Shuhan's playhouse theater presents: Chester's Revenge

Jabberwok

@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:

I believe I addressed this already. Post #165.

Haven't heard from you in a while, and your last stance from a while ago was that both Shinobu and I struck you as town. Has anything that's been said since then influenced your thinking? You've said no one has really stood out to you but you're also not asking very many questions.

@Wooden_Giraffe:

.

I can understand wanting to focus on interrogating 1-2 people, just so long as you don't assume the innocence of everyone else. I think your last stance was that you were more suspicious of me than Shinobu, and I'm curious if you're still sticking to that. Do you have any questions for me, Shinobu, or anyone else?

With three-ish hours to go, any successful lynch will need to require pressure/votes from one or both of you.

Wooden_Giraffe

Vote Lynch: Jabberwok

I'm with Foolio in preferring Jabs as a target. Shinobu strikes me more as misunderstanding a few things, that being said it is enough that I'm willing to switch in order to achieve a lynch. I'll be able to come back on to do so if needed all the way up until the lynch.

Shuhan

There is 45 min left
With 6 players left, it takes 4 to lynch

Jabberwok(3): Foolio, Wooden-Giraffe, SpaceCowboy

Shinobu Mahara(1): Jabberwok

Not voting(2): SuDoKu, Shinobu Mahara

SpaceCowboy

Ok, I guess I dont have much of a choice. I doubt Shinobu will hammer herself and I'm not sure about SUDK's appearence.

Vote Lynch: Unvote Shinobu Mahara
Vote Lynch: Jabberwok Jabber is one away from a lynch. I'm still on board to change to lynch and go for Shinobu if both Foolio and Woody change their votes or whatever.

Jabberwok

Well, this doesn't look great. Three things:

The town has no chance of winning of two members remain minimally active and don't ask questions or give more full-bodied opinions. It's also extremely difficult to refute such a accusation when there's little explanation of the reasoning behind it. Wooden and SUDK need to participate more going forward if the Town hopes to succeed.
I prioritized informing the Town over giving information to the mafia, knowing that as a vanilla I was rather expendable as a target. I thought it was more important for people to know that some players lacked powers and that the shop will likely change some of that.
Here's my message from Shuhan, in case there's another vanilla out there. I've changed only two words to avoid false vanilla claims: "You are a Townie. You have no special abilities and win when all threats to the town have been eliminated."

SpaceCowboy

No info on your item?

I'm still willing to change the vote.

Jabberwok

@SpaceCowboy:

No info on your item?

I'm still willing to change the vote.

I've told you, it specifically does nothing. There was nothing in it but the role note.

Wooden_Giraffe

No ones here to hammer Jabs either. Unless Foolio shows up to switch to Shinobu it looks like a no Lynch :-/

Shuhan

5 minutes to go .

SpaceCowboy

Kill me

16 chars

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Jabber, buddy. Hammer yourself or something.

Have pity on us poor town.

Jabberwok

The most embarrassing way to survive. Hooray?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

I aint no Fool! Also not scum

SpaceCowboy

The bear sniffed your meat and decided it wasn't worth.

But the bear actually has a bad nose and is blind as well.

It also wasn't a bear.

You got spared by a hedgehog.

Shuhan

An audible thumping noise could be heard behind them. Chester, with a deadpan look on his face, is banging his head against the wall…

"Idiots...even gave them extra time."

It is now night, you have 24 hours to do ANYTHING!!!!!!

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Shuhan

Okay, here's the skinny, i woke up late and have to go to work. So for now, Im going to add 12 hours to the night, so day will start at 5:00 am est. Sorry for the wait.

Shuhan

SpaceCowboy is dead. Next to his body was a small knife.

This knife had a tag that read, "The owner of this murder device was the assassin. They were able to target another player at night to kill."

With that, the day starts. (At 9:00 AM est, sorry)

With 5 players left, it takes 3 to lynch

Not voting(5): Foolio, Wooden-Giraffe, Jabberwok, SuDoKu, Shinobu Mahara

Wooden_Giraffe

Wooot!
I don’t know who did what but good job.

