Has Obama done something world-changing already?? Its not like I'm not interested in world politics, but I haven't heard much of his activities yet…
anyways, a prize for peace... is... indeed stupid.
Has Obama done something world-changing already?? Its not like I'm not interested in world politics, but I haven't heard much of his activities yet…
anyways, a prize for peace... is... indeed stupid.
Has Obama done something world-changing already?? Its not like I'm not interested in world politics, but I haven't heard much of his activities yet…
he's planning to reform America's health system, which apparently makes him like Hitler if we're to believe stupid aka conservative people.
he's planning to reform America's health system, which apparently makes him like Hitler if we're to believe stupid aka conservative people.
QFT. They should all be round up and made to think the only right way like us is what I think.
Greg's been posting like a scorned biddy for so long I forgot about his original passion of aggressive retarded neutrality.
The problem with universal health care is that it drops the quality of health care across the board. People wonder why it gets compared to borderline socialism when it all comes back to everybody gets the same benefits for different amounts of work. And even if he does find and pass a health care system that gives everybody a chance to go to the hospital and keeps the quality up I'd be all for it, but even then, I don't think he'd deserve a NBPP because there are plenty of other countries with Universal Health Care and it doesn't contribute to peace. It's not like we're on the verge of Civil War over the subject.
The problem with universal health care is that it drops the quality of health care across the board.
So your one of the idiots who doens't comprehend the idea of a government public option coexisting with private ones.
Or you live in a fantasy world where the US Postal Service ground Fed Ex and UPS into dust ages ago.
How about this, I live in a state with the best hospitals in the nation, and we just passed a public option. When Yale Hospital goes under I'll be sure to give you a call.
People wonder why it gets compared to borderline socialism
It is socialism.
So what.
There's no society on earth that doesn't have aspects of socialism, or for that matter capitalism. Up to and including the five remaining "communist" countries.
when it all comes back to everybody gets the same benefits for different amounts of work.
Alright, so you just don't even know what the plan at all is or what other countries health care systems are, or hell judging by the "borderline socialism" comment I'm gonna venture saying that you don't really understand any of the things being discussed.
Fancy that.
And I like how you actually buy into it being a matter of hard work.
If my mom lost her job, we would have lost their health plan, and my dad would be dead or we would be bankrupt, or both of course could be an option.
Good thing she "worked hard", because that's exactly what it comes down to, especially in these economic times doesn't it.
I don't think he'd deserve a NBPP because there are plenty of other countries with Universal Health Care and it doesn't contribute to peace.
It contributes to them not having loads of poor people dying just because they can't afford to sell the house every time they get sick.
Or middle class people who lose jobs and so forth.
(Let this thread die.. a breeding ground for trolls)
Found some good articles criticizing the decision
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/10/09/obama/index.html
http://openleft.com/diary/15465/obamas-peace-prize-pro-and-con
And some why he deserved the Nobel.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/09/clemons.obama.peace.world/
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_10/020349.php
@Karate:
So your one of the idiots who doesn't comprehend the idea of a government public option coexisting with private ones.
No, I realize the public option, but you have to get the doctors from somewhere. So there'll be more people going in just because their pussies hurt, and granted serious problems will be caught but 90% of the people who go in won't have anything wrong with them. That'll cause even longer waits for people who have even more serious problems. The waits in some countries with universal health care can be ludicruos for necessary procedures.
Of course everything also has a little bit of socialism in it, it's in humanity's nature to try to help out the less fortunate in some way or another, I was just saying that this is one of the policies that is a bit more extreme to that form of government then most. I didn't mean to imply that everyone who supports the bill is socialist, I just thought it was stupid to call everyone who didn't agree with a policy an idiot. I knew I'd get somebody to start flaming me for that post, I just don't like the 'lol they're stupid' comments, that come up from time to time.
Also, I just meant the general overview of socialism with the working different amounts comment. There will always be people getting screwed over and being put into a bad situation in all governments and all places.
Also it is a problem with people and health care, but it isn't at a National disaster type level, that's why I don't think just his reforms going through would make him worthy of the award. Maybe nuclear disarmament if he pulled that off, but not this.
