I want to buy Manga volumes for One Piece. But I want to know if they censored it. Please help me.
Question
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The American releases are not censored.
(Hope I'm not wrong in assuming that you want to but them in English!)
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They're not censored, but the language is toned down a bit. That's about it. I also hope you don't mind Zoro being "Zolo" and the Going Merry being the "Merry Go."
Also, there are some bad puns because of the toned-down language:
Zoro: "You darn, dirty half-fish!"
Usopp: "Once I get the Merry Go, I'll Go Merrily away from here."Fortunately, however, none of the images are edited. Even the Manji on the Fishman in Volume 8 is kept. The one image I think they'll edit (If any) will be Blackbeard's Flag / Ace's tattoo. They'll DEFINITELY have to edit it in Germany, since the Swastika is illegal there.
So, if you don't mind the toned-down dialogue and the occasional bad pun, then you'll find the English Manga acceptable. I do, because I get tired of reading all the manga pages online.
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**I's not censored, but like "Fire Fist" Ace said the language is somewhat toned-down.
And do they HAVE to edit Whitebeards symbol? Snce it's not the Swastika. If I'm not mistaken thats the symbol for power.**
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Ok. i see how it is…..so is it worth getting it???
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no there not going to edit it because the symbol on ace's back isn't swastika
its manji so there shouldn't be any problem (thats why they left it on the merman's potatooo. Yea its worth it -
I think they're worth getting, just to have. Sometimes the overly santizied dialogue is a little annoying, but it's not anywhere near as bad as the anime dub.
Usopp: "Once I get the Merry Go, I'll Go Merrily away from here."
I actually thought that was funny. Although I don't like "Merry Go". It's not like it makes any more sense than "Going Merry". And it sounds like Merry-go-round. I always thought what he was trying to get across was more like "going merrily".
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(I wonder how people will know the language is toned down when they don't know any Japanese…)
(And I also wonder if they know the fact official name of Going Merry is "Going Merry Go" in Japanese...)
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(And I also wonder if they know the fact official name of Going Merry is "Going Merry Go" in Japanese…)
But doesn't "Go" refer to the fact that it's a ship?
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It's just the context, Ocean.
For example: If someone's offering to kill me, I'm not gonna tell them, "Eat Worms". I'm gonna distinctly tell them, "Eat Shit!", and that's exactly what Sanji said to Gin. That's gonna be a big disappointment later on when Smoker says his famous line to the Kaigun's higher-ups. "Tell them to eat worms!" doesn't exactly convey what Smoker was trying to get across to the government.
In some instances, it's normal. "Cut the crap!" or "Crap-Geezer" is fine. But sometimes, it just doesn't convey the raw emotion of what the person is trying to convey.
One last example: When Mihawk slices Zoro and he recieves his famous scar, Luffy yells, "Darn you!" when he assaults Mihawk. I'd be a lot more angry than "Darn you!" if my best friend just got his chest sliced open, I'm sorry.
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I think they're worth getting, just to have. Sometimes the overly santizied dialogue is a little annoying, but it's not anywhere near as bad as the anime dub.
I actually thought that was funny. Although I don't like "Merry Go". It's not like it makes any more sense than "Going Merry". And it sounds like Merry-go-round. I always thought what he was trying to get across was more like "going merrily".
Frankly, I prefer "Merry Go" because it means basically the same thing and sounds less like a euphamism for drug use.
"Dude! I was going merry ALL WEEKEND! You shoulda SEEN me! You don't have to believe just me though, ask that pauve giraffe and that turqouse duck I was hagnin with."
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you know you can actually ask your question in the title of the thread?
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The language is not the only matter; when 4Kids recieved the dub, the OP Viz manga moved further and further away from the Japanese. Stephen's scripts are nigh literal translations of the Japanese, but in comparison to the original raws and Viz's translation, Viz's contextual phrasing is very obvious. I suppose such is no big deal, but, like the language, it frequently distorts dramatic tension and can be also quite annoying.
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It's only annoying if you have a stick up your ass that could be used as bulding material.
Seriously, the whole fan-pretention thing gets annoying. They made it a little more colloquially English. Whoop de doo da. Don't compare what they did to 4kids, for crying out loud. Sanji still smokes a cigarette, it's still gum-gum pistol, and at no point has ANYONE said "WHAM KICK!!!"
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@Fire Fist:
It's just the context, Ocean.
For example: If someone's offering to kill me, I'm not gonna tell them, "Eat Worms". I'm gonna distinctly tell them, "Eat Shit!", and that's exactly what Sanji said to Gin. That's gonna be a big disappointment later on when Smoker says his famous line to the Kaigun's higher-ups. "Tell them to eat worms!" doesn't exactly convey what Smoker was trying to get across to the government.
In some instances, it's normal. "Cut the crap!" or "Crap-Geezer" is fine. But sometimes, it just doesn't convey the raw emotion of what the person is trying to convey.
One last example: When Mihawk slices Zoro and he recieves his famous scar, Luffy yells, "Darn you!" when he assaults Mihawk. I'd be a lot more angry than "Darn you!" if my best friend just got his chest sliced open, I'm sorry.
Exactly.
A bad/derogatory word of some sort has to be said.
And in english that runs a whole gamut from
"Old Navy Commercial language" to "Howard Stern language".
And one must choose widely from the area between to convey a scene correctly.Oh yes, the topic.
They're worth buying. I get the Tankos myself, the Viz versions aren't definitive enough personally. But thats just me.Have fun with em. Good stuff.
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wait if does anyone know if the German version of One Piece censored the tatoo on acs's back?
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wait if does anyone know if the German version of One Piece censored the tatoo on acs's back?
Deffie-Natalie! The german censoring goes so far that the symbol is just the skull with the mustache an nothing else. Thumbs down
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Seriously, the whole fan-pretention thing gets annoying. They made it a little more colloquially English. Whoop de doo da. Don't compare what they did to 4kids, for crying out loud. Sanji still smokes a cigarette, it's still gum-gum pistol, and at no point has ANYONE said "WHAM KICK!!!"
