I'm adding the Zou Arc to my favourites because of the game changing chapter that just got released
Favorite and Least Favorite Story Arcs
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@Don:
It lacks the importance for the overall story development.
That doesn't mean an arc can't be entertaining as all heck though (case in point: Davy Back Fight). And on that note, Whiskey Peak is highly entertaining.
With its giant cacti and wild west feel it is visually distinct, and certainly the most unique location at that point of the story, signifying the move to the Grand Line. The weather shenanigans pre-arrival also show off the novelty of the GL in a fun way. The initial subversion with a warm welcome is interesting, and makes forfunny crewmember moments and feeds into 2½ chapters of distilled badass Zoro funtimes from when Zoro wasn't as stoned-facedly boring. Then the story shifts into intrigue with the arrival of the mr 5 pair, throwing factions within the villain group and undercover agents into the mix, and making everyone involved seem more interesting and 3-dimensional. Then, of course, we get the hilarious Zoro vs Luffy fight, getting unique abilities, fun moves and creative choreography thrown at us the entire way. And finally, as the crew leaves the island, theres the higly memorable first meeting with Robin.Whiskey Peak is solid shonen craft, and crams a ton of fun into its measly 9 chapters. Its not just "the arc that setup the next 100 chapters of fighting a warlord" (which was an unique and interesting direction for the series at the time), it was also fun in its own right. To atomize a dead horse, personally I'd like Zou to take more hints from Whiskey Peak.
I'll hold out on ranking Zou until its done, but as is, my rankings for the New World arcs would probably be
1: Punk Hazard
2: Fishman Island
3: Dressrosa -
@Daz:
And on that note, Whiskey Peak is highly entertaining.
It is for sure. I think Whiskey Peak isn't a bad arc at all it's just not as good as the others. I would probably enjoy reading Whiskey Peak more than Dressrosa, actually I would certainly enjoy it more because there is no disappointment from that arc while I regularly get disappointed and frustrated while reading Dressrosa and I don't think I will ever be able to read it fully again. However while I would enjoy Whiskey Peak more I rated Dressrosa higher because it is objectively a better arc with the story between Law and Doflamingo. And I think Whiskey peak is also lacking compared to the other short arcs such as Jaya, Shabondy, Little garden or Loguetown.
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@Daz:
That doesn't mean an arc can't be entertaining as all heck though (case in point: Davy Back Fight). And on that note, Whiskey Peak is highly entertaining.
With its giant cacti and wild west feel it is visually distinct, and certainly the most unique location at that point of the story, signifying the move to the Grand Line. The weather shenanigans pre-arrival also show off the novelty of the GL in a fun way. The initial subversion with a warm welcome is interesting, and makes forfunny crewmember moments and feeds into 2½ chapters of distilled badass Zoro funtimes from when Zoro wasn't as stoned-facedly boring. Then the story shifts into intrigue with the arrival of the mr 5 pair, throwing factions within the villain group and undercover agents into the mix, and making everyone involved seem more interesting and 3-dimensional. Then, of course, we get the hilarious Zoro vs Luffy fight, getting unique abilities, fun moves and creative choreography thrown at us the entire way. And finally, as the crew leaves the island, theres the higly memorable first meeting with Robin.Whiskey Peak is solid shonen craft, and crams a ton of fun into its measly 9 chapters. Its not just "the arc that setup the next 100 chapters of fighting a warlord" (which was an unique and interesting direction for the series at the time), it was also fun in its own right. To atomize a dead horse, personally I'd like Zou to take more hints from Whiskey Peak.
I'll hold out on ranking Zou until its done, but as is, my rankings for the New World arcs would probably be
1: Punk Hazard
2: Fishman Island
3: DressrosaI also love the Davy Back Fight.
Always found it amazing to get such a comedic arc. Just like Oda wanted just a good time, that makes the journey more believable.
So definitely liked that and also on Whiskey Peak the shot showing the hills and getting closer to the graves…amazing.
The Zoro fight against those hundred killers is still refreshing to reread.
My point wasn´t that Whiskey Peak was in any way not entertaining, just compared to the sheer amount of arcs, who were so much deeper and had even more awesome moments...it´s reasonable to rank it lower.Ranking Fishman Island behind Dressrosa is hopely just your momentary impression after coming right out of the arc.
Obviously you pointed out many reasons why Dressrosa failed to deliever in your opinion, but the strong moments definitely should outshine Fishman Island after some time has passed, where actually the flashback of Tiger and Otohime stole the cake.
But we might anyway appreciate different "highlights" in this series :) -
@Don:
Ranking Fishman Island behind Dressrosa is hopely just your momentary impression after coming right out of the arc.
Obviously you pointed out many reasons why Dressrosa failed to deliever in your opinion, but the strong moments definitely should outshine Fishman Island after some time has passed, where actually the flashback of Tiger and Otohime stole the cake.It's not so surprising considering that Dressrosa's low moments outshine Fishman Island's low moments as well. Both of these arcs share some of the worst chapters of the series anyway. But one could see Fishman Island as a fun and not so long little trip with some nice backgrounds and mythology while Dressrosa can be experienced as a very long and slow agony if you don't like it.
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Doffy was a good villain though. Unlike a certain great white shark fishman and a certain goverment intelligence.
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@le:
Doffy was a good villain though.
That's…debatable. While he sure got a nice backstory, his villainous role throughout Dressrosa has been highly disappointing for some. For example Crocodile had no backstory or whatsoever but he was a much better villain than Doflamingo imo.
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That's…debatable. While he sure got a nice backstory, his villainous role throughout Dressrosa has been highly disappointing for some. For example Crocodile had no backstory or whatsoever but he was a much better villain than Doflamingo imo.
Doffy stands out as a character far more than Crocodile ever did.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It's not so surprising considering that Dressrosa's low moments outshine Fishman Island's low moments as well. Both of these arcs share some of the worst chapters of the series anyway. But one could see Fishman Island as a fun and not so long little trip with some nice backgrounds and mythology while Dressrosa can be experienced as a very long and slow agony if you don't like it.
I know that Dressrosa gets lot of flake probably due to being recent in people's mind, just like how Skypeai was when it was finished, and how it's length is always one of the main points of people's criticism. But having re-read it recently with good translations, i can say that it's easily one of the best arc's in the series with some of the most memorable side characters in the entire series, along with having the best written villain character in the entire series. And while i never ever count the fights in the arc as pros but Luffy vs Doffy was especially amazing both visually and thematically which made it one of the more memorable battles in the series then the empty battle between someone like Rob Lucci.
