@Kitsune:
Bro, he claimed he had received a power and nobody counter-claimed him. Multiple people suggested that the numbers give us powers (if I'm not mistake, you and SkullJoke made that very same assumption), and yet, you guys STILL lynched him.
Nobody counter-claimed Jabberwok, true. But it's astonishing to me that you're ballsy enough to say that we're the ones who screwed up when all of the information needed to exonerate him was in your possession. To me, it seems like you are the one who dropped the ball, and we're all suffering for it now.
@kmohyudin:
There is a lot more that can be said on the subject. But, let’s start with these questions.
- Why didn’t you full reveal?
- If you were never going to full reveal anyway, why did you even butt in? It would have served the town a lot better had you remained quiet.
I know that these questions are for Kitsune, but I have some thoughts on these lines, too.
1. I think that Kitsune is at best a third party "vig" or at worst a mafia member. I don't buy that he refrained from full claiming because he wasn't sure about how his power worked. I think he avoided full claiming because it would make him look more suspicious, and it would probably have killed the wagon on Jabberwok (which maybe he wanted to happen for the mislynch).
2. This is an interesting question. I do get the sense that Kitsune's participation yesterday only served to make him and Jabberwok look more suspicious. I think he wanted the lynch on Jabberwok to go through.
@Huschel:
Well. I don't appreciate being called an idiot. I am perfectly capable of doing that myself. Maybe it was tongue-in-cheek.
I think it was tongue-in-cheek. As was the "jump the gun" part of it. Again, sorry Jabs. You were taken from us too soon.
@Huschel:
**I would like everybody's input on this, please.
–-**
As it is, I find Kitsune's claim rather peculiar. It's just such a slow power. Night 1 (or maybe Day 1) he gets the ability to gift sth to sb on Night 1. But that person can't use that gift until Night 2? He also has that power 2 Nights in a row? I suppose we didn't choose new numbers yesterday.
It's also perfectly possible that Kitsune is lying and that Jabberwock got the gun by picking a specific number himself.
I don't believe everything Kitsune has revealed about his power role. It doesn't make sense that he'd get to use his power again on night 2 when we didn't pick new numbers at the beginning of day 2. There were less than ten of us during night 2, so rolling a d10 then would conceivably have had the chance of hitting a number that was already removed from the game. Doesn't add up. That said, it's also true that we could have lynched someone on day 1, in which case one of the d10 options could have been removed from the game as early as night 1.
Kitsune's speculated that someone else is going to get his power, now that he's going to bleed out tonight. This certainly could be true, especially considering that we did pick new numbers at the start of this day phase. How the dice will work tonight is still in question, though… Kitsune is presumably going to die, and then we might also lynch someone else today as well, and that'd remove another number or two from the game. I suppose that the new role, if it does appear, will only be allowed to roll a d7.
@Kitsune:
Yes. My theory was indeed that I shot someone. I explained it already. I gave them a "gift" and my role is Vigilante, so I assumed that meant the gift was bullets to the face.
Wait, but you've claimed that you know which number you rolled. That means you must have known that your "gift" was given to Jabberwok. I think it's a thin excuse to say that you had "forgotten" about the numbers until we prompted you to look at the beginning of the game. One of the first things I said on day 2 was that I wondered why we didn't get to pick numbers again.
This seems strange to assume that your "gift" was a gunshot, even if you're not lying about your role being that of "vigilante". If your role were mine, and the wording in the PM really was "gift", then I know that I certainly wouldn't have assumed that my power was to shoot someone. Again, I think that you were particularly unhelpful yesterday when you refused to reveal more about your own role. You could have easily done more to stop the Jabberwok wagon.
@Kitsune:
I wasn't bleeding out then. I think there is way more value in my ability the more night phases I can use it, so why put a target on myself? I was hoping I was scummy enough yesterday to get by without taking a hit, but that clearly wasn't the case.There is a lot more that can be said on the subject. But, let’s start with these questions.
You were hoping that you were scummy enough yesterday to get by without getting shot on Night 2? How does this make sense?
I can see that if you appear scummy enough, then the mafia would want to keep you alive so that you could be lynched at a later time.
But, that didn't seem to work out for you, now, did it? Either the mafia wants you dead, or a truly town-aligned vigilante shot you last night because you made yourself look too scummy on day 2.
