Wow, that was about as cookiecutter an ending could be. Too bad we didn't see it 200-300 chapters ago. There was like no finality to it.
Fairy Tail Series IV Discussion
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Oh man this fucker Mashima really has no shame…
I don't fucking care if his work ethic is good or not, I only appreciate good quality work and not a pile of shit.
You would fought a creator of a over 500 chapter Manga would have some kind of pride of his series, but it seems this guy only has pride in his consistent Fan service and overall Bullshit moments.Please God hopefully his next work will be a total failure, which I sadly highly doubt...
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Lets keep in mind that to be disappointed you first have to have expectations. At the minimal, fairy tail set some pretty good expectations that everyone in this thread had at least once or twice.
If not i cant fathom why you would keep reading it. But hey maybe you are a complete cynic and i am wrong.Trust me I hate Mashima as a writer and loath what Ft turned into to. But you cannot forget that Fairy Tail had some good moments here and there.
I read plenty of garbage stuff to understand what makes something objectively bad and/appreciate the works that are crafted well with techniques, and author-input. Same thing with people who like analyzing The Room, and understanding why certain movies can objectively be shit.
And no, I didn't have any real expectations of it. It fails on the very basic element of telling a story using drawings. Most people aren't going to talk about it because most people don't really care, or even know what FT fundamentally gets wrong.
Its not original but Mashima did a number of things right despite "copying".
Nope.
FT is fundamentally shit. There is not a single thing it does right. People just have low-expectations, and will let some of the most basic stuff, that FT gets wrong in every way possible, slide.
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FT is fundamentally shit. There is not a single thing it does right. People just have low-expectations, and will let some of the most basic stuff, that FT gets wrong in every way possible, slide.
Yes, it is objectively bad and does fail at almost every criteria. However, it does not fail at absolutely every criteria. One of the very few things it does right is the hook - which is also one of these criteria points.
What's so bad about the very first chapter? Is there anything about the first chapter that not only says every potential will be wasted, but also there actually isn't any potential at all? What does the first chapter wrong that prevents the audience from getting hooked in?
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What's so bad about the very first chapter? Is there anything about the first chapter that not only says every potential will be wasted, but also there actually isn't any potential at all? What does the first chapter wrong that prevents the audience from getting hooked in?
What is there to talk about? The bland setting? Bland art? Bland characters? Very basic plot? Typical comedy? Very basic designs? All the shonen tropes? Or the fact that Natsu is a giant Luffy rip-off? Or Lucy is Nami rip-off?
There was absolutely nothing unique or hooking about how the series started. No emotional punch, or anything that separated FT from the rest of the shonen series.
From its style, to its panel layout to its designs to its comedy to its setting to its scenarios, were all painfully sub-par in the first chapter. And the first chapter is the best that the series has to offer.
Everything from that point on devolves into the butchering of the most basic story/character/fantasy/visual elements that puts FT in the hall of shame, and makes it quite possibly the single worst manga series out there.
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Natsu groping Wendy and Lucy on the color page for last chapter, appropriate.:ninja:
Slight setting change, rename the characters and slightly adjust their hair and boom, Mashimas next series with the same problems isn't far off. xD
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It's going to be a technology series about a boy with fire gauntlets who absorb fire, and a girl who can open wormholes to other dimensions and bring warriors that do her bidding.
It's going to be called spaceship tale.
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Mmm substanard finale but it was a sweet one nonetheless. Likewise I'm happy they didn't pair Natsu and Lucy, they just seem like good friends and I'm glad at least Mashima sees it that way. Only gripe I can give is that if Anna is stuck in the future, isn't that a paradox. The dragon slayers were one thing since they didn't have family but Anna is Lucy's ancestor so…wouldn't Lucy you know...not exist.
Not much to really say, it a happy ending and really that's all I can ask for. It's been a fun ride FT and, though the last few arcs were shoddy and I've had my complaints. I don't regret reading it. It was still plenty charming and I'll be more then happy to re-read previous arcs. Here's to another successful series. Mr Mashima, but please dude, work on your plot for the next please ^^.
She had to have had a baby before anyways
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A quest that is supposedly so hard that it takes 100 years to complete. It was mentioned in the first ~100 chapters btw, so you could technically remember :)
Gildartz tried it but had to quit after getting destroyed by Acnologia.
Im pretty sure they were tasks that had gone 100 years without being done
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I have to say though, in retrospect I hated reading Bleach a lot more than Fairy Tail. Like it was just a flat out unpleasant experience for years. Whereas Fairy Tail was just so meh from the beginning I never worked up emotions to be mad about it.
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You say Bleach was good for 1/3rd of it's run, proceding to state that you knew FT was shit since FF. Which started well past the 1/3rd mark (chapter 256 = post Time-Skip, which I'll just use as the starting point for this arc). This was almost halfway through the Manga (46% done), so you seem to think FT had the longer and better run technically.
