Is Haki a Technique? Should it be Translated?

Captain Shmeckie

There are many instances in fiction where an author will take a common word and use that word with different purpose than its intended meaning. Take Star Wars for example. Is "the Force" meant to simply be someone using force, as in 'to drive or compel against resistance'? No, it is simply a word that the author used to define a unique ability or power that exists only in the domain of the universe he created. He simply chose the word because its real definition is fitting for what it is.

Holy crap, that's the worst haki argument ever! No, seriously! Why? Because "The Force" is not only used in a different context than what you're saying, he didn't change the definition at all! Oh, Dictionary!

force /fɔrs, foʊrs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fawrs, fohrs] Show IPA noun, verb, forced, forc⋅ing.
–noun

1.physical power or strength possessed by a living being: He used all his force in opening the window.

2.strength or power exerted upon an object; physical coercion; violence: to use force to open the window; to use force on a person.

3.strength; energy; power; intensity: a personality of great force.

4.power to influence, affect, or control; efficacious power: the force of circumstances; a force for law and order.

5.Law. unlawful violence threatened or committed against persons or property.

6.persuasive power; power to convince: They felt the force of his arguments.

7.mental or moral strength: force of character.

8.might, as of a ruler or realm; strength for war.

9.Often, forces. the military or fighting strength, esp. of a nation.

10.any body of persons combined for joint action: a sales force.

11.intensity or strength of effect: the force of her acting.

12.Physics. a.an influence on a body or system, producing or tending to produce a change in movement or in shape or other effects.b.the intensity of such an influence. Symbol: F, f

13.any influence or agency analogous to physical force: social forces.

14.binding power, as of a contract.1

5.Baseball. force play.

16.value; significance; meaning.

17.Billiards. a stroke in which the cue ball is forcibly struck directly below the center in such a manner as to cause it to stop abruptly, bound back, or roll off to one side after hitting the object ball.

Making your example even worse is the fact that "haki" is a common Japanese word, used in the same context and manner of that Japanese word. He isn't making a noun out of a verb, here. Now, if you've just got a boner for the Japanese language and think it's so magically deep, fine. You'd look silly, but at least be honest about it. Don't try to sell some bullshit that it's a magic, untranslatable word. It didn't fly with "nakama," and it ain't gonna fly here. All it is is ambition, spirit and willpower. The Japanese may have one word for all that, but we don't. We do, however, have the ability to perfectly and easily translate it.

Shishi-O

@Demon:

It's not "Magical" Willpower, it's NORMAL Willpower.
In the One Piece World, the Sheer force of your Willpower or your Ambition to succeed is enough to power you up. That is the Idea behind this.
Luffy's got REALLY strong Willpower because his Ambition is to become Pirate King. Hancock has it too because she started out her Life as a Slave, and through sheer determination was able to bring herself to the level of being Empress of a Nation.
That Willpower can be used to do attacks, but it's not an attack in and of itself, it's the Catalyst for the Attack.
The Thing Shanks did to the Lord of the Coast and Luffy did to Motobaro and the Kuja wasn't an attack at all. It was just them Intimidating those people with the force of their Willpower. Now the Arrow thing pretty much IS an attack, but again, The Willpower itself isn't the attack, The Arrows are. They just use their Willpower to make the arrows more powerful.
Doesn't that Make a LOT more sense? That a Person's sheer force of Will makes them Strong? It's a much simpler explanation that actually makes sense Vs using the Deus Ex Machina Excuse that "It's a Random New Power that came from nowhere"

i think the haki can be seen in the frazier vs ali fight.

frazier was willing to die in the ring, it is unquestioned that he used up the rest of his boxing career in that ring against Ali.

brennen.exe

@Captain:

Holy crap, that's the worst haki argument ever! No, seriously! Why? Because "The Force" is not only used in a different context than what you're saying, he didn't change the definition at all! Oh, Dictionary!

In Star Wars, "The Force" isn't just what the real world definition of 'force' is. It is much more, but it is named accordingly because of the nature of its power. It isn't just a typical noun/verb, but rather has special meaning in the story and is thus emphasized, capitalized, etc.

Han Solo: Hold on Chewie, looks like I'll have to force my way in. Chewbacca**:** Grreeoowddd!? (Translation: "Holy Sh**, when'd you become a Jedi!?")

@Captain:

Making your example even worse is the fact that "haki" is a common Japanese word, used in the same context and manner of that Japanese word.

Let's see if I got this right. This is how the word "Haki" is used in Japan? They even add special quotes whenever they say it or write it?:

Margaret: The arrows are infused with "my will to dominate"! Of course they're powerful!
@Captain:

He isn't making a noun out of a verb, here. Now, if you've just got a boner for the Japanese language and think it's so magically deep, fine. You'd look silly, but at least be honest about it. Don't try to sell some bullshit that it's a magic, untranslatable word.

