Ryuuma's Sword

notactuallytom

I believe the black sword zoro recieved on thriller bark from ryuuma was made of seastone. After all, it was said it's greatest characteristic was it's hardness and seastone is supposed to be harder than diamond. Seastone is also black, right? Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is not an unreasonable presumption.

A couple minor things: Without at least one seastone sword, how will he fight against logias? Also, I believe hawkeye's sword is seastone.

Also, @Festizio:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/13/

In this panel it looks like Shuusui touches Kuma's hand, if it were made out of seastone it would have nullified his Paw powers and sliced through his hand, since that doesnt happen we can reasonably assume that the sword is not made of seastone.

@Rashou:

I'm not particularly onboard with notactuallytom's theory, but I have a counterpoint to this [Festizio's] specific argument. The sea, and thus we can infer seastone, affects all the different types of DF users differently. Kuma's a Paramecia user, so his power wouldn't be negated-if the Paramecia fruit users all react the same way to DF fruits, then Kuma would just get weaker as he's in contact with the stone. Just like how Luffy got super weak underwater in the Arlong arc, but still maintained his ability to stretch, even when fully submerged. Logia probably only "solidify" when in contact with the sea or seastone because they're the only ones that can become intangible in the first place. And Logia can still use their powers even after they've become tangible due to water effects (Crocodile was pretty soaked in his 2nd and 3rd fights vs. Luffy).

@Rosé:

I just read a little bit ahead.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/07/
The hardness is way higher then steels.
I know that seastone is superhard, but I don't think Zorro has the ability to cut through this unknown metal.
I mean, there are probably hundreds of Df-users, I don't think a Shichibukai like Kuma is only dependent upon his fruit power.

candrew

I don't think that his newest sword is made of seastone, if for no other reason then it feels a bit early for him to get something so powerful. To be honest, I don't think he'll ever get a seastone sword , or really fight that much against logias for that matter but if he does fight against logias I think his solution would be refining his sword technique as opposed to using their natural weakness against them.

Rosé

Wouldn't he have mentioned it?
Or even noticed?
Unless, of course he wants to whip it out all of the sudden and be all like:
"Hardy har har imma got dis seastone sword and imma CUT U BISHES!"
Which means, I think he's got one of those, or will get one in near future.

tonitonichopper

I don't think Mihawks sword is seastone. Wouldn't such a large piece have affected Luffy? Who pretty much charged at him.

uTosTan

Zoro carrying a Sea stone while being around Luffy, Brooke, Chopper and Robin and them being not affected? Where do you get your facts? It is an unreasonable presumption.

After Zoro was cut across the chest by Hawk-eye, Luffy went flying towards Hawk-eye but Luffy didn't look worn out as he did in Crocodile's prison.

Where was it stated that sea stone were black?

Rosé

@uTosTan:

Zoro carrying a Sea stone while being around Luffy, Brooke, Chopper and Robin and them being not affected? Where do you get your facts? It is an unreasonable presumption.

After Zoro was cut across the chest by Hawk-eye, Luffy went flying towards Hawk-eye but Luffy didn't look worn out as he did in Crocodile's prison.

Where was it stated that sea stone were black?

Uhm.
Smoker has a seastone sword ~~thingy~~, he carries it on his back.
How come he's not affected?
Apparently, layers of clothing, or a scabbard block out the draining properties.
A DF user need to come in direct contact to have their energy drained.
Because, according to your logic, we'd have to argue that Luffy is really close to the sea, why isn't he losing power constantly?

It's not stated anywhere, but looking at the anime and manga, it's always been dark-colored.
Which really could mean nothing.

tonitonichopper

It's not being closed to the sea that makes them lose power… I don't remember that being mentioned in the post about either...

Rosé

@tonitonichopper:

It's not being closed to the sea that makes them lose power… I don't remember that being mentioned in the post about either...

Seastone, has the same effect upon DF users as the sea does.
Thats as much clarification I can type up right now, it's rather late and I gtg~
:happy:

notactuallytom

@uTosTan:

Zoro carrying a Sea stone while being around Luffy, Brooke, Chopper and Robin and them being not affected? Where do you get your facts? It is an unreasonable presumption.

After Zoro was cut across the chest by Hawk-eye, Luffy went flying towards Hawk-eye but Luffy didn't look worn out as he did in Crocodile's prison.

Where was it stated that sea stone were black?

None of them touched that sword. That's why. Luffy never touched mihawk's sword. Seastone looks black. It's black and white, so I can't tell for sure.

