How is she not a top tier fighter? She became a Shichibukai after one year of sailing.
To be fair, so could have Ace. Thr WG just got lucky with her, though.
Shichibukai strength
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@Cloud:
Agreed. I think people underestimate Hancock, all current evidence suggests that if she fights seriously there aren't too many people that could handle it. pre or post time skip.
Nope, Hancock is around mid shichibukai level, i say Jimbei can beat her.
Mihawk, Doflamingo and Kuma should destroy her.Croc would have a hard time but will ultimately beat her.
She's not that strong.
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I understand its the point of this thread, but its very pointless to say one shichibukai is stronger than another. At least admit that its all speculation, but just saying that someone is weak and someone else is strong makes it sound like we actually know it.
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But since you included Crocodile, BB, and Moria, (all of which are no longer in the Shichibukai, if I remember correctly :o), shouldn't Kuma be put in there as well? xD
well actually i started reading the first page then posted so i thought that those count too
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People actually thought that Pacifista were actually a threat to top tiers? It was obvious that they were nothing more than fodder to top tiers, considering that Hancock off-paneled a dozen of them and she isn't even a top tier fighter.
IIRC, she was ONLY able to do that because they identified her as an ally and could not hurt her
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I still fail to see how people place Don as a Top tier or say he is Admiral level. He held Joz back because his power allowed them, but then is apparently on par with Croc since Croc's logia apparently protects him from wires. Obviously Don should be far more dangerous than Croc but if Oda wanted to imply he was top tier there would be no question or debate.
Who knows? We really can't judge DoFlamingo in that war, for two reasons
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His personality was fun-loving throughout the whole thing, he was joking around, not going for a kill
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The war only showed some moments with him, who knows how his fight with Crocodile ended? Chances are, it ended with DoFlamingo getting bored of his fight and having fun with someone else
@Muda:
Not only what Ryuksgelus mentioned, but he also controlled Bellamy and Sarquiss back on Jaya…
No
We've seen him control Sarquiss, Bellamy may have been just weakened
And one of the Marines was out of control, the other seemed to be just defending himselfThere's no absolute proof he was controlling 2 people
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LOL @people saying Hancock is "not so strong"
Fact: single kick = half body turned to stone = near death state.
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Who knows? We really can't judge DoFlamingo in that war, for two reasons
- His personality was fun-loving throughout the whole thing, he was joking around, not going for a kill
Fun loving doesn't mean not fighting seriously. Plenty of times in fiction its the opportunity to go all out that gets fighters excited. Was Teach not happy as shit when fighting seriously? Moria was having fun till the very end to yet he doesn't get cred for it. Don actually did get hurt if you look at his face. Smiling is not a measure of how much effort somebody was putting into a fight.
- The war only showed some moments with him, who knows how his fight with Crocodile ended? Chances are, it ended with DoFlamingo getting bored of his fight and having fun with someone else
Those moments are all we have to judge with. You just don't dismiss them and say its equally as likely those moments were minimal showings instead instead of what he is generally capable of doing. How his fight with Crocodile ended doesn't matter and you're making a baseless assumption of how it did end. No clearer than how Marco&Akainu's final class ended.
Fact is Oda showed Crocodile able to keep up with him in close combat due to the fruit being ineffective. Don even had a serious face typically indicating frustration or that he wasn't having fun. If he wanted to get the point across that Don is someone remotely as fearsome as the Admirals he would have made it extremely clear.
He did so with Garp knocking WB's strongest fighter away then scarring every pirate that he was about to enter the battle, made it plainly clear with Akainu, we see Ben Beckman is enough of a threat to make an Admiral pause and reacess the situation, Mihawk's slashes are above and beyond anything other warlords level fighters can do barring Ursa Shock, SA, and Entei, finishing moves;Sengoku made all the WB pirates cough blood with a single attack. Stop acting like Don showings are vague and its still a possibility he is on or slightly beneath these guys Oda makes sure we understand are world class threats.
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Fun loving doesn't mean not fighting seriously. Plenty of times in fiction its the opportunity to go all out that gets fighters excited. Was Teach not happy as shit when fighting seriously? Moria was having fun till the very end to yet he doesn't get cred for it. Don actually did get hurt if you look at his face. Smiling is not a measure of how much effort somebody was putting into a fight.
Meh, personally, I don't see it, I just see the guy flying around, joking around without actually being worried for his life, he seems to consider himself as a completely neutral party of the war, that has nothing to worry about, and just wants to see shit fly
Those moments are all we have to judge with. You just don't dismiss them and say its equally as likely those moments were minimal showings instead instead of what he is generally capable of doing. How his fight with Crocodile ended doesn't matter and you're making a baseless assumption of how it did end. No clearer than how Marco&Akainu's final class ended.