Now where’s our item shop?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Both blocking a kill and killing a scum seems pretty unlikely for a town with limited numbers and an alleged Bonilla townie. Especially since Space didn’t have any heat on him previously. This leads me to believe that a third party is indeed at work and has likely killed the only mafia in the game.
The only way this effects our scum hunt is that we probably won’t be able to rely on searching for anyone Space collaborated with.

Jabberwok

Wow, talk about a lucky break! I honestly expected Space to die, but that's because he was my strongest Town read. Personally, that lines up with Wooden's interpretation that there are two enemy parties.

One thing though. Even if there are two killers, we've only had one kill each night. It seems incredibly unlikely that someone blocked a kill successfully both nights, especially since Faith already had a 'Doctor' role (that she almost certainly didn't use). So what gives? I could see the remaining killer not doing anything the first night to remain incognito, but tonight both they and Space definitely would have attempted night kills.

Wooden_Giraffe

Do you think it’s possible that Space elected to not target anyone? He wasn’t exactly high on most people’s suspects list. Perhaps he feared running the risk of being tracked or killing someone who was being watched.

Jabberwok

It's possible but seems rather unlikely. Space presumably would have thought he was the only killer. With additional powers theoretically coming today, he probably would have wanted to eliminate as many people as possible before then. I guess maybe he felt secure enough and hoped that an influx of powers would be short-term?

Do you think someone with a roleblocking power who might have prevented Space's kill should claim? I could see arguments for both sides there.

Shinobu Mahara

Finally the day started up again.. I no longer have to watch as the hours roll by with no new posts. Hallelujah.
First 2 nights the most strong posters go, this is not a pattern i like at all.
Keen to see what this item shop has in store, heh. ( Dad jokes are best jokes >:^) )
I think its incredibly likely spacey didnt target anybody, and especially not himself.
My guess personally is that Spacey was perhaps third party and mafia are out there somewhere.

In another scenario though, not sure if it works this way or not but, what if Spacey targets a person in the night, that person would have been potentially killed, mafia try to kill spacey, therefore stopping spacey's target to be eliminated?
Or would it have 100% killed both Spacey and his target?

Wooden_Giraffe

I would assume that all killing actions would happen at once unless otherwise stated. Shuhan, is that a question you can answer for us?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

So I think we can all agree that we should be lynching today. There should only be one scum left so we can afford a mislynch at this juncture.

Jabberwok

Yes, we definitely need to lynch today. There's almost certainly only one scum left, which means today is the only day we can afford a mislynch. We need to take advantage of that.

This is a bit of an assumption, but since Space's role read as basically a vanilla killer role and none of the remaining items are obviously dangerous, it's possible that the remaining scum has some additional ability in top of their normal killing powers.

Foolio

Wow, that's a pretty awesome turn of events, but also a little puzzling. I see several possible scenarios but most of them involve some significant coincidence.

The mafia's kill was blocked/prevented at the same time as a vig killed SpaceCowboy.
- Town-aligned vig: there are probably 2 mafia working together
- 3rd-party vig: probably 1 mafia and one unknown 3rd party
There are two factions capable of night kills but by coincidence only one of them decided to kill at a time, and today one of them ended up killing the other
SpaceCowboy tried to kill someone who had some kind of ability to kill their killer instead

The last one there is the "simplest" in that it doesn't involve multiple things lining up, but it also feels a little too perfect. Especially since we're at a point where if that's the case, that person could easily come forward and at least partial claim, but nobody has. I guess if there is a second mafia faction / 3rd party, there could be a chance they had to choose between using an item and performing a night kill; it really depends on how the roles were set up. Space's item clearly also served as his killing method so I don't know about him, but it could be true for the remaining anti-town player(s) (singular, hopefully). Anyway all that was to say it could explain there being less kills per night if at some point a killing player chose their item over their kill.

Another thing to note is that SpaceCowboy said he was leaning toward there being a single mafia. This could be evidence that he was working alone and thought he was the only one, with him being the night killer on D1. In the same vein, Jabberwok was the first to spring the idea of a 3rd faction at the start of the game…

Jabberwok

@Foolio:

Another thing to note is that SpaceCowboy said he was leaning toward there being a single mafia. This could be evidence that he was working alone and thought he was the only one, with him being the night killer on D1. In the same vein, Jabberwok was the first to spring the idea of a 3rd faction at the start of the game…

Eyeroll sorry for making guesses that are looking more accurate in retrospect.

