General 'Four Emperors' Discussion

[LightningAce]

@Count:

"Strongest female pirate" doesn't really garner much praise from me when the only precedent we have for female pirates is Alvida, Miss Valentine's Day, Miss Merry Christmas, Hancock, Perona, Bonney, Monet, Jora, Sugar, Smoothie, and Big Mom. That is not a good track record. And I doubt Devon was and will ever be near as strong as Linlin, or even Hancock for that matter.

Also, this Oda we're talking about. Do you really think he's going to pit her against one of the guys in a serious fight? We don't need another Zoro vs Monet or Usopp vs Perona. Or God forbid another Smoothie.

I bet Franky or Robin vs Wolf.

A few of them you mentioned aren't even pirates. They were part of Crocodile's criminal organization. Perona was a joke.

Smoothie may have been seriously under utilized this arc, but her 932 Million bounty speaks for itself.
Its not a matter of what you think. The level 6 prisoners were hyped by Ivankov and her especially and to be considered the most dangerous female pirate to be locked away there in that era, speaks volumes about her.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

Most dangerous female imprisoned in Impel down may sound good if she had some competiton, but I don't remember any other female locked in impel down, not even random female fodders. And crocodile himself was in level 6, so I don't get hyped about the lvl 6 BB members, the original crew could end up stronger, with the exception of shilliew for obvious reasons.

[Count Mario]

@LightningAce:

A few of them you mentioned aren't even pirates. They were part of Crocodile's criminal organization. Perona was a joke.

They were bounty hunters who hunted pirates. That does not change my point at all. Just reread Zoro vs Monet. Monet gets underestimated by Zoro. Tashigi is embarrassing during the fight. Zoro owns her at some point after getting bored watching, and scares Monet while slicing her without Armament Haki imbued. So Oda can't even have Zoro actually hurt Monet. And Tashigi gets in a cheap shot to make her seem impressive when she's really not.

That fight is the epitome of why Oda's never going to give the male Straw Hats compelling female enemies that don't have psychological weaknesses or are weak enough to get comedically defeated in one hit with obscured physical damage. He is not comfortable with having beautiful females overwhelm strong male opponents since Robin vs Yama or endure severe injuries unless it's supposed to make a scumbag villain like Spandam or the Vinsmokes look extra despicable.

Smoothie may have been seriously under utilized this arc, but her 932 Million bounty speaks for itself.
Its not a matter of what you think. The level 6 prisoners were hyped by Ivankov and her especially and to be considered the most dangerous female pirate to be locked away there in that era, speaks volumes about her.

All her 932 million bounty speaks is that Oda will try to say that female pirates can be strong but never have the on-panel showings to back it up against any male characters more relevant than background fodder. Tashigi and Hancock are prime examples of this. Big Mom's an anomaly because of her monstrous design defying Oda's bias towards "beautiful" women.

Oda's portrayal of female characters does not deserve having actual logic put into it. He's going to make Devon fight a girl because she is the token female Blackbeard Pirate. The fact that her title is literally tied to her gender rather than any actual objective feat is already telling. It's sad, but true.

Ivankov's Level 6 prisoner hype matters as much to me as Pekoms' Germa 66 hype or the silhouetted Big Mom Pirates at the start of the Totland arc. That is to say, very little. Especially when pre-timeskip Luffy and Crocodile are strong enough to get dumped to Level 6. Hell, you at least make it to Level 5 if you're stronger than Mr. 1. And considering how Level 6 is where criminals are meants to be erased from history, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of those inmates were moreso political prisoners than big physical threats. If Robin had to be placed in Impel Down, Level 6 is probably where she would go if they don't straight up execute her to prevent Poneglyph knowledge from spreading.

[maxterdexter]

Level 6 is a mistake. If they are going to be executing people, that level's inhabitants should all be dead.

You use a prison to:
Reform: Not the case, all Impel down Inmates are for life
Deterrent: The case for levels 1 to 5, because they are publicly acknowledged, and compared to every other hell, lvl6 seems cozy in comparison to the hunger, heat, cold, beast and needles tortures.
Cheap labor: They aren't moved around to be used, the bluegoris seem to capture all the food (on the levels where they actually feed the prisoners), they seem to just work to make things worse for everyone in the prison.
Containment for future use: The most likely one, with what we know of the WG, but the human experiments of Punk Hazzard could be done with way less dangerous inmates.
Containment because you can't kill them: Magellan's poisons, it's under his powers to make less painful poisons, things that shut down pain receptors before killing the victim.