So, basically, you want me to not say anything at all, because if I introduce an opinion into your feeble brain, you just might start to see my point of view? You sound like those jolly arse Republicans that call a Clinton stupid whenever he appears on television, but we have "Bushisms" whenever our president fouls up a sentence. Keep it up, comarade.
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I criticize, who I want, when I want, and in my eyes, Viz is an even worse offender than 4Kids. We all expected 4Kids to screw up OP; they met our expectations quite well. I did not expect Viz, a company that was once as bad as Tokyopop, to devolve because of pressure from 4Kids. This is the polar opposite of what happened in the 4Kids situation; I cannot stand people utterly bashing 4Kids Drum arc because it's a massive improvement over the Krieg/Arlong arcs, but in this case, we had a high quaity manga depreciate into a medium-quality one. Unacceptable! It's not just the language paraphrasing-that was just the last straw-but the whole Jump layout, the packaging, the font, and the quality as a whole. Jump Graphic Novels are the kind of paper trash that keeps my house fire burning long into the night.
Then again, I suppose I am being a bit harsh, but this is because my views are poisoned with what I know is to come. It's true foresight; OP becomes epic post Drum. It transcends all previous stories and blasts them out of the water. As of yet, Viz and 4Kids have handled the East Blue saga, weakest of all the major story arcs, with butterfingers; I fear that both companies may actually fumble when Alabasta comes along.
Deffie-Natalie! The german censoring goes so far that the symbol is just the skull with the mustache an nothing else. Thumbs down
Anime, manga, or both? Also, I fail to see why the German people are so sensitive on this matter, or perhaps they fear such a thing because of Euro/American retaliation? The entire Civil Rights Movement, of which was trying to break hatred grounded in sterotypes of American Blacks, has been completely and utterly disgraced by modern black culture. Sure, it's cool and all that people want to act and sound like black people, more out of awe than mockery, but these new sterotypes (which are, unfortunately, accurate in many urban areas) would cause widespread panic back in the 1950's. What ever happened to modesty?
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Anime, manga, or both? Also, I fail to see why the German people are so sensitive on this matter, or perhaps they fear such a thing because of Euro/American retaliation?
Just the manga, I think. Havent seen a german anime episode with Ace lately, but since the original anime changed the symbol already I don´t think that there was any need to change it.
As for why the germans are so sensetive about this matter, it´s because there´s still more then enough dorks out there who just wait to label germans as Nazi whenever they say that they are proud to be germans, arrest foreign criminals or defend the politic system over here.
You can´t imagine how hard it is for them because at any corner there´s people just waiting to yell Nazi if a german person says a wrong thing. It´s very stupid but I´ve seen it often for my entire life here. =(
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@Octogon:
And do they HAVE to edit Whitebeards symbol? Snce it's not the Swastika. If I'm not mistaken thats the symbol for power.
I find it funny that in Japan the Swastika is the symbol for a temple. The Germans just adopted it for the nazis
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Just the manga, I think. Havent seen a german anime episode with Ace lately, but since the original anime changed the symbol already I don´t think that there was any need to change it.
Whoops, I forgot that little factoid of information. Well, I guess Germany won't edit Whitebeard's sign…but 4Kids assuredly will. If Manji are bad, tide and true Crosses are worse.
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As for why the germans are so sensetive about this matter, it´s because there´s still more then enough dorks out there who just wait to label germans as Nazi whenever they say that they are proud to be germans, arrest foreign criminals or defend the politic system over here.
That's true. Whenever I tell people I speak German or that I'd like to take more German classes, they look at me like I'm nuts. One guy was even like 'But why? Germans are Nazis!" It's a pretty strong stereotype though some people don't know it. My grandpa fought in WWII, but now when I think of Germany, I think of chocolate and beer. xD /OT
I did not expect Viz, a company that was once as bad as Tokyopop, to devolve because of pressure from 4Kids.I did not expect Viz, a company that was once as bad as Tokyopop, to devolve because of pressure from 4Kids.
I wouldn't blame it all on Viz. Their Naruto translations are kinda nuts as well. Rock Lee, whose nickname is 'thick/fuzzy eyebrows' in the fan translations is renamed 'unibrow' in Viz's (when he decidedly has TWO separate eyebrows). Neji's … somthing jutsu had been renamed the 'evil eye' and there's been references to the three stooges in it and a bunch of other stange things. I do think 4kids is a big factor when it comes to it, but Viz has it's own screwballs too it seems.
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I wouldn't blame it all on Viz. Their Naruto translations are kinda nuts as well. Rock Lee, whose nickname is 'thick/fuzzy eyebrows' in the fan translations is renamed 'unibrow' in Viz's (when he decidedly has TWO separate eyebrows). Neji's … somthing jutsu had been renamed the 'evil eye' and there's been references to the three stooges in it and a bunch of other stange things. I do think 4kids is a big factor when it comes to it, but Viz has it's own screwballs too it seems.
That's pathetic. Null produces high-quality translations within a week of a chapter's release, and Stephen/ooshi/ocean have given skillful translations within a day. Naruto manga get "jist" scanslations within ten minutes of a chapter's leakage on a major forum. Furthermore, while Viz does edit sound effects and switches graphic reading format (which is a ton of work), there is a massive decrease in quality. I compared Ranma 1/2's volume one (which was an early Viz production, which was why I once held them in high esteem) to Takahashi's original, and the detail is right up there with Akamatsu's Negima!.
Bleh…Viz appears to have mutated into a corporate-savvy Tokyopop. They're not even as innovative as their competitors; just a large manga bully. :glare:
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That's pathetic. Null produces high-quality translations within a week of a chapter's release, and Stephen/ooshi/ocean have given skillful translations within a day. Naruto manga get "jist" scanslations within ten minutes of a chapter's leakage on a major forum. Furthermore, while Viz does edit sound effects and switches graphic reading format (which is a ton of work), there is a massive decrease in quality. I compared Ranma 1/2's volume one (which was an early Viz production, which was why I once held them in high esteem) to Takahashi's original, and the detail is right up there with Akamatsu's Negima!.
Bleh…Viz appears to have mutated into a corporate-savvy Tokyopop. They're not even as innovative as their competitors; just a large manga bully. :glare:
Now let's all stay back and have a slight reality check here. We'll do this in three stages.
