Ryuuma's Sword

Rosé

Manga. but I imagine it should have been in the anime as well.

And you have really twisted what was said on that wikipedia page in your post. how did "up to" turn into "only"?

And wehere does it say he has an inpenetrable defense so that Zoro must first nullify his powers? To me it just looks like you made that up on your own.

Yes Zoro can cut metal. But to do so he must hear its breath. He did not expect Kuma to be made out of metal so did he actually listen for its breath?

Was it ever said Kuma was made out of some other metal then steel? or is that just an assumption?
And can someone explain to me why Zoro would need to be able to cut intangible elements to be able to cut a metal stronger then steel?

A sword made out of something stronger then diamond? guess what? steel counts as stronger in a way… Diamonds are hard but at the same time brittle compared to steel. It is a lot easier to smash a diamond then to scratch it. most likely a sword made out of something harder then diamond will be very brittle.

Nope, no self-harming.
Hwah?
:wassat:
Oh wait, sorry.

I've been through this almost four times now, I've posted the page where it was stated that Kuma was made of a superior material, or something of the likes.
Please, do explain to me just how one can hit something that will deflect you, unless you're above the speed of light?
Because, as you said yourself, they've only shown that Kuma can reflect with his palms….maybe not only with his palms?
Please stop implying that I'm making things up, everything you're wanting me to explain has been explained a few pages before. Now right now, I'm neither in the mood for taking up that line of thought again, and I'm tired.
Pause for now?
And no, that doesn't mean I have no arguments, it means that I'm no goddamn robot.

Neomaster121

yea dimonds r strong like that as they are connected by a network of covalent bonds this network is wat makes it hard to cut

graphite from pencils are easier as these covalent bonds are layed upon each other

Gorlom

@Rosé:

Nope, no self-harming.
Hwah?
:wassat:
Oh wait, sorry.

I've been through this almost four times now, I've posted the page where it was stated that Kuma was made of a superior material, or something of the likes.

post it again (or direct me to the post where you posted it) I obviously missed it. I'v skipped any posts you've made that wasn't directly answering me as you seemed to be discussing splitting the sky or something which i find utterly irrelevant to any and all arguments.

Please, do explain to me just how one can hit something that will deflect you, unless you're above the speed of light? Because, as you said yourself, they've only shown that Kuma can reflect with his palms….maybe not only with his palms?

First of all why would speed off light make a difference? Secondly it is only the pads on the palm of his hands that deflect. nothing else as we see when both sanji and zoro hits him in other places. I think Kuma even explains this.

Please stop implying that I'm making things up, everything you're wanting me to explain has been explained a few pages before.

Ok, I'll start saying outright that you are either making it up or misunderstanding what you read.

Now right now, I'm neither in the mood for taking up that line of thought again, and I'm tired.
Pause for now?
And no, that doesn't mean I have no arguments, it means that I'm no goddamn robot. If you want a pause then by all means take one and only answer when you are ready to resume the discussion.

@Neomaster121:

yea dimonds r strong like that as they are connected by a network of covalent bonds this network is wat makes it hard to cut

graphite from pencils are easier as these covalent bonds are layed upon each other

Who are you responding to? and what is your point? almost everyone know its hard to cut diamonds (but it seems it's less known that it's not all to difficult to smash one)

notactuallytom

You guys, cutting elements is impossible. Even if anybody achieves that benchmark, they will die immediately. Why? Because cutting the elements means cutting atoms. Cutting atoms will split the atom apart and then boom. A huge fucking explosion.

Gorlom

Cutting atoms will split the atom apart and then boom. A huge fucking explosion

are you talking about nuclear fission explosions?

Do they not require fissionable material (usually a refined radioactive variant of uranium) to cause a chain reaction to generate that much energy… I don't think splitting hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, argon and whatever else makes up our atmosphere or whatever element was getting cut would be sufficient to generate any explosion.

Because cutting the elements means cutting atoms.

And can you tell me why splitting theoretical intangible elements in a manga would involve splitting the atoms of said elements? even if it requires splitting on an atomic level wouldn't it still be the bindings between the atoms?

notactuallytom

@Gorlom:

are you talking about nuclear fission explosions?

Do they not require fissionable material (usually a refined radioactive variant of uranium) to cause a chain reaction to generate that much energy… I don't think splitting hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, argon and whatever else makes up our atmosphere or whatever element was getting cut would be sufficient to generate any explosion.

