Last I checked this was the 'general' criticism thread.
How come even complaints over a recent chapter managed to find their way here is beyond me.
Last I checked this was the 'general' criticism thread.
How come even complaints over a recent chapter managed to find their way here is beyond me.
To be fair, it says nothing about general criticism in the thread title.
Is it really that impressive? Those things are just thought dumps for me on what went through my head by reading the chapter. It doesn't take all that much time or energy, since I think about the stuff either way. I'm almost done with this week's too.
Hell, the major reason I even bother to still do it is because a lot of people seem to appreciate it, and some people ask me about it if I don't. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm flattered that some people seem to care about my opinions enough to request them, and I'm glad that people seem to enjoy reading them. I just never personally felt like it was that big of a deal.
Dude, not to sound like a suck-up but I only read the first 7 pages or so of a new chapter thread and then stop and just look later on if you have posted anything xD
Yeah, but there's this from the OP-
I feel like there should be a thread about criticizing the manga as a whole
@RobbyBevard:
Even his most famous act of freeing the slaves is never truly shown, heavily clouded by hearsay by other people, and he in fact had been caught and was a slave himself. His entire history is a bit of a mess given the flashback within a flashback second-hand telling method Oda chose to show it. All Fishmen looked up to him and exageratted his power and legend, and Hody even twisted it for his own sake, but all in all, Tiger was not up to those beliefs.
There was no evidence of him being able to rip up shelves of rock or having an abnormal immunity to bullets. And he was nowhere near the water where Fishmen are at their strongest.
Well Strawberry said that Jinbe was as strong as Fisher and put those 2 fishmen above the other. So Tiger Fisher was actually stronger than the average Fishman.
Yup…females tend to get discriminated a lot; in OP and also from mother nature.
Criticism of One Piece, huh?
Well, what can I say? I always saw One Piece as one of my three favorite manga (along with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Shin Angyo Onshi). Always found it incredibly pleasant, smart, funny, and so pleasure to read. Even in the arcs I didn't like, I couldn't stop loving this manga.
I even decided to sign it when it was finally released again in my country.
However, almost instantly after it, I realized I was not enjoying this manga anymore. Ever since the timeskip, I simply can't find myself enjoying One Piece (actually, I found Luffy's flashback terrible on its own and it was prior to the timeskip). It is simply not funny anymore, it's like it lost its soul at some point.
Currently, I can't help but feel incredibly annoyed by how long the mini-arcs get to go from one point to the other, how many chapters are spent in nearly nothing, how poor and boring the Straw Hats are becoming as characters, how much Oda tries to be overdramatic and how it is not working anymore with me (Sabo died? So what? Otohime dying and everyone crying? Ok, I liked her, but this is not touching. Mocha swallowed the candies to protect the others? Rolleyes) and the new characters… I don't know, it looks like they are from Fairy Tail (i.e. failed attempts to mimic One Piece's charismatic characters).
I think it's the crew… We need to kill off the whole crew.
@Sonic:
I think it's the crew… We need to kill off the whole crew.
Yeah, I totally agree.
@.access:
Criticism of One Piece, huh?
Well, what can I say? I always saw One Piece as one of my three favorite manga (along with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Shin Angyo Onshi). Always found it incredibly pleasant, smart, funny, and so pleasure to read. Even in the arcs I didn't like, I couldn't stop loving this manga.
I even decided to sign it when it was finally released again in my country.
However, almost instantly after it, I realized I was not enjoying this manga anymore. Ever since the timeskip, I simply can't find myself enjoying One Piece (actually, I found Luffy's flashback terrible on its own and it was prior to the timeskip). It is simply not funny anymore, it's like it lost its soul at some point.
Currently, I can't help but feel incredibly annoyed by how long the mini-arcs get to go from one point to the other, how many chapters are spent in nearly nothing, how poor and boring the Straw Hats are becoming as characters, how much Oda tries to be overdramatic and how it is not working anymore with me (Sabo died? So what? Otohime dying and everyone crying? Ok, I liked her, but this is not touching. Mocha swallowed the candies to protect the others? Rolleyes) and the new characters… I don't know, it looks like they are from Fairy Tail (i.e. failed attempts to mimic One Piece's charismatic characters).
Maybe the characters of Fishman Island (Shirahoshi and Otohime were the only new characters with some depth, and Shirahoshi was more or less the only one who got development), but how about Punk Hazard? I'd say that Momonosuke, and to some degree also Kinemon, definitely has the One Piece-esque charisma. And Caesar has several traits that makes him a much better villain than Hody (and if he ends up being trolled or something, then we at least have Doflamingo behind him). Vergo is also nice - flatter than the other two, but funny and strong enough to be a threat. He is like the Zeo of Punk Hazard - very likable as a villain/character if you don't take his character too seriously. I'm a bit indifferent about Monet's character, however - Devil Fruit to similar to Aokiji's and personality too much of an evil Robin - but in general, Punk Hazard's new characters are really not half-bad.