Fact is Oda showed Crocodile able to keep up with him in close combat due to the fruit being ineffective. Don even had a serious face typically indicating frustration or that he wasn't having fun. If he wanted to get the point across that Don is someone remotely as fearsome as the Admirals he would have made it extremely clear.
He did so with Garp knocking WB's strongest fighter away then scarring every pirate that he was about to enter the battle, made it plainly clear with Akainu, we see Ben Beckman is enough of a threat to make an Admiral pause and reacess the situation, Mihawk's slashes are above and beyond anything other warlords level fighters can do barring Ursa Shock, SA, and Entei, finishing moves;Sengoku made all the WB pirates cough blood with a single attack. Stop acting like Don showings are vague and its still a possibility he is on or slightly beneath these guys Oda makes sure we understand are world class threats.
Nah, you're clearly over reacting here, dude
What we've seen was DoFlamingo being blasted and then stomping Crocodile's hookWe also saw Mihawk slashing Crocodile's hook
Does this mean Mihawk is also not as strong as we think, and almost on the same level as Crocodile?
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Meh, personally, I don't see it, I just see the guy flying around, joking around without actually being worried for his life, he seems to consider himself as a completely neutral party of the war, that has nothing to worry about, and just wants to see shit fly
This is relevant to his overall power level how? Using his attitude as a point for him being near or at Admiral level is reaching. Oh he was smiling so he must have been using the bare minimum of his ability. No damn well that point doesn't hold up in a conversation.
Nah, you're clearly over reacting here, dude
What we've seen was DoFlamingo being blasted and then stomping Crocodile's hookWe also saw Mihawk slashing Crocodile's hook
Does this mean Mihawk is also not as strong as we think, and almost on the same level as Crocodile?
Overacting? I'm simply stating that Croc isn't so beneath Don that he'd avoid or couldn't confront him in a direct confrontation. If Don was near top tier Oda wouldn't bother putting Croc into such situations.
Unlike Mihawk or Akainu who he attacked from behind. His rear attack failed against Mihawk and before Akainu reformed he got with the WB pirates, knowing his place. Don Also didn't stomp Crocodile hook, he clashed with it showing us that he fights in close quarters with his legs.
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Reason: Moria got beaten 3 times, by luffy jinbei and doflamingo
Lol just saw this.Moria got beaten only from Doflamingo and an army of pacifistas who were assisting him.With Luffy it was a tie since both of them were Ko'ed in the end of the battle and with Jimbei it surely wasn't 1 hit KO as we saw in the anime if u have u would have noticed that.But if u consider that KO then Jimbei got also 1hit KO'ed by Mihawk and if Ivankov had abandoned the battle against Kuma after the galaxy wink ,then Kuma would have been KOed as well according to u.
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Fun loving doesn't mean not fighting seriously. Plenty of times in fiction its the opportunity to go all out that gets fighters excited. Was Teach not happy as shit when fighting seriously? Moria was having fun till the very end to yet he doesn't get cred for it. Don actually did get hurt if you look at his face. Smiling is not a measure of how much effort somebody was putting into a fight.
It just isn't the fun. It's the flippancy and the 'I don't care' attitude that Doflamingo portrays in battle. The examples that you took, Teach and Moria, do get serious when they attack seriously. Teach was mighty serious in his battle with Ace. Moria was very serious in his meeting with Kuma (where he knew that the man facing him is at least as strong as him). None of these characters would openly go 'zehahaha' or 'kishishishi' when cutting off the leg of a monstrous giant. Turning your argument on it's head, Oda would not give him this level of badassery for nothing.
Here's a playground analogy to explain things better. Teach comes off as the kid who enjoys a challenge. Moria comes off as the bored lazy kid who likes watching his minions squash his enemies. Dofla comes off as the crazy kid laughing maniacally in a playground brawl, pausing once every now and then to own someone. He's an unpredictable psychopath and that adds to his danger and his aura.Those moments are all we have to judge with. You just don't dismiss them and say its equally as likely those moments were minimal showings instead instead of what he is generally capable of doing. How his fight with Crocodile ended doesn't matter and you're making a baseless assumption of how it did end. No clearer than how Marco&Akainu's final class ended.
Fact is Oda showed Crocodile able to keep up with him in close combat due to the fruit being ineffective. Don even had a serious face typically indicating frustration or that he wasn't having fun. If he wanted to get the point across that Don is someone remotely as fearsome as the Admirals he would have made it extremely clear.
