Oda has stated that he gives permission to Toei to do stuff, I doubt he would let Toei go 180 degrees away from where he's going
454: "The Crew's Whereabouts - Giant Bird Chicks and a Pink Showdown"
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Yeah he gives them permission but that doesn't necessarily mean that they follow manga canon. Zoro cutting steel in the Apis arc or Chopper having no problems with several Rumble Balls in a row during the DBF come to my mind.
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Yeah he gives them permission, doesn't mean that it follows manga canon though. Zoro cutting steel in the Apis arc or Chopper having no problems with several Rumble Balls in a row during the DBF come to my mind.
Yeah, exactly, also the newspaper part, those are the minor plot holes, the ones that are there because they are minor details that Oda/Toei probably doesn't mention in their "reunion"
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I swear, like 3/4th of this site must be homophobic.
Yeah this. Or they're just too young to form their own opinions not based directly on their parents ****ed-up values.
To all the people saying Sanji is simply playing along, why would his internal monologue be saying "Nami and Robin- let's just be good friends!" It could be a "magic spell" but honestly… I hope Sanji is permanently the most flamboyantly gay okama and that he stays that way forever. If only to see the rage that would ensue and to see if the homophobes would actually drop OP because of it.
Of course that won't happen though. Japan isn't the most progressive of places either, and although Oda certainly pushes the limits sometimes, I'm pretty sure SJ/Toei are not willing to risk sales dropping over a transgender character (that is, transgender if Sanji meets Iva).
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Sanji turning into an Okama out of nowhere IS NOT a Deus-Ex Machina
A Deus-Ex Machina is when out of nowhere, for no reason and unrelated to the manga, something happens to finish the story.
If Buggy appeared and was revealed to have a magic eye that was actually the One Piece, it wouldn't be a Deus Ex Machina
If there's a sudden light and Luffy is the Pirate King for no reason (nothing is ever explained), that would be a Deus-Ex Machina
First of all, I was not referring to Sanji turning into an okama - I was referring to the technique. I will, however, concede that it isn't a deus ex machina. Either way it's poor plot development - both are lazy ways of moving a story along. If Oda decided he wanted to make Sanji an okama PERMANENTLY there are better ways he could have done it - having Caroline cast a spell on Sanji is lazy writing (provided this is PERMANENT - assuming most of us are right and Sanji will change back after Ivankov has a fit/he sees Robin or Nami or Boa or maybe even girl Ivankov or girl Inazuma, etc. then it's fine). Magic spells =/= good character development. If a character needs to do a 180 there needs to be something better than "someone says 'bippity boppity boo', voila". Look at A Christmas Carol. Scrooge changed overnight as a result of the things the spirits showed him and forced him to come to terms with his greed. They didn't say some magic words and suddenly have Scrooge throwing money at poor people - people don't learn that way.
Caroline took advantage of a situation that probably would have gotten most people upset (i.e. the panties thing) and then, mostly likely used some sort of hypnosis or whatever to turn him into an okama. If this is permanent, this is bad character development. If he reverts back he will probably take some kind of lesson with him - even if it's about not underestimating his opponents just because he perceives them as looking weak this is progress. No Sanji, just because someone is wearing a dress - man or woman - doesn't mean they aren't capable of handing you your ass on a golden platter.
Additionally, I want to make one thing clear: I am NOT homophobic.
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@CCC:
Yeah this. Or they're just too young to form their own opinions not based directly on their parents ****ed-up values.
To all the people saying Sanji is simply playing along, why would his internal monologue be saying "Nami and Robin- let's just be good friends!" It could be a "magic spell" but honestly… I hope Sanji is permanently the most flamboyantly gay okama and that he stays that way forever. If only to see the rage that would ensue and to see if the homophobes would actually drop OP because of it.
I lol'd at this. Somebody's holding a grudge.
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lol, yeah, that was a great over reaction, but he's right
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lol, yeah, that was a great over reaction, but he's right
True, some people don't have the ability to form their own opinions. But there are those who can and still see the whole issue as disturbing.
I would like to ask again, though: when will people figure out that Sanji is acting like an okama and not like a homosexual?
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I would like to ask again, though: when will people figure out that Sanji is acting like an okama and not like a homosexual?