Maybe the characters of Fishman Island (Shirahoshi and Neptune were the only new characters with some depth, and Shirahoshi was more or less the only one who got development), but how about Punk Hazard? I'd say that Momonosuke, and to some degree also Kinemon, definitely has the One Piece-esque charisma. And Caesar has several traits that makes him a much better villain than Hody (and if he ends up being trolled or something, then we at least have Doflamingo behind him). Vergo is also nice - flatter than the other two, but funny and strong enough to be a threat. He is like the Zeo of Punk Hazard - very likable as a villain/character if you don't take his character too seriously. I'm a bit indifferent about Monet's character, however - Devil Fruit to similar to Aokiji's and personality too much of an evil Robin - but in general, Punk Hazard's new characters are really not half-bad.
Kinnemon and Momonosuke are really good so far!
Ceasar, Vergo and Monet… to be honest, I was thinking about them when I said the Fairy Tail part. They just seem off-the-mark and Vergo's quirks seem like forced and out of place to me (while the characters from Fishman Island were just plain forgetable - Zeo aside, obviously).
One thing I noticed is how One Piece has a ton of characters and have introduced them over the years… yet we know little to nothing about them. I get the feeling that by the time this series is over we'll still never know what a handful of them do, where they came from, what there motive was, etc.
@.access:
Kinnemon and Momonosuke are really good so far!
Ceasar, Vergo and Monet… to be honest, I was thinking about them when I said the Fairy Tail part. They just seem off-the-mark and Vergo's quirks seem like forced and out of place to me (while the characters from Fishman Island were just plain forgetable - Zeo aside, obviously).
No love for the crazy faces of Ceasar? For some reason I just love him for the damn reaction faces he has and I love these kind of crazy villains in general, especially the fact that Luffy always ends up shutting him up, it's like making fun of the typical "talks too much" villain. Vergo, too. Especially the forgetfulness gag while being completely badass. I really like their fighting styles, too. They have some really cool techniques from what we've seen. the NFP seemed to lack a distinct style to them and that was the whole point, but honestly, it was kinda boring. Everyone in this arc is unique in some way or another, even the characters that are not at Punk Hazard.
One thing I noticed is how One Piece has a ton of characters and have introduced them over the years… yet we know little to nothing about them. I get the feeling that by the time this series is over we'll still never know what a handful of them do, where they came from, what there motive was, etc.
It makes sense for that to happen, though. Not everything is about the Strawhats and who they encounter.
There's always a chance for things to make it in one massive databook, though.
@.access:
Criticism of One Piece, huh?
Well, what can I say? I always saw One Piece as one of my three favorite manga (along with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Shin Angyo Onshi). Always found it incredibly pleasant, smart, funny, and so pleasure to read. Even in the arcs I didn't like, I couldn't stop loving this manga.
I even decided to sign it when it was finally released again in my country.
However, almost instantly after it, I realized I was not enjoying this manga anymore. Ever since the timeskip, I simply can't find myself enjoying One Piece (actually, I found Luffy's flashback terrible on its own and it was prior to the timeskip). It is simply not funny anymore, it's like it lost its soul at some point.
I agree with you here. It's like you wrote my thoughts down, thanks for that.
I can't really point my finger at what bothers me since the time skip, but it feels different.
Even the "dramatic" moments don't really reach me. Otohime's and Tiger's death were sad, sure. But it did not make ME sad like all the other flashbacks did. It was more like … "yeah, it sucks that they're dead. Let's move on."
Ace crying at the end of Luffys flashback let me nearly shed a tear. But Mocha now? Nah, not really.
And what i miss is those epic moments that make you want to read a chapter again and again! They are there now and then, but rarely. I don't know when i last read a chapter twice. I used to read it at least 2-3 times when they a chapter was released.
I want to continue loving One Piece and freakin' love everything that came before the time skip. But so far i only "like" what we have seen. Like i said, i can't really say why. Maybe i'm not eloquent enough?
It's great if people enjoy it still as much as always. And it's fun, don't get me wrong. But IMO One Piece lost some of it's soul between the 2 years.
Little Garden and Whiskey Peak didn't particularly have any strong emotions either and that's what Punk Hazard essentially is, just bigger because the crew is bigger. The giant's story wasn't a great tearjerking story, it was just something like "aaaw, that's sad" or "aaw, that's sweet" kind of thing, like the Kinemon and kids subplots in this arc. None of the flashbacks at the start of the series had as much impact and build-up as the later ones. This is the phase OP is in right now.
I would enjoy a great, well-done emotional flashback, but I feel like the series doesn't need any of that right now at where it's at. Maybe the next "big" arc or something, but this is a lead-up arc to a saga. Though, it would be wonderful if there were something like the Drum arc again, it works great on it's own, but is still relevent in the context of the entire story.
A huge issue with One Piece right now seems to be the same issue people had early on in the series.
We've gotten a huge reset, and none of the little arcs are paying off into anything. We have dangling bits of epicness, but the stage is being set once more.
The current pace of the overall story is going to be about as low as it was towards the beginning. It's just how pacing works.
@.access:
Criticism of One Piece, huh?
Well, what can I say? I always saw One Piece as one of my three favorite manga (along with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Shin Angyo Onshi). Always found it incredibly pleasant, smart, funny, and so pleasure to read. Even in the arcs I didn't like, I couldn't stop loving this manga.
I even decided to sign it when it was finally released again in my country.
