Chapter 788: "My Fight"

[LuffydaPirateKing]

Birdcage only seems hax bc people are only trying to push it. If zoro tried cutting it(why tf isn't he? Isn't that why he needed the samurais?) if people tried pushing pica's giant rock form it would seem hax too, but oh wait no luffy and zoro could beat him no prob. Since Fuji is a gambler, I'm willing to BET(hahaha) that he could stop it if he tried. Again, him using his df on a meteor is not him trying. That's like luffy g2 punching someone, it not working and then saying he can't beat that person bc a g2 punch didn't work. And Mingo couldn't use the cage to sve himself from kaido bc he knows kaido will rip it to shreds like any of the yonkos would be able too. Think about it. Minho could just go wherever, Summon the BC, have it expand instead of shrink, and then take over any place he wanted. And yes the clone that summoned the BC was at the center of it.

If like to reiterate, people are not trying their best to stop the BC. The only thing this shows us is that barto's barriers can't stop it

[Icecrown]

@andy:

If we go by what viola says the center of the cage ends up being where don is .

I don't remember that, but when luffy punched him and made him fly 3km away the cage did not move

Considering how many people were standing near the perimeter of the cage, if that thing traveled the same distance and at the same speed as a flying Dofla, that would have pushed the cage against thousands of people insta killing all of them

[Bladia]

It would be awesome if Burgess eats Viola's fruit. Not only it would be unexpected, but it would be like his own makeshift Kenboshoku Haki :O (Like blackbeard's Yami Yami no Mi pretty much acting like CoA, hitting real bodies under fruits.) Therefore Sanji will have yet another opponent in which he is envious of (remember Absalom and his Suke Suke no Mi) in addition to as everyone said, his resentment of Burgess killing Viola.

[King Cannon]

@Icecrown:

I don't remember that, but when luffy punched him and made him fly 3km away the cage did not move

Considering how many people were standing near the perimeter of the cage, if that thing traveled the same distance and at the same speed as a flying Dofla, that would have pushed the cage against thousands of people insta killing all of them

The cage itself doesn't shift, only the center point. It was shown in a diagram.

[skoopa]

maybe if they cut it , those strings that are stretched to the max will just snap ( like a guitar string ) and slaughter random citizen if not the attacker , maybe strings regenerate if cutted ( imagine zoro cutting it getting outside and it closes on him would have been a comic way to explain why cutting it is out of the question ), but oda didn't show any of this , he just rely on our imagination to fill the holes .

fuji is an admiral i don't think he don't have a good mastery of his fruit , he could push with his fruit power instead of that haki bullsh!t .

really sometimes i have doubts if its really oda still drawing or is it one of his assistants xD

[andy]

@Icecrown:

I don't remember that, but when luffy punched him and made him fly 3km away the cage did not move

Considering how many people were standing near the perimeter of the cage, if that thing traveled the same distance and at the same speed as a flying Dofla, that would have pushed the cage against thousands of people insta killing all of them

The top of the cage not the cage it's self.

[Hajro]

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

http://adwhois.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Michael-scott-no-god-no1.gif

I will never forgive Oda if he does this. Zoro x Robin is my second choice.

Wut, its FrankyxRobin or JinbeixRobin .

[LuffydaPirateKing]

@Whackadoodle:

Oh, he understands the gravity of the situation, he just doesn't see it as a threat.

Because he was dispatched to Dressrosa with orders to specifically do that, which means they presumably got approval from the WG in advance, whereas he has no such permission regarding Doflamingo?

If you go back and re-read the scenes with Fujitora, it's pretty evident that Fujitora wants some kind of major incident involving Doflamingo (presumably, to use as leverage to bring down the shichibukai system), and doesn't want the Marines to be credited with the save. At the same time, he wants to minimize civilian casualties, so, while he won't take proactive steps to save everyone, he will take lesser steps to reduce casualties - like helping others stop the cage from closing.

That does make a little sense, but wouldn't the whole sugar thing be enough? He had enslaved govt officials and marines. Sugar was a known member of his family so it was obvious she was acting on his orders

[TheGreatestSwordsman]

@King:

Well, the fact that the Birdcage is always closing with Doula at the center should be indirect confirmation. It pretty much has a mechanic that requires Doula to be inside in order to work.

Is it closing with him at the center, I have seen no confirmation of this. It could be the center of where it originally opened.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Hajro:

Wut, its FrankyxRobin or JinbeixRobin .

You want Robin to turn into Zoro, sleeping all time due to boredom?