He did so with Garp knocking WB's strongest fighter away then scarring every pirate that he was about to enter the battle, made it plainly clear with Akainu, we see Ben Beckman is enough of a threat to make an Admiral pause and reacess the situation, Mihawk's slashes are above and beyond anything other warlords level fighters can do barring Ursa Shock, SA, and Entei, finishing moves;Sengoku made all the WB pirates cough blood with a single attack. Stop acting like Don showings are vague and its still a possibility he is on or slightly beneath these guys Oda makes sure we understand are world class threats.
Would you say that Zoro and Shuu were of a similar level when they fought?
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@cooldud_21:
It just isn't the fun. It's the flippancy and the 'I don't care' attitude that Doflamingo portrays in battle. The examples that you took, Teach and Moria, do get serious when they attack seriously. Teach was mighty serious in his battle with Ace. Moria was very serious in his meeting with Kuma (where he knew that the man facing him is at least as strong as him). None of these characters would openly go 'zehahaha' or 'kishishishi' when cutting off the leg of a monstrous giant. Turning your argument on it's head, Oda would not give him this level of badassery for nothing.
What? Blackbeard was grinning and laughing all through the battle with Ace, even at the final attack. Moria laughed after spearing Oars Junior. Both were having a great time during the war, your comparison doesn't work at all.
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What? Blackbeard was grinning and laughing all through the battle with Ace, even at the final attack. Moria laughed after spearing Oars Junior. Both were having a great time during the war, your comparison doesn't work at all.
My comparison is subtle. There is a difference between a smiling disposition and maniacal laughter. All I am saying is that Dofla's laugh is cynical and very sinister. Think Comedian from Watchmen, or Joker from Batman.
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@cooldud_21:
My comparison is subtle. There is a difference between a smiling disposition and maniacal laughter. All I am saying is that Dofla's laugh is cynical and very sinister. Think Comedian from Watchmen, or Joker from Batman.
I would agree that Dofla's more of a maniac, but that is saying nothing about his abilities, it's just another face of confidence. As it was already said, what was shown of him in the war hasn't hinted at him being a standout in terms of strength. Imo I think his knowledge and connections is what he will be most notable for.
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Like I said these guys are reaching using his attitude and demeanor as a power indicator.
Bringing up Shuu is dumb. Exhausted Zoro surprised by a DF user in the middle of a gauntlet of marines only to take him out immediately afterward is completely different than examples of strong guys proving their top tier status and Oda not portraying Croc as being out of Don's league like he did with Akainu. Nice try turning Croc into Shuu.
You people claiming he is top tier really believe he won't be taken down till the end of the series like Akainu and Teach. Sorry but he can very well be the next villain or one right after that. Only way he makes it close to the end is if he is more than what he seems like Chinmei in SDK.
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So what? That doesn't prove anything.
Huh? What the hell do you mean it doesn't prove anything? After one campaign she got an 80 million bounty and was offered shichibukai status, all i can say is that is one hell of a feat.
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And the way DoFlamingo talked with both Sengoku and Tsuru seemed to high imply he doesn't give a fuck and could just murder them right here
Once again, what we are both saying neither proves that he is Top Tier or Mid Tier
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Huh? What the hell do you mean it doesn't prove anything? After one campaign she got an 80 million bounty and was offered shichibukai status, all i can say is that is one hell of a feat.
I never said that it wasn't a good feat. I said that it =/= top tier.
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And the way DoFlamingo talked with both Sengoku and Tsuru seemed to high imply he doesn't give a fuck and could just murder them right here
Once again, what we are both saying neither proves that he is Top Tier or Mid Tier
He didn't say anything to Tsuru iirc and while his words to Sengoku were somewhat suggestive we have far more suggesting Sengoku > Doflamingo.
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About this Doflamingo's first appear.
… Well, i dont think that Oda introduced us character with unbelieveable bounty only to show instantly that he is weaker than some old veteran marine granny.. :P -
I never said that it wasn't a good feat. I said that it =/= top tier.
She has mastered Haōshoku, what top tiers such as Shanks, Rayleigh and Whitebeard have. They way Oda is making Haki out to be something that drastically increases someones power level, thinking that Hancock isn't top tier is ridiculous
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She has mastered Haōshoku,
This was never stated. Don't make things up now.
what top tiers such as Shanks, Rayleigh and Whitebeard have.
So does Luffy. I guess he's a top-tier now amirite?
They way Oda is making Haki out to be something that drastically increases someones power level, thinking that Hancock isn't top tier is ridiculous
And yet she doesn't have a single feat indicating her top tier-ness. Yeah, it sure is ridiculous to think that she's not top tier…
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How do you know that?