There was only one kill on Night 1, which suggests that one of the (presumably) two killers didn't attempt a kill that night. If Space was working alone and unsure of a third party, he'd have very little reason not to attempt a kill Night 1. Which means the second killer probably didn't attempt anything Night 1, hoping to remain incognito.

That would hardly line up with my theory of 5/1/1, which was pretty much the first post of substance once the game had started. Raising the possibility first thing is the exact opposite of lying low. For that reason, I'm curious to hear SUDK's read on last night's events; they were the only person to never even acknowledge the possibility of 5/1/1.

Also, looking back over things, Faith had mentioned the previous game had a protective shield that protected the holder from night kill(s?). A shield is also listed as one of the ones in this game- it's possible that's what foiled one or more attempted night kills last night or Night 1.

Foolio

@Jabberwok:

Eyeroll sorry for making guesses that are looking more accurate in retrospect.

There was only one kill on Night 1, which suggests that one of the (presumably) two killers didn't attempt a kill that night. If Space was working alone and unsure of a third party, he'd have very little reason not to attempt a kill Night 1. Which means the second killer probably didn't attempt anything Night 1, hoping to remain incognito.

That would hardly line up with my theory of 5/1/1, which was pretty much the first post of substance once the game had started. Raising the possibility first thing is the exact opposite of lying low. For that reason, I'm curious to hear SUDK's read on last night's events; they were the only person to never even acknowledge the possibility of 5/1/1.

Also, looking back over things, Faith had mentioned the previous game had a protective shield that protected the holder from night kill(s?). A shield is also listed as one of the ones in this game- it's possible that's what foiled one or more attempted night kills last night or Night 1.

The accuracy of a guess is not really important compared to analyzing when and how it was said. In fact "but it looks like I was right!" is like the most suspicious possible defense lol.

As for lack of multiple kills, there are a few items that could have aided the situation, the shield being an obvious assumption. There are others that I have no logical inference about, but again that comes down to the issue of whether or not we all want to claim. I feel like it's a bad idea; with one scum down, we finally have a bit of momentum and giving whoever's left a clearer idea of the setup and who to possibly get rid of just doesn't make sense to me right now.

We can wait for Shuhan to answer Woody's question, but we also need more active discussion about how to proceed.

@Wooden, do you still suspect Jabberwok? What do you think of the fact that SpaceCowboy hopped on his wagon? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to hear yours first.

@SUDK, according to what you said at the beginning of the game you should be able to be more active now, right? Please give your take on the situation. You were one of two people not to put a lynch vote down on D2, despite thinking there was a lone mafia and agreeing it was a good idea to pursue a lynch. Was another no-lynch preferred to you over picking between targets you didn't particularly suspect?

@Shinobu, you also didn't place a vote. At least in your case it was consistent with your overall desire not to lynch (though I kinda lost track of where exactly you stood after all those posts). And honestly if I'd had the time to monitor the end of day I'd have switched my vote and you'd have probably been lynched. Anyway at the time I was your only stated suspect. Do you have a real case to build against me besides the fact that I questioned you aggressively?

@Jabberwok, what do you make of the fact that there's no item shop, despite that being a main theory regarding your vanilla status?

Jabberwok

@Foolio:

The accuracy of a guess is not really important compared to analyzing when and how it was said. In fact "but it looks like I was right!" is like the most suspicious possible defense lol.

As for lack of multiple kills, there are a few items that could have aided the situation, the shield being an obvious assumption. There are others that I have no logical inference about, but again that comes down to the issue of whether or not we all want to claim. I feel like it's a bad idea; with one scum down, we finally have a bit of momentum and giving whoever's left a clearer idea of the setup and who to possibly get rid of just doesn't make sense to me right now.

@Jabberwok, what do you make of the fact that there's no item shop, despite that being a main theory regarding your vanilla status?

I'm not saying "looks like I was right!1!!", I'm saying that, as you point out, the accuracy of my early guess shouldn't really be evidence for or against me. Saying it so early though seems to contradict the other killer's presumed low-profile behavior unless 1) one of the two scum hit the shield or some other protected player the first night or 2) the scum are allied and Space was killed by a player ability. That's why I think it shouldn't be a point against me.