Edit- Like I said, I just posted about that because of his comment about the other side being idiots, so I won't continue the argument, you can call it a victory for yourself. I realize being a Republican on the internet will get me flamed a lot, so I'm used to it ;p
No, I realize the public option, but you have to get the doctors from somewhere.
Do you think Doctors work for insurance companies?
They work for the individual hospital in question.
So there'll be more people going in just because their pussies hurt, and granted serious problems will be caught but 90% of the people who go in won't have anything wrong with them.
People can do this now, what's your point.
That'll cause even longer waits for people who have even more serious problems. The waits in some countries with universal health care can be ludicruos for necessary procedures.
Really? How about citing this and the country in question.
Because every single other non-third world country has some variation thereof, with all sorts of different ways it works.
Of course everything also has a little bit of socialism in it, it's in humanity's nature to try to help out the less fortunate in some way or another, I was just saying that this is one of the policies that is a bit more extreme to that form of government then most.
No it fucking isn't.
It's standard first world democracy fair.
Every other country in the first world has it.
From the social democracies of Sweden that you probably think of when you shudder at night about left wing land, to the capitalist super utopias like Singapore.
They all have it.
This isn't extreme.
Extreme Socialism is State Communism, are you suggesting the United Kingdom is Communist? Germany? Japan? Canada?
When the state seizes the means of production and dissallows private property then you can talk about extreme, not basic modern society shit like this.
Edit- Like I said, I just posted about that because of his comment about the other side being idiots, so I won't continue the argument, you can call it a victory for yourself. I realize being a Republican on the internet will get me flamed a lot, so I'm used to it ;p
Yeah this is totally about what party line your on, I would never flame someone otherwise.
@Karate:
Yeah this is totally about what party line your on, I would never flame someone otherwise.
That was more to the person saying conservative idiots.
Those old enough to remember Watergate might recall that it took Johnny Carson awhile to start making jokes about President Richard Nixon and his connection to the break-in. But once the Tonight show host did, it felt like the beginning of the end for the U.S. leader who eventually resigned.
That's it guys. Leno cracked a joke about Obama, it's over. Let's just try to make it through the next 3 years somehow.
An article about jokes being made about our President ladies and gentlemen.
edit: News that counts.
Nixon's career ended not because of the Watergate scandal as commonly thought, but because it was riffed at.
QFT. They should all be round up and made to think the only right way like us is what I think.
well yeah, if theyre comparing Barry to a fascist, right-wing, nationalist-socialist dictator they need to have their faces submerged in Rush Limbaughs ass for a few days as punishment
You guys are weird. Acknowledging people who has had positive impact on peace - be it anywhere between very local, one time deals to very universal impact - is an awesome thing.
@Sesshy:
The waits in some countries with universal health care can be ludicruos for necessary procedures.
True enough -_-. Not saying I don't like universal health care (hey, I ain't a barbarian) but, darn, those your waits can get pretty ludicrous. Then again perhaps Finland isn't the best example of most flawlessly working health care system.
Hahahah! Now that's gold right there. Solid gold.
surfjan, that is fucking gold. Turning Palin into a robot that destroys the world? Where do they come up with that? COMIC-GENIUS.
Here's one of my favorites.
See it's funny because if you notice the flames, it suggests they're in H-E-double hockey sticks! And if you search deeper, they're there because on their way to an affair when he was f'ing wasted, he drove them off a bridge and she died and he left the scene of the accident. HAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAahaaAHAHA!!! It's so funny 'cause it's true.
On the other hand, I wasn't a big fan of the creator's second work. It seemed so uninspired. It was just Laura Bush and Michael Douglas' face pasted over them. They didn't even bother to change 'Mary'.
well yeah, if theyre comparing Barry to a fascist, right-wing, nationalist-socialist dictator they need to have their faces submerged in Rush Limbaughs ass for a few days as punishment
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You guys are weird. Acknowledging people who has had positive impact on peace - be it anywhere between very local, one time deals to very universal impact - is an awesome thing.
True enough -_-. Not saying I don't like universal health care (hey, I ain't a barbarian) but, darn, those your waits can get pretty ludicrous. Then again perhaps Finland isn't the best example of most flawlessly working health care system.
If you have the money, anyone in Europe can go to a private clinic. The ones that don't, will have to deal with the waiting lines but at least don't have to pay a lot and will eventually get treatment. And that's for the non-urgent cases anyway.
