LITERALLY says "You think I can't stop you?".
I don't know why so many translators (more than one, I assume) are getting it wrong, because it's plainly written and stated.
Maybe they all made crap trans from the cam raw and just used those for the one that was able to be scanlated, without proofreading the clearer raw? Who knows.
There's no open space for discussion, seriously.
He LITERALLY says "You think I can't stop you?".
I don't know why so many translators (more than one, I assume) are getting it wrong, because it's plainly written and stated.
Sigh, we need someone like Stephen. I was looking over too MS, One Piece thread and it was filled with conclusions made from faulty translations.
**Look at Kizaru, he's easily the fastest guy in OP to date. He casually blitzes a G2 Luffy like it's nothing. Now, do you honestly think Kizaru can just speedblitz a top-tier? Do you see him blitzing Shanks, Whitebeard, Rayleigh, Marco etc? Yeah, me neither. In fact, we know he can't. People like Akainu and Aokiji have to be able to fight people faster than Luffy.
Luffy is very weak compared to a lot of people in the world, he's only exceptional because he is strong from a rookie. He's a 17 year old boy who has been sailing the seas for less than a year in total. Oda has established time and time again just how weak he is compared to the top-tiers, not just the Admirals. You're kidding yourself if you think Luffy is anywhere near the fastest guy in the manga.
Really, the Admirals being faster than Luffy is common sense.**
I asked for evidence that Aokiji and Akainu are faster than Luffy, and you give me Kizaru. I think it's clear which of us isn't using common sense.
I agree that the admirals are stronger than Luffy at the moment. I don't really feel it's a very debatable topic. However, I don't think you can accurately say they're better in EVERY aspect. For example, produce some evidence that Aokiji and Akainu are faster than Luffy, which you just claimed to be true.
Aokiji has actually done some teleportation move a few times. First he somehow appears hundreds of feet into the air and freezes the Tsnumis, then he moves quickly to freeze buggy, then again he moves from Ace's platform to where Kizaru kicked Luffy hundreds of yards away. Even if he can't move that way indefinitely it seems Aokiji can move faster than Luffy at times.
Akainu doesn't have to be faster. All you need are reflexes and excellent perception to face people faster than you. That is how Zoro and Sanji fought Jyabura&Kaku, and one of the more important things that separate them from Franky. All these top tiers have better perceptive abilities than Luffy. Most people can't even seen Luffy moving in Gear 2nd, yet Jinbei caught him in ID before he attacked Teach again.
Hey yo captain. Bored from NF? hrhrhrhr!
Aokiji has actually done some teleportation move a few times. First he somehow appears hundreds of feet into the air and freezes the Tsnumis, then he moves quickly to freeze buggy, then again he moves from Ace's platform to where Kizaru kicked Luffy hundreds of yards away. Even if he can't move that way indefinitely it seems Aokiji can move faster than Luffy at times.
Akainu doesn't have to be faster. All you need are reflexes and excellent perception to face people faster than you. That is how Zoro and Sanji fought Jyabura&Kaku, and one of the more important things that seperate them from Franky.
I remember that teleportation thing, but it's not like we have anything from which to compare it to G2.
Aokiji can probably move fast. He can freeze the water in the air and move in it. Wait, does note make sense, why would he need a bike then ?
If you enjoy making things up i'm not going to stop you. Seems common from where you come…
I'm not making anything up.
Well i expect them to have faster reflexes than luffy but which move they know that makes them in raw fighting aspect stronger is a mystery. They don't really show fighting move (putting aside "ambition" and their logia fighting skills) that luffy can't though…
**Oda, just like almost every other mangaka on the face of the planet, is not going to show us the full capabilities of the top-tiers until the characters themselves near that level of ability. If you haven't noticed, we've seen nothing but casual moves from the all the top-tiers. Nothing but a glimpse of their true power, and it's still more than what Luffy can manage. Mihawk casually cutting the giant wave, Whitebeard destroying both of the waves casually while injured, Joz picking up and throwing something Luffy can't budge, Mihawk casually tagging G2 Luffy etc are all things Luffy himself is nowhere near capable of yet.
And there isn't a specific move that makes the Admirals better, they are just better.**
What marigold used to block luffys foot attack at amazon lily seems to be the same as tekkai. It's not that far fetched.
