If Aokiji's powers were the basis of the fridge's creation, yes it probably counts.
Chapter 510 "Straw Hat Crew vs. Combat Weapon" Discussion
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If Aokiji's powers were the basis of the fridge's creation, yes it probably counts.
Well Kizaru's powers aren't the basis of the Kumabot's weapon. The term doesn't apply to the functions of a device but to the device itself as far as I know. You can't reverse engineer a beam but only a beam emitter. Reproducing a given effect of a device by different means isn't reverse engineering but gives us some new device.
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Fair enough. Either way my initial point stands: Vegapunk has created something similar to an ability used by Kizaru. If Drake's comment is accurate*, it can be considered based on Kizaru's beams. That in mind, if Vegapunk can duplicate an aspect of one Devil Fruit power, what's to stop him from doing the same with another power? If he can do this, what's to stop him putting multiple DF-based abilities on a single Pacifista? And, on top of all that, since these abilities are science based and not DF based, the two-DF rule does not apply so a Pacifista can still eat a Devil Fruit proper.
*I will concede Drake's comments about the Kumabeam being Kizaru's may not be accurate. Though I believe they are, for storytelling purposes if nothing else (a clue in to the readers rather than an example of what Drake knows)
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That's what reverse-engineering is, though. Taking something that exists (in this case, the "beam" aspect of Kizaru's light-abilities, as identified by Drake), learning how it works, and recreating it through accessible means. And assuming he didn't work it out through some other means (unlikely, if Drake is correct), that's what Vegapunk has done.
but in order for Vegapunk to do something along those lines means that he is duplicating DF powers which leads to a mass production of DF. Shit is crazy and confusing and needs more clarification from ODa.
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I don't think so. It's not mass production of Devil Fruit, just of abilities they grant.
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I will concede Drake's comments about the Kumabeam being Kizaru's may not be accurate. Though I believe they are, for storytelling purposes if nothing else (a clue in to the readers rather than an example of what Drake knows)
Oda is using VP to introduce contemporary technology and science fiction into the manga. Of course the denizens of Odaverse can only compare it to what they know. We look at the Kumabot and see a laser cannon whereas Drake is talking about "Kizaru's offensive power".
I'm afraid what'll happen if we actually pay a visit to mecha island. Oda might totally lose it.
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Who is faster btw, real Kuma or Kizaru?
Here is the point: We or them ain't see when Kuma moves instantly. When Kizaru move's in battle, he goes place to place with that ray of light? With that attack, "Yata no kagami" ? But when he moves in battle to battle (apoo to drake) he moves just fast. So is he fast or not? Now i can't choise who is faster. And don't say Lucky Roux, he is diffrent class than these snails.
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Something about Kizaru just occurred to me. He wears sunglasses.
Now, this could very easily mean nothing whatsoever. Just an aspect of his design, no more and no less. But this is a what if, so I'm going to assume otherwise. what if, rather than be a item Oda had him wear because his light-powers, he wears the glasses because of his light-powers? We've seen him use his powers to blind, so what if, without his sunglasses, Kizaru is equally vulnerable to his own powers?
I noticed something that goes along with this. Every time Kizaru attacks someone his eyes are closed, except for the last attack against Hawkins. I think it very well could be that he could blind himself, which would be absolutely hilarious. It's definitely something to think about.
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I think Logias in general are probably vulnerable to it. It seemed like he attacked strawman Hawkins with a blinding attack precisely because he wasn't sure if Hawkins was a Logia or not (i.e. he went with something that'd work either way).
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Teleportation > Speed.
And my dog's name is bingo.
Next: WTF? Kizaru fear's/ain't like Logia user's, when he say's that to Hawkins… so it seems.
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Next: WTF? Kizaru fear's/ain't like Logia user's, when he say's that to Hawkins… so it seems.
For a "master of writing" you really do suck at it.
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This post is deleted!
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Yeah, I'm gonna say Kizaru is a super-powererful logia type.
Light Light no mai. -
_Something about Kizaru just occurred to me. He wears sunglasses.
