! So not all Bookers go to the pond, only the ones who go to the pond go to the pond? And it is only the ones that go to the pond that have a variable of being baptized. So Elizabeth joined the times so that all of the Bookers that have a constant of going to the pond go there and become one man? That'd make sense if different realities of people became one person in this specific reality, but we seen multiple Elizabeth's as well as Bookers co-existing entering the Lighthouses. @_@
Bioshock Infinite
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i think nex has spent more time thinking about the game than the writers' did
The game isn't that dense
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@The:
i think nex has spent more time thinking about the game than the writers' did
Considering it took Levine 4 months to write just the ending, after having already spent years working on the story itself, I'm not even close.
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I cannot explain how deserving you are of a wedgie
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! That's a good explanation of the ending Nex, a nice read. I haven't played a new game in awhile but everyone was talking about how great this was. I didn't get as far as tater, knowing that Booker was comstock, but obviously he being a main character and parallel universe being involved I knew he was in some way responsible for Elizabeth being in that tower. However there's so many other little story bits floating around that whatever twist was inevitably coming it was laid out so well and for so long in the voxphones and in characters you meet. A second play through really gave me a great appreciation for that, the twins give you the whole thing right on the boat to the lighthouse. Everything is spelled out in not so clear ways but it's there and it's woven so nicely into the game world that it makes all the exploring you do pay off. I don't think there is an area i didn't completely clear, no trashcan left unsearched, etc. Though I couldn't figure out how to get that piece of gear in the Graveyard behind the gate. Elizabeth is hands down the best AI i've ever played with. The decision to have he present during fight scenes but not being something you have to protect and the way she goes through every room pointing out things you might have missed and just her character made her really enjoyable to be with. I missed her when she was gone and i was really glad to have her back when she showed up again. The Lutece twins/siblings/continuum are probably my favorite characters from a video game since the Milk Man in Psychonauts.
! I liked Bioshock One. Bioshock 2 was so boring and such a repeat i stopped halfway through but this kept my attention all throughout. I marathoned the back half of the game after taking it area by area because I was so caught up in it. So it was surprisingly good. bravo. -
Ugh, I've been bashing my head for days trying to figure out something from the game..
Maybe someone can clear this up for me? pleasee!!! -Why did Comestock even take Booker's daughter with him? Did he need her for something?
-Right at the end where Lizzy killed Booker…Did that really work? Wouldn't there be just another reality where Booker wasn't killed and could be baptized/ become Comestock?
I can't figure this out and it's been bothering me for daysnope
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Ugh, I've been bashing my head for days trying to figure out something from the game..
Maybe someone can clear this up for me? pleasee!!! -Why did Comestock even take Booker's daughter with him? Did he need her for something?
-Right at the end where Lizzy killed Booker…Did that really work? Wouldn't there be just another reality where Booker wasn't killed and could be baptized/ become Comestock?
I can't figure this out and it's been bothering me for days! To your first question, it is answered by an audio log where rosalind lutece explains that comstock looked through the tears and mistook what he saw for visions instead of probabilities. He saw New York burned down by Elizabeth so I hope that answers it.
! For the second question read nex's post from the page before, it's a pretty good possible interpretation of what might have happened. Or just google a bit if you want more interpretations, the game definitely has some good discussions surrounding it on the net(including several spoilercasts and what not). -
! Comstock actually abducted Elizabeth because the arch angel Columbia told him that Columbia's prosperity would be secured so long as rulership remained in his line, unfortunately for him the use of the Lutece's machine not only accelerated his aging, and gave him terminal cancer but also rendered him sterile so that the only way he could pass rulership of Columbia to someone of his line was by kidnapping the child of his alternate self.
