Official Dressrosa Thread

[FrozenGlasses]

@King:

Well, you have to take in account that Law's ability is dependent on his stamina.

Sincere question : is that info canon enough? If yes, where does Oda/anyone else clearly stated that Law's ability is really stamina dependent?

And i think the power of every type of attack from every character will of course be stamina-dependent?

If thats a yes, well then Law is not so special in stamina topic then?

I'm in the same train as DarkRitual admittedly, s/he just write my opinion on this Sanji-turned-fodder trend better than what i was going to write haha

[Skadi]

when they had to cross the iron bridge law mentioned he can´t do anything because he has to save stamina for later. and i think it was mentioned a couple times later

[King Cannon]

@DARK_RITUAL:

well, you also have to take in account that Sanji didn't know anything about Doflamingo and unlike Law who was fighting to kill Doflamingo Sanji wasn't, Sanji only attacked DOFLA just to tell him to pissoff from his crewmates.

Well, then you have to take in account that Doula didn't know about Sanji's abilities either. So, in terms of ability knowledge, they were even.

Similarly, Doula and Law knew about each other's abilities, so they were also even.

@DARK_RITUAL:

Same with Law.
And another credit to Dofla seeing Sanji as a big threat, Sanji is the first character in one piece Doflamingo used a two named attacks on since he was introduced.

What? What does named attacks have anything to do with this?

Goshikito is Doula's most basic attack, which he does all the time, even before confronting Sanji. Overheat is slightly more complex.

But whether they're named or not doesn't really mean anything.

@DARK_RITUAL:

Obviously Oda had to give Law that one or Law would look like a joke. Law is a Shichibukai, he has known DOFLA for years and if someone like couldn't even give DOFLA a scratch then the joke is on.

He also made Law extremely injured in order to handicap him. You really think Violet injured Sanji to the same extent as Fuji and Doula did to Law?

Also, you mentioned Sanji using Hell's Memories would've been a different story. Well, how do you know that? What guarantee do you have that it would have worked? If we're going with what-ifs, then I'm going to say that if Law had used Shambles on Doula with the water, he could've drowned him. But I'm not going with what-ifs, I'm going with what's shown in the story.

And you said I'm making excuses. What you said above isn't also an excuse? Aren't you excusing Sanji's poor portrayal in that fight? I'm not saying he's fodder, but saying he did well in that fight, and using a handicapped Law as a measuring stick is a bad argument.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@FrozenGlasses:

Sincere question : is that info canon enough? If yes, where does Oda/anyone else clearly stated that Law's ability is really stamina dependent?

And i think the power of every type of attack from every character will of course be stamina-dependent?

If thats a yes, well then Law is not so special in stamina topic then?

I'm in the same train as DarkRitual admittedly, s/he just write my opinion on this Sanji-turned-fodder trend better than what i was going to write haha

He mentioned it twice (709 and 758).

[FrozenGlasses]

I see, well, i'll take it that Law's attacks available choices is all heavy-stamina draining-attack then, compared to other characters who seems not worried about their stamina bar.

Because really, doesn't all type of attack will use stamina?

Taking Luffy for example, i dont think he can spam Red Hawk non stop? Or he can?

I dont know but this 'stamina' kinda raise my eyebrow because IIRC no other character use this trait. Or its the same as fatique level?

Forgive me if my question is derailing or not important, im just..confused

[Skadi]

Basically he can´t use his abilities for a long amount of time. This only applies for other characters when it comes to powerful attacks (they can´t repeat them for some period of time). But he won´t even be able to do "room" after his time runs over.

Which is good to know because his powers were too broken, acknowledged even in universe

[Magi]

@FrozenGlasses:

I see, well, i'll take it that Law's attacks available choices is all heavy-stamina draining-attack then, compared to other characters who seems not worried about their stamina bar.

Because really, doesn't all type of attack will use stamina?

Taking Luffy for example, i dont think he can spam Red Hawk non stop? Or he can?

I dont know but this 'stamina' kinda raise my eyebrow because IIRC no other character use this trait. Or its the same as fatique level?

Forgive me if my question is derailing or not important, im just..confused

All devil fruits have different limitations.

Law's limitation is stamina based.

[desa]

@FrozenGlasses:

I see, well, i'll take it that Law's attacks available choices is all heavy-stamina draining-attack then, compared to other characters who seems not worried about their stamina bar.

Because really, doesn't all type of attack will use stamina?

Taking Luffy for example, i dont think he can spam Red Hawk non stop? Or he can?

I dont know but this 'stamina' kinda raise my eyebrow because IIRC no other character use this trait. Or its the same as fatique level?

Forgive me if my question is derailing or not important, im just..confused

I also raised an eyebrow, but since his power is fairly magical to me I'm ok with him having to watch his mana( or hax-juice)

[Darth]

@Magi:

All devil fruits have different limitations.

Law's limitation is stamina based.

Is it a limit, though? Anime filler not-withstanding, we haven't really saw him being affected by said weakness. It's implied, yes, but thus far doesn't seem to be affecting anything.

And let's be honest, it seems to be pretty inconsequential considering what his powers are.

[Magi]

@Darth:

Is it a limit, though? Anime filler not-withstanding, we haven't really saw him being affected by said weakness. It's implied, yes, but thus far doesn't seem to be affecting anything.

And let's be honest, it seems to be pretty inconsequential considering what his powers are.

It was blatantly obvious that he was tired when he fought Doflamingo in 718

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/718/14

and 729.

I don't see why he would be wasted at this very moment considering he himself stated that he regained his stamina and he hasn't used any large scale attacks.

The weakness is there, but it's not going to be shoved down our throats constantly. He gradually weakens, but it's not going to be glaringly obvious to a point where he's choking on air every time he opens a room.

[Darth]

@Magi:

It was blatantly obvious that he was tired when he fought Doflamingo in 718

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/718/14

and 729.

I don't see why he would be wasted at this very moment considering he himself stated that he regained his stamina and he hasn't used any large scale attacks.

The weakness is there, but it's not going to be shoved down our throats constantly. He gradually weakens, but it's not going to be glaringly obvious to a point where he's choking on air every time he opens a room.

How is that different from ordinary exhaustion though? One Piece is one of the few series that saw main characters, and others, being pushed to the limit, and beyond.

For crying out loud, the guy just fought an Admiral and Shichibukai at the same time. Would you expect other characters to not be tired just because they don't have his fruit?

[DARK_RITUAL]

@King:

Well, then you have to take in account that Doula didn't know about Sanji's abilities either. So, in terms of ability knowledge, they were even.

No they are not even. DOFLA has hax ability Sanji doesn't. So no way is it even.

Similarly, Doula and Law knew about each other's abilities, so they were also even.