~~It's called a homophone, you dumbass.~~ See, this is where I lose you. George Lucas did use a verb as a noun, and there are many cases in fiction where real words are used as a name to something, and the word is given a different definition for its different content. In phonetics, you would call that a homophone. Take "Karate" as an example, which wasn't a made up word, but how you would say 'empty hand'. So I am not "making up" anything. I am simply looking at how the word was used. Now please explain to me how this isn't being used as a noun:

Hatchan: They call that power "Ambition." I don't know much about it, either…

Yup. That makes sense. He was just talking about Rayleigh's strong will to….live...or something. And he...forced that will...onto them. Oh! But it isn't a named technique, it's just talking about his will…and...and Hatchan just said "call that power" -- you know, as in REFERRING TO SOMETHING BY NAME -- because he talks funny.

Question: is no one else annoyed with the translation being Ambition? seriously, it seems we have had someone decide its the word to use but it just doesn't sound right or actually make sense when put into a sentence

Why cant we have a translator use his initiative to come up with something more fitting, because the more and more we learn about haki, the less it seems to correspond to its intended use…....

To sum it up i think we should decide on something more suitable, personally i would agree with silvers translation of breaking up the word into something like
'dominant aura/energy'

It fits much better with the scripts so far and doesn't leave any confusion?

Does anyone else see where I'm coming from on this translation subject?

kewl0210

I don't feel like reading through this thread of giant posts of people saying the same thing… I just wanted to make a couple points.

The word for "willpower" is "yaruki" 遣る気やる気. If you're going to translate "haki" it should be "ambition". Willpower is distinctly different. Other translations would be "aspiration" and "get-up-and-go"

And I think Demon Rin is right, it's justifiable to translate it because it seems to be the thing itself, and not something named after the thing. In One Piece it just has a special quality. This is evident by the "king's ambition" line.

However, if they explain its meaning later (and probably will eventually) and they say "it's a special kind of energy caused by those who have great ambition" and not "a manifestation of strong ambition" then it would be a technique, and therefore not be translated. But for now it seems fine either way, but it's not unacceptable to translate.

Also, based on the few ways it's been used, like Hacchan says "It's something called 'haki', I don't know much about it" makes it seem like it might be the former, he says "something called" (という) so it makes it seem like a special name. But it's unclear as of now. He may just not know what it is or how it works so he's saying "that's what they call it".

There's one other thing, there's an old standby for translators: "There's an easy fix for something you don't know how to translate, by not translating it." If you can't pick a word that explains "覇気" it would be better to not translate it even if it just means the literal meaning.

m00n

@ Brennen.exe:
Force has actually been translated in other localisations of Star Wars. It's not "Möge die force mit dir sein" in German. It's "Möge die Macht mit dir sein" So whatever the force in Star Wars might be, Die Macht is also.

If there any additional meaning (all kind of psycic powers) to force in Star Wars it has been transferred to Macht in the German version of Star Wars.
If there's any addition meaning (all kind of psycic powers) to haki in One Piece there should just be one to ambition in the Englisch version of One Piece too.

Your argument is flawless… FOR tranlating it, not against.

brennen.exe

@m00n:

Force has actually been translated in other localisations of Star Wars. It's not "Möge die force mit dir sein" in German. It's "Möge die Macht mit dir sein" So whatever the force in Star Wars might be, Die Macht is also.

German, eh? If in Germany someone had a conversation with me and mentioned my name, should an English person translating the conversation refer to me as "Scorch"? Since my name is a German verb for "To Burn" or "Scorch"? No. Names are names, and thus why names don't get translated. Names of company's, names of people, names of art styles and techniques. In America, where I speak English, I learn Karate, not "Empty Hand". And that's just the name argument. Assuming that Hachi referred to "Haki" as a named item, which he did, he was naming it because it isn't just a defineable word, but something else. That would fall under what I mentioned earlier, a homophone. A word that sounds the same as another word, and might even have the same spelling, but means something different. Dictionary example being "rose"; rose the flower, and rose the past tense of rise. I'm not saying it is that exactly, but that the naming scheme is a sort of play on the real word Haki, since the concept – or maybe just story theme -- relates to the word.

Edit: And I am not saying that my view on this is absolute. I am merely suggesting it as another possibility since Haki has not been explained yet.

fedcom

@brennen.exe:

German, eh? If in Germany someone had a conversation with me and mentioned my name, should an English person translating the conversation refer to me as "Scorch"? Since my name is a German verb for "To Burn" or "Scorch"? No. Names are names, and thus why names don't get translated. Names of company's, names of people, names of art styles and techniques. In America, where I speak English, I learn Karate, not "Empty Hand". And that's just the name argument. Assuming that Hachi referred to "Haki" as a named item, which he did, he was naming it because it isn't just a defineable word, but something else. That would fall under what I mentioned earlier, a homophone. A word that sounds the same as another word, and might even have the same spelling, but means something different. Dictionary example being "rose"; rose the flower, and rose the past tense of rise. I'm not saying it is that exactly, but that the naming scheme is a sort of play on the real word Haki, since the concept – or maybe just story theme -- relates to the word.