Fun stuff.
you knew FT was shit since FF. Which started well past the 1/3rd mark (chapter 256 = post Time-Skip, which I'll just use as the starting point for this arc)
since FF. Which started well past the 1/3rd mark
… lol wut http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Fairy_Tail_arc
The arc was only 1/5 to 1/4 of the show. I think you confused Fighting Festival for Grand Magic games bud.
I read plenty of garbage stuff to understand what makes something objectively bad and/appreciate the works that are crafted well with techniques, and author-input. Same thing with people who like analyzing The Room, and understanding why certain movies can objectively be shit.
And no, I didn't have any real expectations of it. It fails on the very basic element of telling a story using drawings. Most people aren't going to talk about it because most people don't really care, or even know what FT fundamentally gets wrong.
FT is fundamentally shit. There is not a single thing it does right. People just have low-expectations, and will let some of the most basic stuff, that FT gets wrong in every way possible, slide.
I kind of agree.
Even though most people recognize its flaws, it still of stuns me when people say it was good until the timeskip. Like… really? Fairy Tail was never really good at its best, only intriguing. I don't know how people really read through it without having to consciously let everything slide. I guess it's the Superhero movie syndrome, where the design/"flavor" makes it easier to forgive any shortcomings.
Natsu as a character was intriguing in the first chapter, but then he quickly devolved pretty much when Erza came into the show (Natsu became a shonen protaganist robot).
The series still had potential, but started to show really serious cracks in Phantom Lord. Tower of Heaven was good (in comparison, that is), then the show became full fledged shit afterwards.
So you're looking at a series that was 90% pure shit, and 10% not shit (with most of that 10% in the beginning, the rest sprinkled throughout). But it was never fully good for any meaningfully sustained period of time.
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I guess people are more into the comcept of a story than the story itself.
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Fairy tale is both liked and dislike worse than it should be because the big potential/interesting concepts. Like worst manga ever is ridiculous, maybe worst 300 chapter one but theres been plenty of ones that didnt last as long because they were terrible and some Id say that finished were still bad
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@Long:
Fairy tale is both liked and dislike worse than it should be because the big potential/interesting concepts. Like worst manga ever is ridiculous, maybe worst 300 chapter one but theres been plenty of ones that didnt last as long because they were terrible and some Id say that finished were still bad
No FT is one of the worst manga ever, and easily the big contender for the worst manga ever.
But as i said before, most people aren't going to notice, or know where FT fundamentally fails. Not as in "it was good, but went down", but more like "it gets every single element of the visual medium wrong".
It's fine if you, or other people were "hooked" on the series, but trying to say that it isn't as bad is simply false.
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No FT is one of the worst manga ever, and easily the big contender for the worst manga ever.
But as i said before, most people aren't going to notice, or know where FT fundamentally fails. Not as in "it was good, but went down", but more like "it gets every single element of the visual medium wrong".
It's fine if you, or other people were "hooked" on the series, but trying to say that it isn't as bad is simply false.
There's a difference between bad and worst though, a really moldy piece of bread is better than arsenic. I just think for all the copycat-ing it did, it hit the safer parts generally well. There's been series that have tried to been innovative and just broke story convention for "hey nobody's gone that way" that has been worse. I understand my like of is a guilty pleasure kind of thing and not brought by objective quality but Idk maybe it's something to do with how each of us reads manga, I'm generally ok with turning my brain off for certain things and not questioning the holes in the story and looking to deep into something unless I love it like one piece if someone did that to everything then they'd probably find a ton of problems with fairy tail. Even before this last arc.
I still stand by the thing if it wasn't about magic by itself and an idea that hadn't been explored that much in shonen it would have been less focused on, so there'd be less fans and people that don't like it. I don't know but the people on the "reddits" who like it and don't like it always go back to the word potential.
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So, judging solely from chapter 1, what exactly is it that not only makes the characters bland, but also absolutely destroys any possible future potential?
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No FT is one of the worst manga ever, and easily the big contender for the worst manga ever.
Omg u r so right and knowledgeable!!! Please enlighten all of us with a perfectly sound explanation!!1
Except you can't because you can't make a statement backed by anything to save yourself.
We don't need you to point out that FT is shit we all know that.
Edit: I'm not trolling. I'm just sick of reading your posts that keep bashing ft and saying it got everything wrong without explaining how it got wrong.
Okay it's generic but there's potential. At the basic level everyone agreed on that. Either you can see into the future or you're just pulling it out of your ass near its end. -
Omg u r so right and knowledgeable!!! Please enlighten all of us with a perfectly sound explanation!!1
Except you can't because you can't make a statement backed by anything to save yourself.
We don't need you to point out that FT is shit we all know that.
Edit: I'm not trolling. I'm just sick of reading your posts that keep bashing ft and saying it got everything wrong without explaining how it got wrong.
Okay it's generic but there's potential. At the basic level everyone agreed on that. Either you can see into the future or you're just pulling it out of your ass near its end.This isn't a scientific-based discussion lol.
My job here isn't to pick apart every single panel of the series, and explain to you what it gets wrong in scientific terms when you should be able to identify it yourself.