The only thing slightly flawed is that brooke was stabbed(can a skeleton be stabbed?)with that sword. Even so, he wasn't exactly bursting with energy after that.

tonitonichopper

@Rosé:

Seastone, has the same effect upon DF users as the sea does.
Thats as much clarification I can type up right now, it's rather late and I gtg~
:happy:

But that's not how it works. Being near the sea doesn't hurt them. If that was it then how the heck would Luffy even be sailing? You have to be like completely submerged or waist deep in the stuff for any real affect. Seastone just being to close to it will cause a Devil Fruit user's power to go null.

@notactuallytom:

None of them touched that sword. That's why. Luffy never touched mihawk's sword. Seastone looks black. It's black and white, so I can't tell for sure.

The only thing slightly flawed is that brooke was stabbed(can a skeleton be stabbed?)with that sword. Even so, he wasn't exactly bursting with energy after that.

Yes but he was pretty close to it. He didn't need to touch Crocodiles cell bars to start feeling weak. Plus Mihawk's sword isn't even in a sheath. I'm sure if it was seastone Luffy would have felt something right?

notactuallytom

@tonitonichopper:

But that's not how it works. Being near the sea doesn't hurt them. If that was it then how the heck would Luffy even be sailing? You have to be like completely submerged or waist deep in the stuff for any real affect. Seastone just being to close to it will cause a Devil Fruit user's power to go null.

Yes but he was pretty close to it. He didn't need to touch Crocodiles cell bars to start feeling weak. Plus Mihawk's sword isn't even in a sheath. I'm sure if it was seastone Luffy would have felt something right?

No, and Yes he did. He also felt weak when the water was almost waist high.
Smoker's weapon is tipped with seastone, he seems fine.

Buuhan1

@Rosé:

Uhm.
Smoker has a seastone sword ~~thingy~~, he carries it on his back.
How come he's not affected?
Apparently, layers of clothing, or a scabbard block out the draining properties.
A DF user need to come in direct contact to have their energy drained.
Because, according to your logic, we'd have to argue that Luffy is really close to the sea, why isn't he losing power constantly?

It's not stated anywhere, but looking at the anime and manga, it's always been dark-colored.
Which really could mean nothing.

Smoker's weapon isn't a sword, it's a jutte. Look it up. And it's not made of seastone, only the tip is which never comes in contact with Smoker.

Lobster Pot-Sticker

@tonitonichopper:

I don't think Mihawks sword is seastone. Wouldn't such a large piece have affected Luffy? Who pretty much charged at him.

Obviously it did, because Luffy missed and fell on his face into the side of the ship.

Perhaps it took away his control?

MAYBE?

uTosTan

Perhaps Mihawk DODGED it?

Buuhan1

Mihawk DID dodge it.

tonitonichopper

@notactuallytom:

No, and Yes he did. He also felt weak when the water was almost waist high.
Smoker's weapon is tipped with seastone, he seems fine.

Well duh, he works for the World Government. I'm sure they have ways to keep the stuff from effecting their own Devil Fruit using operatives. It would be stupid if only one kind of Devil Fruit had such a big weakness. And even when they were stuck in the cell he couldn't get himself out could he?

@Lobster:

Obviously it did, because Luffy missed and fell on his face into the side of the ship.

Perhaps it took away his control?

MAYBE?

Did you actually see the scene? Luffy stretches his arm and grabs a piece of the ship, then flings himself towards Mihawk, then Mihawk turns himself just enough for Luffy to go flying past him and collide into the part his hand grabbed.

Festizio

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/13/

In this panel it looks like Shuusui touches Kuma's hand, if it were made out of seastone it would have nullified his Paw powers and sliced through his hand, since that doesnt happen we can reasonably assume that the sword is not made of seastone.

Chopperholic

Zoro's blade made of seastone? What are you smoking man, you know seastone nullifies and weakens a devil fruit user and on the crew there's 4 df users. I doubt it, unless maybe it has a coat of seastone dust on the tip of the blade thats possible.

Maybe it could have a coating of seastone dust on the blade, cause some machines and knifes use diamond powder coating on there blades for precise sharp cuts so it could be possible

Silver R. Bolt

The Waist high arument. That's not being near water, THATS BEING IN WATER. Near water would be him on a table with the room flooded up to the table.
Luffy also was touching the bar, that's what made him weak. Smoker was able to punch Luffy with full strength while still being in the cage.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

I don't believe Zoro has a seastone sword and/or will ever have one. He will have to be strong enough to win against logia users just like Luffy needs to find a way to beat logia users without using their weakness (water, rubber, seastone, …)

I don't know what the people are smoking but I never saw seastone affecting df-users without explicitly touching the users.
Enel wasn't effected by the seastone wiper had untill he touched enel with it.
Smoker/Luffy/Crocodile weren't showing any weakness around the seastone cage untill Luffy touched it
Luffy/Lucci/Robin/Funkfried didn't show any weakness when they were in the seastone watertunnel in Enies Lobbies.