1: These companies need to make money. It's necessary. They are not run specifically for the fans to enjoy. Frankly, I have no problem with them doing what they think they need to do to stay in business (within reason. 4kids is unnaceptable.)
2: Viz is phenomenal because it exists at all. The swearing is creeping back in, they're just handling it with kid gloves because things are going nuts with the anime. Most of their changes are hardly worth mentioning, and the few that are aren't worth being loud about.
3: Guess what? If something is in japanese colloquialisms, they have to put it into american colloquialisms to sell it in the states. I'm sure there are plenty of usopp-undie wearing Otakus in the states, but they're trying to reach it out to the world at large.
Which, I often think, is the problem. Not with every OP fan of course, but people who say things like "the viz translation is the toilet paper I use at night…" it's not about being a fan of the work, it's about having a place where you feel exclusive. You're a rebel. And when you're a rebel you get to complain about people who understand your difference.
But then all of sudden people start liking the same thing….and you're not the resistance anymore, you're just a sad person who's a liiiiitle too obsessed with a cartoon show to be healthy. And as the realization sets in that they system really doesn't give a damn what you do leads to a sudden outporing of hatred for the people who read the work.
The best example is Stephen King, possible the greatest literary writer of the current age. All the people who call them selves "literary writers" hate him because the simple fact is, try as hard as they might, literature cannot be taught in and English class. So they complain a little or blather about communism for a while and tell themselves that the reason nobody reads their stuff is that the things they write are too smart for them anyway, who'd want trash like that to read their work.
And then stephen king comes along, and what he writes really is literature, (by the widely accepted definition of literature as "the truth even though it didn't happen") and everyone wants to read it, so the "literary writers" have no choice but to say King isn't really literature, lest they be forced to admit they've just been really educated depressed people for a long time.
So let's all take a step back, accept that we are not the saviors of mankind nor the holy guardians of the book of One Piece, and give our fellow men a little leeway as they try to balance accurate translation with what will keep their children fed.
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1: These companies need to make money. It's necessary. They are not run specifically for the fans to enjoy. Frankly, I have no problem with them doing what they think they need to do to stay in business (within reason. 4kids is unnaceptable.)
What total Viz-thumping bias. 4Kids is also doing what it thinks is necessary to make OP successful, and it's a total train wreck. WAIT…Ahh, and there's a sneering little voice in one's ear that says "It gets good ratings on Toonami", close to Naruto, in fact.
Then again, Viz's translation made OP a massively successful manga, right? Oops! It's not listed as one of the top-selling manga. Why, Naruto spins so many circles around OP, multiple volumes made the top ten list. Furthermore, I also seem to remember an expensive recall of volume that occured a while back.
2: Viz is phenomenal because it exists at all. The swearing is creeping back in, they're just handling it with kid gloves because things are going nuts with the anime. Most of their changes are hardly worth mentioning, and the few that are aren't worth being loud about.
'scuse me? Viz is god just because it's here? I notice how it is harder and harder to find a page on Viz's history, because, like all good businesses, it is imperative that they conceal, or at least bury, errors of the past in the sands of time. Though Viz is the largest manga/anime former communiations company, they have made errors in the past, even in "updated" versions of books (ex. first hand read: Ranma 1/2 bubble errors).
I know not of the "swearing" and "changes" issues you mention, simply because I have no Japanese raws, and I am unable to obtain some, but I do know enough to recognize that Viz tends to heavily edit almost all the content that sifts through their fingers, unless explicity stated otherwise (not sure if Fushigi Yugi's Genbu saga is altered much, nor Shoujo manga "Red River", but I might need to check). This illutrates that the company cannot conform products to the same level of quality, almost as if some are rushed out to rake in as much immediate profit as possible. Most of this material is Shoujo, though, as the Shounen stuff tends to take forever to get released.
3: Guess what? If something is in japanese colloquialisms, they have to put it into american colloquialisms to sell it in the states. I'm sure there are plenty of usopp-undie wearing Otakus in the states, but they're trying to reach it out to the world at large.
If I am not mistaken, OP is translated into French, German, Russian, Bohemian, Vulcan, and Martian. I doubt the world would flock to read an English translation, and I further doubt (with evidence from 4Kids.tv's forum) that fewer people who actually respect OP for what it is exist outside of Japan, Arlong Park, or East Blue. What links these three websites? Oda's original OP, of course; certainly not Viz!
Furthermore, I do not argue that paraphrasing or rephrasing is necessary, but sometimes such conflicts with a character's possible plot development. Take this hypothetical Usopp quote:
Usopp (Japanese): "I'm not sure what I should do. If I stay here, I will die".
Usopp (Viz): "I've gotta get out of here, or I'm gonna die!"This is a typical Viz-like "colloquialism". I will not undermine it's "Americanization", for it certainly has conformed quite nicely, but though the word choice is the same, the meaning is a tad different, and collectively, this paints a different view of a character's behavior. Even with plot-inducing development, the butchery of communication we call the English language can still nullify this by being terse, especially if the development is an internal struggle and not an illustrated fight. This phenomenon is frequently called "material lost in translation".
The latter indicates a decisive tendancy toward cowardness. There is indecision in the former. Stock characters and stereotypes frequently possess polar emotions and act in accordinance to them. Indecision, or a conflict of sorts, is a sign of complexity. As of right now, I am nitpicking, but only because such translations appear to be tendancies and are appearing more frequently. We all agree that what makes OP a superior Anime is character interaction and development; humourous, lighthearted discoveries (imagine first visiting Water 7) and tense, dramatic battles. The majority of these have not occured; the East Blue versions of these were Usopp v. Kuro Nekos, Sanji v. Gin, Usopp v. Chuu and Luffy v. Arlong. Every major and archvillan past Whisky Peak has had a dramatic battle, from Mr.3 to the BW officers through Bellamy and Eneru into CP9. If Viz continues to erode the characters like this, people will have a hard time understanding how, say, Usopp becomes Sogeking. Without the road of development, people will believe Usopp is simply hiding behind the mask of Sogeking, instead of being transcended by it. Born a coward, die a coward; first impressions are lasting.
