I sense a lack of taste.
i sense a pointless picture that has been overplayed.
lets take taht picture for example. "i don't care about roger" is basically what he is saying right.
ok, please enlighten me. why should he?
Chapter 583 "Final Destination of Uncertainty (The Gray Terminal)" Discussion
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i sense a pointless picture that has been overplayed.
lets take taht picture for example. "i don't care about roger" is basically what he is saying right.
ok, please enlighten me. why should he?
Perhaps because it is thanks to Roger that he is alive? If Roger wouldn't had asked Garp to protect Ace, Rogue and Ace would have been killed. If he owes his mother a favor then he does the same to his dad.
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Most 10 year olds would try to get rid of an annoying 7 year old. That sthe normal 10 year old part.
True, but knocking him over a cliff and not letting anybody know what happened to him after he has been missing for a week is not normal.
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True, but knocking him over a cliff and not letting anybody know what happened to him after he has been missing for a week is not normal.
I'd say it's borderline psychotic.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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You know, I am still a little intrigued at why Ace refers to this incident as "The Sabo Incident". I would think it would be more the "Bluejam Pirates incident". It's almost like some type of foreshadowing that Sabo is going to do something such as betray them or something will happen to him.
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You know, I am still a little intrigued at why Ace refers to this incident as "The Sabo Incident". I would think it would be more the "Bluejam Pirates incident". It's almost like some type of foreshadowing that Sabo is going to do something such as betray them or something will happen to him.
Some translations used "the Sabo thing". I think Ace was refering to his deal with Sabo.
"If not for the thing with Sabo and for having a little brother like you, Luffy, I would not want to live".
In other words, what allowed Ace to live these years before Luffy was the dream of becoming a pirate with Sabo.
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Perhaps because it is thanks to Roger that he is alive? If Roger wouldn't had asked Garp to protect Ace, Rogue and Ace would have been killed. If he owes his mother a favor then he does the same to his dad.
oh yep father of the year there. a criminal knocks up a girl and then turns himself in for execution, meanwhile asking someone to take care of his child.
i think i'm tearing up here. would make a great halmark film.
oh and thanks to this dad as well, your mother had to stay in hiding and not give birth to you for so long that she died in childbirth. gee thanks dad.
oh and because the government is f*ing retarded i am also a wanted baby as soon as i'm born and everyone in the world hates me. how about you watch fairy tail this week. erza say's it great "a flower can't choose wehere it blooms and a child can't chose the parents it was born to"
You ever seen a movie where the real dad shows up and then the kid just says "fuck you" to his loving foster parents and leaves them to go be with his loving dad who has been the best thing in his whole life.
No Ace shouldnt' give a shit about his father. This wasn't some heroic death or anything like in the new star trek movie. And also due to his father's name, Ace is also a wanted criminal for death for doing absolutely nothing but being born.
so there is no reason he shoudl care about his blood father. he found a real dad in whitebeard. end of story. why bring up his blood.
*and cue whine whine picture
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oh yep father of the year there. a criminal knocks up a girl and then turns himself in for execution, meanwhile asking someone to take care of his child.
He had a fatal illness. What was he supposed to do in your book? Live happily together with his wife and still die? Only that this time around the entire world would know who his wife and child are and that they would be killed the second Roger falls victim to his illness? Yeah, that's a much better way of protecting his child. :getlost:
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so if you were ace would you have professed your love for your true father Roger then at that moment on the scaffold?
whitebeard is Ace's father, who the real blood father is means jack shit. Its like if all of a sudden we find out blackbeard is luffy's real blood brother. should they just hug it out and become best buds. no, ace is luffy's real brother. blood means nothing
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so if you were ace would you have professed your love for your true father Roger then at that moment on the scaffold?
whitebeard is Ace's father, who the real blood father is means jack shit. Its like if all of a sudden we find out blackbeard is luffy's real blood brother. should they just hug it out and become best buds. no, ace is luffy's real brother. blood means nothing
That has absolutely nothing to do with it. The point is that he owes his father the exact same favor he claimed to owe to his mother. His mother protected him at the cost of her life. And Roger protected him by turning himself in to the Marines which also cost him his life in the end. So yeah, Roger pretty much did his child a favor and yet Ace whines around as if Roger was of no use to him, which is dead wrong.