Edit: And I am not saying that my view on this is absolute. I am merely suggesting it as another possibility since Haki has not been explained yet.

I agree. Both Hatchan and the Amazons were referring to Haki as a technique

Ao Kiji

The ENTIRE Meaning of the scene is COMPLETELY Lost, because instead of saying Luffy has The "Ambition of a [Warring] King", they Simply say he has "Haoshoku Haki".
And Look, Franky House NOW seems to think Haki is SO much a Magical word, that it has NO TRANSLATION WHATSOEVER!! Do you see a Translation for it? EVEN IN THE MARGINS?!?!
I Mean wow… just Wow... This is the impression people have gotten of it, that it's just a new Magical Mystical attack that has no ground other than "Yay, Luffy can now Magically do Haki!!", so much so that Franky House decided "Lol, not Gonna translate it AT ALL, EVEN IN THE MARGINS!!" I mean seriously, if you're not gonna translate it, AT LEAST tell us what it means with a Translation Note in the Margins!! But no, They decided Haki was TOO PRECIOUS to have a translation, so there you go.

Once again, I prefer the english term "Ambition" but that's an EXTREME fucking example and not everyone translates that way. In the anime translations so far I haven't seen anyone using "Haki" as the term. That scene is just as understandable with "He has the Haki of the [warrior] King." The important part to convey is the reference to Luffy and a king, not the word itself.

You never see someone calling out "HAKI BLAST!!" or something. the Character can use their Ambition as a sort of fuel for an attack.

He doesn't literally SHOUT but staring at a room full of people so hard that his Ambition knocks them down is sort of a blast of Haki in my opinion. He isn't infusing an attack with Haki, Luffy doesn't have a Gomu gomu STARE attack that he made more powerful by infusing it with his Haki. It's literally the burst of his Ambition that knocks them down.

Also, you DO know that someone is going to twist that logic, right? "Ki isn't the attack itself, but it FUELS the attack! Like how the Kamaehamaeha is the attack, but it USES Ki…" Might wanna word that better... Personally, I'd compare it to some kind of Dungeons & Dragons enhancement charm or whatever. It adds some D4 damage, or something. Plus added effects.

I like how even you realized this is the logical and correct conclusion, but can only offer your personal opinion as a reason to not agree with it. Ambition is the ki, spirtual energy, spiritual pressure of One Piece. Unless it's revealed that ALL emotions have some special power or energy at a high level. So far, it works in the exact same way as Ki in Dragonball. It's a part of your spirit uses to enhance attacks and on it's own effects others with a weaker spirit.

Again, this is why English-only people do not get it. Ki didn't fucking come from Dragonball.

Yes! THIS! Chi is a common fucking idea in many eastern philosophies, not some magical shonen power and I got that's what you were saying. It's akin to the idea of a spirit to the western world. I mean part of feng shua is chi flow and no one is claiming that is infusing your room with the power to shoot fireballs and shit. It's the concept of harnessing the ethereal together to influence the corporeal–mind over matter.

@kewl0210
So do you agree or disagree that the translation to ambition sounds wrong and doesn't actually make sense with its intended use in the script?

I think that when haki is fully explained in the later chapters we will realise that ambition does not work, it maybe the translation so far but its a bad one.

SBS QUESTION: What other word would you use instead of ambition to help with the English translation?

Again look up the word ambition in the dictionary and see how it can possibly be imbued into an object, if it was another word like….....ki, chakra, aura, spiritual energy etc. etc then it would be clearer for its intended use and may make a lot more sense.

Ao Kiji

And to first post: Haki is not a technique, like how "the force" in Star Wars is not a technique. Pushing objects with it IS a technique. Knocking people out with Haki is a technique. Fusing it into an arrow is a technique. But Haki is not a technique.

-APPLAUSE-
This should fucking be stickied.
I empathize with how annoying and dumb it is to see threads like "Does Sanji use FIRE HAKI" and things like that, but claiming it isn't a special power is pretty retarded. It does carry this vague, mystical connotation with the way it's used in One Piece. I think using the word Ambition in italics is the best way to get this across.

I agree, Ambition power–or "Power of his Ambition" to sound more natural in english--would also be a suitable stand in and get the point across. It's a common word, but with a deeper meaning, especially in the context and getting across that it's a SPECIAL kind of Ambition is most important, I think. The word Ambition itself works but people may miss that such a common word is used in a mystical way in the series. Adding some italics or the word POWER to it, would make it clearer without losing the word itself. The word Ambition fits the aesthetic of OP so well, I'm kinda disappointed Yibis decided to go with WillPower.

Haki is fine translated, but I think the reason people are using the original Japanese term is so it carries the special meaning intended in the series. Not because they just LOOOOVE those kookie Japanese words. When you say "Do you think Luffy;s Ambition is strong enough?" Which application of the word you're using is unclear. Something like "Do you think Luffy's Ambition power is strong enough?" makes it clearer what you're talking about.

