Personally, I don't see what all the hubbub about Ace being kept in Level 6 is. The newspapers never said "Whitebeard's 2nd Commander 'Fire Fist' Ace is being held in Level #6 of Impel Down", It just said that he was being held in Impel Down. Really, there's no reason to announce which level of a prison someone is being held on. Especially when one of the largest and most powerful pirate armadas is headed straight for you.
@__Aohige__: Is that trick for Atari?
oldbum is old.
I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh
@_Meh_:
@Aohige: Is that trick for Atari?
No, it's the oldest method of unlocking the World 9-1 and on in the original Nintendo famicom Super Mario Bros.
It used to be an urban myth and kids would argue about the existence of World 9-1 through 9-4. That urban myth was started by a guy who reported a lightning surge at home caused his mario to get there, took pictures of it, and submitted to the famicom magazine running at the time.
Then people started reporting that by swapping cartridge with Nintendo Tennis, they could replicate the same situation. But others reported they tried, and they never could get it to work… further causing arguments. I tried it myself back then too, and never could get it to work.. although I could get data errors on other games like Mario Bros, causing bugged out stages to appear.
This urban legend, interestingly enough, was proven true in later years, when there were easier methods of causing data errors (with stuff like family basic programming kits and game genie like address swap tools), revealing that you could get to 256 stages by causing this bug.
The argument over level 6 hoopla reminded me of those days. 
^^^ how old are you????
And last but not least, with all Crocodile has done, he really is somebody the WG would be interested in having erased from history respectively have to be forgotten. He used his status to take over a country (which is part of the WG) and even worse try to revive Pluton. Thus he made the WG look like fools for trusting him and giving a guy like him the opportunity to put this plan to motion. It's not like this is a sort of criminal you catch every day. Even if the bounty is low he deserves to be at the place where the worst scum is being kept.
Hmm i was always wondering if the marines knew he was trying to revive pluton on alabasta? Or were only Cobra and Robin aware of this? And how will the Marines/Government react if they know that Alabasta has a poneglyph? I mean that's an argument against the prediction that Cobra would tell the marines/government about crocs plan. Cause then the marines will surely ask the question: Why did he tried do it at alabasta? And that will lead to investigations. Thus said i really don't know if the marines knew crocs plan.
Awesome. Just awesome. Hurray for Oda taking a predictable situation and turning it on its head.
Actually Mr. 2's DF allows him to copy the users whole body, not just the face
Body? As in body, body? Yes. But not clothes or accessories.
So you think that Jinbei with a former bounty of 250 million is being kept on Level 4 instead? Would be a foolish thing to do so for the WG. Bounty-wise one guy is at the wrong place and security wise it makes more sense to keep the lower bounty at a higher security level then the higher bounty on a lower security level. ;)
Other than that IMO his Shichibukai status does grant him the privilege to be an exception. After all, the Shichibukai are one of the three powers that keep the world in balance. The Gorosei set themselves that the open spot Crocodile left could make the world fall apart. That alone should prove how his status is more important then his bounty.
And last but not least, with all Crocodile has done, he really is somebody the WG would be interested in having erased from history respectively have to be forgotten. He used his status to take over a country (which is part of the WG) and even worse try to revive Pluton. Thus he made the WG look like fools for trusting him and giving a guy like him the opportunity to put this plan to motion. It's not like this is a sort of criminal you catch every day. Even if the bounty is low he deserves to be at the place where the worst scum is being kept.
You missed the point. It's understandable for his former shickibukai status to upgrade him to level 5 but all the way to level 6? Jinbei was placed in Impel Down to cool his head off. I think people are really underestimating the sheer significance and terror of level 6 and I expect it to be teated with much more suspense and built up much more rather than nonchalantly zoom in on people who are already in that cell. And none of the people in Ace's level looked special enough to warrant having been erased from history. Level 6 should either be a level for real demons or smart people who know too much that the World Government wish didn;t exist and those cat-calling ruffians fit neither profile.
I'd rather him be in the place that makes the most sense. Putting him in a secret prison when his imprisonment isn't meant to be a secret (quite the opposite, in fact) doesn't make a lot of sense.
The thing is though that according to that logic nobody would fit in such a place. Yes, Crocodile's imprisonment is public knowledge so it's quite the opposite to being a secret. But that counts for whoever else get's imprisoned there.
A fellow board member said a while ago that this erased from history works better with a former Admiral who crossed the WG or a former Yonkoh, whom we didn't hear from yet because they were erased from history. But the thing with that argument is, that it also starts out just the same as with Crocodile. I mean aren't guys like Aokiji, Kizaru, Akainu, Whitebeard, Shanks and Kaidoh well known through the world? If Whitebeard or Akainu (if he'd cross the WG Croc. style) would be imprisoned, they are not forgotten from one day to the other right? So the same would apply to guys who previously held that status. And the same thing would apply to any notorious criminal that goes to the deepest level. They are not forgotten immediately. Just like the say "a journey of thousand miles begins with the first step" implies the erasing from history takes time. That's that about the "erased from history" statement.
And an even more important point about that entire secret level stuff is to actually realize where it came from. It came from Buggy who never went deeper then Level 4. Furthermore he said that it's a rumor among the prisoners which actually is the important point. Prisoners in the first 4 levels will think that guys like Ace, Jinbei and Crocodile would be at Level 5 because of their status and high bounty. They have no reason to think otherwise. But when prisoners of Level 5 see that such notorious criminals are not on the same level as themselves they begin to wonder where they would be. Obviously they are not kept on the higher levels because of their status so they could be only deeper. And that's line of thought is the ideal basic for building up rumors, which then spread.
So even if the levels existance is a secret, there definitely is a plausible reason where the speculation on its existence can come from. I mean these forums should be a prime example of how speculations work. Don't see any reason why prisoners who don't have much more left to do with their time shouldn't begin to wonder and speculate themselves when they witness that big criminals that are said to be imprisoned are not among them. Any good prison movie supports that idea.
@Thousand:
You missed the point. It's understandable for his former shickibukai status to upgrade him to level 5 but all the way to level 6? Jinbei was placed in Impel Down to cool his head off. I think people are really underestimating the sheer significance and terror of level 6 and I expect it to be teated with much more suspense and built up much more rather than nonchalantly zoom in on people who are already in that cell. And none of the people in Ace's level looked special enough to warrant having been erased from history. Level 6 should either be a level for real demons or smart people who know too much that the World Government wish didn;t exist and those cat-calling ruffians fit neither profile.