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Perhaps because it is thanks to Roger that he is alive? If Roger wouldn't had asked Garp to protect Ace, Rogue and Ace would have been killed. If he owes his mother a favor then he does the same to his dad.
You forget that that "life" Roger gave him was a worthless one full of misery and pain until he met Luffy and Sabo. So I think Ace's a bit justified if he's a bit bitchy.
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@Thousand:
You forget that that "life" Roger gave him was a worthless one full of misery and pain until he met Luffy and Sabo. So I think Ace's a bit justified if he's a bit bitchy.
Not really, it's more like he allowed himself to believe the crap others talked about Roger that made him question the value of his own life. But his life itself didn't have a miserable value. Didn't Garp give him almost fatherly love as an infant before he had to Ace to Dadan? And all the good moments that came later on when he became brothers with Luffy, when he became captain of the Spade Pirates or a member of the Whitebeard Pirates are all part of the same life. No matter how much he wants to deny it but he was Rogers son even at the end. And as such he had good moments in life and bad moments in life.
The point I'm trying to make is that it is unfair and ignorant to blame only the bad things about his life on his father when the good things like being loved by Garp or becoming brothers with Luffy is all results of Rogers actions. If he can feel grateful for the favor his mother did him then he definitely has reasons to be grateful for the favor Roger did him too. And the lacking ability to acknowledge that is what makes him an emo.
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The reason Ace was emo is because people said to him that he shouldn't exist from the beginning.
Based on what I have read, the CP knew that Roger had a child not yet to be born, but knew not who the mother was. And the fact that Roger was going to die, as I suppose, only known to his crewmates and Rouge. What should a man do in this case? I came up with an idea: Roger entrusts Rouge to Rayleigh or whoever he can trust, secretly, then goes to a fucking place that no one knows, and dies, secretly (better die like Dr. Hiruluk, so that no one will find his corpse ). The Jolly Roger crew disappeared since they reached Raftel anyway, so no one will know that whether the PK is dead or not. He just simply disappears. And then Rouge gives birth to Ace. I thought it may solve the problem, but then I think, even if Roger did so, the WG, knowing that Roger was going to have a son in that island, would try to kill any to-be-mother in it, regardless Roger was there or not. And Rouge would have to carry Ace in her worm for 20 months anyway. So a Marine officer, a high ranking one, like Garp, is the only choice that Roger had, to entrust his wife, so that no one would doubt if Vice admiral Garp took a woman out of the island without being checked. And so to protect his wife and son, the dying Roger's only choice was : turning himself in. Or at least, I can't think of any better solution at the moment.
What went wrong is what Roger said before he died. If he didn't said anything, the era of Massive Piracy might not exist, and people might not hate Roger that much, and little Ace might not have to suffer such a hated life. Yeah, Dadan did claim that Ace is a hated child.
Or maybe Ace should blame that filler bartender in the anime who asked his dad about One Piece? LOL. jk
Ace did decide to be a pirate, but even if the Era didn't exist, I doubt that Ace wouldn't do the same. For he wanted freedom after all.
The problem is, why did Roger mention about One Piece, and open the era? If One Piece is just the truth about WG, then he just need to tell his crewmate to tell everyone or Dragon and then whatsoever plan they would do, I am not going to go detail. For we won't know what OP is until the next 10 years, let leave it aside temporarily. Let's just assume that Roger did have a good reason to mention One Piece, then did he know what he was going to say would create the era?
All this to say, I think the only nearly acceptable reason Ace could have to hate Roger is because he created the era and made people hate him. But Ace didn't try to find the reason why his dad decided to do it. Ace should know that Roger tried to protect his life, and should try to understand his dad. But he didn't, he just blame him for what he had to suffer in life, and deny his blood relationship with him.
Now let each to his own decide what kind of attitude we should have toward Ace.
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@The:
What went wrong is what Roger said before he died. If he didn't said anything, the era of Massive Piracy might not exist, and people might not hate Roger that much, and little Ace might not have to suffer such a hated life. Yeah, Dadan did claim that Ace is a hated child.
The only flaw I see in that logic is that Roger was executed for being the Pirate King and not for starting the Great Age of Pirates. The later was actually created as a consequence but his public execution was held because of what he did before in his life. Meaning that either way, his bloodline would have been labeled as accursed whether he would have spoken those infamous words or not. So I don't really see something going wrong here.