And can you tell me why splitting theoretical intangible elements in a manga would involve splitting the atoms of said elements? even if it requires splitting on an atomic level wouldn't it still be the bindings between the atoms?

Indeed a heavy element is used for Atom bombs, but I think alot of energy would be produced still. I guess at first I was thinking of hydrogen bombs, but that's fusion, not fission. Still, how is any sword, even one that is sharpened to a single atom wide edge, supposed to cut molec

Actually, sorry. I can't debate nuclear fission with you. I'm an art major, not a nuclear physics major. I'm getting way ahead of myself. I'll just say I think the sky was not cut by WB and shanks blades, but merely their aura and just cause the clouds split, does not mean air molecules were split.
Also, why does everybody think mihawk is stronger than shanks? He lost to shanks. Maybe he's a better swordsman, but he still lost the fight, so…

Gorlom

why does everybody think mihawk is stronger than shanks? He lost to shanks. Maybe he's a better swordsman, but he still lost the fight, so…

What? SOURCE THAT PLEASE!

As far as I know they were equal up to the point where Shanks lost his arm and after that they didn't fight because Mihawk refuses to fight a man with only one arm.
That's the story I have heard at least(can't provide a source for it though)

And I think you are attempting to take this splitting elements bit a bit too litteral (or assume other people are). In a manga where the main character can stretch because a fruit turned him into a rubber there might be other ways to split elements then splitting their individual atoms. That aura theory seems a bit more reasonable since they did infact not point the sharp part of the blades at the sky but at each other

notactuallytom

@Gorlom:

What? SOURCE THAT PLEASE!

As far as I know they were equal up to the point where Shanks lost his arm and after that they didn't fight because Mihawk refuses to fight a man with only one arm.
That's the story I have heard at least(can't provide a source for it though)

I thought it was implied mihawk had given up trying to beat shanks.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/96/16/

Also, mihawk refuses to fight a man with one arm? Shanks can go against the whitebeard. I don't think mihawk sees it as an unfair fight. For some reason, shanks didn't get weaker since losing his arm. Or at least, it seems that way to me.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/

Neomaster121

@notactuallytom:

I thought it was implied mihawk had given up trying to beat shanks.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/96/16/

Also, mihawk refuses to fight a man with one arm? Shanks can go against the whitebeard. I don't think mihawk sees it as an unfair fight. For some reason, shanks didn't get weaker since losing his arm. Or at least, it seems that way to me.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/

but you have no idea how shanks fought when he had two arms. He may have battle using both arms on the single katana for more power but as soon as he lost that arm he became weaker and so mi hawk didn't want to fight a weaker version as it would have proven nothing.

Gorlom

@notactuallytom:

I thought it was implied mihawk had given up trying to beat shanks.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/96/16/

Also, mihawk refuses to fight a man with one arm? Shanks can go against the whitebeard. I don't think mihawk sees it as an unfair fight. For some reason, shanks didn't get weaker since losing his arm. Or at least, it seems that way to me.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/

http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/op-v11c096.txt

Captain: Well well, Hawk-Eyes. An unexpected visitor.
I'm in a bad mood right now… Have you come for a match?

Mihawk: Hmph... I'm not interested in our fight, now that you have but one arm.
I've found some interesting pirates.
They reminded me of something you talked about many years ago.
About a small village... and a funny young man...

Depends on the translation doesn't it?

I don't think they have fought since Shanks lost his arm. Don't know if it's because it's implied by this or if there was some other source for it. But I trust Stephens translation over this "vree" guy in your translation.

I can't say why Mihawk doesnt want to fight Shanks even if he did not become weaker. I don't know what goes on in his head. We haven't really seen enough of im for that.

notactuallytom

@Neomaster121:

but you have no idea how shanks fought when he had two arms. He may have battle using both arms on the single katana for more power but as soon as he lost that arm he became weaker and so mi hawk didn't want to fight a weaker version as it would have proven nothing.

Yeah what I'm saying is I don't think shanks is weaker with only one arm.

@Gorlom:

http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/op-v11c096.txt

Depends on the translation doesn't it?

I don't think they have fought since Shanks lost his arm. Don't know if it's because it's implied by this or if there was some other source for it. But I trust Stephens translation over this "vree" guy in your translation.