So check the facts before you start talking.

Welkin

@Festizio:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/13/

In this panel it looks like Shuusui touches Kuma's hand, if it were made out of seastone it would have nullified his Paw powers and sliced through his hand, since that doesnt happen we can reasonably assume that the sword is not made of seastone.

Excellent find, until you posted that I was thinking that it was quite possible that his sword was seastone.

I now think that either Zoro's sword can't be seastone, or they made an error in that fight… which I doubt...

BetterBetterNoMi

Are you sure Zoro is touching Kuma? (We see itfrom the back of Zoro, can't be sure unless the SFX say smth about it)

I kinda liek the idea of Zoro having a seastone sword.

And boohoo, I was gonna mention that Enel-Wiper and the Crocodile-Smoker shit, you ebat me to it, WHERE's my idiot smacking ?:(

BartholomewKuma

This post is deleted!

Kitsune9-TailedBeast

You ever think this might go in the "Theories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread" thread? Just a thought

Kaze

I'm going to have to agree with kitsune.

Neomaster121

Zoro's way of fighting wouldn't include exploiting a persons weakness to that degree that hes not having to do much

If Zoro were to fight a swordsmen who had a logia fruit he would fight using his raw power and skill

BetterBetterNoMi

And lose, I assume?

Neomaster121

well i assume he would fight a way and logia types can't be all powerful as some of the top pirates shanks and wb are df free so maybe theres a way to deal with them apart from exploiting the seastone way to beat a logia type

plus Zoro won't loose to any swordsmen until he fights mi hawk again ^__^

*Meh*

For the record, Luffy never really exploited Crocodile or Enel's weakness; he just nullified their ability to attack or defend with their Devil Fruit power. Since they still had means to attack Luffy and defend themselves outside of reliance on their DFs, the only weakness being exploited was that of the Devil Fruit. To this end, Zoro shouldn't have any objections to exploiting a Logia's weakness in a duel- just not the Logia-user's.

Neomaster121

theres a difference between nulifying and weakening them and isn't that what would happen if he used a seastone weapon? and i think Zoro likes the challenge look at mr 1 for example he was close to being a logia type

rubanga

Instead of getting a sea-stone sword, i think it would be better if he could eventually cut elements.
Whitebeard and Shanks did cut the sky, so maybe.

*Meh*

Other than it's hardness and emitting the same DF-nullifying energy as the sea, have any other properties of Seastone been mentioned directly? It seems malleable, given that Smoker's jutte has a Seastone tip, rather than being made entirely of the mineral. It also seems ductile, since the bars of the Seastone cage that held Luffy and Smoker were made of Seatone, and the hulls of Marine ships can be coated with it. Given these properties, it isn't hard to believe that a Seastone sword could be made; but would it really be a superior weapon? As any element or alloy increases in hardness, it also tends to increase in brittleness. While it might be hard enough to cut through steel with ease, a Seastone sword might shatter if struck too hard, such as when parrying or deflecting. This could be avoided by simply making the blade thicker, but the increase in weight would alter the balance of the sword. This could potentially ruin it as a weapon.

BetterBetterNoMi

rubanga, I can only wish Zoro good luck in cutting elementals. I mean, cutting fire seems so possible. Or cutting smoke. Yeah, GL with that.

Meh, I thought about that aspect of "is it really good to make a weapon out of seastone?", and I got to the same conclusion. However I expect one anyway, and that it will not shatter ot break.

Neomaster, there's a difference between cutting steel to cutting smoke. I jstu cannot imagine someone beating a logia with raw power. NOBODY.