And it's length is no-brainer considering how many things the arc had in it, and it needed to take it's time with it. The first half of Dressrosa felt a lot more rushed, i know people are very fond of saying that the first half was good but it clearly suffered from having lots of characters without sitting down and allowing for breathing time and the audience to care. But the second half seemed to have fixed that, and was taking it's time with it's characters and the story of Dressrosa, which to me is the definition of a good pacing.
And yes to address the obvious, Rebecca is one of the worst characters in the series, and is the biggest weakness of the arc, but that in itself doesn't bring the shit ton of amazing things the arc had for my experience. It's not a perfect by any means, but then again neither of the previous arc's have been flawless.
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Doffy stands out as a character far more than Crocodile ever did.
But that doesn't make it a better villain, we are stricly speaking about the villainy role here. While Crocodile was very active as a villain, Doflamingo was basically waiting to get defeated during 60 chapters, that can be disappointing.
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But that doesn't make it a better villain, we are stricly speaking about the villainy role here. While Crocodile was very active as a villain, Doflamingo was basically waiting to get defeated during 60 chapters, that can be disappointing.
Doffy was a lot more active once the tournament stuff happened. And he didn't needed to be active in the first half because he had what he needed ( Law), unlike Crocodile who was attacking Alabasta compare to Doffy who was defending his place. And technically Doffy was successful in defeating Luffy in gear four by tiring him out. If it wasn't for the side characters helping Luffy recover, Doffy would have succeed in his plan unlike Crocodile.
Basically Doffy had everything that Crocodile was trying to accomplish but didn't.
Also Crocodile didn't get involved personally in Alabasta arc until the war between the royal guards and rebels started.
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i can say that it's easily one of the best arc's in the series with some of the most memorable side characters in the entire series,
Well I can say it's one of the worst arc in the series with some of the most forgetable side characters in the entire series
And while i never ever count the fights in the arc as pros but Luffy vs Doffy was especially amazing both visually and thematically which made it one of the more memorable battles in the series then the empty battle between someone like Rob Lucci.
It's funny, I found Luffy vs Doflamingo fight to be surprisingly empty and shallow.
And yes to address the obvious, Rebecca is one of the worst characters in the series, and is the biggest weakness of the arc, but that in itself doesn't bring the shit ton of amazing things the arc had for my experience.
Oh boy, if it was only Rebecca, the arc would still be very enjoyable to read. But there is the birdcage too, the fights executed poorly, the focus switching every 5 panels, the presence of too many characters and unecessary plotlines, the dwarves, the lack of straw hats, all the running from one point to another throughout dozen of chapters, the tournament, the seats being arrogant and incompetent villains, the climax being dragged on with everyone pushing out the birdcage, the dressrosians being complete jerks throughout the arc…This arc had way too many lows for me to like it.
Doffy was a lot more active once the tournament stuff happened. And he didn't needed to be active in the first half because he had what he needed ( Law), unlike Crocodile who was attacking Alabasta compare to Doffy who was defending his place.
Basically all Doflamingo did was sitting on his chair during 60 chapters and talking about how awesome he was and above everyone else and also using a clone from time to time and using an unbreakable and convenient plot device (birdcage).
And technically Doffy was successful in defeating Luffy in gear four by tiring him out. If it wasn't for the side characters helping Luffy recover, Doffy would have succeed in his plan unlike Crocodile.
Well then let's say that Gear 4 was successful in tiring Luffy out.
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But that doesn't make it a better villain, we are stricly speaking about the villainy role here. While Crocodile was very active as a villain, Doflamingo was basically waiting to get defeated during 60 chapters, that can be disappointing.
Doffy in every way is a better villain than Crocodile ever was.
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Doffy was a lot more active once the tournament stuff happened. And he didn't needed to be active in the first half because he had what he needed ( Law), unlike Crocodile who was attacking Alabasta compare to Doffy who was defending his place. And technically Doffy was successful in defeating Luffy in gear four by tiring him out. If it wasn't for the side characters helping Luffy recover, Doffy would have succeed in his plan unlike Crocodile.
Basically Doffy had everything that Crocodile was trying to accomplish but didn't.
Also Crocodile didn't get involved personally in Alabasta arc until the war between the royal guards and rebels started.
Exactly. Doffy already had accomplished what Crocodile failed to do.
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@Daz:
That doesn't mean an arc can't be entertaining as all heck though (case in point: Davy Back Fight). And on that note, Whiskey Peak is highly entertaining.
With its giant cacti and wild west feel it is visually distinct, and certainly the most unique location at that point of the story, signifying the move to the Grand Line. The weather shenanigans pre-arrival also show off the novelty of the GL in a fun way. The initial subversion with a warm welcome is interesting, and makes forfunny crewmember moments and feeds into 2½ chapters of distilled badass Zoro funtimes from when Zoro wasn't as stoned-facedly boring. Then the story shifts into intrigue with the arrival of the mr 5 pair, throwing factions within the villain group and undercover agents into the mix, and making everyone involved seem more interesting and 3-dimensional. Then, of course, we get the hilarious Zoro vs Luffy fight, getting unique abilities, fun moves and creative choreography thrown at us the entire way. And finally, as the crew leaves the island, theres the higly memorable first meeting with Robin.Whiskey Peak is solid shonen craft, and crams a ton of fun into its measly 9 chapters. Its not just "the arc that setup the next 100 chapters of fighting a warlord" (which was an unique and interesting direction for the series at the time), it was also fun in its own right. To atomize a dead horse, personally I'd like Zou to take more hints from Whiskey Peak.
I'll hold out on ranking Zou until its done, but as is, my rankings for the New World arcs would probably be
1: Punk Hazard
2: Fishman Island
3: DressrosaI also eel like fishman island is really underrated by some, cough one piece podcast but I wouldnt have it ovee Dressarosa, I already know why some people dont like Dressarosa ( the crew splitting, weren't that invested in the riku's, too much fighting chapter's by allies and length in general ) but what does the fishman island arc do very well IYO
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Doflamingo as a villain suffers from the same thing Dressrosa as a whole did: a complete and utter lack of restraint with a continued appliance of new ideas, which individually all fall short. Doflamingo certainly has more "depth" as a character than Crocodile ever did in that we know more about him, but he's implemented terribly as a villain because he's pulled in a gazillion different directions at once. Doflamingo is part of a ton of plots, and a myriad characters all have beef with him for different reasons. Ultimately only his relationship with Law, which sort of morphs into existence as Dressrosa goes along, is the only thing given real focus, though ultimately, very little closure. Have you guys considered that present-day Doflamingo barely acknowledges the existence of anyone else that have decade-long vendettas against him? I don't know if he ever even calls Rebecca by name. He doesn't even notice or react to losing Mansherry and the factory, so everyone going against him feels very one-sided and impersonal. Not helping is his muddled ambition and lack of clear endgoal, and the fact that he spends 60 chapters of the arc waiting in his palace for the heroes to get him, like a castlevania villain….or Juha Bach.