However, almost instantly after it, I realized I was not enjoying this manga anymore. Ever since the timeskip, I simply can't find myself enjoying One Piece (actually, I found Luffy's flashback terrible on its own and it was prior to the timeskip). It is simply not funny anymore, it's like it lost its soul at some point.
Currently, I can't help but feel incredibly annoyed by how long the mini-arcs get to go from one point to the other, how many chapters are spent in nearly nothing, how poor and boring the Straw Hats are becoming as characters, how much Oda tries to be overdramatic and how it is not working anymore with me (Sabo died? So what? Otohime dying and everyone crying? Ok, I liked her, but this is not touching. Mocha swallowed the candies to protect the others? Rolleyes) and the new characters… I don't know, it looks like they are from Fairy Tail (i.e. failed attempts to mimic One Piece's charismatic characters).
My thoughts excactly. Its so weird really, I was really a huge fan of One Piece that it was almost a lifestyfe. I bought finnish volumes and I had watched anime through several times and I could not praise One Piece enough, then suddenly something just happened to series or me, I just got so…dislodged from series and its almost like it lost a soul.
Worst thing is that I dont even anticipate One Piece manga chapters, I dont ever care if its on break or not, when new One Piece manga chapter appears I am not even excited anymore, I could not care less about spoilers and even though current arc holds some promise I still find it lacking much.
Still One Piece fandom is going stronger than ever and every chapter discussion thread most of posts are praises for a amazing chapter and everyone seem to be more happy about One Piece than ever, I guess its just me.
I think my major issues with One Piece that Oda tries to be too...populist? He try to hard to appease everyone and every chapter has atleast one or two 'DOTOM!' moments and every chapter attempts being more epic than previous, it just gets so repeative and hallow, also I have to agree that main cast has grown out of its proportions, there are so many crew members and so little time that every member gets less time and less time to..growth? Everytime strawhats appear they just have time to show their main charecter quirks and then we switch to next one.
I just dont know, perhaps I have somehow got burnout of One Piece and I need to give a proper half year brake and then read all chapters with one go to get myself emotionally invested to series again, but as of now I dont consider it much better than Naruto and Bleach and over year ago I would never thought I could even imagine ranking OP with crap series like Naruto/Bleach.
I think my major issues with One Piece that Oda tries to be too…populist? He try to hard to appease everyone and every chapter has atleast one or two 'DOTOM!' moments and every chapter attempts being more epic than previous, it just gets so repeative and hallow, also I have to agree that main cast has grown out of its proportions, there are so many crew members and so little time that every member gets less time and less time to..growth? Everytime strawhats appear they just have time to show their main charecter quirks and then we switch to next one..
Sorry, but what are you talking about ? I didn't see any attempt to make the last chapter more epic than the previous one. And yeah still in the last chapter, Chopper just have time to show his character's quirks, and I liked how nami just appeared to say "I smell a treasure in the lab, sorry guys I have to go !"…
@.access:
Kinnemon and Momonosuke are really good so far!
Ceasar, Vergo and Monet… to be honest, I was thinking about them when I said the Fairy Tail part. They just seem off-the-mark and Vergo's quirks seem like forced and out of place to me (while the characters from Fishman Island were just plain forgetable - Zeo aside, obviously).
The truth is the character have always been like this, you just didnt notice because you didnt pay attention. Ohm, Hogback, Absalom, Krieg, Pearl, Mr. 4, angel girl (owner of shu) and more. It is no new thing, you are just noticing it now, it doesnt bother me. A lot of characters are hit and miss, that is just how things work.
Fishman island is though unique where everything went wrong. The trouble is that it is now popular to find One piece not fun anymore and that is the reason for your disapproval as your reasons are pretty bad, you just want to follow the trend.
The main reason for the trend, there are so many readers that just cant read normal One Piece weekly, they could read marineford etc, where things happened every week, that is just not normal one piece.
I think my major issues with One Piece that Oda tries to be too…populist? He try to hard to appease everyone and every chapter has atleast one or two 'DOTOM!' moments and every chapter attempts being more epic than previous, it just gets so repeative and hallow, also I have to agree that main cast has grown out of its proportions, there are so many crew members and so little time that every member gets less time and less time to..growth? Everytime strawhats appear they just have time to show their main charecter quirks and then we switch to next one.
I cracked up after reading this statement. Of all things to be considered it never crossed my mind that someone would complain about Oda trying to come with better chapters.How can an attempt to increase the epicness of a chapter becomes a repetitive function that is hollow?. This idea is plain hilarious
I cracked up after reading this statement. Of all things to be considered it never crossed my mind that someone would complain about Oda trying to come with better chapters.How can an attempt to increase the epicness of a chapter becomes a repetitive function that is hollow?. This idea is plain hilarious
I think he means that the series tries to make too many "DON!" moments - it's essentially repeating some criticism from earlier this thread about jarring and frantic scene changing and not being more seamless in terms of pacing. Which is funny because the fight with Mone and this current chapter show exactly that the pacing is easing up and not so many things are no longer just happening off-screen. I think this entire arc after the Doflamingo reveal has been sort of stabilizing the "old" pacing of One Piece. Yes, it's true that there are points that are being dragged out, but at least, they're no longer skipped. Just look at all the FI fights.