[King Cannon]

@LuffydaPirateKing:

Birdcage only seems hax bc people are only trying to push it. If zoro tried cutting it(why tf isn't he? Isn't that why he needed the samurais?)

He slammed Hakified swords on the cage, and it did nothing to the strings.

Those strings survived elephants, a meteor shower and a 10.000 ton man (the weight of a cruiser). Dunno how people still can't believe it's indestructible.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Is it closing with him at the center, I have seen no confirmation of this. It could be the center of where it originally opened.

http://bato.to/read/_/319490/one-piece_ch784_by_powermanga/4
Also, in the newest chapter, the palace is not at the center of the Birdcage.

[andy]

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Is it closing with him at the center, I have seen no confirmation of this. It could be the center of where it originally opened.

beaten by king cannon

[LuffydaPirateKing]

@King:

He slammed Hakified swords on the cage, and it did nothing to the strings.

Those strings survived elephants, a meteor shower and a 10.000 ton man. Dunno how people still can't believe it's indestructible.

It survived an elephant?!?! No fcking way sorry you're right it's clearly indestructible bc an elephant, zoro and a 10 ton man pushing the cage didn't do anything. Zoro pushing with swords and zoro using an actual move are completely different. Unless you think he could've beat peka etc. by pushing them with his swords?

[skoopa]

@Whackadoodle:

Oh, he understands the gravity of the situation, he just doesn't see it as a threat.

with his fruit he can easily understand the "gravity" of the situation :-°

[King Cannon]

@LuffydaPirateKing:

It survived an elephant?!?! No fcking way sorry you're right it's clearly industry tingle bc an elephant, zoro and a 10 ton man pushing the cage didn't do anything. Zoro pushing with swords and zoro using an actual move are completely different. Unless you think he could've beat peka etc. by pushing them with his swords?

You clearly forgot the meteor shower on purpose.

And it was a 10.000 ton man. That's the weight of a war cruiser.

Pica himself was just stone. Zoro could cut those since the start of the series.

And look at the upper panel of this page. You think that was just pushing? If he's using all his strength + Haki on the cage and nothing happens to it, I don't see how an actual move would be of any help.

[LuffydaPirateKing]

@King:

You clearly forgot the meteor shower on purpose.

And it was a 10.000 ton man. That's the weight of a war cruiser.

And Pica himself was just stone. Zoro could cut those since the start of the series. Zoro himself destroyed some stone buildings by just pushing his sword against the strings.

Dude I listed the exact same things you did in your original post. You did not mention the meteors then so neither did I. In past posts I have discussed the meteor shower but since you haven't read those I guess(I don't blame you for not reading every post in these threads I don't ether) I will repeat myself. Fujis meteor shower is like a g2 punch or a goku kamehameha. It's a spammible move not an ultimate attack. It was his half ass way of trying to determine how strong the cage was. I think we can both agree he has stronger moves than those meteors which, btw, haven't hurt the person they were intended to once this whole arc.

[Bladia]

Looking at this passive birdcage, just makes me question, if the Birdcage is so freakishly powerful, why in the fck does Doflamingo sht his pants when threatened by Law with Kaido? If I was Doflamingo I would just spam that motherf*cker keeping opponents out and release it when it gets to close then repeat, ( its practically a counterattacking shield) because it looks like no one can do shit to it whether you are inside the cage or outside unless you are Doffy yourself…..

[andy]

People are really looking down on how sharp and strong the bird cage strings are.
In this chapter people that pushing the bird cage using a unbreakable barrier , haki cover swords and a indestructible factory .
That alone should tell you how crazy the strings are .

[King Cannon]

@LuffydaPirateKing:

Dude I listed the exact same things you did in your original post. You did not mention the meteors then so neither did I. In past posts I have discussed the meteor shower but since you haven't read those I guess(I don't blame you for not reading every post in these threads I don't ether) I will repeat myself. Fujis meteor shower is like a g2 punch or a goku kamehameha. It's a spammible move not an ultimate attack. It was his half ass way of trying to determine how strong the cage was. I think we can both agree he has stronger moves than those meteors which, btw, haven't hurt the person they were intended to once this whole arc.

I did mention the meteors.

And really, I don't know how a meteor shower is considered a half-ass attack. He used it against Warlord Law and Revolutionary Commander Sabo. Sure he has stronger attacks, but for some reason, people think the meteors are a basic attack. They're pretty much his signature at this point.

When dealing with mooks, he used the sinkhole instead.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Bladia:

Looking at this passive birdcage, just makes me question, if the Birdcage is so freakishly powerful, why in the fck does Doflamingo sht his pants when threatened by Law with Kaido? If I was Doflamingo I would just spam that motherf*cker keeping opponents out and release it when it gets to close then repeat, ( its practically a counterattacking shield) because it looks like no one can do shit to it whether you are inside the cage or outside unless you are Doffy yourself…..