I could-and still might-write an entire essay on Doflamingos shortcomings as a villain. In the case of Croc vs Doffy, I know which Warlord Living On Summer Island Who Framed Its Royalty and Is Beloved By the Citizens And Runs A Secret Underground Network And Is Elaboratedly Targeted By the Heroes comes out on top: Crocs ambitions were clear, and his opposition to the Alabastans made personal.
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I'm currently rereading Dressrosa and since I'm not finished yet, I'll not give a final verdict for the arc just yet. I'm right at the point where the Birdcage stuff is starting, so let's wait and see how the climax of the arc holds up, how much the birdcage stuff starts to drag, if the fights really are unsatisfying. But I can say that the first part of the arc has been freaking amazing. First of all, I love the whole tournament. You come into the arc expecting immediate conflict with Doflamingo's family and instead, Oda sets that whole thing aside for a while and throws a huge curveball for the reader by introducing the tournament. At first reading, this may make the reader a little unsure of where Oda is going and what the point of all this is, but now I can just enjoy how much fun Oda seems to have with depicting this classic tournament story line and introducing such an immense number of new, colorful characters, none of which seem to have any relation to the actual plot at first. These characters all have such creative designs and personalities and the fact that we now know that most of them will play a big role in the climax and are set up to become allies in the future of the story makes this even better. So yeah, I just can't understand the hate for the tournament itself, it's pure Oda for me.
What impatient readers may detest, but what I really enjoy so far is the pace. Oda really takes his time before he finally explains further what the deal with the toys is, what the story of Dressrosa is etc. And the payoff is great, especially because of the great, quick flashbacks we get from King Riku and the Toy Soldier which really highlight the tragedy of this island(and side note, atleast up to this point, the relationship between the Toy Soldier i.e. Kyros and Rebecca is incredibly engaging and moving. I know the disappointment Rebecca brought to me and pretty much everybody else, but at this point, she is likeable). So far, except for Sugar and Trebol, the reader has only gotten glimpses of Doflamingo's crew, an appearance by Dellinger here, a few moments from the fight between Franky and Senor Pink there. I don't know, maybe I'm just incredibly patient, but I really enjoy this slow, methodical build-up to everything. And Doflamingo so far is a great villain; again, Oda really takes his time before he makes him appear in Dressrosa, and when he finally attacks Law out of nowhere on Green Bit, he comes across as very frightening and powerful.
So yeah, first half of Dress Rosa gets two thumbs up from me and I'm anxious to discover how disappointing the second half will really turn out to be.
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Doffy in every way is a better villain than Crocodile ever was.
nope
basically:
@Daz:
Doflamingo as a villain suffers from the same thing Dressrosa as a whole did: a complete and utter lack of restraint with a continued appliance of new ideas, which individually all fall short. Doflamingo certainly has more "depth" as a character than Crocodile ever did in that we know more about him, but he's implemented terribly as a villain because he's pulled in a gazillion different directions at once. Doflamingo is part of a ton of plots, and a myriad characters all have beef with him for different reasons. Ultimately only his relationship with Law, which sort of morphs into existence as Dressrosa goes along, is the only thing given real focus, though ultimately, very little closure. Have you guys considered that present-day Doflamingo barely acknowledges the existence of anyone else that have decade-long vendettas against him? I don't know if he ever even calls Rebecca by name. He doesn't even notice or react to losing Mansherry and the factory, so everyone going against him feels very one-sided and impersonal. Not helping is his muddled motivation and lack of clear goal, and the fact that he spends 60 chapters of the arc waiting in his palace for the heroes to get, him, like a castlevania villain….or Juha Bach.
I could-and still might-write an entire essay on Doflamingos shortcomings as a villain. In the case of Croc vs Doffy, less is definetly more; Crocs ambitions were clear, and his opposition to the Alabastans made personal.
@Heavenly:
Exactly. Doffy already had accomplished what Crocodile failed to do.
You make it sound like Doflamingo is a better villain because he was lucky enough to meet the main character later than Crocodile.
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However while I would enjoy Whiskey Peak more I rated Dressrosa higher because it is objectively a better arc with the story between Law and Doflamingo.
You're free to rate how you like, but I think its hard to say one arc is "objectively" better than the other, when they're going for completely different things. Alabasta was going for something very different than Davy Back Fight, which was going for something very different than Impel Down etc. Ultimately, one can just compare how well the arcs accomplished what they set out to do (Arlong Park suceeded in being emotionally engaging, Fishman Island failed at providing an enjoyable climax etc) -and how entertaining the arcs are, of course.
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I definitely think Crocodile was a better villain than Doflamingo. We actually get to see Crocodile's cunning and intelligence against Alabasta and the Strawhats. Doflamingo may have succeeded where Crocodile failed, but his actions lack the foresight that Crocodile had. His plans mostly revolved around having specific, particularly hax powers under his control.
Crocodile at least had to work to get to where he was in Alabasta. -
@Bond:
His plans mostly revolved around having specific, particularly hax powers under his control.
Crocodile at least had to work to get to where he was in Alabasta.yea, this too. Doflamingo was surrounded by convenient and lazy plot device that made him what he is today. I was very disappointed when we found out that Sugar was the one who made the toys and thus Doflamingo's whole empire. Also being able to turn someone into a toy, make everyone forget about him and being able to CONTROL him. Oh boy…
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@Don:
Ranking Fishman Island behind Dressrosa is hopely just your momentary impression after coming right out of the arc.
Obviously you pointed out many reasons why Dressrosa failed to deliever in your opinion, but the strong moments definitely should outshine Fishman Island after some time has passed, where actually the flashback of Tiger and Otohime stole the cake.
But we might anyway appreciate different "highlights" in this series :)@Long:
I also eel like fishman island is really underrated by some, cough one piece podcast but I wouldnt have it ovee Dressarosa, I already know why some people dont like Dressarosa ( the crew splitting, weren't that invested in the riku's, too much fighting chapter's by allies and length in general ) but what does the fishman island arc do very well IYO
I might've been hasty in ranking Dressrosa lower; perhaps it'd be more correct to rate them as more or less equally dissapointing, but for different reasons. Fishman Island was a non-starter arc which squandered a lot of its creative potential, but was pretty thematically sound. Dressrosa probably had higher highs, but also a ton of lost potential and questionable writing as it went along. I'd summarize Fishman Island as "boring" and Dressrosa as "a cluttered mess"; judging which is worse is tricky, but Dressrosa showed a lot of tendencies that continue to worry me going forward in the series.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Bond:
I definitely think Crocodile was a better villain than Doflamingo. We actually get to see Crocodile's cunning and intelligence against Alabasta and the Strawhats. Doflamingo may have succeeded where Crocodile failed, but his actions lack the foresight that Crocodile had. His plans mostly revolved around having specific, particularly hax powers under his control.
