How Can BB beat WB?

Kirin D. Cross

Problem is, when have we ever seen smoker being considered shikibukai lvl?

shickibukai level is so different though. I mean look at the difference in a person like croc and a person like mihawk, HUGE difference. Im not going against you here or anything, but since smoker has about the same mastery of his fruit like croc, and smoker doesnt have a natural weakness I think that would put him at a level for SB..

I personally don't care about enel, I am anti-filler arc.

Enel wasnt filler arc

Also, when have we seen aokiji take a punch? As a logia we have never seen him take one. We have no clue to his physical abilities.

we saw him take a pistol from luffy to the stomach.

freedom

WOW WHITEBEARD. You took half of what I said and turned it into a debate. Good job!

@freedom:

Even accounting "logical" assumptions, to say that (what's a good number) 20 people are stronger than Ace out of like what, 20,000 makes him mid-tier, actually, probably more like 100,000 characters in the MHQ and Pirates is still ridiculous IMO.

Here's the rest of what I said for those of you who got side-tracked by the Ace vs. Smoker debate.
4 yonkou + 4 1st mates of yonkou (will give you this) + 7 shichibukai (BB assumed) + 3 admirals + 12 other random high ranked marines (includes Smoker - who I think is an anomaly just like Aokiji). I'm just giving away characters that can pimpslap Ace. That's a grand total of 30 characters. We know there were at least 10,000 soldiers at EL, so let's say that there are 20,000 people making up all marines and all pirates. 30/20,000 = 0.15%

Ok. I now see. Ace is definitely mid-tier, he's not in the top 0.15% of OP characters. Of course I don't expect a linear distribution for bottom, middle, top. But even saying 90% canon fodder, 5% bottom, 4% mid, and 1% top, I just don't see how you guys are classifying Ace this way. I think it's simply b/c of his lost to BB, and I think you're being unfair to his character. But anyways, I guess only the super elitist top 0.01% are worthy of the "title" "top tier".

ONEinchPUNCH

Freedom it isn't how many people are in front of him in power, it's how big that gap is.

After re-reading that fight with BB I've just noticed how one sided that fight really was. BB destroyed ace, the gap in power was very large, so ace looks mid-tier compared to the 10+ characters in front of him.

He may be situated in the top 20 (so far) in OP, but the strength difference of those people in front of him is massive.

This makes him mid-tier ,not in position but in strength

WHITEBEARD

Ace is strong but not a Big Timer.

Mid-tier and The Big Timers are two diff things. If you think Mid-tier and Big Timers are the samething the mid-tier fighter ends up like this.

Big Tmers vs Mid-tier.

There 6 Big timer above Ace just wait till we see them all.
(Wonder how many will be above him when we see them all?)

freedom

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Freedom it isn't how many people are in front of him in power, it's how big that gap is.

After re-reading that fight with BB I've just noticed how one sided that fight really was. BB destroyed ace, the gap in power was very large, so ace looks mid-tier compared to the 10+ characters in front of him.

He may be situated in the top 20 (so far) in OP, but the strength difference of those people in front of him is massive.

This makes him mid-tier ,not in position but in strength

Well I'm glad you recognize the gap between Ace and BB. This gap is what makes me think BB is a real monster in that he easily did away w/ Ace (someone I consider a top-tier fighter). Maybe our analysis of the ranking is a different. I'm ranking Ace relative to everyone while you're perhaps ranking Ace relative to everyone in the top tier category. If I use your angle, then I could see your point, but I think it's an unfair analysis of Ace's abilities. There are often anomalies among top contenders, with one contender completely outmatching the other in some cases. To me, the point of the gap difference between BB and Ace was to show BB's power, not to put down Ace's.

AD-HD Pirate

Ace is definetely in top-tier. But that raises a question.
Since he and Smoker are equals, is Smoker in top-tier too?

ONEinchPUNCH

Well if you really want freedom we can use this system instead

Ace = top-tier fighter

3 great power fighters = Ultra top-tier fighters

The point I'm trying to make is Ace is on a difeerent level to the Ultra top-tier. He is strong but against the best he won't be able to do much.

They truly are monsters.

AD-HD Pirate

They truly are monsters.

I don't doubt that at all but if Ace and Crocodile would match, which one do you think that would win?
Ace of course. And Crocodile was monster too.