And they put Ace for a while there, but then again, who he's going to tell about it, take Hancock there for a quick tour, and put Jimbe there with the intention of leaving him out after he cools down.

[K. Kira XXIII]

@No:

Unlikely as it may be, I would absolutely love to see Robin make a giant clone (or clones) of herself to megazord style fight SJW with.

Robin is going to use the Sunny as a giant laser cannon.

Vasco Shot with his piercing on his neck seems like a Fishman, and with the epithet, a drunk fishman karate user to boot. That's what I would like Jimbe to face.

[GolD.Ace22]

@LightningAce:

A few of them you mentioned aren't even pirates. They were part of Crocodile's criminal organization. Perona was a joke.

Smoothie may have been seriously under utilized this arc, but her 932 Million bounty speaks for itself.
Its not a matter of what you think. The level 6 prisoners were hyped by Ivankov and her especially and to be considered the most dangerous female pirate to be locked away there in that era, speaks volumes about her.

I agree completely here. I think Blackbeard's top 3 will be Burgess wit a DF, Catarinva Devon (vs Sanji), and Shiliew (vs Zoro). Catarina Devon isn't the Strongest Female Pirate (Charlotte Linlin), but i do believe her hype was real and she will be a great threat.

But to be fair i'm more so a believer that Vista will eventually join Teach's crew and be Zoro's final opponent. And that Vista will take Jozu's DF.
=D

[Dat_Mango]

@Law-ya:

I genuinely do not think Catarina would be that high up given Oda's usual girl vs girl fight (unless he upgrades Robin or Nami to be top-tier). I would gladly like to be proven wrong though.

We've had too many token "strong female pirates" in name only and Catarina is the token female Blackbeard member.

Nami fought Ms double finger. She was the second highest ranked be female

[Count Mario]

@GolD.Ace22:

I agree completely here. I think Blackbeard's top 3 will be Burgess wit a DF, Catarinva Devon (vs Sanji), and Shiliew (vs Zoro). Catarina Devon isn't the Strongest Female Pirate (Charlotte Linlin), but i do believe her hype was real and she will be a great threat.

But to be fair i'm more so a believer that Vista will eventually join Teach's crew and be Zoro's final opponent. And that Vista will take Jozu's DF.
=D

Sanji didn't hit Mr. 2 when he looked like Nami. He didn't hit Califa, which almost got him (and Nami by getting her to replace him, AND Robin indirectly if Califa had the seastone cuffs key) killed. He didn't hit Viola, who tried to kill him before reforming. He hasn't hit Pudding and has even saved/complimented her after everything she has done. He hasn't hit Big Mom (and no, hitting her Zeus fist to defend Reiju does not count).

Sanji is NEVER fighting a woman. Period.

[Jaime]

LMAO at Sanji hitting a women.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

@Count:

Sanji didn't hit Mr. 2 when he looked like Nami. He didn't hit Califa, which almost got him (and Nami by getting her to replace him, AND Robin indirectly if Califa had the seastone cuffs key) killed. He didn't hit Viola, who tried to kill him before reforming. He hasn't hit Pudding and has even saved/complimented her after everything she has done. He hasn't hit Big Mom (and no, hitting her Zeus fist to defend Reiju does not count).

Sanji is NEVER fighting a woman. Period.

Well, after 70% of the story you would think no women would fall for sanji either, yet we get pudding.

Not going to bet money on sanji hitting women by the time this story ends, but oda sure makes some changes with sanji in his arc. First he had to let go of zeff that got him here in the first place, maybe at some point he will be forced to let go of his pop's no hit women rules too.
What if he is in the scenario of smoothie wrecking everyone on the ship and he has to stop her.

Anyway, I'm conviced that sanji will get Burgess, not devon, but that is not the point here.

[Jaime]

He's not fighting Smoothie, I buy Pudding one shotting her before Sanji even hits her.

[Count Mario]

@uniaka:

Well, after 70% of the story you would think no women would fall for sanji either, yet we get pudding.

Not going to bet money on sanji hitting women by the time this story ends, but oda sure makes some changes with sanji in his arc. First he had to let go of zeff that got him here in the first place, maybe at some point he will be forced to let go of his pop's no hit women rules too.
What if he is in the scenario of smoothie wrecking everyone on the ship and he has to stop her.