Which, I often think, is the problem. Not with every OP fan of course, but people who say things like "the viz translation is the toilet paper I use at night…" it's not about being a fan of the work, it's about having a place where you feel exclusive. You're a rebel. And when you're a rebel you get to complain about people who understand your difference.
This is why I made a reference to Republicans (anyone who doesn't support Bush isn't being patriotic) and called you a comerade (because we all must be alike); you are treating your own opinion as if every person who reads OP believes the same thing, and further, that might is right. Sure, maybe I swim against stream at AP, but there are likely going to be fishies my same boat. Our pond has a small sampling size, though; roughy one hundred majorly active individuals, in comparison to the massive sea that is the US to which Viz attempts to cater(re?). Most of us are biased in the same way toward the original OP. To put your comment in perspective, Anime is just starting to become corporate-sponsored and mainstream (well, Animerica/Animitation, at least), so we're techically going against the flow as a collective body, as well.
I am ony here to incite doubt, which is what I love to do; throwing wrenches into clockwork and waiting for things to resolve. In reality, I am an utter Viz supporter, an exclusive purveyor of its products and a proud customer, with my first manga published by Viz and my first AS anime a Viz united production. However, just because I adore something does not mean it should be immune to criticism; all perspectives need be accounted for, least unexpected holes lead to unforseen problems.
But then all of sudden people start liking the same thing….and you're not the resistance anymore, you're just a sad person who's a liiiiitle too obsessed with a cartoon show to be healthy. And as the realization sets in that they system really doesn't give a damn what you do leads to a sudden outporing of hatred for the people who read the work.
Spouting the apocalypse, eh? To emulate your "with us or without us" rhetoric from earlier, a true fan should adore a manga/anime despite plot holes, inconsistencies, and errors. I cite Viz's errors because I want them to improve, such that they make a superior product. One doesn't want another Chicken Little to be a success, right? Look at the fantastic (neg.) reprocussions of that movie; Disney forced Pixar's hand, despite "Big D" on the verge of death as is. Poor quality generally results in a loss of profit as a limit of time approaches infinity; exceptional stories with strong beginnings are usually tough enough to endure this (Naruto, Love Hina), but OP's beginnings are shaky, and getting into the manga mid-way isn't a viable option. The mud must be waded through before reaching the clear waters.
The best example is Stephen King, possible the greatest literary writer of the current age. All the people who call them selves "literary writers" hate him because the simple fact is, try as hard as they might, literature cannot be taught in and English class. So they complain a little or blather about communism for a while and tell themselves that the reason nobody reads their stuff is that the things they write are too smart for them anyway, who'd want trash like that to read their work.
You've made a generalization I do not quite understand, but I'll try to reinterpret it, so give some feedback. Stephen King is (and I agree) a fantastic literary writer, but amateurs criticize him because their own books, which delve into matters of politics, power, and reform, do not sell well, despite publisher hailings and solid writing material.
I could address this by saying writing is cheap, but storytelling is not. Anyone can be a writer and bullshik about politics; everything's subjective, and most of the major ideas have been already introduced (and radically affected history) so political books are frequent, generic, and a rehash of what people already know. Since such writing requires very little skill, and can be supported with facts (because facts are really only useful for support), people inherently understand that those books are of low written quality, the writers have no real experience with the subject matter, and the arguments could be found much more cheaply on a message board or in a High School classroom. The US doesn't publically sponsor philosophers because everyone would be one.
Fiction writers have things a bit more difficult; things must be explained clearly and must make sense from a relative point of view (as in, a first person character might not understand why the sky is blue, but if the subject is brought up in a third person omniprescent god-like narrator, and the matter is brought up by that narrator, why better be dang explained). This debate is why people argue "how" things happen in stories like OP; we've suspended our disbelief because of Oda's enchanted pen, so now we try to maintain that suspension. Even if there's something that we cannot explain, we're still immersed, so we write that off. This is why people like Ivotas, omae, ooshi, myself, e1n, and various others can enjoy OP despite our own "know-better" perspectives (like e1n's physics background clashing with Nami's 'gravity defying breasts'). So to say, we're in the "zone". King can do that; journalism drop outs cannot.
And then stephen king comes along, and what he writes really is literature, (by the widely accepted definition of literature as "the truth even though it didn't happen") and everyone wants to read it, so the "literary writers" have no choice but to say King isn't really literature, lest they be forced to admit they've just been really educated depressed people for a long time.
Man, I'm tired. Just read the above; it applies to this paragraph as well.
So let's all take a step back, accept that we are not the saviors of mankind nor the holy guardians of the book of One Piece, and give our fellow men a little leeway as they try to balance accurate translation with what will keep their children fed.
Viz doesn't need OP. 4Kids does. How can we explain wishing Al Kahn and the OP voice actors dead (which many have done in the 4Kids Discussion Thread, much to my chagrin) when they, whom obviously get low salaries and have had minor roles prior to their casting (indicating they haven't found much work), need the work? Who are we to deprive them of their hopes, or dreams? People are losing faith in relegions, so they invest their faith in the material world; their jobs, their posessions, and their savings. They believe that Social Security will widstand the Baby Boomers, that the War in Iraq will resolve nicely, and that we can resolve our differences with "infidels". Most of us recognize this is wrong thinking, but should we deprive those people of such? We surely do not need such thoughts ourselves, or maybe we do; everything's relative to the individual. I support the dub of OP because I know the people in it are getting much-needed, constant work; I criticize the dub in hopes of making the presentation pleasureable on my side of this capitalist society. I recognize that Viz takes the OP manga for granted, especially since they're raking in massive profits that arn't stemmed by it.
chucks wrench
Then again, I could take the approach that the best are entitled to work. Viz should fire its translators and hire AP's Japanese speakers/readers instead. I demand a quality product, as is my right as a consumer.
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Mainline, I do NOT have the energy to quote all of that.
It's your right to decide what to buy, of course, but your statements showed the kind of superiority complex so many anime fans suffer.
If you're not really a sufferer of the syndrome, I apologise for what I said.
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1: These companies need to make money. It's necessary. They are not run specifically for the fans to enjoy. Frankly, I have no problem with them doing what they think they need to do to stay in business (within reason. 4kids is unnaceptable.)
Why would more accurate translating lose them money?