Perhaps the same day when people figure out that the term Okama is not a magical word to describe something 100% different from the term gay.
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Perhaps the same day when people figure out that the term Okama is not a magical word to describe something 100% different from the term gay.
I'm sure they go hand-in-hand in some cases, but I don't think that's the case with Sanji.
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I lol'd at this. Somebody's holding a grudge.
XD
Have you read this thread?
A grudge would be if I was still complaining about the haters a week from now. I'm just responding to a disgusting display of hate.
You say the issue is "disturbing." If Sanji is really gay (which would account for his overcompensating behavior throughout the entire series so far) then there's nothing distubring about being pushed out of the closet.
If he's just been hypnotized and controlled into behaving in a certain way against his will (and if Iva changes his gender without his consent), then that's disturbing. -
@CCC:
XD
Have you read this thread?
A grudge would be if I was still complaining about the haters a week from now. I'm just responding.You say the issue is "disturbing." If Sanji is really gay (which would account for his overcompensating behavior throughout the entire series so far) then there's nothing distubring about being pushed out of the closet.
If he's just been hypnotized and controlled into behaving in a certain way against his will (and if Iva changes his gender without his consent), then that's disturbing.I was talking about the "I want the homophobes to suffer" bit.
I think it's the latter. I doubt all those times where he was lusting after Nami and Robin and a majority of the other attractive women in the series were merely acts or a ploy to hide his inner fag. If it was the case and Sanji was dealing with struggles with his sexual orientation, Oda would have surely addressed it by now. It would be bad story-wise for something so character-changing to just come out of the blue after all this time. So it's my opinion that this is all against his will. Remember, up until the last second, he was like, "NO! I'M TURNING INTO ONE OF THEM!!"
And I'd like to point out that from what I've seen, Sanji is apparantly one of the most homophobic characters in One Piece. :silly:
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Lmao @ this thread's LOL HOMOPHOBIA
Seriosuly… weren't you guys not even a couple of weeks ago clamoring how awesome Bon Clay is (the biggest queer outside of Ivankov in One Piece) and not only that in the character tournament Bon Clay fucking is wiping the floor with Yasopp.
So Sanji is a POTENTIAL crossdresser (which is not gay by definition btw)... and I say potential since we don't know if he's under some haki/devil fruit/something else effect from the Sub Okama Queen, and ya'll blow a lid?
Seriously... the hell is wrong with ya'll?
And like some have mentioned... Sanji NEEDS this.
This will train him to be physically stronger (since these Okamas are fucking super human)
This will enable him to FINALLY be able to fight female fighters (which he needs to do since Nami and Robin aren't exactly top tier and I DOUBT the New World is nothing but a sauage fest of strenght).
There's also the possibility that if Sanji decides to he could ask Ivankov to turn him into a woman... and still like Robin and Nami, for quadruple lulz.
And we'd finally have a STRONG female character in Shonen... which honestly is fucking rare.
Again... ya'll need to chill :V
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I was talking about the "I want the homophobes to suffer" bit.
Yes.
Yes I do.
They need to grow up and join the 21st century. -
Shame when people think others are homophobe if we critisize something gay-ish that we dont think its right, guys dont critisize a person from another color that isnt the same as yours or you will be called racist…watch out.
Yeah SHRican the homophobe accusations have no logic since people love Ivankov and Bon Kurei so yeah it was a rant with no logic...
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@CCC:
Yes.
Yes I do.
They need to grow up and join the 21st century.Aw, just because they find two men slobbering all over each other disgusting?
I'm not homophobic myself, but I find the concept of two men slobbering all over each other stomach-turning.
My friend, this is a world where there is always going to be people with different ideals and opinions. That doesn't make them bad people, it just makes them different. Wishing evil on somebody because they have a different opinion is just silly and makes the opposing side look rather silly as well.
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Aw, just because they find two men slobbering all over each other disgusting?
I'm not homophobic myself, but I find the concept of two men slobbering all over each other stomach-turning.
I think that counts as homophobic nowadays :ninja:
This thread might get closed
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Aw, just because they find two men slobbering all over each other disgusting?
I'm not homophobic myself, but I find the concept of two men slobbering all over each other stomach-turning.
I see no difference in the level of grossness between two men "slobbering" all over each other or a man and a woman doing it. Do you?