There is no way is this the same as Sanji situation.

What? What does named attacks have anything to do with this?

Everyone knows when a strong character uses a named attack that s/he is serious and bringing out his best.

Goshikito is Doula's most basic attack, which he does all the time, even before confronting Sanji. Overheat is slightly more complex.

I don't what "Goshikito" means but if it's "five colored strings" then DOFLA has never used it before until he did it on Sanji. Because we see DOFLA slash people with his strings doesn't mean it's the same as his five-colored-strings. Luffy's normal punch is not the same as his "jet-pistol" the one with name is a stronger version.

But whether they're named or not doesn't really mean anything.

yes it does. It means they are using there strongest attacks.

He also made Law extremely injured in order to handicap him. You really think Violet injured Sanji to the same extent as Fuji and Doula did to Law?

please show me a page where Law was injured prior to fighting DOFLA? Sanji was beaten by Violet, he was bloodied, he took a heel to the face.

Also, you mentioned Sanji using Hell's Memories would've been a different story. Well, how do you know that? What guarantee do you have that it would have worked? If we're going with what-ifs, then I'm going to say that if Law had used Shambles on Doula with the water, he could've drowned him. But I'm not going with what-ifs, I'm going with what's shown in the story.

me mentioning Sanji using "hell memories" is not me saying he would've done better but rather if Sanji had used "hell memories" and still couldn't make DOFLA bleed then that would've been a different story because you were comparing One of LUFFYS strongest move "red-hawk" with Sanji fodder attack.

And you said I'm making excuses. What you said above isn't also an excuse? Aren't you excusing Sanji's poor portrayal in that fight? I'm not saying he's fodder, but saying he did well in that fight, and using a handicapped Law as a measuring stick is a bad argument.

what I said above wasn't an excuse is just you misunderstanding. Law wasn't handicapped and if you claim he is then post a page that proves that? Or explain how handicapped he is.
Sanji is the one that's actually handicapped
-No knowledge of Dofla hax ability, if it was like Vergo it will be a different story since he doesn't have a hax ability.
-fighting him in the air, Sanji is limited at kicking air to fly while at the same time using that leg to attack.

• he was bloodied up by Violet.

[King Cannon]

@DARK_RITUAL:

please show me a page where Law was injured prior to fighting DOFLA? Sanji was beaten by Violet, he was bloodied, he took a heel to the face.

You're kidding right? Law has been in this state since chapter 717. You're just being ignorant now.

Sanji took a heel to the face? Big deal. Law had to defend against meteors and killer strings at the same time.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@DARK_RITUAL:

I don't what "Goshikito" means but if it's "five colored strings" then DOFLA has never used it before until he did it on Sanji. Because we see DOFLA slash people with his strings doesn't mean it's the same as his five-colored-strings. Luffy's normal punch is not the same as his "jet-pistol" the one with name is a stronger version.

"Goshikito" is the move where he creates five string from his fingers, which is actually his standard move.

It's like Gomu Gomu no Pistol. A named move, but also very basic.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@DARK_RITUAL:

No they are not even. DOFLA has hax ability Sanji doesn't. So no way is it even.

There is no way is this the same as Sanji situation.

So what if it's hax? See, this is an excuse. Pica also has a pretty hax fruit, but Zoro figured it out pretty quickly.

But even Sanji in Diable Jambe mode couldn't do anything against Doula besides delaying him a bit. This is just what the manga shows.

[desa]

@Darth:

Is it a limit, though? Anime filler not-withstanding, we haven't really saw him being affected by said weakness. It's implied, yes, but thus far doesn't seem to be affecting anything.

And let's be honest, it seems to be pretty inconsequential considering what his powers are.

Maybe the limited range of his last room is due to that.

[FrozenGlasses]

I just wanna add something :

Sanji, who while rushing because he need to protect nami and co. , managed to shift Dofla's attention to him, although yes, in the end he cant land a single hit, or scratch.

Law, who is a sichibukai, duelling dofla without the need to protect anyone, equipped with OP grade df, sent flying and dofla only need a band aid in the end.

Luffy, the future pirate king, fight dofla on 2 vs 2.5 team (counting bellamy), so far only managed to land red hawk because of sasuke final eye power used by mr.Law. And that attack only piss dofla more.

So eh, the way i see it, Sanji is fine and dandy there.

Oh, there is no such a thing as 'previous injury' in OP***, take that shandian who use reject dial twice for example.
Or Usopp fight with mr.4 IIRC? He has been bashed and curbstomped non stop until he win. Also with Perona fight.
Or poor sanji who has been curbstomped by kalifa only to get revived by being bashed with bath tub and then go defeat his long lost brother.

*** –> not counting some really major, soul rendering injuries such as Zoro's diagonal slash from Mihawk and that bubble pop game he play with Kuma at Thriller Bark.

[King Cannon]

@FrozenGlasses:

I just wanna add something :

Sanji, who while rushing because he need to protect nami and co. , managed to shift Dofla's attention to him, although yes, in the end he cant land a single hit, or scratch.

Law, who is a sichibukai, duelling dofla without the need to protect anyone, equipped with OP grade df, sent flying and dofla only need a band aid in the end.

Luffy, the future pirate king, fight dofla on 2 vs 2.5 team (counting bellamy), so far only managed to land red hawk because of sasuke final eye power used by mr.Law. And that attack only piss dofla more.

So eh, the way i see it, Sanji is fine and dandy there.

Oh, there is no such a thing as 'previous injury' in OP***, take that shandian who use reject dial twice for example.
Or Usopp fight with mr.4 IIRC? He has been bashed and curbstomped non stop until he win. Also with Perona fight.
Or poor sanji who has been curbstomped by kalifa only to get revived by being bashed with bath tub and then go defeat his long lost brother.

*** –> not counting some really major, soul rendering injuries such as Zoro's diagonal slash from Mihawk and that bubble pop game he play with Kuma at Thriller Bark.

But Law wasn't 100% when he fought Doula. This is pointed out by Doula himself, who says that he didn't think Law could still use his ability.

Heck, Law himself refused to fight the Fighting Fish at the bridge because he needed to conserve energy.

[Magi]

@Darth:

How is that different from ordinary exhaustion though?

Exhaustion is exhaustion.
Stamina is just the ability to last for a decent amount of time when doing an activity.
We're talking about a series where characters can fight for 5-10 days nonstop and fight armies barehanded without breaking a sweat.
Law has enough stamina to keep up with his ability. It's not like it's constantly on.

For crying out loud, the guy just fought an Admiral and Shichibukai at the same time.

He didn't fight them, he ran from them and countered their attacks. What did he use to counter their attacks? His devil fruit. We saw dozens of sliced meteors scattered around the vicinity.