WHITEBEARD

@Fire Fist:

Quit saying that Ace got his damn rocks handed to him (And no, I'm not an Ace fanboy. For the reason I named myself "Fire Fist" Ace, PM me).

I already prove that Smoker will sink Ace.

Now BB handed ace his rock did you not read the chapter?????

I can post more scan up for ya.

onemoment

@WHITEBEARD:

Ace is strong but not a Big Timer.

Mid-tier and The Big Timers are two diff things. If you think Mid-tier and Big Timers are the samething the mid-tier fighter ends up like this.
[qimg]http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/bbbbb.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/441 - 10.jpg[/qimg]
Big Tmers vs Mid-tier.

There 6 Big timer above Ace just wait till we see them all.
(Wonder how many will be above him when we see them all?)

No, the result of the match doesn't decide that Ace is mid tier.

To be mid-tier, you have to be in the middle…of the tier.

Since this "tier" is so large, by default Ace isn't mid tier. He's a top quality fighter, hence why BB beating Ace was a big deal. You can't compare him to Whitebeard and say he's mid-tier, cause Whitebeard is on top of the tier.

However, Ace is comparable to Aokiji, and probably some admirals and shichibuaki too. Maybe one yonkou too, but that's a stretch. Hey, Mihawk and the shichibukai seem to live in the New world easier enough, so the all yonkou don't need to be that strong,

I mean, saying that Aokiji would win could of experience is...uncertain logic. Ace has experience too, and has attacks that can definitely melt ice.

The point is, Ace is pretty strong. BB is stronger, and so are a few other guys, but...middle tier?

As for Smoker, he's strong too. But it's tough to compare logia's period. We can't really say who'd win against each other. Element advantage's aren't certain, cause when you think about it, if you have more of one element that will always win. The "pokemon system" of element advantage is a myth.

And let's quit classifying people. It's retarded. Crocodile is a shichibukai, but without people like him "shichibukai" wouldn't mean a damn thing.

What the hell does, Big timer, mean WHITEBEARD? Ace is a big timer compared to a lot of people. A member of Whitebeard's crew alone could be considered a big timer.

It's just a needless classification of people. And frankly, it seems like an unfair way to call Ace weak just cause he lost. BB could be as strong as Whitebeard now for all we know. And really...we know nothing about this series. It's cryptic on purpose.

freedom

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Well if you really want freedom we can use this system instead

Ace = top-tier fighter

3 great power fighters = Ultra top-tier fighters

The point I'm trying to make is Ace is on a difeerent level to the Ultra top-tier. He is strong but against the best he won't be able to do much.

They truly are monsters.

I could live with that, but isn't this a contradiction to you and WHITEBEARD's stating BB is not in this league? or did I misunderstand?

WHITEBEARD

@freedom:

I could live with that, but isn't this a contradiction to you and WHITEBEARD's stating BB is not in this league? or did I misunderstand?

BB is a Big Timer. I never said he was not.

ONEinchPUNCH

@AD-HD:

I don't doubt that at all but if Ace and Crocodile would match, which one do you think that would win?
Ace of course. And Crocodile was monster too.

Throwing sand on a fire extinguishes it, so if they go logia vs logia croc would probably win.

But I still say Ace would win he would fight like luffy did and win, but croc isn't ultra top-tier. Croc is top-tier if you want to use the new rating system or he is mid-tier with the old one.

AD-HD Pirate

I already prove that Smoker will sink Ace.

No you haven't. You are relying Smoker's seastone jitten, but Ace has his big-ass jambiya. With that you can defence yourself against that jitten.

And ONEinchPUNCH, fire melts sand.

WHITEBEARD

I mean, saying that Aokiji would win could of experience is…uncertain logic. Ace has experience too, and has attacks that can definitely melt ice.

Aokiji is the strongest admiral so who do you think he would fight if a war came about????

The point is, Ace is pretty strong. BB is stronger, and so are a few other guys, but…middle tier?

I see what you mean But ace is not a Big timer.

As for Smoker, he's strong too. But it's tough to compare logia's period. We can't really say who'd win against each other. Element advantage's aren't certain, cause when you think about it, if you have more of one element that will always win. The "pokemon system" of element advantage is a myth.

@ anyone who thinks ace is equal to smoker.

Smoker can kill off oxygen Ace needs oxygen to get a fire going plus smoker has sea stone.

freedom

@onemoment:

No, the result of the match doesn't decide that Ace is mid tier.

