Lynch Count: With thirteen alive, it takes 7 to lynch. A lynch must be achieved.
Gunkan [1]: Koh Shuhan1288 [1]: Gerri
Waffles [1]: Gunkan
Not voting [9]: Elisabeth Heart, Foolio, Harvady Alumnus, horlianis, Shuhan1288, Silent Klaubautermann, TheManWithNoName, Waffles, Wooden_Giraffe, xasjjx
One Piece Mafia: Part II
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Wow if that counts i will laugh like hell
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
and now i am xD lol
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Ok I'm alive, unvote.
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Eli, I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one who had problems. Hear my story. At the time Bogart asked me for a Player-by-player analysis, I did not have one. As I said, I had Gunkan and Shuhan. I didn't need anyone else. While Gunkan improved, Shuhan didn't. He's my main suspect right now and I'm building my entire case around him. I'm more of an instinctive player. I look for things that seem unnatural to me. Just once I would like town to follow them. I was right about Harvady in X, I was right about Wooden in kmo's mini but nobody would follow it. No in the second case Huschel rather lynched himself on a guilty he knew was wrong than put a vote on Wooden. I don't believe in textbook scumtells. In every game I played the people lynched for them were townies that either didn't care or didn't know such a textbook exists. Still when Bogart asked me for my analysis I wanted to do it. However, I fell asleep shortly after (it was 3am), next day being my birthday when despite that I had to go on a business trip. During the train ride I reread everybody's posts and took notes on what they said and who they interacted with. Those notes are lost right now since my laptop shut down completely due to the virus thing. I couldn't post them during the last day either because I wasn't quite done by the time the lynch was achieved. I don't mind (except for not delivering in time what Bogart asked of me) because Kefka's Lynch plus the way Foolio started the day made me realize the likely Shuhan/Foolio/Waffles connection. Still I want to Lynch Shuhan and I would appreciate you guys putting some trust into my feelings. I don't expect Shuhan to slip again like he did when was still unobserved, still unchallenged. He's too good a player to paint an easy target on himself. Lynch him. Just lynch him. Go ahead and lynch me if he flips town.
PS: even though I addressed Eli this post is for everybody. Vote Shuhan!
PPS: don't expect me to ever post something like this again. It's embarrassing.Sorry, but your entire case against me is a weak word context that you are really reading into. You are trying to make it so that that 'only' is the most damning piece about me. Sorry Gerri, but if you are gonna try and lynch me because of one little word that means nothing, you doing little more than being an active lurker that is looking for something that is obviously not there. I used only because it is just that…there are ONLY three mafia. Iwas stating a fact from the mod, nothing more nothing less…
I have explained that I jumped the gun...at least for now...on TMWNN because of word context...sound familiar? Get off your grammar horse and actually look for scum...unless you are one yourself, which I am beginning to start wondering myself...
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Everybody should start keeping track of who a person attacks because if they die during the night we will have something solid to stand on when thinking of who to lynch as the person being attacked might be mafia and kill the person to try to kill suspicions on them
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That is why I suspect Elisabeth. Only Bogart was concerned about her the other day, he tried to get us all on board with him but we never did. The next night he dies. I question Elisabeth a simple question and Gunkan goes mental trying to defend when there was no need for him to do so in the first place. He tries to write off my claims by saying I don't know what I'm talking about to make it seem like I'm an idiot so you guys won't take me seriously. I think those two might be in cahoots, Bogart did accuse them both..
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Doh meant to say ask Elisabeth a simple question
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Well if we lynch gunkan or heart and they flip mafia then it is most likely the other who lives in the end is mafia
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-Innocent on Wooden_Giraffe-
D1 Vote Index
! TheManWithNoName - Waffles (5180)
Gerri - Gunkan (5210)
Gunkan - TheManWithNoName (5220)
Waffles - TheManWithNoName (5223)
Gunkan - Waffles (5225)
Foolio - MagiciteKefka (5226)
Wooden_Giraffe - MagiciteKefka (5251)
Harvady Alumnus - Gerri (5252)
vorlianis - Shuhan1288 (5274)
TheManWithNoName - MagiciteKefka (5280)
Bogart - Elizabeth Heart (5295)
xasjjx - Gerri (5305)
Shuhan1288 - TheManWithNoName (5330)
Elizabeth Heart - MagiciteKefka (5369)
Koh - MagiciteKefka (5371)
Bogart - MagiciteKefka (5373)
xasjjx - MagiciteKefka (5374)
Waffles - MagiciteKefka (5375)Magicite's wagon was started fairly early in the day and was never short on support. The final votes in particular, came in very quick succession. Some of those voters didn't offer much reasoning either. While I do applaud aggressive voting, it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone on Magicite's wagon had the same intention. The way I see it, there are at least two mafia on that wagon.
Koh had been forthcoming on his suspicion of MagiciteKefka, but the case itself was vague. In his posts during D1, he made mentions of his suspicion, but they seemed only to exist to justify his later wagon vote. His actions seem premeditated, if only because he didn't bring out a full case. He put down his vote very quickly after Elizabeth put down hers, just two posts away. His elaboration post in regards to his stance on MagiciteKefka was (5303) but didn't vote until much later at (5371). Why the long wait, Koh?
xasjjx is another who was quick to the wagon, voting directly after Bogart did. Unlike Koh, he had never mentioned MagiciteKefka previously. It was an easy vote to make, with no real commitment on his part. Was wagoning your only concern, xasjjx?