But here; why don't you explain how FT didn't get everything wrong. Start from the characterization, and work your way up to world-building, styles, tropes etc…...
Let's see where this conversation goes.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=42229&p=3386905&viewfull=1#post3386905
Here is a link for an FT discussion that i think summarizes my points perfectly.
Here's hoping that you don't come up with the most lamest internet-troll argument, and waste my time.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---So, judging solely from chapter 1, what exactly is it that not only makes the characters bland, but also absolutely destroys any possible future potential?
What was its potential?
I am sorry, but you can't just say "potential", and just leave it vague, and try to argue that FT had an absolutely mind-blowing opening when it really didn't. It was standard. Executed in the most sub-par way.
You guys seem to be confusing your enjoyment of the series for its actual objective quality.
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What exactly makes it executed in the most sub par way?
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What doesn't make it sub-par?
Neither the characters nor their designs nor their dialogues, nor their "reaction" faces, nor the setting, nor the panels, nor the art-direction etc… is anything worth talking about. Without even talking about the text/dialogues/plot, it fails to impress in its visual direction, and how lackluster it is in terms of techniques. Go read the first chapter, and simply focus on the visuals, instead of the text, and tell me how much of your "interest" came from it's visual-approach, and how much of it came from the dialogues themselves.
I read the first chapter when my standards, and grasp on varies elements, was extremely low, and even then, the series failed to make any real impact. It doesn't have any emotional-gut-punching opening like One Piece. Doesn't have the underdog opening of Naruto. Doesn't have the badass opening of Bleach.
The first chapter simply exists. It doesn't establish the characters. The world. The fantasy-location. The plot. The intrigue. Or anything that would make for an "hooking" opening.
And oh yes, before you come out with another tired argument; pretty visuals doesn't equal to visuals that carry meaning, and impact. I know that Monkey King in the link I provided already touched upon how FT visuals lack the believability/weight of its environments, and characters, but it also lacks any real distinction between its (shitty) cast of characters. Everyone looks very similar to each other. They have no real visual-identity to speak of especially the panels where the characters cheap reaction/comedy is pretty much the same which again shows how Mashima doesn't really have a grasp on his own characters.
Oda juggles thousand of characters, and yet he still manages to give most of them their own personality, and character-distinction espeically in visual department. Mashima fails to do that for its MAIN CAST let alone its side-cast.
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So you are saying the first chapter made perfectly clear that there was absolutely no potential for possible improvent by Mashima in any of these categories?
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What doesn't make it sub-par?
Neither the characters nor their designs nor their dialogues, nor their "reaction" faces, nor the setting, nor the panels, nor the art-direction etc… is anything worth talking about. Without even talking about the text/dialogues/plot, it fails to impress in its visual direction, and how lackluster it is in terms of techniques. Go read the first chapter, and simply focus on the visuals, instead of the text, and tell me how much of your "interest" came from it's visual-approach, and how much of it came from the dialogues themselves.
I read the first chapter when my standards, and grasp on varies elements, was extremely low, and even then, the series failed to make any real impact. It doesn't have any emotional-gut-punching opening like One Piece. Doesn't have the underdog opening of Naruto. Doesn't have the badass opening of Bleach.
The first chapter simply exists. It doesn't establish the characters. The world. The fantasy-location. The plot. The intrigue. Or anything that would make for an "hooking" opening.
And oh yes, before you come out with another tired argument; pretty visuals doesn't equal to visuals that carry meaning, and impact. I know that Monkey King in the link I provided already touched upon how FT visuals lack the believability/weight of its environments, and characters, but it also lacks any real distinction between its (shitty) cast of characters. Everyone looks very similar to each other. They have no real visual-identity to speak of especially the panels where the characters cheap reaction/comedy is pretty much the same which again shows how Mashima doesn't really have a grasp on his own characters.
Oda juggles thousand of characters, and yet he still manages to give most of them their own personality, and character-distinction espeically in visual department. Mashima fails to do that for its MAIN CAST let alone its side-cast.
You're comparing Fairy Tail to One Piece, a once-in-a-century manga. That's just a little unfair.
Fairy Tail is by no means a stellar manga, but the first part had promise. In the first chapters it established a world where different systems of magic are used, the existence of dragons, a magic council ruling the world and finally the guilds and their quest system. The backgrounds and designs were memorable enough, same goes for the characters who all had simple but unique designs. It might not have the most amazing landscapes, but seeing how the story's biggest drawing point was the interactions between characters it wasn't of the biggest importance.
The first problem was the lack of an overarching plot, and as the series progressed Mashima neglected further building the world and characters, instead creating a status quo he never dared to break. Eventually it turned into the boring, repetitive mess it ended as.
It might not have started out as a smash hit, and it never came close to series like Bleach and Naruto in their golden age, but it was interesting enough, especially when you just wanted something lighthearted to read about. And it had a lot of promise to expand and become better. To call it a complete failure is setting stupidly high standards.