At best we only know she HAS CoC, since it was mentioned when Luffy used his in the arena. I don't recall and examples of her using haki, though.
Hell, I can't even figure out how she petrified the Pacifistas, since they shouldn't even be capable of love.
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Hell, I can't even figure out how she petrified the Pacifistas, since they shouldn't even be capable of love.
Neither are the canon balls and Smoker's juttte.
Perfume fumor and Slave Arrows don't require lust.
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This was never stated. Don't make things up now.
So does Luffy. I guess he's a top-tier now amirite?
And yet she doesn't have a single feat indicating her top tier-ness. Yeah, it sure is ridiculous to think that she's not top tier…
She is 31, has King's haki. I wouldn't be surprised if it manifested itself at an early age. She probably has close to mastery of King's Haki.
Yeah he is :getlost: He was taught the basics by Rayleigh, doesn't mean he is a master already after 2 years training
No, but there are certain factors about her which show that she is
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She is 31, has King's haki. I wouldn't be surprised if it manifested itself at an early age. She probably has close to mastery of King's Haki.
You're grasping for straws now.
Yeah he is :getlost: He was taught the basics by Rayleigh, doesn't mean he is a master already after 2 years training
Rayleigh finished teaching him in 1 1/2 years. Seriously, Hancock kicked to Smoker, and that was infused and powered up by haki and it didn't do shit to him, however Jozu (a real top-tier fighter unlike Hancock) was making Crocodile bleed like crazy. And Croc even complimented him, something someone as arrogant as himself would never do.
Seriously having CoC doesn't automatically make you a top tier. The Admirals don't have it, and they'd defeat Hancock. Rayleigh has CoC, yet he was losing to Kizaru, someone who doesn't have it.
No, but there are certain factors about her which show that she is
Yeah and why don't you name some of them?
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You're grasping for straws now.
Rayleigh finished teaching him in 1 1/2 years. Seriously, Hancock kicked to Smoker, and that was infused and powered up by haki and it didn't do shit to him, however Jozu (a real top-tier fighter unlike Hancock) was making Crocodile bleed like crazy. And Croc even complimented him, something someone as arrogant as himself would never do.
Seriously having CoC doesn't automatically make you a top tier. The Admirals don't have it, and they'd defeat Hancock. Rayleigh has CoC, yet he was losing to Kizaru, someone who doesn't have it.
Yeah and why don't you name some of them?
Really?
Obviously getting hit with one of the hardest materials from someone who has shown the greatest feat of strength is going to hurt, the haki being used to negate the devil fruit. She could have just kicked him to get him off Luffy, she did later kick his jutte (?) which broke.
Where was it shown that Rayleigh was losing to Kizaru?
She has King's Haki, which she has most likely mastered or near to, got given shichibukai status after one campaign
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@S.C.:
Wasn't that a minstranslation with the correct line that it was Luffy instead who did not?
Correct, we do not know whether or not Hancock has mastered her Sovereign Haki. All that was mentioned was that Luffy has no control over his.
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Sengoku and every single person who's seen her has acknowledged Hancock's strength.
Hancock demolished an entire army of Pacifistas, when Sanji nearly broke his leg kicking one, she can clearly hit logias, and shatter people with a single hit - what part of this convinces people that Hancock is weak.
I fundamentally do NOT understand it.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
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Really?
Yes.
She could have just kicked him to get him off Luffy,
Weak excuse, considering that she was bloodlusted like crazy, and still failed to produce any damage, some top tier she is…
Not to mention I could easily say that Jozu was merely trying to get Croc away from the WB Pirates.
she did later kick his jutte (?) which broke.
Is that supposed to be impressive or something?
Where was it shown that Rayleigh was losing to Kizaru?
When he was panting, showing that he was starting to get tired.
She has King's Haki, which she has most likely mastered or near to, got given shichibukai status after one campaign
None of these prove that she's a top tier fighter.
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This thread is going worse every day…
I thought that Moria vs. Croc discussion while ago was bad, but these new things out here make my facepalm o'meter to go over 9000.Doflamingo is weaker than Tsuru?
Hancock is not top tier?
Rayleigh was losing to Kizaru?I understand some theories and predictions, but these ones make absolutely no sense. Like i would start to insist something like that luffy and foxy were nearly equals, because foxy caused serious damage to luffy. Yeah right.
I think that people seriously need more new chapters which they could talk about, because it starts to seem like every page and panel and pixel of old chapters are analyzed throughoutly and everything clever and possible has already been said of them.
