It's right here: http://www.mangareader.net/103-47005-7/one-piece/chapter-574.html
General 'Haki' Discussion
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Thanks, I knew he was cut. Fatal wound to the neck/face, and this situation is most likely similar to the one when Hodi bit Luffy.
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I would say it's more of Akainu's Armor on the defense was stronger then Marco and Vista's Armor on the offense. Like they cut his Logia body, but thanks to the armor, not his true body.
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Exactly. CoA can cancel CoA.
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My haki is stronger than yours.
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And who are those "really really strong fighters"? many belive Iva has haki, yet he hasn't shown anything but theorical knowledge of it for example.
The only thing you need to resist a blast of CoC is to have a very strong will, a trait found in the supernova who where present.
Apparently, that very strong will is also needed to unleash Haki, so Haki and strong will go together. BTW, Aisa has a very strong will, but just had a weak body because she was a young child.
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@Superbear:
Exactly. CoA can cancel CoA.
Or Akainu's Logia mastery is of such a high level that even Haki attacks from medium users (Marco, Vista) couldn't harm him. It needed an enraged haki master (Whitebeard) to do that.
Personally I like that explanation more, since it would reinforce that Devil Fruits can and need to be trained.
- Paramecia's develop new freakish methods of using the fruit (Robin, Luffy, Brook)
- Zoan's might manage to explore new forms instead of the basic 3 (Chopper, Marco)
- Logia's improve their ability to turn into the respective element (like Smoker, who couldn't turn to smoke by reflex in Alabasta, but did during Marinefold)
Certainly more interesting than
My haki is stronger than yours.
:D
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Teach will not use haki, he's too awesome for it.
But the attacks made by Marco and Vista are still impossible to explain by the facts given by Oda, so we'll just have to wait and see.
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how is it impossible to explain? All that Akainu did is dodge the attacks just as Aokiji did when he was partisoned through the stomach. he just turned into his element and dodged the attack before it actually hit him.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-41586-7/one-piece/chapter-567.html
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how is it impossible to explain? All that Akainu did is dodge the attacks just as Aokiji did when he was partisoned through the stomach. he just turned into his element and dodged the attack before it actually hit him.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-41586-7/one-piece/chapter-567.html
So, you mean Aokiji "floated" on Whitebeards Bisento? Because his feet had no contact with the ground, and as far as I know Aokiji can't fly or hover like Smoker or Crocodile?
I think the page you linked explains perfectly that the admirals can't be harmed with the average haki infused attack, else why would Oda let the fodder make comments like that:
Fodder: He got stabbed with Haki!!! He is dead!! Message - > Haki infused attack, supposed to harm/kill him, as the reader would also expect.
Aokiji: Please, don't go spouting nonsense. Message - > Haki attacks won't kill him just like that
At least that is how I understand it.
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the point is that he didn't get stabbed, he opened a hole in his chest to let the partisan go through.
I mean if you look at the page right after he gets hit by Jozu which does indeed hurt him as you see him bleeding. He didn't see this attack coming as he did with Whitebeards attack.
Or are you implying that Jozu's haki is stronger than Whitebeards?
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the point is that he didn't get stabbed, he opened a hole in his chest to let the partisan go through.
I mean if you look at the page right after he gets hit by Jozu which does indeed hurt him as you see him bleeding. He didn't see this attack coming as he did with Whitebeards attack.
Or are you implying that Jozu's haki is stronger than Whitebeards?
I'm saying that while he let the partisan go through his body, he was still "on it" and had direct contact with it.
Maybe you are right and that was indeed how he evaded it, but my impression was that Oda wanted to depict that the admirals give a shit about the average haki-infused attack (if they see them coming).