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Thanks for replying. I mostly understand it now :D
I just love great story ridden games, and this one definitely goes on my best-games-ever list! It's a great piece of art -
The Lutece's totally trolled me early in the game! Right after you get to Columbia and the little boy gives you the "don't pick #77" postcard there's a telescope to the left that you can look through to get a good look at Elizabeth's tower. If you look down at the street below you you'll see the Lutece's goofing off, this was before the coin toss so this was the second time you saw them after the boat so it never really registered I just thought it was regular people. I left the telescope and explored a bit and went back to the part of the street and they were gone. I remember going "Huh… where'd those people go?" Turns out they're only visible through the telescope.
I also completely missed that the statue (that you're given a prompt to hold and look at) right before the raffle has a tear that turns it from Robert to Rosalind (and apparently vice-versa from what I've heard).
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Started 1999 mode and was disappointed to find none of my upgrades carried over, I recall hearing that it was like a new game+ mode? Guess I heard wrong. The whole "No money, returning you to the Main Menu" thing is really fucking stupid. Why send me all the way back to the main menu and have to go through the process of continuing from my last checkpoint? Why not just… Oh I dunno... send me back to my last checkpoint automatically?
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Started 1999 mode and was disappointed to find none of my upgrades carried over, I recall hearing that it was like a new game+ mode? Guess I heard wrong. The whole "No money, returning you to the Main Menu" thing is really fucking stupid. Why send me all the way back to the main menu and have to go through the process of continuing from my last checkpoint? Why not just… Oh I dunno... send me back to my last checkpoint automatically?
Trolling you man. They want to troll you.
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Wait… I thought it started you COMPLETELY OVER.
It just throws you back to the main menu and you have to load your save?
That is trolling..
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Well, thanks to Nex I think I understand the ending of Bioshock more clearly. this game gave me the feeling of closure I never got from bioshock 2. Infinite is the one of my favorites games now for sure, maybe below Baldur's gate and Plane Torment.
I have one question thought…
! Why Lutece warned Booker not to take 77# ball? To show off their powers, to have fun? what was the point?
And that thing that Lutece gives Elizabet - jewel with the sign of bird or cage, does this jewel have some profound meaning ?Think happy thoughts
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Well, thanks to Nex I think I understand the ending of Bioshock more clearly. this game gave me the feeling of closure I never got from bioshock 2. Infinite is the one of my favorites games now for sure, maybe below Baldur's gate and Plane Torment.
I have one question thought…
! Why Lutece warned Booker not to take 77# ball? To show off their powers, to have fun? what was the point?
And that thing that Lutece gives Elizabet - jewel with the sign of bird or cage, does this jewel have some profound meaning ?! Both were their little tests they do for fun, like the coin toss. Constants and variables. Booker always draws #77 as it's not a choice, Booker doesn't always choose the same brooch as it is a choice. As a further example using the coin toss; the coin always lands heads as it's a constant, while the act of choosing heads or tails is a variable. The raffle drawing is a constant, the brooch a variable.
! I was rather critical about these stupid little "choice" moments that changed nothing in the actual game (well Booker can have a wrapped hand from being stabbed and Elizabeth a different brooch for two of them) but as soon as I realized what the story was saying I got it. -
Thanks Buuhan, I had a thought that they were doing this for their own amusement
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[hide]It's fun trying to figure out what the constant and variables are.
Like Booker drinking the Shield potion. They mention that they are shocked that the drink didn't kill you. There were probably dozens of Bookers who took the drink and died each time.[/hide]
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[hide]It's fun trying to figure out what the constant and variables are.
Like Booker drinking the Shield potion. They mention that they are shocked that the drink didn't kill you. There were probably dozens of Bookers who took the drink and died each time.[/hide]
! I was under the impression the variables were choices that could be made. Drinking the potion is a choice, but rather it kills you or not isn't a choice, yet at the same time that IS what they're implying.
! I also love that the Lutece's acknowledge if you try to shoot them. At least at the Blue Ribbon, didn't try anywhere else. -
Bioshock Infinite in a nutshell:
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Treated myself to the bioshock infinite art book…REALLY look forward to when it finally arrives.
