This is offtopic, but has a semi decent quality version of the movie come out yet?
Full Metal Alchemist Discussion
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reads current manga but hasn't read latest chapter
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!? They SO did not bump off my Ling!!!!!!
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they didnt "bump" him off they just turned him into a bad guy =(
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This post is deleted!
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the fma movie came out? i had no idea :(
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the fma movie came out? i had no idea :(
it's been a loooong time now (was it this summer?). there was/is a fansub somewhere but it's from a very bad screener so i didn't bother watching it.
when will the dvd come out????
well, i'll start reading the manga, as it looks marvelous and it's just been published in france.
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It seems Ling had intentions of becoming Greed, maybe he's just faking the mind control and an ironic twist'll happen where he fools everyone. But judging by the fact that he has the ouroboros on his hand, if my guess were to be correct, perhaps Ling would have control over the "ultimate shield". Also, I'm not sure if the scanlation on groups.msn.com/fullmetalalchemist is correct, but Father calls Hohenheim not a he, but an it. Does that mean that Hohenheim could be a homunculus?
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@yokaiforte:
Does that mean that Hohenheim could be a homunculus?
I'd say Hohenheim healing up after getting shot in the head is somewhat better evidence
Super sweet chapter! Scar and Mei will definitely make their entrance on the scene next chapter
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Well, in the dub, Hoenheim is voiced by Scott McNeil. That's just weird: An Ocean Group voice-actor in a FUNimation dub. But, Jonny Young Bosch did the voice of Lujon, too.
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Damn poor ling. Though for 55 scar was awesomeness. Also when the girl found out ed was short was so funny XD.
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Yeah, all of Mei's illusions being shattered was just hilarious. And one reason that the manga is way better than the anime: it never lost the funny.
Well, from what we can tell now, Greed has control of the body, but Ling is still kickin' in there somewhere. He's just . . . . . being dominated right now. And Greed has no memory of his former body/doings.
And we know Ling is still there because he reacted to Ed shouting about Ran Fan. (fangirl squee: Awwwwwww!!!!)
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bump for a reason
ok i saw the movie yesterday and i thought this (contains spoilers)
! I liked it the ending of the moive was ok i didnt like how ed and al ended up in our world. Mustang is awesome . Maybe i shouldve seen the ending of the anime first considering i havent seen it. Though i really like al in this movie (eds brother not the other one) What happened to peoples bodys in the gate seemed intresting. Once you lose your body it goes to the other side. Though one problem i had with this was….
THEY MADE HUGHES A FREAKING NAZI ON THE OTHER SIDE!
ok i was a bit mad about that. It was a good movie overall -
FMA's an interesting series, though I doubt it would recieve much more than a passing glance if not for FUNimation's dub. I mean, the drawing looks like crack. Seriously; thank gosh BONES cleaned up the character designs.
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I don't know about that, I found FMA when looking for random fansubs on the net. It's now my favorite anime. I've never SEEN the dub. Period. I don't even want to know what ED's voise sounds like in english. Ignorance is bliss.
So some people here have seen the movie. I guess that means it's floating around the net. I'll have to go look for it when I have time.
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I don't know about that, I found FMA when looking for random fansubs on the net. It's now my favorite anime. I've never SEEN the dub. Period. I don't even want to know what ED's voise sounds like in english. Ignorance is bliss.
So some people here have seen the movie. I guess that means it's floating around the net. I'll have to go look for it when I have time.
The FUNimation dub is one of the few instances in which "ignorance", makes one look foolish. If subbies consider the dub better than the original, when 99% of dubs are worse, that's saying something, neh?
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Also, I was talking of the manga, which many call superior to the Anime, though I consider it "average". The only real bonus is having the chapters long, but that does not make up for an overall shortness (for a monthly installment) and poor drawing.
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Malintex the reason why the manga is superior is that the anime is another casualty of great manga being adaptated into a crappy ass anime.
And even if the manga comes out once a month that really isn't a big deal unless your someone who becomes so attached to a manga that you have to find scans of it everytime the newest chapter hits the streets in Japan.
And lastly I really don't find anything wrong with the art since the art in the anime is almost the same in the manga I mean you don't necessarily need great looking art to make a great manga, FMA is one of the only manga that I read that started off with good looking art and still continues with great looking art.
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So some people here have seen the movie. I guess that means it's floating around the net. I'll have to go look for it when I have time.
i actually bought i hk sub version ^____^;;;
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@Sandai:
Malintex the reason why the manga is superior is that the anime is another casualty of great manga being adaptated into a crappy ass anime.
I love this logic. "The manga is better because the anime sucks". :stupid:
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Even if you consider the anime to be bad, that doesn't imply the manga is good. I'd go so far as to wager that most bad animes are based off of bad manga.
Even in a situation in which the storyline of the anime and manga are the same (Naruto), calling the manga superior is dumb simply by virtue of the lack of colour, animation, and, oh, ease of reading. Naruto is drawn pretty badly, too; how people think the manga is "superior" to the anime, disregarding the obvious filler and quality discrepencies, is quite foolish.
@Sandai:
And even if the manga comes out once a month that really isn't a big deal unless your someone who becomes so attached to a manga that you have to find scans of it everytime the newest chapter hits the streets in Japan.