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So you are saying the first chapter made perfectly clear that there was absolutely no potential for possible improvent by Mashima in any of these categories?
The first chapter was fine. I think @HeartofDarkness is beingneedlessly too harsh - and I say that as someone felt the show was bad earlier than most.
The series definitely had some potential. The setting was a bit unique - it was magic-focused, but did not have a medieval setting. It was hybrid between a modern day setting and classical one, and was bright. The different races of animals and humans, Natsu's first stated goal of finding his dad, etc. set up for a variety of cool plot points that could be explored.
The earliest arcs (up to Deliora) were not bad - they weren't good either, but nothing about them were bad. They were similar to the first 12 episodes of One Piece in that they weren't particularly great, but didn't do anything bad either. As I said, I think the earliest you can say the series became "shit" was Phantom Lord. That's when the real serious flaws (e.g. unearned emotional moments, lack of worldbuilding/context,
, lack of series direction) first hit.But the first 20 episodes/45 chapters were not shit. Just average.
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So you are saying the first chapter made perfectly clear that there was absolutely no potential for possible improvent by Mashima in any of these categories?
16 characters of Yep.
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I don't know. A more competent writer could still make gold out of that.
Only thing I would change is not make Lucy/Aquarius a joke. I mean seriously, those spirits were more gag than being reliable summons.
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16 characters of Yep.
Nah. The first few chapters didn't do anything wrong.
The first chapter of One Piece wasn't particular great (at least imo) but it ended being a great series.
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Nah. The first few chapters didn't do anything wrong.
The first chapter of One Piece wasn't particular great (at least imo) but it ended being a great series.
Maybe for you.
Otherwise the series beginning was in-your-incompetent.
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@Zar:
You're comparing Fairy Tail to One Piece, a once-in-a-century manga. That's just a little unfair.
The first problem was the lack of an overarching plot, and as the series progressed Mashima neglected further building the world and characters, instead creating a status quo he never dared to break. Eventually it turned into the boring, repetitive mess it ended as.
It might not have started out as a smash hit, and it never came close to series like Bleach and Naruto in their golden age, but it was interesting enough, especially when you just wanted something lighthearted to read about. And it had a lot of promise to expand and become better. To call it a complete failure is setting stupidly high standards.
I wasn't comparing. Just giving you an example.
the first part had promise. The backgrounds and designs were memorable enough, same goes for the characters who all had simple but unique designs. It might not have the most amazing landscapes, but seeing how the story's biggest drawing point was the interactions between characters it wasn't of the biggest importance.
No, it really didn't.
It's some myth that people use in order to make it seem like FT did something right when it was trashy in all aspects right from the get-go.
There is a reason why multiple people in this thread haven't even touched upon the execution of the most basic elements, despite constantly going back to this very idea of FT having a "good" start.
In the first chapters it established a world where different systems of magic are used, the existence of dragons, a magic council ruling the world and finally the guilds and their quest system.
Random exposition doesn't equal to world-building.
The backgrounds and designs were memorable enough,
Maybe if you just came back from watching The Room in 320p.
Otherwise no.
same goes for the characters who all had simple but unique designs
I am sorry, but what? Every character design looked like a clone, and more importantly felt extremely flat, and bland.
seeing how the story's biggest drawing point was the interactions between characters it wasn't of the biggest importance.
Ah yes, seeing the caricatures being caricatures reacting in a caricature-manner, and having the same comedy-expressions, and interacting with each other in the most cliched, and forced manner…....
The first problem was the lack of an overarching plot, and as the series progressed Mashima neglected further building the world and characters, instead creating a status quo he never dared to break. Eventually it turned into the boring, repetitive mess it ended as.
These problems existed from the beginning. Most people just didn't notice.
It might not have started out as a smash
It didn't need to be.
It failed at being a sequential story with drawings, something that even Pokemon nails better than FT.
it never came close to series like Bleach and Naruto in their golden age
That's because earlier parts of both Naruto, and Bleach were really good with tons, and tons of moments that connected with the audience.
FT never had that. People look back on Naruto, and Bleach because of the fact that many readers were interested/emotionally hooked on the series, and wanted to see where it goes.
It doesn't happen with FT.
it was interesting enough, especially when you just wanted something lighthearted to read about.
Ah so basically it was interesting enough when you weren't using your brain, and consistently ignoring the series flaws…..
Nice way to pretty much kill your own entire argument.
And it had a lot of promise to expand and become better.
It had as much promise as the first 10 mins of The Room.
To call it a complete failure is setting stupidly high standards.
More like you are setting your standards extremely low.
This has been said plenty of times, and i'll say it again; FT doesn't need to be anything special. It fails at the most basic fundamental stuff. You are just letting it slide with some crappy excuses, while completely ignoring the actual points.
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Let's just hope that this Mangaka will not create another abomination that could even exceed Fairy Fail in retardness or copying shamelessly series with no own innovations (cough One Piece cough).