My thoughts excactly. Its so weird really, I was really a huge fan of One Piece that it was almost a lifestyfe. I bought finnish volumes and I had watched anime through several times and I could not praise One Piece enough, then suddenly something just happened to series or me, I just got so…dislodged from series and its almost like it lost a soul.
Worst thing is that I dont even anticipate One Piece manga chapters, I dont ever care if its on break or not, when new One Piece manga chapter appears I am not even excited anymore, I could not care less about spoilers and even though current arc holds some promise I still find it lacking much.
Still One Piece fandom is going stronger than ever and every chapter discussion thread most of posts are praises for a amazing chapter and everyone seem to be more happy about One Piece than ever, I guess its just me.
I think my major issues with One Piece that Oda tries to be too...populist? He try to hard to appease everyone and every chapter has atleast one or two 'DOTOM!' moments and every chapter attempts being more epic than previous, it just gets so repeative and hallow, also I have to agree that main cast has grown out of its proportions, there are so many crew members and so little time that every member gets less time and less time to..growth? Everytime strawhats appear they just have time to show their main charecter quirks and then we switch to next one.
I just dont know, perhaps I have somehow got burnout of One Piece and I need to give a proper half year brake and then read all chapters with one go to get myself emotionally invested to series again, but as of now I dont consider it much better than Naruto and Bleach and over year ago I would never thought I could even imagine ranking OP with crap series like Naruto/Bleach.
It's a bit relieving that there are more fans who feel the same about the recent chapters.
Although i still don't know what exactly bothers me. It just does not feel like before the time-skip.
Well maybe it will change again soon, who knows. Punk Hazard is better than Fishman Island without a doubt. Smoker vs Vergo was really great so far.
But there is still Zoro's "fight" with Monet, which was the low point IMO.
I think he means that the series tries to make too many "DON!" moments - it's essentially repeating some criticism from earlier this thread about jarring and frantic scene changing and not being more seamless in terms of pacing. Which is funny because the fight with Mone and this current chapter show exactly that the pacing is easing up and not so many things are no longer just happening off-screen. I think this entire arc after the Doflamingo reveal has been sort of stabilizing the "old" pacing of One Piece. Yes, it's true that there are points that are being dragged out, but at least, they're no longer skipped. Just look at all the FI fights.
lol, I predict lots of complaining when Smoker vs. Vergo or Luffy vs. Ceasar takes longer than 2 chapters and if they take less than that, there also will be complaining, so…
Now, this I can understand. If any arc was the breaking point of the continuous OP pacing, such arc would be Marine Ford. Maybe Oda got into an info Frenzy ( as in shove all information possible in a chapter..and more) that is hard to calm down. Hence, he had difficulty to settle down the pacing for FI whilst the ASL flashback was blessed by giving an insight to Ace`s words and motivations in the war.
Then again, after a climax it seems to be difficult for a writer to keep a strong and smooth story. From my position this is one of the many characteristics that tell apart an extraordinary writer from a "running of the mill" one. ODA suffered greatly in the FI arc due to his high success in MF. However, Punk hazard has proved to be one hell of a comeback to both the OP pace and the story`s depiction
Both author and readers change as they progress in life, so it's only natural that some fans won't find story as appealing as at the time they started reading. That doesn't mean, that story lost what make them good. It may have lost something that made it looks appealing in eyes of particular fans, or some tastes of some fans may have changed, so that now they don't enjoy story so much.
Into the topic of people feeling that One Piece has changed/lost it's essence since the TimeSkip….I find it normal. You are just noticing Oda's reset, and of course things are different. I dont know when you started reading One Piece weakly, but my case was Water-Seven/Ennies Lobby arc (2005-6). From this precise arc to the War arc, we have the Strawhats figthing really strong enemies that really give us the feeling that the Strawhats are endangered, that they can lose they lifes if they dont give it all. We were also in a point in the series in which we knew more or less the extent of the Strawhats, and how the world worked. I remember for example the exciting Luffyvs Lucci, or the Strawhats vs Oz, or the separation...Great fights and really tense moments.
Then the Time-skip came...And of course all of this has changed. First, we are again in a point in which we don't know the extent of the Strawhats habilities. It's like some Mod Posted, now we are wondering again just how strong the Strawhats are, we are in a point in which the enemies dont push them to their limits. And I think you guys are having here the problem: You want to be back already where the First Part ended, with all the enemies build up, the really tense and dessperate situations, the awesome fights in which the Strawhats give it all. But we are geting enemies (So far, the NFP and CC) that we KNOW are weaker than the Strawhats. And because of this, you dont have any tension in the arc, and get really annoyed when the arcs start to extend, in order to develop the fights,or some tension, or some characters. For example, the latest chapters of the fight inside the laboratory, I have seen lot of people complaining about it beeing slow. Obviously, they feel like that because "Hey, CC is weaker than Luffy, they wont we having much problems, and it seems after this arc is resolved we are getting into more awesome things!! But WTF Oda makes Monet trick Luffy, Clown escapes, break this weak, whinewhinewhine i am losing interest". And it is totally because of this: Because they dont get used to this part of the story (In which the SH are generally stronger than their enemies), in which you get more tension from dangerous things than from the fights or the characters (The Noah or Shinokuni). They find eveything boring, extended and pointless because of the lack of tension and emotion (Which BTW had to go down at some point, for the manga¡s own health). They find, that One Piece is not like before.