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/723/13

Even DD didn't think Law had enough power left to maintain it to a huge degree.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@King:

But Law wasn't 100% when he fought Doula. This is pointed out by Doula himself, who says that he didn't think Law could still use his ability.

Heck, Law himself refused to fight the Fighting Fish at the bridge because he needed to conserve energy.

You keep sticking to your excuse. The point here is that Sanji didn't do bad when you consider people like Law who's also a schichibukai and LUFFY went 2 against 1 Doflamingo and they still couldn't do Shit to him.

In fact LUFFY's first encounter ended in seconds. He got owned.

! above panel is just exactly the same or like this two panels combined
LUFFYS gattling gun didn't do shit and Dofla defended it just like he defended Sanji's attack.

! Then Dofla clone uses his string on LUFFY and Dofla sends him flying
LUFFYS first encounter with Dofla is just almost exactly with Sanji and Dofla encounter and if you didn't get Oda message with that being "hey, don't think Sanji did bad against Dofla because Dofla can do pretty much the same with anyone".
But let me guess you will come up with an excuse for this one aswell?
Now let's wait and see how Law does against Dofla, Law said himself that he has regained his stamina and his fighting Dola one on one right now, let's see how that ends. But always have in mind that this is Law's 3rd fight with doflamingo.

Don't forget LUFFY is getting dominated by a clone.

[Magi]

@DARK_RITUAL:

You keep sticking to your excuse. The point here is that Sanji didn't do bad when you consider people like Law who's also a schichibukai and LUFFY went 2 against 1 Doflamingo and they still couldn't do Shit to him.

Dofla got red hawked. A weakened Law injured him prior to that as well.

LUFFY's first encounter ended in seconds. He got owned.

He got sneak attacked by a clone and punched in the face once. That's pure ownage right thur!

LUFFYS gattling gun didn't do shit and Dofla defended it just like he defended Sanji's attack.

Meaningless. Even Hody's henchman can block a G2 attack.

But always have in mind that this is Law's 3rd fight with doflamingo.

Round 1 was a 2 on 1, Round 2 was with a weakened Law, right now Law is fighting on par with DD.

Don't forget LUFFY is getting dominated by a clone.

He's tied up and bellamy is being used as a hostage.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Magi:

Dofla got red hawked. A weakened Law injured him prior to that as well.

thanks to a 2 against 1 fight and Laws hax fruit. What an achievement another warlord could only give another warlord a scratch to the face then proceeds to get owned.

He got sneak attacked by a clone and punched in the face once. That's pure ownage right thur!

nothing like a sneak attack, the clone is part of Doflamingo hax fruit, you can aswell say Sanji got sneak attacked by Dofla invisible web. Atleast we agree on something.

Meaningless. Even Hody's henchman can block a G2 attack.

Wouldn't the same be said about Sanji Diablo jambe?

Round 1 was a 2 on 1, Round 2 was with a weakened Law, right now Law is fighting on par with DD.

Round 1 was with a weakened Sanji, but people already judging him with that with no care if he gets a round 2 or 3. So if people keep judging Sanji's performance with his round 1 then I might aswell judge Law's performance with his round 1 too.

He's tied up and bellamy is being used as a hostage.

Dofla tied him with his ability, Bellamy is being controlled by Dofla ability so it all ends with -Doflamingo is still fighting LUFFY using his ability, it's not his fault that he can multitask with his ability, Dofla is not stopping LUFFY to tie his hands or use Trebol as a hostage against him.

[Ussop]

@King:

So what if it's hax? See, this is an excuse. Pica also has a pretty hax fruit, but Zoro figured it out pretty quickly.

But even Sanji in Diable Jambe mode couldn't do anything against Doula besides delaying him a bit. This is just what the manga shows.

Sanji-unknown powers vs sanji known powers? Does it make any real difference? Nope. DD known powers vs unknown powers? Yes, it make all the difference in the world, since he has 1 shot moves like parasite that turns you into a target that can't move and can only eat attacks, it's a one man game after parasite.

Pica in the same train with Doflamingo? His fruit is not as hax as Doflamingo's one, since he doesn't have hax moves like parasite. I would love to see Zoro figure out Doflamingo's powers when he is on parasite, can't move a finger and can only get damage. Not to mention Doflamingo is superior to Pica in every way.

[Magi]

@DARK_RITUAL:

thanks to a 2 against 1 fight and Laws hax fruit.

Stop saying "hax" as if it discredits anything. Your point of them not being able to do anything was completely wrong. You should also stop saying warlord as if it gives credit to anything. It's a mere title.

you can aswell say Sanji got sneak attacked by Dofla invisible web.

Sanji didn't get sneak attacked. He knew it was coming and he wasn't occupied with anything else, unlike Luffy.

Wouldn't the same be said about Sanji Diablo jambe?

Not at all.

Round 1 was with a weakened Sanji

Sanji wasn't weakened. What the hell? The fact that you think Viola weakened him tells me all I need to know lol.

Dofla is not stopping LUFFY to tie his hands or use Trebol as a hostage against him.

You're only looking at the outcome and not the reason they're in the position they're in.
Luffy and Law were either handicapped or in unfavourable conditions. Sanji had no handicaps.

[King Cannon]

@DARK_RITUAL:

thanks to a 2 against 1 fight and Laws hax fruit. What an achievement another warlord could only give another warlord a scratch to the face then proceeds to get owned.

2 vs. 1? Because Bellamy being used as a hostage is fair? Doula was hiding behind Bellamy.

And Trèbol was there too, and Law was focusing his attacks on him instead of Doula. So it wasn't an 2 vs. 1 by any stretch. More like a 2 vs. 3.

@DARK_RITUAL:

nothing like a sneak attack, the clone is part of Doflamingo hax fruit, you can aswell say Sanji got sneak attacked by Dofla invisible web. Atleast we agree on something.

Well, I can agree with this, but it's hardly ownage to land a single punch.

Also, let's stop using "hax" as an argument. It's just a cheap way to make excuses.

@DARK_RITUAL:

Wouldn't the same be said about Sanji Diablo jambe?

Well, he was able to block Sanji's fire kick with only his leg. Against Luffy, he needed to use CoA (which he didn't use against Sanji).

@DARK_RITUAL:

Round 1 was with a weakened Sanji, but people already judging him with that with no care if he gets a round 2 or 3. So if people keep judging Sanji's performance with his round 1 then I might aswell judge Law's performance with his round 1 too.

Sanji was defeated in much less time. At least Law was able to survive his encounters for far longer (including the one with Fujitora).

Though I do agree it wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

And it's not like Sanji will have other rounds. We literally can only judge from that one.