I'm not sure what to make of the absence of an item shop. Could be Chester's been lying to us just to string us along. Maybe he's just delayed for other reasons, though I feel like he would have said something about it today then. As is, I think it's best to proceed without the assumption that we'll get additional items.

I agree that a mass role reveal is probably a bad idea unless there's significant information to be shared, but do you think a player who believes they're responsible for Space's death should claim? It might help us make better sense of events.

Foolio

@Jabberwok:

I agree that a mass role reveal is probably a bad idea unless there's significant information to be shared, but do you think a player who believes they're responsible for Space's death should claim? It might help us make better sense of events.

Depends. If it was a one-time killing ability then it might make sense, just to clear up some confusion (at the expense of the scum having one less person to guess about). But I wouldn't expect a non-town aligned player to own up to the kill as that's extremely risky. A town-aligned kill would mean there's probably a single mafia of 2 people, so if it was some kind of self-defense kill instead of a vig then the remaining mafia player likely already knows who they are, making it sensible to come forward. If it was a multi-use item though then of course you don't want to claim. But these are highly speculative scenarios…

Wooden_Giraffe

@Foolio:

@Wooden, do you still suspect Jabberwok? What do you think of the fact that SpaceCowboy hopped on his wagon? I have my own thoughts but I'd like to hear yours first.
Yes I do. I'll go into detail farther down.
Space switching his vote to him tells me that they most certainly were not working together. Knowing what Space is now makes it very clear that he was following a common mafia strategy of being against the biggest suspect of the day(that he knows isn't mafia), but willing to target if necessary. That way he can get the lynch in and still say "I told you so". Of course this doesn't mean that Jabs is innocent.
As you mentioned the item shop was critical to Jabs' reasoning for claiming and his defense. While the setup that seems likely now does lend itself to vanillas being more likely, it absolutely crushes Jabs' argument, period. While Chester posting here hinting of a shop is one thing, the fact Jabs claims to have gotten direct communication from Shuhan makes it seem as if the item shop is certain, and yet, no shop. So until a shop shows up Jabs' story is looking pretty bogus to me.

Jabberwok

@Wooden_Giraffe:

As you mentioned the item shop was critical to Jabs' reasoning for claiming and his defense. While the setup that seems likely now does lend itself to vanillas being more likely, it absolutely crushes Jabs' argument, period. While Chester posting here hinting of a shop is one thing, the fact Jabs claims to have gotten direct communication from Shuhan makes it seem as if the item shop is certain, and yet, no shop. So until a shop shows up Jabs' story is looking pretty bogus to me.

To clarify this original statement, the 'direct communication' I received from Shuhan was about as follows:

Shuhan: You are a vanilla Townie. You have no powers. Be disappointed.

Me: Aw man, I always lack useful powers.

Shuhan: Might not always be that way ;)

And I didn't think much of it until the possibility of the item shop was floated in Day 2, at which point I thought it might be an additional clue that we might get one. That is all.

SomebodyUDon'tKnow

I'm active now! I came back N2, but since it was extended I had to wait. I completely missed the last day of D2.
I'm reading from where I left off now, and will post my thoughts soon.

Shinobu Mahara

@Foolio:

@Shinobu, you also didn't place a vote. At least in your case it was consistent with your overall desire not to lynch (though I kinda lost track of where exactly you stood after all those posts). And honestly if I'd had the time to monitor the end of day I'd have switched my vote and you'd have probably been lynched. Anyway at the time I was your only stated suspect. Do you have a real case to build against me besides the fact that I questioned you aggressively?

Yeah, really wasn't feeling the hammer, it would have gone against what i said earlier. Cant say im surprised that you would have voted in me in the end anyway had you had the chance.
I've been unable to find any reason other than the fact that you were overwhelming me with questions. So i'm not exactly sure how to feel about that. Maybe when readying over more thoroughly i will find something more substantial.
Severely disappointed that the item shop didnt make its appearance but from what shuhan said in jabbers text i'd be really hoping it does even if its later on.
But at the same time, with more items, more chaos so, equally as good as it would bad? Hard to judge.

SomebodyUDon'tKnow

Okay, read up!