That's not my point. My point is, in spite of more time to draw a manga than someone like Eiichiro Oda, the author of FMA draws poorly and doesn't equate her comics to the same amount as four weeks of OP. It's a less demanding schedule.
@Sandai:
And lastly I really don't find anything wrong with the art since the art in the anime is almost the same in the manga I mean you don't necessarily need great looking art to make a great manga, FMA is one of the only manga that I read that started off with good looking art and still continues with great looking art.
The art's piss poor, and everyone knows it. The designs are simple and appear drawn by an unsteady hand; this is common in the newer chapters (also present in Naruto), though harder to detect in the earlier material and in "poster shots", or the shaded covers.
Disregarding shading and the "cartooning" of characters (which some precieve as skill), there's massive inconsitencies in character design (with Ed having a fat head in one scene, badly misshapen) in eveything from the Homunculus to Alphonse. Granted, all mangaka are guilty of this; but hey, at least Oda doesn't make his mistakes so dang fugly.
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I've read the manga and it sounds a HELL of a lot better than the anime. The anime's plot was pretty much vomit towards the end of the series, and they ruined the Elric Bros. by turning them into gigantic angstbucket douchebags. And WTF was that stupid plot twist about ALCHEMY BEING POWERED BY THE LIVES OF PEOPLE IN BIZARRO 1930'S GERMANY?
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I liked the anime a lot, especially in two points-
- Making Lust a bigger character/turning him into the creation of failed alchemey of Trisha.
- More Martel.
Episode 37 is by far the best episode. Poor Havoc.
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I love this logic. "The manga is better than the anime sucks".:stupid:
Well Malintex let's look at a perfectly good example of what happens when you adapt a popular manga into a godawful anime.
"Rurouni Kenshin" (I'm too lazy to go and give a history lesson at the moment but you should already be familiar with this.) some other good examples include Gantz,Berserk, & Shaman King.
Even if you consider the anime to be is bad that doesn't imply that the manga is good
No that's what everybody else like you might consider but I'm not like that.
I mean I could care less about things like art, story, character & (such the only exception being the FLCL manga)Even in a situation of which the story of the manga and anime are the same (Naruto) calling the manga superior is dumb by of virtue of the lack of color, animation, oh, ease of reading
Calling the anime superior over the manga just because it has colors, animation, and oh voices is just dumb as well.
I mean let's look at this from a logical viewpoint take William Shakepeare's Romeo & Juliet one of the most popular books ever written in history great characters, great story (hate sad endings FYI), now look at the 1997 movie adaptation starring Leonardo Dicaprio(sp) & Claire Danes now I can only imagine how many people who were fans of the book were pissed with how much the movie stepped on the original story. Mercuito dressing up as a woman:huh: , the list goes on & on.
When I see a manga that I like get adapted into an anime I want all the people involved in the production of the anime to think of the fans who have fallen in love with the story and the characters & the mangaka who suffer's from hand cramps, deadlines, occasional writer's block, & other problems before they make they decision to find various ways to completely deviate from the original stuff that the fans have fallen in love with & the mangaka who had to suffer to come up with that same stuff. I mean I can get pass the filler (if it's actually any good) (and the changes as long as they're not completely necessary). If you can't do that then I have no respect for you or your piss-ass anime.
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know whats funny is that sk and fma had the same anime producer. :D
though personally i like the fma anime
not really sure how i feel about the 1920s germany thing though
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@Cap'n:
I've read the manga and it sounds a HELL of a lot better than the anime. The anime's plot was pretty much vomit towards the end of the series, and they ruined the Elric Bros. by turning them into gigantic angstbucket douchebags. And WTF was that stupid plot twist about ALCHEMY BEING POWERED BY THE LIVES OF PEOPLE IN BIZARRO 1930'S GERMANY?
I didn't like that part, either, but one plot device hardly defines an entire show. I consider the creation of Homunculus in the Anime as a result of failed human transmutation to be logical and more plausible than the generic "artificial evolution of mankind" events that lead to the birth of Homunculi in the manga. Neither the anime nor manga address how Homunculi powers circumnavigate around "equivilent exchange", nor why the powers manifest in the way they do (like why all "Greed"s have the ability to rearrange their carbon structure). If that was explained in the manga, I cite the relatively short anime (for a shounen serial, that is) as not long enough to fully describe all that, especially since the anime was forced to go in an entirely different direction from the manga.
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But I digress. Most people here have only read either the Anime OR manga, so we really should be on an equal playingfield before badmouthing what we don't really know about. :/
@Sandai:
Well Malintex let's look at a perfectly good example of what happens when you adapt a popular manga into a godawful anime.
"Rurouni Kenshin" (I'm too lazy to go and give a history lesson at the moment but you should already be familiar with this.) some other good examples include Gantz,Berserk, & Shaman King.
So, you address my assertion by citing a correlating inverse property? My quip works both ways; good anime does not imply good manga, just as bad anime does not bad manga. I would also disagree with you on Shaman King because the manga ended abruptly and painfully, as well as on Gantz, which I am told is marvelously done despite not being as long as the manga.
@Sandai:
No that's what everybody else like you might consider but I'm not like that.
