Something must be really off if I'm more excited about the cover story than about the chapter itself.
Chapter 751: "Sabo vs Admiral Fujitora"
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I would love it if the cover story is Jinbe rescuing the remaining SH's from Big Mom some way or another…
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i guess Jinbe is heading back to Fishman island after delivering Caribou so probably either something will happen on the way there or something will come up in FI , very interesting
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i guess Jinbe is heading back to Fishman island after delivering Caribou so probably either something will happen on the way there or something will come up in FI , very interesting
Why Fishman Island? He said he had an unresolved matter with BM, regarding Sun Pirates, most likely. His "friends" can only be SP or SH.
Don't think he had any time to resolve the matter already.
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Why Fishman Island? He said he had an unresolved matter with BM, regarding Sun Pirates, most likely. His "friends" can only be SP or SH.
Don't think he had any time to resolve the matter already.
i think the key word here is "back" he can't be heading to the SH because of the reason you said he still has unfinished business with big mom and he can't be heading to big mom i suppose cos she's neither a friend nor the word back would apply to her case , so the only place left is FI
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i think the key word here is "back" he can't be heading to the SH because of the reason you said he still has unfinished business with big mom and he can't be heading to big mom i suppose cos she's neither a friend nor the word back would apply to her case , so the only place left is FI
He's the captain of the Sun Pirates. If he was on his way to them, he would be coming "back" for his friends. He left them with BM alliance when he went to FI.
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He's the captain of the Sun Pirates. If he was on his way to them, he would be coming "back" for his friends. He left them with BM alliance when he went to FI.
mhmm i think i need to reread Jinbe's speech in FI cos i forgot about that part , but if that's the case then things are gonna be even more interesting
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waiting to see sabo falling out his teeth while fighting with fuji.
yosh spoiler is coming
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I really hope Sanji's fight doesn't get off-paneled. It's been 21 chapters already.
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@God:
I really hope Sanji's fight doesn't get off-paneled.
Do not worry! It will be cover-storied !
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Do not worry! It will be cover-storied !
That's better, I guess. Either this is because the series isn't new and mysterious to me or is this arc kind of dragging its feet?
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@God:
That's better, I guess. Either this is because the series isn't new and mysterious to me or is this arc kind of dragging its feet?
The issue with this arc is there's a lot of plot threads happening and we're only being given snippets of each one in each chapter so as to keep them all moving in tandem. Combine getting snippets with having to wait for weekly release = a really slow feeling.
Oda could make the chapters more focused to resolve each plot thread specifically, but then we'd lose the notion of how crazy everything is happening at once, and we'd probably get 10 chapters of one plot thread, and mildly forget what was happening everywhere else.
I think the current method is best, but agree, it does make weekly releases feel slow. But then… weekly releases reading has always felt kind of slow.
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Had a crazy week and so haven't been able to read it until now. This chapter was just sort of okay. Nothing special to it aside from seeing one really cool ability from Sabo and yet again…more set up.
That's it. I'm renaming this arc "The setups with little payoff and off screen fights arc". Cuz that's all this arc has been for the most part. Hell, Oda has acted like he has ADD this whole arc with bow often he keeps switching from onething to the next. It's disorienting and starting to kill my hype.
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Which is exactly why he targets one side, the one that you say is the weaker one.
He is not playing them against each other, he is explicitly going after Luffy and Law and ignoring Doflamingo. What you are saying is not represented by his action in the recent chapters.
Not really. If he wanted he would have gone after Luffy from the start. To me it seems clear that he wants both sides to soften each other until we can safely take them out
@Daz:
When is the Dressrosan corpse pile high enough that this is sure to "lead to something good"? And why Isn't it already?
Again. Fujitora is not all powerful. There is nothing he can do about the many many collateral civilaisn getting killed. What he can do is put him himself in a position where he can survive taking out all the criminals on the island.(or that + helps him with his agenda to take out the warlords)
Saturnchild, I made a sizeable post on the previous page, I'm curious to hear your opinion on it. It included a list of instances where Fujitora was presented as morally sound.
This is action is the most morally sound one
How many people would die if Fujitora targeted Doflamingo immediately following him being exposed, and activating the birdcage, compared to after the Stars game is over? I'm gonna go with "less".