In the US, everyone has to pay a shitload on either insurance or medical bills. Means a lot of poor people can't afford to get proper health care.
I do acknowledge that the public health care system in Europe presents problems when it comes to capacity (which is because there's not enough funding, because the doctors are paid from the collective pocket). But in the US, that problem doesn't exist just because not everyone has access to proper healthcare. That's a very shitty alternative.
On the other hand, our governments have to problem wasting money on bullshit like new types of weapons or other dumb projects that are not useful and never will be. Does make one think that humanity sort of failed.
We're supplying Iraq and Afghanistan with UHC.
Then again the US is a major factor in people needing healthcare over there in the first place.
Iraq maybe, but anything we've put in place or caused is better then the Taliban.
Yeah, the people there really love the Americans. That's why the whole government is going to collapse the moment the army leaves, it'll be because the people will just stop functioning out of sadness.
@Usopp:
Yeah, the people there really love the Americans. That's why the whole government is going to collapse the moment the army leaves, it'll be because the people will just stop functioning out of sadness.
This is a better state of existence then brutal tribal shariah enforcement.
I mean women are actually people again if nothing else.
Afghani people are just tired of their corrupt government and too cynical to even believe in the runoff election, they've lost all hope. Some even want the Americans to pick their leader.
(http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/world/asia/14afghan.html)
@Greg, That image was made using the same pic from my signature. AWESOME. hyuck hyuck :)
@Karate:
This is a better state of existence then brutal tribal shariah enforcement.
I mean women are actually people again if nothing else.
you can't make an addict quit shooting shit if he doesn't want to, and you can't change a culture if the people don't want to. It's not america's job to tell other people in the world what do to, and even if it was, it's not going to work by enforcing it with violence.
Besides, it's not like the US ever gave a shit about Afghanistan and how the people there were living, before 9/11. The whole "k look we're making your country better than it was" thing is just something to cover up the fact that this stupid war didn't do shit about terrorism. They don't even know if mister #1 Most Wanted is still alive or not. It's just like the stupid war on drugs. Good thing "Adolf" Obama seems to do something about that too.
you can't make an addict quit shooting shit if he doesn't want to, and you can't change a culture if the people don't want to. It's not america's job to tell other people in the world what do to, and even if it was, it's not going to work by enforcing it with violence.
lol, this nigga thinks the Taliban were a popular revolution and or democratic regime.
If you don't know the history of the country stop talking right now.
Besides, it's not like the US ever gave a shit about Afghanistan and how the people there were living, before 9/11. The whole "k look we're making your country better than it was" thing is just something to cover up the fact that this stupid war didn't do shit about terrorism.
The goal is to take out or ensure a regime like the Taliban doesn't have power, because they shelter and fund fellow fundamentalists.
The human rights bonus is just a nice aside.
@Usopp:
Good thing "Adolf" Obama seems to do something about that too.
Anyone who compares political opponents to Nazis should watch 30 hours of documentary footage from Auschwitz.
It was getting boring bashing on just right wing loonies like Brennan, glad we got some nutty lefties "OBAMA D. HITLER", lol.
what do I know, I'm just a dumb nigger after all. The blackness blinds me from seeing how awesome and nice the US is being for the world.
@Karate:
nigga
Obama doing nothing and receiving an award still makes more sense than Henry Kissinger and Mother Teresa getting them. It's a low bar guys. This thread is pretty pointless.
@Karate:
It was getting boring bashing on just right wing loonies like Brennan, glad we got some nutty lefties "OBAMA D. HITLER", lol.
it saddens me that the defense of the taliban or any such other groups is considered liberal or leftist stance. Isn't it just masochistic to let them do what they want.
@Usopp:
what do I know, I'm just a dumb nigger after all. The blackness blinds me from seeing how awesome and nice the US is being for the world.
Well it certainly blinds you from american slang and attached irony of usage in this context.
But yeah, otherwis ekeep trucking with your single minded retardation denying any good coming from anything, the ever useful far left world view.
Try not to die of depression and stress based ulcers before saving the world k?
You're the one pretending that his country is bombing other countries to save poor people from violent regimes you dumbass.
