About what shanks and garp said and asura

Final End

Equals in what? It's never implied what it is. Fail more like your buddy OneInch. You're just using ipsedixitism.

LMAO so Whitebeard is the strongest (strength) man in the world because he beat everyone in a lifting contest???

You fail….......

ONEinchPUNCH

That doesn't prove formal implication. It can be your opinion, but it isn't fact.

Again, argue all you want, but calling it a fact is untrue, and makes you look like a fool. You might also want to look up what a logical fallacy is, since you've written 10 pages full of it.

I'm sorry but you are wrong

Whitebeard tied roger and is stronger (as implied in his name) than anyone else, if strength meant physical strength he would just be a strong man. This is PROVEN false because he tied roger and is the best at the moment.

He then showed you speed, technique and awareness through one slash of his sword.

Can you still deny that?

Nauykuyr

@Final:

LMAO so Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world because he beat everyone in a lifting contest???

You fail….......

Another red herring, plus again relying on equivocation: contexts are different plus the word is ambiguous. Try avoiding the formal implication some more, maybe I'll forget about it in a few hundred pages more of your failure.

Same response to OneInch. More logical fallacies. How many do you want to keep posting? You're wrong, the burden of proof is upon you, but you're too busy setting up straw man arguments.

I'm done. You can't prove it, you just keep throwing logical fallacy after logical fallacy. I doubt you'll ever understand it. Maybe when you guys go to college or highschool you'll learn about it.

ONEinchPUNCH

@Nauykuyr:

Another red herring, plus again relying on equivocation: contexts are different plus the word is ambiguous. Try avoiding the formal implication some more, maybe I'll forget about it in a few hundred pages more of your failure.

Same response to OneInch. More logical fallacies. How many do you want to keep posting? You're wrong, the burden of proof is upon you, but you're too busy setting up straw man arguments.

I'm done. You can't prove it, you just keep throwing logical fallacy after logical fallacy. I doubt you'll ever understand it. Maybe when you guys go to college or highschool you'll learn about it.

You haven't disproven Whitebeard being equal to Roger which Proves he isn't just strong. You also didn't comment on him showing speed, technique and awareness in one slash of his sword.

Final End

@Nauykuyr:

Another red herring, plus again relying on equivocation: contexts are different plus the word is ambiguous. Try avoiding the formal implication some more, maybe I'll forget about it in a few hundred pages more of your failure.

LMAO you wont win this just because you use big words. Here some Canon Food for your ass…... Data Book, Strength 6, luffy and zoro both have a 6. 6 = 6. In One Piece strength is always about your fighting power….....look at Whitebeard, here some more Canon food for your ass, Luffy an Zoro Fought as equals and if they kept going they would have killed each other. (they were fighting to kill.....and they fought as equals and the data book backs this up)

You have yet to disprove anything.

Steiner

Look I'm not even going to get into where Luffy and Zolo stand in strength, but I find it hilarious that there is 11 pages of people spouting off 6=6 to support their arguement using a clearly outdated data book. Seriously, you can't tell me that a data book that old takes into account both the gears and asura, and don't even dare try to say that the data book isn't outdated since what would the point of coming out with a new data book be if the old one wasn't outdated. In conclusion, grow a pair and use something more than an old data book to support your arguements.

Final End

^^Old???????…..............

@CosmicDebris:

Listen guys - if Oda said it at any point in One Piece history, it's true until he says otherwise. NOT the other way around. If you want to believe that information about Luffy and Zoro is outdated, that's your prerogative, but you can't make any argument for it until new information is presented. It's completely pointless.

ONEinchPUNCH

@Steiner:

Look I'm not even going to get into where Luffy and Zolo stand in strength, but I find it hilarious that there is 11 pages of people spouting off 6=6 to support their arguement using a clearly outdated data book. Seriously, you can't tell me that a data book that old takes into account both the gears and asura, and don't even dare try to say that the data book isn't outdated since what would the point of coming out with a new data book be if the old one wasn't outdated. In conclusion, grow a pair and use something more than an old data book to support your arguements.

Oda has his ending planned already, he knew when they'd learn asura and gears. He brings a new book out when he feels something has changed, when it is released the time will have arrived.

So the red book counts until the yellow book is available.

Steiner

LoL, just because he is a moderater and he said that it doesn't mean it is the be all end all of the arguement. Moderator status just means that he is a moderator for this forum not that he speaks for Oda so no insult to Cosmic, but being a moderator doesn't make his words any better than anyone else's. Also using your own arguements that unless it is specifically stated it isn't true, then since your precious graph doesn't say that it includes the gears and asura it must not then since it isn't specifically stated. You saying that he made that graph with those abilities in mind is your own speculation.