Now, this could very easily mean nothing whatsoever. Just an aspect of his design, no more and no less. But this is a what if, so I'm going to assume otherwise. what if, rather than be a item Oda had him wear because his light-powers, he wears the glasses because of his light-powers? We've seen him use his powers to blind, so what if, without his sunglasses, Kizaru is equally vulnerable to his own powers?_
Guys I'm seeing Kizaru as a Bruce Lee reference to Kareem Abdul Jabar's character in Tower of Death.
Kareem kicked the shit out of Bruce until Bruce took his shades and kicked open a window to blind him. Then he took a cheap shot.
Look at the height difference! Is that another reference?! (I know Aokiji was tall too)And most likely Kizaru's suit is yellow with black stripes so even his suit is a reference to Bruce Lee! I'm so happy ^_^!!
One Piece finally has their Bruce Lee character, and he owns!!I agree with sgamer. This could possibly be Kizaru's weakness.
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Speaking of Chopper, didn't he use a rumble ball recently right after they saved Camei? It seems like enough time has passed for the effect to wear off, but not enough time to use another one without difficulty. Why is he able to go back into his rumble points so soon? Maybe he's been working on the problem off-panel after his fight with Kumadori.
That's a very good point.
That can mean up to 3 things.
1. Chopper was taking the risk of not getting the point he wants while fighting Kuma bot.
2. Chopper has done some off screen stuff to improve upon his rumble ball or concentration or whatever needed to overcome that. (heck, we never found out about the aspect of Usopp's weapon until an arc later)
3. We are underestimating how much time has passed. It seems like only an hour at most has passed since he punched tenryuubito, but could be up to 6 I guess. (we really don't know how long it would take to go from say grove 1 to grove 13. how long they talked ect. Only really basing it off of other rookies fighting, but who knows how far away they parked their boat and how long it took to get there)
Edit: Plus who was planning on leaving. really on sounded like Capone was heading off and maybe Bonny as well. Others seemed to kind of want to stick around and see who's coming and what not. So they may have been sitting around doing nothing for a while. Also Kidd and Law according to last chapter discussion appear to have taken down their bot as well already. so i could see it having already been 6 hours or so.
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Also Kidd and Law according to last chapter discussion appear to have taken down their bot as well already. so i could see it having already been 6 hours or so.
what? is the kuma-bot down? i can not find any part where this is said…
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the axe dude tell Kizaru that Kidd/Luffy/Law are all split up around the island. Kidd and Law were together fighting Kuma, so it is an educated assumption that Kuma bot would have to have been taken out for them to go on their ways.
As we have seen in their interactions thus far, neither is willing to let the other take care of something for them. So we know Law didn't just go "see ya later Kidd, thanks for offering to take care of him for me"
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the axe dude tell Kizaru that Kidd/Luffy/Law are all split up around the island.
where did he say that?
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/510/08/
thats the conversation you mean?
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yea it is, the scan I have had him saying they are all split up and which one do you want to go after.
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ok and which translation is the correct? :wassat:
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I have no idea, I ain't home to see my scan to even know which group i used. I guess we will have to wait a 10 days or so to find out what is the fate of them (if Kizaru goes after them). Otherwise i could see Oda keeping their powers more of a secret cause we will be fighting htem later and want ti to be cooler if we see less of their powers now.
Edit: for all I know I have some translation stuck in my head from a different language like chinese or something which everyone knows the more you translate back and forth it will change.
But non the less it doesn't really matter, I'm pretty sure they have taken him out. Oda seemed to put importance on them as beeing some big shots to meet later on so I would bet they will make it. While the four we just seen, though are all cool and awesome powers (i mean t-rex, and others are awesome, but t-rex) could have been mainly shown to showcase an admirals power.
Though I do think somehow they will escape, I still for some reason peg them a tier lower than Law and Kidd's group. And not because they are less strong or cool or powers. But one main aspect, their crews. Kidd and Law were shown to have competent crews and you saw them fight and converse and seem not very frightened in Kuma situation. Yet we have the others crews non excistent or freaking out like we are back in east blue or something.