Law can teleport out of the cage. The problem is that regular people can't do that.

We don't know what Kaido can do. He could end up being one of those mythical Logia-like Zoans such as Marco.

[RamistaR]

@Hajro:

Wut, its FrankyxRobin or JinbeixRobin .

Can't you feel the tension ?

[skoopa]

@King:

I did mention the meteors.

And really, I don't know how a meteor shower is considered a half-ass attack. He used it against Warlord Law and Revolutionary Commander Sabo. Sure he has stronger attacks, but for some reason, people think the meteors are a basic attack. They're pretty much his signature at this point.

When dealing with mooks, he used the sinkhole instead.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Law can teleport out of the cage. The problem is that regular people can't do that.

We don't know what Kaido can do. He could end up being one of those mythical Logia-like Zoans such as Marco.

Luffy used gomu gomu no pistol against "warlord" crocodile and against "admiral" ao kiji , by your logic gomu gomu no pistol is a strong move then …

[Ned_Gutters]

I don't want to be a downer, but this chapter, man…

There are a lot of obvious ways to be doing things better than how they are being done - for example, Zoro just trying to cut bird-cage, succeeding, but it doesn't matter cause it just regenerated instantaneously. Now, of course, Oda likes to do things that are unpredictable, but the problem with Zoro (and everyone) just pushing the birdcage is it isn't unpredictable qua creative; it is unpredictable qua unbelievable/inane/problematic. It is unbelievable that Zoro wouldn't even TRY to cut it after his "I can cut everything" speech. It is inane in that people who could do something about Doffy (even Zoro, though he doesn't get involved in Luffy's fights, does stand up when he is down, but there are countless others too) are choosing to push on the birdcage instead. It is problematic because it leads to power level discussions, which one piece is not supposed to be about.

How cool would it be if the problem wasn't just "Birdcage > Everyone on the island, including Fuji, Zoro, and other strong bros", but instead that the power itself functions in weird ways? How cool would it be if Zoro could cut it, but it regenerates instantly? If it couldn't cut or move barto's barrier, but instead it just wound itself around/over it? How could would it be if it was malleable and fuji's gravity just pulled it down a little? And how cool would it be if, all these things the birdcage does to work around its problem, all that effort expended to get around each characters unique ways of dealing with it, slowed the birdcage down? How could would it be if regenerating strings, moving around barriers, etc. slowed Doffy down?

More importantly: How One Piece would that be? How One Piece would it be for different characters to unite under a common goal, but in their own ways, instead of everybody - including Roronoa "Sliceman" Zoro - just pushing on strings together? How One Piece is the Zoro and everyone else just pushing on strings together? Not very, imo.

And now everything is a goddamn timer. Luffy needs 3 minutes, but Birdcage will take only 2, but Dandelion tears take 2.5 (or what the hell ever). Instead of weird creative limitations and powers, we're just getting time limit after time limit after time limit tempered with out of character inanity.

The last few chapters I have had mixed feelings about, but I think it was mostly just due to arc fatigue. Now, though, problems are really coming together, and I think I can honestly say that this is the first chapter of One Piece I have seriously disliked. I will keep reading, and I hope that it gets better, and I absolutely 100% think Oda can do that, but at the time time, post-time skip just isn't feeling right to me, and this chapter really made that feel worse.

[King Cannon]

@skoopa:

Luffy used gomu gomu no pistol against "warlord" crocodile and against "admiral" ao kiji , by your logic gomu gomu no pistol is a strong move then …

He also used his strongest moves against both (Gomu Gomu Storm at the time).

[andy]

@Ned_Gutters:

I don't want to be a downer, but this chapter, man…

There are a lot of obvious ways to be doing things better than how they are being done - for example, Zoro just trying to cut bird-cage, succeeding, but it doesn't matter cause it just regenerated instantaneously. Now, of course, Oda likes to do things that are unpredictable, but the problem with Zoro (and everyone) just pushing the birdcage is it isn't unpredictable qua creative; it is unpredictable qua unbelievable/inane/problematic. It is unbelievable that Zoro wouldn't even TRY to cut it after his "I can cut everything" speech. It is inane in that people who could do something about Doffy (even Zoro, though he doesn't get involved in Luffy's fights, does stand up when he is down, but there are countless others too) are choosing to push on the birdcage instead. It is problematic because it leads to power level discussions, which one piece is not supposed to be about.