As to how Jozu could affect him, in another thread I explained how I imagine the system:
Or maybe it is simple logia mastery. Like the final stadium one can reach. My theory:
Level 1: Avoiding normal attacks if you see them coming (Alabasta Smoker)
Level 2: Avoiding normal attacks by reflex (Marinefold Smoker)
Level 3: Avoiding haki attacks by a medium user if you see them coming (Aokiji, Akainu, Kizaru)Haki masters can injure even a level 3 user (enraged Whitebeard for example)
I mean it would make sense, Logia's can train their intangibility, while haki can be trained to force them back into solidity. If both abilities are equally powerful, nothing happens except a little discomfort for the logia (as Akainu stated).
Of course the Admirals could have used their own Haki somehow, but I don't see a connection to the armor type. Vista and Marco sliced Akainu up without any resistance, no "invisible" armor blocking anything, it went straight through.
My guess is that Luffy will soon demonstrate his "medium haki" on Caribou, a level 1 logia. Smoker will be the first to avoid his medium haki, and in the end he will reach a Shanks-like level to overpower anyone.
Don't take the level thing too serious, I don't think that there are set stages, but it helps to illustrate my point.
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Have you guys even thought that maybe WB didn't use haki when he stabbed Aokiji?
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I'm saying that while he let the partisan go through his body, he was still "on it" and had direct contact with it.
Maybe you are right and that was indeed how he evaded it, but my impression was that Oda wanted to depict that the admirals give a shit about the average haki-infused attack (if they see them coming).
As to how Jozu could affect him, in another thread I explained how I imagine the system:
Don't take the level thing too seriously, I don't think that there are set stages, but it helps to illustrate my point.
It would seem weird to show that they dont care about some tier of haki attacks when he didnt even have haki introduced by reyliegh then. Also, It wasnt just some haki fodder from AL. It was WB. The much more likely explanation is that Oda was just trying to show that just having haki doesnt mean you can beat an admiral….heck or even touch them.
Have you guys even thought that maybe WB didn't use haki when he stabbed Aokiji?
Well people said he used Haki as well as the fact that it was WB stabbing an admiral…...what sense would it make for him to knowingly stab a logia without haki?
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Have you guys even thought that maybe WB didn't use haki when he stabbed Aokiji?
I did, but then I remembered that Whitebeard fought for the life of his second division commander and was seeing his fellow crew members die left and right.
I doubt he was holding back at any point during the war, especially not against the marine's top 3.
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Whitebeard not using Haki in that scene is so counter-intuitive it's almost painful to see someone suggest it. Really? Aokiji didn't do a thing to evade the damage he was just lucky that Whitebeard didn't use his Haki at all?
This is what I mean with some people here going too far with trying to avoid seeing Haki in scenes.
What I think is that Whitebeard's Haki was weakened during a large part of the war and that's why the Admirals were able to evade his blows. They probably have an instinctual defense against Haki attacks, whether that's through DF mastery or Haki of their own. It fits very well with them being the ultimate Logia users, those who pack not only the fearsome abilities of the fruit but have also trained themselves to near-perfection in every other field of combat to do justice to their incredibly grand title of "World Government's Ultimate Military Power" (or your preferred variation thereof). Oda was DEFINITELY reinforcing as hard as he could the point that just because you can utilize CoA Haki doesn't mean you can even lay a hand on the Admirals. They're just that good.
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Or Akainu's Logia mastery is of such a high level that even Haki attacks from medium users (Marco, Vista) couldn't harm him. It needed an enraged haki master (Whitebeard) to do that.
Personally I like that explanation more, since it would reinforce that Devil Fruits can and need to be trained.
- Paramecia's develop new freakish methods of using the fruit (Robin, Luffy, Brook)
- Zoan's might manage to explore new forms instead of the basic 3 (Chopper, Marco)
- Logia's improve their ability to turn into the respective element (like Smoker, who couldn't turn to smoke by reflex in Alabasta, but did during Marinefold)
Certainly more interesting than
:D
But wouldn't that defeat your point? Your going against the "my Haki is stronger than yours" thing but your insinuating rage gives a Haki user a power boost. I'm confused by this. Also Vista is a very highly regarded swordsmen, I remember Mihawk being a bit unsettled by his presence. Any way this is what i think is happening when a Haki user hits a haki using Logia
Shield/CoA + Sword/ CoA= Logia coming out unharmed.