@DARK_RITUAL:

Dofla tied him with his ability, Bellamy is being controlled by Dofla ability so it all ends with -Doflamingo is still fighting LUFFY using his ability, it's not his fault that he can multitask with his ability, Dofla is not stopping LUFFY to tie his hands or use Trebol as a hostage against him.

Because without Bellamy around, Parasite wouldn't work.

It's similar to a person fighting another who has a mind-controlled sidekick. You're not going to call that a 1 vs. 1.

There's also the fact that using a hostage is considered a dirty move in any fight.

[ICEMAN]

Sanji will get his chance to shine against Tamago and Pekoms. Although I would love to see Sanji captured and eaten by Big Mom. Only to escape when Big Mom takes a dump.

[LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND]

@King:

Well, I can agree with this, but it's hardly ownage to land a single punch.

Well, he was able to block Sanji's fire kick with only his leg. Against Luffy, he needed to use CoA (which he didn't use against Sanji).

Could've used the clear haki, seeing as there were no up close observers, no 1 to say that in a not forced awkward way by Sanji, or DD. And him using it doesn't prove which was the stronger defense as Luffy has seemingly used both for attacking/ defending which adds more "impact".

@King:

Sanji was defeated in much less time. At least Law was able to survive his encounters for far longer (including the one with Fujitora).

But thats assuming as to how he survived so long. Yet pretty much all the scenes we were shown, don't remember him attacking at some1/ DD was till when he was alone with DD, so if he survived so long by being a good dodger that DD never seemed to try to trap/ pin down/ or even control, should he really get credit for surviving longer?

AND Add to that, no 1 seems to remember but Sanji was the 1st actual time that DD, or any stronger characters in the arc wanted to kill and be done with it. Law vs DD/ Fujitora seems a bit less impressive where what little we were shown of that fight , no 1 seemed to get truly serious, or at the very least they definitely seemed to want to capture Law alive, even when fighting him alone and at multiple later meet- ups. In fact the amount of times it's gotten to the point where they just wanted to kill their enemiesdead, can be narrowed in this whole arc to Sanji's/ Kyros's missed beheading/ and Pica after going giant killing the amassed fighters.
And with Sanji being the 1st, might just seems to make him less impressive to some, but all these other comparisons to that are missing that 1 key factor thus making the impressiveness or not, debatable.

@Magi:

. Sanji didn't get sneak attacked. He knew it was coming and he wasn't occupied with anything else, unlike Luffy.

How in the world are you saying Sanji knew invisible strings, from a completely unknown invisible ability, would wrap themselves around his body, without his knowing, entangling him while he was preoccupied with attacking?!! Thus rendering him completely immobile?!!! WTC??!! Please explain that to me?

@Magi:

Sanji wasn't weakened. What the hell? The fact that you think Viola weakened him tells me all I need to know lol.

You're only looking at the outcome and not the reason they're in the position they're in.
Luffy and Law were either handicapped or in unfavourable conditions. Sanji had no handicaps.

And the fact that you think you know what went on despite The actual story telling otherwise, or nothing is quite telling as well.

I would think not knowing your opponent has an overwhelmingly strong invisible ability would fall under "unfavorable conditions" in a forced desperate fight mid- air, especially 1 he doesn't seem to be using against any1 else in this arc. But, And while In your POV, Sanji getting earlier ganged up on would do nothing,/ or neglible damage 1 could still reason as like Bellamy he let himself get beat, but for Violet, it's likely he didn't defend at all against who knows what, so there's still no way he's as 100% as he would need to be when facing a 100% DD. So yeah, 'handicapped enough'.

@Ussop:

Sanji-unknown powers vs sanji known powers? Does it make any real difference? Nope. DD known powers vs unknown powers? Yes, it make all the difference in the world, since he has 1 shot moves like parasite that turns you into a target that can't move and can only eat attacks, it's a one man game after parasite.

Pica in the same train with Doflamingo? His fruit is not as hax as Doflamingo's one, since he doesn't have hax moves like parasite. I would love to see Zoro figure out Doflamingo's powers when he is on parasite, can't move a finger and can only get damage. Not to mention Doflamingo is superior to Pica in every way.

And add to that as Dark Ritual pointed out Sanji is fighting mid- air with his only means of attacking being the only reason he's airborne, which means once they were tangled and stopped so was he, and that would go for any1 even assuming they could fly/ get to fight in the 1st place.

[King Cannon]

@LUFFYSMC:

Could've used the clear haki, seeing as there were no up close observers, no 1 to say that in a not forced awkward way by Sanji, or DD. And him using it doesn't prove which was the stronger defense as Luffy has seemingly used both for attacking/ defending which adds more "impact".

Doula could have just said "Armament" against Sanji (like he did against Luffy), but he didn't. Again, I'm basing this on what is shown.

@LUFFYSMC:

But thats assuming as to how he survived so long. Yet pretty much all the scenes we were shown, don't remember him attacking at some1/ DD was till when he was alone with DD, so if he survived so long by being a good dodger that DD never seemed to try to trap/ pin down/ or even control, should he really get credit for surviving longer?

Yes, because neither Doula or Fuji held out against Law.

And he was pinned down by Fuji.

[LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND]

@King:

Doula could have just said "Armament" against Sanji (like he did against Luffy), but he didn't. Again, I'm basing this on what is shown.

Yes, because neither Doula or Fuji held out against Law.

And he was pinned down by Fuji.

Except no one would say armaments for the clear haki, nor would it especially necessarily be "shown".

Not exactly sure what you meant by the bold?

[Magi]

@LUFFYSMC:

Please explain that to me?

1.You're exaggerating like hell.
2. Sanji did know he was being attacked the first time Dofla used five coloured strings.
3. His strings aren't invisible.
4. Luffy countered them just fine and Law continues to do that.

-snip-

I refuse to read this paragraph since it's a jumbled mess and quite frankly, the way you're attempting to excruciatingly describe every little detail for no reason irritates me.

[LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND]

@Magi:

1.You're exaggerating like hell.
2. Sanji did know he was being attacked the first time Dofla used five coloured strings.
3. His strings aren't invisible.
4. Luffy countered them just fine and Law continues to do that.

I refuse to read this paragraph since it's a jumbled mess and quite frankly, the way you're attempting to excruciatingly describe every little detail for no reason irritates me.

Ah right, forgot your that type…
So playing your game, knowing you didn't read any of my comment, nothing I have to say to you.
Good Day.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Magi:

Stop saying "hax" as if it discredits anything. Your point of them not being able to do anything was completely wrong. You should also stop saying warlord as if it gives credit to anything. It's a mere title.