I completely agree with everything in this post. Why would the marines put someone who is still a shishibukai at level 6 where everybody imprisoned has done something or is so terryfing that the WB wants to erase them from everybodies mind?
If the government wants to erase them why would they take the risk to help jimbei seeing them? Isn't level 5 scaring enough?
On the other hand level 6 can also have an execution chamber where they kill you after x hours. I mean if you are on level 6 then noone would see you again right? So that means they can also kill you or make some weird experiences with your body…
I completely agree with everything in this post. Why would the marines put someone who is still a shishibukai at level 6 where everybody imprisoned has done something or is so terryfing that the WB wants to erase them from everybodies mind?
The fact is though that he is on the same level as Ace. I mean that's a friggin' Whitebeard Pirate we're talking about here. Wasn't it stated several times in the story before Luffy reached ID that this is the single most important prisoner the WG is holding keptive right now? And you seriously expect this guy to be on the higher levels we've seen so far?
Furthermore other than Ace, Crocodile is on the same Level aswell. And I think I've stated my case clearly why he's a very special criminal too. And let's not forget that the higher the BW rank, the deeper the level you're imprisoned is. Mr. 3 was at Level 2, Mr. 2 at Level 3 and Mr. 1 at Level 4. So by that logic it is already set in stone that Mr. 0 is deeper then Level 4. And since Level 5 is a freezing hell and the place where Ace, Jinbei and Croc. are kept looks nothing like that he can go only deeper, but at no way higher.
As to Jinbei still being a Shichibukai. Remember that the WG threatens him to strip him off his status. If that happens he's just a regular pirate again and would be kept at Impel Down for ever. So him being there where he is now is also the WG playing mindgames in the sort of "this is what you'll get if you're not playing by our rules".
The fact is though that he is on the same level as Ace. I mean that's a friggin' Whitebeard Pirate we're talking about here. Wasn't it stated several times in the story before Luffy reached ID that this is the single most important prisoner the WG is holding keptive right now? And you seriously expect this guy to be on the higher levels we've seen so far?
i expect ace to be at level 5. The main argument you have is that with the introduction of the freezing hell there is no more room for my expectation. But what is with that picture of level 5 where there is no ice at all? Oda made an error?
Furthermore other than Ace, Crocodile is on the same Level aswell. And I think I've stated my case clearly why he's a very special criminal too. And let's not forget that the higher the BW rank, the deeper the level you're imprisoned is. Mr. 3 was at Level 2, Mr. 2 at Level 3 and Mr. 1 at Level 4. So by that logic it is already set in stone that Mr. 0 is deeper then Level 4. And since Level 5 is a freezing hell and the place where Ace, Jinbei and Croc. are kept looks nothing like that he can go only deeper, but at no way higher.
Crocodile isn't so special anymore if my theory still stands that the government doesn't really know about his plan to build pluton.
And ok being a shishibukai means a direct ticket for level 6? I mean isn't that too much after hearing the hype around level 6? I mean yes the shishibukais means politically so much. But when you look at the facts luffy can be a shishibukai. Now luffy was put at level 5. I mean i don't understand. But puting someone at level 6 only because he is a shishibukai (a position that means so much to the gorousei) is imo lame… (and i say that because i really don't understand their political views. And i see a real problem between this view that is so great and the facts we have now. People that are as strong as the shishibukais are hanbled differently then them only because of that title "shishibukai")
As to Jinbei still being a Shichibukai. Remember that the WG threatens him to strip him off his status. If that happens he's just a regular pirate again and would be kept at Impel Down for ever. So him being there where he is now is also the WG playing mindgames in the sort of "this is what you'll get if you're not playing by our rules".
Yes but my point still stands. Everyone on level 6 is meant to be forget yes? Then if Jimbei decides to help the marines and and stays as a shishibukai he will become free yes? As he is still a pirate he can inform the world about prisoners down there if he recognize some of them. And that would be bad for the government since they want everyone on that level to be erased….
Why all this speculation about lv6?
So far we have to reasons?
The level doesn't look cold?
The first time we saw level 5 was in chapter 525, Right? Link.
When we see pictures from ace's level, it says "The level where ace is being kept"?
This is only making it more exciting, but not proving any thing…
Do any of you ever look into your own freezer? Nah, cus then the snow stom will blow into your head...
People keep speculating on things without proves... I'm not saying it's imposseble,
but...
i expect ace to be at level 5. The main argument you have is that with the introduction of the freezing hell there is no more room for my expectation. But what is with that picture of level 5 where there is no ice at all? Oda made an error?
No my main argument is he is the "single most important prisoner the WG is holding keptive" as stated in the manga. Whatever the deepest level might be it would lack any sense to have a guy discribed as that to be a level above it.
Crocodile isn't so special anymore if my theory still stands that the government doesn't really know about his plan to build pluton.
Oh I think the WG is pretty much aware that he planned something along the lines. They are quite good on researching stuff if they set their eyes on it. They only had no reason to do so beforehand since they trusted Croc. But once he betrayed them you can bet on it that everything went through a thorough investigation. And the WG will most devinitely investigate it since Nico Robin was invovled. Remember that Smoker was very troubled because of her involvement. And he's the guy that reported it. Furthermore Cobra, a king that has a seat in the WG directly witnessed that Crocodile wanted to revive Pluton. There's no way that the WG doesn't know what Crocodile planned.
And ok being a shishibukai means a direct ticket for level 6? I mean isn't that too much after hearing the hype around level 6? I mean yes the shishibukais means politically so much. But when you look at the facts luffy can be a shishibukai. Now luffy was put at level 5. I mean i don't understand. But puting someone at level 6 only because he is a shishibukai (a position that means so much to the gorousei) is imo lame…
No it's not because (I don't know how often I need to repeat it) a Shichibukai is one of the three great powers. True a Yonkoh might be even more dangerous BUT the thing is a Yonkoh is also one of the same three powers. Do you really think there's so many guys in the OP world above three great powers status to fill a complete level at Impel Down? If that would really apply then the hype for the three great powers is ruined.