To be mid-tier, you have to be in the middle…of the tier.

Since this "tier" is so large, by default Ace isn't mid tier. He's a top quality fighter, hence why BB beating Ace was a big deal. You can't compare him to Whitebeard and say he's mid-tier, cause Whitebeard is on top of the tier.

However, Ace is comparable to Aokiji, and probably some admirals and shichibuaki too. Maybe one yonkou too, but that's a stretch. Hey, Mihawk and the shichibukai seem to live in the New world easier enough, so the all yonkou don't need to be that strong,

I mean, saying that Aokiji would win could of experience is...uncertain logic. Ace has experience too, and has attacks that can definitely melt ice.

The point is, Ace is pretty strong. BB is stronger, and so are a few other guys, but...middle tier?

As for Smoker, he's strong too. But it's tough to compare logia's period. We can't really say who'd win against each other. Element advantage's aren't certain, cause when you think about it, if you have more of one element that will always win. The "pokemon system" of element advantage is a myth.

I said this over and over before, but it's always ignored. There's alot of mixing of categories in these debates. I've asked for the list of people who can definitely defeat Ace, and I get a list of assumptions and speculation.

Random blurping - For all we know, Logias are so rare, they're not considered in the ranking system. Till we see canon evidence of a "technique" to defeat logias w/o using the "device" (i.e. seastone or counter element) needed, there's just no proof on how many can defeat them. Add this to Ace's command and experience, and you've got a monster. This is why I think it's unfair (at least at this point) to say Ace is mid-tier.

*disclaimer - saying, the SBS states Enel wouldn't rule b/c there are crazier guys on the blue sea. guys is plural and plural could be two guys.

AD-HD Pirate

Smoker kill off oxygen Ace needs oxygen to get a fire going plus smoker has sea stone.

Nope. Read what Ace says here:

Ace: You may be "smoke", but I'm "fire".
Your powers don't stand a chance against mine.

That is Oda speaking with Ace's lips. Try arque with that, this will be fun.

And that seastone jitten, here you go:

No you haven't. You are relying Smoker's seastone jitten, but Ace has his big-ass jambiya. With that you can defence yourself against that jitten.

onemoment

@WHITEBEARD:

Aokiji is the strongest admiral so who do you think he would fight if a war came about????

Er…a bunch of soldiers. They don't let people go through a series of one on one fights in war...

I see what you mean But ace is not a Big timer.

Then what is a big timer. Spell is out for us, Whitebeard in all caps. I want to see that "list of big timers." Cause if the shichbukai and admirals are on it, then Ace could be in it. Just cause he lost to BB does mean that Ace can't beat Donflamingo.

@ anyone who thinks ace is equal to smoker.

Smoker can kill off oxygen Ace needs oxygen to get a fire going plus smoker has sea stone.

That also didn't come up in their last fight…

But tell me, how can Smoke kill off all the oxygen in the world? It seems like a short sighted idea. That and, does Aces's fire come from oxygen or his "magic fruit?" Aokiji could produce ice in a warm area...

Throwing sand on a fire extinguishes it, so if they go logia vs logia croc would probably win.

But I still say Ace would win he would fight like luffy did and win, but croc isn't ultra top-tier. Croc is top-tier if you want to use the new rating system or he is mid-tier with the old one.

Think of it this way. Throw a handful of sand into a fireplace. No difference to the fire.

Throw a desert ontop of a match. The sand wins.

Throw a handful of sand into a burning building. The fire wins.

It really depends on who produces more element. Does Croc have anything as big as that "solar emperor" attack?

ONEinchPUNCH

@AD-HD:

No you haven't. You are relying Smoker's seastone jitten, but Ace has his big-ass jambiya. With that you can defence yourself against that jitten.

And ONEinchPUNCH, fire melts sand.

To melt the sand ace would need crocodile to stand still for a few minutes (or more) and let ace melt him. If you throw sand directly onto a fire it deprives it of oxygen and the fire goes out.

So No crocodile would win in a logia vs logia fight, ace would win he he fought how he pleased.

freedom

@WHITEBEARD:

Aokiji is the strongest admiral so who do you think he would fight if a war came about????

I see what you mean But ace is not a Big timer.

@ anyone who thinks ace is equal to smoker.

Smoker can kill off oxygen Ace needs oxygen to get a fire going plus smoker has sea stone.