I mean I could care less about things like art, story, character & (such the only exception being the FLCL manga).Woah. That's signature material.
I said a truth; just because something is good/bad in manga form doesn't mean it will be good/bad in Anime form. There is at least ONE situation in all of time that proves this. Furthermore, if you don't care about the story, art, or characters of a show, how can you like it? Are you implying FLCL is little more than a book filled with blank pages or fanservice?
@Sandai:
Calling the anime superior over the manga just because it has colors, animation, and oh voices is just dumb as well.
…why?
@Sandai:
I mean let's look at this from a logical viewpoint take William Shakepeare's Romeo & Juliet one of the most popular books ever written in history great characters, great story (hate sad endings FYI), now look at the 1997 movie adaptation starring Leonardo Dicaprio(sp) & Claire Danes now I can only imagine how many people who were fans of the book were pissed with how much the movie stepped on the original story. Mercuito dressing up as a woman:huh: , the list goes on & on.
Huh? The 1997 movie was what the directory imagined Romeo & Juliet would have been like in a modern world. If you were expecting a faithful yet ~hot~ version of the original, I would imagine your disappointment. Heck, I liked the second one better because it didn't show nudity.
One might even go so far as to call the 1997 movie a "spoof". Heard of those? I think they're quite popular amidst people who like to laugh.
@Sandai:
When I see a manga that I like get adapted into an anime I want all the people involved in the production of the anime to think of the fans who have fallen in love with the story and the characters & the mangaka who suffer's from hand cramps, deadlines, occasional writer's block, & other problems before they make they decision to find various ways to completely deviate from the original stuff that the fans have fallen in love with & the mangaka who had to suffer to come up with that same stuff. I mean I can get pass the filler (if it's actually any good) (and the changes as long as they're not completely necessary). If you can't do that then I have no respect for you or your piss-ass anime.
Oh, oh, I feel so bad the mangaka gets hand cramps and has to meet deadlines. Why doesn't that said mangaka STOP DRAWING AND GET A REAL JOB, then? Those mangakas are making money doing something both they and the fans love; they signed up for that life, so tough crack if they can't take it. There are tons of other mangaka out there willing to endure the same.
I hold the same view for professional translators; it's unfair for people like eln, oceanizer and himizujin to translate their favourite manga well with virtually no mistakes, no pay, and risk of lawsuit while those "professionals" produce half-arsed material that has typos, mistranslations and unnecessary loss of meaning. The company using those translations is at fault for not demanding a superior product, but I mean, come ON. Those guys are paid, and paid well to translate, but our boys at AP do it for free and do it better?
Furthermore, falling in love with a manga first is usually good criteria to get ones heart broken come the Anime adaption. Using one's imagination is essential for reading manga to make up for the lack of colours, voices, and motion; hence, if the Anime doesn't fit EXACTLY what one expected, there's going to be complaining.
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Woah. That's signature material.
Are you implying FLCL is little more than a book filled with blank pages or fanservice?
It you watched the FLCL anime and thought it was completely convoluted as such and gave you an ending that in the long run made little or no sense at all than read the manga not what I was expecting.
as well as on Gantz, which I am told is marvelously done
Funny that's not what the guys at the stoptazmo forums think, granted some of their comments good or bad can be taken as Grade A Bullshit though.
Furthermore, if you don't care about the story, art, or characters of a show, how can you like it?
Simple, find information on the manga or anime by visiting places like ANN, Forums, or any other places on the web decide whether you want to read or watch it, find a place that'll let you DL chapters or episodes, sit down and enjoy it, and that theory hasn't led me wrong yet.Personally I can't really describe what keeps me reading these mangas even if they carry flaws with the art, story, or characters.
One might even go so far as to call the 1997 movie a "spoof". Heard of those? I think they're quite popular amidst people who like to laugh.
:mellow: Scary Movie was a spoof, Naked Gun was a spoof, even Spaceballs was a spoof that movie was just crap.
Calling the anime superior over the manga just because it has colors, animation, and oh voices is just dumb as well.
…why?
:huh:
Even in a situation in which the storyline of the anime and manga are the same (Naruto), calling the manga superior is dumb simply by virtue of the lack of colour, animation, and, oh, ease of reading.
I don't know if this is example of it but two words "Double Standard".
If mangas had color, animation, and ease of reading they wouldn't be mangas now would they, they'd be exactly what they wind up becoming later on
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@Sandai:
It you watched the FLCL anime and thought it was completely convoluted as such and gave you an ending that in the long run made little or no sense at all than read the manga not what I was expecting.
I saw it. I don't like it. It's too crazy and nonsensical…but what I don't understand is your support of the manga. Even if strongly dissassoiated from the anime, what kind of novel has no story/characters/art?
@Sandai:
Funny that's not what the guys at the stoptazmo forums think, granted some of their comments good or bad can be taken as Grade A Bullshit though.
Huh, I'm a member of stoptazmo and didn't know it…cool. Anyway, I don't talk to those people and I'm only basing that assumption on one opinion, but that opinion was of a dude who saw a couple episode and finished "completely satisfied." I have not seen Gantz so I cannot make a decision unto and of myself yet.