Yes but my point still stands. Everyone on level 6 is meant to be forget yes? Then if Jimbei decides to help the marines and and stays as a shishibukai he will become free yes? As he is still a pirate he can inform the world about prisoners down there if he recognize some of them. And that would be bad for the government since they want everyone on that level to be erased….
The key word here is trust. If the WG wouldn't trust him, then they wouldn't grant him the status of being a Shichibukai from the getgo. And I think people really take the "erased from history" statement to seriously. I mean do you think the normal people in the OP world give a rat's ass about such a level at Impel Down. I'm sure that most people don't even know that there are different kinds of hell there. All that matters to them is that there's what they consider to be scum at Impel Down. Nobody would care for the specifics.
Oh but even the marines themself don't trust the shishibukais so much… And you're looking on the world balance like the gorousei... I bet if luffy is able to stop 2 shishibukais then there are people out there that are able to do it? Would these people be imprisoned at level 5 or at level 6? It's ridiculous to think that a title means so much because the gorousei said so... My view on the shishibukais:
They are there to help the marines stopping the number of pirates on the grand line from growing to a point they can't handle it anymore. From the facts we have now (and please try to forget what a shishibukai means) there are people stronger than crocodile now and they where imprisoned at level 5. And that's what doesn't make sense to me.
And if you want to hear it yes i think the yonkou the shishibukais and the marines are bying overhyped. That's common in politics to do it. If people are scared from these powers they won't go against it since the gorouseis view is that those 3 powers must stay in balance.
And i don't think cobra would tell the government about pluton since he has a poneglyph in his country. The government will ask why he hide it there. And that will mean big problems.
EDIT: if you just take the facts from the WG then yes your points are all correct. But i have a different view on the OP world. It isn't as easy as the WG says...
The thing is though that the Gorosei themselves believe in the Shichibukai and that they have special status because of that. True Luffy beat them up but Luffy is the reckless guy who also invaded Enies Lobby, knocked a Tenryubito out and is right now punching his way through Impel Down. He's most definitely not your everyday pirate and from our point of view he's even more since we know he's going to be Pirate King at some point. So him taking out Shichibukai is not your everyday event in the OP world. Let's not forget that with all those other rookies like Kid, Drake, Hawkins or Law all the other Shichibukai remain untouched.
And I repeat, it doesn't matter that guys like Smoker don't trust them or that Luffy took some out. They still are are one of the three great powers. Nothing will change the fact that this is the status they are still holding.
EDIT: if you just take the facts from the WG then yes your points are all correct. But i have a different view on the OP world. It isn't as easy as the WG says…
The thing is thought that the view of the WG is that what matters because it's them who determine who's a criminal and not us. That's how the OP world is built up. ;)
And I repeat, it doesn't matter that guys like Smoker don't trust them or that Luffy took some out. They still are are one of the three great powers. Nothing will change the fact that this is the status they are still holding.
The thing is thought that the view of the WG is that what matters because it's them who determine who's a criminal and not us. That's how the OP world is built up. ;)
Isn't that interesting that a rookie who has done so much damage to the WG and the world powers isn't level 6 material?
EDIT: Though i'm wondering at which level the marines would have put luffy. Obviously he is at level 5 cause Magellan doesn't want him to see Ace…
On the other hand it doesn't really matter if he sees ace or not he will die/or go through hell. hmm...
Take a good look of this picture(First picture) http://img60.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000112902/10-11.jpg
I don’t think this is level 5.
Because
1. The prisoners don’t look at all like they are worth more than 100 mill.
2. I think L-5 2660 means just a cell number.
3. This level don’t have any ice its not the same 5 level we so here (Second Picture) http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/535/14/
4.I don’t think Oda make so big mistake that he forget about Freezing Heel in the first picture and fix it in the second picture.
The first picture its not lvl 5
1.In the first picture if L-5 means level 5, than Oda have made a little mistake with the cell number.
2. Why the hell there is ice and its cold in the second picture and in the first picture its not.? That’s means the first picture its not level 5, maybe lvl 3-4 or 6
3.I don’t think the minotaur in the first picture will go around in lvl 1-2 and kick the ass of prisoners (or am wrong?)If i was the minotaur i would go to lvl 4-6 and kick the ass of people there not of some little fishes in lvl 1-3 .That means it have to be lvl 4 or 6, not 5 because its not that cold in the first picture.
4. I don’t think they have made like this , that in level 5 its very cold every place but they have made a place in lvl 5 where its not cold, that’s is just a stupid idea. Its like how can u make a room with ice in lvl 4? .And u cant see anywhere ice is melting.
Ace have to be in lvl 6 cuz like all people said its not cold in ace cell or anywhere.
The first picture can’t be lvl 5. For me its more like 4 or 6 or lower than 4.
The first picture is lvl 5.
Because Oda is so amazing he did something like a place in lvl 5 where its not cold, then the first picture is actually correct, its a place in lvl 5(because how can Oda make mistake like that).But only Oda knows that .
That’s what I think. Just wait to next week and maybe we will get an answer.
Isn't that interesting that a rookie who has done so much damage to the WG and the world powers isn't level 6 material?
Well should actually be even more support how focused the WG is on the world view they've made up themselves. Luffy might be a rookie but his recklesness is exceptional. However it almost is a gimmick that Luffy gets taken too lightly still.
As far as the "the prisoners don't look like Level X material" argument which I've seen in several posts so far is concerned: I think you guys need to understand that the vast majority of prisoners at any level will have a generic design. The guys that stick out personality and plot wise will be the ones with a more appealing design. You can't expect Oda to have a kickass design for every single nobody in the background. I mean did any of the unnamed prisoners at the different levels stand out designwise? Did Level 1 prisoners have a design matching Buggy's uniqueness? Did Level 2 prisoners have a design that compares to Galdino? Did those guys on Level 3 compare to Bentham design-wise? Does anybody on Level 4 look lesser generic then those guys at the previous 3 levels? Do those two frozen guys at Level 5 look as if they compare to one of the rookies design-wise? So how come people expect the top notch designs for the lowest level?
Besides, as far as my personal take is concerned, some of these guys appear lesser generic designwise then what we've seen on Levels 1 - 5 so far. Let's not forget that every level of ID is a hell of some sort so the special rumored level(s) are definitely no exception. So whatever kind of hell it is, those guys look actually still tough considering the circumstances. That should also speak for something if people care that much about irrelevant stuff like designs for generic characters.
i found this chao really intresting!
