Wrongness in general

[LuffydaPirateKing]

@Kaze:

I don't hate Sabo as a character. What I hate is when, why, and how he showed up again. The motivation for Luffy (in my own personal opinion) to not give up after losing ace was his crew. To me, that was a growing up kind of moment for Luffy, true character development that didn't involve a massive fight against a huge villain or anything of the sort. Luffy had to come to terms that he lost not only Sabo at a young age, but now Ace as well. He had lost all reason and will to continue living on, he thought he was alone. But, he soon realized he still had his crew who means more to him than One Piece itself.

Then, 3 ish arcs later out of fucking left field Sabo's all, "Hey bud, :D sorry I could be there to help keep ace alive, I was busy waiting for the perfect dues ex machina moment to save you and help you out because you're the main character lol."

No. Just no. All of that growth and character development is now IMO wasted.

That's what I don't like.

respectable opinion. Im glad he's back personally just bc i like happy plot developments. Yet i still watch GOT for some reason

[MiyamotoMusashi]

@Kaze:

I don't hate Sabo as a character. What I hate is when, why, and how he showed up again. The motivation for Luffy (in my own personal opinion) to not give up after losing ace was his crew. To me, that was a growing up kind of moment for Luffy, true character development that didn't involve a massive fight against a huge villain or anything of the sort. Luffy had to come to terms that he lost not only Sabo at a young age, but now Ace as well. He had lost all reason and will to continue living on, he thought he was alone. But, he soon realized he still had his crew who means more to him than One Piece itself.

Then, 3 ish arcs later out of fucking left field Sabo's all, "Hey bud, :D sorry I could be there to help keep ace alive, I was busy waiting for the perfect dues ex machina moment to save you and help you out because you're the main character lol."

No. Just no. All of that growth and character development is now IMO wasted.

That's what I don't like.

How does the appearance of Sabo 3 arcs later influence the hardship Luffy had to go through in order to stay true to his ideals and become ever more determined by realizing how important the existence of his crew is? That makes no sense at all. It neither makes it void nor does it cheapen Luffy´s experience.
That´s like saying that some child who became an orphan, who had to go through many hardships in order to survive and who grew a lot tougher and stronger because of it would revert to being a helpless child upon finding out that maybe one parent is alive after all. I mean what?

[Kaze]

@LuffydaPirateKing:

respectable opinion. Im glad he's back personally just bc i like happy plot developments. Yet i still watch GOT for some reason

lololol I also watch it. it's addicting in a (good)bad way.
@MiyamotoMusashi:

How does the appearance of Sabo 3 arcs later influence the hardship Luffy had to go through in order to stay true to his ideals and become ever more determined by realizing how important the existence of his crew is? That makes no sense at all. It neither makes it void nor does it cheapen Luffy´s experience.
That´s like saying that some child who became an orphan, who had to go through many hardships in order to survive and who grew a lot tougher and stronger because of it would revert to being a helpless child upon finding out that maybe one parent is alive after all. I mean what?

It's actually nothing like an orphan growing up and then finding out they might have a parent alive because they were never there in the first place.
Luffy had Ace AND Sabo when he was young, they shared experiences together, they were the best of friends. Sabo "dies" they morn move on. Now 15 something years later Ace passes away and Luffy is freaking out, He is a million times stronger than he was as a child and had the strength to change things this time, but alas he failed. He lost his family and it was heartbreaking to him, literally. Then, in the darkness he found light, in that of his crew. His new family, he could continue on, he could grow. " I'll train for two years so that I'm strong enough to protect my family/crew from everything and never let what happened to my brothers, happened ever again." Re-enter Sabo. "oh nvm lol I can take it easy again, I've got Sabo here now. "

btw it's still just an opinion, my friend. ^_^
Sabo is the new ace. He literally has ace's DF, and now luffy once again has a big brother.

[MiyamotoMusashi]

@Kaze:

lololol I also watch it. it's addicting in a (good)bad way.

It's actually nothing like an orphan growing up and then finding out they might have a parent alive because they were never there in the first place.
Luffy had Ace AND Sabo when he was young, they shared experiences together, they were the best of friends. Sabo "dies" they morn move on. Now 15 something years later Ace passes away and Luffy is freaking out, He is a million times stronger than he was as a child and had the strength to change things this time, but alas he failed. He lost his family and it was heartbreaking to him, literally. Then, in the darkness he found light, in that of his crew. His new family, he could continue on, he could grow. " I'll train for two years so that I'm strong enough to protect my family/crew from everything and never let what happened to my brothers, happened ever again." Re-enter Sabo. "oh nvm lol I can take it easy again, I've got Sabo here now. "

btw it's still just an opinion, my friend. ^_^
Sabo is the new ace. He literally has ace's DF, and now luffy once again has a big brother.