2: Viz is phenomenal because it exists at all. The swearing is creeping back in, they're just handling it with kid gloves because things are going nuts with the anime. Most of their changes are hardly worth mentioning, and the few that are aren't worth being loud about.
That really dosen't work anymore. Viz is no manga savior.
That my friend is Dark Horse. Look at thier manga products, excellent excellent excellent. So its no giant blessing we take for granted.3: Guess what? If something is in japanese colloquialisms, they have to put it into american colloquialisms to sell it in the states. I'm sure there are plenty of usopp-undie wearing Otakus in the states, but they're trying to reach it out to the world at large.
Agreed here, some things are lost in translation. Not Viz's fault.
So let's all take a step back, accept that we are not the saviors of mankind nor the holy guardians of the book of One Piece, and give our fellow men a little leeway as they try to balance accurate translation with what will keep their children fed.
I once again bring up Dark Horse.
They bring us Berserk, uncut, and perhaps TOO literally translated (Knight of Skeleton?XD ) Berserk outsells One Piece no question.
Simpled up dialouge, and dialouge edits, they be mere nothings as far as sales go. -
Mainline, I do NOT have the energy to quote all of that.
It's your right to decide what to buy, of course, but your statements showed the kind of superiority complex so many anime fans suffer.
If you're not really a sufferer of the syndrome, I apologise for what I said.
Then I win by default. If you don't want to "ruin the experience" by considering possibilities, we can't expect young children to do the same for the OP anime. It's selfish and a sign of bigotry. Watch this movie and let me gloat over my victory. -.-
Agreed here, some things are lost in translation. Not Viz's fault.
How does that work? Viz does the translations, right? Or is OP translated into Chinese, Russian, and Spanish before arriving in Viz's communication department? :glare:
I once again bring up Dark Horse.
They bring us Berserk, uncut, and perhaps TOO literally translated (Knight of Skeleton?XD ) Berserk outsells One Piece no question.
Simpled up dialouge, and dialouge edits, they be mere nothings as far as sales go.Dark Horse limits its potential profit because of its "grim" theme of selection, much in the same way 4Kids does by only appealing to children. I must say, though…"Knight of Skeleton"? Hardly sounds like a typical Dark Horse volume, and I must say I've only read pre-Eclipse as done by DH. o_O;
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How does that work? Viz does the translations, right? Or is OP translated into Chinese, Russian, and Spanish before arriving in Viz's communication department? :glare:
It´s not anyones fault because with two different languages you can´t avoid situations where you lose something. Sometimes you can translate things one to one but then you don´t get the message across. In other situations you can get the message´s across but say actually something completely different. No matter how good the translations is, only the original langue in which the author writes guarantees you that you don´t lose anything. It´s not the fault of translator. It isn´t anyone´s fault actually. That´s how it is with different languages.
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It's kind of silly to compare Viz's One Piece to Dark Horse's Berserk – One Piece is a kid's story that I lend out to my friend's eleven year old brother, and Berserk is what I borrow from my friends, all of whom are in college.
I think that most of us -and by "us" I mean Arlong Parkers, who are mostly in high school, college, or beyond - have lost sight of the fact that One Piece is a story mostly aimed at younger kids. Wasn't it Viz Hater who insisted that all anime and manga are for adults? How can anyone who disagrees with that idea say that One Piece should have complicated dialogue with swearing in it? It's contradictory and hypocritical. :/
And ocean got it right on the first page:
(I wonder how people will know the language is toned down when they don't know any Japanese…)
(And I also wonder if they know the fact official name of Going Merry is "Going Merry Go" in Japanese...)
I know that I sure don't know a lick of Japanese! How about almost everyone else? Anyone who complains abouit faithfullness to the original dialogue MUST be fluent, right? RIGHT GUYS??
(I'd like to think that I'm less of a jerk when stating my opinions than I used to be. Confirm/deny? Please let me know. I'm trying to be a nicer person, OK?)
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It´s not anyones fault because with two different languages you can´t avoid situations where you lose something. Sometimes you can translate things one to one but then you don´t get the message across. In other situations you can get the message´s across but say actually something completely different. No matter how good the translations is, only the original langue in which the author writes guarantees you that you don´t lose anything. It´s not the fault of translator. It isn´t anyone´s fault actually. That´s how it is with different languages.
That's bullcrack. I shot a bullet into the air, it came down and killed someone. So, it's not my fault? I pulled the dang trigger!
"Lost in Translation" arguments apply most directly to novelizations; movies and manga apply less because the pictures provide additional supplement. Because people can rephrase and rewrite, there's obviously leeway to avoiding such problems. With three god dang months to produce three or four OP chapters, there's no excuse for the translators to get paid for shoddy work when Null/Stephen/ooshi/ocean can provide better material. Even the generic stolen knock-off scanslations put some Viz translations to shame!
I used the term to give people the jist of where I was going with my argument, but you fools seem to take things literally. How about this term, then "Demographic Degregation". One Piece has sexual innuendo,violence,drinking, smoking, and swearing; yet, because there's nothing explicit, and deaths are almost non-existant, it gets dumbed down to a "Teen" rating. The original, in American terms, is for "Older Teens 16+", on par with Ranma 1/2. Why Viz deliberately did this is beyond me; obviously, Ranma 1/2 and Inu-Yasha are big sellers with children under sixteen, as well as many trashy Tokyopop titles.
How can you lot explain children wearing Southpark shirts in Elementary school? I personally wore Bart Simpson shirts when I was in kindergarden, at my own request. Boondocks is the second highest rated show on AS. In modern television, a show attracts a demographic; there's no need, and sometimes negative consequences, of having a demographic meet a show.
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That's bullcrack. I shot a bullet into the air, it came down and killed someone. So, it's not my fault? I pulled the dang trigger!
I would really be nice if you would think first before you speak actually. Don´t label things as bullcrack if you don´t seem to have the slightest idea what you are replying to actually. I grew up bilingual and I can assure you that it in you lose much in translations. But of course you know everything better and will tell me some whack thing that I´m I don´t speak the languages I grew up well or some crap like that. :rolleyes:
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May i ask what is wrong with tokyopop just wondering dont yell. >_>
Also this is stupid but does the voice of zoro in the dub have a website or anything. Maybe thought i could contact him ask him questions about vaing and one piece dub and stuff.
