Bleach Discussion Part 2

Ivotas

You know with match ups like Zaraki vs. Noitra, Mayuri vs. Szayel, Yamamoto vs. Barragan and Shunsui vs. Stark I'm really surprised that Ulquiorra isn't facing Byakuya.

But anyway unless of course he doesn't have some superb backup I don't see how Ulquiorra will manage to keep things in order at Las Noches. I mean, he's practically the only espade out there. And who's there representing the other side? Ichigo, Baykuya, Mayuri, Zaraki and Unohana and quite a number of companions. Not to mention that Grimjow is most likely to become another Renji clone and join Ichigo.

Davy

Erm, what happened to Yammi again? (He seems to have just phased out of existence)

Phoenix Zoan

@Davy:

Erm, what happened to Yammi again? (He seems to have just phased out of existence)

He's playing mahjong with Sai and Yamamto.

Ichigo won't lose against Ulquiorra. He'll get some hidden resolve "powerup" and defeat him. Now that the top 3 Espada revealed them the #4 no longer matters. Plus with Stark kidnapping Orihime he'll most likely end up being Ichigo's rival next arc.

Elric

Kubo shouldn't have denied Itsygo the vast potential of the Kidou route. The story in general would have benefited and it would have made for some interesting twists during the fights. As it is now Kubo will have a hard time powering up Itsygo even more without making it look like a rehash or dem.

rusashi

I bet he'll get a resureccion sooner or later, maybe even now.

Captain Shmeckie

Anyone notice we kinda got a hint to Ulquiorra's power? Look at the last two pages again. There's a black liquid covering Ulqy's sword and the ground, and it isn't Ichigo's blood from the looks of it.

Hakuro de Killer

~~Grimmjow for Nakama!~~

But in all seriousness, there is one Arrancar I am expecting a lot out of. Does anyone not want to see Wonderweiss just show his power as being stronger than even Aizen?

That being said, Yammy needs to show up and be killed so we can kind of move on.

Elric

@Captain:

Anyone notice we kinda got a hint to Ulquiorra's power? Look at the last two pages again. There's a black liquid covering Ulqy's sword and the ground, and it isn't Ichigo's blood from the looks of it.

So that crap on his shoulder isn't a slash?

Ivotas

In situations like these I'm always reminded of Battle Franky's great words "Arlong Park Forums reading comprehension: Always top notch!"

DesertSpada

@Ivotas:

You know with match ups like Zaraki vs. Noitra, Mayuri vs. Szayel, Yamamoto vs. Barragan and Shunsui vs. Stark I'm really surprised that Ulquiorra isn't facing Byakuya.

But anyway unless of course he doesn't have some superb backup I don't see how Ulquiorra will manage to keep things in order at Las Noches. I mean, he's practically the only espade out there. And who's there representing the other side? Ichigo, Baykuya, Mayuri, Zaraki and Unohana and quite a number of companions. Not to mention that Grimjow is most likely to become another Renji clone and join Ichigo.

Unfortunately you're right. Ulquiorra is the only one left and more than most likely destined to be killed by Ichigo who barely beat Grimmjow and had to be saved from Nnoitra. Yammy is too busy smashing little arrancars heads in to be useful and really, what can he do? He's the weakest of them all and #5 was just beaten. Maybe Wonderweiss will eat him and grow some intelligence…but then again this is Yammy we're talking about. It will probably lower it, if anything.

What I was thinking a while ago was that Orihime would finally get a nice handful of resolve and fight. If she can reverse people from vaporization, then if she would just make a decision, she would be extremely powerful. So far? Nada.

As for everyone else, I don't know what they're doing. Maybe getting healed by Orihime so they can bail Ichigo out when Ulquiorra is about to rip his head off.

rusashi

Im kind of hoping Yammy shows up before this fight gets underway. Even though I still want Chad to just punch him a good one, Ichigo's friends vs Yammy seems like it could happen.

Seriously if the 4th Espada is killed before Yammy, Kubo's mentally retarded

Hakuro de Killer

I have a theory concerning Yammy, but it's rather stupid.

I have a theory that Keigo, Tatsuki, and Mizuiro are going to "Have their hidden superpowers awakened" not unlike Chad and Orihime. That being said, those three are probably going to be fighting against Yammy to test their powers.

Then again, unless Kubo gets any more random with the story, I'm going to be wrong.

rusashi

He just needs to show up and be defeated

I dont care by who because his fight is going to be incredibly underwhelming because whoever fights him will probably destroy him compared to the other espada fights

FireFistAce 0

@Hakuro:

I have a theory concerning Yammy, but it's rather stupid.