Many more I imagine. You seem to assume that Fujitora can easily take out Dofla. Even if Fujitora has the edge when it comes to power this doesn't mean much. Dofla is much more manuevarble and he can either escape or led Fujitora on a chase/fight throughout the whole city causing even more destruction.
Doflamingo restrained Jozus movement for a little while. That was it. Theres a pretty big gap from that, to controlling someone like commander Atomos.
Jozu was a helpless puppet who could do nothing. And he had the kind of raw physical strength that is quite close to an admiral and haki
.but if Fujitora goes through the gauntlet of fighting ALL the gladiators, Sabo, and the Law -Luffy alliance…then he most definetely will be fit for fight against Doflamingo afterwards? Compared to, say, Fujitora temporarily joining forces with the veritable army of people targeting Doflamingo, taking him down with increased efficiency, then turning on your allies afterwards if you are so inclined?
You mean the gladiators which are already headed towards Dofla? The only one Fujitora needs to fight is Sabo because of his side. Everything else is perfect both for maximum effiicency in taking out criminals and in undermining the warlord system
Fujitora spending time and resources trying to defeat people sharing his own endgoal (defeat Doflamingo) is pretty much the least sound strategy possible.
That's not his endgoal. His end goal is to eliminate the warlord system entirely. His immediate goal is to take out all the criminals on the island
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Not really. If he wanted he would have gone after Luffy from the start. To me it seems clear that he wants both sides to soften each other until we can safely take them out
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HE DID! HE IS THE FIRST CHARACTER TO STOP LUFFY IS HIS TRACKS AFTER BIRDCAGE WENT UP!
Are you insane?
This is action is the most morally sound one
Well, I just answered my own question, haven't I?
Also, it's not. There exists no system among human ethics that would consider that action morally sound and good.
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Yonko commanders move about freely! just look at how Ace and Burg move around wherever they need to be without a worry in the world, BIGMAM commanders are the best example(though they're on orders).
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Oh yeah I forgot about Momotaro and the legends. Still, it's just a codename. There's nothing particularly Tiger like about Fujitora. It's not like Sakazuki was window shopping and picked them based on color cause he really likes purple and green.
Also Doffy called Fujitora and Ryokugyu "monsters in battle" or something like that earlier.
I think I have to disagree, he's very Tiger-like
http://serpenrosa.tumblr.com/post/68969236154/hm-its-the-same-well-made-oda-dono
Don't know how to link the pics
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Again. Fujitora is not all powerful. There is nothing he can do about the many many collateral civilaisn getting killed.
Except stopping the guys murdering them?
@Saturnchild:What he can do is put him himself in a position where he can survive taking out all the criminals on the island.
Choosing to take on a gauntlet of literally every fighter on the island is the most sound survival strategy?
This is action is the most morally sound one
What? In what way? Fujitora is actively refusing to stop the guy perpretating mass murder. Not only that, he's actively protecting the mass murderer from his enemies, all because of some alleged "agenda". You're basing your argument around Fujitora being willing to let innocent people die for his cause, which is highly questionable, morally speaking.
But that was beside the point, actually. The point of the scenes listed was to show that Fujitora had been painted as a clear-cut "good guy", the kind who values civilian lives very dearly.Many more I imagine. You seem to assume that Fujitora can easily take out Dofla. Even if Fujitora has the edge when it comes to power this doesn't mean much. Dofla is much more manuevarble and he can either escape or led Fujitora on a chase/fight throughout the whole city causing even more destruction.
A despot decides to enact genocide in his country, murdering all his citizens down to the last child. Like, he will literally kill everyone. Can't try and stop him though! People might get caught in the crossfire! What the what?
Though I guess one way you can minimize collateral damage from the fight is by waiting until everyone is already dead before you target Doflamingo. Because Doflamingo must eventually be targeted right? Otherwise how is the situation resolved? So if Doflamingo has to be taken down in any case, why wait? Why not target him immediately to cut his killing spree short?Jozu was a helpless puppet who could do nothing. And he had the kind of raw physical strength that is quite close to an admiral and haki
Jozu had his movement restrained for a few seconds. That is all that happened, that is the extent to which you can base a Doflamingo strength feat on that scene. Quit pretending Doflamingo used a helpless Jozu to mow down pirates for hours on end.