That was implied in my post, a child that became an orphan and finds out that his parents or one parent did not die after all. Everything he has been through after the supposed death made him stronger and tougher and the survival of such parents would not make such a growth void.
I am not saying that i particularly like Sabo, don´t get me wrong. While i do find his background story interesting, he was introduced at a time in which we still felt the aftermath of Ace´s death, hence the flashback served more as a bittersweet portrayal on how Luffy and Ace got so close in the first place, Sabo felt like a third wheel, so i do not find that his character has a particular positive or negative influence on the story or on Luffy and his growth. Right now, he is just another brother whose personality is not that appealing so far but his position as Revo´s second-in-command and the potential that he may serve as a way for Luffy to completely overcom Ace´s death by actually saving Sabo, which will in my opinion happen, maybe even against Akainu himself.

[SuburbanErrorist]

Akainu; You kids don't learn, my Magma burns fire.

[Triceron]

The immediate one that comes to mind is the Shichibukai and the idea that they would all be enemies of the Strawhats that they'd have to defeat. I totally didn't expect any of them to be allies along the way.

Same goes for the 11 Supernovas and expecting a crewmember to fight each of them (ie Brook vs Apoo, Nami vs Bonney, Zoro vs Law etc). Could still happen but I doubt the story will ever move in that direction where the Strawhats are opposing all other Supernovas in equal fashion.

[RyaPhoenix]

@Triceron:

The immediate one that comes to mind is the Shichibukai and the idea that they would all be enemies of the Strawhats that they'd have to defeat. I totally didn't expect any of them to be allies along the way.

Same goes for the 11 Supernovas and expecting a crewmember to fight each of them (ie Brook vs Apoo, Nami vs Bonney, Zoro vs Law etc). Could still happen but I doubt the story will ever move in that direction where the Strawhats are opposing all other Supernovas in equal fashion.

We only have on left, and I honestly think they're gonna either be the next opponent, or they will fight them down the line.

[skully]

I have another one:
One of the Gorosei resembles Gan Fall, so I thought they were the same person.

[SamTheDrunk]

I thought Rocianate originally had the ope-ope fruit.

…and i thought Rebecca would defeat Diamante and become the new hero of the Colosseum. ah, how naive I was.

[BingBang]

Everything is right for me.

[MiyamotoMusashi]

@SamTheDrunk:

I thought Rocianate originally had the ope-ope fruit.

…and i thought Rebecca would defeat Diamante and become the new hero of the Colosseum. ah, how naive I was.

Though if she had defeated him, that would not have been that good either to be honest, kind of a stretch that a seasoned pirate would lose against her but she could have done so much more than just cry all the time

[uniaka ikuzakas]

Back in marineford I used to think Mihawk has some kind of illusion DF and he uses it to scare his enemies. When he used it to make Luffy see his arm cut and retract his attack.

[Doffy. D Evil]

@Kaze:

lololol I also watch it. it's addicting in a (good)bad way.

It's actually nothing like an orphan growing up and then finding out they might have a parent alive because they were never there in the first place.
Luffy had Ace AND Sabo when he was young, they shared experiences together, they were the best of friends. Sabo "dies" they morn move on. Now 15 something years later Ace passes away and Luffy is freaking out, He is a million times stronger than he was as a child and had the strength to change things this time, but alas he failed. He lost his family and it was heartbreaking to him, literally. Then, in the darkness he found light, in that of his crew. His new family, he could continue on, he could grow. " I'll train for two years so that I'm strong enough to protect my family/crew from everything and never let what happened to my brothers, happened ever again." Re-enter Sabo. "oh nvm lol I can take it easy again, I've got Sabo here now. "

btw it's still just an opinion, my friend. ^_^
Sabo is the new ace. He literally has ace's DF, and now luffy once again has a big brother.

Except that never happened . And Sabo appearing in this arc did not in any way revert Luffy to pre-marineford . Just look at the chapter when Luffy prepares to use gear fourth .

