Originally posted by Buccaneer+Jun 25 2005, 12:43 PM–>QUOTE(Buccaneer @ Jun 25 2005, 12:43 PM)Usopp's nose is impossible.
Chapter 372 "Parage" Discussion
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You know, Luffy1Piece, there's really no need to be so hostile when you simply don't agree with me. Which might have been because I phrased what I meant wrongly…
Here, let me lay out in a way that might make better sense:
If Oda's not very careful, Franky's cyborg gimmick could very quickly turn into a cheap plot device. Something to prevent him from winning a battle too easily and quickly or something to offer quick solutions to obstacles (''A lock on the door? Mondo! Leave it up to this handy pick-lock I have installed in my pinky finger...''). Frankly, when a character is so overpowered he needs such weaknesses I simply don't like it. Take Kimimaro from Naruto for an example, who died of a disease because he was virtually indestructible otherwise. That just irks me. Franky's weaknesses are similar, though much less extreme.
As for his fighting style, it's equally set in stone: There's less room for improvising, because all of his techniques are functions he built in beforehand. He might have quite a few techniques built in, but it's still limited by the mechanics he applied sometime earlier. Yeah, there's quite a bit of variety, but in the end I consider it somewhat limited, similar to CP9's ''rokushiki''.
Added to that, his fighting style is for the most part robotic. He uses guns, flames, bazookas, etc... It's mostly just weaponry. That kind of premise somewhat irks me, as it implies Franky's power lies completely in his cybernetic upgrades, rather than what he carries as a person.
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What's the difference between carrying things on him like Usopp or in him, though?
while Franky has his arms, his nose, his hair unless who have super mega strong hair wax that resist water
Well, since the main character's body has the properties of rubber, I don't consider big forearms, which aren't even supposed to be natural, or a metal nose to be that far out there. And as for his hair, well, Oda's not the type to draw his hair down for the rest of the arc just because of a splash or two.
And really, what this says is that Pauly just looks like everyone else, which'd be kinda boring.
Usopp specialty is shooting. And Namis specialty is.. well that thing she does, I mnean Franky is good melee, at range and now, he can transform too, plus he can blow things out of his mouth.. its just too much IMO..
Sorry, but I can't really find this valid because you can't say what Nami does exactly.
And I don't see how Usopp is different. he has a big bag of varied tricks, like Franky, the only difference is he exacutes most things in the same way. That'd be like Franky shooting his fists and extra legs out of his mouth.
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Originally posted by Mog@Jun 25 2005, 11:56 AM
something to offer quick solutions to obstacles (''A lock on the door? Mondo! Leave it up to this handy pick-lock I have installed in my pinky finger…'').
[snapback]76849[/snapback]eh, what are you trying to say? Zoro could just as easily cut through a door and Sanji could kick it…
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Think ya missed it, Ark. :P He's saying it could have cheap applications that help with a specific task, just when they need it. Though, Franky's upgrades all seem limited to weapons. He's not sprouting a helicopter. :P
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 25 2005, 01:00 PM
**> while Franky has his arms, his nose, his hair unless who have super mega strong hair wax that resist waterWell, since the main character's body has the properties of rubber, I don't consider big forearms, which aren't even supposed to be natural, or a metal nose to be that far out there. And as for his hair, well, Oda's not the type to draw his hair down for the rest of the arc just because of a splash or two.
And really, what this says is that Pauly just looks like everyone else, which'd be kinda boring.
Usopp specialty is shooting. And Namis specialty is.. well that thing she does, I mnean Franky is good melee, at range and now, he can transform too, plus he can blow things out of his mouth.. its just too much IMO..
Sorry, but I can't really find this valid because you can't say what Nami does exactly.
[snapback]76853[/snapback]**But Luffy does looks like rubber does he? I just meant that everyone looks like normal humans except that they one unnatural thing(Usopps nose, Sanjis eyebrows, Zoro haircolor, Chopper bluenose)), but Franky doesnt have one unnatural thing, he has alot of unnatural things.. Understand?!?! ;)
ok ok, just skip it then… :P
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Ah, I'll come back to it. I know exactly what you meant, but the thing is, you just can't judge a book by its cover.
Or try to make an exception. Chopper is not the Straw Hat pet, he's just as respectable as Usopp or Sanji or anyone. They don't look down on him at all, he's just like one of the humans.