@Foolio:

@SUDK, …You were one of two people not to put a lynch vote down on D2, despite thinking there was a lone mafia and agreeing it was a good idea to pursue a lynch. Was another no-lynch preferred to you over picking between targets you didn't particularly suspect?

@Foolio:

I do see now that you said both Jabberwok and Shinobu seemed "fairly town" to you. But a lot has happened since then; do you still feel the same? If you support a lynch despite having no real suspects, would you be willing to jump on one of the wagons despite not suspecting anyone?

Of course I wouldn't vote for someone I think it town, just to push it through. I understand that I should trust my fellow towns, but if I can't see what you see in them, I'm not going to go along with it. Even if I had showed up in time yesterday, I wouldn't have voted for either candidate.

@Wooden_Giraffe:

Space switching his vote to him tells me that they most certainly were not working together. Knowing what Space is now makes it very clear that he was following a common mafia strategy of being against the biggest suspect of the day(that he knows isn't mafia), but willing to target if necessary. That way he can get the lynch in and still say "I told you so". Of course this doesn't mean that Jabs is innocent.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. Not saying you're wrong or anything, just don't understand what you're saying.

@Foolio:

@SUDK and Jabberwok If you believe there's only 1 mafia then you shouldn't have qualms about a lynch today, but I haven't seen much from you two by way of pursuing that.

Jabberwok, last time you weighed in you said you'd lost confidence in your suspicion of Shinobu. Thoughts now?

SUDK, I honestly have almost no idea where you stand on anything or anyone. At the very minimum, can you weigh in on the two active wagons?

This post ticks me off a little, as it all but outright shows that you just ignored posts from the both of us. Both of us had weighed in on these matters previously. You might have a legitimate reason, but the comment just kind of hit me the wrong way.

@Jabberwok:

That would hardly line up with my theory of 5/1/1, which was pretty much the first post of substance once the game had started. Raising the possibility first thing is the exact opposite of lying low. For that reason, I'm curious to hear SUDK's read on last night's events; they were the only person to never even acknowledge the possibility of 5/1/1.

@Foolio:

@SUDK, according to what you said at the beginning of the game you should be able to be more active now, right? Please give your take on the situation.

Last night made me read through the game in a new light, which has given me a suspect.

My biggest suspect is Jabberwok. In the event Jabberwok is innocent, then Foolio becomes my big suspect. I trust Foolio until then, however.

@SpaceCowboy:

**Vote Lynch: Shinobu Mahara

I don't have tons of time right now, and I'll complete this later with some quotes, but I want people that glance at this right now to have my opinion.

I'm not a fan of what Shinobu's doing right now, even more than Jabber's.

If I considered Jabber's claim to be reckless,than Shinobu's even worse.
She got in the way of an interrogation (Foolio's to Jabber's) and took Jabber's side. While I am generally fine with someone taking the side of other person that he/she considers to be a townie, I don't like when they do it when someone is getting pressured to speak. It simply creates argumments for the person that is being questioned to use, even if they didn't though about them initially.
In this case, it gave Jabber's some leeway since he knows he has someone on his side.

This isn't the biggest problem though. I'm not going to vote for someone just because his playstyle is different from mine.

Jabber's claim was reckless and I believe we can all agree with that.
Someone that takes his side is bound to be one of 2:

Either another person that can relate to Jabber, in this case, a vanilla townie or,

A mafia, since it's pretty common for a mafia to take the side of someone he/she knows for sure is town. If that person gets lynched, it's easy for the mafia to say that he was on his side and refused to lynch him.

So Jabber getting lynched and flipping town:

Wouldn't tell us if Shinobu is a town;

Wouldn't tell us if Shinobu is a mafia.

While Shinobu getting lynhced and flipping town:

Would confirm Jabber's position.
While she flipping mafia:

Would still leave us room to work and try to realize Jabber's alligment.**

This, and the following defense of this, really make me think that Space was trying to exhonorate Jabberwok. The push for Shinobu's lynch (which Jabberwok later agreed with, but we'll get to that) would not only get rid of a town (at the potential cost of Space's life), but would ensure that a Mafia would get out scot-free. Foolio got in the way there, but at least some people would still follow this logic. Jabberwok would've been in a much better position here.