*Meh*

Based on its size, shape, and (presumed) weight, Wadou Ichimonji should not be capable of cutting steel. Yet, Zoro does just that with his ShiShi SonSon technique. This argues that his ability to cut steel (or anything else, for that matter) lies not in the strength of his weapon, but in his technique. I imagine he could even cut Seastone if he "heard its breath". The only opponent he really needs a Seastone sword for is Shuu; and that's only if Seastone doesn't rust. ^_~

notactuallytom

@_Meh_:

Other than it's hardness and emitting the same DF-nullifying energy as the sea, have any other properties of Seastone been mentioned directly? It seems malleable, given that Smoker's jutte has a Seastone tip, rather than being made entirely of the mineral. It also seems ductile, since the bars of the Seastone cage that held Luffy and Smoker were made of Seatone, and the hulls of Marine ships can be coated with it. Given these properties, it isn't hard to believe that a Seastone sword could be made; but would it really be a superior weapon? As any element or alloy increases in hardness, it also tends to increase in brittleness. While it might be hard enough to cut through steel with ease, a Seastone sword might shatter if struck too hard, such as when parrying or deflecting. This could be avoided by simply making the blade thicker, but the increase in weight would alter the balance of the sword. This could potentially ruin it as a weapon.

If it's malleability is a strong attribute, it won't be brittle.

Neomaster121

@BetterBetterNoMi:

rubanga, I can only wish Zoro good luck in cutting elementals. I mean, cutting fire seems so possible. Or cutting smoke. Yeah, GL with that.

Meh, I thought about that aspect of "is it really good to make a weapon out of seastone?", and I got to the same conclusion. However I expect one anyway, and that it will not shatter ot break.

Neomaster, there's a difference between cutting steel to cutting smoke. I jstu cannot imagine someone beating a logia with raw power. NOBODY.

ok if you want to try put me down good for you, and I did say raw power plus skill. Shishi Sonson before using it Zoro decribes everything to having a sort of breath. You don't don't know how Oda could go through the story he may never have Zoro fight a logia type. But Mi-hawks is a tops swordsman and i don't think its because of having a seastone sword and if he fought logia types then he would have beaten them some how.

Developing techniques in one piece isn't impossible, trying to cut fire in real life with a katana isn't going to work of course but this is manga and almost anything is possible if the author decides it

notactuallytom

@Neomaster121:

ok if you want to try put me down good for you, and I did say raw power plus skill. Shishi Sonson before using it Zoro decribes everything to having a sort of breath. You don't don't know how Oda could go through the story he may never have Zoro fight a logia type. But Mi-hawks is a tops swordsman and i don't think its because of having a seastone sword and if he fought logia types then he would have beaten them some how.

Developing techniques in one piece isn't impossible, trying to cut fire in real life with a katana isn't going to work of course but this is manga and almost anything is possible if the author decides it

True, but only if he decides it from the beginning. Otherwise, it's "plot no jutsu" or whatever. Oda really isn't the type to stray from the rules he's set down already for the OPverse. I do, however, think that there's something to shanks and WB cutting the sky. Don't know what's up there, but I trust Oda to do it right.

Rosé

@tonitonichopper:

But that's not how it works. Being near the sea doesn't hurt them. If that was it then how the heck would Luffy even be sailing? You have to be like completely submerged or waist deep in the stuff for any real affect. Seastone just being to close to it will cause a Devil Fruit user's power to go null.

Note that I said according to his logic, not mine.
I agree with the first part of your post, obviously, but as others have stated, Luffy was touching the bars when he felt weak.
The only reason Smoker didn't do anything was because he knew touching seastone would nullify his powers.
So yeah, as proved earlier, Zorro might not have a seastone sword, but if he did, it wouldn't cause the other crewmembers any weakness.
Unless he pokes them with it, ofcourse.

@Meh,
unless I'm very much mistaken, it was stated that seastone is harder then diamonds.

*Meh*

Yes, it was stated during the CP9 arc that it is harder than diamond- which I alluded to here: http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php?p=876484&postcount=31

I was merely wondering if it had a crystalline structure or not. Based on everything seen so far, it does not. So it could be used to make very fine weapons. The only other consideration is its availability. How widely available is Seastone? The World Government has ready access to it, considering the Marines can line the hulls of ships with it and even Crocodile could get a cage made of it. But outside of Wiper, I don't recall any other ordinary citizen having access to it.

Lobster Pot-Sticker

@tonitonichopper:

Did you actually see the scene? Luffy stretches his arm and grabs a piece of the ship, then flings himself towards Mihawk, then Mihawk turns himself just enough for Luffy to go flying past him and collide into the part his hand grabbed.

Yea

But that guy was using it as evidence, by saying "Luffy would have been weakened there and wasn't".

I just mean.. he fell on his face. Maybe Mi Hawk's sword weakened him in mid strike. But whatever the case, it definitely doesn't count out Mi Hawk's sword being seastone.

That's for shur'

Angel emfrbl

Question: Why do we have to have a seatone sword thread as well as a DF sword thread?

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=11809&highlight=seastone+sword+zoro

And whats wrong with normal swords anyhow? He has doen fine up til now.

notactuallytom

@Angel:

Question: Why do we have to have a seatone sword thread as well as a DF sword thread?