Anyway, I'm conviced that sanji will get Burgess, not devon, but that is not the point here.

Viola liked Sanji. The mermaids in Fishman Island liked Sanji. This is less about Sanji changing and more about Oda changing how much romance we will get in Romance Dawn. Which is still not that big, but is noticable. Such as Kyros' flashback.

Sanji letting go of Zeff doesn't change much about Sanji's character at all aside from learning to trust his friends. Which every major arc ally learns in one way or another. None of this is that revolutionary.

[Johnny B. Decent]

This post is deleted!

[Johnny B. Decent]

On the subject of the Blackbeards I have a potentially controversial idea that has no basis yet.

I don't think Wolf is one of the Titanic 10. Mostly because on him not being able to set foot on a ship being that huge and such. Nor do I think he will be a 1 VS 1 opponent. Moreso like a Oars/group fight.

[Count Mario]

@S.C.:

On the subject of the Blackbeards I have a potentially controversial idea that has no basis yet.

I don't think Wolf is one of the Titanic 10. Mostly because on him not being able to set foot on a ship being that huge and such. Nor do I think he will be a 1 VS 1 opponent. Moreso like a Oars/group fight.

I want him to be a damn ship lol. He can already swim across the ocean. It would make his "Colossal Battleship" epithet fitting.

Giant Robin or Franky making the Sunny become a Shogun Megazord could take him. Teamups are neat, but small characters beat up giant creatures all of the time.

[Johnny B. Decent]

@Count:

I want him to be a damn ship lol. It would make his "Colossal Battleship" epithet fitting.

Giant Robin or Franky making the Sunny become a Shogun Megazord could take him. Teamups are neat, but small characters beat up giant creatures all of the time.

But Wolf is a giant among giants. Even Shogun Sunny would be tiny compared to him, still.

[Count Mario]

@S.C.:

But Wolf is a giant among giants. Even Shogun Sunny would be tiny compared to him, still.

I know. Which is why he would fight him Shadow of the Colossus/David and Goliath style. Imagine him gliding across the ocean to dodge Wolf's attacks. Climbing on Wolf's body to hit weakpoints. Hell, he could even be swallowed by Wolf Monstro-style lol. Wolf has size, but a Sunny Megazord has manueverability and weapons.

[Medical Orbit]

Why wouldn't Kuzan be one of Blackbeard's top 3? Or do we not know the details of their working together (meaning we don't know whether he's a titan captain/direct crew member)?

Re: Croc and Luffy in level 6. Luffy was placed in level 5.

[KageKageKing]

@Medical:

Why wouldn't Kuzan be one of Blackbeard's top 3? Or do we not know the details of their working together (meaning we don't know whether he's a titan captain/direct crew member)?

There were already 10 Titan Captains before Kuzan joined it.

It's like the 5th time this have to be addresed.

[Count Mario]

@Medical:

Why wouldn't Kuzan be one of Blackbeard's top 3? Or do we not know the details of their working together (meaning we don't know whether he's a titan captain/direct crew member)?

Re: Croc and Luffy in level 6. Luffy was placed in level 5.

Kuzan has only been remarked as an ally this far. And I doubt he's really gone evil without a hidden selfless agenda.

That correction means that Level 6 prisoners could be sent there more on risk/crime severity rather than power levels.

[Law-ya]

Count Mario has written out perfectly why Catarina cannot be in the top, or rather why Oda won't do it. He's not a fan of hurting pretty women unless it's to show "now this villain is extra despicable" or if damage is being done it will be by another female (usually Nami). 'Ugly' females can take some damage but is usually just a one-shot.

The final nail in the proverbial coffin will be if Oda decides to not give Linlin an actual battle and instead defeats her through a single punch (Alvida-style) or reforms her through the cake/recall of the true past (psychologically beaten a la Perona/Sugar/Hancock style). Conveniently enough it has been Nami's final attacks that have put any scratches on Big Mom.

As for Wolf, I'd be equally excited whether we'll have giant Robin or mega-Shogun. Both sound epic enough.

