@Monkey:
I'm ruling out death in regards to the more lighthearted scenario of a Mihawk/Zoro duel.
At this point, I hope that Luffy and Shanks meet up and have a treasure hunting game, where each Straw Hat has to deal with their "mentor" figure. Mihawk could participate in that. So once the game ends, the duel ends.
But those are sub-plots happening within the context of the larger plot. Zoro and all will have their personal moments and sub-plots, within that final period of plot. Trying to fit a deathmatch type Mihawk/Zoro duel into that just ends up with ridiculous outcomes and stupid scenarios.
No, what I am saying that the only thing those sub plots have in relation to the larger plot, is that it is their last chance to achieve it because the world will end. Sometimes it is finishing a mission, or getting revenge. These plots work well because they impede the characters from assuming their larger plot roles. So there is a conflict within the character from achieving his goal from his introduction, and abandoning that to help out in the larger plot. I think that this duel could be used that way, but as you said it has to be well written for it work. As I admitted before, it is just a shame that this character arc turns into another revenge plot even though we have plenty with Luffy, Ussop abd probably others as well.
For dramatic purposes it has to happened before the final fights, there is no after without it being forced and dumb.
As for "during", well that's my point above. That plausibly having it as part of the final battles is nonsensical.
That's why I have long since changed my argument to them fighting, from fighting at the final war.
You are assuming A LOT to assume that Zoro can buzz off and fight Mihawk in a vacuum after Raftel.
Assuming a lot or a little. I am just assuming that Luffy becomes the pirate king in Raftel from what we have in the story now. As you saw, I am well open to the idea of it being something he achieves by enacting on the information given at Raftel. And it is not that there is a vaccuum, I am saying despite there being plot going forward in Raftel, that character ambitions can interrupt that. We might think it is stupid, but not everyone is thinking about the world and saving it. Even Luffy might not enact on the information of Raftel but is pressed toove because he finds out about Blackbeard killing Shanks. It is more likely that Luffy would move out due to personal motives, and the by-product of that is him doing what is "right" either way. So it is not about seeing things in isolation, it is about also thinking about the characters themselves and their personalities.
So you guys have a big problem with Zoro's target since the 90's being changed, but Luffy (the main character) having some other different goal pop up after Raftel for the final parts of the series is no big deal? uh…..
I like how you pin me up in this group of obsessed fanatics, when Zoro isn't even one of my favourite characters, but that doesn't prevent me from objectively analyzing his role in the story. I don't have an issue with Zoro's objective to change, I don't think it is comprable to what I was talking about with Luffy. Regardless, my "problem" is that this particular storyline is going to be turned into a revenge plot. It adds cheap drama, especially because as of now, Zoro and Mihawk's relationship as master and student has little weight to it. But more so than that, is the fact that if so, it would mostly feel like Oda took the easy way out for Zoro's dream, by making it stem from revenge. So, like I have been saying it is not about the final fight, although I am happy to talk about ways it could still happen if built up properly. The only thing I am arguing for is that Zoro and Mihawk have a rematch, just so it can better build up the revenge plot. Not to mention that if the master/student relationship is to be used, there are many more ways to include a spar between them.
This has not described the relationship of Zoro to the crew since the very first volume. He's not up and leaving them after Raftel, especially amidst the assured plot momentum that will be occurring around then.
Zoro's has grown as he traveled with them, but I am not sure why the plot at Raftel has to affect every one of them in the same way. Even if it is the fate of world, not everyone is altruistic like that.
It is an extremely logical assumption.
Oki, but an assumption nonetheless.
The problem isn't his dream having focus as I've said, it's that focus coming entirely independent of the finale plot material. Even at this point in the story if Zoro went off after Mihawk it would have huge larger plot implications. Let alone by the end of the story.
You have to think of BOTH Zoro and Mihawk in terms of how they serve and interact with the rest of the plot.
You are right, I don't really think much about Mihawk because there isn't much to dwell upon. As I said before, making it a revenge plot is easy, and not too interesting. That's why I try to think of ways it can happen within the constraints of the story. And from what we have, I can only see it as a spar of sorts before the fall of the Red Hair pirates.
Luffy has never considered any such thing ever, even with Usopp the situation was different.
Yes, but what does Sanji think of it. Given his nature, maybe he does think he has to apologize.
Here's the thing people seem to miss about Water7.
That whole plot served many a purpose. But one of those was that it was supposed to give a sort of spiritual existential crisis to the crew.
What does that man?
It means it was supposed to test their bonds, see if they could fracture and suffer a variety of sudden traumatic losses (Usopp, Robin, Merry) and still hold together as a team. To come back afterwards, and move on from one actual "death" in the family (Merry).
In these kinds of plots those sort of situations are necessary at some point, stress testing the friendships and unity of the hero group.
The point is, they passed the test. Major challenges to that unity just won't really happened again. Sanji's motives are not a lack of unity, they're a similar self-sacrifice to what ended up being Robin's motives in Water7. Except minus the lighter connection she had with the crew at that time. So not even that.
Nothing serious is coming of this is my point.
Exactly, I don't think I missed that part, what I am saying is what happens when a similar situation arises how have the characters grown from it. You might consider Sanji's situation like Robin, with no problem of unity, but there was a lack of trust, Sanji did forsake the crew's help, he did leave the crew even though it was a trap. So it might not be anything that is touched upon later, but with the Sunny's state, and Pedro still missing, Sanji could cery well apologize to the entire crew once in Wano. Leaving what happened this arc as if didn't happen would be really bad.
Zoro is a massive pillar for the crew in his way. A sturdy central rock. In some ways he strikes me as the absolute last one to break ties.
The Zoro that challenged Luffy that he'd leave if his dream was compromised back in volume 1 was a Zoro who still barely knew Luffy. At this point? Everything has changed.
I know, and is that what I want to see challenge. Maybe the whole Sanji thing is not even mentioned. But considering it did happen, it is a murky line between what Robin, Ussop, Nami did, I am looking forward for that to be explored.
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