Skull Kid

@Urouge:

I will be very disappointed if Yibis translates haki as the common english word "willpower," which is common and carries no special meaning at all. At least make up a phrase that isn't used in every day life (so that it sticks out, like "ambition energy") if you really feel the desire to translate it. Willpower, like ambition, is a word that can be easily glanced over and missed completely.

Exactly. Willpower and ambition do not have the same special kind of meaning that Haki does. Someone could easily glance over subs or scanlations with those words there and not really grasp the full impact of whats going on or why its important.

And I actually would call the Force from Star Wars a technique. Or at least an ability. Its a special thing that has to be learned with training that people use to do attacks and other things with. Thats what a technique is.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/technique

tech⋅nique
/tɛkˈnik/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tek-neek] Show IPA
–noun
1. the manner and ability with which an artist, writer, dancer, athlete, or the like employs the technical skills of a particular art or field of endeavor.
2. the body of specialized procedures and methods used in any specific field, esp. in an area of applied science.
3. method of performance; way of accomplishing.
4. technical skill; ability to apply procedures or methods so as to effect a desired result.
5. Informal. method of projecting personal charm, appeal, etc.: He has the greatest technique with customers.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ability

a⋅bil⋅i⋅ty
/əˈbɪlɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-bil-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1. power or capacity to do or act physically, mentally, legally, morally, financially, etc.
2. competence in an activity or occupation because of one's skill, training, or other qualification: the ability to sing well.
3. abilities, talents; special skills or aptitudes

How does Haki not fit any of those descriptions?

Joe

This intrigues me into wondering how Funi will handle this 10 years from now when they get to Duval arc.

Phoenix Zoan

After Rayleigh did the Haki burst he commented on how he wouldn't use that power anymore. Sounds like a technique to me.

Ao Kiji

Yeah, I think that's the best way to sum it u:
Haki isn't a technique on its own, it's a special ability.
The Force in Star Wars was a great analogy to understanding the usage in OP.

I agree with Brennen's post emphatically except there's no real reason to keep it in Japanese.
Ambition in quotes or Ambition Power is fine.

Holy crap, that's the worst haki argument ever! No, seriously! Why? Because "The Force" is not only used in a different context than what you're saying, he didn't change the definition at all! Oh, Dictionary!

Silvers' entire post was pointing out how AMBITION HAS A VAGUE MEANING IN JAPANESE akin to "Force" in english. Force has a vague meaning in english, Haki has a vague meaning like Spirit or energy in english. The word Ambition, in english, has a much more finite, specific meaning.

The word "Power" carries a vague meaning and adding that to the closest translation "Ambition" solves the problem from what I say? Do people from either side honestly have a problem with Ambition Power? It's in english but still carries the mystical ability connotations…
"Luffy's learned to use the power of his Ambition..." sounds totally fucking natural in english, but still maintains the usage of the word "ambition" in a special way.

Do Demon Rin or the people wanting it to remain Haki honestly have a problem with that? It sounds like a perfect middle ground and still "sounds cool and special" but makes sense in english/is in english.

@Skull:

Exactly. Willpower and ambition do not have the same special kind of meaning that Haki does. Someone could easily glance over subs or scanlations with those words there and not really grasp the full impact of whats going on or why its important.

And I actually would call the Force from Star Wars a technique. Or at least an ability. Its a special thing that has to be learned with training that people use to do attacks and other things with. Thats what a technique IS.

But the thing is there may be a difference, you see some people had higher Midi-chlorian counts then others making them potential users, but haki may not be the same, it could be passed down through the bloodline and not abide inside everyone, but in small amounts of bloodlines that have carried it on.

Also to have Kings deposition makes me think its in their genes passed down through the bloodlines, after all the only D's we know are strong, and robin also said that all the D's she has encountered were special or something so it makes me believe that this maybe the case, maybe…...just maybe haki is passed on through families, this may explain the occurance of kings deposition, something similar to a gene passed on that randomly shows up every generation or so...........

Anyway this is pure speculation here but perhaps haki is only available to certain bloodlines, if this is the case then it would be different to the comparisons of 'the force'...as that lies within everyone

Skull Kid

@Ao:

Yeah, I think that's the best way to sum it u:
Haki isn't a technique on its own, it's a special ability.
The Force in Star Wars was a great analogy to understanding the usage in OP.

I agree with Brennen's post emphatically except there's no real reason to keep it in Japanese.
Ambition in quotes or Ambition Power is fine.

I disagree. It's obviously a technique going by what was said about it and how its used. Even if you want to call it a special ability, its the same thing and should keep its original name if all the other techniques and abilities are.

@John:

But the thing is there may be a difference, you see some people had higher Midi-chlorian counts then others making them potential users, but haki may not be the same, it could be passed down through the bloodline and not abide inside everyone, but in small amounts of bloodlines that have carried it on.