[GolD.Ace22]

@Count:

Sanji didn't hit Mr. 2 when he looked like Nami. He didn't hit Califa, which almost got him (and Nami by getting her to replace him, AND Robin indirectly if Califa had the seastone cuffs key) killed. He didn't hit Viola, who tried to kill him before reforming. He hasn't hit Pudding and has even saved/complimented her after everything she has done. He hasn't hit Big Mom (and no, hitting her Zeus fist to defend Reiju does not count).

Sanji is NEVER fighting a woman. Period.

Trust me Sanji's final test will be defeating Catarina Devon and hitting a woman. The same way Zoro's will be defeating Vista and cutting diamond.

@Count:

Kuzan has only been remarked as an ally this far. And I doubt he's really gone evil without a hidden selfless agenda.

That correction means that Level 6 prisoners could be sent there more on risk/crime severity rather than power levels.

Level 6 prisoners in Impel Down are based on strength from what we were shown. I would think that if it was about risk or crime severity then Luffy would surely have been lvl 6. And to be fair Luffy at start of the series would've been strong enough to be a lvl 4 prisoner.
=D

[maxterdexter]

Now I'm kind of hoping that she drags herself into the Kaidoh fight. My original plan was that they parted in good grace with the Strawhats, and then the bomb went off and made her chase the Sunny, but now if we ever see her again, it will be after Wano.

[Law-ya]

@GolD.Ace22:

Level 6 prisoners in Impel Down are based on strength from what we were shown. I would think that if it was about risk or crime severity then Luffy would surely have been lvl 6. And to be fair Luffy at start of the series would've been strong enough to be a lvl 4 prisoner.
=D

Would've agreed with you if they hadn't thrown Croco-boy in there. I know he's strong but if he's lvl 6 material then there's no reason to believe that all lvl 6 prisoners are monsters. The BB crew from lvl 6 are definitely strong and in a class of their own considering that BB basically had a death-match and plucked the strongest of them but lvl 6 is for the criminals that they want to erase from history because they were too 'evil'. This can be straight-based or just perceived threat. Child Robin would have probably been sent there too.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

This post is deleted!

[Count Mario]

@GolD.Ace22:

Trust me Sanji's final test will be defeating Catarina Devon and hitting a woman. The same way Zoro's will be defeating Vista and cutting diamond.

Level 6 prisoners in Impel Down are based on strength from what we were shown. I would think that if it was about risk or crime severity then Luffy would surely have been lvl 6. And to be fair Luffy at start of the series would've been strong enough to be a lvl 4 prisoner.
=D

Sanji isn't going to fight a woman when Zeff told him that is wrong. No matter how sexist it is. Hitting a woman at this point would make Sanji an awful hypocrite.

Shiryu can get the diamond fruit. I don't see why Vista would defect. Or how Zoro isn't going to fight Shiryu, who is all but confirmed to be the second strongest Blackbeard Pirate given his Impel Down jail manager build-up.

Like Law-ya said, Crocodile.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

@Count:

Sanji isn't going to fight a woman when Zeff told him that is wrong. No matter how sexist it is. Hitting a woman at this point would make Sanji an awful hypocrite.

Shiryu can get the diamond fruit. I don't see why Vista would defect. Or how Zoro isn't going to fight Shiryu, who is all but confirmed to be the second strongest Blackbeard Pirate given his Impel Down jail manager build-up.

Like Law-ya said, Crocodile.

I imagine the Whole point of SHs qutting the crew and join again is to let go of the past and go with the present and future, the crew. Sanji's past is what got him here in almost no escape situation, like Zeff and germa. And SHs save him from his past so he can focus on the future and go after his dreams. Not awful hypocrite, but the Zeffxist rules stand in the way of his dreams, and friends if they ever needs rescue from girls.

And it's not just sanii, but it was with nami, robin, usopp, and I imagine everyone will get it. Even jimbei if at some point fishman Island gets in trouble. even zoro has to let go of his pride and beg his rival to train him.

[Law-ya]

@uniaka:

I imagine the Whole point of SHs qutting the crew and join again is to let go of the past and go with the present and future, the crew. Sanji's past is what got him here in almost no escape situation, like Zeff and germa. And SHs save him from his past so he can focus on the future and go after his dreams. Not awful hypocrite, but the Zeffxist rules stand in the way of his dreams, and friends if they ever needs rescue from girls.

And it's not just sanji, but it was with nami, robin, usopp, and I imagine everyone will get it. Even jimbei if at some point fishman Island gets in trouble. even zoro has to let go of his pride and beg his rival to train him.