As for Akainu vs Whitebeard , I think Akainu was reckless, or just scared shitless. It was also stated Vice Admirals and up have Haki.
As to approach your logia improvement theory, I agree that changing states on reflex is a part of mastering your ability. Another sign of being adept in one's ability could be the extra bits a few logias can do, like Crocodile's dehydration, or Smoker's density control.
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As I see it, Aokiji didn't get stabbed by WB, he DODGED it. If you guys take a look at the pic carefully, you'll see that the bisento actually stabbed the empty space between his torso and left arm. Aokiji said, "Don't be ridiculous" means he's saying, as an admiral, he wouldn't get stabbed so easily. He knows WB had Haki, so he wouldn't be reckless. And he has Haki too, you know, and that means he has CoO to predict WB's attack, and he's not as slow as not to be able to dodge it.
Right after that he became ice and wrapped the bisento with his body. I think the reason why Aokiji didn't dodge it completely was because he wanted to hold the bisento (by wrapping it with his ice body) so he could freely attack WB with his hands. But Aokiji forgot that Jozu was around.
And about Akainu, I had a theory somewhere in this thread, that Vista wasn't using haki when striking Akainu (it is debatable, but I believe that at least Vista wasn't a proficient Haki user, if he is a haki user at all).
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@Superbear:
But wouldn't that defeat your point? Your going against the "my Haki is stronger than yours" thing but your insinuating rage gives a Haki user a power boost. I'm confused by this.
I just don't like the "my haki is stronger than yours" thing as an explanation why the admirals could avoid WB & commanders attacks, or lets say I prefer the logia mastery (because it would add flavor to another aspect of the series instead of just haki vs haki). The theory haki/haki itself is perfectly possible tho.
Whatever, concerning Whitebeard: I think we can agree that there are different levels of haki users, and that emotions influence its power (or that there is at least a connection of sorts). My impression was that WB's haki wasn't strong enough during most of the war, either because of his sickness/old age (as Coruscation said) or because he simply had to deal with freaking admirals.
Only at the end, after Ace died, WB took his last stand and obliterated Akainu with his rage enhanced haki.
However,
@Superbear:
As for Akainu vs Whitebeard , I think Akainu was reckless, or just scared shitless
this sounds believable too. We know haki needs concentration, I think Enel lost his Mantra during the fight with Luffy for a brief moment - it could be the same case with Akainu here, who knows.
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It's probably asked or mentioned somewhere, but I'm going to be lazy and not sift through the past 165 pages.
Do you think Zoro and Sanji could be Haki users? They were training directly under the big shots, Ivankov and Mihawk.
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It's probably asked or mentioned somewhere, but I'm going to be lazy and not sift through the past 165 pages.
Do you think Zoro and Sanji could be Haki users? They were training directly under the big shots, Ivankov and Mihawk.
You could at least read the past 2 or 3 pages, there you'll have exactly this argument going on. So please - don't be THIS lazy.
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Now now Juvar, he is a newbie…
It's probably asked or mentioned somewhere, but I'm going to be lazy and not sift through the past 165 pages.
Do you think Zoro and Sanji could be Haki users? They were training directly under the big shots, Ivankov and Mihawk.
Dearie, there is a feature at the top right of every thread that allows you to search the thread, thus avoiding having to read every single post. Its not perfect, but I think it would help you with this.
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@I:
Now now Juvar, he is a newbie…
Dearie, there is a feature at the top right of every thread that allows you to search the thread, thus avoiding having to read every single post. Its not perfect, but I think it would help you with this.Oh BC - newbies are rarer then Hens Teeth, especially with such a loaded baited up comment.
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Oh BC - newbies are rarer then Hens Teeth, especially with such a loaded baited up comment.
LOL Cym–are you by chance questioning this poster's newbie status? How shocking...
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@I:
LOL Cym–are you by chance questioning this poster's newbie status? How shocking...