And you say I'm the one making things up. If tekkai was a haki oriented move, it wouldn't be a part of the Marine secret art since anyone who has use haki could learn it. If it is a haki thing, why has no one in this way displayed it? Unlike mantra, you can clearly see if it's being used.
So right before discussing tthe influence of "ambition" you disregard how much impact it might have. Right? Well let's see…
Anyone who thinks haki alone is going to be anywhere near enough for Luffy to tango with the Admirals seriously needs to re-read OP.
There we go… The same pattern again. Mantra helps him to read moves like enel. Luffy has gear second so he might after learning mantra be able to dodge kizaru if he is able to reads kizarus move before he makes them. Strengthing attacks would helps him fight guys who are able to take his standard attacks without moving (like aokiji)
Do you honestly think Luffy is anywhere near as fast as the top-tiers? We know top-tiers react to Kizaru like it's nothing. The same Kizaru that casually blitzes G2 Luffy. We already saw with Enel and at Amazon Lily that even Mantra is useless if you can't keep up with your opponent and Luffy cannot keep up with people who keep up with Kizaru. No way in hell. Strengthening attacks isn't going to help because the Admirals have to be able to take attacks much much stronger than anything Luffy can dish out. See Kizaru easily tanking a kick from Marco that puts gigant pistol to shame or Aokiji tanking an attack from Joz (while off guard).
You have a point here but what about a gigant pistol infused with that mysterious power making it an explosive one (reference to the "ambition" infused arrows) thus making it x times more destructive than luffys current one?
It still probably wouldn't be enough. Remember, we've sen nothing bus casual attack from the top-tiers, and even most of them put a G3 pistol to shame. So yeah, Luffy could use a G3 pistol with haki and make it super strong, but the top-tiers should be able to power-up attacks with haki AND it seems their casual attack > G3 pistol for the most part.
Oh but i thought that kizaru, aokiji and akainu transformed into their elements when they took that frozen pillar. Why argue that being able to hit them isn't good if you know that not being able to do it is even worse?
They chose to take the pillar with their DFs because it's convenient, it does not mean that they were unable to do it. Remember, the Admirals have to be able to take on people stronger than Luffy that can hit them. So yeah, it's definitely better to be able to hit them, but that alone is not going to be anywhere near enough for Luffy. He has to get better in all specs of fighting, which will with time.
I challenge you to back this statement up. Admirals are strong fighters. Have a lot of strength. Are fast in changing into their elements being even able to dodge "ambition" attacks like kuzan. But would someone be destroyed by admirals if he has aspects that would help against all those things that make the admirals a dead weapon? I repeat you used the word "destroy".
Look at Squardo, a man strong enough to be put in charge of WB's fleet. He himself admitted that he's nothing compared to WB. Look at the VAs, all of which who would probably give Luffy a very hard fight at the least. They are flies to WB, even injured and sick as he is.
I've never argued that luffy isn't actually weak compared to the top fighters of the world. But seeing how much he stresses his body right now with the gear techniques it wouldn't be far fetched to assume that speaking of raw strength or basic fighting skills luffy won't improve that much since he seems to be at his limit. It's a manga soo everything can happen and i'm well aware that with any fight luffys reflexes become better and better. It still seems to me that his raw strength didn't increase dramatically since he entered the grand line.
I know, I was just making a point. Luffy will get stronger, faster, smarter, more durable etc. He'll become better over all, but that takes times. The gears are taking their toll on him right now, but eventually he will become strong enough to withstand all their effects with ease.
who said he needs it? Why not riding it for the fun and because he can? (which is funny)
I asked for evidence that Aokiji and Akainu are faster than Luffy, and you give me Kizaru. I think it's clear which of us isn't using common sense.
**I used Kizaru to prove Aokiji and Akainu are both faster than Luffy, or at the very lest, they have far superior reaction speeds.
Unless you honestly think Aokiji and Akainu would get speed blitzed by Kizaru. Please tell me you don't think that.**
I don't think you can say they have faster reaction speeds. That's an entirely different issue than actual speed itself.
Kizaru is faster than Luffy, but we have seen no evidence of the other two being faster. Sturdier and stronger? Sure. But faster? Not so much. Saying who's faster is mere speculation at this point.
**No it's not. Marco and Rayleigh have both shown the abilt to react and attack Kizaru. Meaning they are fast enough to react to his moves AND they are fast enough to hit a lightman.
Unless you think those two are the exceptions, it's obvious all top-tiers are faster than Luffy.**