The difference between Sanji and the rest (Nami, Robin, Ussop, and Zoro) is that the positive person in Sanji's life laid down that rule. Nami is money-hungry due to a negative influence (Arlong), Robin was distant due to a negative influence (WG and how people betrayed her), and then Zoro's pride is a self-made thing (he had it in spades even before Kuina died).

If Sanji's 'respect' for women came from having only females be nice to him and he grew with a warped vision (women are motherly, women are kind, women this, women that) I would totally agree that there would be a good chance for Sanji to change his ways. But the fact remains that Zeff laid down those rules and in Sanji's eyes Zeff is his saviour, father, and he cannot disobey him. He doesn't want to bring shame to Zeff's teaching or be the source of disappointment.

I would gladly eat my own words if down the line Sanji is able to divorce from his unhealthy obsession with idolising Zeff and his teachings but that would make out Sanji into a big hypocrite and I don't know if I like that alternative better… However for this to happen then idol and saviour 2.0 (Luffy) has to have a problem with Sanji's ways because as seen in Ennies Lobby: almost being killed by a woman or said woman being an accomplice in the almost-execution of another crew mate (female too) is little incentive for Sanji to suddenly change his ways.

Clash of idol ideals to create conflict within Sanji. But going back to chapter "Liar" (good timing that the anime is almost there) we are given the impression that Luffy 100% accepts who Sanji is. Flaws and all. And it just wouldn't be Luffy if he minds the flaws of his crew mates.

[Count Mario]

@uniaka:

I imagine the Whole point of SHs qutting the crew and join again is to let go of the past and go with the present and future, the crew. Sanji's past is what got him here in almost no escape situation, like Zeff and germa. And SHs save him from his past so he can focus on the future and go after his dreams.

And it's not just sanii, but it was with nami, robin, usopp, and I imagine everyone will get it. Even jimbei if at some point fishman Island gets in trouble.

I doubt that everybody will get it to the degree of quitting the crew each and every time. That is WAY too much story repetition. And every single instance is executed differently, so there's only so many times this can work for Oda. Most Straw Hats let go of the past in the arcs they join too. Sanji's arc in this arc is less about the past (he could care less about his family, he never wanted to prove anything to them, only to save them) and more about beings self-sacrificial. Sort of the opposite of how Usopp was insecure about his fragility and abandoning a crewmate like the Going Merry, Sanji is too self-sacrificial.

We will probably find out about things like Zoro's parents, Nami's parents, Robin's dad, Franky's parents, Brook's kingdom, and maybe a personal Jinbe flashback. But I doubt we will get anymore of people leaving the crew. At least until the final arcs.

[K. Kira XXIII]

Only other one I can see is Zoro.

[Count Mario]

I think Nami and Zoro are the ones that can go without revealing their parents. The rest raise a bunch of questions though.

[K. Kira XXIII]

I was talking about leaving the crew, but yeah I hope we see more of the other crew members' past.

[Big Black Hole]

@K.:

I was talking about leaving the crew, but yeah I hope we see more of the other crew members' past.

Zoro leaving the crew?

He's the only one to even get a "Member of the Strawhat crew"-chapter, which at the time it was released was heavily debated to imply that all crewmembers might get something like this in return (which hasn't seem to come true).

If any crewmember is safe from leaving and re-joining the crew it's Zoro (and Nami and Usopp and now Sanji too, since they already have had their "crew-leaving" moments).

[Sibersk Esto]

I doubt Zoro will ever get a "leave the crew" arc. 1/3 of his personality is "ride or die for Luffy". You can't pull the end of Thriller Bark sacrifice and then still expect to get away with that.

[Count Mario]

Kira brings up Zoro leaving the crew after helping the Straw Hats make it to Raftel. Not that I agree with that, but his context isn't Zoro leaving the crew because of some burden or insecurity other than achieving his dream.

[maxterdexter]

The thing is that if a character is open with their reasons for leaving the crew, the rest are almost certain to follow, unless it's something that is close enough to not matter.

And the repetition on "I didn't really like you guys, die" was already brought up.

[kevo_koma]

@K.:

I was talking about leaving the crew, but yeah I hope we see more of the other crew members' past.

Why do you think Zoro will leave the crew?