Phenomenol

@Steiner:

LoL, just because he is a moderater and he said that it doesn't mean it is the be all end all of the arguement. Moderator status just means that he is a moderator for this forum not that he speaks for Oda so no insult to Cosmic, but being a moderator doesn't make his words any better than anyone else's. Also using your own arguements that unless it is specifically stated it isn't true, then since your precious graph doesn't say that it includes the gears and asura it must not then since it isn't specifically stated. You saying that he made that graph with those abilities in mind is your own speculation.

And yet do you understand that Luffy and Zoro's upgrades in techniques really does NOT put one above the other? They are still equal even with Asura and Gears.

Another red herring, plus again relying on equivocation: contexts are different plus the word is ambiguous. Try avoiding the formal implication some more, maybe I'll forget about it in a few hundred pages more of your failure. Same response to OneInch. More logical fallacies. How many do you want to keep posting? You're wrong, the burden of proof is upon you, but you're too busy setting up straw man arguments. I'm done. You can't prove it, you just keep throwing logical fallacy after logical fallacy. I doubt you'll ever understand it. Maybe when you guys go to college or highschool you'll learn about it.

Do you understand that STRONGEST MAN MEANS exactly that? Strongest Man in the world. Noone is above Whitebeard until proven otherwsie!!!!!

ONEinchPUNCH

@Steiner:

LoL, just because he is a moderater and he said that it doesn't mean it is the be all end all of the arguement. Moderator status just means that he is a moderator for this forum not that he speaks for Oda so no insult to Cosmic, but being a moderator doesn't make his words any better than anyone else's. Also using your own arguements that unless it is specifically stated it isn't true, then since your precious graph doesn't say that it includes the gears and asura it must not then since it isn't specifically stated. You saying that he made that graph with those abilities in mind is your own speculation.

**Oda has his ending planned already,**the knew when they'd learn asura and gears. He brings a new book out when he feels something has changed, when it is released the time will have arrived.

So the red book counts until the yellow book is available.

Of course he knew they'd learn their moves, his story is all planned out. If he doesn't make a new data book available it means the red book still counts.

Final End

@Steiner:

LoL, just because he is a moderater and he said that it doesn't mean it is the be all end all of the arguement. Moderator status just means that he is a moderator for this forum not that he speaks for Oda so no insult to Cosmic, but being a moderator doesn't make his words any better than anyone else's. Also using your own arguements that unless it is specifically stated it isn't true, then since your precious graph doesn't say that it includes the gears and asura it must not then since it isn't specifically stated. You saying that he made that graph with those abilities in mind is your own speculation.

LOL you missed the point…....the only thing that will dismiss the Red data book is the Yellow. and you talk as if Luffy or Zoro upgrades puts one above the other? they are equals, now these 2 equals both have upgrades, they are still equals until ODA says other wise! What is so hard to understand?

What sabz is saying is BULL @#$$%

Pants-eater

You ever post in a so called "intelligent thread?"

I have lost faith in all humanity and demand that you return me my oxygen.

Final End

@Pants-eater:

I have lost faith in all humanity

…...............................

regasatanum

all attempts trying to convince one another are futile. This is clearly a debate, and in a debate, it doesnt matter how many facts you have but how you present them so dont bother to outtalk OIP, phenomenol and final_end. They have a 6 in debating.

Some of the arguments of the Equalists.

The fight at Whiskey Peak.

A tie can only mean we don't know who is stronger, but it cant 100% prove that they are equal.
It's possible for two characters of unequal strength to tie a fight, prove this wrong.
Maybe I shouldnt mention that fight is more of a comical relief and its ended by nami dual happiness punch.

"Listen guys - if Oda said it at any point in One Piece history, it's true until he says otherwise. NOT the other way around. If you want to believe that information about Luffy and Zoro is outdated, that's your prerogative, but you can't make any argument for it until new information is presented. It's completely pointless. "

Whose rule is that? Does Oda ever say that?
Lets go by that rule anyway. That statement doesn't really support that Zoro and Luffy are equal. After the release of the data book, we had seen changes in Zoro and Luffy strength. What are the chances that their improvement is exactly same precise to the 9th decimal place? I know this isnt fair as it doesnt need to be that precise in order to call them equal. We had seen Luffy beaten Enel while Zoro couldnt. If luffy was clever enough to overcome Crocodile's logia, i cant see why Zoro couldnt do the same to Enel since he's claimed to be equal to luffy.