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It's kind of silly to compare Viz's One Piece to Dark Horse's Berserk – One Piece is a kid's story that I lend out to my friend's eleven year old brother, and Berserk is what I borrow from my friends, all of whom are in college.
Berserk is in its own category; adult manga. OP is in Shounen, which is considered an action drama for young men, as opposed to…snicker young animals. Young men can be anywhere from 7-25 years of age.
I agree, though; we shouldn't compare different genres. It's much more painful to compare OP to Ranma 1/2, or Inu-Yasha, which are almost shoujo shounen stories. Nudity, blood, guts, cursing…it's all there, and it's very popular. Don, don, don! Get a clue, Viz.
I think that most of us -and by "us" I mean Arlong Parkers, who are mostly in high school, college, or beyond - have lost sight of the fact that One Piece is a story mostly aimed at younger kids. Wasn't it Viz Hater who insisted that all anime and manga are for adults? How can anyone who disagrees with that idea say that One Piece should have complicated dialogue with swearing in it? It's contradictory and hypocritical. :/
Mozz put it best.
One Piece's age > Pokemon's age
To 4Kids, OP's age = Pokemon's age
Thus OP gets brought down a few pegs =/
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I know that I sure don't know a lick of Japanese! How about almost everyone else? Anyone who complains abouit faithfullness to the original dialogue MUST be fluent, right? RIGHT GUYS??
This is, of course, the grandest argument of all; we don't know Japanese, and have no idea of whether Viz or online translators are correct or not.
But then again, we are intelligent and can logically navigate our way around this inability. We plainly see digital or inking edits and recognize emotion in voices; if the Japanese have a broader range of emotional acting than American actors, it's fairly plain to identify what scenes have much more dramatic tension. Since Toei's OP is considered faithful to the manga, we can also say that Oda approves, so what Toei presents as dramatic is likely how things originally were in the Japanese manga.
Therefore, I can conclude that the language, much like the intonation and expression, is much stronger (in terms of content, or simpler, in terms of emotional extremes, like hatred). Just by watching a RAW of the Arlong Arc, I can tell Nami is in deep pain and flinging "curse words" at Arlong after he "broke their agreement". She didn't say "Curse you, Arlong".
Furthermore, the online translators seem to get the basic bulk of the material they rephrase in agreement with one another. As in, Stephen might have a different sentence from ooshi or Himizujin, but the basic points of the sentence (subject, clause, ect.) are still in agreement. One could argue that everyone here is working together in a massive conspiracy, or that scripts are stolen, but this stuff applies to Null as well. I've come to believe Null and our AP translators are not on the best of terms, as Null discussions seem few and infrequent; if Null stole scripts, we'd be frying him, so I can further assume the AP translators acknowledge that Null is doing his own translations; if he, untouched by this massive community, produces material that sounds like what we're used to reading in translation (not scanslation) form, what are the chances that all of them got the material wrong?
(I'd like to think that I'm less of a jerk when stating my opinions than I used to be. Confirm/deny? Please let me know. I'm trying to be a nicer person, OK?)
This is a forum. We're here to talk. Being tough or sounding "jerkish" is all part of the discussion. The only violent and inappropriate attacks are "ad hominems" against people directly, so if you avoid that, there should be little restrictions against speaking your mind. :/
I would really be nice if you would think first before you speak actually. Don´t label things as bullcrack if you don´t seem to have the slightest idea what you are replying to actually. I grew up bilingual and I can assure you that it in you lose much in translations. But of course you know everything better and will tell me some whack thing that I´m I don´t speak the languages I grew up well or some crap like that. :rolleyes:
I'm so sorry that I'm a racist white bigot who doesn't realize that other nationalities of people with diverse backgrounds exist on this planet. ~.~;
Seriously, though, I do apologize for that outburst, but it wasn't really meant to offend. Culturally, here, people tend to "stun" an argument with a terse assertion of either agreement or disagreement; as in, stuff like "No", "You're wrong", "I don't think so", or "Buzz!!". Again, I am sorry if I did offend you with that. =(
Do not assume, however, that one whom preaches against political correctness like myself has no foundation. I'm a German/Phillippino American, son of an immigrant and a counter culture sailor. I grew up in a house that spoke three languages (English, Visaiyan, Tagalog) or possibly four since Spanish is a relative of Visaiyan. Many of my "family" members/friends cannot speak English very well, so it's often necessary to soften language around them.
HOWEVER, even with poor English, these people still understand phrases like "I love you" or "I hate you". They understand curses. People look at me funny when I say "fudge" or "crack", because they're expecting me to say, well, real curses. I actually say those things in real life because I was publically humiliated for an innocent question ages ago by a "soccer mom" in front of my friends/family.
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Also, to clarify the analogy, the Japanese can allegedly include much more in their written works than Americans can. This means Americans have the trouble of condensing material to make it readible to the American mind, else we have Tokyopop-ish translations that consist of a great deal of text-heavy bubbles. My criticism was that with such material to work with, one should cite Viz as "infallible" because they are the ones doing the translations. If there's a loss of translation, it's Viz's fault; there's no mandate on how long talk should be, nor a scientific method to determining how much text someone need read before getting bored. I can breeze through a Ranma 1/2 volume in five minutes because the dialogue is so truncated, but I take hours and hours to read Love Hina. My attention span is eighteen minutes and thiry seven seconds (clocked Monday, 9 January 2006 during the 9:00-10:00 session of Chem 2B), so I must have been enchanged by Love Hina if I could spend that much time reading what the characters had to say. Superflous text isn't a bad thing; people need to just calm down, stop, and smell the roses already.
May i ask what is wrong with tokyopop just wondering dont yell. >_>
Also this is stupid but does the voice of zoro in the dub have a website or anything. Maybe thought i could contact him ask him questions about vaing and one piece dub and stuff.
TokyoPop doesn't translate sound effects like Viz does, the errors are frequent (such that there are even spelling errors), and the translation provided is sometimes tongue-in-cheek with various pop culture references (Love Hina made a reference to "Neverwinter Nights", an almost American-exclusive MMORPG-ish game developed by Bioware and released in 2002, around the same time that particular manga was being translated).