I think Zoro already "proved" his SH credentials by throwing away his pride and asking Mihawk to train just so he could help Luffy become the Pirate King. Heck in fact it was even before that, way back in Thriller Bark when he was ready to die for Luffy. Because remember he told Luffy when they met, that he would basically discard him if he ever stood in the way of his dream and yet he was ready to die, just so Luffy could live and accomplish his dream.

Sanji never got the chance to sacrifice for the crew like that(Zoro cut him off), so Oda basically gave him an entire arc to do it.

Out of all the SH I can't think of any reason Zoro would have to leave the crew at any point in the future.

[uniaka ikuzakas]

At some point Zoro could want to go after WSS to challenge him, like mihawk, that would count as his quit the crew moment.

And doesn't alabasta, when he fights luffy, sort of counts for something?

Even luffy had his quit the crew and leave to rescue ace thing.

[No swords style best style]

@uniaka:

At some point Zoro could want to go after WSS to challenge him, like mihawk, that would count as his quit the crew moment.

And doesn't alabasta, when he fights luffy, sort of counts for something?

Even luffy had his quit the crew and leave to rescue ace thing.

In Whiskey Peak, Luffy is the one who attacked Zoro because he thought the bounty hunters Zoro dealt with were good people since they welcomed the SHs with a party (in order get them drunk and vulnerable).

Also, Luffy didn't exactly leave the crew willingly, that was Kuma's doing.

[K. Kira XXIII]

[hide]@Big:

Zoro leaving the crew?

He's the only one to even get a "Member of the Strawhat crew"-chapter, which at the time it was released was heavily debated to imply that all crewmembers might get something like this in return (which hasn't seem to come true).

If any crewmember is safe from leaving and re-joining the crew it's Zoro (and Nami and Usopp and now Sanji too, since they already have had their "crew-leaving" moments).

@Sibersk:

I doubt Zoro will ever get a "leave the crew" arc. 1/3 of his personality is "ride or die for Luffy". You can't pull the end of Thriller Bark sacrifice and then still expect to get away with that.

@kevo_koma:

Why do you think Zoro will leave the crew?

I think Zoro already "proved" his SH credentials by throwing away his pride and asking Mihawk to train just so he could help Luffy become the Pirate King. Heck in fact it was even before that, way back in Thriller Bark when he was ready to die for Luffy. Because remember he told Luffy when they met, that he would basically discard him if he ever stood in the way of his dream and yet he was ready to die, just so Luffy could live and accomplish his dream.

Sanji never got the chance to sacrifice for the crew like that(Zoro cut him off), so Oda basically gave him an entire arc to do it.

Out of all the SH I can't think of any reason Zoro would have to leave the crew at any point in the future.

[/hide]

As Count Mario (thanks) already mentioned. Zoro leaving the crew wouldn't be anything like the Nami's, Robin's, Usopp's nor Sanji's situation. Although, depending on how things are handled with what just happened with Sanji, at least I will have a better idea if it will happen or not.

Basically, it is precisely because of things that you all mention. His sacrifice in Thriller Bark, later on relinquishing his pride to train with Mihawk. If you trail back when he joined and threatened Luffy to get rid of him if he got in the way of his goal. Not to mention Usopp's apology. Of course, after we got the apology we got Thriller Bark, so anyone will have thought, that was just a red herring for this scene to be more impactful. But then, another member tried to quit the crew ( for whatever reason). Not only that, it was the guy that was trying to take his place in Thriller Bark. All I am saying here is that Oda has all these elements to work with to make it work.

Why? Well I imagine it to be after they reach Raftel and Luffy becomes the pirate king. Everyone is happy and then Zoro tells Luffy that he has helped him achieve his goal. The reason why he relinquished his pride. With that out of the way, there is a goal he needs to accomplish as well. So he is quitting the crew. Everyone especially Chopper and Sanji will freak out. Sanji saying that if anyone should leave it should be him. But Luffy then just tells him: well I am the pirate king now, so you should at least be the strongest. Zoro gives an annoyed chuckle and then it turns into all of them saying: don't get lost on your way back. Oops, I got into too much detail.

TL;DR: Zoro leaves to accomplish his goal, but Luffy is okay with him doing so and is more about them wishing him good luck before his fight to become the strongest swordsman.

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@uniaka:

At some point Zoro could want to go after WSS to challenge him, like mihawk, that would count as his quit the crew moment.

And doesn't alabasta, when he fights luffy, sort of counts for something?