After that, people start to imply nonsense and fight each other about their theories. And worst thing is that the reality of those theories depends STRAIGHTLY if reader personally likes them or not. Or then they start to argue about same things that have been argued million times before. And the endless cyckle is ready.Caven-bitch
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This thread is going worse every day…
I thought that Moria vs. Croc discussion while ago was bad, but these new things out here make my facepalm o'meter to go over 9000.Doflamingo is weaker than Tsuru?
Hancock is not top tier?
Rayleigh was losing to Kizaru?I understand some theories and predictions, but these ones make absolutely no sense. Like i would start to insist something like that luffy and foxy were nearly equals, because foxy caused serious damage to luffy. Yeah right.
I think that people seriously need more new chapters which they could talk about, because it starts to seem like every page and panel and pixel of old chapters are analyzed throughoutly and everything clever and possible has already been said of them.
After that, people start to imply nonsense and fight each other about their theories. And worst thing is that the reality of those theories depends STRAIGHTLY if reader personally likes them or not. Or then they start to argue about same things that have been argued million times before. And the endless cyckle is ready.**You still haven't given me one good reason why Tsuru can't be stronger than Doflaimingo.
Nor have you ever given a sinlge good reason as to why Hancock has to be a top-tier.
Fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason Tsuru can't be stronger than Doflamingo an there's absolutely no reason Hancock has to be a top-tier. Neither Doflamingo or Hancock are confirmed top-tiers so until it is confirmed it's still up in the air. That's all there is to it.**
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**You still haven't given me one good reason why Tsuru can't be stronger than Doflaimingo.
Nor have you ever given a sinlge good reason as to why Hancock has to be a top-tier.
Fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no reason Tsuru can't be stronger than Doflamingo an there's absolutely no reason Hancock has to be a top-tier. Neither Doflamingo or Hancock are confirmed top-tiers so until it is confirmed it's still up in the air. That's all there is to it.**
Ok. What i think:
Doflamingo-Tsuru thing:
First thing is Doflamingos bounty. He was considered VERY big threat to WG, and before anyone says that it's not sure if it is about his actual strength or not, it is.
why?
Because, if he could have been defeated by just vice admiral (which Tsuru is, and i seriously doubt she is even the top-tier amongst them.) A big bounty like that wouldnt have been necessary. They would have just sent some VA to catch him. And not to forget that Dofla have been pirate AT LEAST from Rogers execution. And it was shown SO CLEARLY in WB war that Dofla havent still fought seriously and yet in all his fights he have at least LOOKED like he have had upper hand and have been just playing against his enemies. He had so minimal effort when attacking against Oars Jr. (who btw beated also a VA, and i think that giant VA is stronger than Tsuru) or Joz or Atmos, and those three were really having a hard time against him. (in fact, they were unable to do anything against him.)
Damn, of course every shichibukai is stronger than VA, otherwise the Younkou-marine-shichibukai-balance would make NO SENSE! Dofla would have also been capable of making those marine officers seriously harm each other in marirejois, and the words Tsuru said to him were simply meant to calm him down. Doflas attitude would be MUCH different if he really would lose half of the marine officers. In that case, he would have cried and hided when the war began.
I would have still much arguments about this, i just started and made it short and fast. but, to the next thing.Hancock.
Hancock earned that bounty with ONE SINGLE CAMPAING. Whatever she did, that was enough to WG set that kind of Big bounty upon him immediatly, as well as offer her shichibukai status. Once again, if she would really be weak they wouldnt have done either of those things.
One reason to those is that Kuja's were overally very dangerous group against WG and amongst other pirates back then, and Hancock is clearly superior to any of her subordinates. Smoker was also having hard time against her.
Why?
Hancock started fight by destroying Smokers weapon. Then she kicked her around the battlefield. Smoker tried to chase luffy, Hancock prevented him and fought against him long time and still took no single damage.
And if someone calls Smoker weak by any chance, HUGE LOL.Hancocks beauty is also one of her greatest weapon, its not just some running gag where soldiers cant fight against her and their eyes turn to hearts and woooo!<3
It is thing that PREVENTS MOST OF SOLDIERS MAKING EVEN A SINGLE ATTACK AGAINST HER, even if she are pounding them half dead. Even Momonga was nearly defeated ACCIDENTALLY against her, only his knowledge, experience, and fast reactions saved him.
Also, if Hancock manages to land even one of those petrifying kicks against her enemy, its game over to them.
Is this enough already? im tired of writing.Caven-bitch
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Ok. What i think:
Doflamingo-Tsuru thing:
First thing is Doflamingos bounty. He was considered VERY big threat to WG, and before anyone says that it's not sure if it is about his actual strength or not, it is.
why?