The problem is, why did Roger mention about One Piece, and open the era? If One Piece is just the truth about WG, then he just need to tell his crewmate to tell everyone or Dragon and then whatsoever plan they would do, I am not going to go detail. For we won't know what OP is until the next 10 years, let leave it aside temporarily. Let's just assume that Roger did have a good reason to mention One Piece, then did he know what he was going say would create the era?
Why he mentioned it? My guess is because he started something but due to his illness couldn't finish it. That's why I think he wanted inspire people with his words in hope that someone would finish what he started back then. Ever since Crocus' infamous words "perhaps this kid is the person we've been waiting for…what do you think...Roger?" this idea has been thrown around among the fandom. And with each little tidbit we find out about the D's or the Ancient Kingdom it supported a little bit more.
All this to say, I think the only acceptable reason Ace could have to hate Roger is because he created the era and made people hate him. But Ace didn't try to find the reason why his dad decided to do it. Ace should know that Roger tried to protect his life, and should try to understand his dad. But he didn't, he just blame him, and deny his blood relationship with him.
As I said in the first paragraph, Roger was the worst criminal long before he launched the Great Pirate Age. So it is really doubtful that his bloodline would have had it any better if he would have remained silent at the execution.
And as I said before, all those happy moments Ace had are also a part of his life as being the desendant of the Pirate King. Being protected and loved by Garp and having met Luffy are all consequences of Rogers doing. He definitely does not only have negative things to blame on Roger.
I'm not saying that Ace being bitter and angry is a silly and unthinkable move. No, his reaction is actually very plausible. But the point is that at some moment in his life he should have come to acknowledge that there definitely is things he should actually be grateful about to his real father. And going through this development is what would have been necessary for him to leave the spheres of being an emo. But he didn't.
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Ace's attitude is self inflicted.
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Review time:
! The cover page - Aohige, told me that this is a double pun, but I still can't help make Miss PiggyxAbsolem jokes. It also is a reference to Zombie Lola as well. If you think about it.
! Luffy living with a group of mountain bandits and Ace - I got to say Garp shows some stupidity in this idea. But reading/watching the whole series so far, gives me the feeling it worked but not as expected.
! Kid Ace's "Get Luffy Off My Back Strategy." - I got to say he is going all out with these. He really want Luffy off his back. I mean rolling a tree at him, sending him down valley, and feeding him to the animals. That's really cruel, Ace. Very cruel.
! Gray Terminal - It really does look like a landfill of doom. Also, I recognize the guy that Luffy's talking to from somewhere. He looks familiar. Naah, it can't be. And is that same guy wearing Zoro's belt. I guess we found the origin of that then.
! Sabo - His personality reminds of a schemer. Hope, he lives past chapter 585. :ninja:
! Sabo and Ace hesistating to kill Luffy - Ace. You rolled a tree on him, send him down a pit not caring that if he lived, and send him to go through mortal combat with gigantic animals. But, you choose now to hesistate on killing him. facepalm
! Porchemy of the BlueJams - He looks familar too. They could be related. Anyway, I find Porchemy to be a good villian of this little arc, but I hope what he's planning to do with Luffy doesn't be a reference to Berserk (nuff said). shuddersAnyway, good chapter. -
Sabo looks like the artful dodger.
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It is mentioned in Ace's flashback that people cursed Roger because there are too many pirates these days. Roger was the Pirate King, yes, but I don't think he caused many real damage to the citizens. What is Pirate King? That is the pirate who went to Raftel, the pirate who conquered the whole Grand Line. Why should people in the world hate him for that? And, if he had not said anything, the Marines's plan, which is to break the heart of all pirates in the world and show the WG's strength, might have succeeded, and so, pirates might not have been as many as today.
So, I doubt that people would have hated him the same if he had not said anything.
But the point is that at some moment in his life he should have come to acknowledge that there definitely is things he should actually be grateful about to his real father. And going through this development is what would have been necessary for him to leave the spheres of being an emo. But he didn't.
I think only until near the end of his life, he did realize the value of it, (which his father gave him) as he cried in the scaffold and felt happy, and he reclaimed that after he got magma fisted. Maybe a bit too late. Should we say that Ace was too slow? But Ace was a moron to begin with.
Dunno if Ace still denied Roger at that point. It was too late for him to let us know he did think that he indeed own his real dad (Roger) a great debt.