I can describe myself lucky enough not ever read this series, I only watched the rantings of youtubers or Forum posters to know what happened in those chapters.This clearly shows that this series had nothing to keep me interested and unlike one piece, Toriko, Bleach and Naruto, it never had anything epic but rather so cheesy that you would think that is fucking Tellytubies…
Hence even new series like Promised Neverland and Boku no Hero could impress me especially the first one, in few chapters and established themselves into the weekly joy of Manga readers.
Something Fairy Tail only reached by obsessive Fanboys and Fan girls that cried over there ships. -
The salty-tears over the shipping is fucking hilarious.
The only thing that is more incompetent than the series is its fanbase.
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Let's let Fairy tail die dudes.
You can agree it was shitty?
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I wasn't comparing. Just giving you an example.
_"_I read the first chapter when my standards, and grasp on varies elements, was extremely low, and even then, the series failed to make any real impact. It doesn't have any emotional-gut-punching opening like One Piece. Doesn't have the underdog opening of Naruto. Doesn't have the badass opening of Bleach "
"Oda juggles thousand of characters, and yet he still manages to give most of them their own personality, and character-distinction espeically in visual department. Mashima fails to do that for its MAIN CAST let alone its side-cast."
Then what is this? By giving an example you are comparing it to another series.
No, it really didn't.
It's some myth that people use in order to make it seem like FT did something right when it was trashy in all aspects right from the get-go.
There is a reason why multiple people in this thread haven't even touched upon the execution of the most basic elements, despite constantly going back to this very idea of FT having a "good" start.
Then tell me, what are those basic elements? Exactly how did it fail in it's execution? Did Mashima fail to set up a proper vector for the reader to follow? Did he place the elements wrong, ignore the hierarchy of importance, or did he fail at the level of the multi-frame, did he misuse the gutters? Or do you mean in terms of narrative?
Random exposition doesn't equal to world-building.
Erm… setting up the magic council, guilds and quests IS world building, not random exposition.
Maybe if you just came back from watching The Room in 320p.
Otherwise no.
Do you know what a pain it is to make backgrounds? For the most part Mashima did alright, it's no stellar job but it was enough to show us where the character were. And places like the guild or council tower were fairly memorable.
I am sorry, but what? Every character design looked like a clone, and more importantly felt extremely flat, and bland.
I was a bit unclear about that one, sorry. What I mean is that every character, at least in the early series, was different enough that we could tell them apart. If you want to see true same-face syndrome in action, read Vampire Knight. Or look at Oda's women.
Ah yes, seeing the caricatures being caricatures reacting in a caricature-manner, and having the same comedy-expressions, and interacting with each other in the most cliched, and forced manner…....
Caricatures of what? What kind of reactions? And if you're thinking of shonen tropes, it's to be expected of shonen. Nearing the end Mashima started overusing tropes without putting in the effort to make it work, but in the beginning they were varied enough.
These problems existed from the beginning. Most people just didn't notice.
Or you're just overly negative. Different strokes for different people.
It didn't need to be.
It failed at being a sequential story with drawings, something that even Pokemon nails better than FT.
Are you referring to the games, manga or animation? And no, it did not fail at that stage. The story was told in an understandable manner and I was rarely confused by the story Mashima told, neither through visual or narrative means. The story wasn't good, but he told it in a fairly clear manner. If a comic suceeds at that, it has succeeded at being sequential art.
That's because earlier parts of both Naruto, and Bleach were really good with tons, and tons of moments that connected with the audience.
FT never had that. People look back on Naruto, and Bleach because of the fact that many readers were interested/emotionally hooked on the series, and wanted to see where it goes.
It doesn't happen with FT.
I'm still perfectly willing to re-read the first chapters.
Ah so basically it was interesting enough when you weren't using your brain, and consistently ignoring the series flaws…..
Nice way to pretty much kill your own entire argument.
I've hardly ignored the series flaws, if any of my previous comments in this thread wasn't proof enough. "Lighthearted" doesn't mean it's bad or can't evoke emotions, just that it won't take you on dramatic and dark journeys, involve politics and that stuff. I count most of Star Trek: Next Generation into that category, doesn't make it bad.
It had as much promise as the first 10 mins of The Room.
And I'll disagree with that.
]More like you are setting your standards extremely low.
This has been said plenty of times, and i'll say it again; FT doesn't need to be anything special. It fails at the most basic fundamental stuff. You are just letting it slide with some crappy excuses, while completely ignoring the actual points.
And you're ignoring our points and being overly negative.
What I don't understand is, if you noticed the series was going to be shit from the first chapter then why did you continue to read it?
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The salty-tears over the shipping is fucking hilarious.
Seems we agree on something.
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The salty-tears over the shipping is fucking hilarious.
Care to share? I've been trying to look at some of those.
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Maybe for you.
Otherwise the series beginning was in-your-incompetent.
lol are you really calling me incompetent? We basically agree that the show sucks, yet you're calling me incompetent because we disagree on whether the series was ever not shitty at one point in the very beginning? I actually don't get it.
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Care to share? I've been trying to look at some of those.