You mean the gladiators which are already headed towards Dofla? The only one Fujitora needs to fight is Sabo because of his side. Everything else is perfect both for maximum effiicency in taking out criminals and in undermining the warlord system
But Fujitora did not intend for the gladiators to storm the castle!? You're barely making any sense here. The manga clearly shows Fujitora hunting Stars, and trying to prevent Luffy and his allies from reaching Doflamingo. If Fujitora hadn't been interrupted by Pica and then Sabo, all he'd have been doing until now would've been taking down Doflamingos enemies. Preventing them from defeating Doflamingo and "undermining the Warlord system" or whatever it is you're getting at. Canon is not on your side here.
That's not his endgoal. His end goal is to eliminate the warlord system entirely. His immediate goal is to take out all the criminals on the island
a) The criminals include Doflamingo. Taking him down in cooperation with his other enemies would be efficient, and resolve the genocide quickly.
b) Doflamingo has already damaged the Warlord systems credibility to an insane degree, why does he need to murder everyone on Dressrosa? And don't try the "Pirates need to beat him to show how weak the Warlords are!" excuse again, we've just gone over how Fujitora is trying to prevent people from attacking Dofla.And finally, what you keep neglecting is,
C) Fujitora "making a point" about warlords causing chaos is moot if he himself allows the Warlords to cause chaos! If you order a cop to observe an area, and he proceeds to ignore blatant robberies and murders right in front of him, he is not "succesfully undermining" the criminals, and he's not going to inspire societal reforms. -
@Daz:
Except stopping the guys murdering them?
Choosing to take on a gauntlet of literally every fighter on the island is the most sound survival strategy?But that was beside the point, actually. The point of the scenes listed was to show that Fujitora had been painted as a clear-cut "good guy", the kind who values civilian lives very dearly.
A despot decides to enact genocide in his country, murdering all his citizens down to the last child. Like, he will literally kill everyone. Can't try and stop him though! People might get caught in the crossfire! What the what?
Though I guess one way you can minimize collateral damage from the fight is by waiting until everyone is already dead before you target Doflamingo. Because Doflamingo must eventually be targeted right? Otherwise how is the situation resolved? So if Doflamingo has to be taken down in any case, why wait? Why not target him immediately to cut his killing spree short?And finally, what you keep neglecting is,
C) Fujitora "making a point" about warlords causing chaos is moot if he himself allows the Warlords to cause chaos! If you order a cop to observe an area, and he proceeds to ignore blatant robberies and murders right in front of him, he is not "succesfully undermining" the criminals, and he's not going to inspire societal reforms.I'm mainly playing Devil's Advocate here.
Here's how I see things from Fujitora's perspective at the point when the Birdcage is established.
[ Hmmm… Doflamingo is getting desperate, he's willing to endanger civilians and force them to do his dirty work.
Should I go get him? Or should I deal with all these pirates who will probably not care about collateral damage? ]Now Fujitora had to make a quick decision, and I believe he made his decision based on the conversation he just had with Doflamingo.
I know there shouldn't be any honor when dealing with pirates, but perhaps Fujitora's decided to honor this conversation.
He;s in a lose - lose situation, so he picked what he thought was the easier of the two choices IMO. Go after a guy that's just locked himself up in a fortress, or capture the ring leaders who made the madman create the prison to begin with. He attempts to deal with the pirates first. But, as soon as he finds Luffy and co, it's interrupted by Pica, and then interrupted by Sabo. So he never really has a chance to do anything as I see it.As for the Birdcage and Parasite, I expect it to be as effect as Enel's lightning, and as Ceasar's Death Gas, so 0 casualties.
So, I don't really see it as Fujitora doing this 180 flip on preventing the civilians from harm as much as he made a quick decision, and never even had a chance to act on it.
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I think I have to disagree, he's very Tiger-like
http://serpenrosa.tumblr.com/post/68969236154/hm-its-the-same-well-made-oda-dono
I wonder, does that mean that Fujitora has a catnip weakness?
(Don't tell Sabo… ) -
good chapter. Very good chapter