Anyone who compares political opponents to Nazis should watch 30 hours of documentary footage from Auschwitz.
Anyone who narrows the Nazi regime to the holocaust should take some history lessons. Either way, it's nothing short of ignorant to compare Obama to Hitler.
The Nobel is pretty ridiculous. It shouldn't surprise anyone though, I mean, if Al Gore won it, so can you!
Obama hasn't actually done anything, but I suppose he's restoring hope to humanity. Yay!?
@Usopp:
You're the one pretending that his country is bombing other countries to save poor people from violent regimes you dumbass.
No actually I never said that! You're not very good at this are you.
let me rephrase that: you think that by bombing countries that had a violent regime, the US is actually providing them a service. \
Comes down to the same thing: Afghanistan sucked before the US invaded and the taliban was in charge, and it still fucking sucks now. People had to be afraid of the regime back then, and now they have to be afraid of some douchebag dropping a bomb on their ass.
@Usopp:
Comes down to the same thing: Afghanistan sucked before the US invaded and the taliban was in charge, and it still fucking sucks now. People had to be afraid of the regime back then, and now they have to be afraid of some douchebag dropping a bomb on their ass.
Are you aware of Afghanistan's history? Or how the country changed after being armed by the American to stop Russia invading?
Are you aware of Afghanistan's history? Or how the country changed after being armed by the American to stop Russia invading?
don't try to act like a smartass and bring up the facts if you want to make a point.
I suppose at this point it's just a matter of time when Finland is going to withdraw peacekeeping forces from Afghanistan, really… But, man, at least I can't claim to know what's up with Afghanistan. Darn good if I can understand 1% of the whole thing. Things ain't simple when it comes to that country.
@Usopp:
don't try to act like a smartass and bring up the facts if you want to make a point.
Your so obscenely fukin arrogant it makes me sick.
How about you look up the facts before attempting to post something coherent.
How about you actually make a point on what you were trying to say about Afghanistan's history, how it changed after the Americans armed it to stop Russia from invading, and how it has anything to do with the war not being a shit situation to be in for the Afghan people.
@Usopp:
let me rephrase that: you think that by bombing countries that had a violent regime, the US is actually providing them a service. \
No I never said that, your goofy assumptions about what I was saying put those words in my mouth.
Good goin' champ!
Comes down to the same thing: Afghanistan sucked before the US invaded and the taliban was in charge, and it still fucking sucks now. People had to be afraid of the regime back then, and now they have to be afraid of some douchebag dropping a bomb on their ass.
We aren't carpet bombing Afghanistan, the guided missile thing is taking place in Pakistan if that's what your refering to.
If you don't think the current Afghan situation is better then the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan your just a stupid partisan who can't stand to acknowledge possible improvements in order to make a point.
Trying to compare pre-war Afghanistan to modern day Afghanistan is a fucking insult no matter how you look at it. The war's killed 10,000 civilians while over 50,000 were killed during the civil war. Women were forbidden to have jobs or attend universities, thousands of "communists" were slaughtered and the most minor of crimes were punished by amputation of the limbs or simply the death penalty. Everyone constantly lived in fear of being accused of crimes they didn't commit, even 14 year old boys were often strung up and left to die. In many ways it was like a small scale version of the Russian Purges. At least we are trying to bring a change for the better, even if our methods are flawed.
You want a truly devastating Afghan war, try the Soviet invasion.
I'm not supporting American meddling, it's lead to horrors and terrible regimes all over central and southern America and Africa. From priest murdering juntas to the intensely hypocritical and absolutely shameful crushing of democracy for right wing totalitarianism just because of the Cold War.
And I'm the last person to think any policy about Afghanistan is humanitarian in goal.
I'm speaking about results of events that have taken place. I'm not praising the war or the ideology behind it.
I'm making an undeniable comparison of before and after. And no matter how much ideological crocodile tears you want to shed, Afghanistan is better now then before.
Not every American meddling is horrific either, I doubt you can find much fault in the idea of airstrikes on Serbian installations during the 90's Yugoslav wars.
I agree on the idea that something good could come out of it. Doesn't mean I think it's actually going to happen. The US leaves -> muslim extremist are going to be in power again.
For those who think Obama hasn't done anything
For those who think Obama hasn't done anything
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