I have a theory that Keigo, Tatsuki, and Mizuiro are going to "Have their hidden superpowers awakened" not unlike Chad and Orihime. That being said, those three are probably going to be fighting against Yammy to test their powers.

Then again, unless Kubo gets any more random with the story, I'm going to be wrong.

Or we could just have Unohana fight Yammy, and that'd give her the fight Kubo promised us this arc.

Elric

@Fire Fist:

Or we could just have Unohana fight Yammy, and that'd give her the fight Kubo promised us this arc.

You must be kidding, Unohana is way out of his league so that wouldn't be much of a fight. Hardcore fans believe she might even be Yachiru level. Imo though, one broken god-mode character per manga is more than enough so I hope she's only about as powerful as Aizen.

rusashi

If Ulquiorra vs Ichigo wasn't so forcefully hyped up, I'd say Unohana and her VC vs Ulquiorra and Yammy.

GEPPETTOSMONSTER

i'm gonna laugh my ass off if Yammy is alot stronger than most people thought.

Moria

@GEPPETTOSMONSTER:

i'm gonna laugh my ass off if Yammy is alot stronger than most people thought.

Yammy got his shit fucked up by Pre-Vizard Ichigo. He sucks dick.

GEPPETTOSMONSTER

i'm not saying yammy is cool, i'm just gonna laugh my ass off if he was just playing stupid this whole entire time. You know that would be funny.

RuNa

YES YES YES YES

My original prediction of Stark being number 1 came true!!!! I love him!

Captain Shmeckie

@Elric:

So that crap on his shoulder isn't a slash?

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/237/20bg5.jpg

Not one that would cause that much blood. Look at all the liquid in Ulquiorra's panel.

Elric

@Captain:

Look at all the liquid in Ulquiorra's panel.

The only liquid in his panel you can identify as such is the liquid his sword is dripping with. You can't possibly distinguish between a dark floor and a black liquid in that raw and you certainly can't in the greasy mush of a "leveled" and "cleaned" scanlation. So what we have aside from Ulqui's sword and Itsygo are four drops in the panel at the upper left of page 19.

Phoenix Zoan

Knowing how Kubo does things by making every fucking side character on the roster fight. Yammi and Wonderweiss are probably VC fodder next arc.

Dark Lord Zenigame

I'd rather Kubo have all the sidecharacters fight, as opposed to him completely forgetting that they exist.

Hakuro de Killer

@Captain:

Not one that would cause that much blood. Look at all the liquid in Ulquiorra's panel.

Shmeckie, I didn't think I would have to tell you this:

"When you bring logic into a fantasy anime, god kills a main character."

Phoenix Zoan

@Dark:

I'd rather Kubo have all the sidecharacters fight, as opposed to him completely forgetting that they exist.

Powerwise VC don't hold any revelance to the story. I would rather have the higher tier fighters take center stage instead of Kubo having to make filler fodder just so the weaker side characters have someone to fight. Imagine how fast this arc would've been over if we didn't have to watch VC fodder and sorry learning VC Shikas is not character development or plot development. It's filler fanservice. Something Kubo could show in a panel when they reveal their weapon and attack somebody instead where stuck with 1-2 chapter of them explaining what it does. It's esspecially crap when we've already seen they're weapon and have to go to 1-2 chapters of weapon reveal filler again.

Ivotas

Bleh, if we wouldn't have those side characters (which lesser two dimensional then the main protagonist) fight then Bleach would have been long over considering that it's roughly more then two big rescue arcs so far.

Phoenix Zoan

How is Bleach being over exactly a bad thing? Series should've ended after the Soul Society arc back when it didn't suck. I wouldn't mind having group VC fights but screw this 1on1 filler garbage.

SeriusReader

Btw, people of Bleach, stands still almost 40% of page time…

FireFistAce 0

Yeah, Shikai reveal for VC's is a lot of filler, but it's what the majority of the readers want. They don't care about plot progression as long as "We get to see 'X person's' kickass Shikai". It's all a matter of taste…

At least we've seen everyone's Shikai in some form, except:

1. Yachiru
2. Nanao
3. Sasakibe (Well, we know it looks like a rapier, we dunno what it does)
4. Iba (We finally got a glimpse of what it looks like, but dunno what it does, although considering he used to be in the 11th it's probably just another straight fighting type)
5. Isane (Seen it, dunno what it does)
6. Nemu (Does she even have one?)
7. Momo (I think... did we see her Shikai yet?)