In fact, Jabberwok started pursuing Shinobu, too, being the second vote on him. He started outwardly agreeing with everything Foolio was saying about Shinobu, and even Foolio mentioned that he (Jabberwok) stopped commenting on his pursuit. It was like both of them started going after Shinobu, going after the most likely bandwagon.
Jabberwok was even called out for turning on Shinobu, after mentioning that he was "less confident" in pursuing him after he defended him.

The reason I suspect Foolio if Jabberwok is innocent is that Foolio's pursuit of Jabberwok almost completely stopped when Space jumped in, almost like they were tag-teaming him. This is a really weak argument, though, so that's why I trust Foolio for now.

Actually writing this out it sounds like a tinfoil-hat theory, but still.

@Everyone/Shuhan: Can the Mafia kill a Mafia at night?

I believe that there is no third party at this time, but that may change in regards to the answer to that question.

Jabberwok

@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:

@Everyone/Shuhan: Can the Mafia kill a Mafia at night?

I believe that there is no third party at this time, but that may change in regards to the answer to that question.

Mafia are on the same team and benefit from ending the game earlier with larger numbers. Plus, any Mafia kill needs a majority vote to be confirmed. Unless there was some bizarre betrayal mechanic built-in, there's no way one Mafia could night kill another allied Mafia.

Foolio

@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:

This post ticks me off a little, as it all but outright shows that you just ignored posts from the both of us. Both of us had weighed in on these matters previously. You might have a legitimate reason, but the comment just kind of hit me the wrong way.

I simply missed the single sentence explaining your stance as part of your reply to SpaceCowboy; mistakes happen. Other than that I wasn't ignoring posts, just trying to stir up some activity from players who were possibly in favor of a lynch.

@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:

The reason I suspect Foolio if Jabberwok is innocent is that Foolio's pursuit of Jabberwok almost completely stopped when Space jumped in, almost like they were tag-teaming him. This is a really weak argument, though, so that's why I trust Foolio for now.

I mean if Jabberwok flips town I expect some flak given how hard I've been pushing him, but for my part I stopped "pursuing" Jabberwok when there wasn't much left to say, plus at a certain point he just shrugged it off as what I believe he called "differences in approach."

Honestly my case against him seemed to have gained absolutely zero traction D2 so I was starting to wonder if I was just making a big deal out of nothing. The only other votes he ever got were in the last few hours when I was gone. That's partly why I asked Woody for his take, because I was starting to doubt my reasoning. Today's activity hasn't lessened my personal suspicions, though. My initial take on SpaceCowboy changing his vote was that maybe they actually were scum buddies, and he latched onto the one of my two listed suspects that he knew was actually town. But after that failed he switched his vote and basically bussed because not doing so would make him look really scummy after supporting a lynch and everything he said. He might have even felt it was relatively safe since Shinobu was against lynching and SUDK was against both wagons.

The reason this was my instinctive explanation is that, as SUDK pointed out, SpaceCowboy really did make an unusually strong effort to indirectly defend Jabberwok with vanilla townie theories and his all-or-nothing logic about flips and how Shinobu's mattered more – something that made little sense to me. But honestly Woody's take also makes general sense, if they weren't working together. I'm not really sure why he'd pick Shinobu over Jabberwok initially; maybe he didn't want to look like he was just bandwagoning? Maybe he thought it was an easier target? I have to admit Shinobu is still looking pretty scummy. Shinobu, if nothing else I expect you to actually pursue a lynch, on me or otherwise. I mean come on it's Day 3.

Anyway, the day is more than half over now and I sure as hell don't want another long day with no lynch. Nobody has come forward with any smoking guns or whatnot so I don't see a reason to hold off my vote.

Vote Lynch: Jabberwok

Foolio

@Jabberwok:

Mafia are on the same team and benefit from ending the game earlier with larger numbers. Plus, any Mafia kill needs a majority vote to be confirmed. Unless there was some bizarre betrayal mechanic built-in, there's no way one Mafia could night kill another allied Mafia.

I forgot to address this. Why are you answering for Shuhan? It's just a question about what's technically possible. I don't know what potential theory SUDK might have but I already gave one possible scenario a while back in which there are two allied mafia but they are unaware of each other's identity (in such a case only one would have the ability to kill at a time).

Jabberwok

Oh boy, this again.