Both are unpleasant to imagine/look at. -
@CCC:
I see no difference in the level of grossness between two men "slobbering" all over each other or a man and a woman doing it. Do you?
Both are unpleasant to imagine/look at.I agree. Slobber in general is gross.
I think that counts as homophobic nowadays :ninja:
This thread might get closed
I thought the definition of homophobe was somebody with an irrational fear or hatred towards homosexuals.
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@CCC:
I see no difference in the level of grossness between two men "slobbering" all over each other or a man and a woman doing it. Do you?
Both are unpleasant to imagine/look at.But then how does masturbation work?
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CCC he says that because he can find the women attractive and the man not its pretty obvious, but yeah if im in a line in the supermarket for example and i have a couple being the couple Hetero or Homo kissing in my face its a little annoying and disrespectfull since it would make you feel awkard but it is more painfull to see two man because we dont feel atracted to it.
And yeah i think the word homophobe is dumb since a phobia is fearing something, an Homophobe for my understanding doesnt accept it wich is diferent from fearing it XD.
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I agree. Slobber in general is gross.
I thought the definition of homophobe was somebody with an irrational fear or hatred towards homosexuals.
Disgust can be considered another kind of hate
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But then how does masturbation work?
Just don't do it?
Disgust can be considered another kind of hate
To some people, I'm sure. And there are some people who think that BP cares about the environment.
People are entitled to feel how they want to feel. The beauty of human nature is that we have free will to have our own opinions. Granted, we don't have to 100% agree with other's opinions just because.
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Yeah its bad for the eyes, kakakaka.
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CCC he says that because he can find the women attractive and the man not its pretty obvious, but yeah if im in a line in the supermarket for example and i have a couple being the couple Hetero or Homo kissing in my face its a little annoying and disrespectfull since it would make you feel awkard but it is more painfull to see two man because we dont feel atracted to it.
Then I guess we differ there? I don't somehow approve of PDA more just because one of the two involved is attractive to me. That seems almost superficial.
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Disgust can be considered another kind of hate
…In what language? If I think Snow Cones are disgusting, that doesn't mean I hate them.
"Disgust" is defined as "marked aversion aroused by something highly distasteful". In other words, something you would want to avoid because it makes you uncomfortable. Just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean you hate it.Although some may hate the things they disgust, they don't always disgust the things they hate.They aren't always synonymous.
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I dont aprove either like i said in the other post but since i cant understand how a man can love a man(i cant because i dont find it attractive) it is diferent and im not talking about personality wise since i dont know who the hell those people are and thats part of the atractivness of a person to me so yeah…
Warning: i cant understand but i accept and have no problem at all with them lol i actually know two lesbians couples and i have no problem with it, i dont know any guy guys but i wouldnt have a problem either.
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There's also the possibility that if Sanji decides to he could ask Ivankov to turn him into a woman… and still like Robin and Nami, for quadruple lulz.
And we'd finally have a STRONG female character in Shonen... which honestly is fucking rare.
While this would be the most amusing outcome, I think it would be to much of a jerk move to the guys who voice Sanji: 10+ years of voicing a character and than BLAM! You're out of a job.
And I don't think it counts if the strong female character was originally a strong male character.
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You mean like last weeks episode where Toei by themselves created this Mr. Frank figure that clearly never existed in Oda's version of Franky's coverstory. I'm talking about the episode where it was thanks to the kid that Mr. Frank ran into the animals while in the cover story it was Franky who was chased by them all by himself in case you wonder. Yeah, Toei won't do anything that will contradict the manga. :getlost:
But what parts of the "Mr. Frank" scenario contradict what has happened in the manga?
He was still chased by those animals and he still ended up at Vegapunk's Lab.
I doubt Franky being "Mr. Frank" during the first half of this (He reverted to Franky by the time they got to Vegapunk's) will change ANYTHING from the Manga canon. In fact, Franky turning back by the time they got to the Lab was probably done for that explicit reason.
"Oh, you made him Mr. Frank instead of Franky for that scene, now the whole story just doesn't work anymore"
Yeah he gives them permission but that doesn't necessarily mean that they follow manga canon. Zoro cutting steel in the Apis arc or Chopper having no problems with several Rumble Balls in a row during the DBF come to my mind.