It's still a list, but I guess he'd rather get it out of the way sooner than later.

Ivotas

@Phoenix:

How is Bleach being over exactly a bad thing? Series should've ended after the Soul Society arc back when it didn't suck. I wouldn't mind having group VC fights but screw this 1on1 filler garbage.

Actually I found the fights of Yumichika, Shuhei and Kira a lot more entertaining than anything Ichigo pulled before or after his fight with Zaraki.

Moria

Speaking of which… Ikkaku didn't get a fight... WHAT THE FUCK

Phoenix Zoan

@Ivotas:

Bleh, if we wouldn't have those side characters (which lesser two dimensional then the main protagonist) fight then Bleach would have been long over considering that it's roughly more then two big rescue arcs so far.

Technically it's 1 rescue arc. This is the SS arc just recycled.

Someone gets kidnapped: Rukia/Orihime
Rescue team is formed having Ichigo, Chad, Ishida: Orihime/Rukia takes Orihime's place
Ichigo has a 1st Rival: Renji/Grimmjaw
1st Rival ends ups respecting Ichigo: Renji/Grimmjaw
2nd Rival for Ichigo: Byakkyu/Ulquorria
They find an ally in the place they invade: Hanatori, Ganryu/Desert Brothers
Kidnapped victim is saved and recaptured again: Rukia on tower by Byakkyu/Orihime by Stark
Something randomly turns into a hot girl: Yourichi/Nel
Chad wins and gets owned his next fight: Guy on roof, Shunsui/afro espada, NNotoria
Aizen has a twist motive: Get the Hyoukgyo, Destroy Karakura Town
Etc., etc.

Moria: Ikkaku had a fight but he was owned off panel since he didn't want to use his Bankai. He even got lectured about it the following chapter after the doggy captain won.

Ivotas

@Phoenix:

Technically it's 1 rescue arc. This is the SS arc just recycled.

Someone gets kidnapped: Rukia/Orihime
Rescue team is formed having Ichigo, Chad, Ishida: Orihime/Rukia takes Orihime's place
Ichigo has a 1st Rival: Renji/Grimmjaw
1st Rival ends ups respecting Ichigo: Renji/Grimmjaw
2nd Rival for Ichigo: Byakkyu/Ulquorria
They find an ally in the place they invade: Hanatori, Ganryu/Desert Brothers
Kidnapped victim is saved and recaptured again: Rukia on tower by Byakkyu/Orihime by Stark
Something randomly turns into a hot girl: Yourichi/Nel
Chad wins and gets owned his next fight: Guy on roof, Shunsui/afro espada, NNotoria
Aizen has a twist motive: Get the Hyoukgyo, Destroy Karakura Town
Etc., etc.

Even moreso reason to focus of the fights of the side characters because since we're having a terrible lack of plot the fights are the only entertaining stuff (as long as Ichigo isn't involved). I mean, even his punchlines are twodimensional and literally pointless.

Hakuro de Killer

@Phoenix:

Technically it's 1 rescue arc. This is the SS arc just recycled.

Someone gets kidnapped: Rukia/Orihime
Rescue team is formed having Ichigo, Chad, Ishida: Orihime/Rukia takes Orihime's place
Ichigo has a 1st Rival: Renji/Grimmjaw
1st Rival ends ups respecting Ichigo: Renji/Grimmjaw
2nd Rival for Ichigo: Byakkyu/Ulquorria
They find an ally in the place they invade: Hanatori, Ganryu/Desert Brothers
Kidnapped victim is saved and recaptured again: Rukia on tower by Byakkyu/Orihime by Stark
Something randomly turns into a hot girl: Yourichi/Nel
Chad wins and gets owned his next fight: Guy on roof, Shunsui/afro espada, NNotoria
Aizen has a twist motive: Get the Hyoukgyo, Destroy Karakura Town
Etc., etc.

Wow, am I an idiot for not noticing that or what? Well spotted. However, if I may correct you on some things:

Grimmjaw = Grimmjow
Ulquorria = Ulquiorra
Hanatori = Hanatarou
Ganryu = Ganju
Byakkyu = Byakuya
Hyoukgyo = Hougyoku

I normally don't correct people on spelling, but I have seen a little too much on these boards that it's annoyed me a tad. Honestly no offense to you, but people (generalized) are gonna keep spelling things wrong if they're not corrected on it.