You wanna know when you will feel that Old One Piece is back?? When the StrawHats have their first Major arc, either against Dofla or against a Yonkou as it seems right know. Because people will start feeling the emotion and the tension again, they will be seeing the enemies actually as a REAL threat, they will see the SHs at they awesomest again...Heck, even they will have their emotionall scenes again (Oda is even starting to building it up, with things like Dofla relation to Momo). And it is because of this thing that the chapters that people have most enjoyed about this arc are the ones that forshadow this future events: The Luffy/Law alliance against the Yonkou, The other 3 SUpernova appereance and reunion, Dofla's crew presentation. This cpaters give them excitement about the future. They give them the feelings OP gave them before the TimeSkip.
Personally, even though is true that things have changed (Enemies are once again weaker than the SHs) I have been enjoying the Manga Post-TimeSkip: The reunion, the underwater trip, Otohime and Tiger storie, the beating the SHs gave to the NFP, the final chapters of Gyojin Island with the forshadowing, the arrival to the New World, this Punk Hazard arc which is the begining of something much biger. The fights have lost tension, but I am fine: They are still cool reading (Luffy vs Caesar was fun as hell), and little by little we will be back to the awesome tense fights. And I dont mind the arc taking a little bit longer because of Oda wanting to develop, let's say, Tashighi, the G-5, Brownbeard or the kids, since in the long read, those chapters make the arc itslef better.
So , to sum it up: People need to be a little pacient, the awesomeness will be back again. Instead of thinking all the time about next arc, next enemie, etc. Trie to enjoy the actual one while it last.
Have many minor problems with One Piece, but right now, These are the ones bother me.
Logias: Mainly it's intangibility aspect, It worked great with Croc and Enel, because it forced Luffy to be creative to find a way around croc and plain luck against Enel, but once new logias started to appear and didn't had usable weakness, I wish the intangibility aspect never existed to begin with. When the admirals appeared, I didn't get the "all powerful top tier power" aspect from them because they already had a unfair advantage over Luffy and "everyone" because of their logia intangibility. Even against Haki users, they can still be intangible by countering using their own Haki. Which means that whatever person that comes to face them is going to need to have his "Haki level" is stronger than them to finally push them to evade and block attacks. Until that moment comes, they can easily rely on their intangibility protected by their own Haki to have advantage over everyone else. Which bring me too…
Haki: More specifically, the Color of Armaments. I get it has been subtly introduced, but would it hurt to formally introduce it earlier in the Grand Line? Why Color of Armaments wasn't mentioned at the time Croc was introduced? How the fuck the concept of CoA managed to be hidden from the SH over the grandline until Shabaody? If "breath of all things" does happen to be a form of Haki, would it hurt to have it work, even if just made a scratch, against on Enel? It feels like like CoA is a easy solution to the problem Oda introduced when he started to make more Logias. I would have no problem with it if the concept had been introduced and developer earlier over the Grandline. Which brings me to the next point
Time Skip: The whole point of Ace's death arc was for Luffy and the SH realize they are too weak. Ok, we get it. But why, of all pirates crews, Kuma and Rayleigh decided to give "special treatment" to the SH and force them to give up 2 years of adventuring so they could get stronger and, at least for the monster trio, be introduced and teached the concept of Haki? I don't think Whitebeard, Marco and other NW pirates were given Haki lessons, i bet they had to figure out by themselves.
I think Haki and the time skip powers ups should have been left for them to figure it out by themselves. Why not have Luffy figure out CoA by himself while fighting a strong, but not admiral level, Logia enemy? The other problem, that I think it's been already touched, its that it made the SH too fucking strong. To the point FI, one of the most hyped arcs for the fans, was a cakewalk for them fighting wise. The was no sense of actual danger from the New Fishman Pirates and Drecken's crew. Even now, at PH, it's clear that, power-wise, Monet was never an actual threat to Zoro or any of the Monster Trio. I think both FI and PH would been more enjoyable if the Straw hats were weaker and still figuring out Color of Armaments and inventing new power-ups and techniques of desperation to overcome their difficulties.
Time Skip: The whole point of Ace's death arc was for Luffy and the SH realize they are too weak. Ok, we get it. But why, of all pirates crews, Kuma and Rayleigh decided to give "special treatment" to the SH and force them to give up 2 years of adventuring so they could get stronger and, at least for the monster trio, be introduced and teached the concept of Haki? I don't think Whitebeard, Marco and other NW pirates were given Haki lessons, i bet they had to figure out by themselves.
I don't quite understand this complaint. The SH's are the main characters or the focus point of the series, so of course they're going to get special treatment. That aside, Kuma has ties with Dragon and Rayleigh knows of Luffy through Shanks so it's not like they picked up some random crew and decided to save them and teach them Haki.
I think Haki and the time skip powers ups should have been left for them to figure it out by themselves. Why not have Luffy figure out CoA by himself while fighting a strong, but not admiral level, Logia enemy?