I couldn't NOT respond to this. If you apply RL rules, then Enel should have melted Luffy, not to mention that everyone on Skypiea should be dead. Why don't you go look up how many amps it takes to kill someone and how many amps are in a bolt of lightening.

This is fiction, and even the elementals (logias) have consciousness. Meaning, things won't always go as they would in RL. Sand covers up fire cutting off oxygen causing the fire to extinguish, at the same time, if the fire is hot enough, sand will turn into glass. So who knows.

I mean, you'd think WB (The Strongest Man) would have his 4 commanders be top tier fighters, or maybe WB does all the fighting himself.

WHITEBEARD

@AD-HD:

Nope. Read what Ace says here:
That is Oda speaking with Ace's lips. Try arque with that, this will be fun.
And that seastone jitten, here you go:

Are you 4 real.

Smoker can kill off oxygen Ace needs oxygen. but I leave this out.

Who ran??????

and you say Ace has a knife HUH? well Smoker is well rounded in close range combat.(look what he did luffy)

We all know Ace is not. plus smoker will be able to use his DF powers while Aces powers will be cancel.

Onemoment whats stoping Aokiji from freezing Ace??????

ONEinchPUNCH

This is fiction, and even the elementals (logias) have consciousness. Meaning, things won't always go as they would in RL. Sand covers up fire cutting off oxygen causing the fire to extinguish, at the same time, if the fire is hot enough, sand will turn into glass. So who knows.

Can't really argue this all I can say is croc has more experience with his fruit. So his logia should be stronger than aces, which will make his sand stronger.

Usually elements weaknesses are extremely powerful against them and cause them to lose their powers.

e.g water for croc, so maybe aces weakness is sand

I can't prove that but having more experience with the fruit in OP is most likely victory material.

AD-HD Pirate

Are you 4 real.

Yes I am.

Smoker can kill off oxygen Ace needs oxygen. but I leave this out.

Read Freedom's and onemoment's posts.

Who ran??????

He was busy to meet his little bro.

and you say Ace has a knife HUH? well Smoker is well rounded in close range combat.(look what he did luffy)

And how do we know that Ace is not?

plus smoker will be able to use his DF powers while Aces powers will be cancel.

You really underestimate Ace.

WHITEBEARD

@ONEinchPUNCH:

e.g water for croc, so maybe aces weakness is sand

I can't prove that but having more experience with the fruit in OP is most likely victory material.

I agree…..............

WHITEBEARD

He was busy to meet his little bro.

thanks for agreeing with me. anything else you say about that is an excuse.

And how do we know that Ace is not?

Well he got hit 2 times by BB a Big Timer. Ace cough up his guts.

You really underestimate Ace.

No it just that when your powers are gone and the other guys powers are still there with an advantage over you its not that hard to tell who is going to win.

onemoment

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Can't really argue this all I can say is croc has more experience with his fruit. So his logia should be stronger than aces, which will make his sand stronger.

You only assume that Croc has more expierence, or is even better with the fruit. You assume this cause Croc looks old. Look at their abilities. Ace and Croc are good with their fruits.

That and, Croc with all his experience couldn't even keep up with Luffy in hand-to-hand combat. Ace is supposedly about as strong as Luffy.

That and, the value expereince varies person to person. Some people never learn. Croc looks old, yet Kuma and Domflaminfo seem young, and have higher bounties.

freedom

@ONEinchPUNCH:

Can't really argue this all I can say is croc has more experience with his fruit. So his logia should be stronger than aces, which will make his sand stronger.

Usually elements weaknesses are extremely powerful against them and cause them to lose their powers.

e.g water for croc, so maybe aces weakness is sand

I can't prove that but having more experience with the fruit in OP is most likely victory material.

Experience is an interesting thing. We know Ace has 3 years experience on Luffy. Now what we don't know is if Ace progressed at Luffy's rate. If we assume he did, then do you still think Croc would win against Ace. If we assume he didn't, then he's at least experienced enough to earn WB's commander position. Unless you think these are meaningless. On one hand, i think Ace's victory is hands down, on the other hand, i think it's close.

WHITEBEARD

@freedom:

Experience is an interesting thing. We know Ace has 3 years experience on Luffy. Now what we don't know is if Ace progressed at Luffy's rate. If we assume he did, then do you still think Croc would win against Ace. If we assume he didn't, then he's at least experienced enough to earn WB's commander position. Unless you think these are meaningless. On one hand, i think Ace's victory is hands down, on the other hand, i think it's close.