@Kitsune:
Don't you dare blame me for your fuck up. I said over and over it was a dumbass decision. I told you I had a power role. Jabberwok told you he had gained something the night before and nobody counter-claimed him. Fuck off with that nonsense. YOU fucking messed up. YOU probably cost us the game.
But it was your "fuck up". You are the one who had information that could have exonerated Jabberwok. Instead, you chose to remain mostly silent, and instead your soft claim served only to make the two of you look more suspicious in everyone else's eyes.
@Huschel:
Kirby: How do you feel about being seen as the overeager newbie Townie at this point?
I feel… good about it, I guess? I am a townie, so it's good that people are still giving me the benefit of the doubt.
@Huschel:
So. What is it about a game the flavor of which it is to accuse each other of murder and subterfuge, that makes people so aggravated? At this point, I hope it's part of a strategy because I do worry.
Something does feel weird about people getting offended by aggressive plays and stances in this game. I would have assumed that thicker skins and clearer heads would have prevailed by now, but the fact that they haven't makes it seem like there might be more going on here. Is it a performance? I'm intrigued by Foolio's guess that kmo and Kitsune could be working together.
@kmohyudin:
On a side note, do you guys suppose that the guns come with a posting restriction? One that restricted what Jabberwok could divulge?
I think that sounds really weird and hard to enforce. I find it more likely that the guns come with some sort of alignment change, which could then cause the player to change how they are posting.
@Huschel:
Why didn't you claim number 1 today?
I don't think that Kitsune could have gotten his own gun today by choosing the number he rolled last night.
I do suppose it's possible, that if Kitsune's role really is what he is claiming, that he could roll his own number in the night, in which case, he might give himself a gun.
@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:
What? No, we don't. We have proof that a third-party gun exists (based on the colour of the word "gun" in Jabs' lynch message) which means, given Kitsune's claim, he's a third party and likely a threat to the Town. In fact Jabs being, at least partially, third-party was something I mentioned yesterday as a reason I was willing to vote for him.
It's interesting to me that SUDK's interpretation is the one I most agree with, and I'm surprised that no one else has said something along those lines yet. It seems clear to me that the gun is at best linked to a third party, at worst linked to the mafia. Either way, right now I don't believe that the guns being distributed are there to help the town.
The town wins when all threats to the town have been eliminated. Disseminating guns seems like creating more threats to the town, doesn't it?
@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:
If Kitsune is dying, we'll find out at day's end. Nobody came forward with a gun claim today, however, so the chances of him being shot are, to me, low. I'm not willing to lynch Kitsune at this time, though, asnobody counter-claiming Kitsune adds validity to his claim.
There has been something of a counter-claim. In fact, kmohyudin saying that he didn't receive a gun last night is the counter-claim against Kitsune.
@SomebodyUDon'tKnow:
I don't know if this has been explained yet, but how did SkullJoke die? He wasn't shot by Jabs, supposedly, and the Mafia being given guns doesn't seem right, but he was shot. It's possible it was flavour from the Mafia killing him, but it just seems odd that guns/shooting were brought up.
SkullJoke died by bleeding out… you're right to say that we have all more or less assumed that he was bleeding out from a gunshot, though.
For all we know, it's possible that you can use the guns on the night that you receive them. There's a chance that SkullJoke was shot by Jabberwok on night 1. I think it's more likely though that the mafia shot him, and also shot Kitsune on night 2. Either that, or the mafia shot no one last night, and Kitsune is a mafioso.
Okay, I think that covers all the questions that were asked of me and the thoughts that I have up to this point in the game. I'll go back and check one more time to see if there's anything that I missed.
I'll say that I agree with the sentiment that a third party is probably not good for the town. I want them out of the game, too, and so I would really like to lynch Kitsune right now. But I'm also of a mind to let him bleed out tonight, while we use the rest of the day to scumhunt and potentially make a better lynch today than what we did yesterday. That said, I am really not sure of who I suspect most after Kitsune...
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Foolio:
> I want to ask **the whole town** to think about scum pairs from here on out. kmo + kitsu is a random one I speculated upon; what do you guys think? I have some other possible pairs in mind but I'd like to hear from everyone else too.