One does not simply "figure" out how to use CoA. If it was that easy, there would have been more Haki users at the beginning of the series.
The other problem, that I think it's been already touched, its that it made the SH too fucking strong.
How the hell are they too strong?
We don't even have a clear evaluation of their current strength. The crew has yet to fight some of the strongest people in the New World. None of the SHs are even Admiral level.
There's still a lot of room for growth.
One does not simply "figure" out how to use CoA. If it was that easy, there would have been more Haki users at the beginning of the series.
Haki is the manifestation of a person's willpower, and it's not a stretch to assume that the more ambitious people are the ones further down the Grand Line. After all, strength is directly correlated to willpower in One Piece. So it makes sense that there weren't any haki users early on. But it's not because haki is a super secret powerup that needs to be unlocked.
Haki is the manifestation of a person's willpower, and it's not a stretch to assume that the more ambitious people are the ones further down the Grand Line. After all, strength is directly correlated to willpower in One Piece. So it makes sense that there weren't any haki users early on. But it's not because haki is a super secret powerup that needs to be unlocked.
Arlong and Crocodile were very ambitious villains (one wanted to control the entire East Blue under his own empire, the other wanted to gain a WMD to create a powerful military-state).
Both of them used to reside pretty far in the Grand Line, but neither one of them had haki.
In Arlong's case, he probably never heard about haki due to in-experience. Crocodile had knowledge about haki, but he never bothered to learn it (probably due to having his ambition crushed by Whitebeard and being outclassed in the NW.)
Arlong and Crocodile were very ambitious villains (one wanted to control the entire East Blue under his own empire, the other wanted to gain a WMD to create a powerful military-state).
Arlong gave up on the Grand Line and settled for the weak East Blue. So much for ambition. And as for Crocodile, we haven't even seen the last of him. If he's going to be a big player in the New World, you can be sure as hell he's going to develop haki. Not even Luffy had haki from the very beginning.
In Arlong's case, he probably never heard about haki due to in-experience. Crocodile had knowledge about haki, but he never bothered to learn it (probably due to having his ambition crushed by Whitebeard and being outclassed in the NW.)
Haki is not something you learn. It is not a skill. It's the manifestation of a person's willpower.
Arlong gave up on the Grand Line and settled for the weak East Blue. So much for ambition. And as for Crocodile, we haven't even seen the last of him. If he's going to be a big player in the New World, you can be sure as hell he's going to develop haki. Not even Luffy had haki from the very beginning.
Haki is not something you learn. It is not a skill. It's the manifestation of a person's willpower.
I'm confused because at the very least CoA seems to be something that can be learned. Or else the whole amazone island doesn't make sense.
Also saying Haki isn't a skill is maybe a misnomer? It's something that can be acquired, be developed, be thought to others(Rayleigh), by all means it is a skill.
For now it only seems that CoO and CoC are the two types of haki that can't be acquired by going to haki school. But once you have it, it's like any other skill.
I'm confused because at the very least CoA seems to be something that can be learned. Or else the whole amazone island doesn't make sense.
Also saying Haki isn't a skill is maybe a misnomer? It's something that can be acquired, be developed, be thought to others(Rayleigh), by all means it is a skill.
I mean that haki isn't something akin to playing the guitar, for example. I suppose to some extent it is a skill that can be honed, but whether you have it or not in the first place has nothing to do with practice.
Arlong gave up on the Grand Line and settled for the weak East Blue. So much for ambition.
Even though some characters consider the East Blue to be the weakest of the four blue seas, planning to conquer an entire sea is still very ambitious.
And as for Crocodile, we haven't even seen the last of him. If he's going to be a big player in the New World, you can be sure as hell he's going to develop haki. Not even Luffy had haki from the very beginning.
Crocodile's return in the New World is one of the most anticipated events I'm waiting for.
I want him to be able to give Luffy a run for his money again, just to show how powerful he's gotten.
Haki is not something you learn. It is not a skill. It's the manifestation of a person's willpower.
Okay, maybe I should re-phrase that statement.
Haki is dormant in every living person. But once awakened, it can be trained and fine-tuned.
You can learn how to control and master either of the three types of haki after awakening it through intense training.
Arlong and Crocodile never awakened or activated their dormant haki for various reasons.
Even though some characters consider the East Blue to be the weakest of the four blue seas, planning to conquer an entire sea is still very ambitious.
Arlong was laying low for like a decade, paying off the marines so that they wouldn't bother him. He was just a tyrant flaunting over those weaker than him. Of course he was ambitious to some extent, but he seemed perfectly fine just living the sweet life.
Okay, maybe I should re-phrase that statement.
Haki is dormant in every living person. But once awakened, it can be trained and fine-tuned.
I can agree with that. But it still doesn't mean you need someone training you to fine-tune it. You could very well figure out the ropes yourself.
Arlong was laying low for like a decade, paying off the marines so that they wouldn't bother him. He was just a tyrant flaunting over those weaker than him. Of course he was ambitious to some extent, but he seemed perfectly fine just living the sweet life.
Holding an entire island hostage isn't exactly what I would call laying low. Even if he was giving Nezumi a cut of the earnings to keep other marines from interfering.