Because, if he could have been defeated by just vice admiral (which Tsuru is, and i seriously doubt she is even the top-tier amongst them.) A big bounty like that wouldnt have been necessary. They would have just sent some VA to catch him. And not to forget that Dofla have been pirate AT LEAST from Rogers execution. And it was shown SO CLEARLY in WB war that Dofla havent still fought seriously and yet in all his fights he have at least LOOKED like he have had upper hand and have been just playing against his enemies. He had so minimal effort when attacking against Oars Jr. (who btw beated also a VA, and i think that giant VA is stronger than Tsuru) or Joz or Atmos, and those three were really having a hard time against him. (in fact, they were unable to do anything against him.)
Damn, of course every shichibukai is stronger than VA, otherwise the Younkou-marine-shichibukai-balance would make NO SENSE! Dofla would have also been capable of making those marine officers seriously harm each other in marirejois, and the words Tsuru said to him were simply meant to calm him down. Doflas attitude would be MUCH different if he really would lose half of the marine officers. In that case, he would have cried and hided when the war began.
I would have still much arguments about this, i just started and made it short and fast. but, to the next thing.A 340 million bounty is not a very big threat to the WG, it's a fodder level bounty to the top-tiers. Let's not forget that Luffy got a bigger bounty (400 million) when he was much weaker than his current self. And lol…."just" a VA. The VA are some of the strongest fighters in the Marines, they are by no means pushovers and Tsuru has been implied at being one of the stronger ones. The argument that "they could have just sent some VA" to catch him is not a good one, they could do that to 99.9% of pirates out there, including Luffy, but they don't because it's just not that simple. How long he's been a pirate doesn't matter, Moria has been a pirate for the same length of time but he's still not a top-tier. Same with Croc or Buggy. The argument that all Schichbukai must be stronger than all VAs is also an extremely stupid and incorrect one.
Hancock.
Hancock earned that bounty with ONE SINGLE CAMPAING. Whatever she did, that was enough to WG set that kind of Big bounty upon him immediatly, as well as offer her shichibukai status. Once again, if she would really be weak they wouldnt have done either of those things.
One reason to those is that Kuja's were overally very dangerous group against WG and amongst other pirates back then, and Hancock is clearly superior to any of her subordinates. Smoker was also having hard time against her.
Why?
Hancock started fight by destroying Smokers weapon. Then she kicked her around the battlefield. Smoker tried to chase luffy, Hancock prevented him and fought against him long time and still took no single damage.
And if someone calls Smoker weak by any chance, HUGE LOL.Hancocks beauty is also one of her greatest weapon, its not just some running gag where soldiers cant fight against her and their eyes turn to hearts and woooo!<3
It is thing that PREVENTS MOST OF SOLDIERS MAKING EVEN A SINGLE ATTACK AGAINST HER, even if she are pounding them half dead. Even Momonga was nearly defeated ACCIDENTALLY against her, only his knowledge, experience, and fast reactions saved him.
Also, if Hancock manages to land even one of those petrifying kicks against her enemy, its game over to them.
Is this enough already? im tired of writing.**While getting a bounty of 80 million with a single campaign is impressive, it says nothing of her current strength. Just her potential. Making Smoker look like fodder doesn't make you a top-tier, there were likely hundreds if not thousands of people in the world that could do so pre-skip. Doesn't mean they are all top-tiers. Being hot doesn't make you a top-tier and neither does making Momonga look like bad.
Seriously, you haven't given me one legitimate reason. Just a bunch of BS.**
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A 340 million bounty is not a very big threat to the WG, it's a fodder level bounty to the top-tiers. Let's not forget that Luffy got a bigger bounty (400 million) when he was much weaker than his current self. And lol…."just" a VA. The VA are some of the strongest fighters in the Marines, they are by no means pushovers and Tsuru has been implied at being one of the stronger ones. The argument that "they could have just sent some VA" to catch him is not a good one, they could do that to 99.9% of pirates out there, including Luffy, but they don't because it's just not that simple. How long he's been a pirate doesn't matter, Moria has been a pirate for the same length of time but he's still not a top-tier. Same with Croc or Buggy. The argument that all Schichbukai must be stronger than all VAs is also an extremely stupid and incorrect one.
**While getting a bounty of 80 million with a single campaign is impressive, it says nothing of her current strength. Just her potential. Making Smoker look like fodder doesn't make you a top-tier, there were likely hundreds if not thousands of people in the world that could do so pre-skip. Doesn't mean they are all top-tiers. Being hot doesn't make you a top-tier and neither does making Momonga look like bad.