I'm gonna use "hax" because hax ability can end a fight an instant, because of hax LUFFY lost to CC in an instant, because of hax Vergo got one-shotted by Law.

Well I was using the term "warlord" just to imply that everyone knows LUFFY and Law is stronger than Sanji but the fact that this so stronger than Sanji guys didn't do anything impressive against Dofla says a lot, this so guys who are suppose to be stronger than Sanji barely did any damage to Doflamingo or fared better than Sanji who's meant to be weaker than them.

Sanji didn't get sneak attacked. He knew it was coming and he wasn't occupied with anything else, unlike Luffy.

Sanji knew five-colored string was coming but I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about when Dofla stopped Sanji in mid-air and Jora explained that it's like an invisible web no one sees until you get caught in it. That's a pure sneak attack since Sanji didn't see that coming until he stopped moving.

Not at all.

what?

Sanji wasn't weakened. What the hell? The fact that you think Viola weakened him tells me all I need to know lol.

The fact that you think Sanji wasn't weakened makes it clear you don't even know what your talking about or you just wanna turn a blind eye on facts.

You're only looking at the outcome and not the reason they're in the position they're in.
Luffy and Law were either handicapped or in unfavourable conditions. Sanji had no handicaps.

Sanji was in the condition he was in because he's trying to protect his friends, LUFFY and Law wasn't.

Again you totally blind or ignorant if you can't see Sanji was more handicapped and unfavorable condition than those two.
1- Sanji was fighting to protect.
2- Sanji was fighting in air, and he uses his leg to fly while at the sametime using the legs to fight toss this should put limitation on his movements.
3- He took a beaten from Violet.
4- He didn't know jack-shit about Doflamingo ability. This why Oda had Law explain Dofla ability to Sanji after he saved him, if Oda didn't want to imply that Sanji lost quickly because of lack of knowledge the. He shouldn't have had Law tell Sanji about Dofla ability rightaway.

EDIT: just to remind you the ass whopping Sanji took from Violet.

!

[Magi]

@DARK_RITUAL:

end a fight an instant,

The nature of an ability means nothing. A fight is a fight. Law is fighting DD with pure swordsmanship right now.

is stronger than Sanji

That has absolutely nothing to do with him being a Warlord.

barely did any damage to Doflamingo

One Red hawk made him cough up blood. Sanji couldn't even scratch his coat.
Sanji was losing to his subordinate. You don't have an argument.

you just wanna turn a blind eye on facts.

There was no indication of him being "weakened". You're literally making this up to suit your argument.

-snip-

1. That had nothing to do with him losing.
2. DD uses his arms to fly yet still managed to fight just fine. Stop making excuses.
3. Yet he was unscathed when he arrived to fight DD. He also fights with his legs and she did absolutely nothing to them. That's like saying Luffy is weakened because he fought Chinjao.
4. All Law did was say that Dofla had the String String fruit.

[RomanceDawn]

I'm not sure what's being argued and I'm not taking sides I just want to say that Jabra implied that taking on an enemy who knows the 6 powers(specifically moon walk) in air gives the 6 powers user an advantage. And being able to fly by kicking the air shouldn't disrupt Sanji's attacking kicks. It would be no different than just pushing off the ground for a standard jump kick.

[desa]

@RomanceDawn:

I'm not sure what's being argued and I'm not taking sides I just want to say that Jabra implied that taking on an enemy who knows the 6 powers(specifically moon walk) in air gives the 6 powers user an advantage. And being able to fly by kicking the air shouldn't disrupt Sanji's attacking kicks. It would be no different than just pushing off the ground for a standard jump kick.

I think it's related to your opponent not being able to fly himself.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Magi:

The nature of an ability means nothing. A fight is a fight. Law is fighting DD with pure swordsmanship right now.

well I like how you said that "a fight is a fight" so no excuses for Law being owned as easily as Sanji got owned.

Please don't talk about law's fight which is going on right now, we are talking about their first official fights, and Law got raped just like Sanji.

That has absolutely nothing to do with him being a Warlord.

well who gives a shit about warlord as long as you get my point.

One Red hawk made him cough up blood. Sanji couldn't even scratch his coat.

yeah a RedHawk that could only be achieved with a 2 against 1 fight. Law and LUFFY vs Dofla that's how they were able to land that hit and your comparing this with a 1 vs 1, that's just lame man. And on top of that your comparing one of luffys strongest attacks so far with a normal attack of Sanji, again lame man, seem like you running out of excuses.

Sanji was losing to his subordinate. You don't have an argument.

This right here proves that your a fanboy or a complete Sanji hater. What does Sanji vs Vergo fight had to do with Sanji vs Doflamingo? And since when was Sanji losing to Doflamingo subordinate? I will like to read this manga you talking about.

There was no indication of him being "weakened". You're literally making this up to suit your argument.

hahah funny cause it seem like your contradicting yourself. If there is no indication of Sanji being weakened then why would you say "a weakened Law"? Sorry to break it to you, there is no indication of Law being weakened so don't use that argument again.

1. That had nothing to do with him losing.

well Law and LUFFY unfavorable conditions had nothing to do with them losing.

2. DD uses his arms to fly yet still managed to fight just fine. Stop making excuses.

yeah the same Dofla who can complete clone his whole body, so what's stopping him from making invisible multiple string hands?

3. Yet he was unscathed when he arrived to fight DD. He also fights with his legs and she did absolutely nothing to them. That's like saying Luffy is weakened because he fought Chinjao.

well Law looked unscathed to me, and Fujitora Gravity or meteor did nothing to Law's hand.

4. All Law did was say that Dofla had the String String fruit.

yep, and that's a big information.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RomanceDawn:

I'm not sure what's being argued and I'm not taking sides I just want to say that Jabra implied that taking on an enemy who knows the 6 powers(specifically moon walk) in air gives the 6 powers user an advantage. And being able to fly by kicking the air shouldn't disrupt Sanji's attacking kicks. It would be no different than just pushing off the ground for a standard jump kick.

Are you fa forgetting that this so called 6 powers users fight with their hands? How many of them have you seen fight with their leg? Half of the six powers is related to hand attacks, so they only need leg for flying while they do what they do best with their hands toss giving them advantage but Sanji ain't like that. Sanji only fights with his legs and flies with his legs.

[desa]

@DARK_RITUAL:

well I like how you said that "a fight is a fight" so no excuses for Law being owned as easily as Sanji got owned.

He didn't. Law lasted a while Sanji didn't. But I'm interest which fight you count at the first? The one were Law is doing a 2 vs 1 or the one in the bridge?

Please don't talk about law's fight which is going on right now, we are talking about their first official fights, and Law got raped just like Sanji.