I can agree with that. But it still doesn't mean you need someone training you to fine-tune it. You could very well figure out the ropes yourself.
The way haki has been shown leads me to believe that a person can't just figure it out on their own. Especially if someone trying to awaken haki doesn't even know how to do it in the first place.
It can't be as simple as "imagine an invisible armor around your arm" or "try and make people faint".
Holding an entire island hostage isn't exactly what I would call laying low. Even if he was giving Nezumi a cut of the earnings to keep other marines from interfering.
It's all in perspective. Aiming to be pirate king, for example, is objectively more ambitious than Arlong's goal. And anyway Arlong had absolutely zero competition. He fell into complacency; that much is pretty clear.
The way haki has been shown leads me to believe that a person can't just figure it out on their own. Especially if someone trying to awaken haki doesn't even know how to do it in the first place.
It can't be as simple as "imagine an invisible armor around your arm" or "try and make people faint".
You could easily learn the ropes through observation. Haki is a well known thing in the New World. It's not like you have to discover the entire concept by yourself. Could I derive the entire field of calculus by myself? Hell no, but I can learn it pretty easily because others in the past already did the hard work. Someone like Kid, for example, didn't have anyone train him. He just marched straight on into the New World.
I was going to do a large reply on my criticisms but I realized I dont care enough.
Also most of your post is not only full of senseless bashing that makes me wonder if you actually read the manga, but mostly you are taking opinions of a few people to make statements.
You could easily learn the ropes through observation.
Well, seeing as how haki is invisible, that'll be pretty difficult.
Haki is a well known thing in the New World. It's not like you have to discover the entire concept by yourself. Could I derive the entire field of calculus by myself? Hell no, but I can learn it pretty easily because others in the past already did the hard work.
Not really a good comparison.
The mathematical problems in calculus are things that you can see with your own eyes.
Haki is an invisible force of willpower.
Someone like Kid, for example, didn't have anyone train him. He just marched straight on into the New World.
And he lost an arm and has a massive scar across his face.
And we don't know if Kid awakened haki yet (he most likely has, and if that's the case, then we can speculate that maybe he had someone train him. Not too sure about that one yet.)
Also most of your post is not only full of senseless bashing that makes me wonder if you actually read the manga, but mostly you are taking opinions of a few people to make statements.
Who are you even referring to? There was no bashing in this thread.
Well, seeing as how haki is invisible, that'll be pretty difficult.
Come on now. The first step to honing your haki is to know it exists.
And he lost an arm and has a massive scar across his face.
What does his physical scarring have to do with learning haki? Whitebeard had scars too.
Haki isn't necessary acquired by having someone teaching it to you. It can be discovered without the user even knowing that it's haki(Coby/maybe Zoro).
It can be self thought or the Character can even have a Eureka moment.
Rayleigh says something along the lines as people giving different names to Haki depending on where they are from. Mantra for example is what COO is called on Skypiea. It exist in all people they just have to discover it. Zoro's "Breath of all things" could be also be Haki. Zoro being unaware of Haki at that time felt this was best explanation he can get for what he was feeling.
Edit: So yes! One can simply like Zoro, discover COA.
Life or death moments bring about many discoveries for many characters.
Also If COA was to be always thought by someone than who the hell thought the first Haki user COA?
The first Haki user must have discovered it himself somehow…
One does not simply "figure" out how to use CoA. If it was that easy, there would have been more Haki users at the beginning of the series.
Which is why I think CoA should had been introduced earlier, which was one of the complains I made.
Even without being introduced to the concept yet, Luffy knew that his grandfather could bypass his rubber powers and hurt him. The same with Sentoumaru. And he also saw that Rayleigh could hurt Kizaru when his crew could not. There should had been enough clues for him to figure out on his own that there was a way to bypass DF-defense without resorting to natural weakness or seastone.
And personally, I feel that be capable of finally hitting a logia without resorting to weakness should had been a builded up climatic scene. Not something acquired off-screen. I may be the only one that feels like this, but I feel like Oda shot down one the scenes I was more looking forward since we discovered that it was possible to hurt logias without resorting tricks.
How the hell are they too strong?
We don't even have a clear evaluation of their current strength. The crew has yet to fight some of the strongest people in the New World. None of the SHs are even Admiral level.
There's still a lot of room for growth.
I was not talking about the New World. They became too strong for the Grandline before even finishing it. The crew got so strong, that the villains from Fishman island, that should have give them at least a decent fight before the time-skip, were absolutely curb-stomped. HARD.
I think Fishman Island would had been much more enjoyable arc if the crew had just went to there and face a threat of their level instead of taking a 2 year training section to cakewalk it like nothing. I also think Punk Hazard would have been a good opportunity to pre-TS Luffy develop his CoA fighting Cesar instead of have already mastered it to the point he can easily get Cesar.
Come on now. The first step to honing your haki is to know it exists.
Yeah, that's the first step. But actually manifesting an invisible armor of willpower freely isn't as simple as that.
What does his physical scarring have to do with learning haki? Whitebeard had scars too.
Kid didn't get that scar until after he enter the New World. Which leads me to believe that he met his match and was put into a very dangerous situation.
He probably didn't awaken his haki until after that incident.