[Kaze]

@Doffy.:

Except that never happened . And Sabo appearing in this arc did not in any way revert Luffy to pre-marineford . Just look at the chapter when Luffy prepares to use gear fourth .

Oda didn't have to be on the nose about him reverting before marine ford, he didn't spell it out for everyone by writing in the dialogue or drawing it out in actual panels. It's a feeling. And it's not just Luffy's character development that Sabo's return effects.

It feels like the first part of the grand line all over again. They meet a big whale, go to an island with strange creatures, a snowy island; they have their adventures. When the get to alabasta, they get into some trouble and luffy's brother Ace shows up to help him out and save the day.

In the new world, they go to an island with fish man who you could call strange in appearance, then they meet a lot of whales, got to a snowy island and have their own adventures. When they show up to Dressora, they get into some trouble and Luffy's other brother shows up to help him out and save the day.

At first I didn't mind the similarities to the grand line, I actually enjoyed most of it, but when sabo returned, it was like the straw that broke the camel's back. Sabo's return not only undermines all of Luffy's character development, but in actually impacts the storytelling as we'll.

Again this is all just my opinion. Lol so I hope no one is taking me seriously.

[G_soildier]

@Kaze:

Oda didn't have to be on the nose about him reverting before marine ford, he didn't spell it out for everyone by writing in the dialogue or drawing it out in actual panels. It's a feeling. And it's not just Luffy's character development that Sabo's return effects.

It feels like the first part of the grand line all over again. They meet a big whale, go to an island with strange creatures, a snowy island; they have their adventures. When the get to alabasta, they get into some trouble and luffy's brother Ace shows up to help him out and save the day.

In the new world, they go to an island with fish man who you could call strange in appearance, then they meet a lot of whales, got to a snowy island and have their own adventures. When they show up to Dressora, they get into some trouble and Luffy's other brother shows up to help him out and save the day.

At first I didn't mind the similarities to the grand line, I actually enjoyed most of it, but when sabo returned, it was like the straw that broke the camel's back. Sabo's return not only undermines all of Luffy's character development, but in actually impacts the storytelling as we'll.

Again this is all just my opinion. Lol so I hope no one is taking me seriously.

Ace saved them in Alabasta? :ninja::blink:

[desa]

@G_soildier:

Ace saved them in Alabasta? :ninja::blink:

Saved them from being captured by Smokey.

[Smudger]

I never knew why Roger accepted death given everything we've seen within the series.

[desa]

@Smudger:

I never knew why Roger accepted death given everything we've seen within the series.

He was going to die anyway. He became awesome like he wanted, he managed to secure his friends, and even got to make a kid. So since he had a fulfilling life he chose a way in which he could send others to follow his footsteps.

[Smudger]

@desa:

He was going to die anyway. He became awesome like he wanted, he managed to secure his friends, and even got to make a kid. So since he had a fulfilling life he chose a way in which he could send others to follow his footsteps.

He abandoned his child, wife, and crew…all to fuel his speech that created the age of pirates.

It was a great way to go out. But somewhat seems a bit dramatic given power of recent DF's. It'll be explained at some point no doubt, but for now it just seems incredibly selfish (which is in his nature mentioned by Garp) if another route was possible. I'll be a little bit irked if the reasoning behind his illness doesn't correlate with his decision to do as his did.

[desa]

@Smudger:

He abandoned his child, wife, and crew…all to fuel his speech that created the age of pirates.

He made sure his crew wouldn't be killed when he's done and had Garp take care of his child. Considering everything associated with him was destroyed, he surely made good choice by distancing them from him.

He didn't have much time left. Crocus actually extended his lifetime for longer than expected. He could never have raise his kid and had he not disband the crew the Marines would have prey on them once he's gone.

The only person who seemed to have grudge on his choice is Ace… So if those who knew don't mind and were protected I don't see how that makes him selfish.

[Smudger]

@desa:

He made sure his crew wouldn't be killed when he's done and had Garp take care of his child. Considering everything associated with him was destroyed, he surely made good choice by distancing them from him.

His crew's safety was not guaranteed, nor his sons in comparison to leaving his son in the protection of his first mate, which is apparent given raleigh's role during and after the shaobondy arc.

He didn't have much time left. Crocus actually extended his lifetime for longer than expected.

Again this feels a little bit cheap after seeing Mansherry and laws healing abilities.