Now that is what I call a tragedy. -
Not really, it's more like he allowed himself to believe the crap others talked about Roger that made him question the value of his own life. But his life itself didn't have a miserable value. Didn't Garp give him almost fatherly love as an infant before he had to Ace to Dadan? And all the good moments that came later on when he became brothers with Luffy, when he became captain of the Spade Pirates or a member of the Whitebeard Pirates are all part of the same life. No matter how much he wants to deny it but he was Rogers son even at the end. And as such he had good moments in life and bad moments in life.
The point I'm trying to make is that it is unfair and ignorant to blame only the bad things about his life on his father when the good things like being loved by Garp or becoming brothers with Luffy is all results of Rogers actions. If he can feel grateful for the favor his mother did him then he definitely has reasons to be grateful for the favor Roger did him too. And the lacking ability to acknowledge that is what makes him an emo.
Just because there was some good stuff, it doesn't change the fact that most of Ace's childhood was utter crap compared to other people and it's all because of who his father is. So yeah he IS justified about hating him.
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No, it's because he took it upon himself to beat people up and become a pirate.
Nothing to do with roger, it's his own mentality.
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His mentality which was affected by people always going on about how he shouldn't have been born and how he's trash/son of the devil etc. which is Roger's fault which resulted in a very crappy childhood which is why he should get to hate his dad.
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@The:
It is mentioned in Ace's flashback that people cursed Roger because there are too many pirates these days. Roger was the Pirate King, yes, but I don't think he caused many real damage to the citizens. What is Pirate King? That is the pirate who went to Raftel, the pirate who conquered the whole Grand Line. Why should people in the world hate him for that? And, if he had not said anything, the Marines's plan, which is to break the heart of all pirates in the world and show the WG's strength, might have succeeded, and so, pirates might not have been as many as today.
So, I doubt that people would have hated him the same if he had not said anything.
Erm, the vast majority of the people believes in the WG propaganda. Everybody tends to believe that scholars that researched history were demons that aimed to destroy the world just because the WG says so. There should be little to zero doubts that the vast majority of the world would readily believe the WG's propaganda about Roger.
I think only until near the end of life of his life, he did realize the value of his life, (which his father gave him) as he cried in the scaffold and felt happy, and he reclaimed that after he got magma fisted. Maybe a bit too late. Should we say that Ace was too slow? But Ace was a moron to begin with.
Dunno if Ace still denied Roger at that point. It was too late for him to say to his dad that he own his dad a great debt.
Now that is what I call a tragedy.This is actually exactly the point why I found Ace's entire development very badly written. This entire miserable life thing wasn't brought up until the war. Up until then Ace appeared like the happy go luck type. That's why the entire "I value my life now" thing didn't really have the usual impact (or perhaps I should say flair) that other character's developments had in this series.
@Thousand:
Just because there was some good stuff, it doesn't change the fact that most of Ace's childhood was utter crap compared to other people and it's all because of who his father is. So yeah he IS justified about hating him.
As I said in my last post, being bitter and angry is definitely ok. But completely ignoring and denying the good things that happened to his life because of Roger until the very end is what makes him an emo.
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@Thousand:
His mentality which was affected by people always going on about how he shouldn't have been born and how he's trash/son of the devil etc. which is Roger's fault which resulted in a very crappy childhood which is why he should get to hate his dad.
But they didn't say it to him, he could easily have ignored it. He chose not to, and he chose those fights.
The only thing there's any issue with is where garp chose to leave him.
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As I said in my last post, being bitter and angry is definitely ok. But completely ignoring and denying the good things that happened to his life because of Roger until the very end is what makes him an emo.
And where did Ace do this? Just because good stuff happened to him doesn't mean he should forgive Roger for the bad stuff.. And how is bitching about your dad for a bit make you an emo ?
@Darkstorm:But they didn't say it to him, he could easily have ignored it. He chose not to, and he chose those fights.
They were talking crap about him. An eight year old boy was being told he didn't deserve to live. I can't really blame Ace for his retaliation nor his feelings about his father.
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@Thousand:
They were talking crap about him. An eight year old boy was being told he didn't deserve to live. I can't really blame Ace for his retaliation nor his feelings about his father.
I don't blame him for choosing to fight, that's fine. But those fights WERE of his choosing, he has nothing to blame his father for, except maybe leaving him with Garp.