I can't say why Mihawk doesnt want to fight Shanks even if he did not become weaker. I don't know what goes on in his head. We haven't really seen enough of im for that.

Indeed. Thanks for that. I'd like to see the RAW. It seems like they at least encountered eachother sometime after shanks had given luffy the straw hat, since that's when he truly saw the potential in luffy.

BartholomewKuma

@notactuallytom:

Yeah what I'm saying is I don't think shanks is weaker with only one arm.

Shanks lost his left arm(he's a left handed), that's enough reason to say that he became weaker.

ctarlong910

where'd you hear he was left handed? and no, it's still speculation

BartholomewKuma

@ctarlong910:

where'd you hear he was left handed? and no, it's still speculation

16 WTFZOMGBBQLOL

Rosé

@notactuallytom:

I thought it was implied mihawk had given up trying to beat shanks.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/96/16/

Also, mihawk refuses to fight a man with one arm? Shanks can go against the whitebeard. I don't think mihawk sees it as an unfair fight. For some reason, shanks didn't get weaker since losing his arm. Or at least, it seems that way to me.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/

I don't see how you came to that conclusion, but fact is that what every single one of us is posting, is speculation.
But, from that image of young Shanks, we see him reaching out to unsheath another sword.
And his flag:

!
Contains two swords.
That's the proof that makes me think he originally was at his best with two swords, which I doubt he can still use, unless he's got a technique similar to Asura up his one remaining sleeve.
Note that they are both swordsmen, so I don't see Shanks being the stronger one since Mihawk has the title.
Oh, and that day they meet, it might just be that Mihawk can't be bothered to battle Shanks, I mean he destroys Don Kriegs fleet just because he's bored.
@Gorlom:

post it again (or direct me to the post where you posted it) I obviously missed it. I'v skipped any posts you've made that wasn't directly answering me as you seemed to be discussing splitting the sky or something which i find utterly irrelevant to any and all arguments.

If I were a deadly sin, I'd be sloth.

First of all why would speed off light make a difference? Secondly it is only the pads on the palm of his hands that deflect. nothing else as we see when both sanji and zoro hits him in other places. I think Kuma even explains this.

Hmm.
Well, because I'm assuming (note that we're all making assumptions here) that those paws won't be fast enough to deflect something going at a speed like that.
Why?
Because if they could deflect things the speed of light, they would be black. Why?
Because light particles would bounce right off them, thus our eyes would take it as being black.
Doesn't make sense seeing we can see the paws.
He does?
But you're forgetting that Kuma wasn't all that keen on fighting them in the first place.
So, I don't think he would've shown us all his techniques and honestly, he knows that they can't even scratch him, so didn't even bother defending himself.

Who knows? Maybe he's got a paw on his arse?
Pota- No, Tomato, Tomahto, take it either way.

Ok, I'll start saying outright that you are either making it up or misunderstanding what you read.

Nope, I'm speculating.
"In a rhetoric, logical debate, facts can be seen in a kaleidoscope of lights, either to be tested, yet only one truth will remain unconquered. This is the first step towards the true nature of things"~
I forget who said that, but it's in my coursebook.
We might be seeing the same thing, but until Oda proves us wrong, neither of us is right.

If you want a pause then by all means take one and only answer when you are ready to resume the discussion.

Aye, thanks for that.

I don't even know where you got that strange info on Kuma or why Zoro would need a seastone sword to land a hit on him. Zoro DID land a hit on him (Sanji too), it's just that they didn't cause any damage because he was a cyborg and they were expecting to hit (relatively) soft flesh and bones.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/07/
Here, Zorro states that he's much harder then steel.
The way he states this, sort of implies that he can't yet cut through anything harder.
When he was fighting Das Bones, he couldn't discern the breath of the metal in him, because he "was" the metal.
Same with Kuma really, his "breath" and the "breath" of the metal in his body is the same.
Also,
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/08/
Here it seems like, Kuma has absorbed the damage Zorro caused him (the damage he let Zorro cause him) and sent it back through his mouth. Which sorta implies his powers extend further then just his two hands.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/10/
Once again, I don't think Zorro would have mentioned his body alongside the ability if he had been able to cut it.
As much as I like Zorro, he was pretty stumped.