He could never have raise his kid

Exactly, but leaving Ace in the dark about his past wasn't what I'd call model parenting.

had he not disband the crew the Marines would have prey on them once he's gone.

Garp allowed him to become a pirate and join one of the Yonkou, shortly after being left in the care of mountain bandits. I currently don't see how that was the lesser of two evils. Again this just highlights how odd it was to choose Garp over someone in his crew. The only reason it happened this way was to tie Ace, Luffy and Sabo together.

The only person who seemed to have grudge on his choice is Ace

Who in reality should have the final say on whether or not the choices made were right.

So if those who knew don't mind and were protected I don't see how that makes him selfish.

Again….Garp himself stated he was at times incredibly selfish. Its not exactly a surprise. Just annoying considering the role model he is being used as towards people seeking his title.

[Jameswuds]

@Smudger:

Again….Garp himself stated he was at times incredibly selfish. Its not exactly a surprise. Just annoying considering the role model he is being used as towards people seeking his title.

Well, he's a pirate and he's looked up to by pirates. It can only be expected that he has his flaws.

[desa]

@Smudger:

His crew's safety was not guaranteed

He disband them in secret and the marines never captured any. Even Rayleigh position is a rumor.

nor his sons in comparison to leaving his son in the protection of his first mate

He would need to know where Ray was and then travel with his pregnant wife and leave her with a criminal. I believe a guy part of the system has a greater change of making Ace goes unnoticed. It also gives him the chance to have a decent life if he chose to

Again this feels a little bit cheap after seeing Mansherry and laws healing abilities.

You may find it cheap. It is still what happened.

Exactly, but leaving Ace in the dark about his past wasn't what I'd call model parenting.

Where was it ever implied he was in the dark about it. How could he even keep him in the dark since he was already dead.

Garp allowed him to become a pirate and join one of the Yonkou, shortly after being left in the care of mountain bandits. I currently don't see how that was the lesser of two evils. Again this just highlights how odd it was to choose Garp over someone in his crew. The only reason it happened this way was to tie Ace, Luffy and Sabo together.

Because Garp is a respected figure of the marines and will be able to make sure Rouge and Ace don't pay for his crime. We don't even know if he had contact to Ray when she got pregnant and it would make it would only makes Ace's future's more uncertain.

Who in reality should have the final say on whether or not the choices made were right.

Why would that be? They never met each other. And He couldn't see the future.

[Smudger]

@desa:

He disband them in secret and the marines never captured any. Even Rayleigh position is a rumor.

Which still means that none of their safety was guaranteed.

He would need to know where Ray was and then travel with his pregnant wife and leave her with a criminal.

So youre saying that abandoning Portgas on her own to die during labour was a better option than delivering her to "a criminal" Raleigh? (vivre card)

I believe a guy part of the system has a greater change of making Ace goes unnoticed.

Ace himself stated that he wouldn't have been able to join the marines due to his blood. Garp doesn't negate this statement, suggesting his presence would have been uncovered.

It also gives him the chance to have a decent life if he chose to

Raleigh's doing fine.

You may find it cheap. It is still what happened.

Indeed.

Where was it ever implied he was in the dark about it. How could he even keep him in the dark since he was already dead.

By leaving him with someone just as selfish and reckless, that no doubt would do a half-assed job at raising a child.

The point is…Garp left them with Dadan, a mountain bandit, with nothing else to guide them, or show them their past. Heck...luffy didn't even know he had a father till after Enies Lobby. Roger had multiple other choices to go by to insure not only the safety of his child, but the mental wellbeing too, but he chose Garp, which later came back to bite him in the ass as his son not only disowned him, but also died as a response to his poor choice of parenting material.

Because Garp is a respected figure of the marines and will be able to make sure Rouge and Ace don't pay for his crime. We don't even know if he had contact to Ray when she got pregnant and it would make it would only makes Ace's future's more uncertain.

HEY I've got a swell idea….lets get someone pregnant while on death's doorstep, responsibility level: ROGER!

Why would that be? They never met each other. And He couldn't see the future.

Most wanted man impregnates and abandons mother after finding out he's going to die. Then hands delivers his child to the second most selfish and irresponsible guy within the known OP world.

Oh yeah this just reeks of 'father of the year' material.

Well this is about as much as we can say about this. More material could be added, but until we get better clarity into the past during future chapters, I'd say we are at some kind of wall. :D