He didn't. He either last as long as bloc C or enough to go from the bridge to the coliseum.

yeah a RedHawk that could only be achieved with a 2 against 1 fight. Law and LUFFY vs Dofla that's how they were able to land that hit and your comparing this with a 1 vs 1, that's just lame man. And on top of that your comparing one of luffys strongest attacks so far with a normal attack of Sanji, again lame man, seem like you running out of excuses.

Dofla had Trebol and Bellamy. Even discarding Bellamy it's 2 vs 2.

hahah funny cause it seem like your contradicting yourself. If there is no indication of Sanji being weakened then why would you say "a weakened Law"? Sorry to break it to you, there is no indication of Law being weakened so don't use that argument again.

So the one in the bridge? Doflamingo mentioned on Law having more power left than he expected. Law commented on how fighting the fish would make him weaker. And he was facing and admiral and shichibukai tag team for some time.

well Law and LUFFY unfavorable conditions had nothing to do with them losing.

For Law:
At Green bit? Tag team
Bridge? Lost stamina and beaten to a pulp
Castle? tag team
Luffy:
Castle1? unfinished battle
Well? in water
Castle2?Legitimate, I think.

yeah the same Dofla who can complete clone his whole body, so what's stopping him from making invisible multiple string hands?

They were no indication any of them were incapacitated in air. Let's not speculate for nothing.

well Law looked unscathed to me, and Fujitora Gravity or meteor did nothing to Law's hand.

Bloody Law and Dofla comment

yep, and that's a big information.

Agree on that.

Are you fa forgetting that this so called 6 powers users fight with their hands? How many of them have you seen fight with their leg? Half of the six powers is related to hand attacks, so they only need leg for flying while they do what they do best with their hands toss giving them advantage but Sanji ain't like that. Sanji only fights with his legs and flies with his legs.

Kaku fights with legs.

[RomanceDawn]

@DARK_RITUAL:

well I like how you said that "a fight is a fight" so no excuses for Law being owned as easily as Sanji got owned.

Please don't talk about law's fight which is going on right now, we are talking about their first official fights, and Law got raped just like Sanji.

well who gives a shit about warlord as long as you get my point.

yeah a RedHawk that could only be achieved with a 2 against 1 fight. Law and LUFFY vs Dofla that's how they were able to land that hit and your comparing this with a 1 vs 1, that's just lame man. And on top of that your comparing one of luffys strongest attacks so far with a normal attack of Sanji, again lame man, seem like you running out of excuses.

This right here proves that your a fanboy or a complete Sanji hater. What does Sanji vs Vergo fight had to do with Sanji vs Doflamingo? And since when was Sanji losing to Doflamingo subordinate? I will like to read this manga you talking about.

hahah funny cause it seem like your contradicting yourself. If there is no indication of Sanji being weakened then why would you say "a weakened Law"? Sorry to break it to you, there is no indication of Law being weakened so don't use that argument again.

well Law and LUFFY unfavorable conditions had nothing to do with them losing.
yeah the same Dofla who can complete clone his whole body, so what's stopping him from making invisible multiple string hands?
well Law looked unscathed to me, and Fujitora Gravity or meteor did nothing to Law's hand.
yep, and that's a big information.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Are you fa forgetting that this so called 6 powers users fight with their hands? How many of them have you seen fight with their leg? Half of the six powers is related to hand attacks, so they only need leg for flying while they do what they do best with their hands toss giving them advantage but Sanji ain't like that. Sanji only fights with his legs and flies with his legs.

Think about that for one second. If Sanji is using the air with enough power to jump off of it like it's solid how is that any different than using the ground? His fighting is not hindered by his ability to jump off of the air only enhanced. I could give you a million and one ancient Chinese secret techniques describing why but that should be clear as bell.

[LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND]

@RomanceDawn:

Think about that for one second. If Sanji is using the air with enough power to jump off of it like it's solid how is that any different than using the ground? His fighting is not hindered by his ability to jump off of the air only enhanced. I could give you a million and one ancient Chinese secret techniques describing why but that should be clear as bell.

Because while making it like it's solid still doesn't give it the actual full bonus of being on the solid ground…
On the ground, would you have to keep jumping just to stay in the same relative position?...

Because yes being either forced to move, or drop( possibly losing the fight because of a wrong choice of either), no matter what seems like a pretty big drawback.

Then there' the fact as Desa mentioned is the bonuses seem to apply to fighting grounded opponents, yet DD's ability allowed him to stay 'airborne' without any constant/ continued real effort at all, while Sanji's way was kinda the complete opposite. Fighting airborne fighter to airborne fighter means more pathways are open to you to attack and thus defend.
And when you're busy using your legs for veritably everything we see just how much less Sanji defended, and how much more he attacked to not need to defend.

! Then there's the SH's who if Sanji didn't make himself the properly enticing bait, DD would either get to them anyway, or use going after them as a decoy just to lure Sanji in, (which he kinda did anyway), which seems another unfavorable condition, almost entirely resembling Luffy's current Bellamy problems.

@desa:

He didn't. Law lasted a while Sanji didn't. But I'm interest which fight you count at the first? The one were Law is doing a 2 vs 1 or the one in the bridge?

He didn't. He either last as long as bloc C or enough to go from the bridge to the coliseum. s.

Except show me in either of those fights, besides Sanji, where DD/ or any opponent actually wanted to kill?
You can't…
And that is the key difference that would seemingly make the 'time difference', at least, mean much less...
At least IMHO.

@desa:

For Law:
At Green bit? Tag team
Bridge? Lost stamina and beaten to a pulp
Castle? tag team
Luffy:
Castle1? unfinished battle
Well? in water
Castle2?Legitimate, I think.

Think you missed his direct point only to Magi's denial, who completely dismissed Sanji's (seemingly obvious as very definition of handicap), earlier beating as having any sort of effect on him, thus saying it wasn't a "handicap" and or "unfavorable occurrence" in any way; basically Dark Ritual was sarcastically/ sardonically saying if that doesn't count then neither do "your supposed examples of "handicaps", or "unfavorable circumstances" count because they were generally the same.

@desa:

They were no indication any of them were incapacitated in air. Let's not speculate for nothing.

Who exactly are you talking about in this response?

@desa:

Kaku fights with legs.

But not only with his 2 legs, key differences, plural

[DARK_RITUAL]

@desa:

He didn't. Law lasted a while Sanji didn't. But I'm interest which fight you count at the first? The one were Law is doing a 2 vs 1 or the one in the bridge?

He didn't. He either last as long as bloc C or enough to go from the bridge to the coliseum.

Dofla had Trebol and Bellamy. Even discarding Bellamy it's 2 vs 2.