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[hide]It's fun trying to figure out what the constant and variables are.
Like Booker drinking the Shield potion. They mention that they are shocked that the drink didn't kill you. There were probably dozens of Bookers who took the drink and died each time.[/hide]
! I think that's the aspect of the story that confuses me the most… the fact that this has happened over and over. I honestly don't understand how that works...
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So, I was in the queue of some takeaway food stall close to where I live and I was wearing my bioshock infinite t-shirt when this weirdo comes close to me and says, buh another jerk with some bioshock infinite t-shirt, I bet you don´t know anything about it. So I told him the ending. He ran off, I swear I saw tears in those eyes. Dont mess with fans bitch
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Did he not know the ending?
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Amazing visuals, story and atmosphere. Gameplay was pretty good but nothing amazing either, it was bit chaotic at times and combat felt clunky in some places.
while it was quite the ride and Columbia was truely a sight to behold I feel it wasn't worth 50 euros, game has almost none replay value and lack of multiplayer and diffrent choices during campaign does not help either.
I applaud for creative story and world building and visuals were truely amazing but still I can't help to be little dissapointed, there was massive hype and all reviews were full of praises but I feel I didnt get that much.
It took me about 8-10 hours to complete story but after finishing it I dont think I will be touching this game for a while.
7,5/10 for me. -
If it only took you 8-10 hours, then you missed out on half the game. My first playthrough took me about 18 to hunt down all the voxophones and the kinetoscopes.
And that's a bummer about no replay. I felt immediately compelled to play it again, that way I could look for the hints of what was going to happen.
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I have to say admittingly why I find bioshock(in general) so insanely enjoyable is that it's a game that delivers something we don't get a lot in shooters(to my knowledge) and I think it does so very competently. I would be just curious if all the people that didn't enjoy it that much actually have some games in their mind that do what bioshock does better(cause I would like to play them) or if it's just that it's not quite their type of game.
Ideally examples that are more recent, I don't find it particular encouraging if the only other example that comes to my mind is spec ops or the now pretty old half life 1/2. Shooters in general are so lacking in things that sets them apart or makes them memorable that I would rate even what I felt pretty bland stuff higher just because it's a bit different. I mean when I played through bulletstorms story I thought this isn't so bad, but I've forgotten all about it now.
Given that there are many things gamers can prioritize, for me it's story for others it may be gameplay, challenge, music or visuals.
I encourage people to do some introspection regarding this, this will help you immensely when researching games that you intent to purchase, because at the end of the day no review will be able to tell you how much you will enjoy something. -
Amazing visuals, story and atmosphere. Gameplay was pretty good but nothing amazing either, it was bit chaotic at times and combat felt clunky in some places.
while it was quite the ride and Columbia was truely a sight to behold I feel it wasn't worth 50 euros, game has almost none replay value and lack of multiplayer and diffrent choices during campaign does not help either.
I applaud for creative story and world building and visuals were truely amazing but still I can't help to be little dissapointed, there was massive hype and all reviews were full of praises but I feel I didnt get that much.
It took me about 8-10 hours to complete story but after finishing it I dont think I will be touching this game for a while.
7,5/10 for me.If this game had multiplayer I'd bet my life, the life my of mother and father, and the life of my future wife and child, heck…even my best friend, this game would've of sucked donkey dick like BioShock 2.
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Bioshock 2 sucking for you might've had somthing do with the fact that it wasn't made by the same people that made the first.
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Beat 1999 mode today, so now I've beaten the game twice both on 1999 mode and hard mode. Unfortunately I missed one infusion in the Salty Oyster so now in order to get my last trrophy I'll have to beat the game one final time on Easy mode because I dont feel like replaying the last 3 levels in 1999 mode to get the trophy. Sigh
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Beat 1999 mode today, so now I've beaten the game twice both on 1999 mode and hard mode. Unfortunately I missed one infusion in the Salty Oyster so now in order to get my last trrophy I'll have to beat the game one final time on Easy mode because I dont feel like replaying the last 3 levels in 1999 mode to get the trophy. Sigh
You shouldn't. The game stacks save files when it auto saves, acting as a form of chapter select. Try going to load game and see if you can find a save around that point.