Look, circumstantial hypotheses about Mafia affiliation are fairly fruitless when there's a ton of ways a smart player like Space could have played this. It's pretty common for scum to avoid public association too much, for instance, and to eagerly bus each other as a form of proof. It's also a strategy to defend town players to ingratiate themselves and earn credibility. Space's vote for Shinobu when it would have been easier to vote for me was actually one of the main reasons I thought he was Town.

Foolio's right about one thing: Shinobu, you need to push more. It's Day 3, we don't have much evidence, and the only claim is my vanilla. Manicured neutrality isn't going to win the game. Push back. Interrogate someone.

SuDK, I can't help but notice that you pretty much ignored (again) my question about a 5/1/1 setup. You seem very eager to go straight to 5/2 and are only looking for cooperation between Space and someone else. It seems a lot like you're avoiding the question of a third party, which looks pretty scummy to me.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Foolio:

I forgot to address this. Why are you answering for Shuhan? It's just a question about what's technically possible. I don't know what potential theory SUDK might have but I already gave one possible scenario a while back in which there are two allied mafia but they are unaware of each other's identity (in such a case only one would have the ability to kill at a time).

Wait what? I'd never heard of that set up but it could admittedly explain a lot.

SuDK had foremost addressed the question to @Everyone and I was answering to the best of my knowledge.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Still no activity, huh. That bodes well.

Foolio, what are your reads on SUDK and Wooden? Are they safely Town in your mind or do Shinobu and I just take priority?

Wooden, if I'm eliminated today, who will you focus on next? I haven't heard much about your opinions on other players.

Foolio

@Jabberwok:

SuDK had foremost addressed the question to @Everyone and I was answering to the best of my knowledge.

That's true, but I assume he was wondering if anyone had seen it happen or knew if it was typically explicitly against the rules. I don't get why you'd answer definitely that there's no way it'd be allowed while simultaneously speculating.

@Jabberwok:

Foolio, what are your reads on SUDK and Wooden? Are they safely Town in your mind or do Shinobu and I just take priority?

Nobody is safely town in my mind, except myself. My focus goes toward whomever seems the scummiest to me. Wooden is expertly skirting that line of being just active and productive enough to be a helpful player, but not actually stirring the pot any more than necessary. That's always behavior to be careful of, especially on re-reads. SUDK has been the least active and hardest for me to read. He admitted he would have refused to vote for either wagon yesterday, so there's that.

Shinobu Mahara

@Jabberwok:

Oh boy, this again.

Look, circumstantial hypotheses about Mafia affiliation are fairly fruitless when there's a ton of ways a smart player like Space could have played this. It's pretty common for scum to avoid public association too much, for instance, and to eagerly bus each other as a form of proof. It's also a strategy to defend town players to ingratiate themselves and earn credibility. Space's vote for Shinobu when it would have been easier to vote for me was actually one of the main reasons I thought he was Town.

Foolio's right about one thing: Shinobu, you need to push more. It's Day 3, we don't have much evidence, and the only claim is my vanilla. Manicured neutrality isn't going to win the game. Push back. Interrogate someone.

Forgive me jabberwok, most of yesterday i was helping someone move out of my place, and today i am moving all of my stuff to my backyard, i will gladly try to think of questions, i just happen to be incredibly busy/exhausted in the last 2 days. How long is it before day end so i can make sure i post something worthwhile before the end of day that some people may be able to ask me more if necessary?

Foolio

We have just under 9 hours now. Come on, guys…

Jabberwok

The last 6 of which I will be asleep, as I imagine so other people will be too. Discussion is kind of imperative.

SomebodyUDon'tKnow

I realise I never threw down my vote.
Vote lynch: Jabberwok

@Jabberwok:

**SuDK, I can't help but notice that you pretty much ignored (again) my question about a 5/1/1 setup. You seem very eager to go straight to 5/2 and are only looking for cooperation between Space and someone else. It seems a lot like you're avoiding the question of a third party, which looks pretty scummy to me.**I outright said that I don't think there's a third party. I didn't ignore it at all. In fact you answered the question immediately preceding my answer. And while I acknowledge the answer you gave to my 'Mafia killing Mafia' question, I'm not so sure I accept it. Space's item description said 'another player', not a non-Mafia. From what I can tell, he wasn't a vanilla Mafia, and he could kill indiscriminately. I'd like to believe that the other Mafia has a similar ability, though not the same. I don't think we have two of any role.