Even luffy had his quit the crew and leave to rescue ace thing.

There's a difference between leaving permanently and taking a leave of absence, heck sanji was gonna try and square everything up and return & that's partly why he didnt want the guys coming after him

[MiyamotoMusashi]

Good thing Zoro can both stay in the crew and follow his dream, considering he is gonna what Mihawk could not do, beat Shiryuu with diamond fruit

[Dat_Mango]

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Good thing Zoro can both stay in the crew and follow his dream, considering he is gonna what Mihawk could not do, beat Shiryuu with diamond fruit

What if he can already cut diamond and instead of it being used as a cheap mr 1 rehash, jozu charges at Luffy when they meet again and zoro nonchalantly sends some weak ass one sword style his way and gives him a scratch through the diamond. The thought of zoro looking down at jozu and being like "make your next decision very carefully" is just a much better image in my mind

Zoros fight for the greatest swordsman against shirew, would be so much better if it was just two dope ass swordsmen duking it out with swords

[Long John Silvers Rayleigh]

@Dat_Mango:

What if he can already cut diamond and instead of it being used as a cheap mr 1 rehash, jozu charges at Luffy when they meet again and zoro nonchalantly sends some weak ass one sword style his way and gives him a scratch through the diamond. The thought of zoro looking down at jozu and being like "make your next decision very carefully" is just a much better image in my mind

Zoros fight for the greatest swordsman against shirew, would be so much better if it was just two dope ass swordsmen duking it out with swords

Well yeah thatd be cool of zoro but than when has jozu been a stupid raging bully. Thats making a character act stupid and ooc so another cool character can look cool and thats a lot lamer than a ,r 1 rehash

[K. Kira XXIII]

Anyways, it was just a fun thought. But that aside, Zoro's ultimate feat of cutting diamonds when people can summer meteors, change the weather condtions of an island, level cities with a single punch…cutting diamonds seems like a big whoop dee doo.

Unless you are Sanji, for him breaking diamonds seems like an appropriate feat.

[MiyamotoMusashi]

@Dat_Mango:

What if he can already cut diamond and instead of it being used as a cheap mr 1 rehash, jozu charges at Luffy when they meet again and zoro nonchalantly sends some weak ass one sword style his way and gives him a scratch through the diamond. The thought of zoro looking down at jozu and being like "make your next decision very carefully" is just a much better image in my mind

Zoros fight for the greatest swordsman against shirew, would be so much better if it was just two dope ass swordsmen duking it out with swords

Why would Jozu attack Luffy?

And yes, if anything, MF pretty much gave credibility to theory that´s been around since Shiliew joined the BB Pirates and we had that comment by Zoro in Alabasta.
The fight against Shiliew will never have that connotation since unlike Zoro vs Ryuuma or Zoro vs Mihawk, it´s not supposed to be the fight of two respectable figures, the BB Pirates are villains through and through, and Shiliew taking out Mihawk before that with such a hurdle so to speak gives the fight even another layer.

Oda will never let somebody take the title of WSS away from Mihawk without any context and by simply having someone be an even better swordsmen (and the distinction is important since Zoro also promised the same thing, to never lost against any swordsmen) but Zoro will prove that he is the WSS by achieving what Mihawk could not.

Whether that makes the future fight better or not, i am not gonna argue, just saying that Oda was never above rehashing ideas and concepts (heck the reason for the entire current arc is something we have been through several times).

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@K.:

Anyways, it was just a fun thought. But that aside, Zoro's ultimate feat of cutting diamonds when people can summer meteors, change the weather condtions of an island, level cities with a single punch…cutting diamonds seems like a big whoop dee doo.

Unless you are Sanji, for him breaking diamonds seems like an appropriate feat.

You might have been right when the current WSS was literally stopped by diamond and that WSS had feats pretty comparable or even superior to the feats you mentioned.
Pretty sure cutting diamond will not have much to do with the strength of his cut, but it´s gonna be "breath of all things" V2.

[K. Kira XXIII]

I don't hold Mihawk waving his arm and Jozu needing to use his fruit to stop it, when we have seen people blocking sword slashes with their arms, that high. As other see that as Mihawk's lacking in capability, I see it that Jozu had to rely on his fruit to block a mere flying slash.