Crocodile at least had to work to get to where he was in Alabasta.I think a crucial mistake was making a deliberate point of "Doflamingo knows about Luffy! He won't underestimate him!"…and then having Doffy underestimate Luffy to sub-Bond villain levels. When Doflamingo kicks everyone off the palace because "STARS game mfufufufufu", and the game then falls apart instantly, its forced as heck and makes Doffy look moronic. Throwing in "Doffy has been monitoring Luffy ever since Alabasta!!!!" makes the whole thing even more bizarre, and stuff like not noticing that his factory/backup Dwarf are lost make him seem clueless.
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During the Dressrosa arc, I was more invested in the conflict between Law and Doflamingo rather than with the Riku's because of the fact that the Riku's as characters except probably Viola and Kyros were rather weak characters. Even then Viola and Kyros had weaknesses, Viola didn't get that much screentime giving her insight about her time with the Donquxiote Family and Kyros really whined too much about the fact he killed two people in the past because of the fact that people have done much worse in this series and sleep well at night. If you got rid of King Riku and Rebecca, and just focused on Viola and Kyros it would have been better. I really thought King Riku and Rebecca as a whole were wishy washy characters who were rather bland and added nothing at all.
I actually do see Doflamingo as a great villain because of his in depth characterization and history behind how he became the man he is today. And I want to bring up the fact that Doflamingo planned for years to take over Dressrosa and did work to dethrone the Riku family. I also like the fact that Doflamingo really is like the Joker in demeanor and really steals the show whenever he's present.
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@Bond:
I definitely think Crocodile was a better villain than Doflamingo. We actually get to see Crocodile's cunning and intelligence against Alabasta and the Strawhats. Doflamingo may have succeeded where Crocodile failed, but his actions lack the foresight that Crocodile had. His plans mostly revolved around having specific, particularly hax powers under his control.
Crocodile at least had to work to get to where he was in Alabasta.By taking the rain away from the areas and blaming it on the king? I am really curious to know how Crocodile was better when he also had hax powers to achieve what he wanted to.
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nope
basically:
You make it sound like Doflamingo is a better villain because he was lucky enough to meet the main character later than Crocodile.
And you are trying to say that Crocodile is a better villain because he didn't have hax powers?
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And you are trying to say that Crocodile is a better villain because he didn't have hax powers?
No??
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=43303&page=11&p=3606668&viewfull=1#post3606668
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=43303&page=11&p=3606692&viewfull=1#post3606692 -
yea, this too. Doflamingo was surrounded by convenient and lazy plot device that made him what he is today. I was very disappointed when we found out that Sugar was the one who made the toys and thus Doflamingo's whole empire. Also being able to turn someone into a toy, make everyone forget about him and being able to CONTROL him. Oh boy...
Yes because having someone that can take the king's face, and then publicly seen abusing civilians is ton better, right?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
No??
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=43303&page=11&p=3606668&viewfull=1#post3606668
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=43303&page=11&p=3606692&viewfull=1#post3606692And i already explained that Crocodile didn't get involved until the battle began and then revealed his truth motives or are we going to pretend that didn't happen?
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Yes because having someone that can take the king's face, and then publicly seen abusing civilians is ton better, right?
Are you being stupid on purpose? Can't you see that Mr2's devil fruit only contain one power while Sugar has like 3 different powers into one?
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@Daz:
Doflamingo as a villain suffers from the same thing Dressrosa as a whole did: a complete and utter lack of restraint with a continued appliance of new ideas, which individually all fall short. Doflamingo certainly has more "depth" as a character than Crocodile ever did in that we know more about him, but he's implemented terribly as a villain because he's pulled in a gazillion different directions at once. Doflamingo is part of a ton of plots, and a myriad characters all have beef with him for different reasons. Ultimately only his relationship with Law, which sort of morphs into existence as Dressrosa goes along, is the only thing given real focus, though ultimately, very little closure. Have you guys considered that present-day Doflamingo barely acknowledges the existence of anyone else that have decade-long vendettas against him? I don't know if he ever even calls Rebecca by name. He doesn't even notice or react to losing Mansherry and the factory, so everyone going against him feels very one-sided and impersonal. Not helping is his muddled ambition and lack of clear endgoal, and the fact that he spends 60 chapters of the arc waiting in his palace for the heroes to get him, like a castlevania villain….or Juha Bach.
I could-and still might-write an entire essay on Doflamingos shortcomings as a villain. In the case of Croc vs Doffy, I know which Warlord Living On Summer Island Who Framed Its Royalty and Is Beloved By the Citizens And Runs A Secret Underground Network And Is Elaboratedly Targeted By the Heroes comes out on top: Crocs ambitions were clear, and his opposition to the Alabastans made personal.
Does Doffy need to have some kind of personal agenda against the civilians? I also don't remember Crocodile ever giving a shit about other's except Vivi's family because they were relevant to his plans. Everything else was just a stepping-stone and nothing more, or am i missing something here?
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Speaking as someone who's new to One Piece, and who read everything from the beginning of the series up until chapter 812 at once (instead of week-by-week like I am now), I have to agree with HeartOfDarkness; I think Dressrosa is actually a really good arc. In fact, for me, the story's been getting better and better post-TS. I rank it as: Zou (so far) > Dressrosa > Punk Hazard >= Fishman Island (and I don't hate a single one of those arcs).
Is it perfect? Definitely not. It is very long, and there are some parts in the beginning of the arc that felt a bit rushed and parts at the end that were a little slow. Even some unnecessary parts like the Birdcage and the delay of the final fight. But as HeartOfDarkness said, there was a lot to cover, so the length at least made sense, and I thought the pacing was pretty good for the most part. There were a ton of characters introduced, so many that it was impossible to care about all of them, and not all of them were very good characters (cough Rebecca cough). At the same time, some of them were excellent and more than made up for it. Cavendish and Bartolomeo in particular are two of the best additions ever to the supporting cast, Corazon is easily the best flashback character in the series and my favorite from any medium, Sabo came back as an awesome badass, and I really liked Sai and Baby 5, too. In fact, the new characters that I liked or at least was neutral towards vastly outnumber the ones I didn't. I do agree that I wish all the Straw Hats had been there, but at the same time, the Curly Hats being on Zou before the others is proving to be important to setting up the next part of the plot.