Seriously, you haven't given me one legitimate reason. Just a bunch of BS.**
I i recall, Tsuru was called Strategist. Also, other marine officers were worried about her safety in the battlefield. Where it have been shown that Tsuru would be one of the top VA's? Because she were Sengokus direct subordinates doesnt make her strong; it is more likely about her intelligence and experience why she were sitting in that conference table back in mariejois.
You also ignored big parts of my post; for example Doflamingo's achviements in the war and his attitude when he is fighting against enemies, even if they are strong.
I also did not imply that Vice Admirals would be pushovers.
Also, which characters do you admit as top tiers?
If looking one piece world at overall, Crocodile, Moria and VA:s are top tiers for sure. If you look something like Top 3 strongest fighters, then for example Hancock wont do. It depends how wide your scale is.And 340,000,000 is NOT fodder bounty. it is still second high bounty seen so far. Luffys bounty rise all the time because he keeps doing things which are very unusual, like raiding enies lobby, declaring war against government (or so they thought), defeating shichibukai etc..
Man, if you really tell that Dofla is not Top tier, you could as well imply that Dragon is not strong because we havent seen him doing anything yet.
Caven-bitch
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Just to interject real quick, Crocodile and Moria are in no way shape or from top tiers in any legit scale.
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I i recall, Tsuru was called Strategist. Also, other marine officers were worried about her safety in the battlefield. Where it have been shown that Tsuru would be one of the top VA's? Because she were Sengokus direct subordinates doesnt make her strong; it is more likely about her intelligence and experience why she were sitting in that conference table back in mariejois.
You also ignored big parts of my post; for example Doflamingo's achviements in the war and his attitude when he is fighting against enemies, even if they are strong.
I also did not imply that Vice Admirals would be pushovers.
Also, which characters do you admit as top tiers?
If looking one piece world at overall, Crocodile, Moria and VA:s are top tiers for sure. If you look something like Top 3 strongest fighters, then for example Hancock wont do. It depends how wide your scale is.And 340,000,000 is NOT fodder bounty. it is still second high bounty seen so far. Luffys bounty rise all the time because he keeps doing things which are very unusual, like raiding enies lobby, declaring war against government (or so they thought), defeating shichibukai etc..
Man, if you really tell that Dofla is not Top tier, you could as well imply that Dragon is not strong because we havent seen him doing anything yet.
**She is a strategist, but it's not like that matters since even a strategist can be very strong. Marines being worried for her health doesn't mean she is weaker, it just means they respect her. Even if my mom, aunt etc was super woman I'd still be worried for them if they went into a war.
None of his achievements in the war prove he is a top-tier.
Crocodile, Moria and the VAs are not top-tiers. In fact, Croc and Moria were absolute fodder to the top-tiers. Top-tiers are people like Shanks, Garp, Roger, Whitebeard, Mihawk Aokiji, Kizaru, Ben Beckman etc.
Sorry, but to the top-tiers a 340 million bounty is absolutely nothing. A 340 million bounty is in league with the likes of the stronger Supernova preskip, and any top-tier would have been able to defeat anyone of that level of strength in their sleep. It being the second highest bounty to date doesn't mean it's impressive on a top-tier scale, it just means we haven't sen the higher bounties yet.
Doflamingo doesn't have anywhere near the amount of hype Dragon does. Bad example.**
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**She is a strategist, but it's not like that matters since even a strategist can be very strong. Marines being worried for her health doesn't mean she is weaker, it just means they respect her. Even if my mom, aunt etc was super woman I'd still be worried for them if they went into a war.
None of his achievements in the war prove he is a top-tier.
Crocodile, Moria and the VAs are not top-tiers. In fact, Croc and Moria were absolute fodder to the top-tiers. Top-tiers are people like Shanks, Garp, Roger, Whitebeard, Mihawk Aokiji, Kizaru, Ben Beckman etc.
Sorry, but to the top-tiers a 340 million bounty is absolutely nothing. A 340 million bounty is in league with the likes of the stronger Supernova preskip, and any top-tier would have been able to defeat anyone of that level of strength in their sleep. It being the second highest bounty to date doesn't mean it's impressive on a top-tier scale, it just means we haven't sen the higher bounties yet.
Doflamingo doesn't have anywhere near the amount of hype Dragon does. Bad example.**
Ok, i got it now what you meant with top tiers. Lets not mess bounties to this once i understood which kind of characters you aimed. Yes, i agree. Bounties in that gategory doesnt mean a shit, i think that we wont even see much bigger bounties anymore cause maybe those top tiers strength are not even indicated by bounties.
Still i think that Don would fit somewhere over there.
One simple reason is that we havent seen him opposing strawhats yet, and it is quite clear that we will at some point.
It would be VERY anti-climatic if Luffy etc. would just find one piece and manga would end and leave Dofla grinning on the backstage forever. So most likely they will fight.