And I think you are attempting to take this splitting elements bit a bit too litteral (or assume other people are). In a manga where the main character can stretch because a fruit turned him into a rubber there might be other ways to split elements then splitting their individual atoms. That aura theory seems a bit more reasonable since they did infact not point the sharp part of the blades at the sky but at each other

Amen to that.
But,
It could either be two aura's clashing, or the sheer force of their impact.

Gorlom

@Rosé:

I don't see how you came to that conclusion, but fact is that what every single one of us is posting, is speculation.But, from that image of young Shanks, we see him reaching out to unsheath another sword. And his flag: >! http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj123/Captian_Mark/One%20Piece%20Shanks/Red-haired_pirates_flag.jpgContains two swords.That's the proof that makes me think he originally was at his best with two swords, which I doubt he can still use, unless he's got a technique similar to Asura up his one remaining sleeve.

His flag hardly proves anything. Having two swords were common on pirateflags… they used bones swords or hourglasses (don kreig if I recall correctly) like that.

Furtherrmore in the first chapter of one piece Shanks still has both arms but still only carry one sword:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/30

Hmm.

Well, because I'm assuming (note that we're all making assumptions here) that those paws won't be fast enough to deflect something going at a speed like that.Why?Because if they could deflect things the speed of light, they would be black.Why?**Because light particles would bounce right off them, thus our eyes would take it as being black.**Doesn't make sense seeing we can see the paws. 1. No they would be shining bright white if they constantly deflected the light. Black holes are black because they do NOT reflect light back.

2. Unlike Luffys rubber fruit the paw paw fruit seems to be activation (like say foxy's noru noru fruit). Otherwise he would be deflecting his gloves all the time. Which in turn means that the pads on his hands can have whatever colour in the rainbow since they are not constantly reflecting light particles as you assumed they did.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/07/Here, Zorro states that he's much harder then steel.
Ok Thanks. Well I guess I will have to give in on that one.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/08/Here it seems like, Kuma has absorbed the damage Zorro caused him (the damage he let Zorro cause him) and sent it back through his mouth. Which sorta implies his powers extend further then just his two hands.

Since the beam he fires from his mouth is not paw shaped i doubt its related to his power. It's more likely that he just fired some cyborg weaponry.

@ctarlong910:

where'd you hear he was left handed? and no, it's still speculation

Since shanks carried the sword on his right side in the first chapter of the manga he is either left handed, ambidexterious or very unorthodox in his way to unsheet his sword.

Rosé

@Gorlom:

His flag hardly proves anything. Having two swords were common on pirateflags… they used bones swords or hourglasses (don kreig if I recall correctly) like that.
Furtherrmore in the first chapter of one piece Shanks still has both arms but still only carry one sword:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/30

Now you reminded me that I need to read the first few chapters. =]
I didn't know that, thanks.

1. No they would be shining bright white if they constantly deflected the light. Black holes are black because they do NOT reflect light back.

2. Unlike Luffys rubber fruit the paw paw fruit seems to be activation (like say foxy's noru noru fruit). Otherwise he would be deflecting his gloves all the time. Which in turn means that the pads on his hands can have whatever colour in the rainbow since they are not constantly reflecting light particles as you assumed they did.

Alrighty, I got that one the wrong way around.
So, since they're not shining bright white, that means that they cannot deflect things at the speed of light and beyond.

http://www.onema
Since the beam he fires from his mouth is not paw shaped i doubt its related to his power. It's more likely that he just fired some cyborg weaponry.

Aye, you've got quite a point there.
I dunno, but maybe Vegapunk would somehow let slip something about these Pacifista alongside his meddling with DF's?
I hope so, it's really intriguing.

Gorlom

Alrighty, I got that one the wrong way around.
So, since they're not shining bright white, that means that they cannot deflect things at the speed of light and beyond.

No, it doesn't… (well the beyond light speed part was given since nothing can travel faster then light.)
There is nothing indicating that the pads are constantly deflecting at all times. If they were he wouldn't be able to wear his gloves and he would constantly be fireing pawprints at everyone and everything.
And since he can choose what he deflects I'm pretty certain that his ability needs to be activated.

He'd be like "Cyclops" from X-men otherwise. (cyclops constantly shoots lazers from his eyes and needs a special visor to contain it, just incase you aren't familiar with marvel heroes.)