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I really don't think that you got what I meant… ^^
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 25 2005, 12:06 PM
Think ya missed it, Ark. :P He's saying it could have cheap applications that help with a specific task, just when they need it. Though, Franky's upgrades all seem limited to weapons. He's not sprouting a helicopter. :P
[snapback]76860[/snapback]Well, isn't that sorta like Ussop and his inventions? Like his red snake star in arabasta or his rope belt in skypiea?
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Yeah, Ark. I didn't think about it like that….
I know what you meant exactly, Solid. They all look pretty much normal. However, I'm saying that because he doesn't doesn't mean he can't be a Straw Hat anyway. Just like Chopper, who is no less of a Straw Hat than anyone else.
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I consider Chopper a pretty weird looking thing o_0 Teddy bear werereindeer with a pink top hat.
Edit: Ah, didn't see you admitted this yourself. Then… nevermind >_> But still, he's no less a crewmember than the rest of 'em, just as Buc said, so I'm with him on this one.
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But Chopper doesnt look weird in his normal ntural form aside from the clothes.
its just that almost everyone in the strawhatts does look kinda normal, while Franky.. it is just too much on him IMO. -
Well, there's also one of his patched up antlers, and his nose. And Chopper is out of his normal form maybe….90% of the time.
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 25 2005, 01:26 PM
Well, there's also one of his patched up antlers, and his nose. And Chopper is out of his normal form maybe….90% of the time.
[snapback]76883[/snapback]… I'm gettting tired of this... :( No offense man, I just don't think that Franky looks like a strawhatt.
I wonder if Franky can take off his shirt, or is his arms too big? :rolleyes:
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I'll jump in because I haven't talked in awhile on here… haha....
Honestly, I like both and won't be disappointed with either. But I do have a certain affection for Paulie and would choose him to join for a few reasons.
I agree with everyone that yes, Franky has been given a LOT of character development. If he doesn't join, he'll be the most fleshed-out character to not have joined. And even though he's the arc's current "Golden Boy", as someone pointed out the arc is far from over. I think the fight with Nero will be his last in this arc which is why Oda is going "all out" with him now. Oda's got a crazy imagination and he's having alot of fun with Franky so he's playing with what he can do. The arc should have Franky incapicated again soon and brought before Spandam. After this, the arc will then return its focus to the people on the Rocket Man and their efforts to rescue Franky and Robin. At this point, the story will center on Paulie more and we'll see what he can do. Even if Paulie doesn't join, I think Oda will keep Paulie prominent and give him a fight just to keep us guessing on the new crew member.
Heck, it wouldn't suprise me to see him involved with the Lucci fight in some way.I honestly don't think Franky will end up joining because his character design is inspired too much by Popeye. It's more than a passing glance as are the Squire Sisters and Blueno to their Popeye counterparts. Oda just probably really likes the Popeye character and figured if he was going to do a storyline about a port town and shipwrights, he'd make his own version of Popeye and give him a central role in that story.
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Ah. Well, Solid, you said you couldn't see him in a color spread, which made me wonder why, because of all the insane things Oda draws in those. As for him being a Straw Hat, eh, we'll see.
His arms do seem to be too big, though.
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Originally posted by Mog@Jun 25 2005, 10:56 AM
**You know, Luffy1Piece, there's really no need to be so hostile when you simply don't agree with me. Which might have been because I phrased what I meant wrongly…Here, let me lay out in a way that might make better sense:
If Oda's not very careful, Franky's cyborg gimmick could very quickly turn into a cheap plot device. Something to prevent him from winning a battle too easily and quickly or something to offer quick solutions to obstacles (''A lock on the door? Mondo! Leave it up to this handy pick-lock I have installed in my pinky finger...''). Frankly, when a character is so overpowered he needs such weaknesses I simply don't like it. Take Kimimaro from Naruto for an example, who died of a disease because he was virtually indestructible otherwise. That just irks me. Franky's weaknesses are similar, though much less extreme.
As for his fighting style, it's equally set in stone: There's less room for improvising, because all of his techniques are functions he built in beforehand. He might have quite a few techniques built in, but it's still limited by the mechanics he applied sometime earlier. Yeah, there's quite a bit of variety, but in the end I consider it somewhat limited, similar to CP9's ''rokushiki''.
Added to that, his fighting style is for the most part robotic. He uses guns, flames, bazookas, etc... It's mostly just weaponry. That kind of premise somewhat irks me, as it implies Franky's power lies completely in his cybernetic upgrades, rather than what he carries as a person.
[snapback]76849[/snapback]**Sorry, I didn't really mean for it to come off as aggressive as it did but to me it sounded like you were saying because Franky's a cyborg, that he's a talentless hack and I strongly dissagree with that.