I also loved the fleshing out of both Law's and Doflamingo's characters–how Law became more than just the typical "hot, stoic, mysterious Shonen rival" and how Doffy went from "sadistic murderous psychopath" to "sadistic murderous psychopath with a complicated and horrible backstory." As a villain, I too like Doflamingo even more than Crocodile (and I still do think Crocodile is one of the most awesome villains in the series). Crocodile not getting a backstory made him seem like one of those villains who was just "evil for the sake of being evil" and we don't entirely know why he is the way he is. With Doffy, we're shown in colorful detail that his bad past did make him worse, but also that he was screwed up to begin with. Basically, we know for sure that he's an irredeemable sociopath and a complete monster because he's a three-dimensional character, and we've seen many different facets of his personality.
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lets make a thread about best villain and discuss these things there
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Are you being stupid on purpose? Can't you see that Mr2's devil fruit only contain one power while Sugar has like 3 different powers into one?
So? What's that got to do with anything? …... Are we seriously counting powers? Or the plot devices? Because Mr.2's powers played a very significant role in Croco's plans. The basic gist is that both of them used plot devices for their plans.
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who was just "evil for the sake of being evil" and we don't entirely know why he is the way he is
oda told why he became evil in sbs
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So? What's that got to do with anything? …... Are we seriously counting powers? Or the plot devices? Because Mr.2's powers played a very significant role in Croco's plans. The basic gist is that both of them used plot devices for their plans.
Sugar's powers show exactly that kind sloppy writing that's been detoriaring the arc. It was way too convenient and lazy. Just like birdcage being unbreakable. Dressrosa as a whole was poorly written and those are just a few examples.
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Sugar's powers show exactly that kind sloppy writing that's been detoriaring the arc. It was way too convenient and lazy. Just like birdcage being unbreable. Dressrosa as a whole was poorly written and those are just a few examples**.**
How was it lazy though? That's like claiming the Alabasta arc was lazy just because the entire conflict relied on a single person's power to change-face, and abuse civilians.
Sugar powers were consistent, and pretty-well-defined. Oda didn't go and constantly change the general working of the fruit. Her powers maybe convenient but nothing close to being lazy, and sloppery written.
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@Daz:
Doflamingo as a villain suffers from the same thing Dressrosa as a whole did: a complete and utter lack of restraint with a continued appliance of new ideas, which individually all fall short. Doflamingo certainly has more "depth" as a character than Crocodile ever did in that we know more about him, but he's implemented terribly as a villain because he's pulled in a gazillion different directions at once. Doflamingo is part of a ton of plots, and a myriad characters all have beef with him for different reasons. Ultimately only his relationship with Law, which sort of morphs into existence as Dressrosa goes along, is the only thing given real focus, though ultimately, very little closure. Have you guys considered that present-day Doflamingo barely acknowledges the existence of anyone else that have decade-long vendettas against him? I don't know if he ever even calls Rebecca by name. He doesn't even notice or react to losing Mansherry and the factory, so everyone going against him feels very one-sided and impersonal. Not helping is his muddled ambition and lack of clear endgoal, and the fact that he spends 60 chapters of the arc waiting in his palace for the heroes to get him, like a castlevania villain….or Juha Bach.
I could-and still might-write an entire essay on Doflamingos shortcomings as a villain. In the case of Croc vs Doffy, I know which Warlord Living On Summer Island Who Framed Its Royalty and Is Beloved By the Citizens And Runs A Secret Underground Network And Is Elaboratedly Targeted By the Heroes comes out on top: Crocs ambitions were clear, and his opposition to the Alabastans made personal.
About who´s the better villain between Crocodile and DoFlamingo. (thank god nobody in his right mind would think Hodi is even close)
I think both are highly enjoyable.
Croc has the bonus of the first real big bad evil, we all just waited for.
And in no way did he disappoint. He was simply a wall for Luffy, who could defeat almost anyone first try and here he had to suffer two times a defeat.
Nice to see there his character trait of never giving up to the fullest extent, the first time shown. He was at all times dominant and threatening just like Doffy was.
With Doffy i loved, that Oda went in a much darker territory.That the NW will get much darker stories i predicted a while back and so far i enjoy each moment i get in such a comedic-adventure manga.
The background was complex and stunning to watch develop such a being sitting in the center of the underground world and spinning his strings.
Not getting a glimpse into the events that shaped this character i think would be a big mistake.
I find it fascinating to get some moments from the life of a character, so that i as a reader can judge how it influenced the character.
Not getting closure on everything makes it more likely people will talk about it. (unless everything not closed is automatically bad writing)@Daz:
I think a crucial mistake was making a deliberate point of "Doflamingo knows about Luffy! He won't underestimate him!"…and then having Doffy underestimate Luffy to sub-Bond villain levels. When Doflamingo kicks everyone off the palace because "STARS game mfufufufufu", and the game then falls apart instantly, its forced as heck and makes Doffy look moronic. Throwing in "Doffy has been monitoring Luffy ever since Alabasta!!!!" makes the whole thing even more bizarre, and stuff like not noticing that his factory/backup Dwarf are lost make him seem clueless.
You bring up some good points that make it obvious that he will be defeated in the end :)
It´s obvious that EVERY villain will in some way underestimate Luffy.
They all do it and that is what brings Luffy into the game.
Bringing the final ultimate attack first would obviously solve for every villain the problem, but that´s not how it can be written.
We readers want the underestimation so that a fight can develop and they go to the "serious final attack-mode".
But i agree with you that saying he monitored Luffy was doomed because he has to be defeated.Him losing Mansherry and the factory was in my interpretation him not caring anymore and going berserk modus.
He already knew to that time, that his whole crew was defeated and that he ringed anyways the bell to die for everyone with the birdcage.
It´s hard for me to imagine, him not knowing that he was on a sinking ship.
The factory would have been anyways useless, because he could rebuild it and the important part here was anyways Cesear.
Doffy could sure restart after destroying everything and gathering the remains of his crew, but his plans regarding Dressrosa, to reign there as a king, have his underground business there, grow SMILES and using the dwarfes, was all lost.
But also your interpretation is understandable in my eyes.@Daz:
I might've been hasty in ranking Dressrosa lower; perhaps it'd be more correct to rate them as more or less equally dissapointing, but for different reasons.
How humble of you, to correct your bitter mistake.
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My most favorite would be the Water 7/Enies Lobby arc. Honestly, that arc is amazing due to how epic, dynamic, and emotional it was, along with other things that made a one piece fan out of me! Another favorite of me would be the MarineFord war arc. :)
My least favorite arc would be the Davy Back arc. It just feels so boring to me. The only decent thing about it was the fight with Afro Luffy vs Foxy.