Rosé

@Gorlom:

No, it doesn't… (well the beyond light speed part was given since nothing can travel faster then light.)
There is nothing indicating that the pads are constantly deflecting at all times. If they were he wouldn't be able to wear his gloves and he would constantly be fireing pawprints at everyone and everything.
And since he can choose what he deflects I'm pretty certain that his ability needs to be activated.

He'd be like "Cyclops" from X-men otherwise. (cyclops constantly shoots lazers from his eyes and needs a special visor to contain it, just incase you aren't familiar with marvel heroes.)

Okay, according to what you're saying, he needs to precisely time his powers to the second on impact.
Which would sorta mean that anybody with that maad speed, would be able to slice his paws without having anything deflected.
But you're right, it just occurred to me that he'd be deflecting the air particles before his paws, which we would've noticed.
Then again, they might be constantly deflecting the moment he activates them.

Psh, like Cyclops makes any sense whatsoever.
How come his eyelids don't get messed up by those maaaad lasers?

ctarlong910

This topic was arguing about cutting fire, which by the way is impossible since it is a form of energy and IIRC has no matter. My point being iff you think something like cutting fire is possible, the color of paws shouldn't determine what it can and can't deflect. I doubt that oda even knows this stuff about tthe deflecction of light and if he does he never took it into concideration.

Rosé

@ctarlong910:

This topic was arguing about cutting fire, which by the way is impossible since it is a form of energy and IIRC has no matter. My point being iff you think something like cutting fire is possible, the color of paws shouldn't determine what it can and can't deflect. I doubt that oda even knows this stuff about tthe deflecction of light and if he does he never took it into concideration.

Sorta true since he obviously doesn't know anything about velocity.
:silly:

Gorlom

What are the two of you on about now? what makes you think Oda doesn't research these things? If there is something that doesn't make sense it's more likely because Oda hasn't revealed all the factors in the equation then that he got it wrong.

Psh, like Cyclops makes any sense whatsoever.
How come his eyelids don't get messed up by those maaaad lasers?

(I think cyclops is supposed to be immune to his own power. Supposedly all mutants naturally develope some form of immunity or hightened resistance to their own powers)

ctarlong910

Gorlom, correct me if I'm wrong about fire having no matter, I'm only 50% confident it's true and you're smarter than I am and i don't want untrue facts bouncing around

It would make sense though that the sword is made of seastone, Ryuuma was the greatest swordsman and a king.

Rosé

@Gorlom:

What are the two of you on about now? what makes you think Oda doesn't research these things? If there is something that doesn't make sense it's more likely because Oda hasn't revealed all the factors in the equation then that he got it wrong.

(I think cyclops is supposed to be immune to his own power. Supposedly all mutants naturally develope some form of immunity or hightened resistance to their own powers)

Dudududum.
Sorry, I edited my post, there was this one incident that implies that Oda, has no interest in physics.

I just realized that AP forums lacks a rolleyes smilie.

@cttarlong,
I've explained somewhere in here just how the fire gets cut.
Fire can't exist without air, you cut the air, you cut the fire.
Shanks and WB seemingly cut air, therefore not impossible.
(Why am I thinking Inuyasha now? )

ctarlong910

actually I was wrong, Ryuuma wasn't a king it was just what people called him.

Gorlom

Fire is a reaction, so its not made up of a specific set of molecules (even if oxygen to my knowledge is always involved). but it needs burnable material to actually have the reaction take place.
I honestly dont know how to answer that question. In layman terms I guess it doesn't have any matter (as it is a reaction between matter) but if you want to be technical about it I become uncertain.

And how it works in Odaverse is even more uncertain.

Rose: That is an impossible situation in the first place. No one in the real world could gain weight/size like that.

I'm not entirely sure what laws the translator thought of when saying that but I do know that ancient greek long jumpers used to toss weights behind them in the middle of their jump to gain some extra lenght. so wouldn't it technically be possible to get them to loose lenght by tossing weights to them in the middle of the jump?

then apply this to chopper and his vertical jump instead. the weight he gains through "heavy point" may not be affected by his already ongoning acent(while still affected by gravity forces) together with the wind resistance he gets from his larger size might be sufficient enough to slow his upward momentum.

actually I was wrong, Ryuuma wasn't a king it was just what people called him

Why would this make any difference?

ero_seinen

Fire can exist without air…
If you put water and magnesium powder you'll have a fire under water... it's used for submarine activities

ctarlong910

gorlom, because if you have cobra and some peasant next to each other and you say "one of these people has a seastone sword," who are you more likely to think has it, some poor guy or the king?