Dont you agree also that if Dofla would be equall to VA:s it would be very anti-climatic too, because luffy & co. would surely beat an VA at this point (post-timeskip SH:s running for their lives when chased by Tsuru would look hilarious, you cant disagree.) So it could be assumed that SH:s will have very hard time against Dofla. Also, Oda has hyped Dofla very much the whole time, his real powers and agenda are left secrets on purpose, so he would reveal something much more in the future when he really meets SH:s
Also, looking at how much government respects dofla (letting him to do his own clearly illegal businesses, showing a fear when he warns that he could quit from shichibukai etc.) he looks like a top tier.
Surely this aspect will be revealed soon.
Also, I dont agree straightly that Dragon have been hyped very much more than Dofla. For me they both are those much hyped uber strong characters. (No, not saying they are equals.) Where is that so clear difference in their Hype? is it just your own opinion or what?
Also, Dofla's actions in war proved much.
Joz was 2. Division commander of WB, and i think that the top commanders are not very much weaker than admirals. At least they are stronger than VA:s. For example, Aokiji vs. Joz looked very equal battle for me, Joz just made the critical mistake in the wrong moment. Same with Marco vs. Kizaru. Or Ace and Aokiji. Or Vista & Mihawk. Not sure what the outcome would have been in the long run, but i think that most of those fights lasted a bit too long to be just about good luck of WB pirates. And Joz and Marco lost those battles so sudden just because they saw that Akainu was beating the shit out of their Pops/Leader Also, there is no reason to imply that Shank's crew would be much stronger than WB:s. So it makes no sense to automatically imply that Ben Beckman would be Top tier. He is just Shanks 1. henchmen equal to WB:s Marco. (Maybe he is stronger, but this is the basic idea.)Back to Joz vs. flamingo. Do you really think that Joz wouldn't have been done for in the instant moment Dofla would have wanted to? He would have been severed just like Oars Jr, and with about same effort.
And last, for Tsuru. I still think that the officers were really worried about her survival in the war at her current age and strenght. Your example for Mom/Aunt was bad, because in those cases you would worry because your bond to them, not becayse of respect. Also, that scenario was shown with Tsuru only to show that even woman in her age and state must stand and figth against WB and that running wont do.
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DD has been a shichibukai for a while now. His 340 million bounty is an innaccurate indicator of his current strength and threat level. Assuming that he became a shichibukai when he was a rookie, he must have been especially exceptional to get that high of a bounty. All we have seen Tsuru accomplish so far is turning fodder pirates into laundry. She probably got the VA position because of her seniority.
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I see the Real threat from Doflamingo being the whole "He's a Sociopath" thing, that coupled with the whole New Age stuff he's preaching leads me to believe there will be an entire arc devoted to him.
his pre-shishibukai bounty isn't an indicator of his current strenght either.. for all we know he could have gotten that bounty after one campaign like Hancock.. But one thing is for sure. he is extremely dangerous.
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**Shanks blocked one of Akainu's attacks, after that Akainu proceeded to call Shanks a son of a bitch and commanded his fellow Marines to get Dragon's son.
As opposed to Tsuru calling Doflamingo a good boy etc, she didn't even lift a finger.
Te biggest difference is that we know Tsuru isn't some Admiral level monster, although she is no doubt strong, where as Shanks is.**
FACT: We haven't seen how strong are both Tsuru and Don.
This disscussion is so beyond pointless.
naruto was WAY MORE KICKASS after the timeskip
i mean to show his badassness, him and sakura managed to get the bell from kakashi. beating pacifista's is so lame compared to that awesomeness
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FACT: We haven't seen how strong are both Tsuru and Don.
This disscussion is so beyond pointless.
Are you trying to be funny? This is a discussion forum genius, we discuss things here.
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My god, this tier shit is so pointless.
I'm out.
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@Mr.:
All we have seen Tsuru accomplish so far is turning fodder pirates into laundry. She probably got the VA position because of her seniority.
Well I do think Doflamingo is stronger than Tsuru, you shouldn't underestimate her. She most likely fought some pretty strong people during the war, and she came out unscathed at the end. She is also a confirmed haki user.
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@Dan:
I hope you understand why people won't take you seriously while making claims like these.
You have literally no clue how this fight would have actually played out, and if you claim otherwise, it's just plain hubris fueled nonsense.
You act as if whats being discussed here is Moria vs Curiel where we don't know shit.
That isn't the case here. We know that they had initially began to fight on equal grounds, and we know that one had started to begin to pant and lose stamina, and he would keep losing stamina as the fight had progressed.