Also to have Kings deposition makes me think its in their genes passed down through the bloodlines, after all the only D's we know are strong, and robin also said that all the D's she has encountered were special or something so it makes me believe that this maybe the case, maybe…...just maybe haki is passed on through families, this may explain the occurance of kings deposition, something similar to a gene passed on that randomly shows up every generation or so...........

Anyway this is pure speculation here but perhaps haki is only available to certain bloodlines, if this is the case then it would be different to the comparisons of 'the force'...

The point of the debate is whether Haki should be considered a technique or special ability or not. You pointing out that only a handful of people can use it does nothing but help my argument.

Ao Kiji

I disagree. It's obviously a technique going by what was said about it and how its used. Even if you want to call it a special ability, its the same thing and should keep its original name if all the other techniques and abilities are.

A special ability is different than a technique. Luffy's special ability is his Rubber body. In translation, Luffy is using the power of his rubber body to attack people, not his gomu gomu no ken to attack them. Special attacks should be untranslated, abilities should be translated so you get some vague idea of how they work.

It's obviously a technique going by what was said about it and how its used.

A BURST of Haki is a technique. The Haki itself is the ability.

What special meaning is lost or problems are caused down the road by saying "He knocked them over with the power of his ambition"?

@Skull:

The point of the debate is whether Haki should be considered a technique or special ability or not. You pointing out that only a handful of people can use it does nothing but help my argument.

Yes, but what i was putting across is that if it is in bloodlines only then it shouldn't be classed as a technique, only the different applications it can be used for can be classified as techniques

Also i wasn't debating your posts, just letting you now that their may well be a difference if its to do with bloodlines…..

Do you understand what im saying yet?

If haki is in only certain bloodlines and not everyone, then its different, because if haki occurs naturally in you without some kind of training or exercise then, there is no specific way to muster it, therefore it is not a technique....

But if you have to go through something to gain haki then having haki alone is through a technique

the one thing we can be sure about is that all the different applications of haki (ie imbuing objects) are techniques, as they all require training to master........

the fact that it was mentioned that Luffy needed to learn control over it should signify that using haki requires training to stop any risks occurring, having haki alone wasn't the cause for this statement, only when he applied it to stopping the sisters using his voice/thoughts

Simply summary
-Having haki isn't a technique
-using haki in its different applications can be classed as techniques

silvers

Yes, Ao Kiji, online cookie for you for understanding :)

For those who haven't read manga for very long (Shmeckie's a given), here's a little common sense lesson for you. There are many concepts/phrases/ideas that are used by many manga artists. Those ideas are not originally their own, but they change it according to their styles.

Dragonball was one of the first to use the "Ki" idea, and they were fine until Vegeta. The original "Ki" (which is not a strange term in Japan, but Dragonball clearly got it from China, with names like Goku and… yeah you'd know if you've read it) is a spiritual energy that is said to be used by martial artists and Ancient Chinese doctors. The idea of "Body, Mind and Soul" (Body being the physical, mind being your thoughts, and soul being "chi") has been around for THOUSANDS of years.

The traditional idea of it was that "chi/qi/ki" is the power of the soul - which with proper training you can use to go beyond your normal physical capacities (martial arts) or quicken the healing process of others/self.

Here, I'll put it in bold so that even the retarded can understand:
NEVER, UNTIL DRAGONBALL, HAS IT BEEN THOUGHT OF AS A FUCKING BEAM!

By the looks of it, Haki is following a "ki" sort of pattern, BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL END UP WITH PEOPLE SHOOTING RANDOM BEAMS!

Strengthening bodies (tekai in One Piece) is still being trained in martial arts schools like Shaolin. Scaring away animals with your ki is a myth that has been there for some time (Oda is taking it one step further). For those who have no understanding of Asian culture, it really is difficult for you guys to understand this, and ignorant retards like Shmeckie translating Haki as Ambition and nothing else is understandable as well.

And for the last time, Haki is not a technique. You'd know if you've read more than 5 mangas. A spiritual energy source backing up a character's powers/abilities/techniques is common play in the realm of manga-drawing. I personally like how Oda is making this more of a "willpower"-related source, rather than one like Dragonball where you train enough and you get the power to blow up planets.

Captain Shmeckie

Haha, I made silvers mad at me. This amuses me greatly.

"Your despair feeds my power!"

Kinda funny how this has basically devolved into trying to find semantics in the dictionary, people who have no idea what English words mean, etc. I often forget how much fo this fanbase tends to prove this true…

Jadosra

So…
Haki is a retarded concept made by the Chineses that's not true?

Sure thing, I can handle that.

"Ambition power" it is

Demon Rin

@Joe:

This intrigues me into wondering how Funi will handle this 10 years from now when they get to Duval arc.