Waffles is a bit different. The hammer vote is always something that people will debate as being scum-like. The only intention that a hammer vote can have is to end the day. Waffles voted very early in the day, and only switched wagons to bring down the hammer. There's nothing wrong with putting down a vote, especially if it is the last one needed.
The only thing that sticks out to me is that you made it so quickly after xasjjx brought the count to L-1. Typically when a player is about to be lynched, we wait for them to make a formal claim, and address any of their thoughts before we bring down the hammer. If we're about to see someone's true alignment, everything they say will have a definitive meaning behind it. I don't want to automatically chalk it up to this being your first game, so I ask: Why the rush, Waffles?
MagiciteKefka went from four votes to eight votes in an hour and twenty-three minutes. I don't think that was enough time to hear from her again.
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Yeah I basically voted for Kefka to end the day. If Silent had been present I would have waited for her to vote though. I didn't wait because Kefka had done a bad job at defending herself previously and seemed like she had given up. That and the fact that Kefka had hardly posted at all in the game. All in all I wanted to end the day and it was clear the majority wanted Kefka out.
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Eli, I'm relieved to hear I'm not the only one who had problems. Hear my story. At the time Bogart asked me for a Player-by-player analysis, I did not have one. As I said, I had Gunkan and Shuhan. I didn't need anyone else. While Gunkan improved, Shuhan didn't. He's my main suspect right now and I'm building my entire case around him. I'm more of an instinctive player. I look for things that seem unnatural to me. Just once I would like town to follow them. I was right about Harvady in X, I was right about Wooden in kmo's mini but nobody would follow it. No in the second case Huschel rather lynched himself on a guilty he knew was wrong than put a vote on Wooden. I don't believe in textbook scumtells. In every game I played the people lynched for them were townies that either didn't care or didn't know such a textbook exists. Still when Bogart asked me for my analysis I wanted to do it. However, I fell asleep shortly after (it was 3am), next day being my birthday when despite that I had to go on a business trip. During the train ride I reread everybody's posts and took notes on what they said and who they interacted with. Those notes are lost right now since my laptop shut down completely due to the virus thing. I couldn't post them during the last day either because I wasn't quite done by the time the lynch was achieved. I don't mind (except for not delivering in time what Bogart asked of me) because Kefka's Lynch plus the way Foolio started the day made me realize the likely Shuhan/Foolio/Waffles connection. Still I want to Lynch Shuhan and I would appreciate you guys putting some trust into my feelings. I don't expect Shuhan to slip again like he did when was still unobserved, still unchallenged. He's too good a player to paint an easy target on himself. Lynch him. Just lynch him. Go ahead and lynch me if he flips town.
PS: even though I addressed Eli this post is for everybody. Vote Shuhan!
PPS: don't expect me to ever post something like this again. It's embarrassing.I'm not sure what to make of this post. Are you saying I'm probably working with Waffles just because I didn't directly go after him? Where was I actually defensive of him? Here are some quotes
And to be honest there is a whole Waffles ordeal going on, and he hasn't been helping himself at all there, but I got instant scum vibes from MagiciteKefka.
Waffles' wagon jump was awful quick too. I know you guys are new but come on.
Waffles got a lot of attention and was all over the place, but Kefka caught my attention faster and went largely ignored.
If it is somehow still unclear to you, I was saying the case against Waffles was understandable and getting quite a bit of attention, but I wanted to focus on a more-overlooked player who I found quite suspicious. If you're referring to the quotes Gunkan dug up then you're really twisting the meanings in your head.
I don't like how you're jumping on me like this all of a sudden right after I start to question your wording and possible scenarios a bit. Yesterday I don't think you mentioned me at all. Please explain how my first post today aids your "suspicions" of me in any way. How does anything I say associate me to those two? Because I said to look at Bogart's suspects?
As for Gerri being the first to hypo-cop, that was in the wake of some suspicions against him and could have been a reason to get town points and clear him. Or not. But it could go either way. The level of begging and desperation in this post also confuses me… that doesn't seem like you. You wouldn't be the only one with good instincts but no decent evidence with which to garner town support (you're definitely off if you think I'm scum though), and as Harvady pointed out you really can't build a wagon out of instinct.
Waffles, interesting of you to mention only Elisa and Gunkan as Bogart's suspects, when he made the following statement:
Now I'm not saying Gerri, TMWNN and Elizabeth Heart are our Mafia Trio, but I actually do have feelings toward at least two of them being Mafia
He was also looking at Gunkan as well, of course. Earlier I said I could buy a Gerri/TMWNN/Gunkan trio but it could just as easily be a Gerri/TMWNN/Waffles trio. Gunkan has been trying really hard to get into the game and be productive, and while it doesn't mean I don't suspect him I'm not sure I can say the same for Waffles.
Shuhan is, as I've been mildly suggesting, on my radar, but I don't feel anything strong yet. I'm more concerned about players who have been posting very little and/or with mostly short posts. Xas and Koh come to mind, and to a lesser extent vorlianis. This isn't how you played last game Koh, and I'm somewhat scratching my head at how your replies, at least the ones that aren't about being confused, are very close to not being coherent.
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@Harvady:
xasjjx is another who was quick to the wagon, voting directly after Bogart did. Unlike Koh, he had never mentioned MagiciteKefka previously. It was an easy vote to make, with no real commitment on his part. Was wagoning your only concern, xasjjx?
It wasn't really something I was concerned about, honestly I just voted, because there was a wagon.
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Pages. I will read them.
Gerri. You know the game, we are alone, if you deeply feel the suspicious for someone you need to convince the others to follow you. I understand your frustration maybe more than most, but on the other side I don't trust you, and you are addressing this post to me. It makes me feel compassion for you… I am wary of such feeling in a game like this.