Yeah, but those incidents were things that Toei screwed up WAY in advance. Zoro cutting steel happened Several arcs before Alabasta, and The Rumble Balls happened before Water 7, when Monster Chopper happened in Later Enies Lobby.
And you know what, Oda PROBABLY signed off on them, because he probably didn't have that far ahead planned out at the time.I GUARANTEE you, Oda knew where he was gonna go in the end with the Straw Hat Separation right when he was first drawing the chapter where Kuma separated them. Its asinine to think that Oda doesn't already have a plan, and I know everyone loves to Hate Filler and pretend Oda had nothing to do with any of it, but he's usually involved in every single filler arc, even if it's just a small amount. It's Moronic to think that Oda would just let Toei run amok on this, because if so, they could EASILY screw up BAD.
Also, for all the homophobes in the therad:
Why are you equating "Transvestite" with "Gay"?If The whole "Sanji ends up Transgendered and is changed by Iva with Female Hormones" thing comes to pass like I hope it would (Which I also realize is EXTREMELY Unlikely) I see the scenario being that Sanji doesn't change at all an we end up with a Strong, Sexy, Lesbian Sanji.
While this would be the most amusing outcome, I think it would be to much of a jerk move to the guys who voice Sanji: 10+ years of voicing a character and than BLAM! You're out of a job.
And I don't think it counts if the strong female character was originally a strong male character.
Iva kept his voice when he went woman.
Also, it'd be more realistic to keep Hirata as Sanji. IRL, Transgendered people usually look great after all is said and done, but the hormones can't change their voices, and they have to work at it. -
But what parts of the "Mr. Frank" scenario contradict what has happened in the manga?
He was still chased by those animals and he still ended up at Vegapunk's Lab.
I doubt Franky being "Mr. Frank" during the first half of this (He reverted to Franky by the time they got to Vegapunk's) will change ANYTHING from the Manga canon. In fact, Franky turning back by the time they got to the Lab was probably done for that explicit reason.
"Oh, you made him Mr. Frank instead of Franky for that scene, now the whole story just doesn't work anymore"
The clothes, the kid, the dog, him beating the animals and running to actually save the kid, not running for his life like the manga shows
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Also, for all the homophobes in the therad:
Why are you equating "Transvestite" with "Gay"?If The whole "Sanji ends up Transgendered and is changed by Iva with Female Hormones" thing comes to pass like I hope it would (Which I also realize is EXTREMELY Unlikely) I see the scenario being that Sanji doesn't change at all an we end up with a Strong, Sexy, Lesbian Sanji.
You know I really hope that happens, too.
But I must say that what makes people think he has gone gay is what his inner monologue said (referring to Nami and Robin) at the end of the episode: "I hope that someday we'll become good friends." as opposed to you know actually being with them romantically.
Iva kept his voice when he went woman.
Also, it'd be more realistic to keep Hirata as Sanji. IRL, Transgendered people usually look great after all is said and done, but the hormones can't change their voices, and they have to work at it.It seems that Ivankov is an exception. Didn't the first guy that we saw him change get a female voice?
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Sanji's voice actor is my fav after Luffy's! Plus, Oda is a good story writer so something like this wont happen. Sanji all of a sudden becoming an Okama without prior signs and agaisnt his will and character just isnt Oda-like. Yea Usopp is brave as Sogeking but Usopp had always shown signs of the potential to be brave ever since the first season… so it was expected (being his goal and all).
Im not homophobic, I just love Sanji the way he is right now. I wouldnt mind him developing but putting his character through a 180 change is also a slap to Sanji fans who loved his cool manly attitude and put up with his flirtatious mood swings and grew to love it.
If im homophobic for loving a character and would feel betrayed by the writer if something like this were to happen without it being so sudden or forced, then go ahead call me one...
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Are there any screenshots of the episode anywhere?
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The clothes, the kid, the dog, him beating the animals and running to actually save the kid, not running for his life like the manga shows
Ok, yes, those things were all added to the scenario.
But he still ends up himself, and he still ends up at Vegapunk's Lab, just like in the Manga.
I'd be willing to bet money that Oda told Toei everything, and that NOTHING they did here will contradict what is coming for Franky in the Manga.