Why cant the same thing be said about Aokiji??????????

He is the strongest navy guy.

Aokiji on the list.

AD-HD Pirate

thanks for agreeing with me. anything else you say about that is an excuse.

I wasn't agreeing with you. Ace was busy, that is why he didn't fight. Only reason.

Well he got hit 2 times by BB a Big Timer. cough up his guts

And? After that Auger says:

Van Auger: I had always thought the Power Users were a brittle lot,
over-relying on their Powers and helpless without them.
But I see that when it comes to Whitebeard's own battle commander…
The man excels in basic battle ability as well...!!!
Today brings us yet another branch…
On the path of fate...

No it just that when your powers are gone and the other guys powers are still there with an advantage over you its not that hard to tell who is going to win.

Not if he defend himself with that jambiya.

WHITEBEARD

I wasn't agreeing with you. Ace was busy, that is why he didn't fight. Only reason.

He ran stop making excuses

And? After that Auger says:

He still spit up his guts.

Not if he defend himself with that jambiya.

Let me make this simple.

You say they are equal.

Give one (smoker and his sea tone) an advantage who is going to win?????

freedom

@WHITEBEARD:

thanks for agreeing with me. anything else you say about that is an excuse.

Well he got hit 2 times by BB a Big Timer. Ace cough up his guts.

No it just that when your powers are gone and the other guys powers are still there with an advantage over you its not that hard to tell who is going to win.

You're a harsh judge. I'm glad you don't judge anything I do.
Baseing Ace's tier and abilities off of his fight w/ BB is unfair IMO. It has nothing to do w/ who won the fight or how easily he won the fight. The fight was to show BB's emergence and to indicate he's a force to be reckoned with.

EDIT: @WHITEBEARD - i've already given you the 3 admirals and 4 yonkou + their 4 1st mates + shichibukai as characters capable of defeating Ace. I don't see why you're bringing this up again. My point was to establish how ludicrous it is to say Ace is mid-tier.

I find it interesting how you're willing to admit that BB's a "Big Timer" as you like to use that phrase, yet you think he's miles away from the yonkou, and yet at the same time, you think he's shichibukai level and the shichibukai are on par with the yonkou in your opinion. It's truely some confusing stuff :wassat: or did I misunderstand again?

GenoLacan

I feel like this thread is all about who is a big timer or not…well they are both big timer in the aspect of OP...the narration at the end suggest that this battle will lead to a great incident. From what i could tell oda was trying to show the collison of two giants(one can tell that from the reactions of the island people. Oda i feel was trying to show what luffy and the rest of the world was up against, considering that Ace lost against BB

AD-HD Pirate

He ran

Because he was busy.

He still spit up his guts.

Yes, you point? BB is much more better than him.

Let me make this simple.

You say they are equal.

Give one (smoker and his sea tone) an advantage who is going to win?????

Ace has his jambiya. He can defend himself. You are underestimating Ace.

I don't get you. Not at all.
Oda clearly wants to show us that they are equal, but still you don't believe him?

SabZ

WHITEBEARD isn't a harsh judge… he's just a little kid on the internet ignoring other people's posts and making out he is always 100% right.

I'd class Ace very high. Though a big timer...? Depends on your definition of it.

ONEinchPUNCH

You only assume that Croc has more expierence, or is even better with the fruit. You assume this cause Croc looks old. Look at their abilities. Ace and Croc are good with their fruits.

Wrong, I assume this because croc has had more time to explore with his logia. Logia fruits don't get stronger with physical training they get stronger
through exploration. I use aokiji as an example.

That and, the value expereince varies person to person. Some people never learn. Croc looks old, yet Kuma and Domflaminfo seem young, and have higher bounties.

These two aren't logia's.

That and, Croc with all his experience couldn't even keep up with Luffy in hand-to-hand combat. Ace is supposedly about as strong as Luffy.

Croc owned luffy twice, he then lost because his logias powers were made worthless.

@ freedom

Experience is an interesting thing. We know Ace has 3 years experience on Luffy. Now what we don't know is if Ace progressed at Luffy's rate. If we assume he did, then do you still think Croc would win against Ace. If we assume he didn't, then he's at least experienced enough to earn WB's commander position. Unless you think these are meaningless. On one hand, i think Ace's victory is hands down, on the other hand, i think it's close.