So the one in the bridge? Doflamingo mentioned on Law having more power left than he expected. Law commented on how fighting the fish would make him weaker. And he was facing and admiral and shichibukai tag team for some time.

For Law:
At Green bit? Tag team
Bridge? Lost stamina and beaten to a pulp
Castle? tag team
Luffy:
Castle1? unfinished battle
Well? in water
Castle2?Legitimate, I think.

They were no indication any of them were incapacitated in air. Let's not speculate for nothing.

Bloody Law and Dofla comment

Agree on that.

Kaku fights with legs.

I would like to reply you on everything you've said but none of my previous comment or post was directed at you, so don't jump into people's convo like that and start giving reasons why you have no idea why were at the place we at.

If you want I can start a fresh convo with you.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RomanceDawn:

Think about that for one second. If Sanji is using the air with enough power to jump off of it like it's solid how is that any different than using the ground? His fighting is not hindered by his ability to jump off of the air only enhanced. I could give you a million and one ancient Chinese secret techniques describing why but that should be clear as bell.

Fighting in air is nothing like fighting on ground. When you walk or when Sanji fight on solid ground do you see him jumping up so he won't fall? No because he's already on solid ground.

When Sanji fight in air he has to kick himself up then attack by the time he finish attacking Gravity will start pulling him down and he has to kick himself up again and by the time he is doing this any strong character like Doflamingo can take the advantage and attack since Sanji will be vulnerable while he is trying to maintain his air-float. Well this just me saying.

Maybe it will be easier for you to understand like this, Can you run and kick at the sametime? The answer is no, while your running and you try to kick if you notice you would've stopped running for a moment and your speed has reduced then you have to pick up the pace you was at before by then your opponent has already put a gap between you two.

[RomanceDawn]

Just take my word for it. Sanji pushing off of the air to launch into a kick is no different then jumping from the ground. Just because he constantly has to do it in no way hinders him. It doesn't matter where the support comes from whether it be standing on the ground on jumping from the side of the building the result is the same. Only difference being is that he can easily switch directions in mid air unlike the time he jump kicked Jabra only to be caught mid kick because he couldn't change his trajectory. If anything he has more options to move in all directs if the height is great enough.

Let's not even get into manga logic. Sanji didn't earn a revered skill of CP9 and Vice Admirals only for it to hinder his fighting ability.

If you are talking real life, Sanji isn't going to get any more tired kicking the air then he would running across the ground on foot. If we're still talking real life gravity isn't going to mean much until Oda wants it to. Characters stand suspended in air talking for crying out and I'm not talking about flyers either. You might as well argue about all aspects concerning Kizaru.

And no you don't run and kick at the same time but you can run into a kick losing no momentum what so ever. I don't think you know exactly what you're talking about here. This coming from roughly a decade of martial arts experience training with and under some big names. Lastly, aside from grounded kicks the most powerful jumping kicks come from the same leg one jumps off of anyway.

[Ussop]

About the fly part, Sanji just got the skill. DD has his fruit at least for ten years, who knows for how long he can fly, not to mention it doesn't look like he need much effort to fly.

Point is, DD is the more experienced aerial combatant.

[Shadowgreed]

@DARK_RITUAL:

I would like to reply you on everything you've said but none of my previous comment or post was directed at you, so don't jump into people's convo like that and start giving reasons why you have no idea why were at the place we at.

If you want I can start a fresh convo with you.

That was fun to read I guess

[RamistaR]

Yeah, arguing that Sanji's only post TS power-up makes him weaker is pretty funny.

[Shadowgreed]

@RamistaR:

Yeah, arguing that Sanji's only post TS power-up makes him weaker is pretty funny.

I actually used this type of argument in order to make my "Sanji Mera Mera No Mi" fiasco look better, but after all this went to trash I realized that wishes don't come truth and not understanding a scene can be dangerous.

[RamistaR]

@Shadowgreed:

I actually used this type of argument in order to make my "Sanji Mera Mera No Mi" fiasco look better, but after all this went to trash I realized that wishes don't come truth and not understanding a scene can be dangerous.

Yohohohohoho! I know that feel, I was cheering for Rebecca at the time.

[King Cannon]

@DARK_RITUAL:

I would like to reply you on everything you've said but none of my previous comment or post was directed at you, so don't jump into people's convo like that and start giving reasons why you have no idea why were at the place we at.

If you want I can start a fresh convo with you.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Fighting in air is nothing like fighting on ground. When you walk or when Sanji fight on solid ground do you see him jumping up so he won't fall? No because he's already on solid ground.

When Sanji fight in air he has to kick himself up then attack by the time he finish attacking Gravity will start pulling him down and he has to kick himself up again and by the time he is doing this any strong character like Doflamingo can take the advantage and attack since Sanji will be vulnerable while he is trying to maintain his air-float. Well this just me saying.

Maybe it will be easier for you to understand like this, Can you run and kick at the sametime? The answer is no, while your running and you try to kick if you notice you would've stopped running for a moment and your speed has reduced then you have to pick up the pace you was at before by then your opponent has already put a gap between you two.

Man, you really should stop telling others to make up excuses if all your arguments are going to degenerate into this. Just look at yourself.

Accept what the manga shows: In terms of 1-vs.1 so far against Doula, Sanji did badly, Law did badly but had an actual in-universe explanation for his performance (pointed out by Doula himself. Sanji's wounds were never pointed out to have bothered him), and Luffy did slightly better.

Not to mention that Law is fighting again, and so will Luffy, probably meaning improved showings. Sanji won't have another chance, and we can't base showings on what-ifs.

[LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND]

@King:

Man, you really should stop telling others to make up excuses if all your arguments are going to degenerate into this. Just look at yourself.

Accept what the manga shows: In terms of 1-vs.1 so far against Doula, Sanji did badly, Law did badly but had an actual in-universe explanation for his performance (pointed out by Doula himself. Sanji's wounds were never pointed out to have bothered him), and Luffy did slightly better.

Not to mention that Law is fighting again, and so will Luffy, probably meaning improved showings. Sanji won't have another chance, and we can't base showings on what-ifs.

Yet once again can some1 show me where the key difference: DD choosing/ or fighting as if to kill either Law, or even realistically Luffy, and your point I can entirely see as validated. But seeing as how all the times he's fought these people, besides Sanji, he seems more into playing/ torturing them rather then straight out killing. Hell an injured Bellamy managed to be fine precisely because DD wanted him so; and that being the difference makes the biggest difference to me.

Especially when looking at if you can actually call what Law did: getting injured minutes before a fight is shown "explanation of his performance", then the same thing should equally be applied to Sanji's mirror same situation.