–--

But yeah, you do make some valid points. Would this mean that there's a chance that Gin and Tousen would betray Aizen (being reminiscent of when Kyouraku and Ukitake turned their blades on Yamamoto however briefly)? Surely an interesting theory to be sure. Maybe Kubo's working off of the same template for this arc's story as he was in SS Arc?

Phoenix Zoan

Nah fuck the VC and this weaksauce Shikai reveals. I only cared about that before I even knew what a Bankai was. At this point in the series that some lame fanservice to want to see. I would rather see what the Vaizards can do. Knowing them they should have Bankai since some are former captains or maybe a released form like the arranacar. Which would actually give us a idea of where Ichigo's (main character) powers can be headed next.

Hakuro de killer: I normally check my spelling but I'm on a iphone and that'll be a pain in the ass thing to do. I actually had a way longer list with names spelled right but my iphone crashed in Safari so I lost everything I typed and had to do it again. So the 2nd time I went through it really fast.

Ivotas

Bankai isn't necessarily better then Shickai. I mean just look at Yumichika's real Shikai and compare it with Ichigo's Bankai. It is far more Bankai-esque then Ichigo's which is even more boring then any Shikai (which as small as it might be at least is some sort of released form). Grimmjow actually put it quite nicely when he asked Ichigo if all his Bankai does is to increase his friggin speed. Must have been something that Kubo's wife asked him all the time making him accidentally include the line in the manga.

Phoenix Zoan

@Ivotas:

Bankai isn't necessarily better then Shickai. I mean just look at Yumichika's real Shikai and compare it with Ichigo's Bankai. It is far more Bankai-esque then Ichigo's which is even more boring then any Shikai (which as small as it might be at least is some sort of released form). Grimmjow actually put it quite nicely when he asked Ichigo if all his Bankai does is to increase his friggin speed. Must have been something that Kubo's wife asked him all the time making him accidentally include the line in the manga.

I agree that Ichigo's Bankai is boring. All it is, is a black katana and a costume change. But his Bankai isn't your typical Bankai form. Traditionally they are supposed to be a bigger manifestation of the user's Shikai. This was talked about in the Ichigo vs. Byakuya fight when Ichigo first shown his Bankai. I guess since his Bankai's upgrade is speed based his weapon got condesed but it contains the power upgrade of your typical bigger weapon Bankai. Grimmjow's comment was him being a smart ass. Ichigo wasn't able to hurt him the first fight even with Bankai so the power gap was supposed to be huge from a high level Espada to a captain's level Bankai at the time. Ichigo didn't even do anything until he channeled his Hollow powers and did the black form of his attack.

Ivotas

@Phoenix:

I agree that Ichigo's Bankai is boring. All it is, is a black katana and a costume change. But his Bankai isn't your typical Bankai form. Traditionally they are supposed to be a bigger manifestation of the user's Shikai. This was talked about in the Ichigo vs. Byakuya fight when Ichigo first shown his Bankai. I guess since his Bankai's upgrade is speed based his weapon got condesed but it contains the power upgrade of your typical bigger weapon Bankai. Grimmjow's comment was him being a smart ass. Ichigo wasn't able to hurt him the first fight even with Bankai so the power gap was supposed to be huge from a high level Espada to a captain's level Bankai at the time. Ichigo didn't even do anything until he channeled his Hollow powers and did the black form of his attack.

So considering that you went that route instead of commenting on Yumichika's Shikai I take it then that you agree that there can be interesting Shikai's?

Phoenix Zoan

This post is deleted!

Phoenix Zoan

Yumichika's Shikai aren't your typical Shikais. Traditionally they're boring. We're now arguing the exceptions not the rule.

To be fair the only Shikai I actually would want to see is Kenpachi's since he still doesn't know his swords name. But he's also a exception since he's already as powerful as captain's that have Bankai. So for him that'll be the next logical power up.

SeriusReader

@Phoenix:

Yumichika's Shikai aren't your typical Shikais. Traditionally they're boring. We're now arguing the exceptions not the rule.

To be fair the only Shikai I actually would want to see is Kenpachi's since he still doesn't know his swords name. But he's also a exception since he's already as powerful as captain's that have Bankai. So for him that'll be the next logical power up.

I like to see that as well, only interesting character in Bleach. Expect those who got GIAN JUG–-boobies. Wow, that would be classy if Kenpachi's Bankai ends whole Bleach fighting in the end. THAT i call surprising ending, not generic ass ending "Kurosaki saves day" shit. And who the hell is Yumichika?