While I agree with you on Kimimaro having that illness as a deus ex machina way of him being defeated was lame, I do think that it's not exactly the same situation.
And who says that Franky's fights are set in stone? Is it not possible for him to devise new ways to use old attacks, use something that he already had but we hadn't seen before or for him to build new upgrades or attacks as the series progressed? It's really no different than Usopp whipping out a new type of ammo mid battle that we'd never seen before or even Luffy, Sanji or Zoro pulling new moves out of their ass at random mid battle to pull off a win.
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 25 2005, 02:37 PM
His arms do seem to be too big, though.
[snapback]76893[/snapback]I actually liked it in this chapter when his arms flattened out into a shield. That was pretty cool. :D
You'd think though with all his mechanical genius he'd find some kind of way to install armor on his back, ya know?
I also don't see all of his moves being "set in stone" as a reason why he wouldn't join the crew. If Nami can keep upgrading her stick, Franky can just keep upgrading himself too.
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I am not sure if this has been mentioned… but I just realized Franky's Centaur Mode looks a lot like "Gaia Impulse"'s transformed modefrom Edit: Destiny Astray
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I have no idea what that is.
But Franky probably figured that there'd be no way to put armor on his back without it being awkward or revealing.
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Originally posted by GunMetal: Reloaded@Jun 25 2005, 10:35 AM
It's more than a passing glance as are the Squire Sisters and Blueno to their Popeye counterparts.
[snapback]76891[/snapback]Huh, I never noticed that before, but you're right - Franky and Blueno, Popeye and Bluto. But come on, the Square Sisters are WAY hotter than Olive Oyl. Although they do share some of the same sharp angularity, just in a different place…..
Great attack name - "OUCHY FINGER"! And I loved "hen.... tai".
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Originally posted by GunMetal: Reloaded@Jun 25 2005, 11:35 AM
I honestly don't think Franky will end up joining because his character design is inspired too much by Popeye. It's more than a passing glance as are the Squire Sisters and Blueno to their Popeye counterparts. Oda just probably really likes the Popeye character and figured if he was going to do a storyline about a port town and shipwrights, he'd make his own version of Popeye and give him a central role in that story.If anything I think that makes it more likely since that would be only yet another layer of depth that the other characters competing for the position don't have. Keep in mind something like that wouldn't be unprecedented either as both Usopp and Chopper are also based on other character concepts.
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Originally posted by GunMetal: Reloaded@Jun 25 2005, 01:35 PM
I agree with everyone that yes, Franky has been given a LOT of character development. If he doesn't join, he'll be the most fleshed-out character to not have joined.
[snapback]76891[/snapback]Nah, Vivi got more.. (well, a lot too atleast)
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Originally posted by jackvance+Jun 25 2005, 06:25 PM–>QUOTE(jackvance @ Jun 25 2005, 06:25 PM)
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I understand Solid´s "He doesn´t look like the others" argument however we have to realize that right now we´re approaching completing the 10 nakama aim Luffy mentioned to Corby.
The thing is that the first five characters almost had the same anatomy and then came Chopper who broke the monotony. Then Robin was again like all the others. However if you go by the fact that with the carpenter Luffy will get four more nakama and that if they would all have the same anatomy, then it would be somehow, I don´t know how to say it…boring.
I mean you need the one or the other guy who looks a little bit out of pattern when you look at the total crew. Imagine if we would have 11 Strawhats at the end and only Chopper wouldn´t fit in anatomywise. Somehow it would make him appear as if he doesn´t belong there (just by the looks) but if you got one or two more who are shaped a little bit differently then it changes the entire picture of the whole crew.
And with the wide and tall Franky we actually a good contrast to the small Chopper.The entire thing is actually just as if you look at a mosaic. A piece itself doesn´t do the trick but if you look at the completed thing then it actually fits perfectly. :D
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At this point saying someone will or will not join is still premature.
However, as I said before, I will be very surprised if he does not join their ranks. That's all.
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I haven't kept track of the recent discussion save the last coulpe pages, so I apologize if I leave out something important.
First off, thank you to Mog, who explained what it was that bugged me about Franky's weakness/abilities. Somethign was botherign me, but I was having difficulty wording it just right. Mog more or less nailed it, as well as a few other points I hadn't thought of.
I don't mind Franky's multitude of attacks so much. They show Franky's prowess pretty well as he built them in himself and it shows the kinds of situations he planned his ahead for. He's impulsive, but he can think pretty well.