People were upset Natsu didnt turn into goku and marry her. They wanted that "NaLu" kiss and Mashima to his credit kept it open ended enough for shippers without it coming out of nowhere.
Also that jerza was left on more of an open end. -
I did follow fairy tail from start to finish even before an anime was announced. I was there during the big 3's(one piece, naruto, bleach) reign and I was still there until last week when it all ended
For me I cannot say Fairy Tail is a complete failure but clearly with it's market it is a successful manga
It has great potential but really missed it's mark. The main problem with fairy tail is it's deus ex machina nakama powers, over fan service and a lot of underdeveloped characters. The best arc for me was the tournament arc overall that part has great story buildup and a great climax(before the dragon's arrive) after that arc it was complete utter mess -
I did follow fairy tail from start to finish even before an anime was announced. I was there during the big 3's(one piece, naruto, bleach) reign and I was still there until last week when it all ended
For me I cannot say Fairy Tail is a complete failure but clearly with it's market it is a successful manga
It has great potential but really missed it's mark. The main problem with fairy tail is it's deus ex machina nakama powers, over fan service and a lot of underdeveloped characters. The best arc for me was the tournament arc overall that part has great story buildup and a great climax(before the dragon's arrive) after that arc it was complete utter messHmmmm interesting most people dont like GMG for some reason and they prefer the 2nd half
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@Long:
Hmmmm interesting most people dont like GMG for some reason and they prefer the 2nd half
the GMG is the only arc in the series that makes the FT a complete underdog that somehow manage to progress without any nakama bullsh*t for me
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I just realized Levy is having the child of the man that stapled her unconscious in a tree.
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So the ending is like the ending of most of the arcs - status quo. The more things progress the more they stay the same.
At least it's wrapped up, with no skipped parts and unfinished scenes like in Bleach.
And just to add some salt, at least Mashima allowed women to have big fights.
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And just to add some salt, at least Mashima allowed women to have big fights.
One of the few positive things about it.
Then the titties came…oh did the titties come.
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There is no good without the bad with Mashima.
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So the ending is like the ending of most of the arcs - status quo. The more things progress the more they stay the same.
At least it's wrapped up, with no skipped parts and unfinished scenes like in Bleach.
And just to add some salt, at least Mashima allowed women to have big fights.
I was gonna suggest a trade-off of more fanservice with more fights wpuld be fine and then I thought Well we already know how much fanservice toei adds, god imagine if they animated fairy tail or even a more risque one piece.
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All I can say is that Fairy Tail made me REALLY fucking appreciate just how good the good stuff in Naruto actually is.
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Iam rid of a bad habit, yippee!
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the GMG is the only arc in the series that makes the FT a complete underdog that somehow manage to progress without any nakama bullsh*t for me
That Sting vs. Fairy Tail scene that won them the tournament was nothing but nakama bullshit though.
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lol are you really calling me incompetent? We basically agree that the show sucks, yet you're calling me incompetent because we disagree on whether the series was ever not shitty at one point in the very beginning? I actually don't get it.
I love how you highlight a part that literally starts off with "otherwise the series beginning", and somehow take that as me insulting you.
Ah the irony.
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@Zar:
Then what is this? By giving an example you are comparing it to another series.
I don't think so? I mean I was using them as an example of the things their opening nailed compare to the lackluster opening of FT.
Either way which ever you want to put it; it still doesn't change the fact that FT's opening was neither emotional, hooking, intriguing, or anything that really set it apart.
Then tell me, what are those basic elements? Exactly how did it fail in it's execution? Did Mashima fail to set up a proper vector for the reader to follow? Did he place the elements wrong, ignore the hierarchy of importance, or did he fail at the level of the multi-frame, did he misuse the gutters? Or do you mean in terms of narrative?
I am talking from pretty much all angles. From the way the art is drawn, to the actual-use of the art in terms of what it really communicates, to the panel layout/flow to how generic, and standard the designs are, to how forgettable the actual dialogues are, to how lackluster the "fantasy" setting is, to how the tone constantly goes back, and forth between comedy, and serious (one moment even has an implication of RAPE/kidnapping of girls that are lured in, yet seconds later, the series goes back to comedy then serious again), and how NOTHING is given proper time to be developed, or have any real impact. This is the perfect example of an power-point presentation rather than an opening to a long-running fantasy series.
There is no real flow. Things…..are just happening, and being thrown at the screen. Who the fuck is Natsu? Who the fuck is Happy? Who the fuck is Lucy? Who the fuck is Fairy tail? Why the fuck should the readers care? Nobody knows because the opening sure as hell doesn't even leave the room for events to be digested, and understood by the readers. And the biggest thing is that it still fails to say something substantial about the characters/plot/setting.
You can literally ignore that chapter, and not lose anything of substance (not that this series has any to begin with).
Erm… setting up the magic council, guilds and quests IS world building, not random exposition.
I'm not talking about what it says. Rather HOW its saying it.
This stuff might be important, but it's thrown at you in the most laziest form. At this point, readers have literal zero fucks to give/care about the world-building.