Neomaster121

this topic seems to be going off course and we all know that zoro wouldn't use a seastone sword for power

Rosé

@Gorlom:

Fire is a reaction, so its not made up of a specific set of molecules (even if oxygen to my knowledge is always involved). but it needs burnable material to actually have the reaction take place.
I honestly dont know how to answer that question. In layman terms I guess it doesn't have any matter (as it is a reaction between matter) but if you want to be technical about it I become uncertain.

And how it works in Odaverse is even more uncertain.

Rose: That is an impossible situation in the first place. No one in the real world could gain weight/size like that.

I'm not entirely sure what laws the translator thought of when saying that but I do know that ancient greek long jumpers used to toss weights behind them in the middle of their jump to gain some extra lenght. so wouldn't it technically be possible to get them to loose lenght by tossing weights to them in the middle of the jump?

then apply this to chopper and his vertical jump instead. the weight he gains through "heavy point" may not be affected by his already ongoning acent(while still affected by gravity forces) together with the wind resistance he gets from his larger size might be sufficient enough to slow his upward momentum.

The last time I studied physics was back in secondary, a year ago, so my info is a bit rusty.
But there was this famous thing Galileo proved, by tossing weights down the leaning tower of Pisa.
The same principle works like this, that their time of descent is independent of their mass ie. weight.
As in for that greek myth, it was probably around the time of Aristotle, who claimed that "that heavy objects fall faster than lighter ones, in direct proportion to weight.

So yeah, Aristotle, despite being one of the pioneers of philosophy and logical thinking, has been proved wrong once again.
And no, I doubt wind resistance would have brought such a drastic change, but then again, physics don't apply in OPverse.

@ero_seinen,
Fun fact, but sorta irevelant, seeing even in Odaverse we won't have a situation involving that sort of concoction.

Rosé

@ctarlong910:

gorlom, because if you have cobra and some peasant next to each other and you say "one of these people has a seastone sword," who are you more likely to think has it, some poor guy or the king?

The peasant.
Why?
Because if Cobra had a sword like that, he'd have it with him to use against Crocodile.
=]

@Neomaster,
He would use it to get rid of a unfair advantage.
=/

ctarlong910

@Rosé:

The peasant.
Why?
Because if Cobra had a sword like that, he'd have it with him to use against Crocodile.
=]

I hope you're joking

Rosé

@ctarlong910:

I hope you're joking

55%
That hope is mutual my friend.

Gorlom

@Rosé:

The last time I studied physics was back in secondary, a year ago, so my info is a bit rusty.But there was this famous thing Galileo proved, by tossing weights down the leaning tower of Pisa.The same principle works like this, that their time of descent is independent of their mass ie. weight. As in for that greek myth, it was probably around the time of Aristotle, who claimed that "that heavy objects fall faster than lighter ones, in direct proportion to weight.

So yeah, Aristotle, despite being one of the pioneers of philosophy and logical thinking, has been proved wrong once again.And no, I doubt wind resistance would have brought such a drastic change, but then again, physics don't apply in OPverse.

@ero_seinen,Fun fact, but sorta irevelant, seeing even in Odaverse we won't have a situation involving that sort of concoction. i

I'm aware that the downward acceleration is independant of mass. but is upward movement the same?

Wouldn't a heavier body need more kinetic energy to travel the same distance as a lighter one if they are both traveling against the force of gravity?

Somehow I just find that argument flawed and simplified.

@ctarlong910:

gorlom, because if you have cobra and some peasant next to each other and you say "one of these people has a seastone sword," who are you more likely to think has it, some poor guy or the king?

Imo that is a flawed comparisment.

Who is likelier to have a good sword? the master swordsman or the king?
Depending on the culture the king might not even have a sword.

Just because the master swordsman is a king doesn't make him any liklier to have a good sword then any other masterswordsman. in fact it might be less likely as he has other things to be concerned with other then his swordsmanship.

Neomaster121

@Rosé:

The peasant.

Why?