Data Book shown their Strength equalled @ 6

They were equal before luffy developed his gears and zoro's asura but now it's fair to say either zoro or luffy is stronger or equal. Equal only 33% possibility,
Even if strength is not how much you can lift, strength alone will not determine the outcome of a fight. Nami is able to utilise her clima tact because of her intelligence. Luffy could defeat crocodile because of his wit. I will call that Fighting Ability, a combination of strength, intelligent. While other factors such as environment or even luck do play a part. If you insist to follow the databook faithfully Then answer this: Who is more likely to win a fight between two equally strong person, but one moron and one genius? If so, then Zoro is clearly stronger he has a higher Intelligence in the data book.

I think there's some confusion here as no proposition is stated. One side is arguing that their strength is equaled at 6 which is an absolute fact as 6=6, while the other side is arguing that strength alone will not determine the outcome of the battle, or the data is outdated, or not precise enough.

gamistras

@regasatanum:

all attempts trying to convince one another are futile. This is clearly a debate, and in a debate, it doesnt matter how many facts you have but how you present them so dont bother to outtalk OIP, phenomenol and final_end. They have a 6 in debating.

Some of the arguments of the Equalists.

The fight at Whiskey Peak.

A tie can only mean we don't know who is stronger, but it cant 100% prove that they are equal.

It's possible for two characters of unequal strength to tie a fight, prove this wrong.

Maybe I shouldnt mention that fight is more of a comical relief and its ended by nami dual happiness punch.

"Listen guys - if Oda said it at any point in One Piece history, it's true until he says otherwise. NOT the other way around. If you want to believe that information about Luffy and Zoro is outdated, that's your prerogative, but you can't make any argument for it until new information is presented. It's completely pointless. "

Whose rule is that? Does Oda ever say that?

Lets go by that rule anyway. That statement doesn't really support that Zoro and Luffy are equal. After the release of the data book, we had seen changes in Zoro and Luffy strength. What are the chances that their improvement is exactly same precise to the 9th decimal place? I know this isnt fair as it doesnt need to be that precise in order to call them equal. We had seen Luffy beaten Enel while Zoro couldnt. If luffy was clever enough to overcome Crocodile's logia, i cant see why Zoro couldnt do the same to Enel since he's claimed to be equal to luffy.

Data Book shown their Strength equalled @ 6

Even if strength is not how much you can lift, strength alone will not determine the outcome of a fight. Nami is able to utilise her clima tact because of her intelligence. Luffy could defeat crocodile because of his wit. I will call that Fighting Ability, a combination of strength, intelligent. While other factors such as environment or even luck do play a part. If you insist to follow the databook faithfully Then answer this: Who is more likely to win a fight between two equally strong person, but one moron and one genius? If so, then Zoro is clearly stronger he has a higher Intelligence in the data book.

I think there's some confusion here as no proposition is stated. One side is arguing that their strength is equaled at 6 which is an absolute fact as 6=6, while the other side is arguing that strength alone will not determine the outcome of the battle, or the data is outdated, or not precise enough.

this was really hard and long to read,dude try focusing on your main idea and not repeating things

and zoro and luffy are equal until it is said otherwise

nobody said they will always be equal,oda will decide,i believe luffy eventually will become slightly stronger in the end of the series,or not

any talk trying to disprove they are equal has no base,it's 100% speculation

i think the denial is caused by the person's personality and not by his reading ability,they don't like the idea of them being equal so they will never accept it even if oda himself said it

They were equal before luffy developed his gears and zoro's asura but now it's fair to say either zoro or luffy is stronger or equal. Equal only 33% possibility,

wtf? 33%? i think it's time phenomenal sings shakira again!!!!

regasatanum

^^ sorry for being too long winded.

Speculation?

@gamistras:

nobody said they will always be equal,oda will decide,i believe luffy eventually will become slightly stronger in the end of the series,or not

That is an better example.

mine are just my interpretation. OP is opened for any interpretation and discussion that's why this forum exists. There's nothing wrong with speculation or guessing whatsoever

ONEinchPUNCH

@regasatanum:

Some of the arguments of the Equalists.

The fight at Whiskey Peak.

A tie can only mean we don't know who is stronger, but it cant 100% prove that they are equal.

