@MagneticMonkey:
Good to see that you actually learned something.
I regret this already.
@MagneticMonkey:
What's the point in making pathetically attempts to kill someone again and again still failing? Even luffy is able to recognise when the opponent is too strong. Remember when luffy bravely said on amazon lily "One day we will defeat you all" with kizarus face in his mind?
What does this have to do with Ace having low ambition? Wouldn't the fact that Ace took so long to give up on Whtiebeard's head indicate great ambition? Luffy has a far greater ambition because he thought about beating some far away strong guys someday opposed to Ace who tried to kill a strong guy who was constantly in the area? I also remember how Luffy just tried to rush by madly against three Admirals. What's the point of pathetically doing that? Are you even keeping track of your arguments or are you just using excuses to bitch about Ace? This is exactly why I didn't want to have a debate with you in the first place.
@MagneticMonkey:
Of course we know all know whitebeard is great. Even with that luffy would have never joined someone else. He would have refused WBs offer.
Actually you don't really know that especially with how Whitebeard keeps commenting on how Luffy is just like Ace. Regardless even if Luffy didn't join, Ace still took a really long time to join so for all you know Luffy's ambition could have been slightly higher meaning it wouldn't have been a 180. At any rate, you can't make any sort of definitive inferences from the the difference of their mindsets.
@MagneticMonkey:
Not really. Why not trying to become greater than WB himself? That's the guts you need to have.
That's what Ace tried to do in the first place. And that's what he was constantly trying to do with all those attacks he made on Whitebeard. You treat Ace like a total pussy who lost all his ambition for deciding to support him. Ace started to like the guy. The ambition he had is still there, it's just being directed towards different channels. And though if he were really, really ambitious, he'd have left the ship, it still doesn't change the fact that he had great ambition that had and still has the potential to grow even further.
@MagneticMonkey:
Who forced Ace to stay on the ship?
From his general attitude and his talk with Thatch, it was clear Whitebeard was forcing him to stay till he decided to join.
@MagneticMonkey:
So we agree that luffy would have never do this. How can you say aces ambition is slightly under luffys one when he clearly stopped whatever he decided to do to concentrate on making someone else the PK?
It could be if Ace had a little more resolve, he wouldn't have accepted Whitebeard's invitation. You can't really tell that. All we know is that Ace was completely against joining and it took a very, very long time for Ace to accept his proposal. You're acting like he gave up his dreams overnight and that he didn't take a long, long time to consider his position.
@MagneticMonkey:
It can probably also mean that he wasn't even interested in becoming the next PK (implying he wants to become as free as possible)? If that's the case why would he sail the GL?The only thing that makes sense to me is that he abandoned his dream to serve WB.
No shit, Sherlock. Quit going off on random tangents. The question is how high Ace's ambition is. Even if he gave up his dream, it doesn't magically decrease his ambition to zero. Like I said he simply directed it towards different channels. I swear if this is the extent of your game, I'm not gonna bother replying next time.
@MagneticMonkey:
But it would be a radical change since so far he never displayed such a high ambition
.
Wanting to become Pirate King, going straight to Whitebeard to try and defeat him, getting his ass kicked over a hundred times despite the strength of his opponent making it being pointless (exactly like Luffy), accepting theSecond Division title opposed to Blackbeard who said he ahd no ambition, wanting to avenge Thatch and protect Whitebeard's honor.
@MagneticMonkey:
When i'm talking about ambition i'm talking about your will to achieve your dreams. The convinction you have that drives you into achieving great things.
Which is exactly what I was talking about. Haki=amount of ambition. It's not a magical power source, it IS ambition. Which doesn't change the fact that a person's ambition can grow whether you accept my Haki example or not.
@MagneticMonkey:
What do you want to argue? That ace is to WB what zoro is to luffy?
If you accept that Zoro has great ambition then you have to accept the same for Ace too.
@MagneticMonkey:
Zoro displayed more strength than Ace when Mihawk defeated him.
Being ready to sacrifice your life for your crew and trying to kill the guy who's much stronger than you whenever the chance you get isn't displaying strength?
@MagneticMonkey:
Ace was a captain of his own crew who lowered his ambitions in order to work for WB. Luffy would have never done something like that. Nor would zoro. It's actually an important aspect.
I'm not arguing that Ace's ambition is as great as Luffy's or Zoro's. I'm arguing that Ace has great ambition and that him suddenly deciding to become Pirate King wouldn't be a complete change from before. Ace has displayed and still displays great ambition. The fact that he set his sights lower doesn't change that.