How cool would it be if the problem wasn't just "Birdcage > Everyone on the island, including Fuji, Zoro, and other strong bros", but instead that the power itself functions in weird ways? How cool would it be if Zoro could cut it, but it regenerates instantly? If it couldn't cut or move barto's barrier, but instead it just wound itself around/over it? How could would it be if it was malleable and fuji's gravity just pulled it down a little? And how cool would it be if, all these things the birdcage does to work around its problem, all that effort expended to get around each characters unique ways of dealing with it, slowed the birdcage down? How could would it be if regenerating strings, moving around barriers, etc. slowed Doffy down?

More importantly: How One Piece would that be? How One Piece would it be for different characters to unite under a common goal, but in their own ways, instead of everybody - including Roronoa "Sliceman" Zoro - just pushing on strings together? How One Piece is the Zoro and everyone else just pushing on strings together? Not very, imo.

And now everything is a goddamn timer. Luffy needs 3 minutes, but Birdcage will take only 2, but Dandelion tears take 2.5 (or what the hell ever). Instead of weird creative limitations and powers, we're just getting time limit after time limit after time limit tempered with out of character inanity.

The last few chapters I have had mixed feelings about, but I think it was mostly just due to arc fatigue. Now, though, problems are really coming together, and I think I can honestly say that this is the first chapter of One Piece I have seriously disliked. I will keep reading, and I hope that it gets better, and I absolutely 100% think Oda can do that, but at the time time, post-time skip just isn't feeling right to me, and this chapter really made that feel worse.

There will always be power level talking in a shonen battle manga .
Even more so on a fourm where the hardcore fans are.

[RamistaR]

@King:

He also used his strongest moves against both (Gomu Gomu Storm at the time).

He used Storm against Moriah/Oars too. I hope he finishes Doffy with the providential Red Storm.

[Nycprodigy]

Where is Trebol?

[Whackadoodle]

@LuffydaPirateKing:

That does make a little sense, but wouldn't the whole sugar thing be enough? He had enslaved govt officials and marines. Sugar was a known member of his family so it was obvious she was acting on his orders

Here's the thing: it doesn't matter, because he simply doesn't have the authority to revoke the authority of a shichibukai on his own: he's a Marine admiral, and the Shichibukai are under the authority of the World Government - entirely outside his chain of command.

Now, he could exceed his technical authority and go after Doflamingo, and after the fact, it's likely his actions would be defended by the Marines and WG as justified: he acted without authority because Doflamingo's actions prevented him from getting in touch with his superiors, and he had information which was unavailable to them.

But, of course, we know that he isn't going to do that, as he wants an incident, and doesn't want the Marines to get credit for fixing it.

@skoopa:

with his fruit he can easily understand the "gravity" of the situation :-°

Yes, that was the joke. :ninja:

And the other joke was that he doesn't see it as a threat.

[King Cannon]

@Ned_Gutters:

More importantly: How One Piece would that be? How One Piece would it be for different characters to unite under a common goal, but in their own ways, instead of everybody - including Roronoa "Sliceman" Zoro - just pushing on strings together? How One Piece is the Zoro and everyone else just pushing on strings together? Not very, imo.

Everybody needs to push it in order to do something, so there's not much of a choice. The point here is stalling the cage.

I honestly don't know where this Birdcage regeneration idea came from. Not to mention it would bring questions about why no one would try to escape before the strings regenerated after being cut.

It's still baffling that people can't accept indestructible strings, but can accept shadow necromancy, sand that causes drought/dehydration and explosive light.

[RamistaR]

This post is deleted!

[Bladia]

@King:

Everybody needs to push it in order to do something, so there's not much of a choice. The point here is stalling the cage.

I honestly don't know where this Birdcage regeneration idea came from.

It's still baffling that people can't accept indestructible strings, but can accept shadow necromancy, sand that causes drought/dehydration and explosive light.

But none of these attacks are as overpowered as this cage is lol. You would think it would be enough that Doffy could completely stop and make an incredibly heavy diamond man 20 times his size with the strength to throw an iceberg and tank people of admiral level his bitch, but it couldn't stop there. And look at Moriah's power, sure the shadow zombie thing was farfetched, but you saw what happens to Moriah's zombies if even a little salt touches them.

Also these other attacks you list are instant and will dissipate over time, its not like Crocodile can keep dehydrating you if he has no contact with his right hand, and given some of the attacks seen this arc, Kizaru's explosive kicks aren't even impressive (or probably as effective thanks to hardening) to bring up anymore lol.