Good world-building is about the flow, and how the readers slowly by slowly learn more about the world. FT on the other hand just tries to throw exposition, and fails.
Or you're just overly negative. Different strokes for different people.
Whether you enjoy it, or like it is your thing.
But the actual problems in writing that fails to establish the characters beyond their caricatures stereotypes, paper-thin story that never really connects to anything, and only exists as a lazy way of giving the main character motivation to do SOMETHING rather than sitting his on ass, and beating up shitty villains, while wanking off to how "great" Fairy tail guild is, are undeniable.
There is "no" different strokes for different folks here. You have an objectively shitty manga here.
Are you referring to the games, manga or animation? And no, it did not fail at that stage. The story was told in an understandable manner and I was rarely confused by the story Mashima told, neither through visual or narrative means. The story wasn't good, but he told it in a fairly clear manner. If a comic suceeds at that, it has succeeded at being sequential art.
Maybe if you were looking at in wikia-like-form.
Understanding the story is not the problem here. It's the techniques, and the craft that are being used to tell that said story.
I'm still perfectly willing to re-read the first chapters.
So? People constantly go back, and watch The Room for its unintentional comedic value, not for its serious-artistic-quality.
I've hardly ignored the series flaws, if any of my previous comments in this thread wasn't proof enough. "Lighthearted" doesn't mean it's bad or can't evoke emotions, just that it won't take you on dramatic and dark journeys, involve politics and that stuff. I count most of Star Trek: Next Generation into that category, doesn't make it bad.
Except Fairytail doesn't really nail any of those elements.
Light-hearted series can be crafted well, and have their own merits/area of expertise.
hat I don't understand is, if you noticed the series was going to be shit from the first chapter then why did you continue to read it?
Why does it really matter?
But to answer; I like experiencing both the shit, and great works to see where they fail/succeed. I don't read/watch/play stuff to kill time. It's my hobby.
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I don't think so? I mean I was using them as an example of the things their opening nailed compare to the lackluster opening of FT.
Either way which ever you want to put it; it still doesn't change the fact that FT's opening was neither emotional, hooking, intriguing, or anything that really set it apart.
I really liked how FT's opening wasn't overly dramatic, but just Lucy trying to find the guild. And that little bit at the end where Natsu takes Lucy's hand was a sweet moment. It set the perfect mood for the rest of the series - a happy adventure where we get to know the characters as time goes on. It's one of my favorite set-ups - and subsequently one of my biggest disappointments was when Mashima abandoned that by trying to create a dramatic story where somehow Fairy Tail decided the fate of the continent.
But I think I'm starting to understand where you're coming from. There's nothing that hints at a deeper layer or an overarching story, even as the series goes on. Unless you happen to be interested in the "day-today life of wizards" or the setting, there's nothing of value.
I am talking from pretty much all angles. From the way the art is drawn, to the actual-use of the art in terms of what it really communicates, to the panel layout/flow to how generic, and standard the designs are, to how forgettable the actual dialogues are, to how lackluster the "fantasy" setting is, to how the tone constantly goes back, and forth between comedy, and serious (one moment even has an implication of RAPE/kidnapping of girls that are lured in, yet seconds later, the series goes back to comedy then serious again), and how NOTHING is given proper time to be developed, or have any real impact. This is the perfect example of an power-point presentation rather than an opening to a long-running fantasy series.
There is no real flow. Things…..are just happening, and being thrown at the screen. Who the fuck is Natsu? Who the fuck is Happy? Who the fuck is Lucy? Who the fuck is Fairy tail? Why the fuck should the readers care? Nobody knows because the opening sure as hell doesn't even leave the room for events to be digested, and understood by the readers. And the biggest thing is that it still fails to say something substantial about the characters/plot/setting.
I still think the art, visual flow and some of the story flow was alright, and I like the technique of not introducing everything right away (though Mashima did a questionable job at that). But I do agree about the weird jumps in mood and how things were never given time to develop. Kage's comment up above is a good example. Or how Lisanna turned out to be alive (in the stupidest way possible) undoing the genuine character development Natsu, Elfman and Mirajane had. Mashime can't balance serious and happy moments. Or all the inappropriate fan-service inserts.
You can literally ignore that chapter, and not lose anything of substance (not that this series has any to begin with).
You'd lose out on some parts, but not a whole lot, so agreed on that one.
I'm not talking about what it says. Rather HOW its saying it.
This stuff might be important, but it's thrown at you in the most laziest form. At this point, readers have literal zero fucks to give/care about the world-building.
Good world-building is about the flow, and how the readers slowly by slowly learn more about the world. FT on the other hand just tries to throw exposition, and fails.
…Whether you enjoy it, or like it is your thing.
But the actual problems in writing that fails to establish the characters beyond their caricatures stereotypes, paper-thin story that never really connects to anything, and only exists as a lazy way of giving the main character motivation to do SOMETHING rather than sitting his on ass, and beating up shitty villains, while wanking off to how "great" Fairy tail guild is, are undeniable.