Well should actually be even more support how focused the WG is on the world view they've made up themselves. Luffy might be a rookie but his recklesness is exceptional. However it almost is a gimmick that Luffy gets taken too lightly still.
As far as the "the prisoners don't look like Level X material" argument which I've seen in several posts so far is concerned: I think you guys need to understand that the vast majority of prisoners at any level will have a generic design. The guys that stick out personality and plot wise will be the ones with a more appealing design. You can't expect Oda to have a kickass design for every single nobody in the background. I mean did any of the unnamed prisoners at the different levels stand out designwise? Did Level 1 prisoners have a design matching Buggy's uniqueness? Did Level 2 prisoners have a design that compares to Galdino? Did those guys on Level 3 compare to Bentham design-wise? Does anybody on Level 4 look lesser generic then those guys at the previous 3 levels? Do those two frozen guys at Level 5 look as if they compare to one of the rookies design-wise? So how come people expect the top notch designs for the lowest level?
Besides, as far as my personal take is concerned, some of these guys appear lesser generic designwise then what we've seen on Levels 1 - 5 so far. Let's not forget that every level of ID is a hell of some sort so the special rumored level(s) are definitely no exception. So whatever kind of hell it is, those guys look actually still tough considering the circumstances. That should also speak for something if people care that much about irrelevant stuff like designs for generic characters.
Level 6 is for the worst demons in history. No matter how you look at it, they should be far more threatening and have much more impact to the story.
imo ace is on level 5. i think someone has already mentioned this before but there can be different areas of a level, for example the spiky forest in level 1. Luffy is in the central tower, theres no saying what the rest of the floor is like really.
Secondly, Ace asked the guards what is happening upstairs, clearly referring to level 4 (btw this kinda destroys all theories about ace being on level 1-4, which never made any sense anyway) Would Ace be able to hear that anything was going on 2 whole floors away? So probably no level 6?
Crocodile is on the same level as Ace, as we all know, and there is little justification for him being on level 6 or anything. I know this doesnt mean everything but he didnt even have a 100 million bounty. Yeah he was a threat to the WG but being on level 6 instead of level 5 is not that important in his case. Its not like the WG thinks he has a chance of escaping level 5, no matter how much of a threat he was. He wasnt such a potential threat because of his strength, only his cunning. (hes nothing special compared to the big players) Why the WG would feel the need to put him anywhere more secure than level 5 is beyond me.
And Ivotas, were you're suggesting that the WG still trust Jimbei? (enough for this whole 'intending people to be forgotten' argument to still stand) I mean, he did kinda go on a rampage against the WG. They wouldnt trust him enough not to tell people about ID after he got released. The WG doesn't always trust the pirates it appoints as schichibukai, that doesnt hold water. They appointed BB as a shichibukai almost as soon as they knew he was strong enough to defeat Ace, as soon as his name could spread as such a powerful person to do this. Its pretty obvious that BB has no loyalty to WG and was just after the title to further his own plans.
Yeah this post is a lil long winded but hopefully all my points came across fine.
@Thousand:
Level 6 is for the worst demons in history. No matter how you look at it, they should be far more threatening and have much more impact to the story.
I repeat, such a label is WG propaganda. I seriously doubt that we'll see an entire level full of non-generic characters of unique awesomeness.
@Thousand:
From my experience in One Piece, when something is built up to be the worst of the worst, it lives up to its reputation and thensome.
Yeah, but at the same time my experience in One Piece says that guys who live up to such a huge hype come in small numbers and not in huge masses. I guarantee you that you'll be disappointed if you expect to see every single one of the deepest level prisoners to live up to the hype.
Oh but even the marines themself don't trust the shishibukais so much… And you're looking on the world balance like the gorousei... I bet if luffy is able to stop 2 shishibukais then there are people out there that are able to do it? Would these people be imprisoned at level 5 or at level 6? It's ridiculous to think that a title means so much because the gorousei said so... My view on the shishibukais:
They are there to help the marines stopping the number of pirates on the grand line from growing to a point they can't handle it anymore. From the facts we have now (and please try to forget what a shishibukai means) there are people stronger than crocodile now and they where imprisoned at level 5. And that's what doesn't make sense to me.
And if you want to hear it yes i think the yonkou the shishibukais and the marines are bying overhyped. That's common in politics to do it. If people are scared from these powers they won't go against it since the gorouseis view is that those 3 powers must stay in balance.
And i don't think cobra would tell the government about pluton since he has a poneglyph in his country. The government will ask why he hide it there. And that will mean big problems.EDIT: if you just take the facts from the WG then yes your points are all correct. But i have a different view on the OP world. It isn't as easy as the WG says...
Once again, normal OP fan attitude.
Look, bro, Luffy did defeat those 2 Shichibukais by PURE LUCK.
Crocodile underestimated him and Moria not only underestimated him as it was needed that fucking huge mast to defeat him, even after the Nightmare Storm.
The Shichibukai's are very powerful, the reason why Luffy defeated them is because he's a rookie that had very luck, help from a lot of guys, and some strenght.
The thing is though that the Gorosei themselves believe in the Shichibukai and that they have special status because of that. True Luffy beat them up but Luffy is the reckless guy who also invaded Enies Lobby, knocked a Tenryubito out and is right now punching his way through Impel Down. He's most definitely not your everyday pirate and from our point of view he's even more since we know he's going to be Pirate King at some point. So him taking out Shichibukai is not your everyday event in the OP world. Let's not forget that with all those other rookies like Kid, Drake, Hawkins or Law all the other Shichibukai remain untouched.
And I repeat, it doesn't matter that guys like Smoker don't trust them or that Luffy took some out. They still are are one of the three great powers. Nothing will change the fact that this is the status they are still holding.
The thing is thought that the view of the WG is that what matters because it's them who determine who's a criminal and not us. That's how the OP world is built up. ;)
Luffy is not an Everyday pirate in personality, but he's pretty much weak when compared to pretty much 80% of the New World and even 50% of the second half of the Grand Line.
Also:
imo ace is on level 5. i think someone has already mentioned this before but there can be different areas of a level, for example the spiky forest in level 1. Luffy is in the central tower, theres no saying what the rest of the floor is like really.