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so far the conversation sounds more like his listing the key offenders, and it doesnt sound like he knows there locations, or is waiting for next chapter to tell kizaru where to go. but if the translation comes out that law and kidd split up that means the first kuma to appear was a bot and not the real thing, second they probably defeated it before straw hats beat their kuma bot.
actually its more likely kidd and law beat their kuma bot fairly quickly since these kuma bots cant teleport, the main arguement was kidd couldnt beat kuma cause he could teleport instantly and his magnetic powers wouldnt work to effectively against him, but a large metal object thats slow moving would most likely be cake for kidd to hold and mess with while law breaks him into pieces.
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Teleportation > Speed.
Wouldn't the move Kizaru used to catch up to Apoo be considered teleportation?
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Wouldn't the move Kizaru used to catch up to Apoo be considered teleportation?
No, because your body still had to move to reach your destination. It may appear as though he teleported but he still had to make the steps in between the start and finish. Whereas in teleportation the body is simply displaced from one place to the next with out traveling on any of the points in between.
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hmmm we havent been shown this point yet. if ace is near a fire (from another source, not from him) will he feel hot? same as aokiji, will he be cold? the same logic follows with kizary i think. he is light based, so if he is exposed to light, will he be blinded? i wonder
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hmmm we havent been shown this point yet. if ace is near a fire (from another source, not from him) will he feel hot? same as aokiji, will he be cold? the same logic follows with kizary i think. he is light based, so if he is exposed to light, will he be blinded? i wonder
Crocodile was around sand the entire Arabasta arc and didn't feel dry, and Kizaru is currently surrounded by light (although he IS wearing sunglasses), so It's safe to assume that they are immune to the element their powers are based on.
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Bibi should fall off the planet any minute now.
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And my dog's name is bingo.
You asked the question, I answered, and I don't care bout your dawg named bingo.
Wouldn't the move Kizaru used to catch up to Apoo be considered teleportation?
No.
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No, because your body still had to move to reach your destination. It may appear as though he teleported but he still had to make the steps in between the start and finish. Whereas in teleportation the body is simply displaced from one place to the next with out traveling on any of the points in between.
Thats nice and all except we don't know how Kuma moves instantanously around. Whether its Pacifista teleportation tech or him reflecting himself, if its the latter then Kizaru could be faster.
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Thats nice and all except we don't know how Kuma moves instantanously around. Whether its Pacifista teleportation tech or him reflecting himself, if its the latter then Kizaru could be faster.
Its stated many times in the manga that Kuma teleports. Yellow Monkey so far as we know is light and light don't teleport, it travels. Anyway with what we have/know now its very safe to say Kuma > Yellow Monkey in speed.
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Teleportation IS moving at the speed of light, you dimwit>.>
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and just cause the strawhats say he is teleporting around doesn't mean he is.
He is moving around by the use of his devil fruit we know that as fact. Otherwise the kuma bots could move around fast like him as well. And he said his shockwaves move at the speed of light, so they are the same speed at best. But since he has to use his power to propel him or however he moves, vs a guy who is light himself. By basic resistant and air priniciples Kizaru is faster.
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and just cause the strawhats say he is teleporting around doesn't mean he is.
The SH has stated a lot things that are true, and I'm sure you know the Aurthur sometimes speaks tho his character's. Besides Action's > words Kuma has been shown to appear and reappear in another spot in an instant/instantaneous. So far, The SH words have not be contradicted by any statement made by Kuma or his actions.
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The SH has stated a lot things that are true, and I'm sure you know the Aurthur sometimes speaks tho his character's.
authors also tend to have their characters speak and make assumptions on things happening to throw off the reader
or does this not go both ways but only in the way that helps your argument
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authors also tend to have their characters speak and make assumptions on things happening to throw off the reader
You know, your right, which is why The authors would have the characters be contradicted by an action which proves them wrong or a statement. Or they are right when a Action supports there claim.Which in Kuma's case his actions support there claims.
or does this not go both ways but only in the way that helps your argument
Your the one who ignored the rest of my post to help yourself.
@Jinbei:Besides Action's > words Kuma has been shown to appear and reappear in another spot in an instant/instantaneous. So far, The SH words have not been contradicted by any statement made, or by Kuma's actions.
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You asked the question, I answered, and I don't care bout your dawg named bingo.
No.