It's not my fault - when I see posts like that I am all
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Come on BC I was being as polite as one would expect in this situation ;)
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How is it difficult to understand that logia can open holes themselves at will?
Aokiji saw the bisento, made it go through him, and grabed the weapon. .-. Pure reflexes. But obviously if you can protect your skin with haki so that the oponents won't reach you, it won't kill you. But that wouldn't make a hole through your chest. -
Wasn't really trying to troll… I mean the topic is 165 pages, it's not exactly easy to jump into the discussion with a question that might've been answered.
But thanks about the tip on the search feature, I'll definitely be using that from now on
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Wasn't really trying to troll… I mean the topic is 165 pages, it's not exactly easy to jump into the discussion with a question that might've been answered.
But thanks about the tip on the search feature, I'll definitely be using that from now on
My pleasure dear–and enjoy the forums. (Cym and Juvar are good people, just a tad cynical at times--with reason it must be admitted... So for this moment, ignore that bit.)
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@I:
My pleasure dear–and enjoy the forums. (Cym and Juvar are good people, just a tad cynical at times--with reason it must be admitted... So for this moment, ignore that bit.)
BC, you just lighten up any thread. Did we mention how much we love you for that?
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I accuse you, sir, of blatant flattery, but thank you. That was sweet of you.
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I noticed this forum is full of sarcastic, kind of agressive (to newbs), good people ^^.
Still in the Haki, I have something annoying me. King's Haki. Its suposed to be that godamn wonderful thing, but till now, its only a fooder stopper. Not really something that useful (In the point that, despite taking more time, they could have killed those 50,000 easily.
So I think there is something we still don't know about this power.
Cause obviously Luffy won't like reach the final boss, say FUS RO DAH (sorry, skyrim fever got me) and kill him. Thats why I think there should be something different to this.
Now I'll start the discussion with this silly and totally not serious prediction (its just something that crossed my mind):- Asura=Kewl way of using Haoshoku Haki
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@gotta<3OP:
Asura=Kewl way of using Haoshoku Haki
WHOA! you're taking a sever risk there dude.
Btw, a common trait of those that have CoC is that they are natural leaders who are (somewhat) destined to accomplish many feats. But yeah, maybe there's more to CoC than being a "fodder cleaner".
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LOL–Its been a long time since I've trotted out my own pet theory about what KingBition might have behind it other than knocking out the fodder, but I'm happy to give it a dusting off real quick--All that remains is the standard caveat; I may forget some details, so if there are holes, point them out and I may be able to fill them in. Finally I offer an apology if this is a retread for anyone:
In its shortest form, I think there's a chance, slim though it may be, that masters of HH have the ability to manipulate physical objects, and as proof I offer two scenes;
One, the scene where Shanks boards WBs ship, and we see the actual boards that make up the railings bend as he enters, along with weak willed crewmates passing out. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-5/one-piece/chapter-434.html
Two–the scene at the auction house in SA where Rayleigh unlocks Camie's collar with some sort intangible ability before it blows up. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2611-9/one-piece/chapter-504.html -
@I:
In its shortest form, I think there's a chance, slim though it may be, that masters of HH have the ability to manipulate physical objects, and as proof I offer two scenes;
One, the scene where Shanks boards WBs ship, and we see the actual boards that make up the railings bend as he enters, along with weak willed crewmates passing out. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-5/one-piece/chapter-434.html
Two–the scene at the auction house in SA where Rayleigh unlocks Camie's collar with some sort intangible ability before it blows up. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2611-9/one-piece/chapter-504.htmlThis idea does give a great point, especially with scene 1, however, the second scene I think is just Rayleigh moving at such inhuman speeds the collar doesn't register it's been snapped off until it's a good enough distance away that when it blows up it doesn't harm the person previously wearing it. The waiting was either for suspense or because the closer to detenation, the more efficient removing the collar is. As well, it could be that right when the collar goes to blow up, it opens, thus releasing an explosion, and he snatches the collar off their necks right as it all happens (possible mastery of CoO goes beyond reading just people, hence how he knew when to rip the collar off.)