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@Thousand:
And where did Ace do this? Just because good stuff happened to him doesn't mean he should forgive Roger for the bad stuff.. And how is bitching about your dad for a bit make you an emo ?
That's exactly the point, a great person forgives others for their mistakes. Ace didn't do that. What's more he even ignored and denied those things he should be grateful for until his very end while continuing to point fingers at Roger and whine about it. That's a classic standard definition of an emo.
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Out of curiosity, what did you expect from Dadan? I think Garp was a fool to leave his grandkids with Dadan but he would have been an even bigger fool to leave them with a very well known pirate or outlaw.
For a flashback, I thought this chapter was excellent. Of course it is very predictable in a sense that we know Oda is showing us the event that forged the bond between Ace and Luffy.
Based on this chapter alone, Ace is nothing like Sasuke. There wasn't any point in this chapter where he sulked, lashed out at the world and plotted the destruction of the world. Ace doesn't trust anyone (except Sabo) and he just met Luffy, so he couldn't afford to have Luffy following him and of course when Luffy finally managed to follow him, look what happened.
I guess I expected Dadan to be someone who was more important, him being famous or not would not really matter since she lived an isolated life, or I guess she could make a name for herself later on.
I guess having some special attribute, not even necessarily strength, would make her interesting, don't know for sure to be honest, but I do feel like she has been presented like every second generic "fodder" type of a villain…人事を尽くして天命を待つ
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Dunno if it was asked before but what makes us sure of the fact that we have a coverstory ? i mean there's usually a text in it no ? like where they are now, or the name of the coverstory. There isn't one here, so could it be that this is a simple cover like the one we had before with Shanks and Buggy ? If that's so i expect different characters to be seen from now on (Woopslap, Akainu, Hattori…etc)
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Dunno if it was asked before but what makes us sure of the fact that we have a coverstory ? i mean there's usually a text in it no ? like where they are now, or the name of the coverstory. There isn't one here, so could it be that this is a simple cover like the one we had before with Shanks and Buggy ? If that's so i expect different characters to be seen from now on (Woopslap, Akainu, Hattori…etc)
Absolutely nothing. Claiming that the first page is a title page story is dead wrong with the information we're having so far.
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As I said in my last post, being bitter and angry is definitely ok. But completely ignoring and denying the good things that happened to his life because of Roger until the very end is what makes him an emo.
I have to disagree.
As humans, we typically focus on all the bad that happens to us and not the good. Also, this is definitely tenfold when dealing with younger people.
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I guess I expected Dadan to be someone who was more important, him being famous or not would not really matter since she lived an isolated life, or I guess she could make a name for herself later on.
I guess having some special attribute, not even necessarily strength, would make her interesting, don't know for sure to be honest, but I do feel like she has been presented like every second generic "fodder" type of a villain…I agree, so far, she has definitely been a bit underwhelming for the person who 'raised' Ace and Luffy.
However, I think before this Arc concludes, she will become more interesting.
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I have to disagree.
As humans, we typically focus on all the bad that happens to us and not the good. Also, this is definitely tenfold when dealing with younger people.
These are words of great wisdom. I fully agree.
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I have to disagree.
As humans, we typically focus on all the bad that happens to us and not the good. Also, this is definitely tenfold when dealing with younger people.
That's true but humans are also able to acknowledge that they made a mistake. That's what you call growth. People who don't go through this development and continue to only blame others and deny their good sides until the very end are rightfully considered to be egocentric emos. In real life more than in fiction such people are considered to be miserable failures and pathetic whimps.
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That's true but humans are also able to acknowledge that they made a mistake. That's what is called growth. People who don't go through this development and continue only blame others and not see their good sides until the very end are rightfully considered to be egocentric emos.
I agree, but I just wouldn't expect a 10 year to have that level of maturity when in fact, most grown ups struggle with the concept of 'being' appreciative of the good things.
Also, we know Ace eventually grew up and started to focus on the good things, as oppose to being an angry adult.
I just don't think of Sasuke, when I see Ace's character. Sauske always cries, is very over the top, talks about destroying whole villages and annoyingly regurgitates the same old song about wanting get revenge on everybody.
I just don't see Ace as an emo.
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I agree, but I just wouldn't expect a 10 year to have that level of maturity when in fact, most grown ups struggle with the concept of 'being' appreciative of the good things.