Ergo, TokyoPop can sometimes be even less faithful than Viz, but because they operate so cheaply, they're less constricted by money matters and are free to interpret what they want in a manner they think would allow for success. They're more free to experiment, and they have massive reserviors of "unwanted" manga to play with. This concept dates back all the way to Socrates, the poor philosopher than loved to prattle on about public problems.
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This post is deleted!
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@Fire Fist, I see.
Why would more accurate translating lose them money?
Because if you use the language in a wrong way, some mothers would sue the company.
@Malintex_Terek:"Lost in Translation" arguments apply most directly to novelizations; movies and manga apply less because the pictures provide additional supplement. Because people can rephrase and rewrite, there's obviously leeway to avoiding such problems. With three god dang months to produce three or four OP chapters, there's no excuse for the translators to get paid for shoddy work when Null/Stephen/ooshi/ocean can provide better material. Even the generic stolen knock-off scanslations put some Viz translations to shame!
I strongly disagree here. Things GET LOST in translation. For example, my most favorite line is one from Pell.
@Pell:我–-
アラバスタの守護神
ファルコン
王家の敵を
討ち滅ぼすものなりIt's so touching line but when it comes to English:
@stephen:I am…
A guardian spirit of Alabasta...
THE FALCON.
IT IS MY DUTY TO DESTROY
ENEMIES OF THE ROYAL FAMILY.I…
The Guardian Deity of Arabasta:
Falcon,
am to destroy
the enemies of the royal family.Both sounds… blah.
Malintex_Terek, please watch your mouth/finger when you speak/type. I recently got guidelines of Manga publishers on how long do the companies expect the full time translators to translate the chapters. 3 volumes per month. That's ... about 30 One Piece chapters per a month, a chapter per a month. Each company has its own strategy to run things. They intentionally release a volume every 3 months or so. Don't measure things with your own ruler.
Being tough or sounding "jerkish" is all part of the discussion.
@Forum:
- We want the atmosphere of the forums to be a fun and pleasant place. Things that have the potential to lead to flame wars will be snuffed out immediately. Therefore…
-- No racial, or prejudice slurs. Period.
-- No trolling, bashing, or flaming. Do not insultingly down people for their opinion, and do not insultingly down on characters, pairings, or series, since it could offend other members. It is perfectly acceptable to express your opinion, but do so in a tactful way.
This is the second time I quote you the forum rule. If you want to express your opinion, please do so without sounding jerk(ish). Consider yourself warned.
- We want the atmosphere of the forums to be a fun and pleasant place. Things that have the potential to lead to flame wars will be snuffed out immediately. Therefore…
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I hate that rule. :(
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I hate that rule. :(
then go hang out in some other forum that doesn't have that rule.
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Because if you use the language in a wrong way, some mothers would sue the company.
This is only likely if Viz produces something that doesn't match the rating it's given. Parents can complain and bastich all they want, but they can't do a thing if something rated "Teen 16+" gets nudity/swearing/ect. What I find utterly hillarious is how these "soccer mothers" as it were, though I doubt that description fits the demographic as a majority, is how children are sexually educated in the sixth grade, immunized against Hepatitis a year later, educated further in science, shag in their bedrooms, yet are culturally modeled to be shielded from all sorts of "adult" things they will overindulge in when they are of legal breeding age. My campus is a virtual flop-house for both men and women; disgusting.
I strongly disagree here. Things GET LOST in translation. For example, my most favorite line is one from Pell.
Most of us are in a western mindset. It's hard enough to envision terms like "nakama" without some sort of cultural influence to the word. This, however, is not what I cited as "lost". What is brought over from Viz's translation is further trimmed for American audiences. What Viz will do is take your translation, and produce this:
I am…
THE FALCON...
Guardian of Alabasta...
DEFENDER of the royal family.This is what I mean. As if enough material was not already missing, the line gets trimmed down further. These are the rephrasals that anger me significantly. Earlier today, I went down to the D Borders Books to look up some sections from the OP Volume 9 for rebuttle in this topic. I would have been cited for theft (as policy dictates, reading a book for more than three minutes consitutes theft here!) had I lingered, but I did find an interesting note for Nami.
Nami: I'll repay you…with kisses.
Genzo: Stop acting like your mother!We all know how that scene played out, eh? Such is the forced demographic reductionism. I'm trying to point out to people that although 4Kids' dumbing-down of OP is far more noticeable and influentiable, Viz is slowly but surely doing the same. Such is the influence of Americans; we're a shag-crazy society that is strongly adverse to innuendo. THAT is hypocracy.
Malintex_Terek, please watch your mouth/finger when you speak/type. I recently got guidelines of Manga publishers on how long do the companies expect the full time translators to translate the chapters. 3 volumes per month. That's … about 30 One Piece chapters per a month, a chapter per a [day]. Each company has its own strategy to run things. They intentionally release a volume every 3 months or so. Don't measure things with your own ruler.
Excuse me? What's your point? You did say "full time translators", did you not, and not "part time" or "unemployed"? You lot do this for free and sometimes produce a chapter within hours of its release, with no gain at all. You have said that material is "lost in translation", so reading the Japanese raws are far more pleasureable than the English. It's one of the kindest gestures to we, the ignorant fans, I have ever seen on a forum. In comparison, there are individuals who are getting paid with a "professional" level salary, from a respectable company that obviously has a wide pool of talent to draw from when recruiting translators.
If anything, what you just told me makes me think less of Viz's mistakes. They rush through the translations, yet intentionally hold back on production until the Shounen Jump magazine reaches a point at which the volume may be translated. What's the excuse, then, for having mistakes? We fans have read through the OP manga scans thousands of times, spotting errors wherever they rear their ugly heads. Does Viz consider people too stupid not to do the same?!
This is the second time I quote you the forum rule. If you want to express your opinion, please do so without sounding jerk(ish). Consider yourself warned.