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Moria has something against a gay couple dry humping and a hetero couple dry humping in front of him, but he loves some hot and good looking lesbians.
Weird.
[hide][/hide]
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While this would be the most amusing outcome, I think it would be to much of a jerk move to the guys who voice Sanji: 10+ years of voicing a character and than BLAM! You're out of a job.
And I don't think it counts if the strong female character was originally a strong male character.
Who said Sanji's new female form needs to have an actual female voice?
The lulz of the current voice actor tryng to sound feminine is 1000 times funnier.
:V
Also… it's shonen.
The rule of "was" don't apply much.
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wtf? why did they do something to sanji? -.-°
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my eyes burn from the sadness this better get fixed and fast
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There's no way in hell that Oda would permanently make Sanji into an okama, for the simple reason that the fangirls would RIOT.
Making him gay, sure. Then they could squee over the prospect of him hitting on Zoro instead of Nami and Robin. But a creepy-looking crossdresser? No way in hell.
I also laugh at those who claim that everyone against the idea of the previously (kinda)suave wannabe ladies' man Sanji spontaneously turning into OKAMA WAAAAY is homophobic.
Moria has something against a gay couple dry humping and a hetero couple dry humping in front of him, but he loves some hot and good looking lesbians.
Weird.
[hide][qimg]http://i44.tinypic.com/2nitzr4.png[/qimg][/hide]
Methinks he's simply against the idea of a man being involved at all.
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There's no way in hell that Oda would permanently make Sanji into an okama, for the simple reason that the fangirls would RIOT.
Really? Because so far it looks like it's the guys that are rioting.
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They simply have more patience, you see.
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! Well, I don't see the flashback going on too much longer so hopefully the reunion is around the corner. Whatever ends up happening we'll probably see soon, provided Oda doesn't take a bunch of breaks or sends Luffy on another solo mission.
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LOLLLL Me being a fangirl is a one of the kind. The type that will tell other fangirls to riot for her. :P
Ohh they're coming… you better watch out Oda :P! ^^QFT However it seems like Sanji may be one of the first or last to join Luffy since he has to befriend Ivan first. But, I think that Sanji will meet Luffy just as he leaves AL on Sea (since Sanji will know Luffy's exact location unlike the others). However, it really depends on how much "suspense" Oda wants to add to the "what the hell will happen to Sanji-Kun!!!!!!11111!!!ONE!" So we could only wait…
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I also laugh at those who claim that everyone against the idea of the previously (kinda)suave wannabe ladies' man Sanji spontaneously turning into OKAMA WAAAAY is homophobic.
For the record, I wasn't lashing out against people who don't like it as a plot point/character development. Just the people who use words like "evil" and "disgusting" when talking about homosexuals.
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@Dixxy:
! Well, I don't see the flashback going on too much longer so hopefully the reunion is around the corner. Whatever ends up happening we'll probably see soon, provided Oda doesn't take a bunch of breaks or sends Luffy on another solo mission.
! Apparently there's already another break coming up after this next chapter. T_T
@CCC:
For the record, I wasn't lashing out against people who don't like it as a plot point/character development. Just the people who use words like "evil" and "disgusting" when talking about homosexuals.
Those people need to take a look at themselves.
…Just saying. :happy:
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! Apparently there's already another break coming up after this next chapter. T_T
! …..:blink:.......
...:wassat:
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...:sad:
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
! :getlost: Piss offI hope I dont get into trouble for that ^^ :S
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See my problem with Sanji in a dress on the island of queers isn't homosexuality or thinking it's disgusting, infact I think that anyone that does needs to shove it, cause I bet it's double standard because I'm sure the like Iva or Bon-clay.
I just don't like it as a plot point because Sanji was the super suave, idiot savant, LADIES MAN.
I just can't see him hitting on Nami in a dress.
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I find it pretty amusing that some people seems to really see this thing with Sanji as some definitive, serious business shit and not as the pure one-time joke that it is.
Come on, Oda didn't go nuts. This is a comedy series at heart.Anyway, what's with japanese fangirls and straight men crossdressing lately? I'm seeing that a lot, especially in live action stuff..
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! Apparently there's already another break coming up after this next chapter. T_T
! Aw man, really? And considering next week is PROBABLY another flashback chapter . . . meh