[King Cannon]

@Bladia:

But none of these attacks are as overpowered as this cage is lol. You would think it would be enough that Doffy could completely stop and make an incredibly heavy diamond man 20 times his size with the strength to throw an iceberg and tank people of admiral level his bitch, but it couldn't stop there. And look at Moriah's power, sure the shadow zombie thing was farfetched, but you saw what happens to Moriah's zombies if even a little salt touches them.

Also these other attacks you list are instant and will dissipate over time, its not like Crocodile can keep dehydrating you if he has no contact with his right hand, and given some of the attacks seen this arc, Kizaru's explosive kicks aren't even impressive (or probably as effective thanks to hardening) to bring up anymore lol.

But the cage isn't overpowered. Seastone can defend against it. Haki can defend against it. Bartolomeo's barriers can defend against it.

The problem is that regular people don't have access to those things. The cage is only truly dangerous because there's a lot of people in it.

[andy]

@Bladia:

But none of these attacks are as overpowered as this cage is lol. You would think it would be enough that Doffy could completely stop and make an incredibly heavy diamond man 20 times his size with the strength to throw an iceberg and tank people of admiral level his bitch, but it couldn't stop there. And look at Moriah's power, sure the shadow zombie thing was farfetched, but you saw what happens to Moriah's zombies if even a little salt touches them.

Also these other attacks you list are instant and will dissipate over time, its not like Crocodile can keep dehydrating you if he has no contact with his right hand, and given some of the attacks seen this arc, Kizaru's explosive kicks aren't even impressive (or probably as effective thanks to hardening) to bring up anymore lol.

Jozu is no where near 20 times the size of Don and croc don't even have touch you with his hand to dry you out.

[kcity]

@King:

But the cage isn't overpowered. Seastone can defend against it. Haki can defend against it. Bartolomeo's barriers can defend against it.

The problem is that regular people don't have access to those things. The cage is only truly dangerous because there's a lot of people in it.

They don't 'defend' against it, they just don't get cut by it, which is very different. If the birdcage isn't stopped to a standstill (because of a ton of powerful people) it doesn't give a fuck that you 'survive' against it while your haki/barrier lasts, it'll just move on like you aren't there.

[Icecrown]

@King:

http://bato.to/read/_/319490/one-piece_ch784_by_powermanga/4
Also, in the newest chapter, the palace is not at the center of the Birdcage.

that still doesn't mean that the center HAVE to be on doflamingo, maybe he can control where the center is and he's just moving it at will

the fact that he created the birdcage from the string clone and not from himself shouldn't prove that he can create it from any location ? so he could tecnically send the clone somewhere and turn him into the cage while staying outside of it

[HTC]

Isn't birdcage CoA haki-fied? I mean, the strings that compose it.

In order to overpower CoA's haki, one needs a stronger CoA's haki and, judging by everyone's inability to stop it, i'd say Mingo's CoA is stronger then even Fujitora's. Dunno about Sabo's since he didn't try to stop the cage, yet.

Personally, i think Oda's just trying to show a united Dressrosa trying to stop / slow down the cage: citizens, tournament warriors, pirates and marines alike.

Remember when Luffy broke through Marigold's CoA haki? Brute force was required for that. What if all the people trying to halt birdcage were to succeed that way? Individually, they haven't got the strength to pull it off but, combined … isn't that a form of brute strength? Whether or not it's sufficient remains to be seen.

[kcity]

@Icecrown:

that still doesn't mean that the center HAVE to be on doflamingo, maybe he can control where the center is and he's just moving it at will

the fact that he created the birdcage from the string clone and not from himself shouldn't prove that he can create it from any location ? so he could tecnically send the clone somewhere and turn him into the cage while staying outside of it

It doesn't even matter if Doffy would be the center, he could just hypothetically hide in the seastone factory and lock the doors and everyone would be cut/crushed when the timer or their haki runs out.

[andy]

@kcity:

It doesn't even matter if Doffy would be the center, he could just hypothetically hide in the seastone factory and lock the doors and everyone would be cut/crushed when the timer or their haki runs out.

Bart would survive , law could teleport him or his self out .

[King Cannon]

@kcity:

They don't 'defend' against it, they just don't get cut by it, which is very different. If the birdcage isn't stopped to a standstill (because of a ton of powerful people) it doesn't give a fuck that you 'survive' against it while your haki/barrier lasts, it'll just move on like you aren't there.

The strings stop when it reaches the center (or else Doula would get shredded as well. A sphere can't close entirely). If it's used against a single person, that person can just go to the center and the strings won't reach him/her.

That's why it's only truly dangerous against several people.