Also, we know Ace eventually grew up and started to focus on the good things, as oppose to being an angry adult.
I just don't think of Sasuke, when I see Ace's character. Sauske always cries, is very over the top, talks about destroying whole villages and annoyingly regurgitates the same old song about wanting get revenge on everybody.
I just don't see Ace as an emo.
Oh, but I wasn't talking about kid Ace. I was talking about grown up Ace as we've seen him. Even when he died he was not a big enough man to acknowledge that his father didn't do him only bad (I've already elaborated on the favors in my previous posts so I'm not gonna repeat them here). But no, the last words we see him spoke of his father were words of denyal (sp?) so he definitely lacks the greatness of a character that has overcome the emo stage of blaming others for his misery.
That his dying message was the most pathetic one in all of One Piece only adds to this whole appearance.
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Oh, but I wasn't talking about kid Ace. I was talking about grown up Ace as we've seen him. Even when he died he was not a big enough man to acknowledge that his father didn't do him only bad (I've already elaborated on the favors in my previous posts so I'm not gonna repeat them here). But no, the last words we see him spoke of his father were words of denyal (sp?) so he definitely lacks the greatness of a character that has overcome the emo stage of blaming others for his misery.
That his dying message was the most pathetic one in all of One Piece only adds to this whole appearance.
His father was White Beard.
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Emo has no meaning anymore.
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i wonder if sabo is still alive or abandoned ace and never spoke to him again. luffy was a determined little kid wasn't he. getting chased by tigers being raised by bandits and having a brother that wanted to kill you. luffy is a good man
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Oh, but I wasn't talking about kid Ace. I was talking about grown up Ace as we've seen him. Even when he died he was not a big enough man to acknowledge that his father didn't do him only bad (I've already elaborated on the favors in my previous posts so I'm not gonna repeat them here). But no, the last words we see him spoke of his father were words of denyal (sp?) so he definitely lacks the greatness of a character that has overcome the emo stage of blaming others for his misery.
That his dying message was the most pathetic one in all of One Piece only adds to this whole appearance.
First of all, his father isn't just any ole dick. He was the Pirate King. The Pirate King was the most hated person in the world. People were saying they wanted to stick needles in Ace, burn him, and talked endless shit about him (though they didn't know of his existence, it was still about him) and you think there'd be no reaction to that? The first thing any child would do would be: get pissed and then ponder it. Like for instance, "Man… Everyone wants me dead. This sucks. I didn't do anything." They kept regurtiatating "Roger this" and "Roger that". So I'm sure he came to a conclusion after a while that, "Man... Maybe he really was just a dick. Maybe he wanted my ass to suffer. I mean, the asshole was dying anyway. There's no noble sacrafice there."
Then in present time, Ace is a twenty year old. He's matured in several areas but let's be real, you're not going to accumulate all your wisdom and growth by the age of 20. Here in America, you can't even freaking drink at the age of 20. Plus, we saw with Squardo that simply being Roger's son is enough to turn friends into enemies. That's how powerful a blood connection to Roger is. Imagine chilling with one of your boys one day, bringing up your father's name, and then him wanting to pound your face in. That's going to have an affect on your opinion. And it's not like Ace was constantly bitching and moaning that Roger is the source of all his problems (even though he should at least account for half of them), he just didn't want to hear about him. And I don't blame him. He claimed his father was Whitebeard and didn't want to hear about Roger. I don't think that's emo, I think that's natural.
Emos constantly bitch and complain and cry and shit over the same shit and never accomplish anything. They just keep bitching about it over and over again. Ace at least took a step forward and said, "I don't want to hear about him", kept it real by joining Whitebeard, enjoyed his life as much as he could, etc. Every time you see him, you don't see him crying or cutting himself. Hell, when he did cry it was tears of happiness. If they were sad tears, that would have been emo.
At least he spent his life trying to find an answer to whether or not he should have been born. That's more than I can say for the majority of emos I know. He was being pretty rational about it: travel around, gain some new experiences, and keep it real. That's better than what I can say for Sasuke.
Ace is an idiot, not an emo.
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Ace has had a rough childhood.
I completely agree with Ivotas on the fact that Ace owes some debt of gratitude to his blood father Roger, as it is true that Rogers sacrifice saved Ace and allowed him to have a "life"….it just wasn't an easy one.