Secondly, Ace asked the guards what is happening upstairs, clearly referring to level 4 (btw this kinda destroys all theories about ace being on level 1-4, which never made any sense anyway) Would Ace be able to hear what was going on 2 whole floors away?Crocodile is on the same level as Ace, as we all know, and there is little justification for him being on level 6 or anything. I know this doesnt mean everything but he didnt even have a 100 million bounty. Yeah he was a threat to the WG but being on level 6 instead of level 5 is not that important in his case. Its not like the WG thinks he has a chance of escaping level 5, no matter how much of a threat he was. He wasnt such a potential threat because of his strength, only his cunning. (hes nothing special compared to the big players) Why the WG would feel the need to put him anywhere more secure than level 5 is beyond me.
And Ivotas, were you're suggesting that the WG still trust Jimbei? (enough for this whole 'intending people to be forgotten' argument to still stand) I mean, he did kinda go on a rampage against the WG. They wouldnt trust him enough not to tell people about ID after he got released. The WG doesn't always trust the pirates it appoints as schichibukai, that doesnt hold water. They appointed BB as a shichibukai almost as soon as they knew he was strong enough to defeat Ace, as soon as his name could spread as such a powerful person to do this. Its pretty obvious that BB has no loyalty to WG and was just after the title to further his own plans.
Yeah this post is a lil long winded but hopefully all my points came across fine.
This point which most of us (at least me) didn't notice pretty much proves that Ace is in level 5, so forget it.
Also, Ivotas, the newspapers mentioned Ace as the worse, but if Level 6 was indeed for secret criminals, the newspapers wouldn't mention them, right?
@Maase:
This point which most of us (at least me) didn't notice pretty much proves that Ace is in level 5, so forget it.
He asked that because he knows that Luffy is at Impel Down right now. Even if Luffy'd still be at Level 1 he'd still ask that question so it doesn't make difference.
Also, Ivotas, the newspapers mentioned Ace as the worse, but if Level 6 was indeed for secret criminals, the newspapers wouldn't mention them, right?
Wrong because Ace is sceduled for public execution and isn't meant to be erased from history by staying at ID for the rest of his life. But since all those monsters are set to be kept on that level it apparently is designed to hold the worst of the worst keptive, which is why you'd stick someone of Ace's status exactly there until you move him to Marineford.
yeah thinking more about ace asking the guards, he is pretty much definitely on level 5. no point arguing further on it, at least with current information xD
Ever watched One Piece on acid? it's pretty sweet.
What the…? I actually really like that idea and it really would fit Oda's foreshadowing style.^^
Great Effort Ivotas, but it seems you're preaching to a group that doesn't understand the dynamics of world politics.
The only valid argument for Ace being in Level 5 at this time should be that perhaps L-5 has different sections. For example, say Ace is being held in a some-what of a solitary confinement, and it's not freezing like most of L-5 Freezing Hell. Maybe this point can be backed up by the picture that showed the Minotaur putting the prisoners in L-5 Cell XYZA (forgot the number, too lazy to look it up)
To argue that Crocodile doesn't belong on the same level as Ace and Jinbei is again something that doesn't make sense. Just because Crocodile didn't have an "official" bounty of > 100M (which he would have, as stated in the SBS by Oda, that had he been an active pirate, he bounty would have been at least double what it was). Crocodile was one of the Shichibukai, a title established by the World Government themselves to show how threatening this character really is to the world.
As for the argument about everyone knowing that Ace and Crocodile are locked up in Impel Down…. so what! This has nothing to do with the security level needed to keep these types of criminals apprehended. After capturing Bin Landen, would you keep him in a minimum security prison????
The point about the "generic" look of the prisoners on the same level as Ace, Crocodile, and Jinbei is really adolescent. Are you really expecting Oda to spend the energy to make every single face look menacing and criminal? It's like Ivotas has already stated. You can expect that which every character will be used to aide or antagonise the main cast will have more detail that someone who may only be seen for one or two panels.
WARNING (Explicit Dialog)!!
yeah thinking more about ace asking the guards, he is pretty much definitely on level 5. no point arguing further on it, at least with current information xD
What current information? He was asking what's going up above. Do you actually understand how vague that of a statement is? If you're at Level 2 above is Level 1. If you're at Level 3 above is Level 1+2. If you're in Level 4 above is Levels 1 - 3 and so on. I find it funny how people pay that much attention to a vague statement but ignore the clarified statement that Level 5 is labeled as Freezing Hell by the author himself in this very chapter. Talk about twisting facts only to support ones impression.
I expect level 6 prisoners to be treated with much more significance and I expect that their mere presence would be earth-shattering to the story either by their power or what they know and I expect more build up rather than displaying random fodder prisoners who did not have an impressive introduction.
@Maase:
Once again, normal OP fan attitude.
Look, bro, Luffy did defeat those 2 Shichibukais by PURE LUCK.
Crocodile underestimated him and Moria not only underestimated him as it was needed that fucking huge mast to defeat him, even after the Nightmare Storm.The Shichibukai's are very powerful, the reason why Luffy defeated them is because he's a rookie that had very luck, help from a lot of guys, and some strenght.
Actually, MagneticMonkey's quote and this one are both common OP fan attitude. Two sides of the same coin really.
And it was more like "some luck," but "pure luck."
Luffy is not an Everyday pirate in personality, but he's pretty much weak when compared to pretty much 80% of the New World and even 50% of the second half of the Grand Line.
A little extreme, but yeah probably.
@Thousand:
I expect level 6 prisoners to be treated with much more significance and I expect that their mere presence would be earth-shattering to the story either by their power or what they know and I expect more build up rather than displaying random fodder prisoners who did not have an impressive introduction.
So you want Oda to spend time giving details and back story to every single prisoner on Level 6? Well, why not? It's not like there's anything else going on in One Piece right now that's more important. Who cares about the other Strawhats, or about the war about to start between Whitebeard and the World Government. Let's get every prisoner on the assumed Level 6 detailed and represented. I say we start a petition.
WARNING (Explicit Dialog)!!
So you want Oda to spend time giving details and back story to every single prisoner on Level 6? Well, why not? It's not like there's anything else going on in One Piece right now that's more important. Who cares about the other Strawhats, or about the war about to start between Whitebeard and the World Government. Let's get every prisoner on the assumed Level 6 detailed and represented. I say we start a petition.