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=11809&highlight=seastone+sword+zoro

And whats wrong with normal swords anyhow? He has doen fine up til now.

Because they're totally different? Zoro does not have normal swords. Kuina's is very special to him, he's got that cursed sword and now shuusui or I tthink that's it's name.

Rashou

@Festizio:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/13/

In this panel it looks like Shuusui touches Kuma's hand, if it were made out of seastone it would have nullified his Paw powers and sliced through his hand, since that doesnt happen we can reasonably assume that the sword is not made of seastone.

I'm not particularly onboard with notactuallytom's theory, but I have a counterpoint to this specific argument. The sea, and thus we can infer seastone, affects all the different types of DF users differently. Kuma's a Paramecia user, so his power wouldn't be negated-if the Paramecia fruit users all react the same way to DF fruits, then Kuma would just get weaker as he's in contact with the stone. Just like how Luffy got super weak underwater in the Arlong arc, but still maintained his ability to stretch, even when fully submerged. Logia probably only "solidify" when in contact with the sea or seastone because they're the only ones that can become intangible in the first place. And Logia can still use their powers even after they've become tangible due to water effects (Crocodile was pretty soaked in his 2nd and 3rd fights vs. Luffy).

Rosé

@Festizio:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/484/13/

In this panel it looks like Shuusui touches Kuma's hand, if it were made out of seastone it would have nullified his Paw powers and sliced through his hand, since that doesnt happen we can reasonably assume that the sword is not made of seastone.

I just read a little bit ahead.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/07/
The hardness is way higher then steels.
I know that seastone is superhard, but I don't think Zorro has the ability to cut through this unknown metal.
I mean, there are probably hundreds of Df-users, I don't think a Shichibukai like Kuma is only dependent upon his fruit power.

notactuallytom

Hmm… not only should we consider Rashou's point, but Rose brings up a good point as well. He's a super advanced cyborg, and even if the seastone took away his strength somewhat, it's unlikely he'll make a scratch anyway.

Gorlom

Although the topic isn't that stupid (even if i personally find it ridiculous and extremely unlikely that any master sword smith would make a good enough sword to belong in one of the three tiers, out of some mineral other then what he is used to working with. And in addition that Zoro would fight anyone worthy at anything else then their full power.) some of the responses in this thread really looks hall of shame worthy to me.

Rashou: Robin didn't look that weak to me when she wore the seastone cuffs.(In fact wasn't she strong enough to prevent Spandam from dragging her off by biting into the bridge?). And why did she not use her power before she got them off, once she decided she didn't want to go with Spandam anymore, if they only weaken but don't nullify the powers of paramecians?
Personally I don't belive that seastone and the sea have the exact same effects on DevilFruit users. I'v never seen any DF active while the user was in contact with seastone.

Neomaster121

well with the surfacing of the mihawk being able to cut elements then in means i was right to say Zoro wouldn't need a seastone sword. Also that confirms that Mihawks sword isn't made of seastone.

Welkin

Continuing the line of thought on how seastone affects a paramecia, when Califa was taking a bath and was half-submerged Nami noted that she couldn't use her powers in that state and Califa agreed.

I think the reason Luffy could still stretch is that his Devil's Fruit Power does not 'let him become rubber' but 'turns his body into rubber'. So Luffy can stretch against his will, because his body is rubber regardless of what Luffy does.

That said, if we assume there are (at least) two types of powers, ones you activate and ones that are always active, then the seastone would negate only powers that you activate, and having the seastone handcuffs on Luffy would not affect his body's ability to stretch.

So applying that theory, if Kuma's paw reflects things regardless of a conscious effort, then I think even if Zoro's sword was seastone it would have been fine. But if Kuma needs to actively repel objects (which it seems to me that it does, but nowhere does it say that) then Zoro would not have gotten shot backwards.

BetterBetterNoMi

I'd liek proof of that "Mihawk can cut elements"

Once I've been shown this, it's obvious Zoro will be able to, too, and won't need seastone sword.

Gorlom

@Welkin:

Continuing the line of thought on how seastone affects a paramecia, when Califa was taking a bath and was half-submerged Nami noted that she couldn't use her powers in that state and Califa agreed.

I think that is more a case of an iffy translation you have read there. If I recall correctly there was bubbles in the bath with her which suggests she could use her powers (granted she could have used some soap, but that is not what the image implies). What Nami was refering to is the (partial) physical paralyzation that comes from submerging a df-user (partially) in water.