Now, Gunkan~
You like fishing ? Apparently you do :)Why would you ask Waffles, what he thinks of mean ? Curious.
Why don't you ask me directly if there's something wrong ? Very curious.Vote Lynch : Gunkan
Stop distorting my words. Kthxbye :D
ps : Oh now Waffles notices it too but thinks we are a team ?
You are misreading though. It rather looks like Gunkan is planting a seed of doubt here.
pps : And please, civil exchanges ? I enjoy curses like the next French girl but not in a game like this.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
what he thinks of me*
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Lynch Count: With thirteen alive, it takes 7 to lynch. A lynch must be achieved. Gunkan [2]: Koh, Elisabeth Heart
Shuhan1288 [1]: Gerri Waffles [1]: Gunkan Not voting [8]: Foolio, Harvady Alumnus, horlianis, Shuhan1288, Silent Klaubautermann, TheManWithNoName, Waffles, Wooden_Giraffe, xasjjx -
Not much activity lately, I see. I would actually be quite willing to support a Gunkan lynch right now because as unfair or mean as this may seem, I think we need to get rid of a new player tonight. Why? Several reasons. For one they are making it quite troublesome to guess whether or not they are really making mistakes / lacking understanding of the usual flow of the game. If they were putting us on, it could either be because they are scum or, less likely, to stay off the mafia's radar.
If one or more of them is mafia then we should figure out which one it is anyway, and if they aren't, then they are providing fantastic distractions and smokescreens for the real mafia. Between Gunkan, Waffles, and TMWNN there are all sorts of accusations flying, and theories, and posts we wouldn't expect from normal players. It's giving me a headache.
At this point I think you could build a substantial case against any of the three, and I would not even count out the possibility of two of them were mafia (though I have my doubts about whether or not Kitsu would let that happen). Gunkan has, like I said, been putting much effort into the game. However I keep feeling it isn't right. Starting out slow, but coming to the point of making massive posts with seemingly lots of information and opinions but when you think about it, mostly of little significance. And he's been trying to defend me, which actually makes me feel weird because I feel like he's trying to associate himself with me in some way. But on the flipside, he really could just be a somewhat lost new player trying really hard to do what's best and what's right – and he has been taking more time than most making some of his posts, I'd wager. If that's the case then I'm sorry. Right now I feel like this is the best course of action, and the flip SHOULD tell us something.
Vote lynch: Gunkan
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Not much to say right now, need to catch up first.
Inno on Xas.
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Lynch Count:
With thirteen alive, it takes 7 to lynch. A lynch must be achieved. Gunkan [3]: Elisabeth Heart, Foolio, Koh
Shuhan1288 [1]: Gerri
Waffles [1]: Gunkan
Not voting [8]: Harvady Alumnus, horlianis, Shuhan1288, Silent Klaubautermann, TheManWithNoName, Waffles, Wooden_Giraffe, xasjjx -
Back and hopefully i stay virusless this time.
To be honest i saw that Kefka flip coming…. he acted like he didn't knew wether to even start this game or not and when he said something it looked like he wasn't all that sure of himself..
So Xas..... you had no real reason to lynch Magicite? You voted just because? Was it just to show an empty example of supposed activity? You were active here yesterday with that comedy stick you were pulling. While i don't mind that but you just up and left again making your presence useless.
Shuhan you are telling that he isn't looking for scum but you seem to be pretty passive as well. Koh responded to you, you have nothing left to say to him anymore? Is your brotherly love acting up?
And keep out the personal insults once again please.
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Foolio, did you really just say we should lynch the new players one by one until we find mafia because they make your Head hurt? So what will Gunkan flipping town tell you? What will Gunkan flipping mafia tell you? Why Gunkan before Waffles, TMWNN for that matter? Add Koh if you want to. What would their flips tell you? Because I don't see how lynching the confusing ones is telling.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also Foolio, why don't you go directly after Waffles? Your posts you provided seem to indicate suspicion.
xasjjx, didn't you say you'd become more active. The way you jumped that wagon was weird.
Eli, I know I'm on my own. Apologies for venting my frustration like that.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Shuhan1288:
It seems that those known to be very good scum hunters will be under heavy danger… we need to hit the Mafia hard today.
The cop should only reveal if they have a guilty, if that answers your question Gerri. If our only weapons are lynching and the cop, then we need to protect the cop at all costs. Seeing as there are only three mafia, we need to be vigilant and scrutinize everything.
Gerri: what do you believe our course of action should be?
Over the next days I'll try to go through Shuhan's posts in chronological order again. I say days because the Trip is still ongoing and my laptop will only be fixed Monday.
The wording caught my attention. Nothing substantial but it was the reason I kept a close eye on him.
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Lynch Count:
With thirteen alive, it takes 7 to lynch. A lynch must be achieved. Gunkan [3]: Elisabeth Heart, Foolio, Koh
Shuhan1288 [1]: Gerri
Waffles [1]: Gunkan
Not voting [8]: Harvady Alumnus, horlianis, Shuhan1288, Silent Klaubautermann, TheManWithNoName, Waffles, Wooden_Giraffe, xasjjx -
Tell me who has suggested we look at Elisabeth? Bogart didn't die for no reason. Clearly the mafia were threatened by him, suggesting he was on to something.
You were indeed the first one to talk about Elisabeth, but I'm still wary of you, because it still seems like a very obvious point. Others before you, while they didn't talk about Elisabeth, talked about thinking about who would want Bogart dead. As well, the second point you made, about the mafia feeling threatened, was a point Foolio made earlier.