Well played freedom. Sometimes I think that people expect exactly that to happen. Another fun fact is that nearly nobody makes mention of a Level 7. Notice how I never said Level 6 but always deepest level when I'm speaking of the place where Ace is? ;)
@Thousand:
I expect level 6 prisoners to be treated with much more significance and I expect that their mere presence would be earth-shattering to the story either by their power or what they know and I expect more build up rather than displaying random fodder prisoners who did not have an impressive introduction.
This isn't the 1st time Oda did this, just take a look at Whitebeard's crew, the only crew men who look menacing or non fodder are Whitebeard's 1st division captain Marco 2nd captain Ace and 3rd Jozo, along with the dead 4th division captain. The rest are pretty much canon fodder, with looks to match.
He asked that because he knows that Luffy is at Impel Down right now. Even if Luffy'd still be at Level 1 he'd still ask that question so it doesn't make difference.
heh i overlooked that bit about Ace knowing, but there are still many implications that Ace is at level 5.
One of the most sensible is the whole thing about Croc being on the same level as Ace and how ridiculous it seems to me that Croc would be on this level 6.
He's not all that special, he was defeated by someone who would have been crushed by pretty much every pirate in the new world. Why commit such a mediocre (in terms of current standards of fighting) pirate to such a secure environment?
and ivotas, theres a reason nobody speaks of level 7. its a pretty bad idea really, for a start its going OTT quite clearly. And secondly, with people of 100mil+ on lv5, ace and croc apparently on 'level 7', who would be in level 6? Oda wouldnt add in floors willy nilly. (lol i love that saying xD)
Ever watched One Piece on acid? it's pretty sweet.
heh i overlooked that bit about Ace knowing, but there are still many implications that Ace is at level 5.
One of the most sensible is the whole thing about Croc being on the same level as Ace and how ridiculous it seems to me that Croc would be on this level 6.
He's not all that special, he was defeated by someone who would have been crushed by pretty much every pirate in the new world. Why commit such a mediocre (in terms of current standards of fighting) pirate to such a secure environment?
Because he is part of the friggin three great powers that keep the world in balance. Why would the WG create such a thing if it's not a serious matter for them? Furthermore as I stated a couple of times, he used that status to doublecross the WG and aim to take over a country and to revive Pluton. Do you think the WG doesn't consider that to be a biggie?
Fact is that Ace, Croc and Jinbei are all part of the three great powers. One because he's high ranked in the most powerful Yonkoh's crew the other two because they are Shichibukai. I repeat, these groups make the Three Great Powers. Do you think there's an entire level full of guys that are even an higher level then the Three Great Powers? If yes, then the TGP actually don't live up to their hype in the first place.
Well played freedom. Sometimes I think that people expect exactly that to happen. Another fun fact is that nearly nobody makes mention of a Level 7. Notice how I never said Level 6 but always deepest level when I'm speaking of the place where Ace is? ;)
Oh, somehow I erased what I typed originally. Either way, it's just as funny to me how people come up with their so-called "logical" theories which are mostly opinions. I stated earlier the most logical deduction for how Ace could possibly be on L-5 Freezing Hell. But none of the say'ers of Ace is on L-5 are using this argument.
heh i overlooked that bit about Ace knowing, but there are still many implications that Ace is at level 5.
One of the most sensible is the whole thing about Croc being on the same level as Ace and how ridiculous it seems to me that Croc would be on this level 6.
He's not all that special, he was defeated by someone who would have been crushed by pretty much every pirate in the new world. Why commit such a mediocre (in terms of current standards of fighting) pirate to such a secure environment?
Have you ever heard of the saying that every fight is different?
Also, do you really understanding the meaning of the word "rookie"? Maybe you should take a look at professional boxing.
Either way, just because Crocodile was defeated by Luffy doesn't mean he isn't worthy of the level he's on. As far as I'm concerned, there are still only a handful of characters who are capable of defeating someone like Crocodile. Hence why he's where he's at.
Great point Ivotas. I wasn't even consciously thinking about the fact that the three characters which the most focus on the level yet to be revealed are part of the TGP. Makes perfect sense when you look at it from this point of view.
heh i overlooked that bit about Ace knowing, but there are still many implications that Ace is at level 5.
One of the most sensible is the whole thing about Croc being on the same level as Ace and how ridiculous it seems to me that Croc would be on this level 6.
He's not all that special, he was defeated by someone who would have been crushed by pretty much every pirate in the new world. Why commit such a mediocre (in terms of current standards of fighting) pirate to such a secure environment?
still, you are perhaps forgetting the fact that he has opposed the world government while pretending to be a Shichibukai and being one of their puppets. He also tried to revive an ancient weapon and he is just plain evil. Also, I think you might underestimate his power. Luffy might have defeated him, yes, but only because he found his weakness. . .
He is just dangerous for the WG and there is no reason for him to ever see the light of day again and I for one can understand that the WG feels betrayed and therefor have locked him away and threw away the key
Because he is part of the friggin three great powers that keep the world in balance. Why would the WG create such a thing if it's not a serious matter for them? Furthermore as I stated a couple of times, he used that status to doublecross the WG and aim to take over a country and to revive Pluton. Do you think the WG doesn't consider that to be a biggie
whether he was a S-bukai or not, i don't think it makes that much sense that he should be in this 'level 6' for it. presumably, the reason stronger criminals are in lower levels is due to them being a greater military threat. The WG know he would never be in a position to doublecross them ever again.
Yeah sure, he IS an ex s-bukai and would therefore be treated with caution but surely the Wg care more about Luffy than him nowadays?
Luffy has done far more impressive things, and Luffy beat Croc. Croc old title means little to the WG now i expect, so what if he was a s-bukai, he clearly didnt have the strength that needs to go with that position.
Of course, if he is on this 'level 6' to punish him, thats a different story. But atm, the area where Croc and Ace are doesn't seem as bad as the freezing area - but obviously it is bad so more information is needed to settle this point properly.
I see your point, but it just seems off in my mind. The whole idea of this level 6.
Oh, somehow I erased what I typed originally. Either way, it's just as funny to me how people come up with their so-called "logical" theories which are mostly opinions. I stated earlier the most logical deduction for how Ace could possibly be on L-5 Freezing Hell. But none of the say'ers of Ace is on L-5 are using this argument.