Those are my theories though, they could be completely wrong.
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@I:
My pleasure dear–and enjoy the forums. (Cym and Juvar are good people, just a tad cynical at times--with reason it must be admitted... So for this moment, ignore that bit.)
Love it how I am being classified :ninja:
EDIT: Why ignore it? You'll come to
hatelove that about me <3BC, you just lighten up any thread. Did we mention how much we love you for that?
Yes. You're definitely the kindest person on this forum, BC, and we all love you for that..
I'm being absolutely serious with this, not sarcastic!@I:
LOL–Its been a long time since I've trotted out my own pet theory about what KingBition might have behind it other than knocking out the fodder, but I'm happy to give it a dusting off real quick–All that remains is the standard caveat; I may forget some details, so if there are holes, point them out and I may be able to fill them in. Finally I offer an apology if this is a retread for anyone:
In its shortest form, I think there's a chance, slim though it may be, that masters of HH have the ability to manipulate physical objects, and as proof I offer two scenes;
One, the scene where Shanks boards WBs ship, and we see the actual boards that make up the railings bend as he enters, along with weak willed crewmates passing out. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-5/one-piece/chapter-434.html
Two–the scene at the auction house in SA where Rayleigh unlocks Camie's collar with some sort intangible ability before it blows up. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2611-9/one-piece/chapter-504.htmlWell, I don't want to argue with that theory too much, but my personal thoughts on scene 2 were that it was actually Armament Haki that he used… To contain the explosion in a very small area so it wouldn't reach anything, then throwing it away. Basically. Also explains why he had to wait until it actually happened.
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Haoshoku used to control non-livings.HMMM. INB4 Doflamingo uses haoshoku, and not his ability, to control people. And the threads are Busoushoku filaments :ninja:
Haoshoku is definitly a wild card in the Haki scene. We know its really powerful, but what they've shown us does not prove it. (In real life it would be real hax, but here(in the op world) it does not grant you shit.)
Well, non livings I don't know. But using it to control people's feelings and emotions seems like quite a good idea.
And by this I mean making people love you (Just imagine how hax would Boa be), inflicting a great fear, and so on.
And I'm not talking about concrete things, like hypnosis. I'm talking about inducing feelings in the oponent, for a short period of time. -
is the "power to hear all things" that roger had discution over after this chapter?
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Nah–just starting more like. There's more questions raised than answered IMHO.
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HH is like a the warriors spirit in some mangas that paralyses the opponent for short duration enough to finish them off even the strongest ones (if caught off guard) so i guess a HH user would be able to induce a state of paralysis for like a second or two then in that moment deal great damage.I thought that is why its dangerous. But even the marine ford war arc they didn't show any good haki fights (oda is an asshole hiding haki so well)
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I think that KingBition might be trained to be targeted at fewer people with amplified strength. As in it might be possible to deal a blow to a strong willed person if said person is the only target.
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Here a theory of mine on the true abilities of kings haki
True abilities of Kings haki We already know CoC haki can be used to
1.Mindblast-.This is is the ability to blast ones mind with fear.This ability can be used on a small scale or large scale.The effects range from making the person pass out in terror or simply mentally **** scared.However this ability can be countered with a strong enough will
I howver supect with more power it can be used for the following**2.Bodyblast:**CoC haki is power of intimidation.Sometimes fear can affect your body irrespective of your mind.Thats what Body blast is.Its simply blasting ones body not mind with fear.It can can only be used on a very,very small scale(1-10 people at once) and its difficult to use.The effect of the Bodyblast is to inhibit anothers motor functions-could range from pararylsis to slowed down/sluggish movements.This ability is hard to resist and can only be resisted with Kings haki or an enormous physical stregth.
Since CoC haki is the haki of hakis it is possible it can be used to influence the haki of others.Ways it could do so include
3.Temporaily Suppress the power of haki in others.