They've already handled it.
They're going contextually based on the scene, meaning the particular scene will determine what they say.
Example:
Blackbeard: I thought 30 million was too low for a kid that Bright-Eyed
Kaizoku Fansubs:
Blackbeard: I thought 30 million was too low for a Kid with that Much Ambition

Bottom line though, people know my stance so they won't trust me. They know my preference is to translate EVERYTHING, including Devil Fruits and what have you, so no matter what I say I won't change anyone's mind.
But Let me say this:
Stephen, The guy who does text Manga Translations.
Look here , This is the Chapter where Luffy fights Blueno with Gear 2nd. Notice, he leaves "Gomu Gomu" in Japanese (He removes the "No" however). He Leaves all of the Six Forms attacks in Japanese (You can see "Soru" in the beginning)
Now Look Here. A Translation who has been doing this series since the VERY BEGINNING, and The ONLY translatior doing this late in the series who HAS been here from the beginning. Someone who does NOT share my stance, who seems to leave EVERY attack in Japanese with a Note, decided "Haki" was to be translated out as "Ambition".
Remember, this is a Guy who translated EVERY bit of the series FROM THE BEGINNING, and so far has done EVERYTHING attack-wise the way Skull Kid likes it (Leaving attacks in Japanese) He Translates Shichibukai, but remember we're talking about attacks here.
And he feels Haki should be translated as Ambition.

Think about it this way. Luffy is Made of Rubber. you say that, Luffy is Made of Rubber or he's a "Rubber-man". Nobody says "Luffy is a Gomu-ningen" do they? Of course not! Every translator translates that out as "Rubber-man" or "Rubber-person". But THEN, when Luffy calls out "GOMU GOMU NO GATTLING!!" people leave Gomu Gomu, because NOW it's being used as an attack.
So far, NOBODY has Called out "HAKI BLAST!!" or "HAKI TECHNIQUE: ATTACK OF THE WHATEVER!!" And then done something. So far they're only TALKING about it. Like talking about Luffy's Rubber Body.
If someone actually eventually calls out "HAKI BLAST" then sure, it's an attack. but as of now' they've only been talking about it in concept the same way people would say Luffy is "Made of Rubber".

brennen.exe

@Demon:

tl;dr

Stop making things up. When Hatchan says, "They call that power "Ambition."", why does he say "call that power" unless "call" was referring to naming something and "that power" was a technique or ability?

Demon Rin

@brennen.exe:

Stop making things up. When Hatchan says, "They call that power "Ambition."", why does he say "call that power" unless "call" was referring to naming something and "that power" was a technique or ability?

Are you quoting a Scanlation or a Raw? Does he actually say "Kono Chikara"?
Show me that scene Raw so I know what was ACTUALLY said and we'll talk.

Truth

Probably been said already, but I don't think it's a technique as much as it is a means to achieve a technique. Like Ki or Chakra or whatever the hell you wanna compare it to. As far as I'm concerned, when Rayleigh, Shanks, Luffy, etc release their Haki and knock people out, you could call that a technique of sorts. That's all personal opinion though.

Captain Shmeckie

@brennen.exe:

Stop making things up. When Hatchan says, "They call that power "Ambition."", why does he say "call that power" unless "call" was referring to naming something and "that power" was a technique or ability?

Assuming that's actually what he says, in Japanese, you wnna know why he would say that?

They just saw him drop a shit load of guys with his will. What the fuck was that they just saw? Was it a power?! As we, and the characters, just saw it, it seemed like a power. Hachi explains that what we just saw was his ambition.

Oh, right, but we can't theorize over plain old ambition, though. Well damn…

brennen.exe

@Demon:

Are you quoting a Scanlation or a Raw? Does he actually say "Kono Chikara"?
Show me that scene Raw so I know what was ACTUALLY said and we'll talk.

I'm quoting Stephen. This guy: "a Guy who translated EVERY bit of the series FROM THE BEGINNING." I can dig up the raw if you want.

Demon Rin

You're quoting the guy who translated it as "Ambition" to argue why we SHOULDN'T translate it that way?
Yeah, GREAT argument there

brennen.exe

@Demon:

You're quoting the guy who translated it as "Ambition" to argue why we SHOULDN'T translate it that way?
Yeah, GREAT argument there

Don't dodge the question. Stephen has made mistakes, and Haki is a "common" Japanese/Chinese word. All I am asking is WHY, if it was obviously being used as a name to identify something, was it translated? I'm referring to either an ability or technique name (NOT ATTACK) like "karate", or a homophone/pun of sorts where it's the same word with a slightly different purpose and meaning in the fictional settings. (Which could be the reason for the quoting of it).

Captain Shmeckie

…Why did you put common in quotes?! It is common. Like how ambition is common.

kewl0210

Really, because we don't know what Haki is, like I said, it's hard to tell what to use.
The bottom line is if it's a proper noun you shouldn't translate it. If it's just what it literally means then you should. That's how people normally choose how to translate.

