Sometimes, Kaizoku fansubs really confuse me when they don't translate the Japanese words. Okay, maybe it's only one word. You know how Luffy always says "Yosh!". Well, I don't understand it. Does anyone know what it means? I think it's just some exclamation.
Untitled
-
-
I think what Luffy says is "yoshi" meaning OK! or all right!
-
It's kind of a general exclamation used a lot in any series. It means like "okay!" and "alright!"
And confusion like this is why I get annoyed when translation groups leave words untranslated for random reasons.
-
Eh, personally, I like it when certain common words are left untransated. Usually KF explains a word they leave untranslated. I learn more Japanese words that way. ^_^
-
I've been wondering about it too, but I figured it was along the lines of "yeah!" or "Right!" or something…
-
I guess it's kind of like a trademark saying for Luffy, (and there are even variations of it, like "Yosha!") like Kenshin's "Oro?" …but then again, Usopp says "Yosh!" too, which ruins my theory. :(
-
It just means "OK!".
-
It just means "All right!" or "kick ass!"
that you're happy about something.
"Dude I just got laid! KICK ASS!"
Like that.
-
Originally posted by Cap'n Carter@Jun 20 2005, 04:06 PM
And confusion like this is why I get annoyed when translation groups leave words untranslated for random reasons.
[snapback]73465[/snapback]Hear, hear!
-
lol, i know how you feel. when i 1st started getting into anime, i saw words like baka and what not all over the place and i had no idea what was going on :wacko:.
-
I'd say it's mostly due to most fansubbers being hardcore anime….er, fans that want to retain every drop and iota of Japanese-ness in whatever show they sub, regardless of how much anyone's going to understand it.
There's really no reason not to translate "baka" other than fanboy/fangirl tendancies.
-
yea that's tru. although i only figured that out way after i got into anime, ah good times :D.
-
Maybe it's just me, but I really, honestly, enjoy some words being left untranslated. I don't think it's some big fangirl thing.
-
it best to keep certain jap slang in cause they have to retain the jap language some how. its kinda fun to see the characters use these slang. Yosh should be something like all right! or i did it. infact , it can have many meanings to it ^^
-
There's no need to leave the translatable untranslated, save fanpeopleisms. Baka HAS an english equivalent, so there's no need to leave it "baka". None. Plus, when you show it to friends, there's that annoying have-to-explain-what-these-words-mean-because-the-subber-likes-Japan-whole-bunches thing. That gets annoying after the 500th "baka means idiot" "yosh means 'all right!" rap.
If there's no rhyme or reason, and it just causes problems, there's no need for it. That's always been my biggest problem with KF–ever since that one episode, they started doing that crap. At least the Captain Kuro arc was fine and translated...
-
Nothing wrong with leaving some common words untranslated. You can usually insinuate the meaning or approximation of a word by the character's usage, and their tone/expression. And heck, you can usually tell by the translated words around it as well.
Even before I knew any japanese at all, I never had any problems figuring out what an untranslated word was just by the context it was used in… barring attack names and rare words that may not come up much. And I'm pretty sure there isn't anything special about me.
Leaving common words like "baka" alone does not make the subbers "fanboy/girls", nor "hardcore". That's a foolish generalization in my opinion. To some of us who watch, it adds a bit of flavour, and some subbers take that into account.
And if you can't figure something out... well, the web's huge... you can look it up.
Oh, and if you don't like how a translation group is doing something, you could always do it yourself =)
-
No matter how you defend it, the reasoning is still near non-existant. There's no rhyme or reason to leaving things untranslated. You figured it out? Hoo-rah. Good for you. However, for the folks who don't figure it out, it's just confusing, and depletes the overall experience of watching a sub. It's not considerate to the casual anime fan who watches a sub because there is no dub, or because the dub sucks.
There's a reason that professional subtitlers leave no word untranslated. If you're going to translate something, why even do something like that in the first place? Plus, it's just not curteous, and only panders to a niche group of hardcore anime fans that know these words, and/or use them amoungst each other.
-
Well then! It's a good thing K-F's not a professional subbing group! Thank god. If they were, we could look forward to professionally done typoes and mistranslations, all in 100% english. As you said, hoo-rah.
And you don't have to be a jerk about it either. Everyone has their preferences, your opinion is not the be-all end-all way things should be. Some of us like having japanese words in our anime. Some of us like to learn the occasional words as we watch. Clearly, you are not one of these people, but I think you're out of line to complain so harshly… especially when the people you're targetting are subbers who do their subbing for free, as opposed to these "professional" subbers who make money.