@Sandai:
Simple, find information on the manga or anime by visiting places like ANN, Forums, or any other places on the web decide whether you want to read or watch it, find a place that'll let you DL chapters or episodes, sit down and enjoy it, and that theory hasn't led me wrong yet.Personally I can't really describe what keeps me reading these mangas even if they carry flaws with the art, story, or characters.
Excuse me? Reading a summary usually involves something with the story. A review usually notes the positives/negatives of characters and character development, sometimes even noting the art. Reading about things is a good way to get hyped about something (I do this frequently with Wikipedia), but it's hardly a substitute for first hand experience, no?
@Sandai:
:mellow: Scary Movie was a spoof, Naked Gun was a spoof, even Spaceballs was a spoof that movie was just crap.
o.O
Methinks you've lost all credibility to your arguments…
@Sandai:
:huh:
To clarify, I say colours, animation and voices make Anime superior to manga. Give me a proper hypothesis as to why I am wrong.
@Sandai:
I don't know if this is example of it but two words "Double Standard".
If there's a double standard in Naruto, it's with emphasis on the anime, not the manga.
@Sandai:
If mangas had color, animation, and ease of reading they wouldn't be mangas now would they, they'd be exactly what they wind up becoming later on
"Animes"You're giving me a circular argument. I [virtually] said at the beginning, "The FMA anime is superior to the FMA manga". To any perceptive individual, anime and manga are OBVIOUSLY different mediums, but the story and delivery in the FMA anime are superior. You still have not given me any examples of why I am WRONG. Simple Scientific Method.
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@Anime:
I liked the anime a lot, especially in two points-
- Making Lust a bigger character/turning him into the creation of failed alchemey of Trisha.
- More Martel.
Episode 37 is by far the best episode. Poor Havoc.
Havoc's part in Episode 37 was actually based on a bonus manga chapter. Both are hilarious.
And I thought Trisha turned into Sloth, not Lust?
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Trisha was Sloth in the anime.
As many flaws as the anime ended up having, I always did love the character development with Lust. But the movie was terrible. It didn't even feel like Fullmetal Alchemist. Just a movie that happens to have Edward and Roy. The manga storyline and characters are much superior to what Bones did. I like having a non angsty-brother-backstabbing Alphonse and a Winry that actually kicks ass and doesn't just pine after Ed. Honestly can't blame Bones I guess, they only had 4-5 volumes to work with when they started the show. They have quite a track record with badly ending anime in my opinion. I fear for Eureka 7…
Anyway chapter 56 was awesome. Finally (not that the previous ones were bad at all) a chapter with almost all the characters again :laugh:
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You're giving me a circular argument. I [virtually] said at the beginning, "The FMA anime is superior to the FMA manga". To any perceptive individual, anime and manga are OBVIOUSLY different mediums, but the story and delivery in the FMA anime are superior. You still have not given me any examples of why I am WRONG. Simple Scientific Method.
Come on, Malintex. Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it the factual truth.
I've seen all of the anime and read all of the manga, and I consider the manga far, far superior to the anime. This has nothing to do with any elitist attitude either; I simply consider the character development, story and everything else to be several huge steps up from the stuff the anime pulls out.
Also, I really like the art in the manga; I think it's very well done and I find the style appealing.
I cannot offer evidence or any ''proper hypothesis'' to back up my 100% subjective view on that; asking that is like asking me to elaborate exactly why I think poop does not taste well, and demanding evidence to find out why it wouldn't.
Your opinion is not the truth here. That alone is easily proven by the simple fact a lot of people, me included, do not agree with your views. Simple Scientific Method.
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Come on, Malintex. Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it the factual truth.
I've seen all of the anime and read all of the manga, and I consider the manga far, far superior to the anime. This has nothing to do with any elitist attitude either; I simply consider the character development, story and everything else to be several huge steps up from the stuff the anime pulls out.
Also, I really like the art in the manga; I think it's very well done and I find the style appealing.
I cannot offer evidence or any ''proper hypothesis'' to back up my 100% subjective view on that; asking that is like asking me to elaborate exactly why I think poop does not taste well, and demanding evidence to find out why it wouldn't.
Your opinion is not the truth here. That alone is easily proven by the simple fact a lot of people, me included, do not agree with your views. Simple Scientific Method
:ohmy: Really wish I could've broken it down like that but I never been good with explaining things throughly
o.O
Methinks you've lost all credibility to your arguments…
Gee I wonder how, you were the one who thought the movie was a spoof eventhough it isn't, now who's the one who's been discredited me or you?
To clarify, I say colours, animation and voices make Anime superior to manga. Give me a proper hypothesis as to why I am wrong.
Really can't give you an educated guess as to why your wrong but I can reemphasize the statement you & I mentioned earlier which more or less cancel each other out.
calling the manga superior is dumb simply by virtue of the lack of colour, animation, and, oh, ease of reading.
Calling the anime superior over the manga just because it has colors, animation, and oh voices is just dumb as well.
If mangas had color, animation, and ease of reading they wouldn't be mangas now would they, they'd be exactly what they wind up becoming later on
"Animes" -
@Mog:
I've seen all of the anime and read all of the manga, and I consider the manga far, far superior to the anime. This has nothing to do with any elitist attitude either; I simply consider the character development, story and everything else to be several huge steps up from the stuff the anime pulls
out.Also, I really like the art in the manga; I think it's very well done and I find the style appealing.