Since we don't really know if Haki is a technique/special talent/non-literal meaning thing you should just pick one way and hope it works out. But the "safe" way is to write "haki" so you don't end up with sentences later like:
"What is ambition?"
"Ambition? I have no idea what that is. I just got angry." etc.
But since it does seem to just be a manifestation of emotions, that sort of thing may not happen. So I think we should just pick and both are valid as of now until an explanation is given.

The arguement could go either way as to which it is, "it's infused with ambition" would make sense only if "haki" literally means "ambition". If it's non-literal, just a name for some special energy or something, then it doesn't make sense. It's like with "soru". Someone saying "I got past him without him seeing by shaving". (Soru translates to "shave") That would not make sense.

That's my 2 cents.

brennen.exe

@kewl0210:

Really, because we don't know what Haki is, like I said, it's hard to tell what it is. So I think we should just pick and both are valid as of now until an explanation is given.

Right. I agree. I just think we should keep both doors open for the time being. Not shut the door on one theory because "waa waa not dragon ballz!!"; it could be either. It's just that the nature of things seem to be pointing to an ability with all the exploits we have seen it cause. Which is why I am pro "Haki" instead of "ambition". Especially it's uses. Margaret's line, Hatchan's line, Rayleigh's line, and even Marco's line. They all suggest a proper noun, a name.

Ao Kiji

-Ahem-
Once again…Power of Ambition solves the problem and IS translating it into english.
This should please both groups.
Maybe Rin has me blocked or something, but do you or Brennen have a problem with "the power of his ambition" and simply Ambition Power?

"What is the power of ambition?"
"Power of Ambition? I have no idea what that is…I just got angry."
That makes sense in english and is less subtle to the reader. It conveys the sense that Ambition is something special in OP, which is the [only valid] argument for maintaining the term "Haki."

"Rayleigh is using his Ambition Power!"

Demon Rin

Ask Stephen Brennen. He's the one who translated it.
But think about it this way.
They should translate "Akuma no Mi" as Devil Fruit right?
They should translate "Nouryokushi" as "Ability User" right?
When they refer to an Ability user, an "Ability" in one piece is SPECIFICALLY talking about Devil Fruits, so why not treat THAT the same?
Ambition isn't an attack, it's like Devil Fruit Power. it's a power that's innately part of a person, and not a named attack.

kewl0210

My beef with "power of ambition" is you're turning 2 syllables into 7.

Also, with stuff like "you translate akuma no mi and nouryokusha" is because they mean literally what they are. "Haki" may not, and you may lose connotation by translating it trying to equate it to an english noun. The same as with attacks.

Demon Rin

@kewl0210:

My beef with "power of ambition" is you're turning 2 syllables into 7.

Also, with stuff like "you translate akuma no mi and nouryokusha" is because they mean literally what they are.

Thats countering the "Haki is a Proper Noun, so it should be left" argument

Ao Kiji

My beef with "power of ambition" is you're turning 2 syllables into 7.

Is that really a problem with subtitles? I don't think Haki is going to be something that needs to match a lip flap except for when the term is dubbed into English.

kewl0210

No, see they're not proper nouns in that they don't mean what they are. "akuma no mi" literally means "Devil's fruit". It's not like a name or a place where the words don't represent what they are and it doesn't lose any connotation by translating it. It's still usually capitalized since they're a major concept unique to the story. As for nouryokusha, "ability user" is literally what it means. The connotation of devil's fruit doesn't exist in the Japanese either except in context, people are literally saying they're users of abilities. Like how "mugiwara" reffers to Luffy's hat, despite it only literally meaning "straw" so people translate it as "strawhat". Sometimes people translate "nouryokusha" as "devil's fruit user" for the sake of clarity. If there were a word like "Akumasha" the it would be a proper noun as it means something specific.

Those translations don't lose connotation. If you hear "devil's fruit" it is clearly identifiable from other words. "Ambition" could not be, so you'd be safer to not translate it. There'll never be a context where you'd hear "devil's fruit" where it doesn't have the connotation of the specific OP thing. Whereas "ambition" could, therefore to make it clearly a proper noun, ya could keep it as untranslated.

That's all unrelated to how "haki" may not literally mean "ambition" in which case you lose connotation by writing "ambition" and such.

brennen.exe

@Demon:

They should translate "Akuma no Mi" as Devil Fruit right? They should translate "Nouryokushi" as "Ability User" right?