K-F does a fine job, and wether or not they leave a word untranslated here and there is their purogative. They're doing these subs for free, and for their amusement, if you can't respect that.. well, that's fine, but you don't need to bash them, or those of us who DO appreciate and enjoy the work. Not considerate to the casual anime fan? Please.. the fact that they spend so much time working on this stuff is plenty of consideration, why can't they enjoy themselves while they do it?
And wether or not you feel my reasoning behind defending it is existant or not is completely irrelevant. I choose to defend it because I'm one of the folks who likes to see the occasional Japanese word in my subs... wether I know what it is immediately or not.
-
Are you incredibly sensitive or something? I said something they do bugs me, and that means I'm bashing them? Wierd interpretation, that. And how I'm being a "jerk about it" is confusing as well, especially paired up with your sarcasm. My complaints have been FAR from "harsh".
It may be K-F's purogative to leave words untranslated, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Especially when they leave an attack's japanese name at the bottom, yet still translate it in black at the top, causing an annoying attention shift that makes one wonder "why not just put the translation on the bottom like before?!" K-F does a good job, but it's a far from perfect job. Whether or not THEY'Re enjoying it, to quote David Spade from Joe Dirt; "it's not what YOU like, it's the consumer." As I said before, leaving it untraslated simply panders to a niche group, and prevents larger appeal. If I were to try to get a casual anime fan into One Piece by, hypothetically, showing them an episode subbed by K-F post-yosh, I can guarantee you they wouldn't be enjoying the untranslated words at all. Translating everything is far less likely to bug folks than leaving words Japanese.
Some people just want to watch a show, and enjoy it. They don't want a Japanese lesson. I, for instance, never plan to use the Japanese language any time soon, so I'm certainly not pulling up an anime episode, rubbing my hands together, eagerly anticipating a foreign language class with moving pictures. It becomes especially alienating when terms such as nee-san, jii-chan, etc. are left as-is. Plus it can be just plain annoying.
Not only that, but it can really take a viewer out of the experience when they have to pause the movie to check the translation note for a word that could've just been translated normally. I can understand the translation given to a proper name (i.e. the names of Zoro's swords), or a word with no english counterpart (i.e. the term for someone who challenges a dojo). But, there's so many times when it's just not necissary. So many times have I seen something like a translation note that said a word meant something like "six sword style", and wondered, "why didn't they just put 'six sword style' at the bottom?!"
-
_Originally posted by Captain Shmeckie+Jun 21 2005, 03:17 AM–>QUOTE(Captain Shmeckie @ Jun 21 2005, 03:17 AM)Are you incredibly sensitive or something? I said something they do bugs me, and that means I'm bashing them? Wierd interpretation, that. And how I'm being a "jerk about it" is confusing as well, especially paired up with your sarcasm. My complaints have been FAR from "harsh".
You're not just saying it "bugs you", you're saying that subbers that leave in japanese words are hardcore fanboys/girls. That's not exactly a friendly or nice generalization. Yes, that' seems a little bashy to me, that IS my interpretation.
My sarcasm was in response to your little snipe where you said "You figured it out? Hoo-rah. Good for you." That was uncalled for, and, yes, a jerk-like thing to do. No, I'm not "incredibly sensitive", but I know when I'm being insulted. =P If you meant sarcasm other than that, well, I don't know what you mean, I've been totally serious otherwise.
**I'd say it's mostly due to most fansubbers being hardcore anime….er, fans that want to retain every drop and iota of Japanese-ness in whatever show they sub, regardless of how much anyone's going to understand it.
There's really no reason not to translate "baka" other than fanboy/fangirl tendancies.**
That bull right there is what I mean. That's a blanket geralization that's somewhat insulting. You don't know that this is the only reason subbers do that… why say it?_
-
Apparently there's less complaints because complaining makes you an insulting basher. The things you're taking offense to are rather baffling.
Having said that, even Zoro's material is debatable, due to its traditional Japanese basis. However, changing "Axe" to "Ono" accomplishes little-to-nothing, and just drags down the experience. While YOU may prefer it, and while I can't stand it, the fact remains that it alienates more people than a full translation would, and, again, it's just not considerate to people who don't want a Japanese lesson in thier subtitles where it's not needed.
-
Originally posted by Captain Shmeckie@Jun 21 2005, 03:49 AM
Apparently there's less complaints because complaining makes you an insulting basher. The things you're taking offense to are rather baffling.
[snapback]73809[/snapback]And apparently my taking any sort of offense at all at some of what you've said makes me over-sensative. I guess we're even.
There nicer are ways to express that you don't like something. Maybe other folks would have better luck at it than you seem to.
"I don't like that some subbers don't translate everything, it would be better if they did" - Fine, nothing wrong there.