Oh and tell me when has Sanji's wounds been said to bother him, ever while in a fight? Even with Vergo it was after the actual fight, and normally the situation happening just within minutes, or during his fight seems to be seen as enough of an in universe "explanation": I. e. Pretty much every fight he's had besides against the Franky family, and Mr. 3. Not saying it necessarily had an impact on the fight, but if you're saying he went in that fight at 100% I'd call Bull- ish.

[King Cannon]

@LUFFYSMC:

Especially when looking at if you can actually call what Law did: getting injured minutes before a fight is shown "explanation of his performance", then the same thing should equally be applied to Sanji's mirror same situation.

The main problem is not Law getting injured, but rather using his powers too much, which makes him exhausted. By the time he fought Doula alone, he had used his abilities to run away, save Sanji and defend from meteors, and this after Doula thought he couldn't use them anymore.

This was pointed out when his group was crossing the iron bridge.

[Ussop]

@King:

Man, you really should stop telling others to make up excuses if all your arguments are going to degenerate into this. Just look at yourself.

Accept what the manga shows: In terms of 1-vs.1 so far against Doula, Sanji did badly, Law did badly but had an actual in-universe explanation for his performance (pointed out by Doula himself. Sanji's wounds were never pointed out to have bothered him), and Luffy did slightly better.

Not to mention that Law is fighting again, and so will Luffy, probably meaning improved showings. Sanji won't have another chance, and we can't base showings on what-ifs.

You can base showing on what we have so far. Luffy had help from PIS, Sanji din't.

DD din't think twice to use parasite-immobilize target on Sanji. Did he even try it on Luffy in two fights? Nope. Could even say that for Law.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@RomanceDawn:

Just take my word for it. Sanji pushing off of the air to launch into a kick is no different then jumping from the ground. Just because he constantly has to do it in no way hinders him. It doesn't matter where the support comes from whether it be standing on the ground on jumping from the side of the building the result is the same. Only difference being is that he can easily switch directions in mid air unlike the time he jump kicked Jabra only to be caught mid kick because he couldn't change his trajectory. If anything he has more options to move in all directs if the height is great enough.

Let's not even get into manga logic. Sanji didn't earn a revered skill of CP9 and Vice Admirals only for it to hinder his fighting ability.

If you are talking real life, Sanji isn't going to get any more tired kicking the air then he would running across the ground on foot. If we're still talking real life gravity isn't going to mean much until Oda wants it to. Characters stand suspended in air talking for crying out and I'm not talking about flyers either. You might as well argue about all aspects concerning Kizaru.

And no you don't run and kick at the same time but you can run into a kick losing no momentum what so ever. I don't think you know exactly what you're talking about here. This coming from roughly a decade of martial arts experience training with and under some big names. Lastly, aside from grounded kicks the most powerful jumping kicks come from the same leg one jumps off of anyway.

Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not gonna take your word for it.
My point here is that Sanji is weaker fighting in mid-air than him fighting on solid ground. Sky-walk doesn't make Sanji weaker I never said such a thing but that Sanji is limited in the air than he is on a slid ground, why you ask? Because pre-Timeskip Sanji can't or couldn't even fight in mid-air or fly but now he can toss making him a stronger character overall but in no way can you say Sanji gaining skywalk made him weaker because he is weaker in mid-air when compared to solid ground because Sanji never had the privilege to fight in air before.

And me using real life is just to give you an idea or perceptive of where I'm coming from but it seems like you misunderstood this. Never did I compare a manga logic with real life.

I'm making as much sense as any sensible person would. Is you that's not making any sense, "fighting in air is just the same as fighting on ground" sorry but that's some B.S. to me. Then you proceed to claim Sanji learnt a new move just to hinder him, no it doesn't because he never did have the ability to fly before.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RamistaR:

Yeah, arguing that Sanji's only post TS power-up makes him weaker is pretty funny.

No, your post is what that's pretty funny because you don't know what your talking about.

I'm arguing that Sanji is limited in mid-air thanks to his fighting style and how he flies when compared to hi fighting on solid ground.

Skywalk doesn't make Sanji weaker because he never had the ability to fly before so it only made him more versatile and stronger overall. now the jokes on you. Mr it's funny.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@King:

Man, you really should stop telling others to make up excuses if all your arguments are going to degenerate into this. Just look at yourself.

I'm looking at myself right now and I look pretty damn good.

Accept what the manga shows: In terms of 1-vs.1 so far against Doula, Sanji did badly, Law did badly but had an actual in-universe explanation for his performance (pointed out by Doula himself. Sanji's wounds were never pointed out to have bothered him), and Luffy did slightly better.

And manga shows that Doflomingo wanted to kill Sanji as fast as possible while he was toying with Law to get information out of him. If you gonna put "but" between Law vs Doflamingo encounter then there is also a "but" between Sanji vs Doflamingo. And LUFFY didn't do any better, if you claim otherwise please explain.

Not to mention that Law is fighting again, and so will Luffy, probably meaning improved showings. Sanji won't have another chance, and we can't base showings on what-ifs.

This meaningless, we are talking about Laws first 1 vs 1 fight against Doflamingo and Sanji first 1 vs 1 match with Doflamingo there is no "what-ifs" here since both situations has already occurred.

[King Cannon]

@DARK_RITUAL:

I'm looking at myself right now and I look pretty damn good.

You're pretty much arguing pointless physics of a shonen manga, with excuses like "Oh, but Sanji is weaker in the air" in a world where people can fly in the first place by kicking hard enough. Or lose gallons of blood, but still being alive and fighting.

@DARK_RITUAL:

And manga shows that Doflomingo wanted to kill Sanji as fast as possible while he was toying with Law to get information out of him. If you gonna put "but" between Law vs Doflamingo encounter then there is also a "but" between Sanji vs Doflamingo. And LUFFY didn't do any better, if you claim otherwise please explain.

Not using CoA against Sanji.

Also, Luffy was able to dodge a double Goshikito while holding a person. Sanji couldn't even dodge a single one.

@DARK_RITUAL:

This meaningless, we are talking about Laws first 1 vs 1 fight against Doflamingo and Sanji first 1 vs 1 match with Doflamingo there is no "what-ifs" here since both situations has already occurred.

Well, what if Law does better now against Doula? Law did say that being carried allowed him to conserve stamina, so he's not handicapped anymore.

[RamistaR]

It was never stated that Sanji's style is weaker when he goes Skywalk period

I don't know what was the original debate about, but as a Sanji fanboy I find that utterly stupid.
Well I guess it would make sense in an other type of shonen with more strategies. But Oda didn't portrayed Skywalk as a technique with drawbacks. It's only an advantage on the battlefield.
Hey how do you explain Gumo Gumo no Storm ? Shonen! And an other answer would be too boring.