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Does Doffy need to have some kind of personal agenda against the civilians? I also don't remember Crocodile ever giving a shit about other's except Vivi's family because they were relevant to his plans. Everything else was just a stepping-stone and nothing more, or am i missing something here?
No-one outside of the Royal family were aware of Crocs plans, and had hence no personal vendettas against him. But once you knew, Croc made sure to personally shit all over everything you stood for, whether you're Vivi, Kohza, Smoker or Tashigi. And sometimes he'd just ruin a poor old mans life for shits and giggles, an old man we'd been led to like, and make a point of laughing in the heroes faces about it.
In Dressrosa, everyone and their uncle have a different, personal grudge against Doflamingo, time is spent establishing this, and everyone get universally short thrift apart from Law. Doflamingo is a case of quantity over quality when it comes to protagonist-antagonist relationships.
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@Daz:
No-one outside of the Royal family were aware of Crocs plans, and had hence no personal vendettas against him. But once you knew, Croc made sure to personally shit all over everything you stood for, whether you're Vivi, Kohza, Smoker or Tashigi. And sometimes he'd just ruin a poor old mans life for shits and giggles, an old man we'd been led to like, and make a point of laughing in the heroes faces about it.
In Dressrosa, everyone and their uncle have a different, personal grudge against Doflamingo, time is spent establishing this, and everyone get universally short thrift apart from Law. Doflamingo is a case of quantity over quality when it comes to protagonist-antagonist relationships.
Doffy? The character who presumably wears glasses to not show his humanity and be different from humans? The character who considers his birth-right to be above "puny" humans? The character who destroyed towns as a kid when he simply fall down? The character who doesn't give a shit about anyone except his "family", Law( or rather his fruit) and Kaidou? The character who killed his own father just to go back to CD's paradise instead of staying with "humans"? And you are asking why Doffy doesn't care about the civilians of Dressrosa?
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Doffy stands out as a character far more than Crocodile ever did.
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I know that Dressrosa gets lot of flake probably due to being recent in people's mind, just like how Skypeai was when it was finished, and how it's length is always one of the main points of people's criticism. But having re-read it recently with good translations, i can say that it's easily one of the best arc's in the series with some of the most memorable side characters in the entire series, along with having the best written villain character in the entire series. And while i never ever count the fights in the arc as pros but Luffy vs Doffy was especially amazing both visually and thematically which made it one of the more memorable battles in the series then the empty battle between someone like Rob Lucci.
And it's length is no-brainer considering how many things the arc had in it, and it needed to take it's time with it. The first half of Dressrosa felt a lot more rushed, i know people are very fond of saying that the first half was good but it clearly suffered from having lots of characters without sitting down and allowing for breathing time and the audience to care. But the second half seemed to have fixed that, and was taking it's time with it's characters and the story of Dressrosa, which to me is the definition of a good pacing.
And yes to address the obvious, Rebecca is one of the worst characters in the series, and is the biggest weakness of the arc, but that in itself doesn't bring the shit ton of amazing things the arc had for my experience. It's not a perfect by any means, but then again neither of the previous arc's have been flawless.
Rebecca's problems mostly harken to the fact that oda introduced her as a badass warrior xena person and then made her a person who only blocks attacks and then robbing her of making any diference by making her fight way too strong characters / kyros fightblock her every time she wanted to do something. Oda mishandled her due to his bad handling of women fighters in general. The riku's absolute pacificism was also annoying. The character as intended isnt a bad character rather the situations made her look bad if that makes any sense. IMO of course
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@Long:
Rebecca's problems mostly harken to the fact that oda introduced her as a badass warrior xena person and then made her a person who only blocks attacks and then robbing her of making any diference by making her fight way too strong characters / kyros fightblock her every time she wanted to do something. Oda mishandled her due to his bad handling of women fighters in general. The riku's absolute pacificism was also annoying. The character as intended isnt a bad character rather the situations made her look bad if that makes any sense. IMO of course
It actually kind of makes me wish that the character of Rebecca was deleted because she was just pointless and worthless. Not to mention the fact I thought Kyros and Viola were more interesting. I think it would have been better if Kyros and Viola were made brother and sister, instead of in laws. It would also mean deleting Scarlett, but I really thought she was just another throwaway dead mother character. I think if Kyros and Viola were brother and sister it could have still been the fact that the latter would have forgotten about him due to Sugar's powers. And he could have kept an eye out for his sister in the shadows while she was forced to work for Doflamingo. Also they should redo the character of King Riku from being wishy washy to being a more active character who helps try to fight Doflamingo from the shadows along with his son who he's forgotten because of the curse.
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@Long:
Rebecca's problems mostly harken to the fact that oda introduced her as a badass warrior xena person and then made her a person who only blocks attacks and then robbing her of making any diference by making her fight way too strong characters / kyros fightblock her every time she wanted to do something. Oda mishandled her due to his bad handling of women fighters in general. The riku's absolute pacificism was also annoying. The character as intended isnt a bad character rather the situations made her look bad if that makes any sense. IMO of course
Or let me suggest much simpler; she was just a badly written character, with a typical- Oda female design, bland personality, and just overall lacking any kind of interesting quality about her.
You can go back and read the thread when Rebecca was introduced and see how people were going crazy because 1, she was a female, and 2, because she had a sword. Her character got bashed heavily due to not living up to people's standards as a strong-female-fighter despite the story in no way suggesting that she was a powerful fighter, and only had a defensive style taught by her father. I mean for fuck sake in her introduction chapter, it was revealed that Spartan was bullying Rebecca who got defeated rather easily by Luffy without any effort. Her fighting styles hints from scattered from the beginning of her introduction.
I can guarantee that the reaction to her character would have been extremely different if she was a strong ass-kicking female with the same bland personality, and crappy characterization.
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Doffy? The character who presumably wears glasses to not show his humanity and be different from humans? The character who considers his birth-right to be above "puny" humans? The character who destroyed towns as a kid when he simply fall down? The character who doesn't give a shit about anyone except his "family", Law( or rather his fruit) and Kaidou? The character who killed his own father just to go back to CD's paradise instead of staying with "humans"? And you are asking why Doffy doesn't care about the civilians of Dressrosa?