Which brings us to why Ace is a troubled individual aka Bastard. He really wasn't raised by choice people...I wouldn't even consider Garp to be a choice parent for any kid...obviously since he threw Ace and Luffy to be raised by criminals and we see just how criminal they are with this chapter and Dandan telling Luffy that he is going to have to steal and murder and not to tell Garp about anything.
Ace seems to have spent his developing years around negative influence on top of being the son of a extremely hated man...an easy life waved "BYE! BYE!" to the little bastard a long time ago.
Although Ace SHOULD appreciate Roger...he doesn't/didn't.....oh well. Hope Luffy learns from his mistakes.
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lol at all the Ace is like Sasuke and Ace is an EMO posts. Please go reread the war arc. Ace had a difficult childhood because of him beeing the son of Roger, and he only heard people saying he should be dead. Damn, even his foster mother thinks he is the son of the devil, its normal he told Garp in that ocasion if he deserved to live, and it is also normal his behave as a young child since no one loved him except Garp, who is hardly ever with him. Mix this with his pride which made him pown everyone that laughed at him or his father, and you have the Ace we are seeing in the flashback.
BTW, a small thing out of contest, where was it sated that he HATES Roger? Show me that page please. All he said was that he didnt care about that half of his blood, which could just mean that he doesnt give a shit about beeing the PK son, unlike most people. But with him beeing mad at the people who hated Roger, and him chasing after Whitebeard, I think that he also was proud about his real father. It just happened that he found in Newgate a true father for him, and thats the reason because even if he is Rogers blood son he prefers to say that Newgate is his father since he was more a father for him than Roger, who he never met.
Back on topic, the 20 year old Ace is not like the one in the flashback, he is a happy-go-lucky guy who found what he wanted, people who trully loved him. You cant blame on him beacuse he cried when he was watching his crew and brother puting their lives in risk and even dying for him,, neither for trying to make them go away and stay safe, just like Robin did at Eneis Lobby when the strawhats came to rescue her. Apart of being sad and trying them to not put their lives in danger, he wasnt EMO or sad in the war, he even fighted smiling with Luffy and he even died smiling. And what he realized then is that his true dream, to have people wh loved him, was acomplished since a long time (With Luffy, his crew and a lot more of pirates). When he died, he told Luffy to thank everyone for making that possible and made his life worth.
I think that one of the things we are going to see in the flashback is taht, the moment where the punk semi-EMO kid Ace starts his friendship with Luffy and changes to the happy-go.lucky Ace. Also interested in this new pirates and in Sabo´s destiny, but it would be cool to see them in the present time. We will have to wait.
And of course, I liked the chapter xDD -
That's exactly the point, a great person forgives others for their mistakes. Ace didn't do that. What's more he even ignored and denied those things he should be grateful for until his very end while continuing to point fingers at Roger and whine about it. That's a classic standard definition of an emo.
Chiming in real quick here, but Ace's flashbacks at Marineford suggest that he initially was proud of Roger and his family history. Typical "my dad is stronger than your dad" behavior coming from a little kid, he gets angry at the responses people have to his questions or inquiries, which eventually lead to his being labeled an outcast, being hated, getting in fights, etc. The answers like, "if he had a son he'd be beheaded […] stabbed with a needle! […] burned at the stake!!" are pretty hateful comments for a kid to hear (about himself). The disconnection, lack of direct family, horrible living conditions with Dadan, and general hate towards his heritage and indirectly at himself for "being born" all seem like decent reasons for a kid like him to hate his life and the people around him. The blame for this would eventually come full circle to his "dad", since that is where all the hate stemmed from.
The only flaw I see in that logic is that […] his bloodline would have been labeled as accursed whether he would have spoken those infamous words or not. So I don't really see something going wrong here.
Not that big of a deal, but people did blame the current pirate era and all of its problems on Roger. So Roger's statement at the execution stand did make him more hate than he already was. After ~8 years or so Roger might have even become an old and forgotten memory had the Marines succeeded in their plan of using Roger as an example.
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Ace has a big problem with what the people say about his fathers. He died because of that one dimensional thinking.