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Holding Off On Bioshcok Infinite Until Criterion Collection Bluray Drops
vhs will not cut it for this expeirence -
You shouldn't. The game stacks save files when it auto saves, acting as a form of chapter select. Try going to load game and see if you can find a save around that point.
Oh I definitely can but then I'll still have to beat the game from that point on finding the rest of the infusions, considering the difficulty would be set on 1999 id rather just cakewalk through easy mode.
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Man, looks like I'm late to the party!
! I have mixed feelings to the whole thing. Like….the atmosphere and environments were simply amazing, elizabeth and booker were fun characters whom i ended up cheering for (which initially blew my mind when booker was suffocated) and the gameplay was quite a blast due to vigors (bronco everything~). But the story where it takes place (columbia) just felt like a showpiece immediately after dimension-hopping. Halfway through the game i was barely putting too much attention to the places i was in, which kinda sucks given that i was constantly reminded that i was in rapture during my play of bioshock. Also, the key themes in the story felt rushed in favor of 'filler' missions. Oh and everything about ghost mom sucked
! I will say this through - hats off to irrational for managing to write a largely coherent plot (despite plotholes and dimension-hopping shenanigans) with a sobering ending where you meet 'anna' (at least in my interpretation) without comstock messing things up forever. Kinda wished that they went for something more substantial through.
Just one more question to clear doubts up through - the booker who was suffocated is considered dead right? So booker 2 (from the after credits) is a whole new booker free from the circle, but without the memories of columbia and elizabeth? -
! Yes, without Comstock, Columbia and all the events that take place after his incarnation (after baptism) are erased. It's tough for me to say what dimensional rules allowed a version of Booker to survive and live on with Anna… but i'm sure one of the synopsis posted in this thread can clear that up.
! The sad part is that the Elizabeth we know is completely gone though.
! A happy, but somber ending -
I think people use the term "plothole" too loosely. In my opinion, there is like…0 plotholes in the entirety of BioShock Infinite, especially if you pay attention and explore.
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@The:
I think people use the term "plothole" too loosely. In my opinion, there is like…0 plotholes in the entirety of BioShock Infinite, especially if you pay attention and explore.
Okay, explain this one:
! Booker activating a bathysphere. And please don't explain this with "Because Elizabeth WILLED it"
Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/pomeranianhero
deviantart: http://pomeranianhero.deviantart.com/
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Okay, explain this one:
! Booker activating a bathysphere
! That's such a minor thing that, like…90% of the playerbase (who aren't nit-picking weirdos) probably didn't catch, and something that will probably be explained away in a DLC anyway.
! It may have something to do with Zachary Comstock = Andrew Ryan, and Booker DeWitt being Zachary Comstock, based on what Elizabeth was getting at with constants and variables when you were running through the "Sea of Lighthouses".
! --The man who founds the city is a constant.
--The lighthouse that leads to said founded city is a constant.
--The city that said man founds is a constant.
--The girl being protected by an automaton is a constant (though the type of automaton is a variable) etc. -
@The:
! That's such a minor thing that, like…90% of the playerbase (who aren't nit-picking weirdos) probably didn't catch, and something that will probably be explained away in a DLC anyway.
! It may have something to do with Zachary Comstock = Andrew Ryan, and Booker DeWitt being Zachary Comstock, based on what Elizabeth was getting at with constants and variables when you were running through the "Sea of Lighthouses".
! --The man who founds the city is a constant.
--The lighthouse that leads to said founded city is a constant.
--The city that said man founds is a constant.