I won't rule out elitism until you give me evidence as to why. There's bound to be more character development in the manga because it is still in production. Compare Berserk anime Guts to current Berserk manga Guts and I think you can understand where I am coming from.
Furthermore, to paraphrase Sandai, most of season 1 is faithful to the manga. You're treating the Anime as if it were completely different from the manga, like Excel Saga. This leads me to confusion; how can you patriotically support the manga's story when the Anime is the same? The same goes for character designs; I will admit that art is what people percieve it to be (modern art, anyone?), and you take the "childish" artwork to be attractive in some way. I won't dispute that, but are you an artist? I am an amateur at best, but I that still gives me credibility for critique, and I know there are certain standards of quality that should be universally respected for anime/manga. Such, Negima's anime is a blight on this world. In the same way, so is the manga of FLCL (checked it out today because of Sandai's rec.), Cyborg 009, and FMA.
You also lump "everything else" into a single category, which illustrates bias; you're too apathetic to sort out what you like, so I can infer that you probably didn't like much of it at all; this undermines your argument, as all partisanship does.
@Mog:
I cannot offer evidence or any ''proper hypothesis'' to back up my 100% subjective view on that; asking that is like asking me to elaborate exactly why I think poop does not taste well, and demanding evidence to find out why it wouldn't.
A hypothesis is an educated explanation, which differs slightly from a normal subjective opinion. There the hypothesis in the world that would describe why "poop does not taste well" aside from noting that our tongues are simply attuned to reject the molecular makeup of poop because it has marginal nutritional value and can be quite sickening. The opposing "evidence" would explain that the tongue isn't responsible; instead, it's the brain which choses to accept the electrical impulses transmitted by the tongue.
My explanation for the Anime's superiority over the manga was that it had colour, movement, voices, superior character development for some characters and an original take on the story. The opposition to this (if you support the manga) would be that the Anime is too short to tell the whole story (even if the story were original), thus making it inferior simply by lack of detail over time, the limitations of budget in respect to animation (stye inconsitencies), the underdevelopment of many characters or just the nonsensical progression of the plot.
@Mog:
Your opinion is not the truth here. That alone is easily proven by the simple fact a lot of people, me included, do not agree with your views. Simple Scientific Method.
You're not understanding my rhetoric. I offered an explanation for why the Anime is better and asked someone to challenge that. An explanation is an opinion, but seasoned with reason and evidence. My citation of the general qualities of Anime over manga serves as my evidence; I simply offered a challange for someone to dispute why I am mistaken. Ergo, I am right if no one can prove me wrong. That IS how scientists deduce things, isn't it? If there's on flaw, a theory goes flat; we constantly attempt to disprove, not support, our assertions. After dismantling your post, I still say you havn't offerred enough to prove me wrong. I daresay though that it was a pleasure reading someone's notes without having to bash my head into the keyboard cough Sandai cough.
I've used this method before in the "I support Jason Anthony Griffith" section of the massive 4Kids dub. My actual position on Griffith was obscure, so I adopted an artificial position to allow people to make a realization within themselves that I had already reached unaided. If I could best describe this technique, it would be part of the Socratic Method.
In this particular instance, I've taken a radical stance to hopefully illustrate to you lot that no Anime or manga is entirely bad. When people say, "the anime suxxors" or "I would never watch the English version over the Japanese one", I get pissed off because these are the same people who complain about 4Kids dubbies not "understanding the true will of Eiichiro Oda and One Piece". The fudge? You lot are gosh darn hypocrites! Understand that there are always some redeeming qualities to things and never, ever pass off material as entirely "bad", ESPECIALLY if one has not experienced the "bad" material. Reviews, overviews, and summaries should at best be a supplement or a preview of material, NEVER a substitute.
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Here comes Sandai's argument. Lord help me.
...nevermind, that argument self destructed. I need not dismantle it at all. >.<;
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This post is deleted!
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…damn it. I hate it when I mess up
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I won't rule out elitism until you give me evidence as to why.
Well, I can't really prove that, now can I? Nor can I prove, say, I'm a nice person to you. I mean, we don't know each other, so whether or not I'm ''elitist'' when it comes to stuff like this is, I suppose, left entirely up to your perception. I'd appreciate it you didn't think I'm the type of guy to let my opinions be influenced by such things, but I can't force you to.
To give it a shot, though, I did see the anime ages before I ever read the manga, which I was actually pressured into doing by other people before I got to it. I had low expectations, but grew to love it.
You say ''universally expected standards''. Then why do most of the people I've talked to loved or liked the FMA art rather than hate it like you do? Why do so many people adore the artwork in FLCL? I say the mere fact so many people disagree with you destroys ''universally expected''. It's your expectations in the fields of art you're talking about, not everybody else's. And simply put, FMA failed to meet them. I understand that completely. It's just that you're making it sound like the art factually sucks, which I find a bit grating, considering how much I (and other people) like it.