Their most powerful attacks were used first and neither move out-did the other. They had equal damage and neither showed any signs of weariness. So from what has been shown they are equal, Oda has purposely done this.

So guessing who is stronger is speculation, we have to go them being equals until Oda shows something that says otherwise.

It's possible for two characters of unequal strength to tie a fight, prove this wrong.

That's impossible if one characters fighting ability (strength) is higher than anothers, he must win. Unless they use a weakness to lower their enemies fighting ability.

E.g Luffy luckily being made of rubber which nulified enels electricity, this drastically decreased enels fighting ability.

Maybe I shouldnt mention that fight is more of a comical relief and its ended by nami dual happiness punch.

The fight was extremely serious, they were trying to kill each other. Nami's happy punch came when all the best moves were done, ending the fight when there was nothing left to equal.

You don't have two characters attacks absolutely equal without wanting tfor no reason. It means they are of equal power.

"Listen guys - if Oda said it at any point in One Piece history, it's true until he says otherwise. NOT the other way around. If you want to believe that information about Luffy and Zoro is outdated, that's your prerogative, but you can't make any argument for it until new information is presented. It's completely pointless. "

Whose rule is that? Does Oda ever say that?

By the fact he is bringing out more books means his words stand and by the fact his story is planned out. He knows how strong his characters are and when to change their stats, that's why another book is on it's way.

Lets go by that rule anyway. That statement doesn't really support that Zoro and Luffy are equal. After the release of the data book, we had seen changes in Zoro and Luffy strength.

They've both received new techniques and gotten physically stronger, but neither has learnt anything that can out do the other. Alot of the upgrades have been for surpassing a foe with a unique technique.

What are the chances that their improvement is exactly same precise to the 9th decimal place? I know this isnt fair as it doesnt need to be that precise in order to call them equal.

They have each learned a new move each arc and neither has gained anything that puts them above the other.

We had seen Luffy beaten Enel while Zoro couldnt. If luffy was clever enough to overcome Crocodile's logia, i cant see why Zoro couldnt do the same to Enel since he's claimed to be equal to luffy.

Luffy was beaten by croc and then some of than old guys water fell on croc's arm. So luffy didn't overcome anything he would have died if it wasn't for robin. Luffy then returns with croc's weakness and gets beaten once again, he survives thanks to some water.

In skypiea rubber is non-existant, how can zoro over come this? Zoro fought enel + electricity, luffy fought enel - electricity which enel has the higher fighting ability.

Using the enel fight is an unfair comparison, you might as well put luffy against the sea.

Data Book shown their Strength equalled @ 6

They were equal before luffy developed his gears and zoro's asura but now it's fair to say either zoro or luffy is stronger or equal. Equal only 33% possibility,

They're both equal before the states we see lucchi owning them both, they then both learn their new states. They're still equal, it's also shown through how easily zoro's new state instantly beat kaku. While luffy's state was having trouble with lucchi, showing luffys isn't superior.

Even if strength is not how much you can lift, strength alone will not determine the outcome of a fight. Nami is able to utilise her clima tact because of her intelligence. Luffy could defeat crocodile because of his wit. I will call that Fighting Ability, a combination of strength, intelligent. While other factors such as environment or even luck do play a part.

WHOA WHOA WHOA!! we agree.

In manga's strength is your fighting ability, it uses whatever traits a character has. So why isn't zoro stronger than luffy having more DEX? for the simple fact a swordsman needs more DEX to perform swordsmanship, while a brawler (luffy) requires less. So after adding adding their stats to their style they both get MAX.

Whitebeard shows strength is fighting ability because of his title, if strongest meant he can just lift alot how would he have tied roger? How would he be the the strongest in OP right now? It shows strenghth is your fighting ability, he even shows is speed, awareness and technique with a slah against shanks.

Then there is the fact whitebeard and the data book were released at almost the same time. It isn't a coincidence that Oda shows strength in whitebeards name and then shows it in the data book.

If you insist to follow the databook faithfully Then answer this: Who is more likely to win a fight between two equally strong person, but one moron and one genius? If so, then Zoro is clearly stronger he has a higher Intelligence in the data book.

It's all about what the style demands

I think there's some confusion here as no proposition is stated. One side is arguing that their strength is equaled at 6 which is an absolute fact as 6=6, while the other side is arguing that strength alone will not determine the outcome of the battle, or the data is outdated, or not precise enough.

The red book will be outdated when the yellow book is on sale. If the stats are outdated so is anything else stated in the book, which we know is false.