--The girl being protected by an automaton is a constant (though the type of automaton is a variable) etc.! It should be pretty apparent for Bioshock 1 players…which I assume is a fair portion of Bioshock Infinite players. Also, Comstock =/= Ryan based on their background history (birth, era). Since only Ryan's DNA can trigger the Bathysphere, how would that explain Booker utilizing it? (in a non-theoretical/thematic sense which doesn't really explain this phenomenon of Booker's DNA triggering the Bathysphere which is reserved for Andrew Ryan)
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Okay, explain this one:
! Booker activating a bathysphere. And please don't explain this with "Because Elizabeth WILLED it"
! It is stated in Bioshock that any one who is simply in Ryan's genetic ballpark can use them.
! But even then, Elizabeth was a god at the end of the game, so why would it not be possible that she simply willed it to.
! In the end though, that's not a plot hole. Especially since people who have never played Bioshock 1 would not know about it. In the context of Infinite, there is no reason for Booker not to be able to use it. -
@Nex:
! It is stated in Bioshock that any one who is simply in Ryan's genetic ballpark can use them.
! But even then, Elizabeth was a god at the end of the game, so why would it not be possible that she simply willed it to.
! In the end though, that's not a plot hole. Especially since people who have never played Bioshock 1 would not know about it. In the context of Infinite, there is no reason for Booker not to be able to use it.! 1.Even with Elizabeth's god-like powers, it doesn't make any sense to me that Booker could activate it. If Elizabeth activated it herself, then I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with this scenario.
2. You cannot dismiss this plot hole simply because it occurs within Bioshock 1. It is pretty clear that both games exist in the same canon universe (while 2 is still up in the air). I'm pretty sure the developers were aware of this "odd" occurrence when this poster was made explicit:
! Why they had Booker activate it while Elizabeth could have gotten away by saying "oh my god powers did it" is beyond me. The way I see it, this phenomenon is a relevant plot hole that is not fully explored. Otherwise, why include this poster at all as a reminder?Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/pomeranianhero
deviantart: http://pomeranianhero.deviantart.com/
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! 1.Even with Elizabeth's god-like powers, it doesn't make any sense to me that Booker could activate it. If Elizabeth activated it herself, then I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with this scenario.
2. You cannot dismiss this plot hole simply because it occurs within Bioshock 1. It is pretty clear that both games exist in the same canon universe (while 2 is still up in the air). I'm pretty sure the developers were aware of this "odd" occurrence when this poster was made explicit:
http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/145306/2013/03/Screenshot_-_10_10_2008__7_49_45_PM.png
! Why they had Booker activate it while Elizabeth could have gotten away by saying "oh my god powers did it" is beyond me. The way I see it, this phenomenon is a relevant plot hole that is not fully explored. Otherwise, why include this poster at all as a reminder?! You kind of skipped right past my genetic ball park explanation, huh? That was my main reason.
! Plus, they don't take place in the same universe, cannon or otherwise! That's the entire point of the game! There's any number of explanations as to why he could activate it. Hell, even Sander Cohen was able to activate it to bring it to you after you complete his level.
! In this other universe, it's possible that Booker never existed as we knew him, and his genetic line lived in Russia.
! Anything is possible. That's the whole point of the game! -
@Nex:
! You kind of skipped right past my genetic ball park explanation, huh? That was my main reason.
! Plus, they don't take place in the same universe, cannon or otherwise! That's the entire point of the game! There's any number of explanations as to why he could activate it. Hell, even Sander Cohen was able to activate it to bring it to you after you complete his level.
! In this other universe, it's possible that Booker never existed as we knew him, and his genetic line lived in Russia.
! Anything is possible. That's the whole point of the game!! So pretty much give up trying to figure it out and just leave that "potential" plothole as a convenient aspect of the overarching theme of the game? Well…that's convenient.
Regarding Booker's DNA being tied with Ryans since there MIGHT be an alternate DeWitt with the same genetic structure born in Russia? Um...I guess that's a convenient hypothetical explanation too. But were either of these made explicit in the game? Or is this a speculation?