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@Uncle:
First of all, his father isn't just any ole dick. He was the Pirate King. The Pirate King was the most hated person in the world. People were saying they wanted to stick needles in Ace, burn him, and talked endless shit about him (though behind his back, it was still about him) and you think there'd be no reaction to that? The first thing any child would do would be: get pissed and then ponder it. Like for instance, "Man… Everyone wants me dead. This sucks. I didn't do anything." They kept regurtiatating "Roger this" and "Roger that". So I'm sure he came to a conclusion after a while that, "Man... Maybe he really was just a dick. Maybe he wanted my ass to suffer. I mean, the asshole was dying anyway. There's no noble sacrafice there."
Then in present time, Ace is a twenty year old. He's matured in several areas but let's be real, you're not going to accumulate all the wisdom and growth by the age of 20. Here in America, you can't even freaking drink at the age of 20. Plus, we saw with Squardo that simply being Roger's son is enough to turn friends into enemies. That's how powerful a blood connection to Roger is. Imagine chilling with one of your boys one day, bringing up your father's name, and then him wanting to pound your face in. That's going to have an affect on your opinion. And it's not like Ace was constantly bitching and moaning that Roger is the source of all his problems (even though he should at least account for half of them), he just didn't want to hear about him. And I don't blame him. He claimed his father was Whitebeard and didn't want to hear about Roger. I don't think that's emo, I think that's pissy.
Emos constantly bitch and complain and cry and shit over the same shit and never accomplish anything. They just keep bitching about it over and over again. Ace at least took a step forward and said, "I don't want to hear about him", kept it real by joining Whitebeard, enjoyed his life as much as he could, etc. Every time you see him, you don't see him crying or cutting himself. Hell, when he did cry it was tears of happiness. If they were sad tears, that would have been emo.
At least he spent his life trying to find an answer to whether or not he should have been born. That's more than I can say for the majority of emos I know. He was being pretty rational about it: travel around, gain some new experiences, and keep it real. That's better than what I can say for Sasuke.
I'm fully aware of all that. But still at the end Ace failed to go through that development to acknowledge that after all Roger did do him a favor when he asked Garp to protect his child. As I said before, a great person forgives others their mistakes. And Roger did not only make mistakes.
And in the end, Ace wasn't man enough to acknowledge that his father did him a favor and took his egocentric complex to the grave with him. Is it a plausible human behaviour? Definitely. Is it what a great person is supposed to do? No. That's what makes him an emo wimp.
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His father was White Beard.
yea exactly, why does ace have to thank roger for his birth.
whitebeard was his father and he said his tearful goodbye to his family, which included his father whitebeard and brother luffy, neither blood related.
whats the point of him thanking roger? anyone can get a girl pregnant. sure roger did the best he could in his situation by giving his kid away in hopes he has better life. but so what, ace has his own family, why bring ghosts out of his past that had nothing to do with his life
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And thats why Oda chose to kill him first…to make an example outta him!
/sarcasm
Well he died because he wasn't that smart at the end getting baited by a stronger fighter despite his comrades telling him to run away. He completely erased from his mind what they've all been through to save him only to fight against obvious lies and terrible troll bait.
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Chiming in real quick here, but Ace's flashbacks at Marineford suggest that he initially was proud of Roger and his family history. Typical "my dad is stronger than your dad" behavior coming from a little kid, he gets angry at the responses people have to his questions or inquiries, which eventually lead to his being labeled an outcast, being hated, getting in fights, etc. The answers like, "if he had a son he'd be beheaded […] stabbed with a needle! […] burned at the stake!!" are pretty hateful comments for a kid to hear (about himself). The disconnection, lack of direct family, horrible living conditions with Dadan, and general hate towards his heritage and indirectly at himself for "being born" all seem like decent reasons for a kid like him to hate his life and the people around him. The blame for this would eventually come full circle to his "dad", since that is where all the hate stemmed from.
As I said previously, I'm aware with all that and I'm not denying these arguments. What I'm saying in situations like these great characters are made when they go through either the character development of forgiving others their mistakes or acknowledging that one was wrong himself. Either of the two would have been a motif that could have worked in Ace's scenario. But he neither acknowledged that his father didn't do him cause him harm nor did he forgive his father his sins (if he couldn't already acknowledge that he also did him a favor). His character is lacking a crucial moment of character development on that front until the very end. And if he takes this attitude to his grave then I definitely consider him to be an egocentric emo.
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Let me ask something completelyoff-topic…Are we goin' to have a chapter this week or this one was this week chapter?