Yes Koh thought the same but he only mentioned (which I am sure you are) but I suggested we look at Elisabeth as well….how is that not contributing.
Can you complete this sentence? What are you sure I am?
And to be honest I have had it up to here with your insults towards me. Multiple times you have stated that I don't know what I'm talking about and keep insinuating that I'm clueless and stupid. Who the hell are you tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Nobody brought up Elisabeth as a candidate jerk. You think your the shit and can bully me around. I have bit my tongue not trying to blow up at you because I respect you as a competitor..but I am quickly losing that respect. I let it go this last time, don't insult my intelligence again.
I haven't insulted you, and I haven't been trying to insult you, unless you consider me accusing you of being in the mafia as an insult. I think it's odd that you're reacting this way to my "insinuations", while you have been calling people scumbags. However, this post reminded me of something. I'm going to compare you and vorlianis.
You had a couple of other posts, the only one I really care about is #5442.
Now, Gunkan~
You like fishing ? Apparently you do :)Why would you ask Waffles, what he thinks of me? Curious.
Why don't you ask me directly if there's something wrong? Very curious.I wanted to hear what he had to say because, at that point in time, his posts were all about either me or NoName, because we had accused him. I wasn't specifically interested in what he thought about you, I was more interested in what he/you had to say about the other players than you personally.
Did you not read my post? What exactly would I ask you directly? And where did it sound like I thought something was wrong? What I thought was wrong about his post was what he was saying, not what you had originally said. I think Waffles's posts make more sense when you think of him as mafia pretending to be town than legitimate town.
Stop distorting my words. Kthxbye :D
This is what I said: "Elisabeth herself has said that she plays passively, and I don't even think that's very true. Though she doesn't say who she suspects, she's definitely not as passive as she originally was. " How did I distort your words? I didn't even spend that much time talking about you, and I'm not the first one to ask "What (else) do you think about x?"
Also I don't remember insulting anyone after Bogart, let alone cursing, miss word distortion /:)
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Augh I'm almost half-way to becoming a dead fish! I think, from what Elisabeth and Koh have posted, their reasons to vote to lynch me are poor, but I won't repeat myself. And Foolio's stolen the words from my mouth, all I could say to him is to think about the time I've invested or how I've been putting myself on the line (hah more fishing humor).
I think I forgot to Hypo-Cop today. Innocent on xasjjx.
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Inno on Xas.
Innocent on xasjjx.
Facepalm
We aren't supposed to make duplicates…
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@xasjjx:
Facepalm
We aren't supposed to make duplicates…
That reminds me, are you sure that's true? Because, if we don't sparse in duplicates, wouldn't the one duplicate give away the cop? If I'm just being inept… crap, that's the second time.
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This isn't how you played last game Koh, and I'm somewhat scratching my head at how your replies, at least the ones that aren't about being confused, are very close to not being coherent.
Posting got me killed in the first day last game so im testing strategies until i find one that works to my benefit instead of me getting killed because of whether i post to little or i post to much or i just suck at posting and defending myself in general…
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This is what I said: "Elisabeth herself has said that she plays passively, and I don't even think that's very true. Though she doesn't say who she suspects, she's definitely not as passive as she originally was. " How did I distort your words? I didn't even spend that much time talking about you, and I'm not the first one to ask "What (else) do you think about x?"
Specifics ? :)
What Bogart asked was how I'd judge my play, so far. I answered "Passive".
I never said I was passive or that my play always was passive, yet you said I did quite a few times now.! @Gunkan:
! > Elisabeth Heart: What throws me off her trail is that she specifically called herself passive.
! @Gunkan:
! > Elisabeth Heart: She labelled herself as a passive player I call that distorting words.Also I don't remember insulting anyone after Bogart, let alone cursing, miss word distortion /:)
I was talking to Waffles when I asked for civil exchanges, not you.
Gunkan, I see you are making a 2nd Hypo-cop…? Good job è_è;
Now why would you do that ? -
Foolio, did you really just say we should lynch the new players one by one until we find mafia because they make your Head hurt? So what will Gunkan flipping town tell you? What will Gunkan flipping mafia tell you? Why Gunkan before Waffles, TMWNN for that matter? Add Koh if you want to. What would their flips tell you? Because I don't see how lynching the confusing ones is telling.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also Foolio, why don't you go directly after Waffles? Your posts you provided seem to indicate suspicion.
I said even all else aside, it would help straighten the town and at worst remove good distractions from the mafia. I wouldn't be saying it if none of them acted suspicious, but all of them are. And I don't necessarily want to vote them all out one by one, no. But starting with one now at least is smart in my opinion. Are you disagreeing? Do you have some amazing read or insight into how they've been acting, and can you tell me they don't look scummy or that you can discern which parts are genuine mistakes and which aren't? If so, please share.
How can you say their flips don't mean anything? A flip converts doubts and uncertainty into concrete fact. First of all if he flips scum then that's more than enough, whether or not we can draw further insight from his posts/interactions and others' suspicions, is a bonus. But if he flips town it will at least tell us he was posting his honest thoughts, which could prove insightful and useful. And again, we can examine others' interactions with him. Why am I even explaining this? It should be ridiculously obvious to you. It's no longer confusing once he's dead, so it's no different from what you gain from any other player's flip at that point.
If that seems bad to you, then you should explain why because otherwise it sounds to me like you'd either benefit from their presence or you're being myopic with your Shuhan case. What's your plan? After Shuhan, then what? Who do you think are his scum buddies? Oh right, me apparently. But so far from you we have "please please just trust me, he won't make any mistakes from now on, we have to do it now and you can kill me if I'm wrong." How do you know his posts won't lead us anywhere later? I see less urgency in that even if I say I believe you.