Have you ever heard of the saying that every fight is different?
Also, do you really understanding the meaning of the word "rookie"? Maybe you should take a look at professional boxing.Either way, just because Crocodile was defeated by Luffy doesn't mean he isn't worthy of the level he's on. As far as I'm concerned, there are still only a handful of characters who are capable of defeating someone like Crocodile. Hence why he's where he's at.
Great point Ivotas. I wasn't even consciously thinking about the fact that the three characters which the most focus on the level yet to be revealed are part of the TGP. Makes perfect sense when you look at it from this point of view.
Yeah that argument mentioned by you is a good one, the reason i'm not using it is because its already been said enough and doesnt promote discussion. If i stuck to one pretty closed point, i wouldnt have this much fun ;P
Heh, if a Luffy who cant go gear 2nd anytime soon, and is on that sort of level, can defeat Croc very soon after understanding about water, i reckon many people would have had a shot against him. I dont know really, it just seems that every single 'boss' enemy that Luffy has faced since has been categorically stronger than Croc. Many of them with knowledge of how logias tend to work would figure out his weakness in their minds pretty quickly probably.
Youre not that strong if you can be defeated pretty neatly as soon as your weakness (not THAT hard to figure out) is discovered. If luffy had been able to use gear 2nd, the 3rd fight against croc wouldnt have come to pass. He wouldnt have lasted 2 minutes in their second fight. And its not as if gear 2nd is the most powerful thing ever either
Ever watched One Piece on acid? it's pretty sweet.
…The WG know he would never be in a position to doublecross them ever again.
Luffy has done far more impressive things, and Luffy beat Croc. Croc old title means little to the WG now i expect, so what if he was a s-bukai, he clearly didnt have the strength that needs to go with that position.
By that logic nobody deserves to be at the deepest level because being imprisoned they are not such a serious threat as those pirates who are still freely roaming around in the world. This makes the deepest level of Impel Down a permanent empty house in expectence for every criminal who's not captured yet, while the big guns who commited serious crimes are on the higher low security levels. Yeah right?
Also the statement that Luffy did more impressive things is subjective. Seeing how the WG launched a Buster Call against weak scholars because they studied the Poneglyphs I'd say that the WG fears the revival of an Ancient Weapon more then a rookie doing reckless things.
Further proof for that is that Luffy who just raided Enies Lobby and punched a Tenryubito straight into the face has lesser priority then the war with Whitebeard. And the special thing about this war is that it is a collision of the Three Great Powers. Thus showing it black on white that the TGP are by far higher priority then a reckless rookie.
You're missing the point, I expect level 6 and its prisoners to be built up better. It's existence and the prisoners in it should change everything we know about the One Piece world.
yeah but Croc is no longer one of the great powers, i dont see why the WG would place such undue importance in him. If the WG knew about Crocs plan to get Pluton (debatable in of itself), they would also know that he failed to get his hands on it. Croc never ended up doing much to harm the WG, only planned to. Luffy has interfered with the WG for a long time now, defeating S-bukai, invading enies lobby. Hell, the Wg would still care more about Luffy than Croc because without him interfering, they would have the one person known to read poneglyphs in their hands. Luffy has hrmed them rather alot compared, no?
Ever watched One Piece on acid? it's pretty sweet.
@Thousand:
You're missing the point, I expect level 6 and its prisoners to be built up better. It's existence and the prisoners in it should change everything we know about the One Piece world.
Err, I think you're expecting too much if you seriously think it should change everything we know about the OP world. So far the guys on Ace's level already received quite a build up when Crocodile used his silver medalist statement. In fact, that is already more build up then any of the generic prisoners of the Levels 1 - 4 received. And while these levels are already a matter of the past Ace's level still has to be fully introduced properly. Yet another point how that Level already with lesser exploration surpassed Lv 1 - 4.
yeah but Croc is no longer one of the great powers, i dont see why the WG would place such undue importance in him. If the WG knew about Crocs plan to get Pluton (debatable in of itself), they would also know that he failed to get his hands on it. Croc never ended up doing much to harm the WG, only planned to.
I can only repeat, by that logic no prisoner would make it to the deepest level because everybody who gets arrested and is sent to Impel Down is somebody who failed at some point, no matter how great of a threat he was before. Don't you see the flaw in that argument?
Luffy has interfered with the WG for a long time now, defeating S-bukai, invading enies lobby. Hell, the Wg would still care more about Luffy than Croc because without him interfering, they would have the one person known to read poneglyphs in their hands. Luffy has hrmed them rather alot compared, no?
Apparently everything in the story proves that they still take him too lightly. Don't forget that the WG doesn't see Luffy as we do. Yes he has done outragous things. But at the same time there's even bigger fish in the sea. Heck us readers have only witnessed ourselves how little effort Kuma had with raping the crew. And you expect the WG to treat this rookie more serious then the someone who is/was part of the Three Great Powers?
Yeah that argument mentioned by you is a good one, the reason i'm not using it is because its already been said enough and doesnt promote discussion. If i stuck to one pretty closed point, i wouldnt have this much fun ;P
Didn't know that point had been established exactly as I had presented it. So that's understandable then. But trying to just make up other reasons is kind of childish… no!
Youre not that strong if you can be defeated pretty neatly as soon as your weakness (not THAT hard to figure out) is discovered. If luffy had been able to use gear 2nd, the 3rd fight against croc wouldnt have come to pass. He wouldnt have lasted 2 minutes in their second fight. And its not as if gear 2nd is the most powerful thing ever either
I think you're missing a really big dynamic of the fight against Luffy and Crocodile. In their second encounter, Luffy knew he needed water, hence "Water Luffy" vs. "Crocodile". And how did that end? exactly like the first encounter with Luffy being defeated. In their third encounter, though Luffy won, Luffy was poisoned and would have died if Miss All-Sunday didn't give him the antidote. I know I know, Luffy won before that poison would have kille him. Ok yes, but Luffy's "blood" was the reason he could continously hit Crocodile. Now, that's actually really a BS reason because blook will coagulate and will harden, so it's not liquid enough to turn sand to mud any longer. but it's one of those… well, ok, i'll let that one slide because Luffy was at such a disadvantage anyways and the arc needed to conclude.