@Icecrown:

that still doesn't mean that the center HAVE to be on doflamingo, maybe he can control where the center is and he's just moving it at will

the fact that he created the birdcage from the string clone and not from himself shouldn't prove that he can create it from any location ? so he could tecnically send the clone somewhere and turn him into the cage while staying outside of it

He probably needs to be close to manipulate all the strings in the form of a cage.

[SmokerSan]

@Ned_Gutters:

I don't want to be a downer, but this chapter, man…

There are a lot of obvious ways to be doing things better than how they are being done - for example, Zoro just trying to cut bird-cage, succeeding, but it doesn't matter cause it just regenerated instantaneously. Now, of course, Oda likes to do things that are unpredictable, but the problem with Zoro (and everyone) just pushing the birdcage is it isn't unpredictable qua creative; it is unpredictable qua unbelievable/inane/problematic. It is unbelievable that Zoro wouldn't even TRY to cut it after his "I can cut everything" speech. It is inane in that people who could do something about Doffy (even Zoro, though he doesn't get involved in Luffy's fights, does stand up when he is down, but there are countless others too) are choosing to push on the birdcage instead. It is problematic because it leads to power level discussions, which one piece is not supposed to be about.

How cool would it be if the problem wasn't just "Birdcage > Everyone on the island, including Fuji, Zoro, and other strong bros", but instead that the power itself functions in weird ways? How cool would it be if Zoro could cut it, but it regenerates instantly? If it couldn't cut or move barto's barrier, but instead it just wound itself around/over it? How could would it be if it was malleable and fuji's gravity just pulled it down a little? And how cool would it be if, all these things the birdcage does to work around its problem, all that effort expended to get around each characters unique ways of dealing with it, slowed the birdcage down? How could would it be if regenerating strings, moving around barriers, etc. slowed Doffy down?

More importantly: How One Piece would that be? How One Piece would it be for different characters to unite under a common goal, but in their own ways, instead of everybody - including Roronoa "Sliceman" Zoro - just pushing on strings together? How One Piece is the Zoro and everyone else just pushing on strings together? Not very, imo.

And now everything is a goddamn timer. Luffy needs 3 minutes, but Birdcage will take only 2, but Dandelion tears take 2.5 (or what the hell ever). Instead of weird creative limitations and powers, we're just getting time limit after time limit after time limit tempered with out of character inanity.

The last few chapters I have had mixed feelings about, but I think it was mostly just due to arc fatigue. Now, though, problems are really coming together, and I think I can honestly say that this is the first chapter of One Piece I have seriously disliked. I will keep reading, and I hope that it gets better, and I absolutely 100% think Oda can do that, but at the time time, post-time skip just isn't feeling right to me, and this chapter really made that feel worse.

My English is no good. I cannot make such great posts like yours, but this is absolutely what I think. It is the same case for me. I have never complained about it even though sometimes anyone can have mixed feelings about chapters. This is also for me the first chapter that totally hate. I do understand the thing Oda is trying to pull, we are not idiots, people are doing their best to help and so on, but this stands for normal people, not people like: Fujitora, Zoro.

[King Cannon]

@SmokerSan:

My English is no good. I cannot make such great posts like yours, but this is absolutely what I think. It is the same case for me. I have never complained about it even though sometimes anyone can have mixed feelings about chapters. This is also for me the first chapter that totally hate. I do understand the thing Oda is trying to pull, we are not idiots, people are doing their best to help and so on, but this stands for normal people, not people like: Fujitora, Zoro.

Wait, so Zoro and Fujitora should not help?

I do feel Zoro is doing his best, because he can't cut the birdcage, so all he can do is brute force against it.

I agree that Fujitora could be doing more, but I don't really know what's up with him.

[Bladia]

@andy:

Jozu is no where near 20 times the size of Don and croc don't even have touch you with his hand to dry you out.

Okay, maybe i exaggerated a bit much lol, but regardless, he is way larger than Doflamingo is. And I never seen an instance where Croc dehydrated someone from a distance. All the times I saw him do sucha thing was he grabbed their neck and they became dessicated in his hand.

[kcity]

@King:

The strings stop when it reaches the center (or else Doula would get shredded as well. A sphere can't close entirely). If it's used against a single person, that person can just go to the center and the strings won't reach him/her.

That's why it's only truly dangerous against several people.