Why not go directly after Waffles, you ask? For one he's gotten plenty of attention already, picking his case apart, arguing with him, long exchanges. I don't feel the need to interject right now because I have nothing new or more specific to grab onto at the moment, aside from the comments I made. And there's always the same old conflict I mentioned originally with the new players.
But so then that might lead you back to your other question, why Gunkan? First of all I gave a few specific reasons including the way he was defending me. Though TMWNN did that with me too, I believe. Gunkan and TMWNN are kind of opposites. Gunkan started looking terribly suspicious and overall improved. TMWNN started out great and then he got suspicious in a hurry. Waffles has been somewhere in the middle for me the whole game. I wouldn't object to lynching any of them.
Gunkan just had the most people suspecting him, including Bogart, and I'd like to think we haven't forgotten him just because he's dead. And now he double hypo-copped. Congrats, now we have even more reason. He is useless to hypo-cop now and either slipped up out of nervousness because he's scum or laziness to check whether or not he'd hypo-copped yet, because even in his post he only "thought" he forgot. Check first maybe?
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throws a beer at every male
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Lynch Count:
With thirteen alive, it takes 7 to lynch. A lynch must be achieved. Gunkan [3]: Elisabeth Heart, Foolio, Koh
Shuhan1288 [1]: Gerri
Waffles [1]: Gunkan
Not voting [8]: Harvady Alumnus, horlianis, Shuhan1288, Silent Klaubautermann, TheManWithNoName, Waffles, Wooden_Giraffe, xasjjx -
@Shuhan1288:
The thing about day one, (considering that there was night first) is it is always plagued by useless posts. Both Waffle and TMWNN have been bickering for half a page now. Honestly something is strange about thier whole interchange…it could be quite possible we have two scumbuddies putting a show on for us...
"Throwing under the bus" is a fun little description of what is happening...
I'd toss a vote on either one of them, but they are new so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
TheManWithNoName: why are you so certain that Gerri and Heart are town?
That was the second thing. The willingness to put a vote on both of them striked me as extremely odd. I see two possibilities. TMWNN/Waffles are town and Shuhan wanted to stay flexible on who to vote. As of late I consider the option that Waffles is scum and Shuhan was trying to move some suspicion from him by also accusing TMWNN. If Waffles is his scumbuddy then Shuhan probably didn't want to risk not suspecting/defending him because it come back later to bite him.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Btw Eli, what do you think about Shuhan? If I remember my notes correctly one of the things that striked me as odd about you was that you never commented on/questioned him?
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Still trying to catch up. I didn't answer some of Foolio's questions yet. Before I do I need to correct something. When I Said I had Foolio at 40% town that was wrong. My scale goes from 0% (=town) to 100% (=mafia). I did have Foolio at 40% but that basically makes him 60% town. With that I had him in the most townie category together with Bogart, Eli and TMWNN. I did have something that bothered me for each of them though. Wanna guess what it was for Bogart. It was him calling the people that were town in my books scum.
Now, Foolio, you started the day by saying that we should follow his suspicions. In this game I see three possible main motivations for mafia killing a player: a) s/he's pursuing one of them and they hope the case will die with her/him; b) they are hoping people will think it's a) and lynch that players suspect(s); c) they think s/he's the cop. Based on my reads that makes it look like you are mafia going with b). However, it's just an option I consider. The only one I fully believe my Case and instincts about is Shuhan. Waffles and you just moved up suspicion-wise.
The other question was what I would do regarding the new players. I continue to observe them. As I said I'm willing to Bet my life on the Shuhan case. I'm not willing to make the same call regarding Waffles yet even though he is the only other lynch I could see myself going with because he fits my read on Shuhan fairly well.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Shuhan1288:
Not for nothing Gerri, but may I ask why me? And I want your answer not some contrived answer that was from other people's observations.
I am having a hard time believing the "I don't understand the set-up" excuse. Fox said this was an open set-up and that's all we really need to gleen from that. What Fox said is law, no need for confusion, anyone claiming this is just trying to get out of actually playing. If you want to get a strategy, look it up on the wiki, there are plenty of aids there. In a game like this where you have influential players like Bogart, it is needed for you to think for yourself.
I know for a fact Gerri, that you are capable of coming up with a strategy, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you never answered my question. It is moot now seeing as we now have the Hypo-Cop strategy, so you can hide behind that.
But if the hypo-cop strategy was not going to be even mentioned, what would your plan of action have been?
Shuhan's reaction to me answering Harvady's question who I'd vote and after vorlianis called him out on the TMWNN/Waffles thing. I left out those posts as well as the one where he asked Waffles for his suspects. Also, I have no issues with the things he said. I think he would react the same in this situation, no matter whether he's scum or town.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I should explain why I'd vote Shuhan. I would quote but it's a pain when I'm on my phone.
What caught my attention was the wording in his first post. Something like 'with only three mafia we need to apply extra vigilance and scrutiny'. The 'only' makes it sound like a complaint that they have it tough. Also, what if there'd be less or more mafia. Would we have to apply less or more scrutiny? It wasn't much but it caught my attention.
Next he went and stated that he'd vote either Waffles or TMWNN and kept going on about how it's maybe a trick by Mafia to bust one of their own despite them being only three. He also ignored the case against Gunkan so far. All in all, he was rather 'fluffy'.Shuhan, I did answer your question in my post right after you asked. I just didn't address you personally.