"Subbers that don't translate everything are hardcore anime fanboys/fangirls." - Rude, and I'm sorry if you can't see or understand why, but it's late, and I'm done with this.
If you have anything further you'd like to say, feel free to PM me, but this argument is pretty much done. We don't agree, that's all there is to it.
-
Simple, if you want a completely translated episode with no japanese language in it.
1.Sub it yourself, japanese free.
2.Watch the 4Kids Version. Its 100% English
3.Buy the uncut version of One Piece with subtitles, 100% Subbed English
4.Find another subber to do the job for you.Note:K-F is already good enough for giving us High Quality episodes. They work at it for free and one shouldn't hit them for not fully translating Japanese terms. In fact, majority of the viewers who are K-F downloaders do not mind these terms. Please accept the fact that the Jap terms will always be around and get used to it. If you do not like it, you could always try the above methods. I as an example have never understood Japanese. But I don't mind at all. Cause you CAN guess the meaning of the word between the conversations as some words are DAMN understandable. For attack names, if its new. K-F translated it for the sake of the people once. But leave it as it is. If i'm not wrong, they mentioned something about these jap terms remaining in their sub during the Arlong Park Arc. So do not complain mate. K-F said it all.
Could someone help by telling me which episode it was?
-
KF has their explination at the beginning of episode 38.
i like the fact that they changed and now leave in some japanese. i think they give it a better feel and even if i do not understand a word i can usually guess what it means by the context of the sentence around it and if that doesnt work you can always look up top. i have introduced 4 of my friends only on of which was a anime fan (and none of us know japanese) and i have not had to explain a word or whats going on to any of them. i like the fact that they decided to add in some japanese words and hope they continue to do so -
I for one like the use of the word 'Yosh' as well as other untranslated words. For me it pretty obviously means alright if you just listen to the context it's said in. There are other words too that just don't make sense to translate. If you want to translate Luffy's attacks, then it would also be proper to change 'Gomu Gomu no' into 'Gum Gum' or 'Rubber Rubber' which sounds pretty stupid to me, especially when its obvious what he is really saying. Also leaving a word like 'nakama' untranslated makes sense to me. While it is similar to friend, it is not the same word, and 'nakama' is a central point to the series.
I don't mind K-F's leaving untranslated .25% of their subs (this number is probably a huge overestimation) if it's to retain some sort of feeling. They also don't have to do this for the consumer, as their profits are the same with a million downloads or none. I guess I find it pointless to complian about a free service when the only thing that matters is if the people providing that service are happy with what they're doing.
-
But there's nothing that could possibly be gained from using, say, Jii-san in the subtitles, especially because it has an english equivalent that detracts nothing if it's translated. It becomes ESPECIALLY irritating when you find out WHAT it means, and then you find out it would've been exactly the same had it been translated. Nothing lost. SO what was gained? Absolutely nothing, save giving some hardcore fanboy or fangirl a new word to use along with the 8 other Japanese words they know and use in regular conversation. That's it. Aside from the untranslatable, there's no other reason not to translate something in a sub, save to pander. At least they stopped translating nakama due to the fact they believed something was lost when it was translated (though commrade was working just fine, but whatever).
The anime fandom may like a little baka in their subs, but for those who just like anime, and don't want their subs yosh'ed and baka'ed, it's just plain irritating. I may not like it, and you may like it, but that's beside my point. My point is that, as I've said before, it simply panders to a niche, and alienates others, even losing potential fans (because I know, for a fact, that "yosh"ing a sub does, indeed, turn many off subtitles). Some people aren't willing to get a Japanese lesson in their entertainment. Does that make them less worthy to watch anime or something? Hardly.
And what's with this "not allowed to complain" mentality? I'm a consumer; I'm allowed to complain. Whether or not they do it for free is irrelevant; if they do something irritating, I have the right to be irritated. I'm not a hardcore anime fan, so elements appealing to them aren't coming close to appealing to me, or any other anime fan lacking the title of "hardcore". And I can tell you K-F's decision to go the pandering route is not as popular as you would think. God knows how many warnings I got by One Piece fans when I started getting into the show about the "nakama crap", as they called it. And, when you hear someone tell you a subbing group is going to "stop translating" things, it comes off as very… confusing, to say the least.
K-F does a good job, I never said they didn't (though some people seemed to jump on the "you're bashing KF!!!!!!!!" conclusion, but whatever), but the decision to stop translating certain words was hardly a good one, especially due to the lack of reasoning behind most of it, and how much of it (read: attack names being translated at the top, but left Japanese at the bottom) is just redundant.
-
Man. Deja vu. I remember this exact same discussion just a little while ago, only with it being about manga translations.