I'm still in the line of thinking that Franky (and the Family/Galley-La maybe) will build the new ship while Paulie's the joiner.
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Originally posted by Ivotas@Jun 25 2005, 07:10 PM
**The thing is that the first five characters almost had the same anatomy and then came Chopper who broke the monotony. Then Robin was again like all the others. However if you go by the fact that with the carpenter Luffy will get four more nakama and that if they would all have the same anatomy, then it would be somehow, I don´t know how to say it…boring.[snapback]77105[/snapback]**
I kinda disagree on Robin being "like the others". She, too, breaks the mold.. even more so than Chopper in my opinion.
Chopper may not be a true human, but he's very much like the others. He's young, he's playful at times, and he fits right in with the others as far as personality goes. That he's a reindeer doesn't really mean much, since his age and personality match the others decently.
Robin, on the other hand, is an adult. She's quiet, she's mysterious, and she has her own agenda that, at times, she seems to care more for than the crew she's with. Granted, that seems to be changing now, but her personality is still a very odd match for the Straw Hats.
If you're going by anatomy… barring the fact that he's a cyborg, Franky is still human. What makes him different from the Straw Hats is less that he's a cyborg, and more that he's in his mid 30's... nearly 2 decades older than Luffy. He's lived a lot of his life already, has a family he cares deeply for (A family that depends on him, not just a group of people who're close to him), and has a dream that could conceivably be realized by building Luffy an incredible ship. He also seems set in his ways, as his outrageous behavior seems to be no surprise to the denizens of Water 7.
Paulie.. well, we don't really know a lot about him yet. We don't know if he has dreams or ambitions, we don't know what he's like in a fair fight, and we don't know much more about him than he's fiercely loyal to Iceburg, and willing to throw away his lifestyle, and possibly his life, to avenge Iceburg. But we know he's young, he's got a quirky personality, and he's not over-powered.... we also know he's got insane stamina, standing up after all he went through with CP9 and the burning Galley-La building.
Not saying it'll absolutely be one or the other, but Franky isn't necessarily a perfect candidate, even with so much depth given to him... and we don't know enough about Paulie to totally discount him either.
This is just my opinion.
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_Originally posted by omae no kaasan v.2+Jun 26 2005, 05:53 AM–>QUOTE(omae no kaasan v.2 @ Jun 26 2005, 05:53 AM)__At this point saying someone will or will not join is still premature.
[snapback]77237[/snapback]:huh: This is the only two options we´ve got. When else should we speculate about it if not now. Wouldn´t it be pointless to discuss it when they´ve found their carpenter? ;)
Originally posted by Konis@Jun 26 2005, 06:21 AM
****The thing is that the first five characters almost had the same anatomy and then came Chopper who broke the monotony. Then Robin was again like all the others. However if you go by the fact that with the carpenter Luffy will get four more nakama and that if they would all have the same anatomy, then it would be somehow, I don´t know how to say it…boring.[snapback]77105[/snapback]**
I kinda disagree on Robin being "like the others". She, too, breaks the mold.. even more so than Chopper in my opinion.
Chopper may not be a true human, but he's very much like the others. He's young, he's playful at times, and he fits right in with the others as far as personality goes. That he's a reindeer doesn't really mean much, since his age and personality match the others decently.
Robin, on the other hand, is an adult. She's quiet, she's mysterious, and she has her own agenda that, at times, she seems to care more for than the crew she's with. Granted, that seems to be changing now, but her personality is still a very odd match for the Straw Hats.
If you're going by anatomy… barring the fact that he's a cyborg, Franky is still human. What makes him different from the Straw Hats is less that he's a cyborg, and more that he's in his mid 30's... nearly 2 decades older than Luffy. He's lived a lot of his life already, has a family he cares deeply for (A family that depends on him, not just a group of people who're close to him), and has a dream that could conceivably be realized by building Luffy an incredible ship. He also seems set in his ways, as his outrageous behavior seems to be no surprise to the denizens of Water 7.
Paulie.. well, we don't really know a lot about him yet. We don't know if he has dreams or ambitions, we don't know what he's like in a fair fight, and we don't know much more about him than he's fiercely loyal to Iceburg, and willing to throw away his lifestyle, and possibly his life, to avenge Iceburg. But we know he's young, he's got a quirky personality, and he's not over-powered.... we also know he's got insane stamina, standing up after all he went through with CP9 and the burning Galley-La building.
Not saying it'll absolutely be one or the other, but Franky isn't necessarily a perfect candidate, even with so much depth given to him... and we don't know enough about Paulie to totally discount him either.