I'm having trouble coming up with scum pairs right now, and it's mostly because I have another theory brewing in the back of my head. More on that later.
@Kitsune:
> I've done all that I can to fight against the dangerous wagon that built on us, fought hard to scumhunt, but the reality of it is that my heart's not really in this game, because my mind is a wee bit too fragile.
>
> …
>
> I don't want to give up on this game, because I know that what I've said so far is true, and I know that my lynch will be another mislynch.
These statements do not square with each other. Do you not want to give up on the game, or is your heart no longer in the game? This makes me want to vote for you.
@Kitsune:
> **@Kirbycide:** While I DO suspect you, it's pretty clear to me that kmohyudin is scum, and I highly doubt you would be on his side if he were. So it reasons to me that if kmo is Mafia, then you are not. Likewise, if kmo is Town, then FMPOV, you are Mafia. I'm pretty comfortable in saying that you are Town so my question to you is: Do you find kmohyudin's surefire insistence that you and Skully are definitely town to be at all disconcerting? It stands to reason that the Mafia would likely know who is town simply by virtue of knowing who is Mafia.
No, I still think that kmohyudin's reasoning is solid regarding my and SkullJoke's towntells on day 1\. I also think that he would have been more likely to see it if he had our roles, too. Though, I will admit you're right in that he would have known we weren't scum if he was scum himself. I still think that kmohyudin seems like a townie, he's pretty low on my radar, but maybe that's a bad thing and he's just playing scum very well?
@Kitsune:
> And then, my followup, once kmo is gone, what do you think it will take for you to find the other mafioso(s)? What suspicions or strategies do you have to sniff them out from the other four (Sky, SUDK, Foolio, Huschel)?
This is as good a lead in as any to the theory I've been formulating. So here goes:
Shuhan's introduction can be interpreted to mean that the townies here are test subjects. We are here to be shot at, and that implies that anyone with the ability to shoot (or distribute guns) in the night is actually aligned with the company whose vests we are testing. I think I made a mistake yesterday when I was thinking that the mafia were the "troublemakers" according to the introduction post.
If there are troublemakers, then what sort of role would they have, considering it was the Vest Co. that called them as such? Perhaps the third party is actually composed of role blockers? Someone who can prevent a kill, or prevent another power role from distributing guns… That seems like the kind of character that the Vest Co. would call a troublemaker, no?
Kitsune made it clear to everyone yesterday that he had a special role, so it wouldn't be surprising to me if his role was blocked last night. That could be one reason that kmohyudin didn't get his "gift".
This theory makes me think the following:
* Kitsune is a bad guy who represents a threat to town because he is distributing guns that will ultimately be used to test our vests. I think that the mafia in this game is whoever is aligned with Vest Co. When we get rid of anyone with a gun as well as anyone who is distributing guns, we will have removed the threats to the town, and the test will have to be halted.
* Someone (probably a third party) blocked Kitsune last night. Since roleblocking does not seem to me to be a direct threat to the town, I suspect that the third party and the town can share their win conditions.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'm not sure why Kitsune would lie about being shot if he is scum, since it would most likely result in his lynch tomorrow, anyway. Can anyone else think of a reason why Kitsune might have lied? Do you think that if he doesn't die tonight that he might be able to convince us not to lynch him tomorrow?
In any case, I don't think that we're in LyLo, so a no lynch (or equivalently a lynch on Kitsune) today shouldn't mean that the town is doomed. And if my theory's right, someone who is distributing guns in the night can only be regarded as a threat to the town.
So, for now, I'll **Vote Lynch: Kitsune Inferno**.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Wait. I think I'm assuming that the town is in a better position that it really is. If someone else gets shot tonight, even if they get the chance to participate tomorrow, that still means we'll be down one more townie by day 5, and so a no lynch today could actually be a bad thing.
I'll **Unvote** for now.
We need to find scum today and lynch them, guys. What does **everyone** think about my theory regarding the mafia and vest co. being one and the same? And what do you all think about the idea of a roleblocking third party?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'd also like to point out that **Kitsune Inferno** has only claimed that he was shot last night. He has yet to actually say that he is bleeding out.
He did say that he didn't full claim yesterday because he wasn't bleeding out **at the time**. But, again, he has still not actually claimed that he is bleeding out today.