@Jabberwok: Why did it take you so long to reply to my post? You didn't have any comments after reading it?

I've tried to be as blunt as possible about where I lie on topics, but if I'm hard to read I'll try harder.

Jabberwok

@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:

I realise I never threw down my vote.
Vote lynch: Jabberwok

I outright said that I don't think there's a third party. I didn't ignore it at all. In fact you answered the question immediately preceding my answer. And while I acknowledge the answer you gave to my 'Mafia killing Mafia' question, I'm not so sure I accept it. Space's item description said 'another player', not a non-Mafia. From what I can tell, he wasn't a vanilla Mafia, and he could kill indiscriminately. I'd like to believe that the other Mafia has a similar ability, though not the same. I don't think we have two of any role.

Let me get this straight. You think there are two Mafia, they have similar abilities (despite getting different items), and Space was killed by the remaining Mafia. Even in Foolio's scenario, the two Mafia don't know each other. Yet your main 'evidence' against me is Space's weird defense of me supposedly because he knew I was his scum buddy. Those are directly contradictory theories that pretty much can't mix.

Vote Lynch: SUDK

You've gone from thinking I'm Innocent to looking to lynch me based solely on foolish conjecture that directly contradicts your other assumptions.

@Jabberwok: Why did it take you so long to reply to my post? You didn't have any comments after reading it?

I've tried to be as blunt as possible about where I lie on topics, but if I'm hard to read I'll try harder.

I was sleeping and then I had work. Don't get on my case about timely responses when you've been absent for large parts of the game.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Going to sleep now and won't be back before the day ends. If you all lynch me, go after SuDK next. And eat crow, all of you.

SomebodyUDon'tKnow

By 'similar ability' I meant pretty much the same ability with a different role name. Definitely see how that was worded poorly.

I was on your case because you replied to a portion of my post, but not any of the actual content of it. You didn't even make mention of it, which was odd. Granted, I didn't specifically call you out or ask for a response.

Foolio

For the love of god someone hammer. It's 2:30 am now and I won't be awake when the day ends.

Shinobu Mahara

Okay after 7 and a half hours of me trying to move all my stuff into this god forsaken caravan, i am finally ready to have a break and quickly post my views.

However with todays events that i have slowly been working through, it seems the best call is to really see if jabber can flip mafia. I know personally that i dont believe he is, but losing a lynch this far into it im not completely okay with.
Its just that jabbers is getting some hella shade at the moment, and i havent exactly contributed much today. A hammer may look bad, but really if i dont actually contribute i'd look even worse.
Not only that but although SUDK and Wooden have been here and there in terms of posts, I cant say that i've proven myself more compitent than them, nor have i got a reason to really find them suspicious at all.
Aside from being interrogated by foolio i mostly agreed to most of his point of views. I wanna believe jabber is town, but by god do we need to do something today.. as you yourself say we cant afford to mislynch/not lynch today.
SUDK's take from todays events really put things into perspective if indeed they're right, which would be great but im still thinking that we are going after the wrong guy..

I understand its completely contradictory to what feeling ive discussed before. And i'm still really wanting to see foolio's flip.
So 99% probably gonna regret this but

Vote lynch: Jabberwok

Shuhan

Day ended at 9:00 am est (so sorry ><)

Jabberwok has been lynched. His item was the mysterious box. Inside was nothing. The tag states " you are a townie. You have no abilities and you win when all threats to the town are eliminated."

You have till 9:00 am est to send in actions.

Foolio

? ? ?

Shuhan

Welp, I believe that's game.

Sorry about the extra time to the night, but after work, I just couldnt get out of bed for most of the day. Either way, with all the night shenanigans, the mafia got a kill out on Wooden and now it's two on two.

Mafia wins.

Sorry SuDoKu, even if you jailed Foolio, it wouldn't have stopped Ami from killing Woody

SpaceCowboy

I might be crazy, but wasn't it 2-2 by the end of D3?

SomebodyUDon'tKnow

It was.
Good game, even though I pretty much had no activity until the end. Didn't suspect Shinobu at all.
He's male by the way, Space.