You're missing my point entirely. Of course Doffy "doesn't care" about all the people coming for his head. I don't think Croc had any affection for anyone in Alabasta, that Enel cared about the lives of skypeans etc. But they made sure to play against their opponents, to show how little they cared about them, thus creating drama and validating the characters struggle against them. There's only half the payoff to everyones grudge; the half where Doflamingo engages personally with all these characters is missing. The dvarves are not only used as SMILE producing slave labor by Doflamingo, he's also specifically captured their princess, AND his family has a history of being evil towards dwarves. You could form an entire arc around the dwarves rising against a villain like that, but ultimately, Doflamingo never directs any attention back towards he dwarves. And -this here is crucial to my point- it's not a dramatic point made in the manga that he doesn't acknowledge his opponents. If that was the case, there'd be a scene of everyone confronting Doffy with their grievances, and him pulling an M Bison "Yeah, I don't give a shit about any of you guys lol". That would be a payoff! But it just doesn't exist. Doflamingo instead feels completely detached from most of the happenings of the arc, not in an aloof way, but in an "it feels like he's not been properly integrated in terms of writing" kind of way.
I mean, Doflamingo were entangled in sooooooo much stuff that even his and Bellamys domestic-abuse relationship never gets any real resolution. Even the fallout from Law accomplishing his lifelong dream of stopping Doffy is an decidedly half-baked "Uh, I guess back to fighting Kaidou?" affair. Yes theres chapter 798, but overall theres not a real sense that a Straw Hat level character, whos been second to only Luffy in terms of spotlight for 3 years, has just had a life-altering moment.
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oda told why he became evil in sbs
Yeah, and that was nice, but that's definitely not the same thing as getting flashbacks and developed background that's shown in the story.
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@Daz:
You're missing my point entirely. Of course Doffy "doesn't care" about all the people coming for his head. I don't think Croc had any affection for anyone in Alabasta, that Enel cared about the lives of skypeans etc. But they made sure to play against their opponents, to show how little they cared about them, thus creating drama and validating the characters struggle against him. The'res only half the payoff to everyones grudge; the half where Doflamingo engages personally with all these characters is missing. The dvarves are not only used as SMILE producing slave labor by Doflamingo, he's also specifically captured their princess, AND his family has a history of being evil towards dwarves. You could form an entire arc around the dwarves rising against a villain like that, but ultimately, Doflamingo never directs any attention back towards he dwarves. And -this here is crucial to my point- it's not a dramatic point made in the manga that he doesn't acknowledge his opponents. If that was the case, there'd be a scene of everyone confronting Doffy with their grievances, and him pulling an M Bison "Yeah, I don't give a shit about any of you guys lol". That would be a payoff! But it just doesn't exist. Doflamingo instead feels completely detached from most of the happenings of the arc, not in an aloof way, but in an "it feels like he's not been properly integrated in terms of writing" kind of way.
I mean, Doflamingo were entangled in sooooooo much stuff that even his and Bellamys domestic-abuse relationship never gets any realresolution. Even the fallout from Law accomplishing his lifelong dream of stopping Doffy is an decidedly half-baked "Uh, I guess back to fighting Kaidou?" affair. Yes theres chapter 798, but overall theres not a real sense that a Straw Hat level character, whos been second to only Luffy in terms of spotlight for 3 years, has just had a life-altering moment.
So a character that doesn't acknowledge people has to acknowledge people to show that he doesn't acknowledge the people to pay off…....... Maybe i am thinking more in the line of character consistency here but i don't really see how that make senses. I mean what would do even do? Provide closure? If so then for who? The audience? Since the characters are already getting closure. Will it somehow make the character better for you? Emotional? Somehow make you like Dressrosa citizens? Make the arc better for you?
With the way you are talking about this, it sounds like you consider this to be rather important so i am trying to understand why that is important? To me it sounds like asking for a closure that makes no real impact on anything and just seems insignificant.
Also correct me if i am wrong but that really didn't happen with Crocodile or Enel or maybe i forget since i never thought this was somehow significant.
Robin also got a similar level of reaction. Law got a reaction that was perfectly in-line with his personality shown in Punk Hazard, and Dressrosa.
I mean i can understand your point about Bellamy, even though i don't approach any arc with the mentality of everything having some kind of resolution. But the whole Doffy needing to say that he doesn't care about the the people of Dressrosa, especially when he has done that in moments throughout the arc with the activation of birdcage and speech being the prime example, is..... pretty damn insignificant.
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He is good at it. His avatar is well chosen I would say.
Then you can explain his point to me, even though you are already struggling with your point.
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So a character that doesn't acknowledge people has to acknowledge people to show that he doesn't acknowledge the people to pay off…....... Maybe i am thinking more in the line of character consistency here but i don't really see how that make senses. I mean what would do even do? Provide closure? If so then for who? The audience? Since the characters are already getting closure. Will it somehow make the character better for you? Emotional? Somehow make you like Dressrosa citizens? Make the arc better for you?
I have trouble articulating it beyond: because good writing? Yes, things should be definetely done for the benefit of us, the audience, we are the ones for which this product is being made, and thus what matters is what WE get to experience, and how well presented it is. I mean, you could offscreen the climax to any of the Dressrosan fights and then show us who won later, you could omit entire parts of the manga and then in text explain to us that "yeah, Ace eventually caught up to BB and then he lost". You can even setup Daltons feelings on Wapol, then never have them interact, and we can then assume on our own that Dalton is probably happy that Wapol got taken care of we guess. All that would technically be "resolution for the characters" - but it would be pretty damn terrible.
With the way you are talking about this, it sounds like you consider this to be rather important so i am trying to understand why that is important? To me it sounds like asking for a closure that makes no real impact on anything and just seems insignificant.
Also correct me if i am wrong but that really didn't happen with Crocodile or Enel or maybe i forget since i never thought this was somehow significant.
Its not as much "closure" as a commitment from the villains to reflect the struggle of their opponents.
Totos struggle is made sadder when Croc smirks about tormenting him. We feel more sympathetic towards Gan Fall and Wiper when they oppose Enel, and he just laughs at them Vivis struggle is made so much more potent when Crocodile takes time out of his schedule to do something like this: http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/198/13
You can say Doflamingo showed this type of interaction with Law, and it'd be fair I guess- I'd just have liked to see more of it with his other opponents, the Royals in particular.
Robin also got a similar level of reaction. Law got a reaction that was perfectly in-line with his personality shown in Punk Hazard, and Dressrosa.
Uh, Robin hasn't accomplished her dream yet? Also: chapter 398? This was to Law what finding All Blue would've been to Sanji. If theres any moment to break with your stone-faced character and show some emotion, this was it. Even Zoro used to be able to do that. Theres not even a content smile that the whole ordeal is over, its just back to moar masterplans.
I mean i can understand your point about Bellamy, even though i don't approach any arc with the mentality of everything having some kind of resolution. But the whole Doffy needing to say that he doesn't care about the the people of Dressrosa, especially when he has done that in moments throughout the arc with the activation of birdcage and speech being the prime example, is….. pretty damn insignificant.