Only if that person is stronger than Doffy and if not Doffy could just hide in the seastone factory and lock himself in. That he doesn't because of story reasons doesn't lessen it's ridiculousness.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Ned_Gutters:

I don't want to be a downer, but this chapter, man…

There are a lot of obvious ways to be doing things better than how they are being done - for example, Zoro just trying to cut bird-cage, succeeding, but it doesn't matter cause it just regenerated instantaneously. Now, of course, Oda likes to do things that are unpredictable, but the problem with Zoro (and everyone) just pushing the birdcage is it isn't unpredictable qua creative; it is unpredictable qua unbelievable/inane/problematic. It is unbelievable that Zoro wouldn't even TRY to cut it after his "I can cut everything" speech. It is inane in that people who could do something about Doffy (even Zoro, though he doesn't get involved in Luffy's fights, does stand up when he is down, but there are countless others too) are choosing to push on the birdcage instead. It is problematic because it leads to power level discussions, which one piece is not supposed to be about.

How cool would it be if the problem wasn't just "Birdcage > Everyone on the island, including Fuji, Zoro, and other strong bros", but instead that the power itself functions in weird ways? How cool would it be if Zoro could cut it, but it regenerates instantly? If it couldn't cut or move barto's barrier, but instead it just wound itself around/over it? How could would it be if it was malleable and fuji's gravity just pulled it down a little? And how cool would it be if, all these things the birdcage does to work around its problem, all that effort expended to get around each characters unique ways of dealing with it, slowed the birdcage down? How could would it be if regenerating strings, moving around barriers, etc. slowed Doffy down?

More importantly: How One Piece would that be? How One Piece would it be for different characters to unite under a common goal, but in their own ways, instead of everybody - including Roronoa "Sliceman" Zoro - just pushing on strings together? How One Piece is the Zoro and everyone else just pushing on strings together? Not very, imo.

And now everything is a goddamn timer. Luffy needs 3 minutes, but Birdcage will take only 2, but Dandelion tears take 2.5 (or what the hell ever). Instead of weird creative limitations and powers, we're just getting time limit after time limit after time limit tempered with out of character inanity.

The last few chapters I have had mixed feelings about, but I think it was mostly just due to arc fatigue. Now, though, problems are really coming together, and I think I can honestly say that this is the first chapter of One Piece I have seriously disliked. I will keep reading, and I hope that it gets better, and I absolutely 100% think Oda can do that, but at the time time, post-time skip just isn't feeling right to me, and this chapter really made that feel worse.

16 chars of great post.

[andy]

Some people just unwilling to accept certain character can't do certain things .
If that make the manga bad for you well maybe the next arc might better suit your taste.

[King Cannon]

@kcity:

Only if that person is stronger than Doffy and if not Doffy could just hide in the seastone factory and lock himself in. That he doesn't because of story reasons doesn't lessen it's ridiculousness.

Franky, Zoro and the Dwarves are at the factory. They wouldn't let him in.

[andy]

@kcity:

Only if that person is stronger than Doffy and if not Doffy could just hide in the seastone factory and lock himself in. That he doesn't because of story reasons doesn't lessen it's ridiculousness.

yes because law would just let him lock his self in there…...........
Do you see how stupid this is you come with some hypothetically idea and then want to say the story being ridiculous.
While also forgetting the character that can do something about it.

[ICEMAN]

The birdcage has a weakness, too bad Inazuma's not around….

[kcity]

@King:

Franky, Zoro and the Dwarves are at the factory. They wouldn't let him in.

They couldn't stop him even if they wanted to, if Fujitora or Sabo would be there I'd agree. Still besides the point, Doffy could've go into hiding anytime he wanted after launching the birdcage, he doesn't because of story reasons or the Tontatta's and Franky stop him because of story reasons. It's a hypothetical scenario that shows that his power is beyond ridiculous.

[Ned_Gutters]

@andy:

There will always be power level talking in a shonen battle manga .
Even more so on a fourm where the hardcore fans are.

True enough. Especially so, we don't need more excuses to have it.

@King:

Everybody needs to push it in order to do something, so there's not much of a choice. The point here is stalling the cage.

I honestly don't know where this Birdcage regeneration idea came from. Not to mention it would bring questions about why no one would try to escape before the strings regenerated after being cut.

It's still baffling that people can't accept indestructible strings, but can accept shadow necromancy, sand that causes drought/dehydration and explosive light.

Well, the regeneration point would handle that. Instant regeneration comes from two places:
(1) Oda has creative authority here. He can do what he wants. Admittedly, that's not very satisfying. More importantly though,
(2) The birdcage was created by a string clone. The strings forming the bird cage are pretty clearly of a greater volume than the strings composing the clone (more string makes up the cage than did the clone), so we've already seen strings come from strings. If string can come from string, I don't see why more birdcage can't come from the birdcage, up to some limit. I've been assuming there is a certain amount of string Doffy can have going at once (otherwise, why no army of clones? Why not cover the world in birdcages?), but if the cage is cut, I see no reason why that wouldn't allow him to replace what has been lost without exceeding his limit.