It was in the same post where I apologized for not reading properly. That Kitsune hid part of the openess in a different color and the rest in a blabla-line didn't really help. As for why I didn't search the wikis. I was traveling but then again I see no harm in asking other players for their opinion. I can still decide to Fellow it or not after hearing it.That was my original case against Shuhan. Just posting for reference. I'm heading out now.
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Hey people, this game ain't over yet.
Wooden i think you're already long finished with catching up. Say something why don't you.
Shuhan, don't got the vibe anymore or something? Or do you think you will find the scum by just checking the thread?
xasjj all that you're gonna do is do a few facepalms while you're actually wrong yourself? Lost the ability to think or something?
And haven't seen you either in a while TMWNN.
This isn't a waiting game, it's a playing game.
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You still didn't really answer most of my questions, Gerri. I'll give you a fresh list. Actually, these are good questions for anyone here to answer and talk about. Just ignore the parts that are specific to Gerri, and replace number 3 with "what do you think of Shuhan?"
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Do you agree that the game is significantly muddled/confused by the presence of 3 new players and the difficulty to read their "inexperienced" actions?
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If yes, do you think it's worth keeping them all around to "observe" while the mafia is using them as distractions AND there is a decent chance one (or more…) of them is scum? Even you suspect at least Waffles.
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I know you're dead set on Shuhan, but apart from him who would you vote? Waffles? This is also equivalent to the original question I asked you about what your plan is assuming we get rid of Shuhan. Also, what would you do if Shuhan flipped town? I know you think this is impossible but I hate tunnel vision.
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What do you think of Gunkan's second hypo-cop claim? It's at least a terrible, easy-to-prevent blunder, at worst a nervous scumtell. Do you think he's not worth lynching? As an aside, do you think Gunkan's irritation earlier was purely personal or could it have been fueled at least partially by say, being a frustrated mafia?
Anyway we have a lot of people missing still, but I don't think you can convince people of a wagon on Shuhan today. That doesn't mean we all trust him (at least not me)! But if he's mafia he's one of three, and he's far from causing the most chaos in the town. Based on MY instincts and the evidence, I'd rather focus elsewhere right now. You'd have better luck pushing for Waffles if anything, I think. If he ended up getting as much or more support than Gunkan I wouldn't have a problem.
Anyway, I don't know how much I trust your instincts if I suddenly became scummy to you by not actively pursuing Waffles or something. If I weren't on Gunkan's case right now I might be on TMWNN's, though. If he's at the top of your "seems town" list then we really disagree. As for you putting me in "scenario b" there, that's awesome. Last couple of games the mafia killed their accusers one after the other while the town sat there not so much as questioning the issue, and now I try to keep some focus on the deceased's suspect list and it makes me a mafia trying to trick the town. You'll note my vote is on Bogart's FOURTH suspect, not even one of his "big three." I don't agree with him completely either or think his opinion was The One Truth or something.
I don't know if you're mafia but you basically went all OMGUS on me when I started pushing you a bit, and now it seems you're interpreting everything in a farfetched way to make me seem dirty. But I'm sticking with my plan for now, my opinion hasn't changed on that subject.
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Btw Eli, what do you think about Shuhan? If I remember my notes correctly one of the things that striked me as odd about you was that you never commented on/questioned him?
I can't say that I think a lot about Shuhan… and Vorlianis, and Koh, and Harvady, and Wooden and so didn't comment much of them.
I feel they are being cautious, vague, kinda floating too.
I'm certain one of them is scum (which doesn't say much since I'm naming 5 players).Here are my first notes about Shuhan : "Vor vs Shu. Déjà vu much ?"
It may be stupid, but after seing them fighting so much I couldn't help but not taking it seriously~Now I see you are serious (and maybe Vor is too ?). I considered your case. I wish I could feel it too, but I don't.
I don't know what to think of you betting your life on a kill. Town move for sure. But useless :/The lack of inactivity on the thread is a perfect cover for scum. Btw, I still have the red warning telling me not to go on APF.
Hours between each posts; we lose focus and the pressure on them is lessened.
We need to get something done !Nothing changed in the last 24 hours and… only three posts ? What the hell…
I still want to hear fron Gunkan.Btw, Gerri, it kinda looks like you're protecting him.
Plus you vote-lynched him yesterday yet didn't push your case very far… -
You are right. I am kinda protecting Gunkan by now because I think he improved. I'm not forgetting what he did yesterday but right now I want to let him play. I'm also kinda protecting TMWNN because I think he's town. I don't see the point in going against players that I don't think are mafia. I will question them if they do something that seems odd though.
Foolio, I'll answer your question a bit later and probably in tranches.
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Oh, I also didn't even think of this while I was writing but Gerri WAS one of Bogart's big suspects. If he's town and simply concerned about wrongfully getting added attention, then he sure went about it a weird way, painting me as a deceiving mafia…
Kind of interesting indeed, Elisabeth, that he put a lot of early focus on Gunkan then sort of dropped off, and now is seemingly opposed to my case against him. Like I said a few posts ago, it could be interpreted as coaching, the way he told him "you seem scum," "you seem this," "are you sure you posted this in the right thread."
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OT: my laptop auto-installed Security Shield which is probably a fake program and blocking my entire computer now.
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Ah, you posted Gerri. Please do answer. Because in response to what you just said, I agree that he was improving. But his posts were heavy on words and light on insight, IMO. And the double claim took it all back down to a bad place regardless.
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I agree that quantity doesn't equal quality with Gunkan and also that him double reporting was at least thoughtless. I'm not sure what to make of it though.