Luffy's fruit gets stronger through physical training logias get stronger through experience in using the fruit or exploration.

Ace all around is far stronger than croc but in a logia vs logia only, croc would win.

Sand extinguishes fire if thrown on top of it. Sand must remain near fire not on top, to be melted. Croc has more experience with the fruit so it is natural his sand has become very strong, as we've seen its harder than stone.

Ace hasn't had his fruit as long which means it's less developed than crocs, so in logia ve logia I have to give croc victory.

In a fight ace wins.

WHITEBEARD

You're a harsh judge. I'm glad you don't judge anything I do.
Baseing Ace's tier and abilities off of his fight w/ BB is unfair IMO. It has nothing to do w/ who won the fight or how easily he won the fight. The fight was to show BB's emergence and to indicate he's a force to be reckoned with.

2 hits feedom 2 hits.

EDIT: @WHITEBEARD - i've already given you the 3 admirals and 4 yonkou + their 4 1st mates + shichibukai as characters capable of defeating Ace. I don't see why you're bringing this up again. My point was to establish how ludicrous it is to say Ace is mid-tier.

OK ace is strong but not a big timer. wait till we see all the player in the one piece world.

I find it interesting how you're willing to admit that BB's a "Big Timer" as you like to use that phrase, yet you think he's miles away from the yonkou, and yet at the same time, you think he's shichibukai level and the shichibukai are on par with the yonkou in your opinion. It's truely some confusing stuff :wassat: or did I misunderstand again?

I think you mis understood.

WHITEBEARD

Because he was busy.

He still ran you are agreeing with me.

Yes, you point? BB is much more better than him.

If ace was a Big timer he would have lasted alot longer then 3 hits.

Ace has his jambiya. He can defend himself. You are underestimating Ace.

I don't get you. Not at all.
Oda clearly wants to show us that they are equal, but still you don't believe him?

They are equal when Smoker dont use his sea stone.

what your saying is like saying 2 boxers are equal. Ok give one a gun/advantage (smoker and his sea stone) who do you think is going to win?

SabZ

He didn't run because he was scared or weak, because he was busy.

Ace did last longer than 3 hits… he was still standing wasn't he?

You're basing strength on weapons and gadgets, WHITEBEARD.

AD-HD Pirate

He still ran you are agreeing with me.

But that wasn't because he was scared or anything. He was busy.
You don't fight when you are busy. Get that?

If ace was a Big timer he would have lasted alot longer then 3 hits.

We didn't see all of that battle.

They are equal when Smoker dont use his sea stone.

You are forgetting Ace's jambiya. And that he obviously have skills with it. It isn't there for fun. He probably used it before he got his DF.

freedom

@ONEinchPUNCH:

@ freedom

Luffy's fruit gets stronger through physical training logias get stronger through experience in using the fruit or exploration.

Ace all around is far stronger than croc but in a logia vs logia only, croc would win.

Sand extinguishes fire if thrown on top of it. Sand must remain near fire not on top, to be melted. Croc has more experience with the fruit so it is natural his sand has become very strong, as we've seen its harder than stone.

Ace hasn't had his fruit as long which means it's less developed than crocs, so in logia ve logia I have to give croc victory.

In a fight ace wins.

That's true, logia, paramecia, zoan experience and development are different. However, I still think my point is valid. I also think you should do a bit more research on turning sand into glass. There are some interesting things that can turn sand into molten glass instantly.

I just noticed you posted again WHITEBEARD. 2 hits you say. You really think we saw the entire fight, and I believe there are actually 3 hits displayed in the fight. The 1st punch to the stomach, and then the following punch that sends Ace flying. The angle and articulation of BB's arm don't match that of a punch to the stomach IMO. The next punch is the smack to the head. Anyways, we didn't see the entire fight. We're just shown enough to demonstrate the clear victor.

though it isnt really ontopic ..
but wasnt said smoker would've been promoted to (vice)admiral if he would listen to orders (back in loque town arc)?
(~not shure abt that~)

anyway i bet we will never see a "who beats who - rankingtable" by oda.

ONEinchPUNCH

@AD-HD:

You are forgetting Ace's jambiya. And that he obviously have skills with it. It isn't there for fun. He probably used it before he got his DF.