Never seen movie called Ace Ventura? That pet detective who look like Franky… And that was right answer... anyway. So nothing new this week eh?
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Never seen movie called Ace Ventura? That pet detective who look like Franky… And that was right answer... anyway. So nothing new this week eh?
I seen the movie, and that was not the right answer.
Ventura funny….
You not.
You didn't hare, there is no chapter this week.
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Besides Action's > words Kuma has been shown to appear and reappear in another spot in an instant/instantaneous. So far, The SH words have not be contradicted by any statement made by Kuma or his actions.
Last I recall Kuma does indeed state that his paws travel at the speed of light. The Kuma bots can't teleport so we know that it is related to his fruit then.
So yes we do know that he is moving around at best the speed of light. But because of air resistance and stuff due to the size of his body, he is slower than Kizaru. I have already stated this, didn't think I needed to repeat myself, that is why I didn't respond to your other part.
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Last I recall Kuma does indeed state that his paws travel at the speed of light. The Kuma bots can't teleport so we know that it is related to his fruit then.
So yes we do know that he is moving around at best the speed of light. But because of air resistance and stuff due to the size of his body, he is slower than Kizaru. I have already stated this, didn't think I needed to repeat myself, that is why I didn't respond to your other part.
Zoro can see and dodges Kuma's attacks that are the speed of light. If Zoro can dodge and see them, Zoro should be able to follow Kuma movements but he can't, Zoro states its teleportion. Kuma's action of appearing and reappearing in another spot in an instant also support Zoro statement, which supports the fact that he can't follow Kuma.
Kuma said his attacks move at the speed of light, not himself, its stated he teleports which has yet to be proven wrong, by any actions or events or dialog.
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Ok then how can he teleport. I want you to explain this to me.
It can't be a fruit other than the one he has. It isn't part of the tech of Vegapunk cause otherwise others would have it. He ain't running super fast otherwise Zoro would see him correct? and how is he teleporting then since your definition of deleporting obviously isn't the way real telportation works that it is still just moving at the speed of light
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Ok
Glad you agree..I can care less about explaining it to you since this is not my Manga.
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Your the one who ignored the rest of my post to help yourself.
I'll let you talk for myself
Just accept that he is using his paws to move around super fast, he sent the rock super fast away. Which showed up how he sent Perona flying (well maybe, the book could have df since he wrote in it) but that isn't how he woudl teleport.
But if he can extract the pain and fatigue from someone it seems like moving around super fast by his paws isn't a huge stretch
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I'll let you talk for myself
Lol your the one who lost the argument, you trying to redeem yourself by have me post a theory really won't help you, just move on and I didn't ignore your post, I only quoted a piece of it, the most important part really. The rest was addressed in my last post.
Just accept that he is using his paws to move around super fast, he sent the rock super fast away. Which showed up how he sent Perona flying (well maybe, the book could have df since he wrote in it) but that isn't how he woudl teleport.
Not the case, The story states different and shows different. I don't care how he Teleports, the point is with what was shown and stated he is, Until proven wrong, in the story.
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Let me reiterate, teleporting IS moving at the speed of light.
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Let me reiterate, teleporting IS moving at the speed of light.
Maybe he's thinking warping (which is instantaneous, regardless of distance) as opposed to teleporting.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation
Teleportation =/= Speed of light
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive
Warping > Speed of Light
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and just cause the strawhats say he is teleporting around doesn't mean he is.
This is true, but he did disappear and then reappear without moving.
He is moving around by the use of his devil fruit we know that as fact.
That's not a fact, that's speculation. We know for a fact that he uses his DF power through his paws which he always takes off his gloves to use. Look here
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/473/17/
and here.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/473/18/
He obviously does not take his gloves off or even moves his body. However, right in front of Nami's eyes appeared in front of her, and then disappeared and reappeared much farther away. His DF wasn't even used.
Otherwise the kuma bots could move around fast like him as well.
Not true. Bartholomew Kuma is a human and had been a fearsome pirate. Just because there are robots that look like him doesn't mean they have the same powers and abilities. All they have are lasers, strength and tough metal that looks to not be as strong as Kuma the Shichibukai's himself.