Because if Cobra had a sword like that, he'd have it with him to use against Crocodile.

=]

@Neomaster,

He would use it to get rid of a unfair advantage.

=/

the sword would weaken his opponents im sure zoro would want to win with his own skills look at his fight with mr 1

Rosé

@Gorlom:

I'm aware that the downward acceleration is independant of mass. but is upward movement the same?

Wouldn't a heavier body need more kinetic energy to travel the same distance as a lighter one if they are both traveling against the force of gravity?

Somehow I just find that argument flawed and simplified.

I thought it's safe to assume that.
And yesh, I just realized that heavy chopper would need more kinetic energy to be set into motion.
During motion?
There's the "for every force there is a equal but opposite directed reaction force."
Which explains why Chopper descends faster, in a way.
I have no idea now really. Translator mistake? Maybe.
Wouldn't almost everything be flawed?
It's Odaverse we're talking about.

….
I sound like a science geek.
.__.

dinty

@Randy1031:

I'm actually waiting for this to happen.

And I'm actually waiting for it NOT to happen.

… but don't take that personally, ok?

ok, gotta split now. see everyone in a few weeks.

ThunderEarthFire

@dinty:

And I'm actually waiting for it NOT to happen.

… but don't take that personally, ok?

ok, gotta split now. see everyone in a few weeks.

That's not actually possible since zoro doesn't have a seastone sword, so there is no wait.

dinty

@ThunderEarthFire:

That's not actually possible since zoro doesn't have a seastone sword, so there is no wait.

Well, it's possible in the sense that I'm waiting for it to never happen, so that I can confirm – after it never happened -- that indeed, it never happened.

But you're right, my logic is totally twisted here.

So here's what I said a few threads ago when the same subject came up.
(This was before Thriller Bark, so a few things are different now obviously).

Meh eventually swayed my opinion about Zoronot getting a new sword, but nobody's been able to sway my opinion about Zoro getting a seastone sword.

... Yet.

http://apforums.net/showpost.php?p=431385&postcount=82

Ciao!

Neomaster121

well it was good he replaced his sword with another of the same rank as his wado sword but everything apart from that is correct. It would tarnish is reptutation to use a df/seastone sword

honeybunch

I'm not a big fan of the idea of giving Zoro a seastone sword. It just seems out of character.

That said, the "Whitebeard and Shanks can cut the elements" argument is bunk, in my opinion. They weren't cutting the elements. They were making a cloud split into two clouds. If they did that to a logia user, such as Smoker, he'd split into two clouds of smoke. And then both clouds would join up again, and he'd be totally fine. You see Crocodile split apart numerous times in his fight with Luffy, and he just comes right back together again.

So while I have no doubt that Zoro could cut many elements, I don't really think it would help him in any way. Logia users, with the exception of Blackbeard, are totally invulnerable to physical attacks, and that includes swords.

SabZ

@honeybunch:

.
So while I have no doubt that Zoro could cut many elements, I don't really think it would help him in any way. Logia users, with the exception of Blackbeard, are totally invulnerable to physical attacks, and that includes swords.

With a seastone sword a logia's users flesh would be cut. Just like physical punches have affect e.g. Luffy (with water) > Crocodile.

phyrros

@Gorlom:

Fire is a reaction, so its not made up of a specific set of molecules (even if oxygen to my knowledge is always involved). but it needs burnable material to actually have the reaction take place.
I honestly dont know how to answer that question. In layman terms I guess it doesn't have any matter (as it is a reaction between matter) but if you want to be technical about it I become uncertain.

Fire is (more or less) just a common name for a fast oxidation which (despite its name) doesn't need oxygen. A most forward experiment would be a chocolate cake under a fluor atmosphere - burns quite cool but leaves you behind with the bad feeling of wasting a yummy cake.

honeybunch

@$abZ:

With a seastone sword a logia's users flesh would be cut. Just like physical punches have affect e.g. Luffy (with water) > Crocodile.

No, no, you misunderstand me. Earlier in the thread, some users were claiming that Zoro might be able to "cut the elements" with a normal sword, and therefore would not need a seastone sword. I was pointing out that even if he could cut the various logia elements, the logia users would simply reform themselves, as they would when confronted with any purely physical attack.