And yes, I actually am an artist. But I don't think that gives me more right to judge artwork than other people. In fact, I think hardly anything does. Taste can't be argued, like I think you stated yourself. I say the quality of the art in FMA is pretty high, and I like the style to boot. If you disagree, that's how you view it…. But you just can't pass that off as fact, even if simply because of the fact I alone disagree so firmly.
My explanation for the Anime's superiority over the manga was that it had colour, movement, voices, superior character development for some characters and an original take on the story. The opposition to this (if you support the manga) would be that the Anime is too short to tell the whole story (even if the story were original), thus making it inferior simply by lack of detail over time, the limitations of budget in respect to animation (stye inconsitencies), the underdevelopment of many characters or just the nonsensical progression of the plot.
A lot of the things you listed to prove the anime's superiority were subjective by themselves here. How can ''superior character development'' be presented factually? Or ''voices'' even? There are multiple instances in anime I just think people are extremely miscast. Or ''movement''. There's plenty of movement in One Piece, but a lot of the episodes I still consider to be crappily animated and painful to watch.
Granted, English isn't my native language… Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the thought behind the phrase ''hypothesis'' here. But listing opinions to support an opinion doesn't really work for me. And... That's my whole point. I don't you think you can prove why something is better than something else, especially using shakey arguments like those you just listed. It just so happens you like the movement, animation, voices and plot in the anime, but this most certainly doesn't go for everybody else.
I think the point you're trying to make is that you're backing up your view with what you consider substantial reasoning… While I am not. Well, here's why: I don't think there's any way you can reason opinions. Or even back them up factually. If someone disagrees with you, it's entirely a matter of taste, mentality and a whole lot of other things. The things you consider substantial reasoning might not be reasonable at all to others. And it's always like that.
I mean... If that makes sense. Because it does to me.
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Here comes Sandai's argument. Lord help me.
As long as I don't hear you putting down another manga/anime that I really like for an absurd reason then you won't have to worry about about hearing a peep out of me.
Furthermore, to paraphrase Sandai, most of season 1 is faithful to the manga. You're treating the Anime as if it were completely different from the manga
-Yawwwwnnnnnn- I'm not trying to restart this debate but I have to shoot a hole in this statement the anime is faithful to the manga leading up to the Devil's Nest Arc but only about (let's say) 45%, if you include the removal of certain characters, the addition of new characters, the shortening of certain events (i.e. Rush Valley), the lengtning of other events (Al running away after the 5th lab. arc etc.)
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@Mog:
Well, I can't really prove that, now can I? Nor can I prove, say, I'm a nice person to you. I mean, we don't know each other, so whether or not I'm ''elitist'' when it comes to stuff like this is, I suppose, left entirely up to your perception. I'd appreciate it you didn't think I'm the type of guy to let my opinions be influenced by such things, but I can't force you to.
Don't take the arguments personally, no offense was intentional; I'm trying to teach everyone here to be a bit more accepting of "unknowns" without blatanty chastising them. People isolate and ridicule "newbies", but many of their positions on issues are adamant and rigid, much like the newbies these people tend to rive.
I'm a moderate in all aspects of my life; I only adopt a radical position to help bring neutrality to a fairly one-sided argument. It doesn't matter the position of the radical argument; it's very existence causes problems. This argument is artificial; if the majority of people considered the Anime superior to the manga, I would voice support for the latter.
@Mog:
To give it a shot, though, I did see the anime ages before I ever read the manga, which I was actually pressured into doing by other people before I got to it. I had low expectations, but grew to love it.
You say ''universally expected standards''. Then why do most of the people I've talked to loved or liked the FMA art rather than hate it like you do? Why do so many people adore the artwork in FLCL? I say the mere fact so many people disagree with you destroys ''universally expected''. It's your expectations in the fields of art you're talking about, not everybody else's. And simply put, FMA failed to meet them. I understand that completely. It's just that you're making it sound like the art factually sucks, which I find a bit grating, considering how much I (and other people) like it.
Ahh, that's a bit better.
I should note that I do not "hate" the artwork in FMA, else I would despise the Anime. What I am citing is the relatively poor art quality from an artist, not an average fan's perspective. Critics alike condemn rescent Disney films as being "poorly animated", like "Home on the Range", "The Jungle Book II", "Peter Pan II" and "Brother Bear". Any normal viewer would consider these marvelously fluid and colourful material in comparison to cheap Anime or cracky flash cartoons; so why do critics pan the art? They obviously see something we the normal viewers do not.
In addition, "might does not equal right". Might can be defined as the strength of a single person or a collective group; the power of numbers, really. Just because "everyone thinks this way" doesn't mean that those people are correct. Indeed, sometimes such logic leads to groupthink, in which a group isolates all opposing opinions and come to a false conclusion of agreement/certainty.
@Mog:
And yes, I actually am an artist. But I don't think that gives me more right to judge artwork than other people. In fact, I think hardly anything does. Taste can't be argued, like I think you stated yourself. I say the quality of the art in FMA is pretty high, and I like the style to boot. If you disagree, that's how you view it…. But you just can't pass that off as fact, even if simply because of the fact I alone disagree so firmly.