Phoenix Zoan

He's the 5th seat in the 11th division. Ikkaku's friend. He's the one always bitching about how great his face is. He fought Ganju over the pits at the beginning of the SS arc. Recently during this arc he's the one that fought the tranny looking fraccion. His Shikai's true release was the one where it turned into a rose and drains all of thier spiritual energy.

Ivotas

@Phoenix:

Yumichika's Shikai aren't your typical Shikais. Traditionally they're boring. We're now arguing the exceptions not the rule.

I'm aware that we're arguing the exception but I'm just trying to prove that Shikai's aren't necessarily boring. Other than that I actually pretty much love Kira's Shikai. It might not be spectacular but I find it pretty great.

To be fair the only Shikai I actually would want to see is Kenpachi's since he still doesn't know his swords name. But he's also a exception since he's already as powerful as captain's that have Bankai. So for him that'll be the next logical power up.

Zaraki is actually in Shikai mode. Remember him saying that his Soul Slayer doesn't have a sealed form? So its practically released the entire time just like Ichigos. However a Bankai is a different matter. Once he achieves that I'm sure the entire world will be destroyed.

Phoenix Zoan

Well it's hard to say until Kenpachi actually learns his sword name. Since usually theirs a spirit inside the sword that they learn the name from. Even Ichigo's sword has a spirit inside it. Kenpachi even tried to ask the sword's name after he lost to Ichigo. But got no answer. So it's possible his sword is already a full Shikai release like Ichigo but until Kenpachi actually learns its name it isn't confirmed. But just speculation until the time he says his sword's name and it stays the same or fransforms.

Hell one of the reasons I was looking forward to the Nnotoria fight was i expected Kenpachi to learn his sword name. Or to pull off a Bankai since he learned the sword's name from the spirit and trained enough to reach Bankai. You can say being disappointed was a understatement about the route Kubo went with it. Two-handed powerup really? Shit, I did a two-handed facepalm when I read that.

barkadat3p

Oh, he will probably do bankai in the fight against the vasto lordes (is that how you spell it?)…

Ivotas

@Phoenix:

Well it's hard to say until Kenpachi actually learns his sword name. Since usually theirs a spirit inside the sword that they learn the name from. Even Ichigo's sword has a spirit inside it. Kenpachi even tried to ask the sword's name after he lost to Ichigo. But got no answer. So it's possible his sword is already a full Shikai release like Ichigo but until Kenpachi actually learns its name it isn't confirmed. But just speculation until the time he says his sword's name and it stays the same or fransforms.

Erm, as I said it has been confirmed by the author himself when he mada Zaraki say that his swords doesn't have a sealed form. Since Shikai is the release of the sealed form it practically pretty much means that this is his Shikai.

On the other hand what you suggest might make pretty much sense considering how inconsistent Kubo is.

Hell one of the reasons I was looking forward to the Nnotoria fight was i expected Kenpachi to learn his sword name. Or to pull off a Bankai since he learned the sword's name from the spirit and trained enough to reach Bankai.. You can say being disappointed was a understatement about the route Kubo went with it. Two-handed powerup really? Shit, I did a two-handed facepalm when I read that.

Really? I must say that I was really pleased with the power up. It was totally within Zaraki's character to go for such a power up first (remember the right eye;) ). Think of it that way, a Zaraki Bankai would have been wasted on a guy like Noitra.

Phoenix Zoan

@barkadat3p:

Oh, he will probably do bankai in the fight against the vasto lordes (is that how you spell it?)…

With the route Kubo is going I wouldn't be surprised if his sword's spirit ended up being a spider and his Bankai ended up being a 8 handed sword attack that can cut the sky.

Ivotas: I agree that he's inconsistent and maybe the whole sword spirit thing has been dropped after SS.. Since aside from Ichigo and Ikkaku's sword spirit appearing when he was learning Bankai nobody really talks about sword spirits anymore. But if Kubo said that's his fully released sword sounds like he dropped that plot line and went with lame two-handed powerups. But then again that was the only onscren Bankai training we got so he may reintroduce the sword spirit concept if anyone (VC/Kenpachi) learns Bankai later on.

SeriusReader

Ah that… guy i guess, yeah. Not amuzing shikai but kind of handy, doh, its boring. Oh and that TWO-HAND power up was very... rare, but boring as hell. God damn it, learn your swords name already spike head.

Ivotas

Why the haste you guys? Do you really want Bleach to end that much that Zaraki ends it all once he goes Bankai? Leave that for when the Vast Lords and Squad 0 comes into play. Before that he should have other "let's use both" power ups. Perhaps he'll use both ears next in order to double the focus of his senses. ;)