This is just my opinion.
[snapback]77256[/snapback]**Erm, all I was trying to say is that they all almost look alike anatomy wise, that Chopper is the only one who look completely different in that terms and that with Franky you would have another character who doesn´t follow the same pattern. It would be very boring if in the end from eleven Strawhats only Chopper would be the only one who isn´t built more or less the same as the ten others. So one or two more guys who look different aren´t that bad._
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i dont think either of them will join. my opinion is that the ship GM is going to come back and the new member is going to be GM it self, as the reincarnation - THE KLABAUTERMAN.
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There, Franky fits in perfectly with the crew.
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High quality raw for those still waiting. :)
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Thanks, I hated the tint.
This is the only two options we´ve got. When else should we speculate about it if not now. Wouldn´t it be pointless to discuss it when they´ve found their carpenter?
I guess when the CP9 business is over.
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Franky's speedos are a part of his body :blink:
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Heh, I missed the serpent design on the handle of Wanze's huge kinfe on the lq.
Anyways, I'm uber pumped to see the attack power of Franky's centaur. I think the last time he showed that kind of confidence/smugness in a move, was right before 'Coup de Vent' and we all know how crazy that thing was. :P
Damn! 373 should be massive. Colour spread+centaur Franky+Sanji/CP9 showdown+Sogeki-Robin comedy capers(?) :o
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Originally posted by paWok@Jun 26 2005, 09:59 AM
i dont think either of them will join. my opinion is that the ship GM is going to come back and the new member is going to be GM it self, as the reincarnation - THE KLABAUTERMAN.
[snapback]77413[/snapback]God I hope not. His repair job was worse than Usopp's!!
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Klabautermann? Ew, he looks like that Chopper from the Korean knockoff.
You missed the serpent, BF? I missed the part where he pulled it out. I still dunno where he was hiding it. Maybe I wouldn't want to….
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 26 2005, 11:46 PM
You missed the serpent, BF?
[snapback]77442[/snapback]What can I say? Wanze's face was distracting, even moreso than usual. :lol:
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 26 2005, 04:07 PM
**> This is the only two options we´ve got. When else should we speculate about it if not now. Wouldn´t it be pointless to discuss it when they´ve found their carpenter?I guess when the CP9 business is over.
[snapback]77423[/snapback]**But then they might already have one. And where´s the fun of speculating about something when the decission has already been made?
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 26 2005, 10:46 AM
Klabautermann? Ew, he looks like that Chopper from the Korean knockoff.What's Korean knockoff? Just curious…
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Ivotas, there may just be some time in between Lucci's loss and the nomination of the 8th Straw Hat.
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Eh, I'm confident he's joining. The hat-wager is still on.
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 26 2005, 02:41 PM
**Bam.Ivotas, there may just be some time in between Lucci's loss and the nomination of the 8th Straw Hat.
[snapback]77582[/snapback]**That 'Wa Peace' or whatever the hell it is called is just too damn funny. The Sanji knockoff is great in his yellow jumpsuit, but nothing beats the Chopper, that is just weird.
As for the 8th crewmwmber thing, I'm going to say that nothing will happen there until the bad guys are taken care of. Once that's finished though, Luffy will pretty much ask everyone to join the crew, but only a couple at most will have the reason to want to join, Franky and Paulie being at the top of that list. I think there will be many months of debate left on this issue before Oda finally gives us an answer.
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Originally posted by Buccaneer@Jun 26 2005, 11:41 AM
**Bam.[snapback]77582[/snapback]**
I am utterly shocked that such a horrific looking thing EXISTS.
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My eyes have been violated. ;_;
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It says "From Flash Animation", any idea if this flash actually exsists somewhere?
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here's hoping that franky is the one to join,
he is so cooooool -
Originally posted by KillerSteak@Jun 26 2005, 07:31 PM
It says "From Flash Animation", any idea if this flash actually exsists somewhere?
[snapback]77797[/snapback]Actually pretty much ALL cartoons are made with Flash these days…
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Klabautermann? Ew, he looks like that Chopper from the Korean knockoff.
That's great! You know what that IS? It's the pirate from a popular children's game in Japan which you push swords into a barrel and the 'right' spot sends the pirate flying out of the barrel.
That can literally be purchased at like ANY Japanese convenience store for like 200 yen ^o^
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Huh, that's unexpected. And weird….but hey, it does sound kinda cool. :lol: Kinda makes me wish I could check out the adventures of..... well, I know no Korean, but I assume his name is "Punchy D. Freddy."