I'll just restate what I said then, though. I agree 100% with Cap'n Shmeckie here.
I can stand exceptions; especially if the case is a very thoroughly Japanese anime or manga. In such a case, like Rurouni Kenshin maybe, leaving some things untranslated (with footnotes) could help in keeping the overall feel of the culture intact.
But frankly, only a few aspects of the One Piece universe are distinctly Japanese. A completely arbitrary word like ''idiot'' isn't exactly one of them. How would you feel if K-F just suddenly stopped translating completely random words like ''utsukushii'' or ''kokoro''?
I'd bet you'd find it confusing and odd. In fact, I'm almost certain everyone'd be annoyed to some extent.
''Baka'' is a word just as random as those, yet here people are all okay with it. You can pull up any reason you like, but the main reason for that is simply because it's a Japanese word that has firmly infiltrated anime fandom cliques these days. A lot of people are already familiar with it.
A word like ''baka'' doesn't more accurately portray One Piece as it was meant to be. It's not educational in the slightest, especially if it gets hammered in through all of the series. It's confusing to people not familiar with the word and it looks utterly out of place in an English sentence.
So what reason remains for leaving it untranslated? It's ''hip'' among anime fans to do so. Honestly, no matter how hard I look I just can't find any other reason, let alone one that makes sense.
And frankly, when you come to leaving words untranslated because you think it looks cool, doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of a ''translation''?
-
I for one agree with the sentiment that random Japanese in fansubs looks rather sloppy, if nothing else. A TRANSLATION should be just that. It simply reeks of laziness when things that can be translated are left in Japanese. This is why I feel it's important for translators to be skilled not only in the language they're translating FROM, but also the language they're translating TO. Even words with double meanings don't need to be left in Japanese. Translate the word as appropriate to the context. The purpose of a translation is to convey MEANING, not to transfer every word individually. I appreciate K-F for what they do, but I can't really say they do a "good job" either when their work looks poor compared to others.
Well, that's my buck and a half, anyway.
-
As for "leaving in Japanese words to leanr Japanese" well… I've learned plenty of Japanese from fully translated subs. That's how I learned "yosh!" and several other phrases. You have ears, you know.
I remember when I saw that one episode where KF said they'd leave "nakama" and whatever the word for "tangerine" is untranslated. I mean, I could maybe understand "nakama," but leaving "tangerina" untranslated is pretty retarded.
I pretty much sahre the same sentiments as Schmeckie, Mog, and Panda.
-
I'd jump the bandwagon, but I'm fine with nakama being untranslated. It's not really lazy, because it's just as long if not longer than whatever you'd translate it to. Now, if a person is saying "nakama" and meaning "friend," then put friend. If "crewmate," then put that. But for things like the scene in Arlong Park, like I said in the 367 thread, being ambiguous isn't a bad thing. It doesn't seem like anyone is absolutely certain with what Luffy meant exactly, so why translate as if they are?
-
You have ears, you know.
Thanks for reminding me. :rolleyes: Stuff sticks better when my eyes aren't focusing on the translation. Plus, it just seems unnecessary to translate something when I know what it means. I must think a totally different way from some of you. The way I see it, it's silly to translate an obvious word.
-
Except that it's NOT obvious to people not in the anime fandom. Ten bucks says if I asked one of my friends who like anime what a "baka" is, only one could answer (because he knows from its usage by fanpeople). If you're translating something from Japanese, translate it.
Besides, these fansubs are for everyone, I would like to think; not just for the anime fans who know what baka means. Mog seems to know the word utsukushii, so should they stop translating that? I mean, it's obvious to him, so according to the logic you've put forth, they sould leave it as is.
And, I agree whole heartedly with the point that it just looks silly and out of place in an English sentence. There's a reason alot of anime fanpeople get wierd looks when they use words like baka and yosh to non-fanpeople.
-
It wasn't my argument, but I think that what she meant was something as obvious as baka, not just a word that could seem obvious. "Baka" is a word very familiar to people "in the anime fandom." And if you're not in the fandom, why watch subtitled anime?
Really though, I only defend "nakama," mainly for consistency issues.
-
I don't even remember the last time we left "baka" in Japanese… I think we did one time Nami kicked Luffy in the face.
Leaving "Yosh" untranslated is meant to make the sub more interactive. Easier to correlate the subs to the audio. Same for the attacks, relate to the audio, enhance the experience. Otherwise I'd say go get a text translation and read them side by side.
It's okay not to like it, but probably the worst thing to do is to chicken fight on this forum that only one member of K-F (me) even looks at. If you don't like it, don't like it. If you want it changed, this isn't the way to do it.
Bash thread closed.