Not quite. Name's shouldn't be translated. People might translate them, but they shouldn't be translated. If they were, when I come from Germany to America people would call me Scorch and not Brennen. Certain proper nouns or names do get translated, but those are specific cases, like Grandma or Computer. Or in your cases, where something is being referred to that means exactly what it is. It isn't a name, just what the item is. Like a basketball for instance, that isn't a proper noun. A basketball is the same as a devil's fruit. An ability user is the same as a basketball player. I would never capitalize them, and would translate them. Names to art forms, special skills, family names, etc. shouldn't get translated. Surely you agree with me there? Anyway, here are some raws to look over:

Hachi's line:
[hide][/hide]

Shanks on Whitebeard's ship. Notice the ship railing cracking in the bottom right corner?? What's that all about? Even has a sound effect.
[hide][/hide]

Demon Rin

Ok, Hachi says nothing about Power, That was an Ad-lib on Stephen's Part
あれは確か”ハキ”ってやつだおれもよく知らねぇけど
Are wa tashika "Haki" tteyatsu da, ore mo yoku shira neekedo.
"That's Definitely [His] "Ambition", however it's something I don't know anything about Either"
And if you don't trust me, Ask Kewl, he'll confirm it

Hachi doesn't mention "Power" at all, and he also turns himself into an Unreliable source by SAYING he knows nothing about it.

as for the Whitebeard scene.
You don't prove ANYTHING with that. It's the Sheer force of Shanks' Ambition. In the One Piece world, The power of one's Ambition and dreams is THAT strong.
That's why when someone asked Oda why Luffy never kills his opponents in an SBS, Oda responded "because he Crushes their Dreams, which in the One Piece world is a Fate worse than Death"
Ambition MEANS exactly what it says. It's the force of the Character's Ambition that they can harness and use in battle. It's not an attack, it's an innate part of the person.
In the One Piece World, Oda has Just put THAT much stake into a character's Dreams and Ambitions where they've taken on that kind of weight.

brennen.exe

@Demon:

Hachi doesn't mention "Power" at all, and he also turns himself into an Unreliable source by SAYING he knows nothing about it. You don't prove ANYTHING with that.

I'm not trying to "prove" anything. I am just suggesting another possibility, that Oda intends for it to be more than just "a word". More than just "your dreams take you that far". The way Hachi is referring to it – credible 'source' or not -- was Oda's way of naming something the Strawhat crew (readers as well) was freaking out about. Chopper seems to be saying something like he used magic right?And even you just now ad-lib'd yourself by assuming "his" should be tossed in there. "His" would be making Haki -- or in your case ambition -- possessive, meaning something he owns or something that is part of him, no? So unless I am mistaken on that, and "his" was part of the sentence, aren't you already soliciting your bias? Think about it without "his", you get, "That's definitely "_______"". Think about what he is responding to: Chopper/Usopp's comment about what had just happened, or what Rayleigh had just used. As in, "what was that magic just now?" – "That was definitely _____; I don't know much about it either". Wow, Hachi is pretty dumb if he doesn't know much about a "common" word.

So, something happened. People freaked. Hachi answered vaguely, but said he doesn't know much about it, just what it was. (Just the name). If it was just Rayleigh's ambition, or dream as you say, what would Hachi not "know anything about"?

Demon Rin

He just doesn't understand the concept of intimidating people with the sheer force of your ambition

brennen.exe

@Demon:

He just doesn't understand the concept of intimidating people with the sheer force of your ambition

And the arrows on Amazon Lily?

Preston is a Pirate

From what I can tell it's NOT a technique but it IS an ability.

Using it in specific manners though would be techniques but they'd be their own individual techniques. Like putting haki into arrows is a technique wherein you shoot haki arrows, but the haki itself seems like more of a power/force than a technique.

Demon Rin

Preston is right on the Money.
The Force in question however is the sheer force of One's Ambition, their Dream, Their Desire to achieve their goals.
In The One Piece world, That is a VERY important concept, so therefore it can be used to do things like this.

Captain Shmeckie

@Demon:

The Force in question however is the sheer force of One's Ambition, their Dream, Their Desire to achieve their goals.
In The One Piece world, That is a VERY important concept, so therefore it can be used to do things like this.

Simplest concept ever. Or is it?!

DAH-NAAAAAH!!! Wait, this is a One Piece forum…

DON!!!!!

Elastic_Swindler

With my limited understanding of Eastern culture and Japanese language, I've understood "Haki" as OP's version of the good old "Ki" used throughout the ages. An Oda-ism that takes a traditional thing and adds the dreams and ambitions layer to it.

The specific applications of this "Haki" have been more or less spelled out as special techniques. That page from chapter 519, which has been quoted in this thread already, has the Kuja pirate say "…今の…！！　「覇王色」の覇気…！！" which I can't understand as anything else but a more special technique of "Haki" having taken place.

Whether or not "Haki" itself is a special technique - I don't think it makes a difference.

Jadosra

Demon Rin, you're right about everything you said, except one thing I'm curious to.

Answer to this post, please:

@brennen.exe:

And the arrows on Amazon Lily?

wolfPack

To those that believe that Haki is simply "ambition", I have one question (not to be an ass, I really want to know your thoughts on this):

How is it that Rayleigh, whose current "ambition" is to be left alone so he can live a peaceful life, can still use Haki? I don't think that "ambition to be left alone" was enough to knock out all those people in the auction place (whatever it was called).