There is "no" different strokes for different folks here. You have an objectively shitty manga here.
Maybe if you were looking at in wikia-like-form.
Understanding the story is not the problem here. It's the techniques, and the craft that are being used to tell that said story.
And I still think for the first few volumes, this wasn't the case. It wasn't until Mashima took his story too seriously and started repeating everything that it became a huge problem. And the techniques are more than good enough for a comic.
So? People constantly go back, and watch The Room for its unintentional comedic value, not for its serious-artistic-quality.
The difference is that I'm willing to enjoy the first volumes, not just laugh at it.
Except Fairytail doesn't really nail any of those elements.
Light-hearted series can be crafted well, and have their own merits/area of expertise.
Got them right in the beginning, but then became a mess, so half-agreed at that.
Why does it really matter?
But to answer; I like experiencing both the shit, and great works to see where they fail/succeed. I don't read/watch/play stuff to kill time. It's my hobby.
That makes sense. It's a good way to improve your own craft (and one of my own reasons for continuing to follow FT/Bleach/Naruto once they turned into shit).
And it's hilarious. Where else could you experience masterpieces like major villains losing because they sneezed or Makarov coming back to life an absurd amount of times.
I guess we're better off agreeing to disagree, or this will go on forever. But it was interesting reading your perspective.
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I love how you highlight a part that literally starts off with "otherwise the series beginning", and somehow take that as me insulting you.
Ah the irony.
But you quite literally said I was incompetent.
"Maybe for you.
Otherwise the series beginning was in-your-incompetent."
Just say what you mean more clearly I guess? What you said barely even looks like a sentence lol
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I guess the insult was towards… an entity which mostly deserves any insult, anyway.
But one more question: Lets say I'm Mashima and right now I finished that first chapter. Besides, I'm having everything planned out like the overall main story, the overall theme and everything else. It may not be a masterpiece-plan, but it's at least a good, solid plan. Now I see your criticisms and I actually agree with you and therefore will do begin working at making a better final product, starting with a better possible second chapter. So going on from this exact assumption:
Would you really say, despite me willing to improve, it's absolutely impossible to create any second chapter, any at all, (and therefore any following chapters) that'll can undo the mistakes from the first chapter?
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I guess the insult was towards… an entity which mostly deserves any insult, anyway.
But one more question: Lets say I'm Mashima and right now I finished that first chapter. Besides, I'm having everything planned out like the overall main story, the overall theme and everything else. It may not be a masterpiece-plan, but it's at least a good, solid plan. Now I see your criticisms and I actually agree with you and therefore will do begin working at making a better final product, starting with a better possible second chapter. So going on from this exact assumption:
Would you really say, despite me willing to improve, it's absolutely impossible to create any second chapter, any at all, (and therefore any following chapters) that'll can undo the mistakes from the first chapter?
No.
The first chapter is, well, the first chapter. There is no way that the opening chapter can ever determine the quality of the entire work especially long-running series where it takes time for the writers to find the footing, and get conformable.
My arguments against Fairytail take the series trajectory in terms of quality over the years, into the account, as well as the writer's lack of drive, or vision, to talk about the overall quality, and why the series always had those problems in the beginning, and just became more noticeable as the series progressed.
If i was writing all of this by simply reading the first chapter, then my arguments simply wouldn't hold any water. Opening chapters exist to interest potential readers into reading the series, and finding out what happens. There is just no way to get a grasp on the entire series in that small amount of time.
I'll use MHA manga as an example of this; When i picked up the series, and read through the first chapter, it made me interested in it because of its underdog character story, and how impactful the last few panels of the chapter were. It was a series that announced itself to be a interesting with an relatedable main protag. Fast forward to present, and the series is a very predictable shonen that hits pretty much every modern shonen trope ever. It was a series that started off with a high-note, and devolved into a mindless shonen action series.
Now to look at the other side of that; Berserk, one of my favorite manga of all time, started off as a fairly mediocre dark fantasy series, and was like that for the first three volumes. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't that good either, and I was about to drop the series, but once the Golden Age arc hit, the series quickly became one of the best character-study/journey of all time that didn't pull any punches when it came to the characters, and their relationships.
There are plenty of series whose first chapter didn't hook me, or make any real impact, yet lot of them ended up being some of my favorite series of all time.
With FT, the opening showcases some of the most basic key aspects that the manga didn't properly grasp, and get worst as the series progresses.
It would be one thing if Mashima failed in the first chapter, but regained his footing, and improved on the aspects. It's another when the opening chapter pretty much foreshadows the level of amateur mistakes that Mashima will continue to make.
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It would be one thing if Mashima failed in the first chapter, but regained his footing, and improved on the aspects. It's another when the opening chapter pretty much foreshadows the level of amateur mistakes that Mashima will continue to make.
If that were the case, Fairy Tail would have just been a very dull and boring show.
It became literally one of the worst written stories ever - at least that I've read. So nah, the first chapter 1's quality was nowhere near as putrid as the rest of it.