Didn't know that point had been established exactly as I had presented it. So that's understandable then. But trying to just make up other reasons is kind of childish… no!
I think you're missing a really good dynamic of the fight against Luffy and Crocodile. In their second encounter, Luffy knew he needed water, hence "Water Luffy" vs. "Crocodile". And how did that end? exactly like the first encounter with Luffy being defeated.
If Luffy was at his current level in the story, or if Croc was fighting someone, almost anyone, at the level fights are going on now, as soon as water was discovered to be Crocs weakness it would be basically over. If luffy had gear 2nd at the time, he could have drenched then pummeled Croc so easily. If Croc could get hit more than once in that fight as it was, imagine how hard of a time he would have fighting someone good.
Aha and i'm not making up reasons as you're implying. I think these reasons can be, hopefully for the most part xD, backed up adequately.
Ever watched One Piece on acid? it's pretty sweet.
If Luffy was at his current level in the story, or if Croc was fighting someone, almost anyone, at the level fights are going on now, as soon as water was discovered to be Crocs weakness it would be basically over. If luffy had gear 2nd at the time, he could have drenched then pummeled Croc so easily. If Croc could get hit more than once in that fight as it was, imagine how hard of a time he would have fighting someone good.
Erm no, it wouldn't. One Piece isn't like Dragonball where Piccolo <vegeta<frieza<cell<buu applies.="" in="" op="" it's="" rather="" a="" scissors,="" rock,="" paper="" way.="" yes,="" enel,="" rucchi="" and="" moria="" could="" defeat="" crocodile.="" but="" the="" point="" is,="" he="" them="" also.="" that's="" what="" makes="" more="" interesting,="" not="" so="" clear.="" is="" better="" martial="" arts="" that="" doesn't="" help="" much="" if="" logias="" turn="" into="" their="" elements.="" at="" same="" time="" elemental="" power="" mean="" too="" quick="" for="" on.<br="">That said I agree that water would be a big ace up your sleeve against Crocodile. But still, he isn't that bad of a fighter to easily go down because of that. He'd still deliver a good fight and could even emerge victorious. It really isn't that simple as in Dragonball.</vegeta<frieza<cell<buu>
Err, I think you're expecting too much if you seriously think it should change everything we know about the OP world. So far the guys on Ace's level already received quite a build up when Crocodile used his silver medalist statement. In fact, that is already more build up then any of the generic prisoners of the Levels 1 - 4 received. And while these levels are already a matter of the past Ace's level still has to be fully introduced properly. Yet another point how that Level already with lesser exploration surpassed Lv 1 - 4.
No I'm not. it's reserved for people who were so bad, the had to be erased from history. ERASED FROM HISTORY. I think you're underestimating the power and significance of such a statement. And why I have such high hopes for level 6. Because Mr. Oda usually lives up to such an incredible, powerful and outlandish statement.
@Thousand:
No I'm not. it's reserved for people who were so bad, the had to be erased from history. ERASED FROM HISTORY. I think you're underestimating the power and significance of such a statement. And why I have such high hopes for level 6. Because Mr. Oda usually lives up to such an incredible, powerful and outlandish statement.
And how exactly does erasing from history work? Just because someone goes down one level deeper the generel memory of that individual wont fade more effectively then when he's in the levels above? Does the ID staff use some sort of voodoo or magic trick to get that done? All I'm saying is that this "erased from history" thing gets taken a bit too literal.
Remember how the WG annihilated the population of Ohara? That was in order to erase the void century from history, not the Oharan population which until this day still are memorized as the Demons of Ohara. So in order to effectively erase someone from history (without a magic trick) you actually need to erase everything that refers to said individual. And ultimately this also means to eliminate everybody who ever knew of him/her which I don't see actually happening since if it's a notorious person you'd have to kill by far more people then back then at Ohara. So yeah, as said in my previous paragraph, I think that "erased from history" statement is taken way too literal.
And even if it's not and it's really to be taken literal (which I doubt) then you'll experience the same problem, that the whole lot of prisoners there will be generic and only a few of them will stick out.
Erm no, it wouldn't. One Piece isn't like Dragonball where Piccolo <vegeta<frieza<cell<buu applies.="" in="" op="" it's="" rather="" a="" scissors,="" rock,="" paper="" way.="" yes,="" enel,="" rucchi="" and="" moria="" could="" defeat="" crocodile.="" but="" the="" point="" is,="" he="" them="" also.="" that's="" what="" makes="" more="" interesting,="" not="" so="" clear.="" is="" better="" martial="" arts="" that="" doesn't="" help="" much="" if="" logias="" turn="" into="" their="" elements.="" at="" same="" time="" elemental="" power="" mean="" too="" quick="" for="" on.<br="">That said I agree that water would be a big ace up your sleeve against Crocodile. But still, he isn't that bad of a fighter to easily go down because of that. He'd still deliver a good fight and could even emerge victorious. It really isn't that simple as in Dragonball.</vegeta<frieza<cell<buu>
:) I appreciate that this isnt the same as dragonball, and things arent that straightforward. But honestly do you believe that bit about Croc delivering a good fight if a powerful-by-todays-standards person knew about the water thing? His skills aside from his devil fruit are hopelessly sub-par compared to the calibur of fighter we're seeing nowadays.
Obviously, he is a strong pirate with a logia fruit, and back to the original point.. why is Crocodile being seen as worthy of a deeper ID level than luffy? Its because of Luffy that Robin is free and one of your main points for Crocs threat is BECAUSE he had Robin with him. Without Robin, no pluton. Luffy has Robin at the moment does he not? Doesn't that scale Luffy up to be that much more of a threat than Crocodile?
wow i really need to work on how articualte i am ^^
Ever watched One Piece on acid? it's pretty sweet.
woot finally this chapter is out and damn i feel sorry for luffy in that last scene
I mean, is it just me or does it look like hes dissolving or decomposing? Either way I find it touch for him to get out of this unless he somehow applies like a layer of haki around him to prevent himself from getting degenerating any further.
my only complain is THIS SHIT
god i hate this people they are annoying with a power that we know NOTHING just that he made people faint or can make hit stronger
and it seems like mantra and zoro ability to cut things may have something to do with it
but we dont know nothing of that for certain
so if we dont even know if it is like that
NOTHING MORE
stop saying bullshit about something you dont know
and no it wont happen