I am sure that it will be something related to that too. I just see him accomplishing said goal before his final fight. I still find Burguess fighting style suited for the diamond fruit better. Shybum gives me vibes of someone that is hard to put down no matter how much you cut him (phoenix).

[SuburbanErrorist]

@Count:

Kuzan has only been remarked as an ally this far. And I doubt he's really gone evil without a hidden selfless agenda.

That correction means that Level 6 prisoners could be sent there more on risk/crime severity rather than power levels.

Whitebeard even mentioned that he was being friendly with Buggy because he actually doesn't want those prisoners to against the Whitebeard pirates because they're "troublesome" so they're quite strong.

[thegab]

@K.:

I don't hold Mihawk waving his arm and Jozu needing to use his fruit to stop it, when we have seen people blocking sword slashes with their arms, that high. As other see that as Mihawk's lacking in capability, I see it that Jozu had to rely on his fruit to block a mere flying slash.

I am sure that it will be something related to that too. I just see him accomplishing said goal before his final fight. I still find Burguess fighting style suited for the diamond fruit better. Shybum gives me vibes of someone that is hard to put down no matter how much you cut him (phoenix).

Ya that's how I viewed it too. Dunno if Mihawk could cut diamond, but in that situation he wasn't trying to cut diamond so I don't think it's fair to use that as an example that he can't.

[Dat_Mango]

@Long:

Well yeah thatd be cool of zoro but than when has jozu been a stupid raging bully. Thats making a character act stupid and ooc so another cool character can look cool and thats a lot lamer than a ,r 1 rehash

Ooc ? The second whitebeard was targeted (by aokiji, a real threat) jozu charges in no questions asked even though he was an ant compared to whitebeard. So Luffy who whitebeard placed 100% of his trust for Ace and the new era on, to only have Ace and pops stripped from him? Then two years later finally having the opportunity to be like "pop's faith should have been placed in me" shit?.. . How could someone we know so much of act so rashly?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@MiyamotoMusashi:

Why would Jozu attack Luffy?

And yes, if anything, MF pretty much gave credibility to theory that´s been around since Shiliew joined the BB Pirates and we had that comment by Zoro in Alabasta.
The fight against Shiliew will never have that connotation since unlike Zoro vs Ryuuma or Zoro vs Mihawk, it´s not supposed to be the fight of two respectable figures, the BB Pirates are villains through and through, and Shiliew taking out Mihawk before that with such a hurdle so to speak gives the fight even another layer.

Oda will never let somebody take the title of WSS away from Mihawk without any context and by simply having someone be an even better swordsmen (and the distinction is important since Zoro also promised the same thing, to never lost against any swordsmen) but Zoro will prove that he is the WSS by achieving what Mihawk could not.

Whether that makes the future fight better or not, i am not gonna argue, just saying that Oda was never above rehashing ideas and concepts (heck the reason for the entire current arc is something we have been through several times).

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

You might have been right when the current WSS was literally stopped by diamond and that WSS had feats pretty comparable or even superior to the feats you mentioned.
Pretty sure cutting diamond will not have much to do with the strength of his cut, but it´s gonna be "breath of all things" V2.

I'm not saying shirew vs zoro needs to be honorable I'm saying if it's for wss then it better be based on swordsanship skills vs swordsanship skills rather than great swordsman vs decent dude who's uncuttable if anything mf proved that on some random "our distance vs his" instinctual attack mihawk sent to wb which jozu laughed at, who's to say that wasn't the same stregnth mihawk and see when he tested fate vs Luffy and Mr 1 blocked it under bosses orders mr1 didn't even scoff at that blow
Oh why would a man as skilled as mihawk send some basic ass attack against Luffy as he would a yonku, you may ask.

I'm glad you brought this up actually….why would he act you strongest at the start of a najor arc while texting his base stregnth against whom he assumes in the biggest threat?

I'm hoping zoroz words in alabasta against Mr 1 are true. . . What's next diamonds?!
Zoro: " fucking why?"

Secondly musashi, if was fight isn't to be of two respectable fighters, then what's the point in the title? Like i get it in respect of the world virwong it but what of zoros dream? Well there was this really strongswordman but one day a guy ate a magic fruit and he couldn't be cut anymore.....no, no he was only meidocre at swordplay but who could ever cut diamond.....

Idk maybe it should be a sbs question "does Zoro want to be the world's greatest swordsman or wss?" Because if he wants to be the strongest hecan go back to wanting to fight jesus