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At any rate I have to go. Some more parting questions.
Vor, you have been prodding people and asking stuff, but I haven't seen a real opinion from you yourself recently. Care to share?
I re-read the day so far and Waffles, you have been indirectly pushing very hard with the Gunkan/Elisabeth connection, but planting ideas passively with sarcastic pondering and questions such as "coincidence?" Yet you have yet to put down a vote, and I haven't seen you really build an argument against either player other than that one defended the other, and "passive play is suspicious" (which is funny because you are being rather passive yourself at the moment). Care to share some thoughts that are a bit more direct and solid? Perhaps dare to believe something and admit it?
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So, apparently, this site has malware.
I am at a Laptop now, I don't really care if this computer gets infested with viruses.
Will reread soon
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@Foolio I hear what your saying bro. At one point I was dead certain that Elisabeth and Gunkan were working together for reasons previously stated. However to be honest Elisabeth's vote against Gunkan completely threw me for a loop. Right now I'm being attentive and reconsidering everything. But it's hard to get a read on people especially those who hardly post at all. I'm looking at you Wooden, why don't you comment more? Just curious because you were very active on Survivor. I know your a smart guy and it would be good to hear some of your thoughts.
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Lynch Count:
With thirteen alive, it takes 7 to lynch. A lynch must be achieved. Gunkan [3]: Elisabeth Heart, Foolio, Koh
Shuhan1288 [1]: Gerri
Waffles [1]: Gunkan
Not voting [8]: Harvady Alumnus, horlianis, Shuhan1288, Silent Klaubautermann, TheManWithNoName, Waffles, Wooden_Giraffe, xasjjx -
trapped! I feel lonely
on my couchin the graveyard. :( -
curls up on Huschel's couch
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So, apparently, this site has malware.
I am at a Laptop now, I don't really care if this computer gets infested with viruses.
Will reread soon
The site should be safe really
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@Elisabeth:
Specifics ? :)
What Bogart asked was how I'd judge my play, so far. I answered "Passive".
I never said I was passive or that my play always was passive, yet you said I did quite a few times now.
I call that distorting words.The point I was trying to make in those posts was that it's weird for somebody else to target you for being passive because you called yourself passive ("My play? Passive"). Of all people, mrs. nitpicky, you should have noticed that I haven't been arguing that you are a passive player. Otherwise, this comment wouldn't make sense:
Elisabeth herself has said that she plays passively, and I don't even think that's very true. Though she doesn't say who she suspects, she's definitely not as passive as she originally was.
I was talking to Waffles when I asked for civil exchanges, not you.
Oh, that clears things up.
Gunkan, I see you are making a 2nd Hypo-cop…? Good job è_è;
Now why would you do that ?Crap. That was just incredibly stupid of me, I can't really say anything more about that.
Is that all you wanted to hear from me, E.H.?
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xasjj all that you're gonna do is do a few facepalms while you're actually wrong yourself? Lost the ability to think or something?
How am I wrong if I haven't commented on the game?
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So wait, because I hypo-copped twice, which one counts? Jesus, I just screwed everything up didn't I?
I said earlier that I was going to compare Waffles and vorlianis; I reviewed their posts, and I'm keeping my vote on Waffles.
I think enough time has elapsed to do this again:
Foolio: I figure the only way I'll find something suspicious about him is if I zoom out. One thing that sort of stands out is that you don't seem to suspect Elisabeth. Why not, if you suspect everyone else Bogart accused?
Hmm, seems like I picked the wrong person to look at first, because the rest of what you said seems like a reasonable argument, including your reasons to vote to lynch me. Also I can't really answer your 4 questions, as I am Gunkan and a new player. On Shuhan I don't get why he's still voting to lynch TMWNN, but I guess it doesn't really matter because TMWNN probably isn't going to be lynched anyways today. And I already mentioned that I hypo-copped twice out of ineptitude; I don't get how that could be attributed to nervousness.
Come to think of it, it's probably a bad idea to try to write something on every individual, because I haven't done a good job of thinking about the mafia as a whole.
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Just got off work, I'll be back in about 45 minutes or so to catch up when I get home.
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You still didn't really answer most of my questions, Gerri. I'll give you a fresh list. Actually, these are good questions for anyone here to answer and talk about. Just ignore the parts that are specific to Gerri, and replace number 3 with "what do you think of Shuhan?"
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Do you agree that the game is significantly muddled/confused by the presence of 3 new players and the difficulty to read their "inexperienced" actions?
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If yes, do you think it's worth keeping them all around to "observe" while the mafia is using them as distractions AND there is a decent chance one (or more…) of them is scum? Even you suspect at least Waffles.
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I know you're dead set on Shuhan, but apart from him who would you vote? Waffles? This is also equivalent to the original question I asked you about what your plan is assuming we get rid of Shuhan. Also, what would you do if Shuhan flipped town? I know you think this is impossible but I hate tunnel vision.
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What do you think of Gunkan's second hypo-cop claim? It's at least a terrible, easy-to-prevent blunder, at worst a nervous scumtell. Do you think he's not worth lynching? As an aside, do you think Gunkan's irritation earlier was purely personal or could it have been fueled at least partially by say, being a frustrated mafia?
Anyway we have a lot of people missing still, but I don't think you can convince people of a wagon on Shuhan today. That doesn't mean we all trust him (at least not me)! But if he's mafia he's one of three, and he's far from causing the most chaos in the town. Based on MY instincts and the evidence, I'd rather focus elsewhere right now. You'd have better luck pushing for Waffles if anything, I think. If he ended up getting as much or more support than Gunkan I wouldn't have a problem.