I'm not talking about the nameless Dressrosan citizens. I'm talking of allllllll the different plot-threads connecting Doflamingo to the shit-ton of characters in the arc.
Even within a group like “the Dressrosa royalty”, you can subdivide it into unique grievances towards Doffy; Riku took the brunt of the framing when Doffy took over and was forced to live in hiding. Kyros is the only one who really cares about avenging Scarlet and became forgotten, Viola was forced to serve Doffy and Rebelled, Rebecca was mocked for years in the Coliseum and just wanted to beat Doffy so she could live with Soldier. Its like if Croc had devised separate personal tragedies/beefs for Cobra, Chaka, Pell and Vivi respectively, and had some sort of personal claim to Alabasta on top of everything else.
As mentioned with the dwarves, Doffy enslaved them for smile production AND he's holding the princess hostage AND theres an ancestral grudge
Fujitora is more than “a Marine That Happened To Be on the island” because of his specific stance on the Warlord system, which affects his relationship with Doflamingo.
Several tournament attendees are on a mission to investigate Doflamingos warmongering, which is destabilizing the region. Others are just mad at him for making them be toys for half an hour.
The revolution is also there because of Doflamingos secret warmongering, but also to get some “Vine Steel” and a “list”.
Doflamingos child-trafficking and Kaidou connections swept up the samurai, with Kanjurou as a captive, and having Momonosuke - a specific target for Doflamingo- be "traumatized" by Doffys eeeeeeevilness.
Also, though they're not present on the island a major deal is made of Doflamingos hatred of the world nobility. This bad blood extends to his own father and brother, whom he killed for different reasons.
Also, Doflamingo has an abusive relationship with Bellamy.
Also, Law has a 13 year old vendetta against him.
Also, appearantly Doflamingo took a specific interest in Luffy, and has been investigating him for years.
And finally yeah, he inflected the toy-curse upon the population, which was a cornerstone of the operation SOP, though it turned out to matter very little. Oh, and Doffy was corrupting the soul of Dressrosa or something.
Now I'm not saying that Doflamingo needed to have a personal moment with each and all of the Coliseum characters, but this all goes back to my original point that Dressrosa simply had too much stuff; And with the exhaustive list above, Doflamingo is a perfect case study of that; Dressrosa is a cluttered and messy arc, and Doflamingo is a cluttered villain. Its no wonder he never got a unified goal; stuff like "Eternal life!" "Destroy world!" "Secret of Marijois!" and "subordinates are suggesting pirate king?" was thrown around on top of the basic "maintain status quo of shipping Smiles to Kaidou", but it never congealed into anything specific.
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Words of truth here, well put.
@Daz:
Its no wonder he never got a unified goal; stuff like "Eternal life!" "Destroy world!" "Secret of Marijois!" and "subordinates are suggesting pirate king?" was thrown around on top of the basic "maintain status quo of shipping Smiles to Kaidou", but it never congealed into anything specific.
And don't forget that "New age!" stuff too. As you said, Doflamingo was a cluttered villain and so was Dressrosa as an arc. In the end, the mountain gave birth to a mouse.
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I loved Doflamingo as a villain, he's easily one of my favorite villains of all time. Was he a little all over the place with his shenanigans? Maybe? Isn't that his thing though? The puppet master with his fingers in all the pies? I was satisfied with his resolution versus the characters, he was a cruel monster that ruined many lives and never gave any significance to them, we didn't need him to badmouth each character he screwed over, it was never personal to him and we got all the catharsis we needed with the characters when Luffy beat him and we had a chapter of everyone celebrating and crying in relief.
If I had one complaint, while I enjoyed his fight against Luffy, I wish it wasn't as broken up and maybe one more chapter of Doffy really going all out like he did at the end? And Luffy breaking through the spider web/holy thread combo could have been made mroe clear but the double spread of Luffy splitting the earth with Doffy was jaw dropping.
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By taking the rain away from the areas and blaming it on the king? I am really curious to know how Crocodile was better when he also had hax powers to achieve what he wanted to.
The thing is, his powers don't allow him to control rain clouds. He achieved that through the use of his Dance Powder ships. He did generate sandstorms to ravage towns like Yuba but he seemed to be doing that just to torment people, since he had already been successfully destroying the rebels' trust in the royal family.
Mr. 2 was used to further aggravate the rebels and incite them to war. Again, something that was already just waiting to happen. All he did was speed things up.
Crocodile has shown himself to be completely in control of the situation, even after the Strawhats arrived. His downfall was simply due to not having full knowledge on their numbers, and due to underestimating Luffy.To compare,
Doffy managed to usurp Dressrosa by framing the king as well, but rather than cultivating distrust over several years like Crocodile did, he used Parasaito to conveniently make King Riku seem evil.
His continued success levied on the ability to eliminate dissenters and have people forget about them. He could've done this any number of ways, but having Sugar in his crew provided an extremely convenient method. Them turning into toys was incidental.
In order to trick Law, he had to manipulate the news, something he could only do because he was a former Celestial Dragon. Much of his success can be attributed to him having the right powers or having the right background, rather than patiently planning and working for it.For a more direct comparison, Doffy put the real Flame Flame Fruit in the colosseum. Crocodile threw a fake key into his office chamber.
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@Daz:
Now I'm not saying that Doflamingo needed to have a personal moment with each and all of the Coliseum characters, but this all goes back to my original point that Dressrosa simply had too much stuff; And with the exhaustive list above, Doflamingo is a perfect case study of that; Dressrosa is a cluttered and messy arc, and Doflamingo is a cluttered villain. Its no wonder he never got a unified goal; stuff like "Eternal life!" "Destroy world!" "Secret of Marijois!" and "subordinates are suggesting pirate king?" was thrown around on top of the basic "maintain status quo of shipping Smiles to Kaidou", but it never congealed into anything specific.
For all his master planning, Doffy was just a mad dog who wanted to live a lavish life style while shitting on everyone beneath him. But to put it in a flow chart, he wanted "Eternal Life" to be able to properly use the "Secret of Marijois" to "Destroy the World" but then he got kinda lazy and ended up stagnating despite his crew's wishes for him to "Be Pirate King".
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I really can't think of a flaw with the G8 arc, If One Piece had a couple of filler arcs like that between canon ones I' be a happy man. I mean all the crew members got something cool to do, the setting was unique, the side characters memorable and the story original. The crew interactions were priceless and Johnathan was a really cool character that I kinda wish was canon. Call me crazy but yeah I put it in the top tier, it's just so refreshing.