Artistry does give you a foundation, especially in something like courts. Second only to solid evidence, "expert opinions" assume someone has perfect his/her craft to the point of acknowledging quality, situations, or possibilities in all simmilar situations. Even if your foundation was gained "illegally" (like a Christian Fundementalist going through college with a degree in evolutionary biology and yet sill supports creationism, having obtained a degree only as foundation for explaining why evolution is wrong), you still are as good a judge of artwork as I, perhaps better or worse but assuredly superior to the average manga reader.
I got in an argument with Mozz on another forum over taste (I argued Final Fantasy Advent Children was one of the worst fables ever in the history of storytelling), so I recognize your position, though I won't result to the somewhat stubborn arguments he gave.
@Mog:
A lot of the things you listed to prove the anime's superiority were subjective by themselves here. How can ''superior character development'' be presented factually?
"Development" is a broad term, but it implies an expansion. A flat character that develops complexities in thought over the progression of a story can be defined as character development for our purposes, though that development can be either favourable or despised. Simply going into detail regarding a character's background adds a degree of depth to that character, enhancing development; hence, a Homunculus like Greed, however mysterious his origins may be, is more developed than Gluttony, who has no background at all.
@Mog:
Or ''voices'' even? There are multiple instances in anime I just think people are extremely miscast. Or ''movement''. There's plenty of movement in One Piece, but a lot of the episodes I still consider to be crappily animated and painful to watch.
Whether or not a voice is "miscast" is irrelevant; the addition of sound alone adds another sense to the FMA story for interpretation. Sound is essential; hence, the manga tries to illustrate this by creating sound effects, if not for realism than for an enhancement of enjoyment. As powerful as the imagination is, such is no real subsitute for actual narration. Historically, stories were told by word of mouth; as such, we humans are predisposed to favour auditorial stimulation over reading. This is why teaching other students is more effective than having them work out of a textbook; it's not just an issue of motivation, but of stimulation
The same applies to movement, though less so than sound. Television creates the illusion of movement, much like the manga does with action lines and whatnot. However, illussions can be better crafted than other ones; even if many One Piece episodes are poorly done, there are others that are well done. Even so, both offer more in terms of stimulation (or, realism) than manga.
@Mog:
Granted, English isn't my native language… Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the thought behind the phrase ''hypothesis'' here. But listing opinions to support an opinion doesn't really work for me. And... That's my whole point. I don't you think you can prove why something is better than something else, especially using shakey arguments like those you just listed. It just so happens you like the movement, animation, voices and plot in the anime, but this most certainly doesn't go for everybody else.
I'm not supporting an opinion with an opinion.
Facts:
1. Anime has colour.
2. Anime has sound.
3. Anime has movement (some).Manga can have colour on splashes, but it generally doesn't. So, if there's more in an Anime, and more usually implies better, does that mean Anime is better than manga? That was my original assertion; does it hold true?
@Mog:
I think the point you're trying to make is that you're backing up your view with what you consider substantial reasoning… While I am not. Well, here's why: I don't think there's any way you can reason opinions. Or even back them up factually. If someone disagrees with you, it's entirely a matter of taste, mentality and a whole lot of other things. The things you consider substantial reasoning might not be reasonable at all to others. And it's always like that.
Reason, facts, and data can contradict one another. Mathematics is all reason and sometimes mathematicians reach "paradoxes" where a mathematical formulae cannot be proved nor disproved. Surveys frequntly dispute the information of other surveys…and numbers lie.
Opinions are required to establish an assertion. Everything else is mere support; without an opinion, what good are the facts? We get nowhere fast.
...
Now, seriously, guys. Writing these dissertaions tires me and I would rather not argue anymore. I was GOING to devote today to editing the APwiki...but now I've gone and gotten myself sleepy so I think I'll crash. Pity Negima didn't come out today. :/
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wholey crow, I miss one day here, and look what happens. debate city. I hate to see everyone argue. Can we just accept everyone's different opinions. We can all like different things.
I like the anime. Manga is good too. I've never been much of a reader though, so I tend to watch more anime. I'd like to read the manga when I have the time and the money. A lot of people say it's good. I've seen some artwork from the manga. I think the art in the anime is better, but the manga art has a unique look that I am drawn to as well. How much longer is the manga going to go on for? It would be fun if i could get it all at once and have a FMA manga-a-thon. Well, that's my humble opinion.
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Ah ha, I'll just stay out of the manga vs anime debate. I like them both.
I'm in the process of making a Riza Hawkeye costume, as the unfinished product thus far can be seen here: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?p=209874#post209874 But I also took a few silly PJ pics I thought you guys might appreciate.
Yes, I have FMA pajamas and a Roy plushie. I am a dork.
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Where'd you get the FMA pajamas!!!?
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I got the FMA PJs at Otakon. I paid way too much for them. And Ack! My space is down. I'll probably be reposting cosplay stuff in the new forum for it eventually.
Has anyone seen the recent chapter of the manga? All I can say is WTF to the thing with Riza. (and god damn it's so hawt someone paint it on my back!)
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Arrrgh! No, I haven't! I've been looking for Shonen Gangan in the conbini for days now so I can read it!
WHAT THING ON RIZA'S BACK!!!?
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It's the Salamander Alchemic Circle that's on Roy's gloves.
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It is, but it's a lot more than simply that. It could mean a LOT of things…Some of the possibilities of which are extremely disturbing.