I am not a jerk. Ivotas is ten years my senior; it should acceptable for me, an impudent runt at an age considered by the US military to be the most "wild and full of potential energy, ready to mold into a perfect soldier" to be offended by such harmless outburts, but I originally could not fathom why Ivotas would feel insulted. I attend a Pokemon forum that assumes all arguments have foundationary basis, mature discussion a minimum, and cursing mandatory. I follow the first two, but not the third; I find it hard to believe that AP, devoted to a more "mature" show than Pokemon, can have members who are less hardily resiliant to words. Seriously…they're quite cheap and easily rebuffed.
I recognise insults as inappropriate on a forum that has as many children browsing as adults, which is why I have taken precautionary measures (check my "profanity"). I do not appreciate being warned and singled out simple because I have pontificated longer and more frequently in the last few days, though primarily in this topic, than I have in the past. Frequently, argument threads have lead to violence considered "worse" than that sole comment, though those people have not been "warned". Why am I singled out? Do you chop the heads off of those whom are more outspoken, or simply assume that because I say a lot of things, everything I say is full of hatred, malice or vice?
But I digress. I apologise for any offenses, and I bid you all a good day. Now I need to rest.
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I can see that it got a little out of hand but ok…...btw does people realize how good the manga is? if not we should spread the One Piece love to all people!!!!!!
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@e1n:
then go hang out in some other forum that doesn't have that rule.
I'm here to stay, by the way, isn't telling someone to leave a pretty hostile thing to do? If you're going to ban me, put your case forward and do it, otherwise follow your own rules, god knows I've been trying to ever since you guys made the point that I'd better get my act together.
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FWIW, I thought "I'll pay you with kisses" is very cute coming out of little Nami. The original line really sorta sounds trampy. Perhaps funny coming out of an 8-year-old girl, but perhaps coming from today's world, not so much… I can so see a Bratz (what's the singular of that?) doing that.
I like what Viz does, although I find their price still a bit high. Still, they have to realise they're in a competitive market, against the scanlators of the world. If you're not price leader, and you're not speed leader, you have to be quality leader.
Now some of Viz's stuff is better than scanlation (good coherency, good spacing in the balloons), but then they'll mess up something.
Chapter 70 is a great example of how neither has the upper hand.
Page 13, Arlong declares "Money can buy anything in this world" (MSN), or "money makes the world go round" (Viz). The former seems a much deeper choice of terminology, given that not only is he buying the Marine's compliance now, but there's the belief that Nami's compliance has been bought with money (not the promise of her home)
Page 15, the "Nezumi means Mouse" explanation is handled terribly clunkily by Viz... they make it sound like a pun Hatchi has tried to pass off on his own.
Of course, then The MSN people squander it by calling Hatchi and Arlong mermaids... mermen I can take, but let's not be giving them sex changes.
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FWIW, I thought "I'll pay you with kisses" is very cute coming out of little Nami. The original line really sorta sounds trampy. Perhaps funny coming out of an 8-year-old girl, but perhaps coming from today's world, not so much… I can so see a Bratz (what's the singular of that?) doing that.
Focus, Terek. Short.
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The original had more comic impact because innuendo was implied; it's the kind of thing a child would do (mimic a parent). Also, Nami's line implied Belle-Mere said the same thing, which makes the Belle-Mere line out of context. I need check first, though.
I like what Viz does, although I find their price still a bit high. Still, they have to realise they're in a competitive market, against the scanlators of the world. If you're not price leader, and you're not speed leader, you have to be quality leader.
Solid advice, but I question how you note the manga as being "expensive". Disregarding that outlier of an Anime convention, OP manga is generally sold very cheaply around here, ranging from five or six to seven dollars apiece. That's massively cheaper than what I normally read; Dark Horse sells stuff in the thirteen dollar and above range, typical non-Shounen Viz titles, disregarding old stuff like Dragonball, sell for ten dollars, and the smaller companies are forced to have higher prices with their big named brands (Del Ray's Negima!).
Now some of Viz's stuff is better than scanlation (good coherency, good spacing in the balloons), but then they'll mess up something.
What you deem "coherent" I see as a double-edged sword. Viz's translations drain OP magic. So do our scanslations/translations, too, but we've got the contextual inferences and background, not to mention people who can explain the inside-jokes. I can't comment on spacing, except that those speech balloons look awfully empty in comparison to what Tokyopop spews out.
Chapter 70 is a great example of how neither has the upper hand.
Page 13, Arlong declares "Money can buy anything in this world" (MSN), or "money makes the world go round" (Viz). The former seems a much deeper choice of terminology, given that not only is he buying the Marine's compliance now, but there's the belief that Nami's compliance has been bought with money (not the promise of her home)
Page 15, the "Nezumi means Mouse" explanation is handled terribly clunkily by Viz… they make it sound like a pun Hatchi has tried to pass off on his own.
Of course, then The MSN people squander it by calling Hatchi and Arlong mermaids... mermen I can take, but let's not be giving them sex changes.
Which MSN site are you refferring to? The continuation of the original (v.1) or the (v.3) website? Before NULL went into hibernation, people we uploading quality scans of earlier, poorer scanslations, but this practice appears to have stopped once Whisky Peak came along.
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I'm here to stay, by the way, isn't telling someone to leave a pretty hostile thing to do? If you're going to ban me, put your case forward and do it, otherwise follow your own rules, god knows I've been trying to ever since you guys made the point that I'd better get my act together.
it was another warning for you, not a hostile way of telling you to leave. we mods have a right to warn people. since you responded in such a way that is not considered tactful, i have a right to respond to you in a similar way.
if you are really trying to, that's good. but little quirky comments like that made your efforts seem fruitless. remember the general rule of thumb: think before you post.
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Maybe your warning's should have more tact then, as well, because that sure as hell looked like it said, "if you don't like it here go away" rather than "I'm warning you for questionable behavior."
Whatever, I didn't realize that my joke violated the guidelines in any way, my bad.
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I would really be nice if you would think first before you speak actually. Don´t label things as bullcrack if you don´t seem to have the slightest idea what you are replying to actually. I grew up bilingual and I can assure you that it in you lose much in translations. But of course you know everything better and will tell me some whack thing that I´m I don´t speak the languages I grew up well or some crap like that. :rolleyes:
Thank you Ivotas, this discussion needed that.
Things have come to a pretty pass when someone on a forum has to beg other posters "not to yell" when they ask a question >=(