I'm not a big fan of the idea of Zoro weilding a seastone sword, but I don't think normal swords would cut it (no pun intended) against logia users, no matter how good a swordsman Zoro becomes.

Gorlom

honeybunch: While I too doubt Zoro will cut elements or recive a seastone sword, I will point out to you that
a) in the scene between Shanks and WB one of the characters is pointing out that the clouds split then he corrects himself and says the sky split. (which suggest more then just parting of a cloud)
b) I think they mean splitting elements in a more metaphysical sense then just cutting through it like if it was solid matter. Kinda like how Shanks aura managed to both affect WBs crew mentaly as well as creek the deck.

honeybunch

a) in the scene between Shanks and WB one of the characters is pointing out that the clouds split then he corrects himself and says the sky split. (which suggest more then just parting of a cloud)

Again, this is a physical splitting. The sky and clouds are both physical things, and can be moved and even split.

The advantage of logia powers is not that they prevent the user from being cut or forced apart, but that they can reform after being split.

b) I think they mean splitting elements in a more metaphysical sense then just cutting through it like if it was solid matter. Kinda like how Shanks aura managed to both affect WBs crew mentaly as well as creek the deck.

Okay. I acknowledge that Shanks' aura can affect people mentally, but I don't see how it relates to "cutting the elements". To me, they seem like two very different things.

Gorlom

Please explain how the sky is physical, to me it is pretty intangible. How can you visibly split it?

Shanks aura had both a mental and physical affect at the same time. Normal rules does not apply to high end techniques in OP. If that means they can cut elements or not I can't tell.

honeybunch

@Gorlom:

Please explain how the sky is physical, to me it is pretty intangible. How can you visibly split it?

The sky is made of air, and you touch air all the time. There's nothing intangible about it, except that you might find it hard to get all the way up there so you can touch it.

I admit, the power that Shanks and Whitebeard displayed when they split the sky was quite impressive, but I don't see how they would prevent it from reforming when they stopped exerting that power. I'm not arguing that Zoro couldn't cut a logia user in half. I'm arguing that it wouldn't do any good, because he couldn't stop the logia user from reforming his body.

Shanks aura had both a mental and physical affect at the same time. Normal rules does not apply to high end techniques in OP. If that means they can cut elements or not I can't tell.

I agree with you there, but you seemed to be suggesting Shanks' aura was evidence that Zoro would be able to cut the logia fruit elements. I was saying that it really wasn't.

Gorlom

I guess I'm going to be playing the devils advocate here. =P

The sky is made of air, and you touch air all the time. There's nothing intangible about it, except that you might find it hard to get all the way up there so you can touch it.

If you wave a sword (or a stick or anything) infront of you it cuts through the air, but it doesn't visibly split it.
You say that you touch air all the time, but you can't grab it, you can't hold on to it. Nor can you see it. In that sense it's not tangible.

I admit, the power that Shanks and Whitebeard displayed when they split the sky was quite impressive, but I don't see how they would prevent it from reforming when they stopped exerting that power.

Ofcourse you can't, none of us can. We don't know enough of the rules in OPverse. So people are speculating that there is a possibility.

I agree with you there, but you seemed to be suggesting Shanks' aura was evidence that Zoro would be able to cut the logia fruit elements. I was saying that it really wasn't.

Not evidence. But maybe indication that implies that such a thing can be possible.

honeybunch

@Gorlom:

If you wave a sword (or a stick or anything) infront of you it cuts through the air, but it doesn't visibly split it.

Mostly because air is invisible.

You say that you touch air all the time, but you can't grab it, you can't hold on to it. Nor can you see it. In that sense it's not tangible.

Oh yes I can!

If my lungs stopped being able to grab and hold onto air, I'd have a serious problem. But not for long, because I'd be dead pretty fast.

Ofcourse you can't, none of us can. We don't know enough of the rules in OPverse. So people are speculating that there is a possibility.

I admit the possibility. I just was saying that you can't really use Whitebeard and Shanks' splitting of the sky as evidence that Zoro won't need a seastone sword.

Not evidence. But maybe indication that implies that such a thing can be possible.

Well, I suppose it does show that things that are impossible in our world are possible in the world of One Piece. But we knew that all along, so I don't see how it makes Zoro cutting the elements any more likely to happen.

It really seems like we're arguing minutiae here, at this point. I suppose that's alright, though.