4.Temporaily boost the power of haki in others and oneself. -
@I:
LOL–Its been a long time since I've trotted out my own pet theory about what KingBition might have behind it other than knocking out the fodder, but I'm happy to give it a dusting off real quick--All that remains is the standard caveat; I may forget some details, so if there are holes, point them out and I may be able to fill them in. Finally I offer an apology if this is a retread for anyone:
In its shortest form, I think there's a chance, slim though it may be, that masters of HH have the ability to manipulate physical objects, and as proof I offer two scenes;
One, the scene where Shanks boards WBs ship, and we see the actual boards that make up the railings bend as he enters, along with weak willed crewmates passing out. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-5/one-piece/chapter-434.html
Two–the scene at the auction house in SA where Rayleigh unlocks Camie's collar with some sort intangible ability before it blows up. http://www.mangareader.net/103-2611-9/one-piece/chapter-504.htmlI've always thought there was more to it, however I don't think the collar thing was Conquerors Ambition. I think that might have just been Rayleigh throwing it faster than the time it takes to detonate.
While I have been against people saying Zoro cutting steel might be Observation Ambition, I do think that Ashura may be Conquerors. I'm far from one of those people that needs to add this to everything, such as Sanji's Diable Jambe and such. However the only form of illusions we've seen has been through Brook's music, so I'm wondering if Conquerors Ambition may have much more to it.
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Lol, Haki.
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How I see what happened with WhitebeardVs Aojiki,and marco/vista Vs Akainu is:
When a Logia that has very powerful armaments haki is stabbed/attacked with a blade that had weaker armaments infused into it,the attack won't effects the logia users normal body,but through his element body.I guess like :Powerful armrants can nullify/cancel-out weaker armaments
Whitebeards armamnts was very weak cause he was sick and weakenening,and Admirals have like,maxed out-stats,so even by whitebeard/Aojiki had stronger haki then Whitebeard,and it passed through his ice body.
And with Akainu, Both Vista and Marco's comboed armamnets is still weaker then Akainu's armaments.
When Luffy was running up the execution platform,And Kizaru was trying to shoot him,Whitebeard slashes Kizaru,but Kizaru 'breaks-up' into light,then reforms.So just using haki(whitebeard)was enough to keep Kizaru on the defensive.
And when ray was fighting Kizaru,ray was able to cut Kizaru's face and make him bleed :O Cause ray's araments is equal to,or probably even better,then an admirals.
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Here a theory of mine on the true abilities of kings haki
True abilities of Kings haki We already know CoC haki can be used to
1.Mindblast-.This is is the ability to blast ones mind with fear.This ability can be used on a small scale or large scale.The effects range from making the person pass out in terror or simply mentally **** scared.However this ability can be countered with a strong enough will
I howver supect with more power it can be used for the following**2.Bodyblast:**CoC haki is power of intimidation.Sometimes fear can affect your body irrespective of your mind.Thats what Body blast is.Its simply blasting ones body not mind with fear.It can can only be used on a very,very small scale(1-10 people at once) and its difficult to use.The effect of the Bodyblast is to inhibit anothers motor functions-could range from pararylsis to slowed down/sluggish movements.This ability is hard to resist and can only be resisted with Kings haki or an enormous physical stregth.
Since CoC haki is the haki of hakis it is possible it can be used to influence the haki of others.Ways it could do so include
3.Temporaily Suppress the power of haki in others.
4.Temporaily boost the power of haki in others and oneself.Lol, you play too much RPG's
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So, let's try and get a consensus in here:
Zoro's Breath of All things is most likely an advanced form of the Color of Observation mixed with the Color of Armor. Truth or Fiction?
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Why is CoA added in that???
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Why is CoA added in that???
It's use allows him to cut the real body of devil fruit users.
Edit: Oh wait, no it doesn't. Well, cutting steel seems to be more than just sword skills to me.
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So, let's try and get a consensus in here:
Zoro's Breath of All things is most likely an advanced form of the Color of Observation mixed with the Color of Armor. Truth or Fiction?
It's a fictional manga.