The instant portion is why people wouldn't be able to escape. First, it might just be the case that he has never trapped someone who can cut like Zoro, but to keep the cage relevant, it would work just fine if it regenerated instantly. By instantly, I here mean the minimal unit of time - however small a time span can exist between event A and later event B, that would be the "instant" between A and B. (This is not generally my conception of "instant" but is what I mean here.) So, if he cut it, but it literally reformed the moment the blade was not in the way, people wouldn't be able to get out.

Here is a diagram of what I mean ("|" is string, "==>" is sword, while Zoro is swinging it through string)

Time 1:
|||||
|||||
==>
|||||
|||||

Time 2:
|||||
|||||
|==>
|||||
|||||

Time 3:
|||||
|||||
||==>
|||||
|||||

Time 4:
|||||
|||||
|||==>
|||||
|||||

Time 5:
|||||
|||||
||||==>
|||||
|||||

Time 6:
|||||
|||||
|||||==>
|||||
|||||

(Alternate model at bottom of post, showing a bigger time gap)

So on this model, there would never be a gap (much) larger than the sword. Yet, I would imagine this would take effort to regenerate on Doffy's part, it would take time - albeit small - to regenerate, and it might even require Doffy to notice it first. I imagine he would notice nearly immediately, as I am assuming some part of mental awareness of his strings (otherwise parasite, let alone country-wide parasite, makes no sense). Maybe one person would get out. Iunno. But we know Zoro can swing fast as hell. So even if this didn't open an appreciable gap, it could conceivably stall the birdcage a bit as each regeneration would take a very small amount of time but would add up as Zoro hacks away at it.

That's extravagant, but much more interesting than Mr. "I can cut anything" pushing on the birdcage, and could show that it is specifically the qualities of Doffy's power that is the problem, rather than some quantitative "power level." It is how the strings work that are the problem, not just that Doffy is stronger than an Island full of big shots.

And the real point is that this is in no way the only alternative for Oda to choose from - he is much more creative than I am, and I think that what I came up with is way better than what we are currently seeing in One Piece. It would stand to reason then that Oda could do a MUCH better job than he is doing and still way, way, way, way better than what I have suggested.

@SmokerSan:

My English is no good. I cannot make such great posts like yours, but this is absolutely what I think. It is the same case for me. I have never complained about it even though sometimes anyone can have mixed feelings about chapters. This is also for me the first chapter that totally hate. I do understand the thing Oda is trying to pull, we are not idiots, people are doing their best to help and so on, but this stands for normal people, not people like: Fujitora, Zoro.

I also completely agree. I definitely see that Oda is trying to say "These people are trying so hard! Their determination is so strong! They are doing their best! Everyone do your best! (Even if your best is just pushing!)", but Zoro and Fujitora can - simply put - do better. At least Zoro would try to do better (I don't think Fuji would, due to his own agenda of abolishing the schikibukai); why would Zoro not even try to cut the birdcage?

I'm glad I'm not alone in this chapter being the first I totally hate.

Alternate model of time gap/string regneration (with "." just being empty space/cut string):

Time 1:
|||||
|||||
==>
|||||
|||||

Time 2:
|||||
|||||
.==>
|||||
|||||

Time 3:
|||||
|||||
..==>
|||||
|||||

Time 4:
|||||
|||||
|..==>
|||||
|||||

Time 5:
|||||
|||||
||..==>
|||||
|||||

Time 6:
|||||
|||||
|||..==>
|||||
|||||

(P.S.: I had a typo where I wrote think twice, i.e., "think think." The "think think no mi" would be sweet.)

[RamistaR]

I hope we see Inazuma-san again. Both of them.

[kcity]

@andy:

yes because law would just let him lock his self in there…...........
Do you see how stupid this is you come with some hypothetically idea and then want to say the story being ridiculous.
While also forgetting the character that can do something about it.

Why are you even going on about Law? What does Law as a single person have to do with the birdcage owning pretty much everyone that doesn't teleport or can't barricade himself, including stronger people. Did you even read what I wrote? It's not about story, it's about the power of the birdcage.

[andy]

@kcity:

Why are you even going on about Law? What does Law as a single person have to do with the birdcage owning pretty much everyone that doesn't teleport or can't barricade himself, including stronger people. Did you even read what I wrote? It's not about story, it's about the power of the birdcage.

The power of the bird cage don't mean much if fuji hypothetically goes and kick don ass.
Making hypothetically points make no sense in this context.