Anyway, I don't know how much I trust your instincts if I suddenly became scummy to you by not actively pursuing Waffles or something. If I weren't on Gunkan's case right now I might be on TMWNN's, though. If he's at the top of your "seems town" list then we really disagree. As for you putting me in "scenario b" there, that's awesome. Last couple of games the mafia killed their accusers one after the other while the town sat there not so much as questioning the issue, and now I try to keep some focus on the deceased's suspect list and it makes me a mafia trying to trick the town. You'll note my vote is on Bogart's FOURTH suspect, not even one of his "big three." I don't agree with him completely either or think his opinion was The One Truth or something.
I don't know if you're mafia but you basically went all OMGUS on me when I started pushing you a bit, and now it seems you're interpreting everything in a farfetched way to make me seem dirty. But I'm sticking with my plan for now, my opinion hasn't changed on that subject.
1)Gunkan seems to have formed up plenty although he still kinda freaked out about his second hypocop report he's shaping up.
About TMWNN i think you're massively assuming something. This isn't his first game by any stretch, maybe first AP game but he seems experienced+ he mentioned other mafia sites before. He is not new at all.
Waffles seems like the only player who is inexperienced and isn't completely sure of himself yet. This isn't an insult in any way Waffles, you're actually doing pretty good as well considering you're new.
For the hell of it i'm including Koh in this. Koh seems to be….. trying out what he can do and what he cannot do to be honest. He seems unsure of himself as well. If you read this Koh no need to feel unsure, last game there were some things we just couldn't consider. I know all these big posts and such seem intimidating , i would feel the same if i were you. But you can ask, attack, etc. as long as they're on solid grounds you're not doing anything wrong.To be honest i feel like i'm being a little too merciful towards new players >.>
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Meh, i stated my opinion about him before. Since then nothing really hasn't been added since there's nothing to add... waiting for him to get back now like he said and see what he will say....
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I know it's a horrible mistake and all but care to tell me why it's a scum tell? I mean by default if he was mafia the mafia know that he isn't cop at all. If anything mafia knows now that he isn't cop at all. Not that this exempts him from being mafia.
@Elisabeth:
I can't say that I think a lot about Shuhan… and Vorlianis, and Koh, and Harvady, and Wooden and so didn't comment much of them.
I feel they are being cautious, vague, kinda floating too.
I'm certain one of them is scum (which doesn't say much since I'm naming 5 players).Here are my first notes about Shuhan : "Vor vs Shu. Déjà vu much ?"
It may be stupid, but after seing them fighting so much I couldn't help but not taking it seriously~Now I see you are serious (and maybe Vor is too ?). I considered your case. I wish I could feel it too, but I don't.
I don't know what to think of you betting your life on a kill. Town move for sure. But useless :/The lack of inactivity on the thread is a perfect cover for scum. Btw, I still have the red warning telling me not to go on APF.
Hours between each posts; we lose focus and the pressure on them is lessened.
We need to get something done !Nothing changed in the last 24 hours and… only three posts ? What the hell…
I still want to hear fron Gunkan.Btw, Gerri, it kinda looks like you're protecting him.
Plus you vote-lynched him yesterday yet didn't push your case very far…I am serious about Shuhan, it may seem silly in light of our history but i think he is scum. I am curious though, what are your
scumodaspecial Heart reads on who is mafia? I always enjoy seeing them~OT: my laptop auto-installed Security Shield which is probably a fake program and blocking my entire computer now.
I PMed you how to get rid of it ASAP, i had the same.
At any rate I have to go. Some more parting questions.
Vor, you have been prodding people and asking stuff, but I haven't seen a real opinion from you yourself recently. Care to share?
That's the problem… i am having a lack of an opinion and suddenly because Bogart is six feet under it gets quiet..... ok yeah virus and stuff but the threat is gone. People can't keep hiding forever.
Silent still hasn't been replaced as well.... i know the mods can't help this but i feel like there are too many unknowns , too many questions unanswered and stuff for me to form a proper opinion beyond my suspicion on Shuhan.
Xas is actually pretty blatant about it, he's active and he says no relevant thing at all. What the hell?
So, apparently, this site has malware.
I am at a Laptop now, I don't really care if this computer gets infested with viruses.
Will reread soon
Threat is gone, google just reports AP as a site with malware… they're just being, dumb pay it no mind.
@xasjjx:
How am I wrong if I haven't commented on the game?
What about the part where you said we shouldn't post duplicate reports? Hell even if you didn't say that you're a player and you're not playing! What kinda logic is that?
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- Do you agree that the game is significantly muddled/confused by the presence of 3 new players and the difficulty to read their "inexperienced" actions?
I think the new players are sometimes hard to read but I think it's mostly to do with them being new. They aren't really aware of things that are considered scumtells and they've done them left and right. I believe I already said I don't believe in textbook scumtells though because experienced players know how to avoid them. So turning the scenario around. Do I believe a day 1 with only experienced and active players wouldn't have been muddled/confusing. No, I don't. I actually think it was overall the best day 1 in any game I played so far. Discussions were pretty active and suspicions and votes were everywhere. The new players had there part in contributing to it even if it was sometimes just by doing mistakes that triggered discussions. Now, the tricky part is figuring out the motivations behind all the posts but that's difficult with all of the players, be they experienced or not.
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What about the part where you said we shouldn't post duplicate reports? Hell even if you didn't say that you're a player and you're not playing! What kinda logic is that?
Bogart said we shouldn't duplicate right here:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=32935&page=264&p=2392704&viewfull=1#post2392704