! Also that Sander Cohen thing, I am going to have to check up on that. Otherwise, you just pointed out a plothole within Bioshock 1 I must have overlooked.Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/pomeranianhero
deviantart: http://pomeranianhero.deviantart.com/
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! So pretty much give up trying to figure it out and just leave that "potential" plothole as a convenient aspect of the overarching theme of the game? Well…that's convenient.
Regarding Booker's DNA being tied with Ryans since there MIGHT be an alternate DeWitt with the same genetic structure born in Russia? Um...I guess that's a convenient hypothetical explanation too. But were either of these made explicit in the game? Or is this a speculation?
! Also that Sander Cohen thing, I am going to have to check up on that. Otherwise, you just pointed out a plothole within Bioshock 1 I must have overlooked.Warning: potential mind blowing located at the end of this post. In tonight's insane theory corner, I provide something so insane it might just be true.
! The point is, they didn't include an explicit explanation because they didn't think people would get caught up on it in a negative way. They didn't think anyone would hold it against the game. And, it's not a plot hole, because it has nothing to do with the plot. Not of Infinite anyway.
! Even though, since you are caught up on it, why won't you accept the explanation that Goddess Elizabeth did it? I saw you ask why did they make Booker do it, if that's the case, and that's simple: because Booker had to. Same reason why he opened all the doors, Elizabeth could only lead him to the fountain, she could not make him drink. So to speak. She simply took him to where he needed to go, but he had to choose to enter.
! As for Cohen, when you first meet him he calls the Bathysphere away, and when you finish his quest, he calls it back so you can leave. Here's why he might be able to:
! (The exact quote that specifies how the Bathysphere works:)
"We're putting all the bathyspheres in lockdown until further notice. Ryan had us install some kinda genetic device into the things so only Ryan and his inner circle will be able to use 'em without dispensation. But the boys tell me the keys are pretty unreliable. Sisters, cousins-anybody in the ballpark, genetically, will be able to come and go as they see fit." Pretty unreliable is what they say. In the ballpark is what they say. When it comes to genetics, that's a pretty big ballpark. Plus, it mentions his "inner circle," which would explain how Cohen could use it. That would also include anyone in his genetic ballpark. Or the genetic ballpark of anyone in Ryan's inner circle.
! And you know where Cohen lived before Rapture?? New York. Where did Booker live? New York. Thus, in the insane theory corner tonight, I present to you: Sander Cohen is Booker's grandson. Or some other relative. Who knows. Thus, that is why Booker can use the Bathysphere: he is related to Cohen.
! Did I just blow your minds? Cause I blew mine piecing that load of bull-ogna together. -
[Head explodes] .
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….wait what? :wassat:
Well, I guess I'm happy with that answer. Better than the Elizabeth one.
Tumblr: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/pomeranianhero
deviantart: http://pomeranianhero.deviantart.com/
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….wait what? :wassat:
Well, I guess I'm happy with that answer. Better than the Elizabeth one.
So I have to ask: On a scale from 1 Pomeranians to 10 Pomeranians, how mad are you?
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@The:
So I have to ask: On a scale from 1 Pomeranians to 10 Pomeranians, how mad are you?
About this many:
Aww look at them dance.
@Nex:
…Really? You'll take that over the easier to digest: Elizabeth did it?
Well, I must say that's an interesting stance.
Meh, I prefer a stretched explanation verses a really…I dunno, bland explanation like that. It's like that because Elizabeth willed it. END OF STORY.
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Alright, so I'm kinda late on the game, and here's how I took the ending:
! So basically Elizabeth kills all versions of Comstock that ever existed, and due to that Booker just wakes up to a normal life with Anna, and no Columbia. Like I know the ending could be taken a few different ways, but is that wrong in any way?
Hang in there, Kierkegaard.