Which is why I think CoA should had been introduced earlier, which was one of the complains I made.
Garp's fist of love is seemingly hinted to be CoA haki. If so, it was introduced at less 15 volumes before the time skip.
Even without being introduced to the concept yet, Luffy knew that his grandfather could bypass his rubber powers and hurt him. The same with Sentoumaru. And he also saw that Rayleigh could hurt Kizaru when his crew could not. There should had been enough clues for him to figure out on his own that there was a way to bypass DF-defense without resorting to natural weakness or seastone.
Luffy probably knew, after seeing other people besides his grandfather hurt him with blunt attacks, that there was a way to bypass DF users abilities.
But this is Luffy we're talking about here.
And personally, I feel that be capable of finally hitting a logia without resorting to weakness should had been a builded up climatic scene. Not something acquired off-screen. I may be the only one that feels like this, but I feel like Oda shot down one the scenes I was more looking forward since we discovered that it was possible to hurt logias without resorting tricks.
Well, that's just you.
Hitting a logia with CoA didn't really need to be built up since it's going to happen a lot in the future.
The first logia Luffy hit with CoA post-skip was Caribou and he didn't really have much going for him besides his DF ability.
I was not talking about the New World. They became too strong for the Grandline before even finishing it. The crew got so strong, that the villains from Fishman island, that should have give them at least a decent fight before the time-skip, were absolutely curb-stomped. HARD.
You're making no sense. They haven't even reached the end of the Grand Line. They've just recently passed the half way point.
Do you really believe that just because they didn't have a hard time taking down the New Fishman Pirates that every strong opponent in Paradise (Crocodile, Enel, Moriah, CP9, Kuma, etc.) couldn't do the same thing?
I think Fishman Island would had been much more enjoyable arc if the crew had just went to there and face a threat of their level instead of taking a 2 year training section to cakewalk it like nothing. I also think Punk Hazard would have been a good opportunity to pre-TS Luffy develop his CoA fighting Cesar instead of have already mastered it to the point he can easily get Cesar.
Luffy has not mastered CoA.
Did you miss the page where Luffy stated that his CoA wasn't strong enough to withstand cutting and piercing attacks?
Yeah, that's the first step. But actually manifesting an invisible armor of willpower freely isn't as simple as that.
Don't tell me you think every character ever who has haki had to go through training with some mentor. The first person to master haki couldn't have had a mentor.
Kid didn't get that scar until after he enter the New World. Which leads me to believe that he met his match and was put into a very dangerous situation.
He probably didn't awaken his haki until after that incident.
We don't know that. Then again, we also don't know if Kid has haki at all (as likely as it is), so whatever. I'll drop it.
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We're dealing with hypotheticals, so this is going nowhere. I suppose only time will tell.
Correction, the monster trio are the ones that are too strong. Everyone else in the crew, since no one else knows or can use haki, are jokes imo. Luffy is going to have to sit down with all of them and teach them that and train them as well before they can be considered too strong. The issue is that the New Fishman pirates were extremely weak ,making it seem like the strawhats were crazy powerful. The non-monster trio are literally just fighting grunts while the main 3 do everything themselves.
Correction, the monster trio are the ones that are too strong. Everyone else in the crew, since no one else knows or can use haki, are jokes imo. Luffy is going to have to sit down with all of them and teach them that and train them as well before they can be considered too strong. The issue is that the New Fishman pirates were extremely weak ,making it seem like the strawhats were crazy powerful. The non-monster trio are literally just fighting grunts while the main 3 do everything themselves.
Now is even worse.Now is just Luffy and his first mate
Even the boring monster trio sound good to me now.
I want to see good Franky or Robin fight,but that will probably never gonna happen.
I dont consider it much better than Naruto and Bleach and over year ago I would never thought I could even imagine ranking OP with crap series like Naruto/Bleach.
LOL what utter bullshit.
LOLOLOL this is way to funny , just listening to retards here who are trying to shove their personal preference as a fact down people throat is just so hilarious.
Isn't there anyone who knows what they are talking about in this thread??
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LOL what utter bullshit.
LOLOLOLOL that guy must either be trolling or simply does not know what he is talking about .
Oda is good with bringing minor characters into the story… and I also applaud him for not letting his story go the DBZ route like so many other series have gone; HOWEVER, I want more development for FRANKY!
Fortunately I know as the series progresses this will happen, but it sucks to see how condescending the anime have treated him in the past weeks. (He didnt even have any lines in the latest episode). Not to mention how some of the OP fans view him. I think when authors spend more time on a character, that character develops and fleshes out in ways they would have never had initally guessed. It seems that Brooke has more character than Franky (AND FRANKY WAS THERE FIRST!!!)
Franky has such potential, not mention that he is probably the most physically capable of the crew right after the Monster Trio. Please Oda... Sanji had his time to shine lately. Gives us some more Franky, Robin, and Usopp (but especially FRANKY)
OW OW SUUUUUUUUPPERR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't care about the thread really, but I feel bad for the fans who get disillusioned with the series with join dates like October 2012 or November 2012. They never even got that moment of bliss where they could just sit back and enjoy the series. That's pretty tragic, honestly, especially with an arc that many are considering in their top 3 or 5 arcs like Punk Hazard.