Why would ace try and block a physical strike? he is a logia he would let it go straight through him, that is when he loses.

Smoker doesn't go around shouting "LOOK EVERYONE I HAVE A SEASTONE JUTTE" That would void any advantage he would have, so please refrain from saying ace knows it's seastone.

WHITEBEARD

@freedom:

I just noticed you posted again WHITEBEARD. 2 hits you say. You really think we saw the entire fight, and I believe there are actually 3 hits displayed in the fight. The 1st punch to the stomach, and then the following punch that sends Ace flying. The angle and articulation of BB's arm don't match that of a punch to the stomach IMO. The next punch is the smack to the head. Anyways, we didn't see the entire fight. We're just shown enough to demonstrate the clear victor.

Ace still got his ass handed to him BB was ZEhahahaha all day while ace was bleeding all over the place you think that was a fight? 3 hits

LOL

AD HD

like I said before you said that smoker and ace are equal right?

give one an advantage who is going to win. in fact smoker the one with that advantage. Sea stone!

Kirin D. Cross

Okay In my opinion I dont think ace has been at it long enough to be a Big Timer.. I mean IMO they would be

The Yonkou, because they are the four greatest pirates above all others so the other two must be great in strength too..
Aokiji and presumably the other 2 admirals.. But aokiji for sure
Mihawk
Sengoku
BB
Dragon-if you consider him even if he isnt on the GL

all of those people except Dragon and the Two Yonkous we know for an absolute fact have been strong for a good amount of time..
WB was a rival 20 years ago to Roger
Shanks was a Yonkou or a well known pirate for at least 10 years
Aokiji had his DF 20 years ago, along with the VA rank
BB has been on WBs ship for decades, and shanks fears his rise in power..
Sengoku obviously mentioned by WB, and I think was said to be an admiral back in the Ohara incident, and I think he is very powerful.

All of those have experience, and lots of it.. I also think of people that are close to that level of big timer would be like Garp, Smoker, and Possibly another SB..

And as for the croc arguement, I dont think that he was overly powerful, although he was strong.. He isnt at the high level in no way..

AD-HD Pirate

so please refrain from saying ace knows it's seastone.

Maybe after one hit Ace can realize that what that jutte really is, don't you think?

like I said before you said that smoker and ace are equal right?

give one an advantage who is going to win. in fact smoker the one with that advantage.

You clearly don't know how to read.

SabZ

The word "big timer" is defined differently by different people. That is the reason why this is a stupid debate.

WHITEBEARD

@AD-HD:

You clearly don't know how to read.

They are equal right? (smoker and ace logia powers)

Now how has an advantage Smoker does. (sea stone stops ace and his logia powers)

Impel Down

After being hit by the Sea Stone jutte, assuming you know what Sea Stone is, I think you'd be able to realize it's a Sea Stone jutte if you're a DF user. Like when Wiper hit Eneru with Sea Stone, he could tell.

WHITEBEARD

@Impel:

After being hit by the Sea Stone jutte, assuming you know what Sea Stone is, I think you'd be able to realize it's a Sea Stone jutte if you're a DF user. Like when Wiper hit Eneru with Sea Stone, he could tell.

b/c it cancels his powers. Ace will know 2 but when he finds out it will be over.

ONEinchPUNCH

@freedom:

That's true, logia, paramecia, zoan experience and development are different. However, I still think my point is valid. I also think you should do a bit more research on turning sand into glass. There are some interesting things that can turn sand into molten glass instantly.

Your point is valid but remember this isn't real life. Croc has had more experience with his fruit so his sand power has become stronger than aces fire power.

e.g Croc just got his fruit yesterday his sand melting point would be equal to normal sand. Croc trains for (lets say) 5 years his melting point has become 5x higher.

So with ace less experience fruit he wouldn't be able to get his fire hot enough to melt croc's higher level sand.

Now croc vs ace (logia vs logia) with equal experience ace would win. But croc is more experienced with higher level sand so he wins, OP works like that.

However I agree ace would beat croc in a fight since ace would do whatever he pleases.

Do you agree now or am I still wrong?

@AD-HD:

Maybe after one hit Ace can realize that what that jutte really is, don't you think?

If he did hit you I'd agree but smoker doesn't hit people with it, he stabs you with it and keeps it in contact with your body.

So if he got ace with it the fight would be over.