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Okay, finally got to read it in the conbini . . .
Hooooooly shit, that's a big tattoo. And yeah, the salamander circle is just the core of it, there's a lot more of it on there. And since it's partially covered by a big scar you know it's pretty old, not a recent addition.
And I also loved Armstrong in this chapter. Now he knows the secret of the government, but rather than be all shattered about how he killed innocent lives for nothing he decided to stick with the military to keep fighting, in his own way, for justice.
I guess that's what I really love about the manga over the anime. The characters don't wallow in their angst for ages, they suck it up and keep going.
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At the end of the anime they DON'T wallow in angst, and do exactly as you said - suck it up and keep going. Unfortunately, then they took all the hope they set up at the end of the series and ruined it for the most part in the movie. Oh well. I can't wait to see the chibi shorts in the OAVs! (The Chibi Greed on the promo just KILLED me with his evil cuteness!)
The FMA manga is really awesome. Chapter 39 owns my soul….I knew Mustang was bad ass, but that proved him to be a whole new level of bad ass. And that tatoo twist has me twisting in my seat! I really want to know exactly what it is. It's definitely old...POSSIBLE SPOILERS
One theory is that perhaps this means Riza was in cahoots with Wrath. Another is that it's something Roy had her get to protect her. I'm kind of doubtful on both those theories, but you really never know. Argh, I don't want to wait another few weeks! Oh well…I still have pleanty of old chapters to catch up on in the mean time.
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What!! Chibi Oav's!!!! Must Find These Scrumptios Delicasies!!
EDIT: HEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY CAPS LOCK?!
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Hi I am a new fan of FMA and from what I have seen of it so far all I can say is that I LOVE IT :wub: Yaaaaaaay ED :love:
Please please could someone post some links for me to great FMA sites. I've already found FMA.com but can't find anyothers that are as good :bawling:
Also, if someone can tell me where I can download the openings in video clip form I will be forever greatfull.
One more ? I am trying to download the episodes from torrent sites like anime yumi and box torrents and I noticed that they had the bilingual episodes on there but when I tried to download them the download said that there was a problem connecting to the trackers :urg: Does anyone here know anyother torrent sites where I can download the bilingual episodes or how to surpass this problem?
Sorry for all of the questions and thankyou :happy:
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FMA's an awesome series. Regardless of the bickering that's gone on in the thread, I totally recommend checking out both the anime and manga. They're both great in their own way.
The manga you can get at mangatraders.com, stoptazmo.com…Up to volume 6 is available in American bookstores.
Episodes...you can find them all on You Tube as far as I know. You'll have to torrent hunt...I DL'd them on Direct Connect YEARS ago. Funimation did an awesome job with both the sub and dub (this is coming from someone who normally hates dubs) Up to volume 8 is out in stores (episode...30 something) They're well worth the money, they come with booklets that are practically mini artbooks.
As for sites...not much help there. I'm not as involved with FMA as I am with One Piece. I follow some communities on LJ and that's about it.
Oh, and as for the OAVs...Check this out: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/aisubeki_hime/aef231b3.jpg
Crack. Pure crack.
…I should put up my FMA cosplay skit...
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There are Spoilers in this post for anime episodes 25 and 51 - Read at you own risk - (edited by Seta just to add a little safety before we get a better spoiler function going)
I find this series intriguing (more so than even One Piece) with it's likable characters, humor, and action. Hiromu Arakawa's portrayal of lachemy is interesting and quite thought provoking. I found the last episode quite a nice ending to the series; the only qualm I have about it is Envy turning into a freaking DRAGON. That was retarded. >.>
As an afterthought, Maes Hughes' death was the only moment in any show, movie, or book where I actually shed tears. Go Hughes. waves an Alicia banner
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@Seta:
FMA's an awesome series. Regardless of the bickering that's gone on in the thread, I totally recommend checking out both the anime and manga. They're both great in their own way.
The manga you can get at mangatraders.com, stoptazmo.com…Up to volume 6 is available in American bookstores.
Episodes...you can find them all on You Tube as far as I know. You'll have to torrent hunt...I DL'd them on Direct Connect YEARS ago. Funimation did an awesome job with both the sub and dub (this is coming from someone who normally hates dubs) Up to volume 8 is out in stores (episode...30 something) They're well worth the money, they come with booklets that are practically mini artbooks.
As for sites...not much help there. I'm not as involved with FMA as I am with One Piece. I follow some communities on LJ and that's about it.
Oh, and as for the OAVs...Check this out: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/aisubeki_hime/aef231b3.jpg
Crack. Pure crack.
…I should put up my FMA cosplay skit...
Thank you Thank you :love: That OVA was sooo cute. Speaking of OVA's doesn't FMA have one?
As for episode downloads, I was actually able to get episodes 1-25 (duel audio) downloading happily through bitorrent. It needed something to be unlocked to be able to acess it. Only 145 hours to go :sleep:
Thanks for the manga and youtube info. Thing is though the quality on UT is not very good sadly but otherwsie it is a great sorce.
As for the TV openings, I am still in search for good quality downloads of them. Anyone know where they can be found?
Thanks again
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http://www.notashrimp.com/
I found this site really informative when I first got interested in FMA. I wish they would update more.